Also Carlos Mencia's real name is something like "John Fitzwilliams".
Or Ned Holness. Whatever. And Mencía is a middle name.
He should keep stealing jokes until he has something like an entire set of funny jokes.
Fine, never liked him. But, "voices for the Comic Community?"
Mencia is a World-Historical low-life. He's also the answer to the question: "what would it be like if David Chapelle were a thief, unfunny, mentally retarded, and white."
You know, before Cosby went insane, he was really funny. He certainly tells that joke much better than Mencia.
Cosby went insane? You mean something other than when he told black parents that parenting is important?
Cosby's humor just doesn't work for me now that I'm no longer ten. Of course, Mencia manages to make the exact same joke both unfunny and offensive.
7: I think rob's referring to when he killed those hobos.
5 wins the thread. And damn, Cosby is good.
Cosby lamenting the uncouthness of poor Negroes and how those crazy kids talk today is not so much "insane" as inane and disappointingly dull-witted, in a Black Republican sort of way. If he's confined his subject matter to parenting he'd have come off better. A little.
Oh, come on. Bill Cosby: Himself was funny. I watched that special over and over growing up. I saw it again the last time I was at my grandmother's house and thought it aged OK. (And points for being something I could watch with my grandma.)
You tell us, Becks. Some people are going to be disappointed.
(Labs, however, will be thrilled.)
Is there something you'd like to tell us, Billbecks?
Not denying Cosby's comedy demigod status in his heyday, of course. (I grew up listening to him and can still recite most of his bits by heart, including the joke Mencia butchers.) He's understandably bitter post-Ennis, though I confess I don't really understand why he's turned that bitterness on the Black community.
Did he really say anything horrible? I thought it was more along the lines of "we need to do for ourselves...."
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that someone who goes by "Slack" and suckles at the socialist teat would be hostile to a message of self-responsibility.
"With names like Shaniqua, Shaligua, Mohammed and all that crap and all of them are in jail" seemed a bit gratuitous.
The post accomplishes what I thought impossible: portraying Joe Rogan in a halfway-sympathetic light (defender of truth! voice of the comic community!).
Gee thanks, Ogged.
In the war between Rogan and Mencia, there are no winners.
"With names like Shaniqua, Shaligua, Mohammed and all that crap and all of them are in jail"
He said that? Dude.
Did he really diss the name Mohammed? Oy.
And is Shaligua pronounced like the dissolute Emperor?
22 hits it.
Rogan, Defender of All That is Right! Ouch.
I chuckle every time I think about Buck-Buck.
It was literally not distinguishable from Black Republican how-can-you-help-these-people boilerplate. Came complete IIRC with claims that people named "Shaniqua" or "Mohammed" always wind up in jail -- the sort of thing that would work in a Black counterpart to a Jeff Foxworthy routine, but not as serious commentary.
Wikipedia has the text of the speech, apparently.
Can we require that standups have at least an Associate's Degree, and that pretty much the entire first semester is spent dissecting what Cos does right and Mencia does wrong with that joke? 2:03 of pure comedy/anticomedy.
Multiply-pwned. Shit.
And the socialist teat is tasty, don't knock it. Getting smaller all the time, though.
Don't worry, Joe Rogan is available to defend the craft (nay, the art!) of comic-storytelling.
Fighting the good-fight for both Truth and Artistry.
Excelsior!
It's kind of ironic that Joe Rogan comes out as Teh Hero in all this. I guess this means I have to stop hating on him for Fear Factor.
Oh, and this.
I actually find Cosby imitations tiresome (making a joke of someone who is much funnier than you is rarely successful), but this is a good premise/execution.
Isn't the plagiarism question easily resolved if the comedian simply renames his show, Hive Mind of Mencia?
The World as Will and Carlos Mencia.
I think it's probably hard to perform that bit without it coming off as bitter, MRA-like stuff, but Cosby almost does (not completely, but enough); Mencía embraces the bitterness full-on and makes you hate him. Note that in neither version does any woman make an actual appearance in the story, but Mencía feels the need to throw in "bitch!"
Carlos Mencia, Author of the Quixote
37: I dunno - until I saw Mencia's massacre of the joke, the embitterment angle hadn't really occurred to me - Cos' bit is about the (stereotypical, but valid) father-son athletic bond, and then the punchline is a classic switcheroo/letdown. And I don't think his tone or wording hint at the father being pissed, just agog. "Oh fer cryin out loud," not "damn him, and damn her."
Don't be hatin' on Jello Pudding-Coca Cola man.
Hate on Mencía all you like, but I don't know what these clips prove. Plagerism? Is there really such a thing as an original joke? Aren't all artists thieves (yes, I stole that)? I think we need to be careful how much credence we give to the ownership of ideas, especially small ideas (like one-click shopping).
There's not much intellectual content to the joke and I could easily see it being reinvented. But whether it was borrowed or reinvented, why should we even care? The funny is in the telling and I agree that Cosby wins that contest hands down.
All this does is make me long for the good old days, when Carlos was named Ned and Joe Rogan was still a character on News Radio and all was right with the world.
In Ogged, all things are possible. I still believe.
37: I don't see the MRA-type at all in Cosby. It's in the same vein as the rest of his comedy: oh, those kids, love 'em to death, can't you believe the things they do.
Ogged is just picking on Mencia because he doesn't want any other Mexicans to succeed.
If you haven't seen it yet check this out.
News Radio was really, really good. But I like everything, so I'm no help.
Don't worry, Joe Rogan is available to defend the craft (nay, the art!) of comic-storytelling.
and "defend" is the word there. He is like a black belt in jiu jitsu and a big mate of the Gracie family.
Also, 42 is precisely the sort of anti-intellectual-property ranting that I'd expect from all you commies.
Cosby created that joke, he should own it.
I support the creation of a new class of intellectual property, to mirror the copyright. Let's call it the Tellingright.
It should be illegal to retell a joke without the express written consent of the original teller. Fair Use is for hippies, of course. Without strong intellectual-property protection laws in this country, how do we expect our stand-up comics to make any money? To support their families, and ply their trade? (Their Art?) How can we expect America to maintain its lead in the Worldwide Stand-up Industry?
I think Congress should hold hearings, of course. Where's Howard Coble when you need him?
48: a big mate of the Gracie family
Seriously?
You know, to be fair, after reading the linked transcript, the "Shaniqua Mohammed" quotation was in the context of Cosby's saying that black Americans aren't Africans, they're American:
Isn't it a sign of something when she's got her dress all the way up to the crack...and got all kinds of needles and things going through her body. What part of Africa did this come from? (laughter). We are not Africans. Those people are not Africans, they don't know a damned thing about Africa. With names like Shaniqua, Shaligua, Mohammed and all that crap and all of them are in jail.
He seems to be arguing that it doesn't do a whole lot of good to emphasize separation and pseudo-Africanism instead of American identity and education, which is what the larger speech is about. God knows it's a controversial argument to be making, but it isn't off-the-cuff racism, either.
Fontana Labs told MY "René the French Fighter Pilot" joke at the UnfoggeDCon and not as well as I tell it.
I seek royalties, damages, and compensation for suffering.
Can I edit the link in 42 so that it goes to the picture of Apo in my colon?
Apparently Rogan was a tae kwon do champ, and,
Rogan is a supporter of the Apollo moon landing hoax theory, and in February 2007 he appeared twice on Penn Jillette's Penn Radio show debating author Phil Plait about the subject.
You can go back to hating him now.
JM, didn't I get your permission or something?
51: No, it's shallow stupidity, not off-the-cuff racism.
54: Whew.
Under duress, and I was in no condition to waive my rights. My lawyers advise me that I should say no more at this point in the legal process.
Also, let the record stand that JM's analogy places Labs squarely in the Mencia position.
JM stole that "I'm pretending that lawyers are involved" thing from Jackie Mason.
57: Hey, I *said* it was controversial. I think he's grossly oversimplifying things as well. All I'm saying is when you quote it out of context it looks different, and worse, than when you read the whole thing.
50: no, I screwed up. He is best mates with Eddie Bravo, and therefore on the other side of the big Gracie/Machado feud. He is pretty hard though.
In 53, I meant to ridicule 46, not 42. JM, did you actually make that joke up? That's amazing.
61: Maybe, except when you read the whole thing you also get full-bore classist element of the rant (apparently bad parenting only happens among "lower economic people"), and the Cos mocking a guy for getting shot in the back by cops (that's the "pound cake" part of the speech). That stuff is in way worse taste than the Shaniqua/Mohammed thing.
It is extremely classist. But underlying it, I think he has a point that others have made in less inflammatory style: one effect of integration and civil rights has been the increasing isolation of poor blacks. I'm inclined to agree that isolating poor people makes the social problems of poverty much worse, although obviously it's a little more complicated than "poor people don't parent right."
Oh, and the "our own ingrown immigrants" thing is pretty classy, too. Damn, I'd almost forgotten how tasteless that speech really was.
66: Yes, that's fair, though I think he unwittingly illustrated that point rather than consciously making it.
68: I agree; I'm not exactly a fan of the speech.
66: "But underlying it, I think he has a point that others have made in less inflammatory style: one effect of integration and civil rights has been the increasing isolation of poor blacks."
I think 66 misses the import of this. Cos isn't saying that integration has increased the isolation of poor blacks; he's saying that poor blacks are at fault for being isolated in this world of integration and civil rights.
I think the word "racist" can be overused, but I struggle to think of another word for this.
Jesse Jackson talks about the responsibility of black people for their lives. Bill Cosby talks about the culpability of black people for their lives. There's an important difference.
That said, I find it relatively easy to forgive the guy who came up with The Chicken Heart That Ate New York City.
71: I think the word "racist" can be overused, but I struggle to think of another word for this.
Well, it's class snobbery. I think the Cos sincerely believed he was saying this shit for the advancement of coloured people. It's just that he's fallen prey to the cliched "why can't these losers pull themselves up by their bootstraps" mentality.
It's always easiest for people to believe that because they made it -- purely by their virtue and the sweat of their brow, of course -- everybody who couldn't is scum.
Mencia stealing from Sam Kinison, too.
Smart. Dead people can't fight back.
If he starts smashing watermelons with a big mallet, he's toast.
It's always easiest for people to believe that because they made it -- purely by their virtue and the sweat of their brow, of course -- everybody who couldn't is scum.
No, it's easiest to take a sour-grapes attitude to the whole concept of getting ahead in life by dismissing it as selling out to Whitey. And Cos manifestly doesn't believe that the people he's talking to are scum. He's saying, "You're better than this. Don't sell yourself short."
You know who else probably defends the Cos on that speech?
Keillor.
42: I am quite certain that being unfunny in the presence of real funny is the worse crime here, and not any sort of intellectual property violation. Sure great artists steal, but they steal very very well.
76: And Cos manifestly doesn't believe that the people he's talking to are scum.
Yeah, the insultingly skewed picture he chooses to paint of the people he's talking to doesn't track with that, sorry. (The "fifty percent" dropout rate he harps on throughout the speech, for instance? That's made up. Drop-out rates for Black youth were at an all-time high in 1972 at 21%.) "I'm going to carelessly paint you as a bunch of crooks and layabouts and laugh at you if the police gratuitously shoot you over a piece of pound cake" is a pretty stupid and fucked-up approach to motivational speaking. But maybe the Cos was just stealing a joke.
Fontana Labs told MY "René the French Fighter Pilot" joke at the UnfoggeDCon
I recently stole the joke that Chopper told.
(No I didn't. There's nobody I hate that much.)
"It should be illegal to retell a joke without the express written consent of the original teller. Fair Use is for hippies, of course. Without strong intellectual-property protection laws in this country, how do we expect our stand-up comics to make any money? To support their families, and ply their trade? (Their Art?) How can we expect America to maintain its lead in the Worldwide Stand-up Industry?"
Geez, way to kill the joke.
54: Actually, the fact that he's a conspiratorial loon is one of the things I like best about him. And, yeah, he is tough as hell. I have it on good authority that the parts of his life that aren't spent dissing Carlos Mencia or convincing barely-sentient male models to eat poop he fills with weed-inspired improv jiu-jitsu sessions with Eddie Bravo. All thoroughly het, one imagines.