Re: Recite!

1

But will it keep my balls fresh smelling?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:29 PM
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This has got to be the most annoyingly P.C. post ever on this blog.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:31 PM
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3

If we put up a weekly "pay attention to B" post, do you think you'd stop trying to bait us?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:34 PM
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4

It's worth a try!


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:34 PM
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5

I'll ask Unf to do it.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:37 PM
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6

B of people is telling *me* that I post annoyingly pc things?


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:37 PM
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you won't want to use it to bait airport security to frisk you

Moot. Just click on the CAIR link, your name gets put on the no-fly list. Actually fill out your information and you're singing Guantanamo-ra.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:38 PM
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Conflict of interest. Unf and I are sleeping together.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:38 PM
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9

6: You've shown me the error of my ways, Labs.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:39 PM
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I saw a bumper sticker on a car for I think this site a couple of weeks ago. I forget the exact wording -- it was like "Read more about Jesus in the Quran!" Anyone know what's up with that? Is it like a sketchy Muslim version of Jews for Jesus or was the guy just trying to say something like "Muslims: Not so different!"


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:40 PM
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3: Or, just recite the alternate litany of the Bene Gesserit:

Bitch is the thread-killer.
Bitch is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face the Bitch.
I will permit her to pass over me and through me.
And when she has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see her path.
Where the Bitch has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:41 PM
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10: maybe like a "hey, we like Jesus too! Friends?" thing?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:42 PM
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13

Sexing me is the path to higher consciousness.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:42 PM
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14

13: I thought enlightenment was reserved for a few, B.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:45 PM
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B is the Reverend Moon?

Makes a lot of sense now that I think about it.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:45 PM
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16

OH, SNAP!


Posted by: OPINIONATED GRANDMA | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:45 PM
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17

I don't think the Reverend Moon actually wanted people to sex him to reach enlightenment. Carlos Castaneda perhaps.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:46 PM
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18

Jesus, aka Isa ibn Maryam, makes a couple of appearances in the Quran, mainly to deny that he's begotten by Allah.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:47 PM
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19

Or, in other words, Becks' second option, plus: Christians are suckers!


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:48 PM
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20

You don't have to be PC to like free stuff.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:48 PM
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21

Yuh huh.

Actually I think it wasn't about enlightenment; he is supposed to be the father of Jesus or something or other, so he had to bang as many hot moonie girls as he could. I think he may have given this up now?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:51 PM
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22

21 to 17.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 2:52 PM
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23

14 wins.

Re: the Qur'an, my 1st reaction is to remember some article I saw, years back, about how the Saudis were flooding American academia with Wahabism, including Wahabist interpretations of the Qur'an. The fact that this little baby is free to infidels makes me wonder if it's bankrolled by the Saudis.

Anyone who actually knows what he's talking about, unlike me, care to speak to that?


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 3:16 PM
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I would've thought Wahhabists disapproved of translating it, but I wouldn't really know.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 3:23 PM
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23: I wanted to include this in the post, but I ran into some problems. Data point: the people at Eteraz.org (whose archives are messed up because of some reformatting) were running a campaign to donate the Asad translation to various Islamic centers to replace the free Saudi Qurans that are (I gather) pretty ubiquitous. The Eteraz line was that the Asad version was more moderate in both the translation and the notes.

(I thought the same about the Saudi connection when I saw that CAIR chose this--expensive!-- edition for the giveaway.)


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 3:30 PM
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I would've thought Wahhabists disapproved of translating it, but I wouldn't really know.

Well, no Muslim seems to favor a "translation," but that's why Asad's is "The MESSAGE of the Qur'an." Sort of like how I'm not charging my fellow Muslim interest, he just feels like giving me a gift because we're such pals.

Anyway, I roused my lazy ass to look him up on Wikipedia, but it wasn't too enlightening. Interesting guy tho -- a Jewish convert to Islam, and Pakistan's 1st UN ambassador. His kid teaches at CUNY.

Also, his not-a-translation is online.

I got almost halfway thru the new Oxford World's Classic of the Qur'an, & was all too struck by how the narratives of the Old Testament make it a much, much more readable book. The Qur'an is like the book of Jeremiah going on for 300 pages. (Of course, in fairness, picking up another culture's Scripture & reading it cold is NEVER a happy experience.)


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 3:31 PM
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Ah, thanx Labs.


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 3:32 PM
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Ah, here's the passage I want. 4:34 is the infamous "admonish, then deny sex, then beat" passage; Asad renders it this way:

And as for those women whose ill-will you have reason to fear, admonish them first; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them [FOOTNOTE]; and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek to harm them. Behold, God is indeed most high, great.

In the note, Asad refers to hadith describing the Prophet's (saw) opposition to wife-beating, and that he emphasized it as a last resort, and said that it should be symbolic, e.g., with a toothbrush or handkerchief.

More translations here.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 3:37 PM
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Unfortunately, that reminds me of Sontag's definition of interpretation: something we do to a text when its meaning is unacceptable, but its value makes it impossible to discard.

Reading "beat" as "beat off," however, would make excellent sense of the passage. [Goes into hiding; is seen with Salman Rushdie at parties.]


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 3:40 PM
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Asad is a tremendously interesting figure. His The Road to Mecca is a fascinating read.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 3:44 PM
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FL is an Asadist! And we were all spelling that incorrectly!

(Seriously, thanks for the tip -- I will check that out.)


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 3:49 PM
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And while I'm on about things I don't know about-- the Quran is *not* set up for a straight read-through. After the first surah, the early going is slow, because those are later revelations dealing with the nuts and bolts of everyday life. The short, punchy surahs at the end are earlier revelations and are more user-friendly-- lots of "God is good, but don't mess around" as opposed to "here are the rules about divorce and inheritance."

One thing that makes the OT interesting (have I posted about this? I think so...) is that the prophets mess up all the time, whereas there's sort of an Islamic tradition that they never do. E.g the Quran corrects the David/Bathesheba story, for example, so that it's not so vulgar.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 3:52 PM
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While we're on holy books, a shoutout to Ogged -- did you see this article on Heidegger, via Scott Horton?

Nice for your "why the fuck should I care about Heidegger?" friends and acquaintances, tho too heavy on the Nazi angle IMHO. (Hume and Kant were racists, but for some reason we read them anyway ....)


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 3:57 PM
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34

Thanks, Anderson. A little heavy on the mythologizing, a little light on explanation, but some pretty pictures!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 4:24 PM
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heavy on the mythologizing, a little light on explanation

Ah, continental philosophy!


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 4:33 PM
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36

Someone's back on his game.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 4:44 PM
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Hey Koranists, how is the A.J. Arberry translation? This is the one on my shelf. Sura II begins,

That is the Book, wherein is no doubt,
a guidance to the godfearing
who believe in the Unseen, and perform the prayer,
and expend of that We have provided them;
who believe in what has been sent down to thee
and what has been sent down before thee,
and have faith in the Hereafter;
those are upon guidance from their Lord,
those are the ones who prosper.


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 5:02 PM
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38

Also, I endorse 20.


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 5:05 PM
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39

Ah, continental philosophy easily caricatured.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 5:05 PM
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Ah, continental philosophy easily caricatured.

It came from the Eduard Fuchs collection.


Posted by: Walter Benjamin | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 5:14 PM
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41

It came from the Eduard Fuchs collection.

I don't know what this means. I admit I'm under the weather, in sort of a serious way.

So I have to apologize.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 5:34 PM
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Sorry to hear you're not feeling well, parsimon. I don't know what it means, either.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 5:36 PM
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43

Thank you.

I just helped my roommate notch up his sculpture, out there just outside the garage, another four inches. He's sanding it. It's an outdoor sculpture to be mounted 20 feet in the air in a public walkway here, in this city.

When we were done propping the thing up, I asked for a hug, got one.

That's about how things are.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 5:57 PM
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I admit I'm under the weather, in sort of a serious way.

Isn't "under the weather" reserved for non-serious ailments? You're not dying and stuff, are you?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 6:00 PM
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Is this the blasphemy thread?


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 6:09 PM
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46

I don't know anything about this guy other than the brief biographical sketches online, but the fact that the translation "has been criticized for its Mutazilite leanings" is enough to assure me that it is *not* the favored translation of the Saudis or other Salafi types.


Posted by: CG | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 6:17 PM
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You can include this in your dissertation and still get a job, and eventually tenure:

Heidegger's thought is like a path in the forest. One path leads to another and one distinguishes itself from another. Ecah path is a path. Each must be followed beacuse it leads. Each path establishes itself and is at it is. Let us follow one path and we will find an articulation of what it is to be a man. Follow a second path and another articulation will extress itself. A man follows his way. This is one of the lessons that Heidegger has to tell. But each way is unique. Every time that a path appears, it is different.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 6:42 PM
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48

Teh dood spels liek Iglesias.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 6:48 PM
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49

Spelling errors are actually errors of transcription.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 6:53 PM
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"Exstress" is the third-best word ever.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 8:05 PM
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"Extress," I mean.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 8:06 PM
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The Arberry translation is very good. It's written in an overly poetic way though, as is the Yusuf Ali one. I am not all that familiar with the Asad one.

Most of the qurans disbursed in teh US have been veted by the Saudis. For example they used to print the Yusuf Ali one with all the Sufi type stuff that he originally had in it taken out.

They have their own GODAWFUL translation called "the noble Quran" by two translators, I think one's last name is Khan. Avoid that one.

As for 4:34 (the one that ends "and beat them") I went to an entire workshop on this one verse at the ISNA convention in Chicago last year. Muslims have been agonizing over it for centuries. I have heard all sorts of explanations about it, one of which sounded very nice to me which explained the verb for beat could have meant separate from, i.e., if none of the other stuff mentioned in the verse works, get a divorce.

Will go back to my lurking mode now.


Posted by: Ann in PDX was Cairo | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 8:21 PM
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4: this is the most human things i think i've seen you post.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 8:23 PM
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my roomate had a four-version translation of the bible that seemed pretty useful.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 8:24 PM
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Am I not understanding the numeration correctly? Sura IV is called "Women". My edition has a verse that's marked 30, and five verses later is a mark 35. But the next one before 35, which I take to be 34, just says

But whosoever does that in transgression
and wrongfully, him We shall certainly
roast at a Fire; and that for God is an easy matter.

Not a word about chastizing through denial of sex. There is something kind of interesting at 29-30:

Any one of you who has not the affluence
to be able to marry believing freewomen
in wedlock, let him take believing handmaids
that your right hands own; God knows very well
your faith; the one of you is as the other.
So marry them, with their people's leave,
and give them their wages honourably
as women in wedlock, not as in licence or taking lovers.
But when they are in wedlock, if they
commit indecency, they shall be liable
to half the chastisement of freewomen.
That provision is for those of you who fear
fornication; yet it is better for you
to be patient. God is All-forgiving All-compassionate.

Is that something like the Constitutional 3/5 provision?


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 8:35 PM
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Clownae,
No, I don't know what you are reading, but here it is, yes it is verse 34 of surah 4 "women":

004.034
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.


Posted by: Ann in PDX was Cairo | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 8:49 PM
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Ah -- got it. The way this edition is marked that seems to be verse 38; but this is probably just my not understanding how to read the numbering. Arberry says,

Men are the managers of the affairs of women
for that God has preferred in bounty
one of them over another, and for that
they have expended of their property.
Righteous women are therefore obedient,
guarding the secret for God's guarding.
And those you fear may be rebellious
admonish; banish them to their couches,
and beat them. If they then obey you,
look not for any way against them; God is All-high, All-great.


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 8:58 PM
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41/42 - Fuchs was a early 20th c. art collector whom Walter Benjamin found interesting because of his Marxism and his interest in low art, such as porn and caricature.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 07- 6-07 9:27 PM
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Be cool if the last line of Pickthal's tranny were "Lol! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great."


Posted by: Clownaesthesiologist | Link to this comment | 07- 7-07 4:30 AM
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