Offer to do something nice for them "after work," sometime later this week. "Hey, find me in my office on Friday afternoon, and I'll buy you a beer."
I'd imagine that would offer all sorts of opportunities for comedy, but maybe only if it was someone you were willing to be mean to.
I always think "Can they just get it over with?" And hope the firee sees it coming and realizes it's not working out, and doesn't desperately need the job.
If s/he hasn't figured it out by now, s/he probably won't figure it out by the end of the day.
That sucks. Nothing to be done, though. Per #2, meeting up with that person after the fact, sometime down the road, probably isn't the worst idea in the world. I wouldn't pre-suggest it, though.
Get to work, Labs, Ogged is going to fire you!!
S/he is genuinely clueless in almost all respects, to the point that I wonder if we're dealing with a nameable cognitive deficiency. They hired this person while I was out last year and I have no idea what they were thinking. But the company is achingly nice about letting people go, and is going to offer one month's severance, if s/he wants to resign. But it's that knowing something about someone that they don't know themselves that feels bad.
last year
Oh. I thought it was like "since last Monday..."
8: Isn't it ironic? Don't you think?
It's kinda like rain on your wedding day.
It is a bit weird that this age of technology means that IT folks are often the first to have an inkling of personnel changes.
Someone was just telling me that she always knew when mass layoffs at her place were coming, because her friend's husband the network administrator would be working very late.
6: SCMT: Too nice. Arthegall: Too mean. Arthegall wins.
Offer to do something nice for them "after work," sometime later this week.
Nice. If he returns with a shotgun, maybe you'll be spared.
When my law firm fired "my" secretary (who was actuall a shareholder's secretary whom I was also assigned to), I went & hid on another floor. I don't do confrontational embarrassment very well.
(She was out a LOT with headaches & other complaints, and not terribly into doing much for anyone -- thankfully I can type my own stuff -- but still.)
To take your mind off the firing thing, look at this picture and then realize that you have no idea what's on the back of your chair right now.
What a tiny chicken! Cute! Is it real?
16: haha! I am on a stool. Foiled!
Uh... fine, you don't know what's on the underside of the stool seat.
Feeling around, not much. I will endeavor to find a spider to plant there.
15: I know this is just my own paranoia because not only am I a union secretary but I was granted a good look at performance review materials and they were all super-duper, but: did anyone say to her "so, I notice that you miss work all the time and you don't really do much when you're here; what's up with that?" or was it just a few mistakes and then the axe? Also, what is "out a LOT"? I'd say I call in sick once every couple of months (but then, I don't take vacations). And I sometimes snap at people a tiny bit when I'm in the middle of a grant submission and they bug me about something. So out in the corporate world, what does one have to do before getting fired?
I don't think a spider plant would get enough light. Try gum.
I always check the underside of my stool.
Ew, my stool sample came back full of spiders.
My spider sample came back full of stools.
Or: My god, it's full of stools!
My hovercraft is full of stool-spiders.
Damn you, Beefo Meaty, and your stool-feeling sangfroid!
But have you checked your ears for spiders?
So out in the corporate world, what does one have to do before getting fired?
As near as I can tell, it's actually pretty damn hard to get fired from any sort of professional job. The six people I know who got fired, a) got in a physical altercation with a security guard, b) stole cheesburgers from the cafeteria, twice!, c) did absolutely nothing for weeks on end, d) also did absolutely nothing for weeks on end, e) grievously irritated half of the team they were trying to hire, f) did their job with absolutely no attention to anything resembling detail.
Salespeople get fired all the time for not meeting quota, though. But that's different.
"trying to hire" s/b "hired to manage"
Ogged, you work with Lileks? Who knew?
Twice in the last year my evaluation of someone has directly led to their getting fired. Knowing that they're going to get fired is bad; knowing that you're the cause of it, even if it was an honest evaluation, is very bad.
A student I mentored put me down as a recommendee. It was one of those stars-aligned situation where she had to name people without asking them ahead of time. I can't in good conscience write a recommendation for her. I really feel like I'm in an awful spot.
I think it's one of those damning-with-faint-praise. I will certainly praise how early she started on her thesis.
Heebie, is this an instance where you can rely on expectations adjusted by recommendation-inflation to do your dirty work for you? As in, no one who isn't "ovaries-shatteringly dynamic and a virtuoso intellect" will get hired, so you just put down "a good listener".
Heebie, an experienced friend says that there is a code. "Bold and original" means "nut case", for example. "Always remembers to bring a sharpened pencil" and "remarkably good, yet unobtrusive, hygiene".
Also, carp and eels.
I honestly don't have a good feel for the situation. It's a second-tier state school, and I forget if she's applying for the masters or phd program.
The real problem is, she triggers my contempt and disgust buttons because she's so utterly failing to be introspective at all. She's a C student who believes herself to be a capable mathmatician and has ignored all of her professors explicitly telling her that she's not cut out for grad school.
Dear Graduate Program,
Student X is easily in the upper 75 percent of her class in hygiene. Most days, people sit around her without incident.
Sincerely,
Dr. Geebie
32: I was fired from an alternative weekly for insubordination. High point of my career, needless to say.
43
If you have explicitly told her she isn't cut out for graduate school I don't see why you would feel very bad about giving an honest evaluation.
Mostly because it's scary to shape someone's future like that.
If she went, and failed out, then my conscience is free, even though its a worse road for everyone else, (probably). But to preemptively assert that it's likely she'll crash and burn seems so...like I'm denying her the possibility of growing and becoming something she's not, currently. Objectively the spot should go to someone more deserving. But it feels god-like to smush someone's deluded, pathetic dreams.
Diligent, without other qualifiers, can do the trick. Persistent, if you want to send a stronger signal.
If she isnt that smart, she shouldnt realize that you are not complimenting her.
"once she determines her position, she never changes her mind."
47
Why make predictions? Just say out of x math majors in the last y years she would rank about z. Her strong points are ... . Her weak points are ... .
And how good do you have to be for a master's program in a second-tier state school anyway?
21: did anyone say to her "so, I notice that you miss work all the time and you don't really do much when you're here; what's up with that?"
Yah, the HR guy came over & put her "on notice," & she tightened up for a while, but then started missing again, which went on longer than I'd've guessed it would.
what is "out a LOT"?
A week that she wasn't out a day or more was a rare week indeed.
But the # 1 problem was really that she & her shareholder did not get along, the latter being a young, new shareholder who did not need a secretary who quasi-privately thought she knew more than her boss did.
Dudes and ladies,
I finally saw a place I'd actually like to live in, so please concentrate your psychic energies on convincing the current tenants that they should accept me as one of them.
Go Ben's future roommates; pick him!
Heebie, I had to do that once, too. You just say "nice" things. You know. That kind of nice. In fact, you might want to use the *word* nice. "So and so is very nice."
gah, heebie-geebie, I was put in a similar position today. No fun.
I'd go for the damning with faint praise move. Emphasize what she does well; the fact that you're not praising her talents in mathematics should become apparent.
We accept you! We accept you! One of us! One of us! Gooble gobble, gooble gobble! One of us! One of us!
You don't think she should go to grad school? Don't write the letter.
Or—since she'll never see it—say you don't think she should go to grad school in the letter.
I think heeb's already been put down as a referee, so she can't back out of it.
I'm not so much suggesting backing out of it as I'm suggesting screwing the student.
Anyway, I think it would be SHAMEFUL to contribute the ongoing praise-inflation of reference letters.
You'll probably think differently when you're on the market! ("But," he purred, "it won't be inflation when it's about me...")
But seriously, a lack of effusive praise plus the student's transcript would probably suffice to keep her out of a Ph.D. program. Master's program at a second tier probably needs TAs, but a master's program is about the perfect place for someone who just really really loves the discipline but isn't all that good in it.
58, 59: or say she should go to grad school, but not in the letter.
61, I praise inflation with equanimity.
I can't in good conscience write a recommendation for her
Do it in bad conscience then. Come on, what's the worst that can happen if the world gets another crap mathematician. There are lots of them about already and it's not like she can break any of the already existing mathematics. Besides, she might meet a nice boy.
who knew dsquared was such a soft touch? he's right, though, I think. speaking of things people don't deserve, my hedge fund chet cousinish person made something between 20 and 50 millllllion dollars off their little pacific junket, by means of talking citibank into giving them (um, billions?) beaucoup bucks. and to think that just two generations ago his grandfather was the lowly founder of pan-am airways; it's really the american dream. he fucking well better buy my grandad's house now, or I will kick his ass.
But the company is achingly nice about letting people go, and is going to offer one month's severance, if s/he wants to resign.
"achingly nice about letting people go" s/b "wants to avoid paying unemployment benefits"
"wants to avoid paying unemployment benefits"
There are other examples of unwarranted generosity, and anyway, s/he opted to be fired and take the unemployment benefits.
dsquared is almost certainly right, but heebie should be sure that an "inaccurate" reference won't subsequently affect people's opinion of her professional judgement. Because that has to be protected.
"wants to avoid paying unemployment benefits"
Huh? Unless I'm much mistaken, all employees/employers pay into the unemployment system, and if you ever collect on it, the payments are made by the state. Your employer doesn't pay a cent more or less if 1 or 20 or zero of their employees actually draw on their benefits.
Am I dense?
56: Yeah, there must be a phrase that does the heavy lifting in academia, like the corporate HR question "Would you hire this person again if you had the chance?".
In any event, I don't see knowingly helping a square peg pound themselves into the round hole as a generally good thing. If they need to feel the pain they'll no doubt arrange to get it no matter what their situation.
Not dense, but mistaken -- if one of your employees starts collecting unemployment, they jack up the rates you pay. Firing an employee is like getting into a car accident, I think -- an excuse to raise your rates because you're a bad risk.
69: There's some variation in the laws from state to state, but generally, if you are fired for actual misconduct or quit without good reason, you are not eligible for unemployment benefits.
I appear to have misread comment 69. 71 has a response that addresses your question, as opposed to my 72.
At a previous job we routinely interacted with the technical contacts at client companies. One client company in particular had a lead IT dude who was a complete jackass with some serious and self-evident anger-management issues (screaming at my boss on the phone for something that was in fact the client's own fault, etc.). One Wednesday afternoon we got a call from the lead IT dude's second who wanted to let us know that Lead IT Dude would be walked out under police escort and that for the remainder of the week we should not make any changes to their network at his behest but that we also should not tell him why. "Don't remove him from any contact lists in any way he might detect," the guy pleaded with us. "Just make excuses, tell him you're too busy, anything." That was a fun week, for a given and un-fun value of "fun."
what's the worst that can happen if the world gets another crap mathematician.
Nah, the most likely scenario if I pad the evaluation and she got in is that she'd fail out in a year or two. I don't think she's capable of passing grad level classes.
The kinds of mistakes she makes are mind-bogglingly elementary. Like fundamentally not getting the difference between a proof and an example.
Thanks, LB.
Re: 71, yeah, I was wondering about that too, because I've always been told anecdotally that if you quit you couldn't get unemployment.
74 sounds awful, in a slightly hilarious-after-the-fact way.
65: Your grandfather was H/p Arn/ld?
There's a difference between a proof and an example? Damn.
Yeah, after the fact it was squicky-funny but the next two days we were on egg-shells the whole time. It's not worthy of presidential pseudonymity but I am mildly disguising my normal nom de pantalon since I recently learned that old co-workers have found out said monicker.
What is the origin of this post's title? I am looking at it, seeing "caned people", "canned music", "I hear music (sweet sweet music)"... not catching the reference.
Oh Clowny. Getting canned = getting fired.
I see dead people, presumably. Pretty weak, not up to Unfogged standards.
83 -- I know that -- but I'm sayin', I don't know where -gg-d came up with the phrasing for the title. 84 explains that, now I just need to go find out where "I see dead people" comes from -- is it that movie from several years back with the young boy possessed of paranormal abilities?
Now that that's settled, let's all get ready for the next rightwing blog circle jerk.
#82. "Shitcanned," "trashcan," "Dead man walking, etc." Ok. I'm hijacking this thread in the name of this awesome video. Look the skateboards! The chicks on motorcycles! Dig that guy with the Mod Squad 'fro!
(Also, this guy is Iranian-Swedish.)
90: Fight them over there so we don't have to fight them here, apo. And by "there," I mean Iraq. And by "them," I mean Slavic white dudes.
The six were arrested trying to buy automatic weapons in a sale set-up by law enforcement authorities, the official said.
Were they: A) going deer hunting B) terrified of maniacal Koreans C) exercising their inalienable Second Amendment rights or D) all of the above.
I mean Slavic white dudes
Albanians, right? Aren't Albanians usually Muslim?
I've known a lot of iranians, actually. I laughed when the comic Ogged linkedto did the arab and iranian accents, cause it's true.
Four ethnic Albanians from former Yugoslavia, one Jordanian, one Turk. They got busted in a sting after they made a "recruitment video," then took it to a camera shop to have it transferred to DVD. I suspect we're not dealing with the sharpest tacks in the box here.
Jihadists kosovars? I'm surprised, there can't be that many of them. Could be Bosniaks I suppose, somewhat less rare.
Do click on 95, and have patience.
Yes, most Albanians are Muslim slavic white dudes.
On a light note, the reports about "training in the Poconos" just makes me giggle. On a heavier note, I hope these weren't Kosovar refugees...
Albanians are generally not very religious. And none are Slavic.
Not actually slavic, for those who don't know.
#95. That's great! I haven't heard of Abjeez before.
sorry.
They're also not mostly dudes, actually. not my morning.
Most that I've met would hate to be described as such.
"training in the Poconos" s/b "playing the Borscht bandolier."
Aren't Albanians thought to be descended from the Illyreans, the Balkan people of antiquity, like some of the later Emperors?
On a light note, the reports about "training in the Poconos" just makes me giggle
Rat-a-tat-tat! Try the veal!
Albanians are probably genetically identical to Slavs, but the language isn't Slavic. It's hard to know how many are Muslim, how many Orthodox, and how many Catholic, since religious observance was illegal under the Maoist regime and since then a lot more Christians than Muslims have left for other European countries. Probably about 2/3 are Muslim.
"training in the Poconos"
OMG, the mayor of Hazleton is going to have an explosive orgasm with this kind of fearmongering material.
107: Yes, they are Illyrian. They've got a story about how they used to dominate the Balkans or something.
I saw quite a few religious students in Albania several years ago, which I gathered was a pretty new development. The Gulf States were busy founding madrassas there. Oddly, a lot of Albanian Muslims are Bektashi, who I think are regarded as pretty peculiar. Kosovo may have something else going on.
95: Yeah! I'm amused by how annoyed some commenterers were. Granted it is YouTube.
They're everywhere, I guess. Still funny, Kosovars are the most pro-american place on earth, and secular.
They've got a story about how they used to dominate the Balkans or something
Well, in the sense that Alexander the Great's mother was Illyrian, they've got a point.
I'm sure the right will try for a lot of mileage with this. The thing is though, that assuming (presumption of innocence etc.) they've picked up some seriously dangerous people, they appear to have done it by old fashioned, competent police work, and not by suspending the constitution and invading random small countries at all.
106: Borscht belt is the Catskills, no?
As I understand it, Albania's gotten more religious but is still pretty secular.
These are Kosovars.
My man Doug on Kosovars love for America.
In case the youtube clip was as slow loading for rest of you.
http://www.abjeez.com/video/eddeaa/eddeaa.html
114: 106.2 Some people have gotten more religious, due at least in part to missionizing from foreign Muslims and evangelical Christians (at least, in Albania proper).
94, 97, 101, 102: WM all of YBSLBs? Fucking jihad on all of you.
Albanians claim to be descended from the Illyrians, but "Illyrian" is kind of a nebulous category and it's not at all clear how much if any connection there is between, e.g., the Albanian language and the scanty attestations of ancient Illyrian.
I'm thinking it's because the language doesn't have any close relatives that it got classified as "Illyrian."
106: Borscht belt is the Catskills, no?
They're training in the Catskills, too? OMG! They've occupied New York State!
108, likewise, was pretty fabulous.
