Re: Pool Porn

1

I am now thinking of Cameron Diaz in Charlie's Angels.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:41 PM
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I'd be okay with this post if it didn't seem to presume that women are somehow not primates and that the urge to stare is something that only afflicts men. (Implying that we ought not to judge them too harshly for indulging that urge, the poor dears.)


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:42 PM
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Most of us are much less hairy.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:43 PM
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1. The picture is genius.
2. Kind of true, and in the best tradition of Unfogged. I don't know that you can claim it is nature, though. No way to tell.
3. I caught myself checking out a sixty year-old from behind in Whole Foods a while back. That surprised me. OTOH, pretty attractive, by any standard.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:43 PM
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I didn't mean to imply that, B.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:45 PM
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As you know, ogged, intention doesn't matter, so whatever B thinks you said is what you said.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:46 PM
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2: I know I shouldn't be taking the bait, but the post was written by a man about his personal experience, and the idea that it excludes the possibility of this applying to women as well doesn't seem well-supported by the text.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:47 PM
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Good, because I was totally checking out your ass at the meetup.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:47 PM
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6 is correct, 7 is just wrong. 8 refers to 5.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:49 PM
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Actually, exactly this magnetic and automatic following of a woman's nice behind is what made me realize that, goddamn, I am seriously pretty freaking gay. A bunch of friends and I were at the mall and walking into a Border's, this extremely attractive woman and her excellent buttocks walked past us, and my head had practically reached a 90 degree angle in order to track her by the time I even realized what the fuck I was doing.

And then I basically died of embarassment and shame at being a creepy pervert, the end.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:49 PM
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7 is just wrong

Got any, y'know, evidence for that?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:50 PM
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Do all guys have a secret, stupid expression that they say to themselves when they see a hot chick? Or is it just, um, me and certain friends who have been humoring me?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:51 PM
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And then I basically died of embarassment and shame at being a creepy pervert, the end.

This makes me so happy. Happens to the best of us, LR.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:51 PM
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10: otoh, accident self-outing like that avoids anxiety of bringing it up with friends, I suppose.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:51 PM
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Did I mention that I was like 15 at the time, and in a group that was largely composed of my (straight) female friends? Yarrgh.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:52 PM
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11, see 12.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:53 PM
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12: Is it "Come to Butt-Head"?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:53 PM
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15, you could have downplayed it by explaining to them that you were male-identified transgender. Or that they were on Celebrity Mole.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:53 PM
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Do all guys have a secret, stupid expression that they say to themselves when they see a hot chick?

If you're married, it's: Just because you've ordered doesn't mean you can't scan the menu.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:53 PM
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and my eyes were just little metal filings, blowing in the wind.

I strain my eyes
Only for a moment, then the moment's gone
All my dreams
Pass before my eyes, a curiosity
Fiii-lings in the wind
My eyes are mere filings in the wind.
Same old song
Just a hairy primate in an endless pool

... the rest left as an exercise for the reader.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:54 PM
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No, 11, don't see 12. That's not the same thing Ogged was talking about.

I presume that you are talking about how Ogged used the word "guy" instead of "person" in the last sentence. Well, it still doesn't mean he was saying his experience is specific to guys.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:54 PM
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11, see 12.

Now you're just being difficult.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:55 PM
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I mean, not me. But other married guys might think something along those tlines.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 4:55 PM
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it still doesn't mean he was saying his experience is specific to guys.

No it doesn't, which is why I accepted his saying that that wasn't his intent. But it does mean, no matter how defensive Teo wants to get, that the *implication* that he meant guys (both b/c of the word and b/c of the hairy thing, not to mention the general context in which we're operating, of hot or not threads that tend to be about chicks and more broadly a tendency of Society At Large to see men's sexual desire as more "natural" than women's) was a fair one.

I want it noted that *I* was not the person who dragged this thread off topic in this way; I took Ogged at his word.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:00 PM
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Meh, I don't actually care that much about this, and I wouldn't say I'm particularly defensive about it. I just thought 2 wasn't a very justified reading of the post.

I took Ogged at his word.

Intentional fallacy!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:04 PM
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I just thought 2 wasn't a very justified reading of the post.

And yet, 12 read it precisely the way I had predicted it might be read. Wanna jump all over Ned, or is it just me?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:05 PM
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We've already had one story of sexual awakening in this thread, Teo; so how do you feel about Cryptic Ned?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:07 PM
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You know, when I first read the thread title I thought it was going to be full of Ogged posting salacious descriptions of Pools He Has Known for the titillation of the swimmers amongst us.

Can it be about that now, please?


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:13 PM
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a secret, stupid expression

I've got about six or seven that seem to be set on Shuffle. The one that makes me chuckle is "Helloooo, nurse." No idea where it came from.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:18 PM
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That's a great topic, Lunar, with the bonus that it will bore all but about four of us to tears. Probably the nicest pool I've swum in is in Santa Monica (there are goofy people in that picture, yes, but check out how the water comes up exactly to the edge of the pool, with the gutter built into the ground). So great. The Stanford pool is also very nice, but I always freeze my ass off there for some reason; I blame a chemical, though I don't know what it would be. The nicest looking pool I've seen a picture of is in Munich; lemme see if I can find a picture.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:18 PM
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Have I mentioned that the National kids are at the pool the same time I coach?

Have I mentioned that they are often getting out of the pool or practicing their starts?

Have I mentioned that girl's suits are worn in the style of a Brazilian bikini?

How many Hail Mary's do I need to say?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:19 PM
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freeze my ass off there for some reason

Maybe your fancy new swimming shirt will solve this.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:20 PM
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Maybe your fancy new swimming shirt will solve this.

That's a good point, actually.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:20 PM
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How old are the National kids, Will? Or is it better for all concerned if you don't tell us?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:22 PM
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Here's the Munich pool.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:22 PM
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Favorite places to swim:

Ocean swims

The Lakeside Quarry in Louisville, KY http://www.lakesideswim.org/

The Hall of Fame Pool in Ft Lauderdale

Harvard's pool

I dislike Indianapolis's pool. Just cause it is too big.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:23 PM
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The one that makes me chuckle is "Helloooo, nurse." No idea where it came from.

Animaniacs?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:24 PM
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Ogged,

I've learned that confessions are not welcome here. But, 16 to 18. In the summer up to 22.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:24 PM
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Those are grownups!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:25 PM
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There's a spring-fed pool in Austin, is there not? I want to swim there.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:25 PM
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Animaniacs?

No, earlier than that.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:26 PM
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Oh, I forgot how much I like UT's pool in Austin.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:26 PM
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The hall of fame pool in Ft. Lauderdale is impressive. I swore an oath never to swim long course again there, but sadly broke it at the Santa Clara pool. The new CMU pool is pretty nice for swimming, but I think the Emory one is nicer.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:27 PM
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Swimming in the Aegean is pretty pleasant.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:29 PM
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30: I grew up swimming at Meadowbrook, which as I have mentioned totally spoiled me. If you check out this picture you can see the weird little aquatic median strip that seperated the kiddie pool from the 50 yd longcourse part, and also demarcated which lanes of the longcourse could and could not be used for free swim. There were of course starting blocks on the median strip as well as at the opposite end of the pool, and my and my NBAC homies used to tempt the wrath of the lifeguards and our coaches/parents by doing backflips off of them. Which was really bone-headed, because the water at that end wasn't much more than about seven feet deep; maybe even five or six.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:30 PM
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You could have been Charles Krauthammer.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:32 PM
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Jake:

That reminds me that Pitt's pool was pretty sweet. Of course, you cant park your car near it.

NBAC's pool never did it for me. Maybe bc it was always so cold and dreary outside when we went.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:32 PM
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Do all guys have a secret, stupid expression that they say to themselves when they see a hot chick?

Ever since I started watching The Wire I've been toying with "I'd like to throw a fuck into her". Unfortunately, I then end up thinking of the judge from The Wire, so it's kind of a secret, stupid saltpeter.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:32 PM
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The one that makes me chuckle is "Helloooo, nurse." No idea where it came from.
Animaniacs?

I got all curious about where Animaniacs got it from. Wikipedia said it goes back to vaudeville, but I don't know that I've ever heard it outside of Animaniacs.


Posted by: oztk | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:34 PM
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saltpeter

What does this mean in your sentence?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:35 PM
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What does this mean in your sentence?

yea, Ogged gets hot when the judge appears in his mind.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:36 PM
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Saltpeter dampens the libido, ogged, which is why Yale puts it into their cafeteria food.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:36 PM
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41: Vaudeville?

There are some lovely pools on this campus, apparently. Also there's this ocean which people seem to like. Wouldn't know, myself.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:37 PM
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How many Hail Mary's do I need to say?

None, assuming that you keep your salacious thoughts well hidden.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:37 PM
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Pwned, innit.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:38 PM
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Something like what you just said is apparently an urban legend, Ben.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:38 PM
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54: hidden from God, apostate? Not likely!

Or did you mean he'd be saying hail marys to you?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:38 PM
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Isn't "helloooo, nurse" originally Jerry Lewis?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:39 PM
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56, yes, ogged, I know. Everyone knows that.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:40 PM
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Every natural-born or legitimately naturalized citizen of the US, anyway.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:41 PM
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Man, there was some private high school pool in Baltimore that we had a swim meet at and that has to be the worst pool I've ever swam in. I'm wracking my brain to remember which one it was, but it had everything wrong. Shallow water, narrow lanes, crappy gutters, tiny locker rooms.

Oh, Pitt's pool was very sweet. We wanted to try jumping from the balcony into the pool, but our coach wouldn't let us.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:41 PM
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Considering the number of Animaniacs references to Jerry Lewis, that would not suprise me at all.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:41 PM
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They probably asked A. Sikkiin about it.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:41 PM
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57: Everyone ought to be worshipping me, but fwiw I don't think god really cares what Will is thinking. The girls might, though.

56: I think that was probably the point.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:42 PM
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Was it an all-male school of extreme preppitude? Because that totally sounds like Gilman. They also had a seperate diving pool that was for some reason downright terrifying to little me.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:42 PM
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Pwned, innit.

Mostly a lurker, so that was my first. I've got this warm and fuzzy feeling.


Posted by: oztk | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:43 PM
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65 to 61. If there is one thing I know, sadly, it is the details of snobby Baltimore prep school athletics facilities.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:44 PM
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but it had everything wrong. Shallow water, narrow lanes, crappy gutters, tiny locker rooms.

Was the water also too warm? I remember one swim meet in high school where it was like swimming in a bath. Horrible.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:44 PM
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Jake:

That wasnt a private high school. That was the University of Maryland's pool! That place was a DUMP. Same goes for UNC's old pool.

That would have been an impressive leap.

Who did you swim for in HS? How old are you? My best friend was Mt. Lebanon guy. Or maybe it was Bethel park.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:44 PM
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Five people!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:45 PM
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None, assuming that you keep your salacious thoughts well hidden.

So crotch grabbing and pumping my hips would be inappropriate?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:46 PM
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Hmm. Might be.

Although, the old CMU pool was also pretty horrific. Had to take out the diving board because of the low ceiling, lanes narrow enough that we had to set it up with 5 for practice vs. 6 for meets, which meant that the position of the line relative to the center of the lane was different for each lane, which made changing lanes in practice interesting. Also, they messed up the chemistry somehow one winter break, resulting in a pool so cloudy that you couldn't see your hand when your arm was fully extended. The color could be replicated with about 3 parts yellow kool-aid to 1 part blue; adding lots of vodka gave you "pool water punch", which became a staple of our parties for the rest of the year.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:46 PM
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I remember 'Hellooooo, Betty,' but I have no idea where it came from.

The cathedral here has a 30s-era painting in which Mary looks, um, rather fetching. So to atone for lust, I'd have to choose a different prayer.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:47 PM
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Frederick High School, am now 30. We were far enough out in the sticks that we got schooled at whatever the state championship meet was.

68: Yes! Ugh. Give me 60 degree water over 80 degree water any day.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:48 PM
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Oh, Padonia was pretty awesome, too, although not so much for their lap pool, which wasn't long course and always seemed way too shallow to me.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:48 PM
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I've started swimming again. My motivation is that my friend's 10 yr old daughter went a :45 for a 50 m long course breast. I cannot look too winded when/if she calls me out.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:49 PM
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<insert obligatory Fredneck joke here>


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:49 PM
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80 degree water is too warm? Jeez people. My club keeps the pool way too warm. I've gotten used to 81 as being cool. So sad.

I better sign up for water aerobics.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:50 PM
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Damn, that Munich pool is sweet. I win the lottery, I'm totally building myself something like that. Or moving to Munich.

The pool at the University of RI that I used growing up was absolutely horrible. It's worse now, from what I understand.


Posted by: JL | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:51 PM
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78-79 is perfect for a pool. If you like it lower than that, you're fat.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:52 PM
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Just splashing around, warm water is pleasant. If you are swimming for real in water in the 80s, though, surely your times are suffering for it!

Christ, am I not-fit. Not that I was ever anything but a terrible swimmer to start with.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:52 PM
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Isn't "helloooo, nurse" originally Jerry Lewis?

No, you're thinking of "Oh, fwybah bwlah hgawhfh nice lady".


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:52 PM
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72: Ugh. I remember a meet in a pretty boonies-ish part of PA that was held at a pool I suspect was basically sourced from the local river, and it had a similar color/consistency.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:52 PM
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I actually agree. 77-79 is the ideal temp.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:54 PM
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A polar bear ogged ain't.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:54 PM
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80: Silence, Twiggy.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:54 PM
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A polar bear ogged ain't.

Merely a white bear sympathizer.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:56 PM
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60 might be overstating things for effect. But if you're working, 65 is nice. There's nothing worse than being sweaty in a pool.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:56 PM
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And Frederick is now a booming metropolis! They have three malls, a Wal-Mart, and everything. Take that Fredneck joke back!


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:57 PM
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65 is nice

Holy crapoly, dude. 65?! They lost heat at my local pool last year and it was down to the upper 60s and I thought my head was going to implode from the cold. I lasted about twenty minutes.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:59 PM
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87: not obviously, if he's trying to boil her alive in the municipal pool.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 5:59 PM
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65???!?!?! Are you out of your mind? Have you not been in a pool recently?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:00 PM
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89: The Baltimoron recants, hon.

90: Dude, what are you, anorexic?


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:01 PM
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pwned by Ogged. Maybe 75. But 65 is wetsuit time. (Rashguard in Ogged's case.)


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:01 PM
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So crotch grabbing and pumping my hips would be inappropriate?

Exactly. As long as you're not doing those things, or wolf-whistling, you're totally in the clear.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:01 PM
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Men are wimps, lol.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:02 PM
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anorexic?

Not if I can make it to Whole Foods before traffic gets too bad. Perhaps Will can convince you of the madness of 65 degree pool water by the time I get home.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:04 PM
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So nodding is acceptable? Sweet.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:04 PM
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Never been in it, but this looks like a neat "pool."


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:04 PM
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65 was clearly a joke. You do not knowingly swim in 65 degree water in a pool.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:05 PM
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I have more hair than Ogged. But I remember only two times that the pool water was so cold as to really bug me, and once was in an outdoor unheated pool in Frederick in May, and the other was at the hall of fame pool in Ft. Lauderdale when the heater broke for several days.

I also have more padding than Ogged.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:08 PM
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You have to understand, Will, I was an adolescent girl who did stupid adolescent macho-boneheaded things like double-backflipping into five foot deep water. Showing off by swimming in cold water/oceans = finally, an area to show off in where my gender was a distinct advantage over the boys!!!

Also, I've always been weird and loved the cold and been unusually sensitive to heat.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:10 PM
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The Hall of Fame Pool has never been 65 degrees.

Where you there for a meet or did you train there?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:10 PM
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19: For this married guy, it's nudging my wife and saying "2 o'clock" or whatever the bearing is to the pert bottom in question. It's only polite to share, after all.

When my wife spots the hottie first, on the other hand, she generally snaps her head directly towards the target and asks "what's that?" in a particular cheery tone.


Posted by: Hamilton Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:11 PM
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Lunar:

Don't get me wrong. I am the same way with heat. I can get in the Bay when it is fricking cold.

But, I don't want my pool to be 65 on a regular basis. Not even 70.

The UVa pool was regularly 75 or 76 when I was there. That was freaking cold as ice and I was working my ass off.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:12 PM
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Also, I've always been weird and loved the cold and been unusually sensitive to heat.

Just as I said, you're male-identified.

I think the scorecard of people I have heard complain that a room was too cold stands at about Women 80, Men 0.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:12 PM
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65 degree water will eventually cause hypothermia, but y'all are wusses.

Why, I used to swim miles off the coast of Maine as a lad! 65? We would've killed for 65.

No, 65 degree water is pretty damn cold. Not enough to knock the wind out of you, but not all that comfortable long-term.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:13 PM
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106: Just as I said, you're male-identified.

I know you probably don't mean that in either of the ways I'm used to hearing it, but no, I'm really not.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:13 PM
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The Hall of Fame Pool has never been 65 degrees.

Where you there for a meet or did you train there?

Winter training trip over New Year's for my college team. It was cold enough that half the team got out, and most of who was left went to two swim caps. I did put one on, and I won't like and say that it was fun, but it was better than being too hot.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:14 PM
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106: interesting, I have friends who completely invert that pattern. He is constantly turning up the heat in the winter.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:15 PM
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"Male-identified" is simply the accepted Mineshaft method of dismissing women who demonstrate the untruth of sexist stereotypes, LR, don't worry about it.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:19 PM
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Man. I'm being a big sexist jerk by implication and generalization. I feel bad.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:23 PM
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the untruth of sexist stereotypes

I stand by my statement.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:25 PM
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50: saltpeter

All I know of it is as gunpowder ingredient (along with... sulfur and charcoal?). Which brings to mind Blood Meridian:

We hauled forth our members and at it we went and the judge on his knees kneadin the mass with his naked arms and the piss was splashin about and he was cryin out to us to piss, man, piss for your very souls for cant you see the redskins yonder, and laughin the while and workin up this great mass in a foul black dough, a devil's batter by the stink of it and him not a bloody dark pastryman himself.

Which is probably anaphrodesiac. Depending.


Posted by: elemund | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:26 PM
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women are somehow not primates and that the urge to stare is something that only afflicts men.

Oh, I'm sure it's present for women, but it afflicts men worse. And differently. Probably every man in this thread knows I'm right. Not worth opening the endless debate with all the necessary provisos and qualifications, but the difference is there.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:27 PM
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Bitch is a real hombre.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:28 PM
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You have to understand, Will, I was an adolescent girl who did stupid adolescent macho-boneheaded things like double-backflipping into five foot deep water. Showing off by swimming in cold water/oceans = finally, an area to show off in where my gender was a distinct advantage over the boys!!!

You're probably aware of it, but I recommend Swimming to Antarctica. I put off reading it because, after reading her New Yorker article, I wondered if the book would feel repetitive, but I found it surprisingly moving.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:29 PM
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Oh, I'm sure it's present for women, but it afflicts men worse. And differently. Probably every man in this thread knows I'm right. Not worth opening the endless debate with all the necessary provisos and qualifications, but the difference is there

How on earth would we know this? It's kind of hard to get at the subjective experience of others of your own gender, let alone the opposite one.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:33 PM
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117: No, I wasn't, actually! Thank you.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:34 PM
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How on earth would we know this?

True enough, but either we get to make big generalizations about broad classes of human beings, or we don't. Other minds are always inaccessible. The generalization that women are the same as men in urge/drive/whatever for skeevy sexualized staring requires just as much mindreading as any assertion of differences does.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:42 PM
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120: So maybe we could just skip the "everybody knows that" sort of generalizations completely?


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:44 PM
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119 -- It's an amazing book.

She accomplishes incredible athletic feats which require unbelievable courage and stamina but that is only part of what struck me about the book. I was most moved by her dedication -- how much time she spends preparing for swims, and the effort of gathering her support teams and raising money in a sport with so little public recognition. It seemed so ascetic.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:47 PM
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Lots of video of Lynne Cox (who really is amazing) here.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:56 PM
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121: well, it's a handy shorthand way to appeal to the mass of unorganized experiential evidence supporting a generalization. My experience leads me to believe there are a lot of on-average differences between men and women in this department, I'd guess other peoples' experiences lead them in that direction too.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:57 PM
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124: What is the relevant experience? I don't think "my male friends say different stuff than my female friends" is particularly strong evidence.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 6:58 PM
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By the way, this flip into a pool video needs watching.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:06 PM
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Wow, Ogged, that's incredible. I'd heard of her, but hadn't really seen much. Goddamn.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:07 PM
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126: Dude. Duuuuuuuuuuuuude.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:08 PM
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We did this kind of thing as kids, too.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:10 PM
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What is the relevant experience?

Let me throw this out there:

1. The threads regarding Catherine's hotness, and that of her competitors, attracted 800-plus posts from males and females, probably more than half of them on-topic.
2: The threads regarding Kriston's hotness attracted 80-plus posts - and I have no idea how many were on topic because I never got around to reading them.
3. This result was completely predictable.
4. These data suggest that perhaps men and women regard feminine beauty differently than masculine beauty.
5. This sort of result is visible in all kinds of places to anyone who is paying attention.

Now this may, of course, be the result of the patriarchy - I'm not making a case for innateness here.

But the anonymous 115 reflects my experience: Oh, I'm sure it's present for women, but it afflicts men worse. And differently.

From your own experience, do you disagree, DaveL? And whether or not you do, do you really think it's inappropriate for us to try to generalize from our experience?


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:10 PM
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pert young lifeguard-bot preparing to launch.


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:13 PM
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I have also done this! Although in those cases, the fence was chainlink, which posed some unique problems.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:15 PM
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130: speaking of which, the Clinton Yates, Patrick Healy, and Mark Leibovich factions have each amassed around three thousand votes.

But even worse, the rumored JessicaHolzerBot made its appearance this afternoon! Catherine is not the only candidate with a 5-digit number of votes.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:15 PM
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From your own experience, do you disagree, DaveL? And whether or not you do, do you really think it's inappropriate for us to try to generalize from our experience?

You're missing the point. I'm not saying that men and women are the same, I'm saying that having another long stupid argument about "men are x and women are not-x" is, um, stupid. What interesting thing are we accomplishing by discussing whether everybody knows that men care more about a woman's attractiveness than women care about a man's attractiveness?


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:16 PM
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Ogged version of backflip.

Shorter 134: LESS COMPARITIVE DONGOLOGY, MORE BACKFLIPS.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:18 PM
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134: whatever it is, it must be damned interesting to have generated as much typing as it has.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:20 PM
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At some point you must choose to believe either that there are differences between the sexes or that there are no differences between the sexes. Through studious exploration I have personally uncovered at least one potential difference. No doubt future research will yield further results.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:21 PM
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Ogged version of backflip.

Looked good to me!

You are a crazy person if you're doing backflips into pools.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:23 PM
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Thanks for the heads up, Ned. I'll keep an eye on that Holzer character. We have bots at the ready.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:26 PM
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LESS COMPARITIVE DONGOLOGY, MORE BACKFLIPS.

Everyone on this blog should take this to heart.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:26 PM
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I don't ever remember being disturbed by the force of the urge, the compulsion to look. I can keep from staring stupidly, which is an important social skill, just as not reacting to many other things is, but I never had an idea of myself or my will that would make finding myself staring at all unsettling.

Am I not getting the point? The strength of instantaneous, unexpected sexual feelings has always been a kind of comfort to me, a connection. I've never felt threatened by them.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:32 PM
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What interesting thing are we accomplishing by discussing whether everybody knows that men care more about a woman's attractiveness than women care about a man's attractiveness?

Seems like an interesting question to me - but that's not the question that I was asking. Read me again and attempt to represent my point honestly - you can even use quotes ! - and I bet we could have an interesting conversation.

But gosh, I must say, taken on your own terms, you are certainly right: Discussing whether such a conversation would be interesting would be pretty boring.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:33 PM
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Why do you hate America, Ogged?

Bet you never tried to pop a wheelie either. You fail.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:33 PM
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I can totally pop a wheelie! Come on! (On a bike, anyway.)


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:38 PM
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I can pop a wheelie on foot.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:39 PM
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dear god.

I hate to be the one bringing this newsflash to some of you, but WOMEN CHECK PEOPLE OUT. Women check out men, women check out women, and women talk about it. They even have code-words for it. Several. Or else me and my entire circle of friends are not women, and would somebody please let us know.

That said, I think men in the US are much less fun to look at then women because they don't make any effort at all - they don't even want to look like they made any effort at all.


Posted by: mrmf | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:42 PM
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What kind of code words?


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:44 PM
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they don't even want to look like they made any effort at all

Correct.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:45 PM
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Sifu?


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:46 PM
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That's not a wheelie. </w-lfs-n>


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:47 PM
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149: no, no, nothing like that. I just arrange myself so there's no contact between the ground and my front wheel. In fact, I'm doing it right now!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:48 PM
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147: If I told you, they wouldn't work so well, would they?

cheers.


Posted by: mrmf | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:51 PM
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I hate to be the one bringing this newsflash to some of you, but WOMEN CHECK PEOPLE OUT.

Can you point to who indicated that this might not be true? I can't figure out who you are SHOUTING at.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:51 PM
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Okay, Sifu, you've stumped me, I give up.

More risky behaviors I have engaged as an adolescent.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:53 PM
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146: Or else me and my entire circle of friends are not women, and would somebody please let us know.

The International Bureau of Patriarchal Normativity regrets to inform you that you are probably some sort of clandestine hermaphrodites. Sorry about that.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:56 PM
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148: Seems as if my brother and I, so different in many ways , have this in common: we've always been fuckwits. Also my son. Not my dad though; he was careless and sloppy, with little sense of how he looked.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:57 PM
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153: hey, Mr. Grumpy, pop a wheelie!

154: well, I'll put it this way: is your front wheel touching the ground right now? No? Congratulations!

156: 148 is canonical. The ultimate victory of Midwestern over Persian.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 7:59 PM
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is your front wheel touching the ground right now?

Surely this question is not truth-apt?


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:02 PM
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originally, the nameless person in 115 who might be Marcus.

though I am happy to aim it in your direction too. You just cannot make generalizations like that because you don't know what is going on in women's heads.

I really detest being spoken for like that, by men.

The hottness web contest list is a bad example because iirc just about all the women who commented agreed (& it was my impression too, though unspoken) that at least the first 8 men on it (pretty much until Carl Hulse) were terrible, terrible Arrogant People who we would personally like to kick in the shins. Not inspiring.

and now, as unsporting as it is, I have to disappear from the internets, so apologies, bye.


Posted by: mrmf | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:02 PM
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More risky behaviors I have engaged as an adolescent.

You, madam, are insane.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:03 PM
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155: tee hee


Posted by: mrmf | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:03 PM
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Let me have my petty sophistries, dammit. Would it appease you if I made "invisible wheelie!" motions with my hands?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:03 PM
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Read me again and attempt to represent my point honestly - you can even use quotes ! - and I bet we could have an interesting conversation.

You're new, right? We've had that very conversation too many times to mention, and it has never been interesting.


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:04 PM
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For what it's worth, half the reason that the Catherine thread was so much longer than the Kriston thread is that at first, that was where the botting discussion was all taking place.

You (non-specific you) dong-obsessed morons.

157: ... somehow, I feel like I need to be stoned to fully appreciate that answer.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:05 PM
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Lunar:

We did that as youths too.

We also spent the night on a train tresle "safe" spot. utterly stupid.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:06 PM
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Wheelies are too important to allow your petty sophistries! Although the cops in Monterey were far too facist last weekend; we only saw one wheelie around Cannery Row, and that was some dude on a bicycle. No burnouts, and no fights, either.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:06 PM
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160: You, madam, are insane.

It gets better: we did it in parking lots, so we could whirl around!


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:06 PM
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166: I'll even make "vrooom! vrooom!" noises.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:08 PM
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Whenever things like this come up, I send these videos to a childhood friend and note what pussies we were.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:08 PM
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130:

The threads regarding Catherine's hotness, and that of her competitors, attracted 800-plus posts from males and females, probably more than half of them on-topic.

Quantification cannot be wrong.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:09 PM
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167: Oh, lordy.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:09 PM
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169: Jenga can be pretty freaky towards the end of the game.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:10 PM
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Damn it, John, I wanted the last word.


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:10 PM
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oh, the swimmers in the crowd probably did this:

When we were at a meet and our hotels had balconies, we could climb to the balcony above us (if it was another swimmer's room). The hotel at the Cinn Pepsi Marlins meet was perfect for that.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:10 PM
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Been there, done that.

165: We also spent the night on a train tresle "safe" spot. utterly stupid.

I know of people who did this, although it was at an age when we had largely segregated out by gender and I wasn't included. It seems like it must have been awesome, though, although that may be my youthful madness for anything involving trains speaking.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:11 PM
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Or else me and my entire circle of friends are not women, and would somebody please let us know.

You and your pussy friends are not women.

You're welcome.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:11 PM
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Lunar:

It was stupid. Fun, scary, but stupid.

My friend kept climbing on top of the concrete ledge (1 foot wide maybe?). The river and lots of rocks waited below. I was not happy.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:13 PM
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177: My friend kept climbing on top of the concrete ledge (1 foot wide maybe?). The river and lots of rocks waited below. I was not happy.

speaking of: waterfall diving woo!

... you know, now I'm really curious as to when developed my crippling fear of heights, because I was well into teenagerhood before I stopped doing this kind of shit, and yet there's no particularly traumatic experience I can remember to set it off. Heck, my parents tell a story of a time we were crossing the Bay Bridge going to Ocean City through a really insane, heavy storm, and my little cousin and I kept freaking out by opening the windows in the rear seat and leaning out into it.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:18 PM
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I wish I knew when I developed my fear of heights. The triumph of the greatest moment of my high school career (gluing a cardboard Mickey Mouse to the school's Back-to-the-Future style architectural clock), I wouldn't rappel over the edge, and a friend had to go. Truly, I was filled with shame.

I always told myself it was the inherent unreliability of my friends who were on belay duty, but really, I'm just scared of heights.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:22 PM
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Quantification cannot be wrong.

I hope I was clear that I didn't consider that little anecdote a definitive indication of anything in particular. But I did consider it representative of other experiences of mine. And I was/am curious about other peoples' actual experiences. Are your experiences different in this? Do you think men and women react/think essentially identically about beauty, either masculine or feminine?

(And bless you for actually quoting me.)

hey, Mr. Grumpy, pop a wheelie!

I think I'm separated by about 30 years from my last wheelie.

I must say, though, that I am proud to be christened "Mr. Grumpy" on a blog where Emerson is a regular participant. Would it be presumptuous to adopt "Mr. Grumpy" as my regular pseudonym?


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:30 PM
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I had the opposite experience, of losing my fear of heights in adolescence. My mother was very afraid, and before I was twelve or so, I couldn't climb very far off the ground at all. Humiliating.

Then, to my exhilaration and relief, I began to be able to do it, and started climbing, extending and hanging-off at just about the time many people found they couldn't.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:39 PM
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I nominate Mr. Grumpy and Frowner to chair the Social Committee.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:39 PM
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Rocky, I love you, but I am never letting you anywhere near my son unless you promise not to encourage him to follow your macho example.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:46 PM
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I submit that the reason some of the guys think women don't check men out is that women don't check *them* out.

I'm sorry, guys. Maybe if you took a little bit better care of yourselves, y'know?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:48 PM
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I don't understand people who didn't do stupid stuff like that as a kid. How'd you fill your time? Homework? Crafts?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:48 PM
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185: I was a bookworm. Duh.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:54 PM
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Well, sure, me too, but it didn't entirely replace climbing trees and setting fireworks off indoors.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:56 PM
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When I wasn't reading, I was swimming at the neighborhood pool. Where we weren't allowed to do backflips, obviously.

Unlike *some* of you, I didn't have my *own* pool.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:57 PM
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I submit that the reason some of the guys think women don't check men out is that women don't check *them* out.

Enh. I know a fair number of guys who get checked out frequently but have no idea it's going on. I think women are just more subtle about the checking-out.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:57 PM
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184: Ya' mean my 15-year old, ratty shorts aren't cutting it?


Posted by: Roamsedge | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:57 PM
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Jake, don't be here defending Marcus and that lot, or I'll have to ban you.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:58 PM
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I am with Sifu: didn't everyone do stupid stuff like that? I was hardly wild and we did crazy stuff all the time.

Naked chicken fighting, swimming in the river at night, sending the night on the boat. Good times.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 8:59 PM
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allowed to do backflips

The point was that you were not allowed to do it.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:00 PM
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B, I'll be good, I promise! Plus PK sounds like a very responsble and safety conscious young'un; you're raising a pretty remarkable kid there. Also, you should check your mail.

I never had my own pool, though. Hell, until high school we lived in a pretty janky rowhouse, so technically not even a yard.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:01 PM
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188: well, we couldn't very well do backflips into the pool on the yacht, could we? And obviously the gables of The Breakers are rather too high to make a leap into the olympic size pool advisable.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:02 PM
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Enh. I know a fair number of guys who get checked out frequently but have no idea it's going on. I think women are just more subtle about the checking-out.

Or the men just think the women are casting their eyes downward to show how submissive and demur they are.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:02 PM
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Hey, I was in fact 115. I didn't mean to leave my name off.

Everybody checks everybody out, there's no question about that. But this thread wasn't about checking people out, it was about staring fetishistically and lustfully at someone's ass.

We've had that very conversation too many times to mention, and it has never been interesting.

That's true, just thinking about another go-round on the men/women bit makes me tired. Especially since, free of the investment people make in digging into sides, everybody would probably agree on some sensible medium anyway. However great the between-sex variation is, it's less than the within-sex variation.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:03 PM
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193: The point was that you were not allowed to do it.

Yeah. There was quite a lot of potential-head-injury chicken and oneupsmanship going on; you got more close the closer you were to the shallow-end/kiddie pool zone. And of course, always off the concrete; starter blocks were acceptable but only as a means to get in more potential rotations. The board proper was right out.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:05 PM
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If I get banned for that, the ignominy will kill me.

And really, it's critical to do the stupid shit when you are young and still immortal. Or at least have fast-healing bones. I regret not doing more when I had the chance.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:07 PM
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Yes, I'll always regret not running headlong into that brick wall more.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:08 PM
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The point was that you were not allowed to do it.

Well, at our neighborhood pool, if I'd done that shit I'd not have been allowed back. Y'all obviously had homeowners associations that simply didn't care about children.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:08 PM
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194: Actually PK, so far, is way safety-conscious. Hell, half the time *I'm* encouraging him to do shit (like jump off the diving board at swim camp) and he's saying "no fucking way."

(He did do it, but one of the cc students had to go out on the board with him.)


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:10 PM
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Now is when I will make my obligatory comment about how Sleater-Kinney's song "The Swimmer" is an ode to the "Swimming to Antarctica" woman adapted from the New Yorker article about her

You're welcome.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:11 PM
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I mostly just climbed on roofs, ran around half naked in graveyards, did drugs, and rode around in cars that my friends were driving at truly insane speeds. And read books. I was a tame one.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:13 PM
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Bitch

You have to much respect for authority. Most of the time is was all bark, no bite. They arent going to kick you out. They say, Bad, bad, bad. Don't do it again!

Jake is correct. These are things to be done while your bones bend easier.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:13 PM
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Although the only bone I've definitively broken is my skull. Which has to count for something.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:13 PM
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201: homeowner's associations?!? Who's all fancy now!

Actually pretty much all of my "try to do a backflip into water" experiences came at a quarry, although I did do the odd leap off a shed.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:14 PM
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I mostly just climbed on roofs, ran around half naked in graveyards, did drugs, and rode around in cars that my friends were driving at truly insane speeds. And read books. I was a tame one.

I never dared to do any of those things (except read books). I was afraid it would derail my as-then-nonexistent ambitions.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:14 PM
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I have never broken a bone, which serves admirably to demonstrate my tameness. I liked to spend an embarrassing amount of my childhood time chattering away with adults.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:15 PM
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I submit that the reason some of the guys think women don't check men out is that women don't check *them* out.

I'll say it again: Is there someone on this thread who made an assertion resembling "women don't check men out" ? Who are you debating here? As I requested previously: Please quote.

Absent some quote, this looks like yet another unprovoked assault on defenseless straw men and straw women.

I nominate Mr. Grumpy and Frowner to chair the Social Committee.

Frowner is one of my absolute favorites. I really do feel compelled to change my pseudonum here. I think apostropher and Sifu have me pegged.

We've had that very conversation too many times to mention, and it has never been interesting.

Fair enough, but I wouldn't blame it on the subject matter, which seems intrinsically fascinating. In fact, I read the original post as a direct invitation to discuss this - and so did B and others.


Posted by: Mr. Grumpy | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:17 PM
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Although the only bone I've definitively broken is my skull. Which has to count for something.

Me too. I jumped off a hay truck while it was moving. Apparently, it is important not to do that when the truck is moving more than 15 MPH. fractured my skull.



Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:17 PM
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This is confusing, though. I was pretty tame, in the scheme of things, but when you're a kid crazy moments like "say, I think I'll try to do a flip off this riser!" or "I bet I could hit that snow between those trees just like in Dukes of Hazzard!" just seem to happen, don't they?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:19 PM
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203: Oh hey, cool.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:20 PM
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210: Absent some quote, this looks like yet another unprovoked assault on defenseless straw men and straw women.

Yeah, how about the unprovoked obnoxious comments about people's gender identity upthread?

Cry more, please.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:22 PM
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Hmph. Bah humbug.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:22 PM
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Did anybody else here make napalm or Clorox bombs when they were little?


Posted by: Michael Vanderwheel, B.A. | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:23 PM
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Lunar R is also a real hombre.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:23 PM
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I was pretty tame, in the scheme of things, but when you're a kid crazy moments like "say, I think I'll try to do a flip off this riser!" or "I bet I could hit that snow between those trees just like in Dukes of Hazzard!" just seem to happen, don't they?

Yeah...I sort of never actually convinced myself that things like that had a chance of success.

Aim high, kids!

I did use a rope to swing into a swimmin' hole a few times, in which leeches were known to dwell. If it was crocodiles or hippos, though, I wouldn't have dared.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:23 PM
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I agree Sifu.

Michael, we never made bombs.

We tried to jump things, climb things, and generally do stupid stuff. We didnt do planned out stupid stuff.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:25 PM
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You have to much respect for authority.

Alas, true.

homeowner's associations?!? Who's all fancy now!

Dude, it was the 70s.

and so did B and others.

Oh no way, don't drag me into this shit. I made one attempt to hassle Ogged, he replied mildly, there was no fun to be had and I let it go. Y'all whipped this one up all on your own.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:26 PM
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Didn't everyone make Drano bombs? And pack the nose cones of model rockets full of gunpowder? Or their GI Joe tanks full of firecrackers?


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:27 PM
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221: When I was a kid I heard rumors that some kids had gunpowder or firecrackers, but never saw such substances myself. At least until we reached the age when those explosions would stop being fun.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:28 PM
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A. "That Louise Wong's got a balcony you could do Shakespeare from."

B. Swimming in the Limmat River in Zurich is worth it. So is Tribune Bay (in BC).


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:29 PM
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At least until we reached the age when those explosions would stop being fun.

90?


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:29 PM
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I set the carpet in my room on fire by mistake once. It melted horribly. But no actual napalm, no.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:29 PM
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At least until we reached the age when those explosions would stop being fun.

Which is?


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:30 PM
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I actually wasn't much of a pyro as a kid, apart from illegal firecrackers and rockets, and really regret it.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:30 PM
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Hmm, 14? I assume you mean very small explosions.

I actually don't know what gunpowder looks like. I think it's black.


Sorry Lunar Rockette. I shouldn't have mentioned you personally.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:31 PM
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Oh, hey, Jake! You don't happen to be an emacs user, do you?


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:31 PM
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We avoided gunpowder. My best friend's dad was a huge gun guy with a huge regard for gun safety and an anarchistic view of regulating anything else. Everything goes, but stay away from guns,gunpowder or bullets. Oh yes, and fire. BC a fire accident would have screwed up his hunting.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:32 PM
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Oh, as for napalm, no. Tried to make thermite, but powdering the magnesium is hard, as is lighting it. Stump remover + sugar is a good one, as was potassium permanganate from the bio lab plus water and aluminum foil. Flamethrowers with spray paint or carb cleaner also work pretty well, and are a favorite of boy scout camp.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:32 PM
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Potassium permanganate isn't just pretty and purple, it actually helps you blow things up?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:33 PM
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Never anything to do in this town, live here my whole life
Probably learn to die in this town, live here my whole life.
Nothing to do, sit around at home
Sit around at home, stare at the walls
Stare at each other and wait till we die
Stare at each other and wait till we die
Probably come to die in this town, live here my whole life
There's Kerosene around, something to do
There's Kerosene around, she's something to do
There's Kerosene around, she's something to do
There's Kerosene around, we'll find something to do
Kerosene around, she's something to do
Kerosene around, set me on fire.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:33 PM
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Escape-Meta-Control-Alt-Shift? Of course.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:34 PM
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216: not those. Dry ice bombs were pretty common, and we used to douse tennis balls and then play some high-temperature soccer/catch, but really: pretty tame.

Certainly not crazy like those desert people.

My friend Deth Vegetable got to be on Dateline NBC after a file he wrote about recreational explosives manufacture was used as cause to prosecute some dumb kid in Connecticut, and then later misused in the process of some idiot Quebeçois kid blowing off a couple of his fingers. This was in the early days of internet hysteria, so you can imagine. Our house scared the crap out of Deborah Roberts while she was there.

Explosives are definitely something kids should be learning about. I look forward to many warm bonding moments over big booms when I have kids.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:34 PM
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My only rowdy friends were both Magic The Gathering losers and Republicans. The rowdiness mainly consisted of trampoline wrestling.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:34 PM
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Potassium permanganate isn't just pretty and purple, it actually helps you blow things up?

It's a pretty impressive oxidiser. So yeah. Dissolve in water, add aluminum foil.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:35 PM
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Quebeçois Québécois

no cedilla unless the c sounds like an s


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:35 PM
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No kidding? I don't speak your crazy moon language. Arguably, I don't speak my own crazy moon language, either.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:38 PM
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No apologies necessary, Ned; I assumed you were in good faith, this is just a very touchy subject for me. (Anyone else who keeps bringing this crap up can go backflip into an inch of water, though.)

234: Know of any particularly nifty python-related things I should be aware of, beyond the obvious?


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:41 PM
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Yeah, how about the unprovoked obnoxious comments about people's gender identity upthread?

Cry more, please.

Dammit. Here we are yet again. I seem to be being accused of something, and I have absolutely no idea what. Can you quote some unprovoked obnoxious comment that I have made about gender identity? Seriously. Quotes. Quotes. Quotes. Quotes. I have a real problem being held responsible for saying things I didn't say.


Posted by: Mr. Grumpy | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:41 PM
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A friend and I broke into our former school once, after it had been abandoned. We found a set of keys and golf clubs in the boiler room, and we went around smashing stuff--thermostats, globes, typewriters, System 80's. He took a shit on the library floor, and I dumped a bag of cement all over my fourth-grade classroom. Good times.


Posted by: Michael Vanderwheel, B.A. | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:44 PM
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And pack the nose cones of model rockets full of gunpowder?

Firecrackers, here. It's surprisingly hard to get the nose cone to stay on when the motor blows its parachute charge, though.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:45 PM
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240: You've seen this, right?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:46 PM
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240: Beyond py-mode? Not really...


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:46 PM
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Er, yes, python-mode. And C-c < / C-c > become very useful.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:47 PM
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Nerdily, we used to regularly crash the Corvus in the Apple II lab at my elementary school. A first act of malicious hacking, and all it took was about two lines of BASIC and ten minutes. Were that it were still so easy.. oh, hey, it is. Good deal.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:47 PM
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Oh no way, don't drag me into this shit..

This shit was initiated by you in 2 (except to the extend that ogged brought it up in his original post). If you don't want to talk about something, one approach would be to not bring it up.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:49 PM
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248 is obviously true.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:49 PM
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I think what happened was that as soon as the shit started to get stirred, Ogged and others realized that a discussion of backflips, explosions, and broken bones would be more entertaining than yet another session of comparative dongology. See comment 140. So even though the original post can easily be seen as a glaring invitation to rehearse the battle of the sexes yet again, those of us who took the invitation were insufficiently attentive to subtext.

Also, B and Emerson get a free pass for all shit-stirring because they are B and Emerson. Gradually, one learns the mores of this strange imaginary place.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:55 PM
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244, 245: Thanks. Anything worth sticking in the .emacs?


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:56 PM
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Also, B and Emerson get a free pass for all shit-stirring because they are B and Emerson.

If they would just stick to stirring each other's, the rest of us could get on with the serious work here. That being reminiscences of our unexciting childhoods.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:57 PM
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At least until we reached the age when those explosions would stop being fun.

During the riotous end-of-year celebration where I went to school, chem majors used to nick a log of sodium from the chem building and drop it off a bridge into our local big river. Ker-plash, BOOOM!


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:58 PM
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250: Also, comparitive dongology would have been more welcome if, through no real fault of Ned's own, 18 and 106 were not gigantic bullshit. The pool, she has been pissed in, so to speak. As far as I am concerned, I certainly can't contribute anything productive to this thread without either a) devolving into all caps or b) offering up a lot of painful personal history of both myself and my loved ones on the altar of being "reasonable" and "consciousness raising", and frankly, fuck that all with a stick, I'm talking about backflips and editor modes.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 9:59 PM
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Oh, sodium is super fun. A friend gave me a bunch after he decided he wasn't allowed to have it anymore.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:01 PM
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"Backflip" certainly should be an editor mode, much as it should be a cat trick and a state of mind.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:02 PM
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MEN GOT THIS COUNTRY INTO THE MESS IT'S IN


Posted by: OPINIONATED GRANDMA | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:03 PM
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248 and 249, did you not read my 8?

But if you insist, I'll agree that you boys lack agency and the ability to control what comes out of your mouths, sure. You can't help yourselves, any more than you can help checking out women's asses. Poor dears.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:06 PM
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Before comparative dongology becomes Officially Banned, let me try to slip in one last on-topic comment -

An excellent training program for attaining elite levels of gaze control is to 1) be a dude, 2) be into dudes, 3) be expected to to get naked with dudes periodically throughout puberty and adolescence without being observed collecting any dongological data (you have to start training young if you really want to be competitive!) and 4) believe that some unspecified but certainly bad combination of humiliation and asskicking would be the result of being identified as a born dongological talent.

fMRI studies of such individuals reveal that the Frontal Eye Fields have nearly taken over the brain, competing for cortical real estate only with robustly expanding representations across the Left Inferior Furtive Masturbatory gyrus.

As an alumnus of this program, while I can empathize with the original post, I've experienced the opposite problem: I actually had to learn to relax and enjoy those "Hey, lookin' don't hurt nothin'" moments. Which I notice has become easier as I get older/dirtier.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:06 PM
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I've suspected for a while that Opinionated Grandma's got a diving board you can do backflips from.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:07 PM
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250: Gradually, one learns the mores of this strange imaginary place.

Your judgment on this is obviously correct, and I will take the appropriate instruction.

Many people had the intellectual capacity to enjoy the Algonquin Roundtable, but relatively few were intellectually equipped to participate in it. I may need to return to lurking for a bit.


Posted by: Mr. Grumpy | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:08 PM
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I actually had to learn to relax and enjoy those "Hey, lookin' don't hurt nothin'" moments. Which I notice has become easier as I get older/dirtier.

Right there with you.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:08 PM
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255: It's amazing how explosive it is. The first time I saw the reaction demonstrated, it was a tiny bit, maybe an eighth the size of a pencil eraser, and it put paid to a large beaker of water with an impressive bang. These logs were maybe a couple of pounds, IIRC.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:09 PM
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That kid who almost built a breeder reactor in his back yard makes all crazy teen stories otiose. That said, backflips are probably more fun than nuclear reactors.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:11 PM
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diving board
my new favorite ambiguously dirty euphemism.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:11 PM
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theory: the theory that women don't care as much about how men look is championed by unattractive looking men.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:11 PM
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Text, though it will pain you, I note that B Weiner-pwned you in 184.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:12 PM
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I wasn't a kid any more, just young and stupid, when a friend and I made art of a frozen waterfall with food coloring, using a .38 to correct mistakes.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:13 PM
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259:Left Inferior Furtive Masturbatory gyrus.

That's the one with the inhibitory connections from the Oh Shit Mom nuclei, right?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:14 PM
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258: geez, B, could you be any more heavy handed?Actually, wait, don't answer that.

261: no, I think you have to get banned like ten times before that's required.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:15 PM
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theory: the theory that women don't care as much about how men look is championed by unattractive looking men.

In response to this, 146, and 184, it seems that since there are more women who go to the effort of making themselves look attractive, then men would be more likely than women, in a given day, to perform an act of ogling, simply because there are more ogling targets who stand out from the crowd.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:15 PM
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264: that story is 100% the best ever. Some of the hacker stories I've heard are almost equally terrifying, though.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:15 PM
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though it will pain you

or rather, because it pains me. and it does.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:16 PM
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But if you insist, I'll agree that you boys lack agency and the ability to control what comes out of your mouths, sure. You can't help yourselves, any more than women can help checking out your asses. Poor dears.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:17 PM
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You wound me, sir.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:17 PM
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since there are more women who go to the effort of making themselves look attractive

You make it sound so . . . voluntary. What planet are you living on?


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:17 PM
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I don't think 264 used "otiose" correct.

That's one of my favorite words to come across in a written piece of invective, along with "catastrophic", "inept", "odious" and "lassitude".


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:18 PM
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I'm not sure if I agree that men ogle more. It may be that we're just not very subtle. But we might ogle more, and if so, 271 would be a good justification. Ogle on.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:18 PM
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I don't think 264 used "otiose" correct.

To quote our great president, "Who cares what you think?" Anyway, I believe it to be correct.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:21 PM
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the theory that women don't care as much about how men look is championed by unattractive looking men.

On the contrary, unattractive people are the most keenly aware of how the opposite sex judges looks.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:22 PM
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Ogling, otiose, obfuscated by ovaries? Obviated by onanism? Obnoxious optical occasions: ongoing.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:23 PM
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On the veldt, men who weren't very good looking needed a story to tell themselves to demonstrate that their wives weren't sleeping with other men. And so it was decided that women care more about resources than looks.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:25 PM
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...and 281 wins the dong portion of the thread.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:28 PM
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Anything worth sticking in the .emacs?

Hell if I know... posting that link exhausted my knowledge of emacs vis-a-vis Python. I'm a vim boy myself.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:30 PM
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theory: the theory that women don't care as much about how men look is championed by unattractive looking men.

Dammit, I really will shut up after this comment, but you are discussing an area of my personal expertise.

Us unnattractive men do not champion this theory. Nor is it, as B in 184 would have it, a matter of wishful thinking. We experience this fact. Women, in general, cut unnattractive men a lot of slack.


Posted by: Mr. Grumpy | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:31 PM
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284: vim! Vigor! Wit! Lightweight interface! One needs nothing more.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:33 PM
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It's not 1985 anymore, people. Computers have more than eight megabytes of memory and enough cpu speed to process event loops.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:34 PM
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I did not do any backflips, but as a teenager I did swim in an unfrozen mountain lake that had snow melting directly into it.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:35 PM
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Bah. 285 is pwned by 280. Good night.


Posted by: Mr. Grumpy | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:36 PM
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Goddamit. I'm going to stop talking about computers on unfogged. Talking about subverting my own self-interest.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:38 PM
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It's not 1985 anymore, people. Computers have more than eight megabytes of memory and enough cpu speed to process event loops

It is thoughts like this that cause people to have to upgrade their computer every two years to run their operating system.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:39 PM
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Another humbling backflip video.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:39 PM
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Moore's Law is keeping you down, man! Stand up to the jackboots of forced progress! Yesterday for tomorrow! Yesterday forever!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:40 PM
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It's not 1985 anymore, people. Computers have more than eight megabytes of memory and enough cpu speed to process event loops.

Yes, but I *already* have an operating system on my computer. Why do I want to add another just to edit text?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:44 PM
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291: It is thoughts like this that cause people to have to upgrade their computer every two years to run their operating system.

Well, that, and porno videogames porno.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:45 PM
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We're not talking about Gizmodo, Lunar.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:46 PM
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Why do I want to add another just to edit text?

And read mail, and execute code, and manage version control, and browse the web, and irc. Besides, vim runs away if you lose the terminal, and for god knows what reason was dumpingg core when I tried to edit commit messages.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:49 PM
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It is thoughts like this that cause people to have to upgrade their computer every two years to run their operating system.

Is there any way to buy a new computer that is A) not a Mac, and B) not pre-loaded with Windows Vista? This may finally cause me to make the leap to Macs.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:49 PM
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I think Dell sells computers loaded with XP or Linux. I'm also pretty sure that IBM does. But you should buy a Mac anyway.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:51 PM
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300!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:52 PM
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Is there any way to buy a new computer that is A) not a Mac, and B) not pre-loaded with Windows Vista? This may finally cause me to make the leap to Macs.

Funny, my uncle called me a few hours ago with his new computer/Vista problems. My answer: do you still have your XP disks? And yeah, I've resolved that my next laptop will be a mac, and I'll just load Windows in Parallels if I really need it.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:52 PM
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Women, in general, cut unnattractive men a lot of slack.

Possibly. Or possibly it's just a difference in how men and women perceive male attractiveness.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:53 PM
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298: Sure.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:53 PM
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And read mail, and execute code, and manage version control, and browse the web, and irc.

I think you're proving my point.

Besides, vim runs away if you lose the terminal

Behold the magic of "screen". I don't run anything that's not automatically power-detached.

and for god knows what reason was dumpingg core when I tried to edit commit messages.

Maybe it saw what you were trying to commit...


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 10:55 PM
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298: Here, too. But honestly, if you're not comfortable making a box from scratch (which is way easier than it sounds), you'll probably be better off with a Mac. Or just finding somewhere that still ships boxes with XP. Alienware definitely does.

I think Emacs wins just for being the gateway drug to LISP or Scheme for a lot of people.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:01 PM
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Text, it'll make you feel better to know that your 282 pwned what was going to be my next comment. If only I hadn't had to eat dinner!


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:03 PM
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Also: emacsclient kicks the crap out of anything vim has by a mile.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:03 PM
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I've resolved that my next laptop will be a mac

Sowly, slowly, Ogged is beginning to realize the errors of his ways.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:06 PM
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On the veldt, people who said things that other people had already said found slightly new ways of saying them a third time, so that when the first person came back from dinner . . .


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:07 PM
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No, no. That wasn't the veldt. They came up with that after the invention of the staircase.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:09 PM
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I think Emacs wins just for being the gateway drug to LISP or Scheme for a lot of people.

You and I have different ideas of winning.

Also: emacsclient kicks the crap out of anything vim has by a mile.

Text editors shouldn't need a client server model.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:09 PM
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On the veldt, when a person needed to get away from the computer, there was no place to go. And thus, the staircase.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:10 PM
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Also: emacsclient kicks the crap out of anything vim has by a mile.

I'm not seeing the attraction. To the extent I want to edit multiple files in the same process, vim already pretty much does that... but I don't find myself wanting to do that very often. (Well, actually, I've never found myself wanting to do that.)


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:12 PM
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Maybe it saw what you were trying to commit.

I think that time I was actually fixing something that was seriously broken. Of course, I then changed the shared not-quite-root account's .profile to include export EDITOR=emacs and waited to see how long it was before someone noticed.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:12 PM
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And now some of us have regressed, and live in ranch houses without stairs. Thus we witness the decline of civilization.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:13 PM
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The people who lived in ranch houses on the veldt spent all their time on the computer, and so did not notice the sabertoothgiantslothlions. And so, ranch houses were contraindicated.

Things evened out in the Great Staircase Cooling Period.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:17 PM
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I've suspected for a while that Opinionated Grandma's got a diving board you can do backflips from.

Another unprovoked obnoxious comment questioning someone's gender identity?


Posted by: Margaret Thatcher | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:20 PM
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But I thought that living in ranch houses was the ne plus ultra of traditional gender role division! Now I'm just confused.

If only I had a staircase to go to, where I might be able to think.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:29 PM
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Maybe there's one you can pull down from the ceiling to get into the attic?


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:39 PM
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We don't have an attic. There's a step from the porch to the walkway, I wonder if that would count. Maybe if I kept stepping on it, like an aerobics class or something.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:43 PM
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Stairs leading out of the pool?


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:49 PM
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If I had a pool, do you think I'd spend so much time online? Hardly.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:52 PM
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This is why they invented the inflatable lounge chair with a cup holder and laptop platform. Where do you think I post from all day?


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:53 PM
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Fuck. You're just trying to make it harder for me to find an affordable house once we start looking, aren't you?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:54 PM
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Though come to think of it, the odds that PK would let me get away with that are zero.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-25-07 11:56 PM
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I feel your pain on the affordable houses. It's even worse because rents are so much cheaper, especially with roommates, so anything I can remotely afford is not nearly as nice as what I can rent.

But you can always be delightfully retro and install an above-ground pool.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:01 AM
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I just saw Armsmasher leave Blackcat.

His girlfriend is much better looking than him.

Sorry smasher

Regards,

Long time lurker short time admirer of your girlfriend


Posted by: aker rul | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:08 AM
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234: Know of any particularly nifty python-related things I should be aware of, beyond the obvious?

I'm not Jake, of course, but Pymacs is pretty nifty.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:11 AM
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you can always be delightfully retro and install an above-ground pool.

Don't think I'm not seriously considering this.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:13 AM
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His girlfriend is much better looking than him.

This is so true.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:14 AM
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Also, the kid who "almost" built a breeder reactor is totally pwnd by the scavhunt team that really did build a nuclear reactor.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:15 AM
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Also, the kid who "almost" built a breeder reactor is totally pwnd by the scavhunt team that really did build a nuclear reactor.

And the kid in that John Lithgow movie


Posted by: aker rul | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:19 AM
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In order to catch up

1) Is Bitch PhD a PhD in Philosophy?

2) Is Ben w-lfs-n getting a PhD in Philosophy?

3) Is Ogged a J.D.? If so, did he recieve his PhD from U of C?

Sorry, but I'm on vacation and decided to ask some questions that would provide answers that weren't obvious to me

Being a lurker is a tough gig


Posted by: aker rul | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:23 AM
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333.1 Dear god, no.
2. Yes
3. Dear god, no.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:27 AM
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Catch up to what?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:30 AM
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328: See, I knew my ghetto version of Ask the Mineshaft would come in handy! Much love, B-dub.

327: Long time lurker short time admirer of your girlfriend

The Unfogged commenter who may or may not exist wishes me to inform you that he finds the above fuckin' hilarious.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:30 AM
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Clever analysis of "aker rul"'s name has revealed to me his (for, as we shall see, he is a he) identity or perhaps character type. Each component of the "nick" must be decoded. In the first case it's simply rotational: "aker" becomes "rake". The second is reversed: "rul" becomes "lur". And then the whole thing is reversed, yielding "lur rake": a dashing Persian type.

Ogged! We've found out who's stealing your wimmins!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:32 AM
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This semi-existing person is right about that one, for sure.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:33 AM
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Follow up

1) What did Bitch PhD get a PhD in?

2) Ogged is just a businessman? How boring

3) Can someone explain why 14th between T and U sucks so much? I went out there the last three nights and it was dreadful
(outside of seeing Armsmasher and his girlfriend of course; they looked very interesting, but there was no scheduled meetup so I figured a bad time to make introductions)


Posted by: aker rul | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:34 AM
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337: I bet he's got a real personal style, too, the sneaky lothario.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:34 AM
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339:2: At the risk of violating the sanctity of off-blog communication, no, not really.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:36 AM
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339.1: That is officially unknown. I am an expert in bra and shoe studies, though.
339.2: Still incorrect.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:36 AM
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Ogged is an eternal archetype.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:40 AM
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Aker,

I'm going to tell you something that I was once told by a teacher of mine, something not unlike what you might have heard Laurence Fishburne tell Keanu Reeves in the first Matrix movie.

What distinguishes a true teacher a source of answers? The question is sharper in the case of a subject such as high school mathematics, in which often the textbooks have answers to the problems posed at the back. If you just wanted to know the answers, you could just look there! What does the teacher provide in addition?

Surely the real answer is that the teacher provides many things. But one of the chief services a teacher can perform on a student's behalf is the guidance of that student's inquiry into productive channels. Letting the student know, not when s/h has given the right answers, but when s/h has posed the right questions—and then watching as the student asks more questions.

So I cannot tell you what bitchphd's degree is in, not because I do not know (though I don't), but because it would do you a disservice. Nor can I tell you how ogged earns his daily bread, for the same reason. I can only confirm that you're asking good questions. The answers you'll have to find for yourself.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:41 AM
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Where we weren't allowed to do backflips, obviously

sigh ...

three old men sitting around in a retirement home in Florida.

"God it's been a good life", says the first. "The thing that stays in my memory is the war, when I fought with Tito's partisans. We killed dozens of Nazis".

"Ahhh yeah", says the second. "I was in the French Resistance. We blew up a train with a hundred Nazi soldiers on it!"

"You are soooo lucky", says the third. "In Holland that was not allowed".

In unrelated news, I went to the opera the other night - I actually went in my suit because I had to go straight from work. There appear to be a lot more birds looking at me these days as I am now embracing my inner 70s dude and have my natural curly hair rather than a banker's haircut.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:41 AM
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w-lfs-n, of course, went into his Ph.D. program in philosophy directly after his Master's in Being A Little Bitch.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:42 AM
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In Soviet Russia, birds watch you!


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:43 AM
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An M.B.A.L.B. with concentrations in spoon bending and trenchcoasts, apparently.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:45 AM
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I went to the opera the other night - I actually went in my suit because I had to go straight from work. There appear to be a lot more birds looking at me these days as I am now embracing my inner 70s dude and have my natural curly hair rather than a banker's haircut.

I'm sure the suit doesn't hurt, but this is exactly right.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:47 AM
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I had the feeling that Ogged had become a lawyer over the last few years though the listed biography didn't acknowledge it. I apologize for digging

Ben, I'm sorry for asking silly questions.

I'm sure you can forgive a lack of creativity when it came to the name. It's unique as far as I can tell, and that seems to be the most important criteria



Posted by: aker rul | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:49 AM
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w-lfs-n is not only a little bitch, he is a liar. He does too know what my degree is in. He has consulted my expertise, as it is difficult to find non-judgmental salespeople in PA.

Now that he's moved to SF I anticipate being far less troubled by his constant queries, thank god.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:50 AM
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You might also consider "A Lur Cur" if you're going to do this whole "Racer X is secretly speed's older brother!" thing with ogged.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 12:51 AM
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re: being checked out, etc.

I'm still fairly sure I occasionally* get checked out by women, and I'm a fat(ish) balding(ish) bloke. Anyone who thinks women don't do it a lot is on crack.

* although much less than say, 10 years ago. Of course I could be delusional, or they could just be wrinkling their nose at the insane body odour of which I am unaware, or something.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 1:17 AM
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aker rul, Ogged is in fact a 19yo lifeguard who channels the spirit of Cyrus the Great when the inspiration descends upon him. He will conquer Babylon after the summer when it's cooler and he can get out of the pool. It's better you don't know what B's PhD is in, or the DHS will start taking an interest in you.

ttaM, I'm sure you get checked out all the time. I get sweet young things smiling and making extended eye contact several times a week, and I'm an elderly, obese cripple. In fact I'm reaching the age where I'm beginning to wish they'd stop it.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 4:00 AM
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There's a spring-fed pool in Austin, is there not? I want to swim there.

Yep. Barton Springs Pool. It's lovely, and great for laps because it's something like several hundred yards long. It is very ass-freezing though, about 68 degrees year-round. And it's been closed a lot lately due to all the runoff from all the rain.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 5:16 AM
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355 was me.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 5:47 AM
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Did someone mention affordable houses? Estimated payment $32 / month. (Perhaps the $7000 house I listed earlier was too spendy for some of you.)


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 5:58 AM
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Does it come with a pool? I can't tell from the picture.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 6:12 AM
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Oddly enough I had to stop myself from staring at a guy when I was getting out of the swimming pool on Monday (I am a very very bad swimmer and every so often take lessons over the course of which I improve infinitesmally). I didn't even get a proper look at him, just registered "whoah" and then looked away instantly so that I wouldn't be caught. Mainly because I would feel humiliated to be caught checking out someone a lot hotter than I am, like I have no entitlement to even think of such people that way.


Posted by: emir | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 6:16 AM
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No, but it has indoor plumbing and oil heat. No more chopping wood! No more trips to the outhouse at 30 below with a 20 mile wind! This is a modern house.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 6:19 AM
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One permanent holdover from growing up in Berkeley is my inability to remember that staring at people is wrong.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 6:31 AM
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One permanent holdover from growing up in Berkeley is my inability to remember that staring at people is wrong.

The staring is ok. But you need to stop licking your lips while you stare.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 6:33 AM
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No, but it has indoor plumbing and oil heat. No more chopping wood!

You say that like it's a good thing. How is one supposed to have everyday spiritual adventures in such a house?

. . . like I have no entitlement to even think of such people that way.

Now that's an attitude that I wouldn't expect from an emir.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 6:33 AM
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Emacsclient in this thread looked liked "emasculent," a class of specific substances I had never heard of, allthough easily hypothesized.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 6:43 AM
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But you need to stop licking your lips while you stare.

I tend not to stare at people I desire---too self-conscious! Instead, I stare at the guy with the weird bulgy muscles and stretchmarks, or the old lady with the interesting varicose veins, or the girl with the awesome jeans I covet....


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 6:45 AM
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Let's start an early morning betting pool on what today's Unfogged posts will cover. I'd wager there are excellent chances for both a Tour de France and an Alberto Gonzalez post.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 6:46 AM
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I think we're long overdue for another hot-or-not thread.


Posted by: DaveB | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 6:52 AM
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Tour de France: not hot
Alberto Gonzalez: not hot


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 6:53 AM
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or the girl with the awesome jeans I covet

Surely coveting awesome jeans was not a value instilled in you in Berkeley?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 6:54 AM
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What did Bitch PhD get a PhD in?

Architecture.


Posted by: Louise Wong | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 6:56 AM
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PhDs in architecture: hot
BitchPhD: not hot
hot or not threads: not hot


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 6:59 AM
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Surely coveting awesome jeans was not a value instilled in you in Berkeley?

In Berkeley, clothes fall into the To Be paradigm; it wasn't until later that I learned to To Have paradigm. So staring at a person's jeans back then was to cast about for a new and better identity: typical hippie quest narrative.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 6:59 AM
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I once lusted after a hippie who was wearing only a scanty little paradigm shift.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 7:04 AM
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Now that's an attitude that I wouldn't expect from an emir.

I blame it on being raised by humble peasant foster parents.


Posted by: emir | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 7:05 AM
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374: While your evil double lived it up in the emir's palace, lusting at will, no doubt. So sad.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 7:07 AM
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I just saw Armsmasher leave Blackcat.

His girlfriend is much better looking than him.

Well, this just tells you. 30 times as attractive as any other man in his profession, and yet not as attractive as his own girlfriend.

I'm still fairly sure I occasionally* get checked out by women, and I'm a fat(ish) balding(ish) bloke. Anyone who thinks women don't do it a lot is on crack.

Much as in this situation, I assume that I have probably been checked out at least once in my life, but have never been aware of it happening.

And I'm not hideously deformed or anything. Am I? Help!


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 7:36 AM
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DAMMIT can someone PLEASE set it so it doesn't close all tags at the end of every paragraph? Just doing it at the end of every post should be protection enough.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 7:42 AM
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You know who women really check out? Three-year olds (dogs, horses, toddlers). My grandnephew can take over a roomful of women in the snap of a finger.

The women tend not to be hott 25-year-olds, of course, since sex education has taught them all to view babies as preventable diseases.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 7:44 AM
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377: Use your <p> tags, byatch.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 7:45 AM
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354: Finally, I get the recognition I deserve!

(Yes, I know what it's actually referring to. But it feels like so few other people do, that when someone does know, I enjoy it.)


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:03 AM
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Gonzalez

Arrgh.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:04 AM
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Teo, I think you're being unfair to people who presume "Gonzales" has a Z on the end. If you search for "Gonzale" at baseball-reference.com, you get 5 Gonzaleses, the last of whom retired in 1997, and 28 Gonzalezes, 8 of whom are currently active. I would have bet a lot of money that the Z spelling is the standard one, until reading your post anyway.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:09 AM
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What distinguishes a true teacher a source of answers?

My kid and I have really been enjoying Kung Fu on DVD.
David Carradine was apparently stoned much of the time.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:21 AM
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In my current job I deal with metric shitloads of documents from people with the last name of Gonzale*, and I'm pretty sure I see a lot more with a "z" on the end than with an "s". Often within the same family different members with the same paternal or maternal last name will spell it differently from each other, and I even sometimes see people who spell Gonzale* one way on one form and another way on another form, mailed in the same envelope.

That said, thanks for reminding me that dear Alberto uses the "Gonzales" version.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:21 AM
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and I even sometimes see people who spell Gonzale* one way on one form and another way on another form, mailed in the same envelope.

To be clearer, I mean they spell their own name two different ways.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:23 AM
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It all just goes to show that transliteration from the original Mexican is a tricky business, what with the pinyin system preferring an "s" for the sound at the end of Alberto's last name, and Wade-Giles favoring a "z".


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:26 AM
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We know a Lat/vian named Gonzalez (2 Zs). I'm not sure whether this is a case of a long-ago Spanish emigrant to the Baltic states, or convergent linguistic evolution (that seems unlikelier, doesn't it?). I mention this just because it's great, not because it sheds light on anything.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:26 AM
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387: Watch for Emerson to connect it with the Tatars.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:30 AM
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Latvians, Mexicans, same thing.

Say rfts, I've been meaning to ask for awhile if you're still making that NYT no-knead bread very often, and if so, whether you have any more modifications/improvements to it that you'd like to share.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:32 AM
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This is probably a good place to note that for a while, people in college called me Lopez.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:37 AM
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Alas, sorry, I haven't been -- this time of year, especially, I tend to skip out on baking, and when I have made bread since then, I've gone back to my old method. It's more work (though honestly not all that much work), but I do just like it better.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:38 AM
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390: Some kind of bureacratic screw-up whereby you were given the wrong name tag?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:39 AM
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LB used to wear a big condom over her left eye and a gigantic pacifier around her neck, actually.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:41 AM
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Nah, I was bitching about the Midwestern blandness of the Mexican food at a burrito place people I knew went to, and it was noted that I was not ethnically entitled to so bitch. When later in the conversation someone I'd just met asked my last name, I said it was Lopez, and it stuck.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:43 AM
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Was it Maravillas?


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:46 AM
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Times have changed, Lopez. College City is now considered to have the most authentic and vibrant Mexican regional food by many experts. Often in storefronts and wonderfully cheap and good. College neighborhood, otoh, still has nothing very authentic besides Harold's.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:48 AM
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Was it Taco Bell?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:50 AM
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I only knew the place as 'Steak Burrito' -- it may have had a real name. Someplace south of Hyde Park.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:51 AM
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Did you think outside the bun?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:51 AM
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I've been playing around with it a lot lately and have gotten to where I mix it in a bowl, let it sit out at room temp for a few hours (say 3 to 6), then fridge it for anywhere from 12 to 24 hours or so, depending on what else is going on in my life, then take it back out to come back to around room temp (2 to 5 hours approx.), then dump it in the pre-heated dutch oven and bake.

That way I never even have to touch the dough with my hands or dirty up any surface or container other than the bowl, a wooden spoon, and a rubber spatula. And it comes out good consistently, both in shape and taste. It doesn't seem to suffer at all from not being allowed to rise into shape outside the bowl.

I've generally been making it in a ratio of about 3 parts bread flour, 2 parts whole wheat, and 1 part rye. The long cold rise does noticably improve the flavor and texture. I also have been making the dough even wetter than in the recipe, and never adding any extra flour after the initial mixing, since I don't have to handle the dough except in the bowl with a rubber spatula.

Because it's so easy and muss free, I've been making bread every other day or so lately. However, I do actually miss the kneading and shaping aspects of bread-making, and I think that it's possible to produce a superior product that way, though it's not as foolproof as the no-knead recipe. I may try to switch to a schedule of making "real bread" on the weekend and doing the no-knead stuff during the week.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:51 AM
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I have to return to the original topic for just a moment.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:51 AM
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M/tch is a total buzzkill.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:52 AM
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402: Nuh uh.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:55 AM
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Did someone say something? I'm sorry, I was trying to have a good time.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:57 AM
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Mitch is buzzkill lite -- about 55%.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:59 AM
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404: How can you try to have a good time with all that's going on in the world? Haven't you heard the latest about the Tour de France? And Alberto Gonzales??


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:59 AM
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Harold's.

Southside food is nasty. Although, in fairness, Northside food isn't so great either now that Fluky's is gone. Tacos al lengua?


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:59 AM
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""M/tch""


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:59 AM
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Dude. Here in the heart if NC, we do Mexican food right.

Apo, if you've never been, well, go.


PS -- Anyone who's ever been there will be utterly SHOCKED that they have a website.


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:02 AM
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WHY WON'T IT STOP RAINING I'M GOING INSANE.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:03 AM
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It's my window, I can't stand the rain. (Me I'm supa-fly, supa-dupa-fly.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:04 AM
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Haven't you heard the latest about the Tour de France? And Alberto Gonzales??

I think Gonzales has been blood doping. There's no way a guy could lie so strenuously for such an extended period without medical assistance.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:04 AM
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413

heebie-geebie: not hot


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:06 AM
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414

I'm too hot to handle, too cold to hold. I'm called The GhostBusters and I'm in control. Had a throwin' party for a bunch of children. All the while, slime was under the buildin'.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:08 AM
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415

This is probably a good place to note that for a while, people in college called me Lopez.

I'm now beginning to suspect that is was La Raza cronyism that got you this Unfogged gig.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:08 AM
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416

412: Red blood cells from young and eager DoJ underlings, or straight for the erythropoietin?

The man is an ass.


Posted by: Roamsedge | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:14 AM
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417

Mathematicians get that way sometime. Maybe we can get her started on the Tower of Hanoi problem. That will keep her occupied for awhile. Or the Bridges of Konigsberg,


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:14 AM
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418

No elementary graph theory will keep this mathemonster down.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:16 AM
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419

Heebie, I've heard that the circle has recently been proved squarable. Go to it.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:18 AM
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420

I wouldn't trust Time Cube without another source, John.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:20 AM
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421

Think outside the box, Ned.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:20 AM
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422

The Time Box?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:21 AM
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423

I heard there's a new seven-layer Time Cube, wrapped in a crispy flour tortilla, that's good to go.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:22 AM
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424

I'll square your circle, yeah! And you can take that all the way to the bank.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:23 AM
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425

The blood bank.


Posted by: Vtupyiv Nrf | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:24 AM
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426
Nevertheless, it appears that the chief claim of Ray's ideas relates to the "simultaneous" existence of four days within a single rotation of Earth and the subsequent inference that the planet itself is not a physical "entity", as its hemispheres actually rotate in opposite directions and cancel out, as antipodes.

Doesn't everyone know that? I thought this guy was original and different.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:24 AM
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427

424: you left out the word "deposit" in between "that" and "all".


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:25 AM
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428

424: all the way to the bank

In Konigsberg, of course, so long as he crosses each of the 7 bridges once.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:26 AM
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429

428: And remember, smaller bridges can be stacked on top of larger bridges, but larger bridges cannot be stacked on top of smaller bridges.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:29 AM
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430

And if the terrain is orange, you have to lay your block sideways because if you stand it on end, the orange brick will crumble from the weight.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:31 AM
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431

Heebie may have the best ass of any mathematician in history.

The people talking up Leibniz's ass are completely full of it.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:35 AM
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432

Maybe it's the sleep deprivation talking, but I think 414 may be the most excellent comment in the history of the Internets.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:35 AM
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433

Thanks DS; 414 was me.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:36 AM
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434

Oh no, wait, which 414 are you referring to?


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:37 AM
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435

I get very confused when people don't follow the house style.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:37 AM
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436

If my rhyme was a drug, I'd sell it by the gram.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:38 AM
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437

John that house is fantastic.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:38 AM
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438

This thread's gone pretty off-topic, right? And this seems right up Unfogged's alley, doesn't it?


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:39 AM
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439

432: It's the powerful magnetic effect of heebie's bottom on your "little metal filings", IYKWIM.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:40 AM
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440

Awesome mrh.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:40 AM
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441

There may be competition.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:42 AM
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442

435: House style: henceforth all good comments will be credited to Brock. Got it. (Sorry, heebie.)


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:44 AM
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443

But...I thought we were friends, DS. Sometimes I feel like I don't even know you anymore, man.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:48 AM
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444

Friends is friends. This is business.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:50 AM
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445

I think that that Gans lady got to him.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:50 AM
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446

Goddammit, it cut off my fake "Nino Brown" tags. I renounce Unfogged and all its works.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:51 AM
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447

House style is house style, heebie. You know the rules.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 9:52 AM
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448

And due to Unfogged low rambling nature, house style is ranch. Cool ranch.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:00 AM
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449

Unfogged's


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:00 AM
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450

It matches our salad dressing.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:01 AM
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451

448: Yum.


Posted by: NCProsecutor | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:01 AM
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452

450: No, house dressing it Russian.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:03 AM
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453

452 s/b "No, house dressing, it Russian."


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:04 AM
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454

Yum.

Oh, sure. Here you say "yum", but at my blog you're all "that's revolting".


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:06 AM
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455

Oh. Is Cool Ranch our Doritos flavor? I knew Unfogged had an official Doritos flavor, but I keep thinking Nacho Cheese for some reason. I think because LB is Hispanic.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:06 AM
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456

Is Cool Ranch our Doritos flavor?

No, frog leg and soy sauce.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:08 AM
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457

No house? Dressing it! (Russian.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:10 AM
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458

The official snack food of Unfogged is, of course, Flaming Hot Cheetos.

(Man, I so want a sound clip of that kid saying "when I eat them I go craaaaaaaazy" as a ringtone)


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:10 AM
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459

In Russian, salad dresses you!


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:11 AM
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460

456: That back pocket of yours is so amazing, apo.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:12 AM
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461

Hey, M/tch, and other baking types - I occasionally make pizza, and it turns out ok, except that the base looks fine but is kinda tasteless. Any thoughts on what might be wrong?


Posted by: emir | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:17 AM
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462

There are lots of hot mathematicians, John. It's your relentless humanities/Tatar bias that makes you think otherwise.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:19 AM
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461: I'm amazed that you presume you're entitled to tasty pizza crust, emir.

But anyways, what's in your pizza dough, and on what do you bake it?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:26 AM
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464

The official condiment of Unfogged is Tatar Sauce. And the official potato side dish is Tatar Tots.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:26 AM
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465

I occasionally make pizza, and it turns out ok, except that the base looks fine but is kinda tasteless.

The longer the rise, the better. Most pizzerias put their dough in the fridge the night before. This actually makes pizza an even better weeknight option.

Are you using olive oil in the dough? A pizza stone/clay tiles? Semolina on the baking surface for both release and textural variety?

You can always mix fresh herbs into the dough. And/or brush on garlic oil prior to adding sauce.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:28 AM
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466

465 is full of good suggestions. Also, upping the salt in the dough can make a huge difference. Just do it a little at a time until you find the level you like.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:30 AM
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467

The longer the rise, the better.

Specifically, a long, slow, cold rise.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:31 AM
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468

Also, for pizza crust, you should do like that reverse-engineering piiza nerd from NY and hack your oven so it can break 800 degrees.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:35 AM
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469

Didn't Lopez know about Pilsen?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:36 AM
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470

BitchPhD: not hot

Did you think I wouldn't see this, Ttam?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:44 AM
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471

M/tch, can you give some quantities/proportions for how you're making the bread?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 10:44 AM
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472

Good call on the salt, M/tch.

But don't salt it so much that you can't sprinkle a little big-crystal salt on the edge for extra-tastiness.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 11:03 AM
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473

Dammit M/tch! Tell me how to make bread!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 11:03 AM
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M/tch & JRoth:

Dough - strong white flour, yeast, water, salt, olive oil. I'll try a long rise the next time, though my fridge is very short on space. I probably will up the salt too as my taste is for salty things. I use a pizza stone but not semolina (I'd have to hunt for it in the shops). Fresh herbs sound like a good idea. Garlic, otoh, makes me queasy.

Thanks for all the suggestions.


Posted by: emir | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 11:04 AM
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So, SO true about the salt. Higher levels of salt also retard the action of the yeast, allowing you to have a longer slower rise/ferment.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 11:06 AM
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476

Useful thoughts on making pizza.

A recipe I like, despite its lack of long rising time, found because of the abovelinked Grub Report piece. I generally make a batch, divide into quarters, and freeze the lot. Using a rolling pin, as he suggests, is sacrilege, but sometimes I do it anyway. Preheating the stone for a long time helps. Using only 1/4 cup of sauce for each 10" pizza is good too.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 11:12 AM
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477

Instead of semolina, I often form my pizza on a piece of baking parchment and then slide the whole deal, dough and parchment together, directly onto the baking tiles. Again, sacrilegious, but tidy, and the crust is still excellent.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 11:14 AM
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478

Didn't Lopez know about Pilsen?

Only people blinded by the snobbery of an "authenticity" cult believe that ethnic types only produce good food within their homogeneous enclaves. There are good taquerias in most neighborhoods. (Except for downtown, dammit!)


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 11:35 AM
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470: Yeah, I can't believe Ttam thought he would get away with that!

471: The recipe is three cups of flour. So usually I'll do 1 & 1/2 cups white or bread flour, 1 cup whole wheat flour, and 1/2 cup rye floor.

For a lighter version, I'll do 2 cups white, 2/3 cup wheat, 1/3 cup rye.

I put in a little less than 1 tablespoon of salt, and I use the La Baleine coarse crystal sea salt.

As for water, if I remember correctly the recipe calls for something like 1 & 5/8 cup water, and I always add at least 1 & 3/4. But basically I just keep adding water till it looks about right to me, i.e. very wet but it still holds together some.

As should be obvious, I'm pretty slapdash with this recipe. I don't weigh out the ingredients, but I use a consistent method of measuring the volume of the flours, and then add water till the consistency is "correct" so I get a pretty steady ratio of everything every time.

Any other questions?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 11:38 AM
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Sure. There were good taquerias all around Wicker Park, near the blue line stop and if you go down to Division (taquerias and more!). But there isn't a whole hell of a lot going on in Hyde Park, and Pilsen's right over there, so instead of complaining she shoulda gotten up off her fannie and done something about it.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 11:39 AM
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481

You put any yeast in there, M/tch?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 11:40 AM
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482

481: Oh, um, yeah. I usually put about half what the recipe calls for. I think the recipe calls for 1/4 teaspoon. I use less because with such a long rising time you don't need that much and I think having the rise progress more slowly improves the end product.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 11:47 AM
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483

is that Yglesias in the 2nd pic ?


Posted by: cleek | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:18 PM
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484

It's Yglesias ogling catherine.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-26-07 8:19 PM
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