Re: Lesbians and obesity risk

1

The male gaze: now with health benefits.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:19 PM
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Very nice, ogged.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:21 PM
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"male gaze" s/b "penis"


Posted by: My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:21 PM
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A former girlfriend felt the need to read lesbian poetry aloud. Much discussion of "generous thighs".


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:21 PM
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5

Did they correct for the confounding factor of "bed death"?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:26 PM
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"Lesbian Bed Death" is an awesome phrase, and should be the name of my band. Oddly, I think I know enough musicians whose exes are lesbians so that we could have a respectable theme supergroup.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:36 PM
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it's due to the lack of calories expended on shaving their legs.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:36 PM
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8

Correllation, causation, etc.


Posted by: neil | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:38 PM
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9

Hmm. Are straight guys more likely to be pudgy than gay guys?

The female gaze: fattening.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:40 PM
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10

Wait, that doesn't make sense. I've never known any women who thought gay guys were less attractive than straight guys.


Posted by: neil | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:41 PM
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11

See, the male gaze even works its health-bringing magic on men!


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:42 PM
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Dear American Journal of Public Health:

I never thought I would be writing to you, but when I attended a public health convention to present a recent epidemiological study to an audience of my peers and colleagues....


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:42 PM
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They have the lowest HIV infection rate, though.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:43 PM
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14

Thin lesbians secretly want me.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:44 PM
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11: True. It's made me go to they gym, for example.


Posted by: DaveB | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:45 PM
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14: Those restraining orders? A pathetic attempt at denial.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:45 PM
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17

Or so the mullahs would have you believe.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:45 PM
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18

7 to 9


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:48 PM
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I secretly want thin lesbians. But they're all "Wow, it's so great to see you! I'm about to meet up with my super-hot obese girlfriend!" and I'm like, wah.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:48 PM
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10: No, no, not female preferences. Literally the gaze. We look at the men, we look at the women, they gain ten pounds. Sorta like Superman gaining energy from Earth's yellow sun.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:49 PM
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21

But ogged is very thin.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:50 PM
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21: IYKWIMAITYD.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:51 PM
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Women apparently looked at me about forty pounds worth, and what did I get with it? Nothing.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:52 PM
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They have the lowest HIV infection rate, though.

HIV can be very slimming.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:55 PM
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20 - So what you're saying is that women have recreated this guy's ray gun? Typical woman - waving a ray gun around is the best part!


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:57 PM
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24 is funny.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 3:58 PM
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27

Hey, did you guys see the New York Times article about Long Duck Dongs? Some of the better features of the article:

To test her hypothesis, Dr. Brennan plans to team up with a biomechanics expert to build a transparent model of a female duck. She wants to see exactly what a duck phallus does during mating.

and

Dr. McCracken, who discovered the longest known bird phallus on an Argentine duck in 2001, is struck by the fact that it was a woman who discovered the complexity of female birds. "Maybe it's the male bias we all have," he said. "It's just been out there, waiting to be discovered."


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 4:00 PM
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Hey, did you guys see the New York Times article about Long Duck Dongs?

A well-known Thai delicacy.


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 4:04 PM
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Dr. McCracken

First name, 'Phil'?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 4:08 PM
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Hardly anything is known about how the phallus waxes and wanes -- not to mention why.


Posted by: neil | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 4:13 PM
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Wait, ducks don't just have cloacae?


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 4:22 PM
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32

6: Russell Simmons' Lesbian Bed Def and hire a sitarist.


Posted by: Beefo Meaty | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 4:32 PM
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33

lesbians: 2.69 times more likely to give their actual weight in a survey?


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 4:38 PM
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Hah! I hadn't thought of that, but wouldn't be half surprised.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 4:39 PM
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Russell Simmons' Lesbian Bed Def

I'm totally appropriating this the next time I need to be witty for my lesbian friends. I'm taking credit, too.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 5:01 PM
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32: sitarist s/b satirist ?


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 5:31 PM
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37

I'm confused -- on the porn sites, the lesbians look just like the straight women. They're all pretty slim. This study flatly finding contradicts all known anecdotal evidence!


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 5:33 PM
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38

Hi everybody!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 5:38 PM
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39

How many, Teo?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 5:39 PM
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None.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 5:42 PM
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37: That's the MSM for you. I'm sure there's a noted gay activist who can sort it all out for us.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 5:42 PM
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42

Were these women you were pursuing a bit heavier than average?


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 5:44 PM
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43

None.

[Tears.]


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 5:45 PM
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44

I know. Sorry to let you all down.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 5:51 PM
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45

Don't worry, teo. This ought to get you back on the horse.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 5:53 PM
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46

Will no one rid us of this turbulent virginity?


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 5:54 PM
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47

Awesome, mcmc. That's probably it.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 5:55 PM
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48

Full story here, btw.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 5:59 PM
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49

Hey guys, you can have a lot of fun at a social gathering without sex necessarily breaking out.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:00 PM
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45: I actually love all that pick-up advice, now that I think about it, because I've always loved (and doubted) the strong form of the homosociality/"men's relations to women are primarily about creating and cementing relations among men" argument. It makes me happy when a nice, old-school, early Gayle Rubin, reductionist hypothesis still holds true in These Postmodern Times. Next up, nostalgia for Reagan!


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:00 PM
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51

Sullivan agrees with ogged!

My hunch is that without shallow, physically-oriented men to appeal to, many lesbians feel even less need to stay in shape than many straight women do. Put that together with the obesity epidemic that affects everyone and you have a serious health issue. That no one is allowed to talk about.

Posted by: | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:03 PM
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Oh man, obesity among lesbians because there aren't men around to keep them fit. That's one of our most serious health issues, just behind abortion-induced breast cancer and the shafting that men get from their health plans because they don't get all those expensive tests paid for every year like women do.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:05 PM
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53

Teo, did you at least flirt a bit?


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:05 PM
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54

51 was me. And I was sure that #49 would lead to this. Which I love. Especially the hat.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:06 PM
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54: you don't have to take your clothes off, but you'd best have some booze


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:10 PM
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Wait a minute, wasn't this study in a recognized public health journal? What does Sullivan mean, no one is allowed to talk about it?

Data point: I have actually heard, on a handful of occasions, gay women express the belief that being (extremely) fat is not unhealthy. I don't recall the exact wording, but it was definitely implied that men were to blame for straight women's lack of comfort with so-called fat acceptance.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:12 PM
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The video in 49 is SOOOOO much better than some boring Bobby Brown knockoff. As if.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:12 PM
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55: Cherry wine, dude.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:17 PM
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53: Yes, I did, but flirting per se hasn't really been the problem.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:19 PM
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60

Was the flirting fun?


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:21 PM
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61

I've heard the pro-fat line as well, which has a grain of truth beneath its lardy exterior. Just as an initial intuition, I'd be surprised if this effect were entirely explained by self-report discrepancy.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:22 PM
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62

60: Yes.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:23 PM
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63

Teo, I think it's cool that you discovered two important facts: you're not very into Girl 2, and you're interested in enough to try to continue to stay in touch with Girl 1.

It may not have gone as planned, but I think you made progress in a related way. (emoticon would have been included here if not for ban)


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:24 PM
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64

Teo, I'm not going to offer you any advice. I'm just glad you enjoyed the flirting.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:26 PM
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63: I agree, which is why I'm not too upset about the way things turned out.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:26 PM
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64: Um, okay. Thanks.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:27 PM
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58: Sherry wine.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:29 PM
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68

You people disgust me. Teo, you failed. You can't come to a silver lining, you know.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:30 PM
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69

Ogged, if you find me two or three girls we can try again.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:31 PM
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70

Hey, at least Girl 1 didn't say she's moving to Sweden.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:32 PM
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71

I'm not a pimp, just some unsympathetic guy on the internet.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:32 PM
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72

71 should so be the new alt text.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:33 PM
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70: She is, however, spending the summer in China. She leaves on Wednesday.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:34 PM
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Yeoch.

Is it China-with-Internet-access, or no?


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:37 PM
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75

I assume yes, but I'm not totally sure.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:38 PM
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56, 61: It's true; being fat in and of itself is not unhealthy. (Which means Ogged is wrong. Bonus!) Fatness can be a risk factor for other things that *are* unhealthy, but it's not the same thing. And for that matter, dieting or thinness can be a risk factor for illness too--bone density, anyone?

I'd be surprised if lesbians were any fatter, on average, than men. Which means it isn't the male gaze or lack thereof: it's being American. Since straight chicks aren't really human, as we all know, they can't be fully American and therefore aren't allowed to eat the same way everyone else does.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:38 PM
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I hadn't been aware that you were already comfortable flirting. Maybe next you can enjoy being forward.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:38 PM
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78

You can find a link to the obese lesbians article here, and maybe get to it if you're at an academic computer.

I don't think it's much of a paper. It is based on self-reported data (from face-to-face interviews, though, which are more reliable than telephone interviews or impersonal questionnaires), and it concerns the population most affected by the male gaze (age 20-44). It actually doesn't address the issue of lesbians being less self-conscious and therefore more likely to be honest about their overweightitude.

It does make it clear that although lesbians were more likely than others to be overweight, women who reported themselves as "bisexual" or "other" rather than "heterosexual" or "lesbian" were all similar. They don't speculate as to what "other" means, but if it means women who have no interest in sex at all, then they should be similarly unaffected by the male gaze.

"Black" and "Hispanic" women were also more than twice as likely to be obese as "white" and "white non-Hispanic" women, but I guess that result was no surprise.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:39 PM
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Chin up, teo. You're almost there; you just have to learn when to start making-out.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:40 PM
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This is unclear: women who reported themselves as "bisexual" or "other" rather than "heterosexual" or "lesbian" were all similar.

What I mean is that the difference between "heterosexual", "bisexual" and "other" was insignificant, but the difference between "lesbian" and all the others was large.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:41 PM
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Hold on, are you going to see this Girl 1 before she goes to China?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:41 PM
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you just have to learn when to start making-out.

Yes, exactly. It's not at all clear to me how that's going to happen, though.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:42 PM
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83

81: No.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:42 PM
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84

B, I was noting the fat/fit thing before you even had a damn blog.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:43 PM
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85

Why is it that everyone's willing to defer to Ogged's tender sensibilities when it comes to emoticons, yet all his other bans get treated with the proper disrespect?


Posted by: Magpie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:50 PM
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84: So I see. I assume, then, that your current constant harping about weight and fitness is just another way of trying to annoy me.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:51 PM
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I don't think the emoticon rule is mine, Magpie, which might be why people stick to it.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:54 PM
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Are you telling me, B, that all those fat lesbians are among that small slice of the population which is fat and fit? Fat is a proxy, but it's not a bad proxy.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:55 PM
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85: Because we all fancy ourrselves intellectuals, and therefore above such plebeian affectations as emoticons.

Also I kinda agree with the analogy ban.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:56 PM
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'Cause it's my rule, and while people don't defer to Xerxes here, they listen to me! Sometimes. At least about emoticons.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:56 PM
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88: I am making no such ridiculous claim and you know it. However, most of the bulldykes I know could probably pound your skinny ass into the pavement.

Anyway, it *is* a bad proxy, inasmuch as it perpetuates bad things. So there.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:58 PM
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92

Nyah.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:59 PM
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93

It's true; being fat in and of itself is not unhealthy.

Yes, sometimes people are really fat and yet healthy. Some people also manage to smoke for 50 years without getting cancer. But for most people, carrying around 40 extra pounds of fat does in fact have health consequences.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 6:59 PM
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I'd say that fatness is a reasonable proxy for health, if you're measuring percentages of body fat.

But just by looking at someone? Trouble is, our sense of what's normal is so skewed by fashion that people think that anything over a size 0 is unhealthy. And it's definitely true that being thin isn't a good proxy for health at all.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:00 PM
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91, 92: Get a room.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:00 PM
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92: Comity!


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:00 PM
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97

Get a room.

It's not that eas...oh wait, why am I telling you?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:01 PM
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98

Nah, getting the room is the easy part.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:03 PM
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97: Nah, getting the room is the easy part.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:06 PM
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100

Geez, and people think *I'm* a bitch.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:06 PM
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97: but it's b-- oh, wait, why am I saying this?


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:06 PM
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97: but it's b-- oh, wait, why am I saying this?


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:07 PM
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103

That was weird.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:10 PM
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104

I think an important question here is whether it is okay to have sex with the healthy fat girls.


Posted by: Jimmy | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:11 PM
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105

Because you're trying to challenge Ogged for the bitchiest non-me comment today?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:11 PM
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106

Sullivan's swim blogging? If we don't have the market cornered on swimming and gayness, what do we have?


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:14 PM
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61: I doubt if the difference is entirely down to honest/dishonest self-reporting, but I bet it's part of it. Of course if lesbians are more honest because there's less of a stigma attached to obesity among lesbians, then probably a higher percentage will be overweight, along with the higher percentage reporting accurately.

I know I always lie about my weight when self-reporting.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:14 PM
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I've always wondered by how much one could lie when asked for your weight at the DMV. They never seem to challenge the number you give them. At what point do they whip out a scale? Could you lie by 10 pounds? 20? 50?


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:17 PM
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106: My gawd. I saw that and missed the significance. The Atlantic is clearly attempting to move into Unfogged's space.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:18 PM
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104. Teo could try that. "You don't sweat much for a fat girl" usually works, but only if there not, you know, a lesbian.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:21 PM
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110. they're, not there. My 3rd grade grammar teacher spins in her grave yet again.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:22 PM
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My driver's license says I weigh 135 pounds.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:23 PM
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113

My driver's license says I'm a man.


Posted by: B's Obgyn | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:23 PM
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There not, you know, a lesbian;
there lost, and lost, and lost again.
There cursing, stumbling, sweating foul --
There wiping on a dirty towel.


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:25 PM
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113: I'm pretty sure you can change those documents more easily than you can change your plumbing. I mean, after all, they don't even check your weight.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:26 PM
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116

I didn't lie, of course; that's just what I weighed when I first got a license at age 15 and I've never bothered to change it.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:27 PM
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115: But with less opportunity for learning, or wine.


Posted by: Beefo Meaty | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:29 PM
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118

So does anyone have any advice on what I should say to Girl 1?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:34 PM
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119

118. You haven't said if she is fat, or a lesbian, or both. Makes a difference on your approach.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:36 PM
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118 -- didn't you click the link to the advice about what to say to Girl 1?


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:37 PM
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118: Just tell her what you said to us: it was your weight when you were 15, and you haven't gotten your liscence updated.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:42 PM
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As for fat and fit, I think Robertson Davies quotes Paracelsus on the comparable healthiness of the man who can lift 500 pounds and the man who can lift only 50.

As for drivers' licenses, I once received one that said I was slightly over one foot tall.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:42 PM
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119: She is neither fat nor a lesbian.

120: If you mean the link in 45, then yes. Yes I did.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:50 PM
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124

Did you not find it helpful?


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:53 PM
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125

That was the implication I was making, yes.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:54 PM
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126

Are you just trying to keep communication open or do you have a particular content that you want to deliver?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:55 PM
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127

That's what I'm trying to decide.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:56 PM
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128

I suppose just keeping communication open is the easiest way to go, but in some ways that's just kicking the can down the road some more. Plus if it turns out she doesn't have internet access in China then it'll be another couple months before anything can continue.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:59 PM
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129

Dear Girl #1: Bitches ain't nuthin but hos and tricks.

Teo, please don't be a tool and tell her about how much you like her before she leaves for a long time.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 7:59 PM
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130

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to avoid. But I'd still like to say something.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:01 PM
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131

There's absolutely nothing wrong with weighing 135 pounds.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:05 PM
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132

You could ask her if she will have internet access in China and just say you want to stay in touch.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:07 PM
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133

Weight a minute. Is 135 supposed to be too fat? Ouch. Only among the 20 year olds. This is just another reason to avoid twenty-somethings.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:07 PM
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134

Universal Rule #957: Any situation that involves one person writing a multi-page letter proclaiming his/her undying love for another will not end well.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:08 PM
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135

Why not just wish her a great trip and tell her that you'd like to stay in touch (in a not too pathetic manner)?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:08 PM
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134:

What are you doing?

He should write a multi-page letter and post it here for us to read.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:10 PM
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137

You know, if Mary Cheney were fatter we could combine this thread with the one above it.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:10 PM
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138

134. "Do right and fear no man. Don't write and fear no woman." Advice from my grandfather.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:10 PM
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139

"I'd like to stay in touch. And I have a hard time getting laid. Enjoy China!"


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:12 PM
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140

Any sort of communiqué will work as long as it begins with "What up, dawg" and ends with "Keep it real, yo". The trick is to be light 'n' breezy.


Posted by: OPINIONATED GRANDMA | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:12 PM
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141

Maybe I'm not so up to date on communication technologies, but I don't think any form of contact with her from China will affect the virginity situation.


Posted by: Jimmy | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:13 PM
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142

Unrelated: PBS has a very good program on Mormans on right now.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:13 PM
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143

MorMONS. And crap, despite all the forewarning, I still failed to ask my honey to TiVo that program.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:15 PM
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144

FYI: I have a friend in Shanghai right now, and his internet is quite spotty.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:15 PM
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145

sorry. quick spellin. My best friend is a MorMON so I should have gotten it correct.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:16 PM
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146

It's a wonder it doesn't have SARS.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:16 PM
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147

Just please don't decide to wait for Girl 1 to come back before pursuing other girls. Bad idea.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:17 PM
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Becks is correct. Pursuing other girls is the best way to make more girls flock to you.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:18 PM
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149

Oh, I'm an idiot. I just left all sorts of advice on your site, and missed that Girl 1 (can we call her Una?) is leaving for China. Yeah, all you can do then is keep up with the chatty emails, and if she doesn't have email then paper mail, and think about it again when she gets home.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:19 PM
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143 - Don't worry. They're rerunning it later this week. They're doing a marathon from 12:30 AM - 4:40 AM on May 3.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:19 PM
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151

132 and 135 sound good as ways to approach this, and I'll probably go with something like that.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:21 PM
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152

Thanks, Becks!


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:21 PM
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153

Do NOT get involved in a long-distance relationship at this point, Teo. Seriously, please, be careful about this.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:22 PM
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154

How long is she in China for? Six weeks, six months, indefinitely?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:24 PM
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155

Don't worry, folks, I have no plans to turn this into a long-distance relationship, and am already weighing my options around here.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:24 PM
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156

154: Summer break. Two or three months, I guess; I don't know exactly how long they have.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:25 PM
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157

You know, weigh your options locally, don't get into anything long distance relationshippy, but you could do worse than tell her that you'd love to get together and hear all her China stories when she gets back. How could it hurt?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:30 PM
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158

It couldn't hurt, but I have no idea where I'll be when she gets back from China so I'm a little hesitant to make plans like that.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:33 PM
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159

"You know, weigh your options locally"

lizardbreath:

Teofilo shouldnt look for the skinniest girl.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:34 PM
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160

I knew someone was going to say something like that.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:35 PM
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Teo, if she is living close enough that you can see her in person, you should go try to make out with her. If not, then you should go to a bar and approach women, saying that their daddies must be drug dealers, etc.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:55 PM
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She is not living close enough for that. I'll keep the bar idea in mind.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:57 PM
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163

It's a very good idea to make out with her before she goes to China. It's a very bad idea to have a conversation with her about how much you like her before she goes to China. It's a very good idea to go to a bar after she goes to China and talk to women there. It's a very good idea to purchase aviator sunglasses from a walgreens or cvs, etc.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:58 PM
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164

163 before reading 162, natch. I would not have any sort of "I like you so much" conversation. If you want to keep in touch with her, plan silently to do that.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:59 PM
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165

It's a very good idea to purchase aviator sunglasses from a walgreens or cvs, etc.

With a mustache.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 8:59 PM
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166

Can't I at least try to find out if I'll be able to keep in touch with her while she's in China?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:00 PM
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167

It's a very good idea to purchase aviator sunglasses, grow a mustache, and wear 1970's basketball shorts.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:01 PM
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168

What if I just say something like "it was great seeing you this weekend; have fun in China"?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:03 PM
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169

It's because they're dope.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:04 PM
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170

167: A traveling mustache, I'd hope.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:05 PM
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171

168 is fine. But you've got to end it with one of these:

;))))))))xxoxxoxxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:05 PM
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172

Calabat in five, four,...


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:07 PM
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173

I thought that was Standpipe's rule.

hmmm.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:08 PM
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174

170 - But of course!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:08 PM
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175

I personally like x's and o's.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:09 PM
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176

I thought it was mine first. I'm pretty sure the pastries were.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:09 PM
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170: I just meant that it was really NOT a good idea. See text's original exposition of the negating power of the moustache here.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:10 PM
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178

Hi, BG. Any news on your romantic dilemma?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:13 PM
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179

travelling mustache.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:14 PM
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180

them was the good old days. no, but it really is a good idea.

Cala, it was probably your rule first, but it's such a fine rule, it seems as though each one of us propogated it in our dreams.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:15 PM
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181

175: Shall we play tic-tac-toe?


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:16 PM
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182

Can I go first?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:17 PM
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183
  |  |  
========
  |  |  
========
  |  |

Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:18 PM
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184

X


Posted by: OPINIONATED GRANDMA | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:18 PM
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185

I pick the middle square of the middle row.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:19 PM
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186

O


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:19 PM
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187

We are the Unfoggedtariat. Our rule is legion. As are our pastries. And cockjokes.

[o][ ] [ ]
[ ] [ ] [ ]
[ ] [ ] [ ]


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:19 PM
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188

Okay, I sent her a message along the lines of 168.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:20 PM
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189
 X |   |  
===========
   | O |  
===========
   |   |

Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:20 PM
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190

I pick the upper right.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:21 PM
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191

188: Did you remember the Xs and Os?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:22 PM
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192

This is almost as fun as the 8-bit Nintendo version of Win, Lose or Draw.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:23 PM
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193

X | | O
===========
| O |
===========
X | |

Chris Hitchens is on the Daily Show.


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:23 PM
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194

You think I would forget?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:23 PM
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195

Er,


X | | O
===========
| O |
===========
X | |

Chris Hitchens is on the Daily Show.


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:24 PM
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196

Are you staying in Teoville for the summer, or what? You definitely don't want to put all your eggs in one basket heading to China. Perhaps visits to nearby metro area would help.


Posted by: X. Trapnel | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:24 PM
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197

Left, center row.

THIS BETTER NOT END IN STALE MATE.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:24 PM
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198
 X |   | O 
===========
 O | O |  
===========
 X |   | X

Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:26 PM
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199

Our tic-tac-toe game is representational of Teo's lovelife.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:26 PM
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200

"is representational of"?


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:26 PM
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196: I will be going to home to Albuquerque at the beginning of June and staying there for an as-yet-undetermined period of time.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:27 PM
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202

D'oh!


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:27 PM
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203

Here come the TIE fighters!!

|-o-| |-o-|
``` ````

Oh, no, it's Darth Vader!

(-o-)

There goes the tictactoe board!
xoxo||====|x|o||x====....[crash]


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:27 PM
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204

Aw, Clowny, that's so nice!

Center, top row!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:28 PM
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205

Heebie, your mistake was starting in the center. Everyone knows you should start in a corner. (Well, really, everyone knows that there's no point in playing t-t-t.)


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:30 PM
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206
 X | O | O 
===========
 O | O |  
===========
 X | X | X

Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:30 PM
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207

I'm only putting up with this if it ends in global thermonuclear war.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:30 PM
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208

(How come "Center top row"? You could totally have forced me to forfeit by playing "center bottom row".)


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:31 PM
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209

207: You mean tic-tac-toe, or my lovelife?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:31 PM
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210

DANG! Anyone wanna play yes or no?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:31 PM
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211

201: right. Well, hrm. Shouldn't the last month of school be reasonably bacchanalian? Christ, it even was at UChicago.


Posted by: X. Trapnel | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:32 PM
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212

I believe that in that other thread, they're playing hopscotch.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:32 PM
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213

208 - well, you were handing me an easy win in 198, and that seemed so nice that I thought I'd respond in kind.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:33 PM
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214

211: I'm hoping so, but I don't see a whole lot of evidence for that.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:33 PM
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215

Spin the bottle?


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:34 PM
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216

214: I dunno. Frat parties? Apartment parties? Departmental happy hours? Events with alcohol, is what I'm saying. Find them, hope for the best.


Posted by: X. Trapnel | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:35 PM
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217

178: Hi teo! It's promising. Yesterday in church I was sitting in an empty pew, and John came up behind me and put his hand on the small of my back, almost on the side of my rib. Many asides were whispered in my ear, and he he requested that I jab him if he fell asleep.

He invited me to see whether I could help him with a shelf in his apartment and to show me the place and to watch Meet the Press. He also solicited my thought on decorating and floors. Nothing happened, partly because I was sitting on the floor in a skirt next to the fireplace, but I don't need to rush things. John's not going anywhere.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:36 PM
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218

Sure, there'll be parties, but if I liked going to frat parties I probably would have gotten laid a long time ago.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:38 PM
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219

I hereby declare a moratorium on teo's love life.

I mean on discussions thereof.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:39 PM
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220

217: Glad to hear it.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:40 PM
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221

It's a good thing nobody listens to ben.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:40 PM
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222

Maybe Ben has some news for us. Go on Ben, what would you like to tell us about your love life?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:41 PM
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223

Despite what I said in 218, I'm actually pretty optimistic about my chances in the next month. We'll see how it turns out.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:41 PM
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224

218: but as the year winds down, perhaps others who wouldn't otherwise go to such things will, which may somewhat change their character. Really, apartment parties thrown by people you vaguely know are your best bet. And isn't there a "senior week"? That shit is golden: what happens in senior week stays in senior week, or something.


Posted by: X. Trapnel | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:42 PM
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225

It's extremely vexed.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:42 PM
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226

YES


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:42 PM
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227

wait


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:44 PM
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228

YES


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:44 PM
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229

Sounds vexxxy!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:44 PM
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230

It was no, wasn't it?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:45 PM
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231

but as the year winds down, perhaps others who wouldn't otherwise go to such things will, which may somewhat change their character

Knowing this school, I find this highly unlikely. Senior week should be good, though.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:45 PM
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232

"extremely vexed" s/b "over-vexed"


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:46 PM
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233

Oh! You win!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:46 PM
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234

awesome! ok, your turn.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:47 PM
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235

I never knew anything new to come out of senior week. It was mostly doing extra-fun things with people who were already friends.

When I finished my MA, my roommates and I held our own senior week, with more us-specific activities, and that was also delightful, but it didn't serve as an opportunity to get new relationships happening. Too much pressure?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:48 PM
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236

No!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:48 PM
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237

[Incidentally: any sociologist-types know if that 'strength of weak ties' finding applies to sex partners as it apparently does to job-seekers? Seems like it very much would.]


Posted by: X. Trapnel | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:48 PM
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238

236 -> 5


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:49 PM
horizontal rule
239

Sorry, that wasn't it. Try again?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:50 PM
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240

Yes?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:50 PM
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241

235: Hrmph. You're not helping, AWB! Even if you're "right" and I'm "wrong," this is one of those situations where Teo could create his own reality through sheer force of belief, while we in the "reality-based community" would be left studying the results. Whose side are you on?


Posted by: X. Trapnel | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:52 PM
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242

nope, not it either.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:52 PM
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243

Yes it was.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:54 PM
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244

It was mostly doing extra-fun things with people who were already friends.

This could be easily tweaked to serve my purposes, I think.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:54 PM
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245

Eh. Friends of mine and I used to drink at a lesbian bar and I don't recall the patrons being any more obese than the average. But the music--oh, God--that's what finally drove us off. Lesbians are very unfunky. Enough with the acoustic singer-songwriters, ok?


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:55 PM
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246

This Yes/No thing reminds me of a time in high school where the drama club from my high school and the drama club from the boys' high school got together for a retreat. For one of the exercises, we had to get up in front of everyone in boy/girl pairs and one of us was assigned the word "yes" and one of us was assigned the word "no". Each person had to imagine a motivation and wasn't allowed to tell their partner and you had to try to persuade the other person and create a scene by just repeating your word over and over in different tones.

I was partnered with this guy I'd never met before and we had a totally intense scene. People were transfixed. We completely Shared A Moment. It was probably the hottest thing of my young life to that point. When the drama instructor finally broke the scene, she asked us what our motivations had been. I forget what mine was but he said that he was picturing us a married couple and he was trying to talk me out of having an abortion and murdering our innocent unborn baby.

Mood: gone.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:56 PM
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247

What's "senior week"? I didn't have a "senior week".


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:57 PM
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248

246 -- there was a similar game to that on "Whose Line is it Anyway".


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:58 PM
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249

(Except without the unborn-baby stuff)


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:59 PM
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250

It's the week between the end of exams and Commencement.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:59 PM
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251

[Incidentally: any sociologist-types know if that 'strength of weak ties' finding applies to sex partners as it apparently does to job-seekers? Seems like it very much would.]

It's a bit more complicated, but very interesting.


Posted by: Kieran | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 9:59 PM
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252

ok, it was yes.

feel free to murder our unborn baby.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:01 PM
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253

250: That's the week I started my new job. No one told me!

Jerks.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:01 PM
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254

Nope, we have commencement the day after the last finals occur. Yep, that means the people there aren't positive they're going to graduate or not.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:01 PM
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255

I have never been a senior -- I graduated college a year early, and I dropped out of college after my second year there. So I have never had a senior week, or even a senior moment.


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:01 PM
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256

Round here the University sponsors all sorts of stupid (and expensive) activities to keep people from drinking during Senior Week. It doesn't work.

It's a lot like Orientation, actually, but at the other end.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:03 PM
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257

"It's a lot like Orientation, actually, but at the other end."

Save these lines for the bar scene.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:04 PM
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258

Though I should say, as the lead author of the paper points out in the comments on that thread, the scope conditions of its finding are pretty strong, because it's a highschool. For broader populations, there's this.


Posted by: Kieran Healy | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:04 PM
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259

251: thanks--I remember reading (and loving!) that paper when you first posted about it ... but I don't recall their being much claim that this structure held true of adult sexual networks in the "real world." Has there been much other stuff on adults to test this? I suppose high school kids are nicely captive.


Posted by: X. Trapnel | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:05 PM
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260

Our made-up senior week was fun. We had a spa day where we bought a bunch of spa supplies, used them on each other, drank wine, and watched semi-erotic films in our bathrobes all day. Another day, we went to Cedar Point. One night, we drank whiskey and looked at the stars under this huge geodesic dome outside Cleveland.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:06 PM
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261

We had a spa day where we bought a bunch of spa supplies, used them on each other, drank wine, and watched semi-erotic films in our bathrobes all day.

Yep, just a little bit of tweaking...


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:07 PM
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262

Wow, a senior week would have been nice. It was kind of anticlimactic having the entire undergraduate apparatus shut down and the dorms evacuated two days after finals week ended.

Only about a quarter of the people I know went to commencement anyway. The diploma came in the mail.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:08 PM
horizontal rule
263

I couldn't figure out what the practical difference was between the core infection model and the inverse core model.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:08 PM
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264

pwned, sigh.


Posted by: X. Trapnel | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:10 PM
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265

Ned: How can they tell if people have the grades to graduate, then?


Posted by: the Other Paul | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:12 PM
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266

At my college, instead of a senior week, they just had a parade, every day. Instead of grades, they had a parade. Instead of teachers, they had the men with batons.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:17 PM
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267

we bought a bunch of spa supplies, used them on each other, drank wine, and watched semi-erotic films in our bathrobes all day.

Um. Yeah. This sounds like every January where I went to college. (Our Januarys were supposed to be devoted to "discovering ourselves.")


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:17 PM
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268

But the music--oh, God--that's what finally drove us off.

There's one stereotype that has been painfully confirmed for me time and again. Nobody touches their music when it comes to o-earnestness. It makes Christian rock look like Eugene Chadbourne.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-30-07 10:40 PM
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269

re: 268

Bad emo is of the same ilk.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05- 1-07 12:40 AM
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self-reporting differences seem plausible to me, esp. as the authors in the link do not indicate how large is the gap between the self-reported numbers for the various groups. Women who identify as heterosexual would only need to be slightly more embarrassed about their weight than women who identify as lesbians to produce drastic gaps in the numbers of 'overweight' lesbians vs. heterosexual women. If, e.g. the 'overweight' category for a certain height begins at 140, we need only imagine that heterosexual women who weigh 140 are more apt to lie by a pound or two & that would produce misleadingly high gaps between the number of het vs lesbian 'overweight' people. I can easily imagine many people know thinking '140 sounds a lot higher than 138' and fudging the difference. So, from all the link says, it may be 1) the average difference SELF-REPORTED differences between heterosexual and lesbian identified participants is something like two pounds, and/or 2) differences in self-reported numbers can be explained by differences in willingness to be honest about one's weight to complete strangers.


Posted by: 110LBlesbian | Link to this comment | 05- 1-07 6:28 AM
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She wrote back to ask for my mailing address so she can send me postcards.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 05- 1-07 10:30 AM
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Yay!


Posted by: the Other Paul | Link to this comment | 05- 1-07 11:58 AM
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Nice! That seems like a good sign.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 05- 1-07 11:59 AM
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Yes; except for, the public nature of the postcard means she won't have the privacy necessary for investigating her deepest, most secret feelings for our Teo.


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 05- 1-07 12:07 PM
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