Come to that, Orthodox Judaism is itself pretty damn sexist...
I'm not actually sure what you (or Alif, come to that) are complaining about. There's a practice that looks, on its face, to be symptomatic of sexism. The Times appears to be pointing out that such practice exists in the US as well, and so--even if wrong--is not so strange. That seems like a pretty good approach if someone is going to write the article to begin with.
It is a good approach, which is what Alif says, while also noting the underlying "it's weird when they do it" assumption that makes it a good approach.
You know, at first I was going to say something like "Well, most Americans haven't met many Muslims, and so they'll need some method of understanding what seem to be very strange prejudices and customs, I'm not sure what all the fuss is, it's a society of neurotic white Christians who don't get out much", but then I realized that that's not what's going on it all, that it can't be, because most Americans have even less experience of Orthdox Judaism than they do of Islam.
So it's straight appeal to dramaturgy. Jews good, Muslims bad, but wait, these Muslims do things like Jews do things, Muslims good.
That's depressing.
Most Americans are still not real comfortable saying "Jews good" and when told that Jews do things the way Muslims do, may just revert to old ideas about Jews. (Don't they still sacrifice goats in the temple?)
But the article is pitched to the audience of the Times, for whom Jews are definitely good.
5: At least they don't eat human flesh in their temples
Actually, I think what O identifies is another example of the "Is Romney a Mormon or a Christian?" phenomenon. It's OK to be a Muslim, because it can be roped into Judeo-Christian monotheism - at least they're not atheists/polytheists/whatever the hell Buddhists are.
5: More Americans than you think probably think "Jews good", but "Jews" has undergone a Frankensteinian reference shift. The evangelical church where some of my childhood friends went surely supported Israel and respected their idea of the Jews, but it didn't have anything to do with any actual Jewish people. So I don't think you'd find worries about goat blood, but you'd probably find the more pernicious idea of "Jew" meaning "proto-brother-Christian."
ogged also makes a good point.
Orthodox Judaism is itself pretty damn sexist has it right I think. My reaction is not: Muslims are like Jews, oh that's good. It is more like Feh!
I've known women who've told of being harrassed by the Orthodox in Israel, especially around the Temple Mount, for not being modest, not observing the Sabbath properly, &c.
My point being, I think ogged is right that the author did a respectable thing, with good motives and beneficial effects. And it's perfectly acceptable (in less-stringent fora) to explain the unfamiliar by analogy to familiar things. But this case nonetheless buys into the dynamic of drawing a circle of tolerance around "people of faith," meaning, basically, monotheists. For different purposes, that circle can expand or contract, but it will rarely contain any religion originating outside of Palestine, and will never contain the irreligious. Lip service paid to faithful polytheists is primarily anthropological and/or exoticist - aren't those saffron robes lovely?
7 - But "screw the Buddhists"! (That's presidential candidate Dale Hunter's South Carolina campaign chair, by the way. We will note how much attention this straightforward, on-the-record expression of religious bigotry has gotten in the press.)
7: Buddhism is an atheism, and don't let any Mahayanists tell you otherwise.
8: To finish out that last thought, there's the alternative meaning of "Jew" -- "proto-dead-Jew." Since those Jews who refuse conversion in the end times must die.
What kind of sick fuck would believe such a thing?
Other folks also have separation for prayer.
I never know exactly who we're talking about when someone says "orthodox jews," because as far as I can tell, that can either refer to conservative jews who keep kosher and don't like gays, or the guys with the fur hats and crazy overcoats who seem to really like the hospital where I work.
Of the latter, I've had far more experience in the last couple years than I ever imagined I would, and I am here to say, there is no sense in which they could be considered less weird than muslims.
Orthodox Judaism is a very broad category, basically encompassing all American Jews more traditional than those who belong to the Conservative and Reform movements. They range from so-called "mainstream Orthodox" like Joe Lieberman to the hard-core ultra-Orthodox sects like the Lubavitchers. The separation of the sexes is a characteristic of the more extreme varieties.
16: I dunno about that last bit... a fair number of the Orthodox (but non-Chasidic) synagogues I've been to have had separate seating for men and women. It always seemed weird to me, coming from a Conservative background, but at least the Orthodox still had Hebrew services, not like those damn Reform.
Hmm, you may be right. I've never actually been to a non-Chasidic Orthodox service.
wait, so you HAVE been to a Chasidic service?
I can imagine it was very weird.
Recent greater-than-desired exposure to Lubavitchers and scientologists is pretty much what made it finally dawn on me that I (a materialist agnostic type) was not obligated to treat other people's religious beliefs seriously, outside the recommendations of general courtesy.
Chasidism, Mormonism, and Scientology are only three items on the long list of "loony beliefs that seem to work for people".
Also: "People at my office really seem to like me."
hey cerebrocrat,
so what happens when a female M.D. is in the emergency room and is the person available to treat the Black Hat orthodox jews who come to your hospital? Do they accept that? What happens if they don't like it - how far are their beliefs honored when it affects the functioning of the hospital (& its personnel)?
hey cerebrocrat,
so what happens when a female M.D. is in the emergency room and is the person available to treat the Black Hat orthodox jews who come to your hospital? Do they accept that? What happens if they don't like it - how far are their beliefs honored when it affects the functioning of the hospital (& its personnel)?
24/25: Fuck if I know. Good question, though, I'll see if I can find an answer to that.
25: This link may give you some answers. In emergencies, the preservation of life is more important than religious laws.
Prime directive: Stay alive.
There is nowadays a Mekitza, a curtain, between sexes in all Orthodox services. This wasn't always the case; until the fifties, I understand, mixed seating, as in the other movements, was characteristic of about half the Orthodox congregations in the US. All forms of American religion having been marching rightward for about forty or fifty years.