I am liking the Jug-Eared One's nimbleness. And increasingly, I think there's a good chance (please, please, please) that HRC will lose. It'll be interesting: both Obama and Edwards have free rider problems from the other as regards attacking HRC. Obama's been good, but I'm not sure Edwards isn't getting the major benefit.
1: Jug-ears? You're focusin on the wrong physical characteristics.
Can we wait maybe 15 more months before talking about this sort of thing? Or maybe never talk about it at all?
This is what I hate about primaries. I don't like HRC particularly, but whoever wins is going to need BC to give a nice rousing speech at the convention and do some stumping, and the stumping's power will be diluted by all this noise. Geffen shouldn't have said things quite so nastily--especially appropriating Repub critiques about lying---and HRC shouldn't have raised a stink. But Obama's response was good.
Can't we have Edwards-Obama or Obama-Edwards?
I think, aside from being politically ninja-like, is probably also true. This looks like the personal animosity of former friends.
I think *Obama's response*, that is.
I'm happy with any kind of pounding HRC gets. I trust her advisers not at all.
I'm presuming "cut" meant well-defined muscles, especially in the abdomen, not what Asilon et al. were talking about yesterday.
I'm not totally thrilled about the Lincoln Bedroom stuff coming up again, from our side, so early in the game.
I know that Obama has to do this, I know that it's red meat and a test of virility and all that crap, but jesus, it's only February. When is Vince Foster's corpse scheduled to reappear onstage?
Where are my pearls?
Yeah, it's really really early. It's one of those fun situations where it's probably in both of their interests to hold off for this time period but not in either of their interests to do so unilaterally.
I'm a little put off by the "oh, and also your friend is a racist" thing--both on the grounds that it ups the stakes in an ugly way and that it might backfire.
It's like the Obama campaign hired the writers from the good seasons of The West Wing!
12: Yeah, that was weird. David Geffen versus unknown South Carolina state senator?
8, sorry I think I missed your conversation with Asilon then. I've just been waiting for an opportunity to point out that link (although I'm sure some people had already seen it, around here).
16: I'm just trying to keep it light and chatty. The term is obvious enough, I think.
10: Yeah, I worry about this too. I mean, Obama's response was pretty sharp, but doesn't it link one of his major financial supporters to the Lincoln Bedroom scandals of the Clinton administration?
I'm not sure he wanted to go there.
I'm a little put off by the "oh, and also your friend is a racist" thing--both on the grounds that it ups the stakes in an ugly way and that it might backfire.
Wait...what? Ford's black, so I'm not sure the charge is racism. And while it would be nice if everyone played nice for a while, they aren't going to do so, and Obama's crew can't let them go around toming (or some variant of it) him. He more or less has to hit back; maybe he needs to be more oblique, maybe he needs to let a few shots go answered, but on the whole he has to hit back.
It wasn't a "your friend is a racist" response, it was about Ford and some other South Carolina rep a week or two ago coming out in favor of HRC (after much lobbying by several campaigns), and saying that though sure they'd love to support Obama, a black man would just sink the party. So more of a "you've got a lot of nerve complaining about what our supporters are saying" response.
doesn't it link one of his major financial supporters to the Lincoln Bedroom scandals
Meh, those were ginned up, as oppposed to real, scandals, and no one really cares what Geffen did in 1998--this is about not taking shit, which is important, because I expect the Clintons to run a massively dirty campaign--it's not going to be so charming when they do it to someone we like.
20: Racist, defeatist, whatever. My point is that dragging race into what's essentially a personal quibble is kinda crappy and probably unwise.
Meh, those were ginned up, as oppposed to real, scandals, and no one really cares what Geffen did in 1998--this is about not taking shit, which is important, because I expect the Clintons to run a massively dirty campaign--it's not going to be so charming when they do it to someone we like.
Agree, though I hope Obama's folk tell Geffen not to freelance, and to STFU if they aren't asking him to talk.
21: Okay, I'll accept your read on it, but that sure didn't come through to me. Then again, I'm not really the intended audience.
I agree that not taking shit is important--not only b/c of the primary campaign, but in preparation for the actual presidential contest.
20: Racist, defeatist, whatever. My point is that dragging race into what's essentially a personal quibble is kinda crappy and probably unwise.
So Ford, an HRC supporter, says a black man can't win, and Obama dragged race in? Do I have that right?
Do you expect that the Clinton campaign will keep this pace? She may have fewer opportunities to fire broadsides at Obama as the election draws closer, finding herself under constant attack from the right.
Obama is clearly much better as firing back than weak-kneed Edwards.
25: No. Ford brought it up, but Obama's not responding to Ford, he's responding is to the Clinton campaign's criticism of Geffen, and it seems odd to me to drag the question of race into what's essentially a "your supporters are making personal attacks" tit-for-tat. Ogged's explanation clarifies the thing, and makes sense.
I think it's a good case of, "Don't fuck with us, and we won't fuck with you." To make that a credible statement, you have to brandish the nuclear weapons in your arsenal a bit. I dunno about Obama so far but he's got some people with a good ear for this kind of thing in his campaign. Equally, the fact that the Clinton campaign rose to Geffen's bait shows, if nothing, else a lack of judgement about the small-ball game of politics. The smarter play in this context is to act Olympian: "Maureen Dowd's column? No, I didn't have time to read it, thanks."
By the way, Obama jiu-jitsued Ford himself in South Carolina.
Ford's endorsement, along with that of another prominent African-American official, was timed to steal a little of Obama's thunder and presumably contribute to another round of stories about whether he could appeal to black voters. Instead, it was a gift. "I've been reading the papers in South Carolina," Obama said before using a preacher's cadence to paraphrase Ford's remarks. "Can't have a black man at the top of the ticket." The crowd booed. "But I know this: that when folks were saying, We're going to march for our freedom, they said, You can't do that." The audience roared. "When somebody said, You can't sit at the lunch counter. ... You can't do that. We did. And when somebody said, Women belong in the kitchen not in the board room. You can't do that. Yes we can." (At this point I can't reconstruct the remarks from my tape recorder because the screaming was too loud.) The crowd responded by chanting: "Yes, we can."
Obama is going to gain more from Ford's endorsement than Hillary Clinton is. It would have been too audacious, even for Obama, to so overtly link himself to America's civil rights struggles, but Ford's remarks invited him to. Obama will no doubt use that new portion of his stump speech again, and outside of South Carolina. The audience, well represented with African-Americans, loved it. "I got chills," said Constance Eikins, an African-American stay-at-home mom. "It's very overwhelming. I am happy at the thought of it. We have come a long way."
30: Okay, it's official: this guy is good.
Ford's endorsement of Clinton was truly strange in its phrasing. It was something along the lines of "as a prominent black politician, I don't believe that black politicians can rise to prominence," right? One has to wonder whether Hillary called in a chip, but Ford chose a peculiar way to play it.
The man is golden.
Also, this, by Burke, is absolutely right:
the fact that the Clinton campaign rose to Geffen's bait shows, if nothing, else a lack of judgement about the small-ball game of politics.
I am reminded of the line on Dukakis that he had "an instinct for the capilary." HRC is showing a bit of that in the early going.
Dukakis that he had "an instinct for the capilary."
Nice. And I think JM's trying to say that Ford's not articulate.
No, I think Ford managed to endorse Hillary while opening a big old door for Obama to step through.
HRC has never impressed me as a campaigner, or even that good of a pol. I am not talking about policy, on which opinions vary, but the business of getting someone to pull the lever for you, or passing legislation.
The man is golden.
He's more dusky than golden, but you go ahead and see what you want to see, as long as you vote the right way come '08.
I hear Ford is very clean, however, which is what JM is getting at.
Different Ford, different state, JM.
Wait, who's this Robert Ford character? Huh. I got this story wrong from day one, then.
41: I think he was the dirty little coward, who shot Mr. Howard, and laid poor Jesse in his grave, JM.
I can't believe I just laughed at a double-murder story.
Your journey to the Dark Side is almost complete, ogged.
Nail the lifeguard and you and dob can rule the galaxy as father and son.
But actually, you didn't laugh at a double-murder story, you laughed at a clever link.
Y'all keep saying it is early, but with the front-loading of the bigstate primaries, whoever has a ton of money for TV buys and organization for turnout in California etc wins. Gotta build that ground game now.
Sonehow I think this primary season is over by November.
Reflecting on the WP summary of Geffen's comments, it occurs to me that perhaps Obama's campaign wanted people to see the race as Obama vs. HRC. Someone (maybe Petey) made the point a while ago that one way HRC might not win is if there developed a not-HRC candidate for all the people who didn't liker her to coalesce around. I wonder if Geffen's comments are an attempt to make Obama into not-HRC. I further wonder if that's really going to be the early race between Dem candidates--to become known as the leading not-HRC.