Re: Polished

1

Did he offer you a wine from his extensive collection for your trouble?


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:03 PM
horizontal rule
2

You didn't crush his spirit and put him in his place? He's got to learn that there are lots of assholes in the world.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:05 PM
horizontal rule
3

"The weather's always like this here, kid. That's why houses all cost two million bucks and you never see your dad. And your legs are sinking when you swim breaststroke. Eat this wave."


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:08 PM
horizontal rule
4

Excellent- but was he faster than you?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:11 PM
horizontal rule
5

Don't insult me, SP.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:13 PM
horizontal rule
6

3 would be better if I work in the fact that he feels comfortable making small talk because his dad's never around so his mom treats him like an adult....


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:14 PM
horizontal rule
7

Maybe he'll turn out like that kid from Funeral Procession of Roses.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:25 PM
horizontal rule
8

Yeah, you're probably faster (longer legs), but was he at least more successful with the lifeguard?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:26 PM
horizontal rule
9

Or from Harold and Maude.


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:26 PM
horizontal rule
10

Actually, the weather today is much nicer than it was yesterday, so the kid's comment wasn't as vacuous as ogged, embittered by his comparative lack of romantic success, is making it out to be.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:29 PM
horizontal rule
11

I got a call last night from a friend who's feeling oppressed by all the women throwing themselves at him. He said he was considering saying "How about giving me a little of the thrill of the chase?"


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:32 PM
horizontal rule
12

As for the substance of your post, young Ben, remember the microclimates: what it was like in Palo Alto yesterday and today doesn't tell you what it was like in the rest of the area. Indeed, today a man at the pool was complaining about this very fact: he left his house, probably about ten miles from the pool, with the weather beautiful, but found the pool windy and a bit nippy. The spot the pool is in is almost always significantly windier and cooler than the surrounding areas.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:35 PM
horizontal rule
13

The phenomenon of microclimates, while perhaps vitiating the force of the particular example I put forward, only strengthens that of my conclusion, viz., that the kid's comment was meaningful.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:37 PM
horizontal rule
14

So wrong you were right. In any case, I politely agreed with him, since the weather has taken a turn for the warmer lately.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:39 PM
horizontal rule
15

Although the phenomenon of microclimates doesn't really tell us one way or the other whether the kid's comment was meaningful, since a today/yesterday comparison would only be significant if he were comparing the same locale (unless he just traveled and was noting something about that).


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:43 PM
horizontal rule
16

You'd like my oldest son, Ogged.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:47 PM
horizontal rule
17

11: Does that connect to something in some oblique way?


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:47 PM
horizontal rule
18

You'd like my oldest son, Ogged.

I already like him, Apo.

11: Does that connect to something in some oblique way?

To being embittered by lack of romantic success.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:49 PM
horizontal rule
19

17: Some guys have beautiful women crowding them from every which way; Ogged gets hit on by a ten year old boy at the pool. At least he was precocious.


Posted by: Junior Mint | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:50 PM
horizontal rule
20

You failed to ask the kid about his neglected Mom's hottness. "Kid, if she wasn't your mom......"

My 2.5-year-old-grandnephew calls me "Johnny". I'm supposed to be Uncle John, but he picked it up from my sister I think.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:53 PM
horizontal rule
21

20 (a) makes a good point.


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 6:55 PM
horizontal rule
22

I exclusively get hit on by objectively hott guys who are dumb. It is sad.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:01 PM
horizontal rule
23

Sounds like me as a ten-year-old.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:01 PM
horizontal rule
24

23 to 22


Posted by: Beefo Meaty | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:02 PM
horizontal rule
25

22: Sounds like you might be intimidating to non-arrogant guys. We've probably had this discussion before.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:03 PM
horizontal rule
26

I don't know what I'm doing wrong. Tried to figure it out last weekend, ended up screwing a 24-year-old model.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:07 PM
horizontal rule
27

Oh, you poor dear.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:08 PM
horizontal rule
28

Complaining is silly; I'm not complaining. But I am unattractive enough I should be able to weed those guys out and get right to the smart, complex ones.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:10 PM
horizontal rule
29

Off-topic, I'm becoming more and more convinced that the entire lab I'm working in is a giant waste of money and has no reason to exist, and that my boss has an almost bizarre aversion to planning and making decisions. With the result that all the decisions that get made are made by people who are not qualified or knowledgeable enough to make decisions (that is, graduate students), with the full knowledge that several months down the road we will finally realize what the proper decision should have been, and will be embarrassed trying to justify our actions. And our boss should be embarrassed at this proof that he was not actually paying attention to the decisions, but in fact he will just act as if nothing matters one way or the other. I hope I'm the last student ever to work with him.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:13 PM
horizontal rule
30

I'm just giving you a hard time, AWB. But is there such a thing as 'so beautiful smart guys get nervous'? I am skeptical.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:17 PM
horizontal rule
31

smart, complex ones

Overrated.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:17 PM
horizontal rule
32

30, I think it would be better stated as "so seemingly un-nerdy that nerdy guys get nervous".


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:18 PM
horizontal rule
33

is there such a thing as 'so beautiful smart guys get nervous'?

I don't know about smart guys, but I think some woman are so beautiful that only assholes will hit on them. It takes a certain level of presumptuousness or covetousness, after all.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:19 PM
horizontal rule
34

They don't have to be beautiful. In fact, it would be ideal if they weren't. And I'm a big nerd; I'm just comfortable with it, I guess.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:20 PM
horizontal rule
35

Of course, some assholes are smart guys. Some of them are even complex, especially if they turn out to be bipolar.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:20 PM
horizontal rule
36

34: God, I can't talk. I meant, is there such a thing as "this woman is so beautiful, that I, as a smart complex guy, shy away from talking to her?" Or what 30 said. Unfogged could answer that question.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:25 PM
horizontal rule
37

Complex != psychotic, or at least it shouldn't all the time.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:25 PM
horizontal rule
38

37 to 35


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:26 PM
horizontal rule
39

32, 33 and 35 to 36.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:26 PM
horizontal rule
40

Maybe complex, shy dudes are particularly romantic in their sexual attraction in a way that unshy, relatively uncomplex dudes are not.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:27 PM
horizontal rule
41

Agree with ogged in #31 and #33. It's not just assholes, though--just super-confident, which tacks well with asshole.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:27 PM
horizontal rule
42

29: Why, CrypticNed, I didn't know you were part of our institute! Why haven't you let me know whether you'll be attending the guest lecturer lunch on Wednesday? And what's up with all those trips to the ice machine when my lab is at lab meeting?


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:27 PM
horizontal rule
43

I've known girls who complained of being unnecessarily attractive in a conventional way and therefore only being hit on by super-confident assholes. What they did to combat this problem was wear something defiantly unstylish, as a sort of message that says to nerds, "Nerds welcome here", and says to chets, "This chick might be trouble, her shoes are weird".

If you're already defiantly unstylish, I don't know what to tell you.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:30 PM
horizontal rule
44

36: is there such a thing as "this woman is so beautiful, that I, as a smart complex guy, shy away from talking to her?"

No, but there's such a thing as "so beautiful only unusually confident guys will take a shot," and thus higher percentages of arrogant, unreflective and/or physically beautiful people in the pool of guys under discussion.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:32 PM
horizontal rule
45

44 is me.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:33 PM
horizontal rule
46

41, 43 and 44 to 36.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:33 PM
horizontal rule
47

It must be awful simultaneously to be so attractive that only people to whom one is unattracted hits on one, and utterly incapable of hitting on those to whom one is attracted.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:34 PM
horizontal rule
48

AWB, try wearing glasses? I know it sounds stupid, but I think that IME glasses-wearing does slightly filter for smart and complex.


Posted by: kali | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:34 PM
horizontal rule
49

47 gets it right. I don't see how this is a problem anyway, unless AWB takes an exclusively passive role in the hitting-on process, which seems unlikely.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:36 PM
horizontal rule
50

I think what's odd, though, is it's not like I get the sense that the normal-looking, bright sorts of gentlemen I meet are into me but too shy to do anything about it. They're all into beautiful dumb girls. I'm not intimidating them out of doing anything; they're really just not that into me. I am attractive to guys who would probably think of me as "chocolate eaten in the closet," as a girlfriend of mine calls it--something you know is going to be delicious, but in a perverse and possibly self-destructive and shameful way.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:37 PM
horizontal rule
51

Oh dear, it seems that you may be attracting the men whose primary interest is "wild crazy-chick sex".

Wait a minute, that may not be a problem either.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:39 PM
horizontal rule
52

51: Yes, that seems about right. Last weekend's gent kept saying, "I like you because you're so FUN," which could very well translate as "fucking INSANE."


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:42 PM
horizontal rule
53

48: Glasses might help. They make me a bit dizzy, but it's not a bad idea.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:43 PM
horizontal rule
54

Some of the smart guys I've met have wanted to date dumb pretty girls to prove that they are manly enough to get the pretty ones. Years of my life, indeed, have been wasted on watching my homely smart crushes chase beautiful girls who weren't interested in nerdy stuff; all the while, I would be the loyal female friend providing good advice.

Now I date only men who are either slightly dumber than me (yes, I know, it's a tiny pool) or more insecure so that I can dominate the conversation. Sadly, I've never gotten to date a fellow with big ugly nerd glasses--they're all busy Jean-Paul-Sartre-ing it after tiny blonds.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:43 PM
horizontal rule
55

47: And w-lfs-n, believe me, I do try. I am no wilting lily.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:45 PM
horizontal rule
56

Hmm, it seems that there may be more nerds who like to fancy themselves as super-confident assholes than I had thought.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:45 PM
horizontal rule
57

53: The glasses don't have to be functional, surely? Anyway, I hate to pooh-pooh the idea but I think we're probably about fifteen years past the days when glasses would have done any significant filtering.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:46 PM
horizontal rule
58

54: Frowner speaks teh true. I think this is deeply about masculinity. I'm not "manly," exactly, but I do broadcast a sort of Steve McQueenish derring-do that intimidates most gents. Which is perhaps why so many of them apologize for perfectly normal penis size (something previously discussed here as absolutely not done, ever, by anyone).


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:47 PM
horizontal rule
59

I do broadcast a sort of Steve McQueenish derring-do

Now you've gone too far.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:49 PM
horizontal rule
60

I'll admit that the one time I was with a woman who was substantially more experienced sexually than me and made no effort to hide it, I felt pretty freaked out and emasculated, and have not wanted that to happen again. It's irrational, but, you know, sexual attraction is irrational.


Posted by: George Washington | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:51 PM
horizontal rule
61

59: About sex, Ogged, not driving in San Francisco.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:51 PM
horizontal rule
62

I could even say "It's irrational and counterproductive", but that's what happens.


Posted by: George Washington | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:53 PM
horizontal rule
63

I think glasses would do even better signalling now than in times of yore, because of the availability of lasik eye surgery.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:54 PM
horizontal rule
64

chocolate eaten in the closest? that is fabulous.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:55 PM
horizontal rule
65

44 -- didn't Jackson Browne comment on that phenomenon?


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:56 PM
horizontal rule
66

s/b closet


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 7:56 PM
horizontal rule
67

Me and my female friends in math used to joke about this phenomenon:

We'd get hit on by really dorky math guys who seem to be thinking that he's spotted some sort of diamond in the rough. "Y'know, I bet no one's ever told her that she's cute before. I'm the first! Market opportunity! Strike while the iron's hot!"

They'd say things like, "You're cuter than you think you are." (Oh yeah? What makes you think I don't think I'm fucking stunning?)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:00 PM
horizontal rule
68

perhaps why so many of them apologize

a) Madness.

b) Isn't this a bit inconsistent with the whole "I attract the hott dumb non-nerdy non-complex no-inner-life ones" thing?


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:02 PM
horizontal rule
69

Yeah, I find that "your ass isn't as nice as you think it is" is much more effective.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:03 PM
horizontal rule
70

I think you said something more like, "I'm like 90% sure that you have a gigantic ass, Heebie." Didn't realize you were hitting on me, though.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:04 PM
horizontal rule
71

What makes you think I don't think I'm fucking stunning?

The huge number of teen movies they have watched containing the "beautiful/plain girl" character who discovers her beauty in the third act and stuns everyone at the prom, etc.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:05 PM
horizontal rule
72

I think I said "too big." Maybe the numerical description would have worked better on you.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:05 PM
horizontal rule
73

67: Ugh. That's gross.

I feel like my situation might be the opposite, in a fruitful way. Guys think, "She is nowhere near as cute as she thinks she is, which means she must have some secret skillz that are not apparent." Instant complex, out of nothing. Your situation makes the guy think himself superior, mine makes him think himself inferior. You are (obviously) hott and sexxay, and I am actually thoughtful and sensitive, but teh m4l3 gaz0rs actually changes us into something else for them? I dunno. The dude brain is a mystery.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:08 PM
horizontal rule
74

67 - Aww, Heebie, it's just because math undergrads are dorks who play D&D. They were simply overwhelmed by your bootyliciousness, far greater than that of any 12th level elven priestess.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:09 PM
horizontal rule
75

Yeah, those nerdy guys are way off. What the serious seducers do is insult women in order to make themselves appear less desperate and make the women feel more insecure.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:09 PM
horizontal rule
76

That link is really popular, Ned.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:11 PM
horizontal rule
77

75: Particularly amusing is the fellow on the linked page who is wondering how to introduce girls he knows already to his newer, meaner, more seductive self. Also interesting how much jargon and scientification, as if by creating a new field of "knowledge" they will succeed with women. Maybe I should hang out in bars more so that perhaps I could see one of these guys try this stuff out--they must hit on the plain chicks around closing time.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:15 PM
horizontal rule
78

Frowner thinks I am smart because she has never hit on me.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:18 PM
horizontal rule
79

So, will, got a little German in you?

There, that was easy.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:19 PM
horizontal rule
80

darn it. Now she thinks I am dumb.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:19 PM
horizontal rule
81

The only guys I've ever known who believed in the "PUA" nonsense were, yes, unattractive skinny libertarian social-darwinist computer-science nerds.

But it's everywhere, it's all out there. For some guys it's the new equivalent to secret fraternal societies.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:20 PM
horizontal rule
82

It's okay, Will. I really like your left eye a lot.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:20 PM
horizontal rule
83

And I hit on Ogged all the time...he's the exact type of luscious, empty-headed male beauty so irresistable to both Gore Vidal and me.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:20 PM
horizontal rule
84

Brief Googling confirms my vague recollection that someone wrote a book called Secrets of Speed Seduction, which was all about how the crackpot tenets of neuro-linguistic programming could have you pulling chicks like you were Dennis Kucinich.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:20 PM
horizontal rule
85

What if it's just that dudes are into girls who are not impressed by them?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:20 PM
horizontal rule
86

75: Dear god. I'm going to secede from the male sex and start a new one now.


Posted by: Hamilton Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:21 PM
horizontal rule
87

Hurry will, hurry! Start mirroring her movements! Drop your keys and see if she shows any motion toward picking them up!

Make sure she isn't the wingman or the DUFF!!!!!!


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:21 PM
horizontal rule
88

85: Why then, I look forward to far, far more dates as I get older and less impressed.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:22 PM
horizontal rule
89

85, probably the dudes who are into you are into girls who are not impressed by them. Meanwhile, the poster of 60 would not be one of those guys.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:23 PM
horizontal rule
90

88: Seems to have helped me. When I was in HS, everyone was amazing to me and I couldn't get beyond one or two actionless dates to save my life.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:23 PM
horizontal rule
91

It's good to be understood, Frowner.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:23 PM
horizontal rule
92

I think 85 is the fact of the matter. Distancer-pursuer dynamics are irresistable to the pursuer.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:24 PM
horizontal rule
93

63: because of the availability of lasik eye surgery.

I don't follow...

65: The range of Jackson Browne's commentary is wide, I wouldn't be surprised.

75: God, it's a little cruel to say, but there are times when I completely understand why nerds get stuffed in lockers.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:25 PM
horizontal rule
94

God, it's a little cruel to say, but there are times when I completely understand why nerds get stuffed in lockers.

Ogged understands.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:26 PM
horizontal rule
95

A little confidence goes a long way. Plus, if a girl is too into me, then clearly I can do better.

In all semi-seriousness, this is why I prefer women in their mid-to-late 30's and above. They don't want to bullshit anymore. If they like you, they tell you. If they want to jump you, they say so.

They know that their butt doesnt look like an 18 year old, and generally, they are ok with that. Women in their 20's are to be avoided.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:26 PM
horizontal rule
96

93: I do believe we need to refine upon our taxonomy of nerds. IThe libertarian social-darwinist ones referenced above are pretty different from the big-glasses-blond-chasers of my heartbroken youth, for example. One could probably taxonomize a lot by glasses, too--I would expect ugly wireframes on the social darwinist ones.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:27 PM
horizontal rule
97

95: Women in their 20's are to be avoided.

That sentence is just so unbelievably wrong.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:27 PM
horizontal rule
98

Women in their 20's are to be avoided.

Yeah, I don't dig old chicks either.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:28 PM
horizontal rule
99

97:

Should I have added: "until you are in your 50's"?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:29 PM
horizontal rule
100

93 - because there's even fewer people than ever before who are forced to wear glasses by circumstance.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:29 PM
horizontal rule
101

The libertarian social-darwinist ones referenced above are pretty different from the big-glasses-blond-chasers of my heartbroken youth, for example.

Wait...these guys are also big-glasses blond-chasers.

The type of glasses doesn't really matter. The real question is whether he is trying to find a woman he can have awesome conversations with, or a woman he can condescend to. with the latter type of guy, I can't stay friends with him too long.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:30 PM
horizontal rule
102

98: The Derb is with you on this.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:30 PM
horizontal rule
103

Ogged understands.

Truth be told, I never beat up kids just for being nerdy. It was the ones who had a lot of attitude for no discernible reason that bothered me; they needed to learn humility.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:31 PM
horizontal rule
104

Plus, if a girl is too into me, then clearly I can do better.

Oooh, this makes me nervous. My own gestures toward flirting are usually so feeble as to be invisible (when I'm not using the negs, of course). But from now on I'll just sweep haughtily by the various objects of my affections and snap at them when they try to talk. "Quiet, you!" I'll say, flicking them across the face with my riding crop.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:32 PM
horizontal rule
105

Women in their 20's are to be avoided.

Even as a woman in my 20's, I think there's a lot of truth to this. Furthermore, a lot of women in their 20's would do a lot better to be single and do some soulsearching as to why landing a man is the end-all-be-all of their life's purpose.

In other words, women in their 20's often need to heal and recover from the horrific gender socialization they've been brainwashed with during their first twenty years.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:32 PM
horizontal rule
106

Ogged beat up kids?

My mental image of Ogged was more nerdy gamer. Interesting how we created mental images of other people we have never seen.

I won't mention my image of heebie.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:33 PM
horizontal rule
107

frowner:

I've found that flirting is more direct as you get older. "I like you. Do you like me?" works very well.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:34 PM
horizontal rule
108

women in their 20's often need to heal and recover from the horrific gender socialization they've been brainwashed with during their first twenty years

...and just screw around instead.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:34 PM
horizontal rule
109

106 you tease!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:34 PM
horizontal rule
110

105 nails it. But is also true for men.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:35 PM
horizontal rule
111

Will, you need to join the club. This is everyone else's mental image of Ogged.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:36 PM
horizontal rule
112

My mental image of Ogged was more nerdy gamer.

This is hilarious and deeply hurtful, will. But here's Lab's note after we met.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:37 PM
horizontal rule
113

Wears ponytail. Round booty. tough girl. Mischevious.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:37 PM
horizontal rule
114

108 Screwing around can be totally healthy. Anything goes. She just needs to develop herself as her referee and stop living via validation with male attention.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:37 PM
horizontal rule
115

75: It's so precious. Here is how to get women according to my rules. Next stop: "The women did not listen to my rules. It must be the fault of feminism!"


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:40 PM
horizontal rule
116

113 Pretty much, but I've also got scales and froglike suckers on my fingers and toes, enabling me to nimbly scale walls and ceilings. Is why I type so slow.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:41 PM
horizontal rule
117

AWB, this can all be explained by the fact that you're a healthy specimen of humanity. Hot guys look for fitness, in the evolutionary sense, and you fit the bill. (Also, what's the female equivalent of Grizzly Adams? 'Cause that might work.)


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:43 PM
horizontal rule
118

115: Oh, it gets much sadder than that.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:44 PM
horizontal rule
119

96, 103: Maybe the key difference is between nerds who yearn to be Chris Knight and those who don't.

99: I think by your 50s one should have moved on to the 17-18 demographic.

For real, I of course wouldn't take anything away from women in their thirties, but twentysomethings are (sometimes) in that magical zone where they're savvy enough to know what they're doing, interesting as people and relatively baggage-free. Those are wonderful things.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:45 PM
horizontal rule
120

118: what does this mean? "They were highschool friends catching up, all 26-77 years old."


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:47 PM
horizontal rule
121

117: Huh, SEK. I've actually heard this before, from an excruciatingly hot ex. It was part of a sort-of-creepy statement about how, whenever he's on a train that stops, he imagines, if the only people left on earth were the ones on that car, which would be the fittest one for him to re-begin the earth's population with. The relationship did not last long.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:47 PM
horizontal rule
122

116:

I forgot to mention medium sized guns.

119:
relatively baggage free? No way. They are FULL of baggage. They just don't realize it. That is much worse.

Ogged: "Much less geeky than people thought" should be on a plaque.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:48 PM
horizontal rule
123

(That they acted older than their years?)


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:48 PM
horizontal rule
124

Oh, and he calls them "birds". Really, the next step is, "feminism ruined all American women, because now when I treat them badly they have the means to leave, but I've heard that women desperate to escape poverty will marry American men... how do I keep my new bride from changing?"


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:49 PM
horizontal rule
125

relatively baggage free? No way. They are FULL of baggage. They just don't realize it. That is much worse.

I second this. My decade can take itself WAY too seriously. Women either chill out by their thirties, or they've got kids, in which case they can channel all that angst onto the baby.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:51 PM
horizontal rule
126

Dude, you all are crazy, generalizing about 20-somethings. I could say some mean things, but I instead will make a joke and an observation. A) Some of our butts are better than they were at 18. B) You're just nuts if you think women or men are nuts at one age and not nuts at another. Nuts is nuts is nuts.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:52 PM
horizontal rule
127

There are a lot of these blogs; frustrated guys take up the "PUA" lingo and start these blogs to document their progression toward playerhood. Generally, as we see in 118, he finds that no matter how hard he tries to be a confident asshole, his newly chosen lifestyle is incompatible with a non-sociopathic human brain, and the women are repulsed.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:53 PM
horizontal rule
128

125: Heebie, what about MEEEEEEE? I have no child, yet I have no perceptible chilling-out either. Perhaps I'm not really thirty-two and aliens have been manipulating my sense of time for their own nefarious purposes. This would explain a lot, actually.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:53 PM
horizontal rule
129

You're just nuts if you think women or men are nuts at one age and not nuts at another. Nuts is nuts is nuts.

Word.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:55 PM
horizontal rule
130

This is a moving tale.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:55 PM
horizontal rule
131

116: Hottt.


Posted by: Hamilton Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:56 PM
horizontal rule
132

126 - I'm just saying, at some point women have to deal with the inferiority indoctrination society saddles the female sex with.

I personally grew a lot over these past few years, so I'm mapping it onto everyone else with dogged tunnel vision.

128 - I'm thinking. One sec.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:56 PM
horizontal rule
133

Cala has it exactly right in 126.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:57 PM
horizontal rule
134

Wow. There are a damn lot of YouTube vids on "sarge" training. So triumphalist!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:58 PM
horizontal rule
135

OK, how about this. Some guys spend their teen years learning how to be sexy, socially-adept, charming, fun, seductive, athletic, etc. They often end up dumb and conceited.

Other guys are smart because they studied a lot, but they spent very little time learning those other skills and behaviors. But worse than just being inept, they feel tremendously resentful and blame women for their own problem.

However, my main point is that you're all doomed, and nothing will ever work for you, because the evil demiurge who controls the universe wants us all to be miserable.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:58 PM
horizontal rule
136

130: I'm laughing here, that guy looks exactly like the libertarian social-darwinist computer nerd I had in mind.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:59 PM
horizontal rule
137

124: Isn't the "birds" bit because he's Australian or British or otherwise Commonwealthy?

The rise of internet message boards must provide a field day for sociologists - between this and the "San Diego Creative Investors Association" I can't imagine ever wanting for "at least I'm not that guy" validation again.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 8:59 PM
horizontal rule
138

130: I'd really like to interview some of the girls these guys sleep with because I just can't imagine the kind of people who would fall for those kinds of lines. I find it difficult to believe that guys like that and women like those really exist and it isn't just a giant put-on. Talk about a guy with the kind of face you want to hit!


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:03 PM
horizontal rule
139

126, 133 You don't think there are life stages that loosely describe many people's experiences?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:05 PM
horizontal rule
140

Awesomely, one of the pickup lines advertised as part of The Game is "Do you think magic spells work?" If the answer is yes, presumably the next move is to put on your robe and wizard hat.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:06 PM
horizontal rule
141

121: I'm cheating. Someone tagged that picture of me on Facebook, and when I went to see it -- after all, I'm second-to-Kotsko in the not-having-pictures-of-me-taken-department -- I learned that you're a healthy specimen of humanity.


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:07 PM
horizontal rule
142

I have no child, yet I have no perceptible chilling-out either.

Frowner, totally out of idle curiousity, why do you think you're so high-strung? (Not asking for evidence, but more like a historical trajectory.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:07 PM
horizontal rule
143

I think the lines these guys use are probably fairly effective because it least it gives them something to say other than whatever it is guys say when they try to hit on women they know nothing about.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:08 PM
horizontal rule
144

so we have learned that Frowner hasnt chilled out, Cala and heebie have nice butts, Emerson thinks relationships are doomed, and Ogged isnt as geeky as people think.

Productive night.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:09 PM
horizontal rule
145

141: Is there a pic of us together, SEK? I didn't get tagged, I don't believe. Do I look healthy in it?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:09 PM
horizontal rule
146

OH. That's my FB status. Nevermind. Hee.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:11 PM
horizontal rule
147

I just meant, as opposed to last week, when my status was various versions of "coughing my brains out."


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:11 PM
horizontal rule
148

Have any laddies here been hit on using any of the "Game" lines?


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:12 PM
horizontal rule
149

139: Sure, but by the time you're talking 20something you're already dealing with a hugely diverse group at a bunch of different life stages.

143: It's true that if one can't make actual conversation, knowing what types of lines to employ and when is the next best thing.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:12 PM
horizontal rule
150

Eh, mostly I was kidding. But I think it's a mixture of family--we're all either depressives or just a bit whackaloon (and which am I?)--being a fattish butch straight woman (with beautiful hair, a nice rack and great shoes, I'll have you know)--and having a career path that's a bit unusual for my class and educational background. Even among weirdos I'm a bit weird, and I say that in all earnestness or however you put it around here.

I've got to sleep and prepare for another day of thankless toil now, though.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:12 PM
horizontal rule
151

150 to 142...


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:13 PM
horizontal rule
152

139: Not usefully, no. Is the 20-something woman lamenting her missing ass more or less crazy than the 30-something woman whose ovaries have taken over her brain? Is the 20-something guy who hasn't figured out he's not in college any more more or less crazy than the 30-something guy who must have something wrong with him, 'cause otherwise he'd be snapped up?

I've grown a lot since I was 22, but I think it would be a mistake to conclude that all the growing has made me a more pleasant date, or that everyone grows the same.

Sorry to be humorless, but this just rubs me the wrong way. Like not only do I have a sell-by date, I have a 'don't use before' date, and it's certainly not a problem with the men...


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:16 PM
horizontal rule
153

geeez of course every generalization can be proven false.

It isnt a don't use before date but rather a open with caution sticker.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:18 PM
horizontal rule
154

148: Did you mean to say "laddies" or is that a typo for "ladies"?


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:18 PM
horizontal rule
155

149 - fair enough. But all girls hit puberty and are saddled with the patriarchy and their newly diminished status, compared to when they were in elementary school.

I think it's common to get the hang of being yourself throughout your teens, and then start coming to terms with how society shaped you, in your twenties.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:20 PM
horizontal rule
156

139, 152: The thing is not to confuse lifecourse transitions (which confront people as social facts about the passage of time) with personal growth or self-knowledge. E.g., thanks to the lifecourse, many middle-class people go through a phase in their late 20s/early 30s when everyone they know is getting married, just as in their early 20s it was graduating or whatever, and later it's everyone's having kids. But then this doesn't mean wisdom is growing or craziness abating in individuals, just that time is passing in a socially organized fashion.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:21 PM
horizontal rule
157

155: Yes, but then you're 30, and oh ho ho, don't date those thirty-somethings, their clocks go tick-tock tick-tock, and christ, at 40, you're just better off masturbating.

God, who bit me with the humorless bug tonight. I must find them and slay them.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:23 PM
horizontal rule
158

Cala needs M&M's.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:25 PM
horizontal rule
159

154 -- oops, yeah, strike the second "d".


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:25 PM
horizontal rule
160

(Although if any of the laddies here have been hit on using those lines, that would be an interesting data point as well.)


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:26 PM
horizontal rule
161

No, you're right, Cala. At least, it would make sense only to discuss the Catch-22 of being a woman at various stages alongside a discussion of male insufficiency in their decades. 20-somethings are too insecure about their masculinity, 30-somethings are psycho-obsessed with either getting or avoiding relationships, and 40-somethings are too tired to have any actual fun. Or maybe it's not really ever fair.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:26 PM
horizontal rule
162

Like not only do I have a sell-by date, I have a 'don't use before' date,

(Cala, I think this might piss you off more.)

This statement still puts men first. I'm saying, it would do women good to learn to see themselves as a primary individual who is whole and complete, regardless of whether they end up single and alone or not.

Most women (and probably most men, but that's not my point) live their twenties in dire fear of ending up single and alone. Our society (besides John Emerson) has no appreciation for a woman's wholeness as an individual, should she bounce around and never be defined by a decades-long relationship.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:26 PM
horizontal rule
163

161:

absolutely. When generalizing wildly, men are fair game too.

When did we start demanding accuracy here?!!!!


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:27 PM
horizontal rule
164

I really do. But I don't. They make me break out and if I keep eating them, I will not fit into my wedding gown, which I am told is the worst thing ever next to ebola.

I'm not sure why the wedding-industrial complex thinks that every woman getting married needs to lose weight. Haven't we already landed the guy?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:28 PM
horizontal rule
165

"our society" and "John Emerson" are members of different classes.


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:28 PM
horizontal rule
166

162:

Agreed. Men and women in their mid-twenties are bombarded with the questions of when are you getting married or when are you having babies?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:28 PM
horizontal rule
167

Also the kids thing - we do not have a support structure for women who are not in a permanent relationship to rear kids.

A few years ago I had a really emotional discussion with my mom, about how she'd help if I ended up deciding to have kids outside of a relationship.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:29 PM
horizontal rule
168

I can't get YouTube where I am... someone reassure me. Are these assholes secretly filming the women they chat up in bars? That idea makes me feel ill.
And it's really depressing that women are so vulnerable to passive-aggressive manipulation. Although I'm uncomfortably aware that I occasionally fascinate men by being a snarky bitch whose shyness frequently comes off as dismissiveness (and to be fair, it often actually is dismissiveness.) So I guess it works both ways. But I'm not doing it on purpose!


Posted by: kali | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:29 PM
horizontal rule
169

162: I don't think I really have a defensible position. Just that it was bugging me for some reason when other off-the-cuff generalizations don't. I just should have gone for the easy insult.

Thesis: any guy whinging on about how twenty-somethings are crazy has only persuaded himself of that because they think of him as the creepy old man at the bar and won't sleep with him.

All better!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:31 PM
horizontal rule
170

167:

How does anyone have kids without grandparent help?

I have a friend who got fertilized at 38 bc she decided she was never finding a man. Cute kid. Good for her.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:31 PM
horizontal rule
171

Also the kids thing - we do not have a support structure for women who are not in a permanent relationship to rear kids.

That's not really a gender specific problem. Single parenting...not an attractive option in many ways.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:32 PM
horizontal rule
172

168: I wonder if the effectiveness of flirting comes down, in the end, to an explicit directness that obviously overlays deeply not giving a shit either way.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:32 PM
horizontal rule
173

Cala, that hurts. Really, really hurts.

It was a lifeguard at the pool, not a bar.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:33 PM
horizontal rule
174

169 - yeah, it's a topic that I'm hypersensitive to, so I was probably dogmatic in my language. This was a defining battle for me over the past five years.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:35 PM
horizontal rule
175

172:

Kind of like the advertisement: Hurry, supplies limited!!!!


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:35 PM
horizontal rule
176

172: That is, "lines" work because they are obviously lines. They signify obvious interest to the other party, but in such a way that doesn't make the flirtee think the flirter has a creepy flirtee-specific agenda, which means you don't have to do any soul-searching about what responding to it would "mean." This would also explain my original problem, because I'm pretty upfront with dudes, and when it's someone I'm not terribly interested in as a person, he's usually extremely responsive.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:35 PM
horizontal rule
177

171 Absolutely, true for both genders. Just happened to use the depersonal "women" as shorthand.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:36 PM
horizontal rule
178

172: I flirt with a purpose: to let all the ladies know what a catch I am, and make them lament that they didn't meet me sooner.


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:37 PM
horizontal rule
179

That said, 178 is an example of me flirting. Make of it what you will.


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:37 PM
horizontal rule
180

173: they have lifeguards at bars?


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:38 PM
horizontal rule
181

Are these assholes secretly filming the women they chat up in bars?

The one AWB linked isn't like this, but there are some "live" "instructional" videos that seem to be.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:38 PM
horizontal rule
182

will is ogged! willartaxerxes!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:39 PM
horizontal rule
183

178: I'm going to go change my FB status to "crying herself to sleep over the unavailability of time travel."


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:39 PM
horizontal rule
184

168: It's a photo montage of stills of the guy with women in public places, so it's not as bad as you're thinking.

And it's really depressing that women are so vulnerable to passive-aggressive manipulation.

If it makes you feel any better, it's not just women. And in any case, it's common for guys to think they've put one over on women who are actually overlooking their obvious flaws in order to give them a chance (or maybe just in the hopes of decent lay).


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:39 PM
horizontal rule
185

I wouldnt wish single parenting on anyone. I have my kids about half the time. I live with my significant other. I have lots of family close by who can help.

I love spending time with my kids. But it is really hard to take care of them even with all the support that I have.

I cannot imagine the people who do it by themselves with a very limited income.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:39 PM
horizontal rule
186

183: In alternate dimensions, I make love to all the ladies.


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:40 PM
horizontal rule
187

I only hit on women on their 30th birthdays.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:47 PM
horizontal rule
188

When you return their wallets with their ID, right?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:49 PM
horizontal rule
189

In alternate dimensions, I make love to all the ladies.

If I said you had a beautiful wurmhole, would you hold it against me?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:51 PM
horizontal rule
190

They signify obvious interest to the other party, but in such a way that doesn't make the flirtee think the flirter has a creepy flirtee-specific agenda, which means you don't have to do any soul-searching about what responding to it would "mean."

Wow, that's quite depressing. Flirting works best when both people involved see each other as not special in any way, interchangeable with any number of other potential mates?

I guess when you actually like the person, you don't flirt, you do something else. Maybe in this sense "flirting" is a realm separate from "having an actual conversation".


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:52 PM
horizontal rule
191

189: Only when I'm wearing my stupid man-suit.


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:53 PM
horizontal rule
192

190 - I'd say, flirting works best when it's playful. When one or both parties are invested, while it might lead to a beautiful relationship, the flirting isn't as lighthearted.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:54 PM
horizontal rule
193

It's a photo montage of stills of the guy with women in public places, so it's not as bad as you're thinking.

Thanks! Huh, is that what those guys are doing who come up to pretty women in bars and ask to pose for photos with them? Cree-pee. But I bet a bunch of photos is all he had.


Posted by: kali | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:54 PM
horizontal rule
194

Grendel also has a beautiful wurmhole.


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 9:54 PM
horizontal rule
195

184: It starts in with real video about halfway through. I stopped watching about that point.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 10:04 PM
horizontal rule
196

193: No, I did better than that. I just haven't had a chance to upload those pictures, yet.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 10:04 PM
horizontal rule
197

186: Had you but worlds enough, and times...


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 10:04 PM
horizontal rule
198

I guess I've been inappropriately using the word "flirting" to describe more serious conversations. Anyway, my problem is much more important than AWB's, so I anticipate an additional 160 comments inspired by #29.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 10:10 PM
horizontal rule
199

Anyway, my problem is much more important

That really does suck. My wife spent some time in what IMO was a shockingly bad lab. She took a tech job at a different one less than a year ago. Like night and day.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 10:14 PM
horizontal rule
200

So it's about time for those of you in the Bay Area to start claiming you've been Warriors fans for years, right?


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 10:21 PM
horizontal rule
201

195: Meh. The only video is of the guy and his friend getting dissed by an attractive brunette. Nothing I'd post if I were trying to pass myself off as a pickup artist.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 10:22 PM
horizontal rule
202

200: In retrospect, it was probably a mistake to become a Warriors fan around 1994-5. I remember listening to their last playoff game (before this year) on the radio when I was in high school.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 10:39 PM
horizontal rule
203

You'd like my oldest son, Ogged.

I already like him, Apo.

What's my kid, chopped meat? Hmph.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 10:45 PM
horizontal rule
204

Women are supposed to spend their twenties wondering whether they'll end up single and alone?


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 10:50 PM
horizontal rule
205

203: Do you need recipes?


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 10:51 PM
horizontal rule
206

204: that's only the ones who haven't already learned for certain that they will.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 10:52 PM
horizontal rule
207

204: Only the late bloomers.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 10:55 PM
horizontal rule
208

They know that their butt doesnt look like an 18 year old, and generally, they are ok with that.

Missing apostrophe. And my ass looks way better, thankyouverymuch.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 10:56 PM
horizontal rule
209

All this notion about 18 year olds being the hottest is just bullshit. I am quite sure that I keep getting more attractive every year since puberty hit. Y'all mo'fuckers are crazy.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 11:02 PM
horizontal rule
210

I'm pretty sure I'm more attractive now than when I was 18. However, when I was 18 I looked like I was 12, so I don't know if that's saying anything.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 11:27 PM
horizontal rule
211

202 -- I am a Sonics fan and not have to spend the next year waiting for the team to leave town.

209 -- I feel like I am a much more capable person than I was at 22, but I am still absurdly geeky, so that may not be worth much either.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 11:34 PM
horizontal rule
212

I think, socially speaking, I was much more capable from about 19-23.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 04-29-07 11:41 PM
horizontal rule
213

"Do you believe in magic spells" is obviously lame. The idea that you can level up your PUA powers is as much a D&Der's fantasy as it seems. But some of the stuff is simple common sense, like here. It only seems like common sense, though, if you already know it, and for this extremely self-conscious high school junior, that page and a few others were fucking gold.


Posted by: William Henry Harrison | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 12:33 AM
horizontal rule
214

Speaking of precocious kids, I was at a gig last week, in a fairly smoky bar. The gig was a sort of semi-formal jam session with dozens of guitar players I know.

Anyway, just at the start of this evening, this little kid -- maybe 8 years old -- pushes through a big group of us in the corner of the bar, and squeezes into a tiny space on a corner seat between me and a friend.

Round his neck he had this little padded case, like a camera case, and he kept fiddling about inside it. I looked down, and inside he had a little plastic lunch box, and inside the little lunch box, was, it turns out, his pet hamster. Complete with bedding and food.

The kid was in the whole evening, he pushed through the throng again at some point, to go and sit in front of the stage in the middle of some howling rock song. There's something incongruous and funny about little kids in pubs.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 12:40 AM
horizontal rule
215

There are some helpful (if crudely presented) insights in the link in 213. There are also some things that make my skin crawl a little.


Posted by: Tarrou | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 12:52 AM
horizontal rule
216

I watched the video. Fuck, I knew it! They use girls as their wingmen? I'm in Dublin, and I don't know if it was this specific guy, but I remember my very hot blonde friend getting approached by a girl with "Will you pose for a photograph?" I don't remember what the guy looked like, but I pulled my friend away when he started groping her ass-- I worry about her because being super hot and being overly nice and unable to set boundaries is a very bad combination. I don't think he got the photo. But I had a weird feeling at the time that there was something creepy and odd about that scenario, and the way the girl asked, as if it was other than spur of the moment. Eww.


Posted by: kali | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 1:42 AM
horizontal rule
217

203: My kid has never called him an asshole.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 5:11 AM
horizontal rule
218

Was it eb or washerdreyer that asked whether Golden State had a chance against Dallas, leading to a curt "No" from me? I'm available to make investment advice as well.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 5:20 AM
horizontal rule
219

152: Those ovaries are really powerful. I am not exactly afraid of the ticking clock--my great grandmother had her only son at the age of 40, in 1910 no less; but I do have these strong ureges to have a kid. The rational part of me thinks that I'm not ready and might be a very bad mother. For brief moment I even imagine myself as a stay-at-home Mom. This disappears when I listen to the conversation of most of the stay-at-home Moms, but it is temporarily powerful. (I was thinking about this when Brock was talking about his wife's desire to stay at home; I can't really imagine how powerful those hormones would be post-pregnancy.)

A discussion for later: does anyone think that the lives of women who don't work have gotten less interesting and more child-centric since more women entered the paid workforce. I think that for women of a certain class the volunteer activities used to be more oriented to the public sphere than they are now. I'm talking about the women who had help. My grandmother would never have considered working for money, but she ran a cottage hospital. My great grandmother (the one who had the kid at 40) was not a university graduate, but she was a blue stocking and was very interested in the arts and political life.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:33 AM
horizontal rule
220

219: I think child care has gotten more laborious -- a combination of increased caution about allowing children to be unsupervised, and sprawl making it much harder for children to actually do anything on their own. Buck's on a business trip, so I was by myself with the kids all weekend (which for me is unusual) and you literally can't do anything that requires adult focus unless you've got your kids locked up indoors. For a weekend here and there it's pleasant -- you end up mostly being a kid yourself (Ooo, Native American festival in the park! Let's play soccer! Let's play Crazy 8's!) but a full life of it would be awfully stultifying, and that sort of total care is necessary a lot longer than it used to be.

On the dating front, I never figured any of this out. I always had the sense that guys I ran across were looking for something quite specific, and entirely other than me, but what the hell they were thinking was a mystery.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:02 AM
horizontal rule
221

Was it eb or washerdreyer that asked whether Golden State had a chance against Dallas, leading to a curt "No" from me? I'm available to make investment advice as well.

You can't stop Isaac Hayes, Apo. GS should play the Shaft theme before every home game. (I am absolutely astonished by the series so far.)


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:18 AM
horizontal rule
222

Two problems with the age generalizations: (1) even if the generalization is kind of accurate there will be so many exceptions that it's not actually that useful; (2) People can have issues with the patriarchy or society or not fully formed as a person or whatever else and still be great to date.

As far as AWB's dilemma: are you primarily meeting guys at bars? Nerds may just be more hesitant to meet women there. Not that it doesn't happen, but you may get a higher % of really attractive dumb guys in the pool.

I don't really know--I spent my entire twenties coupled up & hanging out mainly with coupled-up grad school friends. The last time I spent a sig. amount of time with single guys on nights when they were actively trying to meet someone was in college. Also, I suspect I'm Chet-proof.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:22 AM
horizontal rule
223

a combination of increased caution about allowing children to be unsupervised, and sprawl making it much harder for children to actually do anything on their own

With some trepidation, since some people think this sense of responsibility falls more heavily on moms, I'll say that in our city neighborhood the kids played among themselves and we as adults had less need to watch them once they were no longer literally toddlers. It was a gradual process though, and I think I went outside when they played outside longer than I had to, in the hopes of talking with other parents.

On the dating front, I'm actually relieved to find that so many other people felt they never had a handle on it. Some discussions here have been so blythe as to leave me feeling like a member of a different species.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:25 AM
horizontal rule
224

219: Part of it, in my experience, stems from the fact that just in terms of numbers, an upper-middle-class woman staying at home is more likely to have friends who are working mothers and so there's just not as many women around to do things. This change seemed to pop up quickly. When I was very small, my mom was always hosting social and local school board events. By the time my little sister was born, my mom was one of the only stay-at-home mothers on her block, and she went back to work five years after that.

The other thing is that there's a tendency to treat "being a mom" as a career, and from my perspective, it seems to be out of a desire to be taken as seriously as the women with careers. "I didn't drop out of the workforce; I made a career change" seems to be the mindset, and so there's a lot more pressure to win at Competitive Child Rearing. I cannot imagine my grandmother worrying about the impressiveness of a preschool on a college resume. She'd say it was silly, and light a Pall Mall.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:55 AM
horizontal rule
225

Two problems with the age generalizations: (1) even if the generalization is kind of accurate there will be so many exceptions that it's not actually that useful; (2) People can have issues with the patriarchy or society or not fully formed as a person or whatever else and still be great to date.

1) I think it has some proscriptive benefit. Dropping gender language for a minute, I think people make wiser choices in relationships when they are not staying out of fear of being single. I don't think you can deal with the fear of being single forever much before your 20's. Therefore your 20's are a good time to deal with it.

2) True...but that still puts being dateable as a priority.

I'm saying, there's useful development that occurs being dateable is not a primary concern. Whether someone actually dates during that period is irrelevant.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:06 AM
horizontal rule
226

s/b Insert "when": that occurs when being dateable...


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:08 AM
horizontal rule
227

The biggest issue with generalizations is when people take them seriously.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:08 AM
horizontal rule
228

Yeah, I was actually discussing a particular comment about whether one should avoid relationships w/ women in their 20s. I am not saying women in their 20s should be obsessed with dating at the expense of self actualization, or whatever.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:10 AM
horizontal rule
229

Yesterday I got flirted with in the subway. It was a really strange pickup; the guy was pretty dorky, sort of a clean-cut engineering type, and I couldn't really tell what the hell he wanted from me. He started by asking me about the book I was reading, and then kept asking me about whether I wrote, what sorts of movies I liked. He seemed wierdly detached from the conversation, almost as though he were practicing talking to girls. Since I was very clear about the fact that I was taking the train to see my boyfriend and that he wasn't much of a threat, I played along.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:12 AM
horizontal rule
230

Like not only do I have a sell-by date, I have a 'don't use before' date

It could be worse. I can't even get on the shelf.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:13 AM
horizontal rule
231

222: "you may get a higher % of really attractive dumb guys in the pool."

So you're saying attractive dumb guys hang out at the pool? Interesting.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:14 AM
horizontal rule
232

Dear Diary,

I spoke with an attractive, intelligent woman on the subway today. She was on the way to see her paramour, but I believe I still gained 500XP. I'm really close to levelling up!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:14 AM
horizontal rule
233

You know, way back when on one of the first dating threads around here (the one that spun off that Year of Yes book?) someone was advising making friendly conversation with strangers, even without an immediate pickup agenda, as good practice for being able to get a conversation started with someone you were interested in. Maybe that was what was going on.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:14 AM
horizontal rule
234

Yeah, but I think I made the original comment you were referring to, back in 105, which I still stand by.

The original statement, that women in their 20's are to be avoided, places the focus on men, and is tongue-in-cheeck.

The reciprocal statement, that women in their 20's would do well to take some time off, is the one that I am annoyingly relentlessly harping on.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:15 AM
horizontal rule
235

234 to 228


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:15 AM
horizontal rule
236

I didn't actually tell him I was on the way to see my honey. I was clear on it *in my head*, which I find to be more important. I do hope that the practice was good for him, although, man, the subway is not a good place to pick up women.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:17 AM
horizontal rule
237

the subway is not a good place to pick up women

Penthouse Letters lied to me!


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:37 AM
horizontal rule
238

Clownae! Put them down! They don't like that.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:01 AM
horizontal rule
239

I have been picked up in a train/train-station -- so it happens. Just sayin' ...


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:06 AM
horizontal rule
240

Katherine, I don't go out with guys I meet in bars unless they're friends of friends. I can't imagine reacting positively to any kind of cold line. I get them sometimes and always find them completely baffling and weird, and I suddenly go all Not-Fun. It's not a choice; I'd like to think I could react more reasonably to a cold pickup, but it just turns me off too much.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:42 AM
horizontal rule
241

I can't imagine reacting positively to any kind of cold line.

Not even Ol' Reliable?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:45 AM
horizontal rule
242

Also, fwiw, I met my wife by walking up to her in a bar.

However, I really don't do that -- I think that was the 3rd time in my life, ever -- and I came out with some lame request for her phone number [no small talk, nothing]. She laughed and refused, but luckily it didn't end there.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:45 AM
horizontal rule
243

luckily it didn't end there

The laughing and refusing, you mean?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:46 AM
horizontal rule
244

Heh.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:48 AM
horizontal rule
245

Hey all you naysayers, I have evidence which suggests that John, aka doctor boy, is actually interested.

Yesterday I was in church and sat in a pew by myself on the side where he normally sits. He was a couple of minutes late, and he touched me on the small of my back as he came to the pew. He also said that he was really tired, so if he fell asleep, I should poke him to wake him up.

He also asked me over to his place to see if I could help him figure out how to move a built-in shelf. He did warn me that it was nearly furniture free and when there he was really concerned to make it look as neat as possible.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:52 AM
horizontal rule
246

214: Poor hamster!

217: I bet your kid has never even given Ogged a phone call. What kind of friend is that?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:55 AM
horizontal rule
247

You should make a pass when you're over helping him move the shelf. A little meaningful eyecontact, some talk about how much fun you have spending time with him, put your hand on his arm, and bingo, smooches. You might get shot down, but that's the perfect opportunity.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:57 AM
horizontal rule
248

Well, I didn't make a pass at him, because we were watching Meet the Press, and I was trying to explain how much of a douchebag Joe Biden is.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:58 AM
horizontal rule
249

Oh, so that's why you wanted the bankruptcy bill information! We probably could have found a source that explains it in terms of expanding the already-ludicrous amount of paperwork doctors have to deal with.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 11:00 AM
horizontal rule
250

re: 246

Yeah, I wondered if the hamster would be OK with all the noise.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 11:01 AM
horizontal rule
251

Wasted opportunity, man. Seriously, I was on the "he's not that interested" bench before, but inviting you over to help him move stuff around his apartment is very promising, and makes it sound much more like he's just too shy/unaggressive to make the move. If you're interested, you're going to have to go for it at some point.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 11:04 AM
horizontal rule
252

247:

arm s/b butt


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 11:04 AM
horizontal rule
253

Dunno from hamsters, but mice have pretty sensitive hearing, and can hear sounds above our pitch range, so I can't imagine loud music would be fun for them. I'm willing to assume hamsters are pretty similar.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 11:06 AM
horizontal rule