Re: You are who you eat.

1

They've made themselves sick, in my mother's argot.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 12:58 PM
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I'd be much more put off by someone who ate a lot of asparagus.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 12:58 PM
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3

I am bacon.


Posted by: Roamsedge | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:04 PM
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4

3: c'mon over to my house!


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:05 PM
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5

mcmc really is man-hungry.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:07 PM
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How far does one go with this? Most vegetarians aren't lifers, and even fewer vegans are, so we all have some percentage of our bodies that were built at the expense of The Animals. Do they take a dietary history before hitting the sheets, or is having been a veg[etari]an long enough to get the meat reek off of you enough to qualify?


Posted by: Magpie | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:09 PM
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Doesn't this sound like one of those "news" items based on about three people's practices? Everyone I know who's vegetarian or vegan does have to negotiate eating habits when starting a new relationship, but that's a bit different.

...I could write any number of "those wacky left-wingers" stories if I took anything anyone ever said as evidence of a trend: "The left believes that it's propertairian not to sleep with anyone who asks!" "The left won't sleep under wool blankets because they exploit sheep!"


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:10 PM
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Does this mean that vegansexuals don't swallow? Cause sperm has protein in it. Animal product, etc.

All our bodies are graveyards for microorganisms and parasites of various kinds. Why isn't that an issue?

Not to mention the dead animals that went into growing the plants and mushrooms.


Posted by: Timothy Burke | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:11 PM
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New Zealand? New phenomenon??

Go spend time with any group of committed vegetarians (or especially vegans), and you'll find plenty of people--most?--who feel exactly the same way.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:11 PM
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4: Looks like it would be a long trip, but fun!

Wow, I'm so glad my brief experiment with veganism is long past. It was college, man, everybody was doing it.


Posted by: Roamsedge | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:12 PM
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One shouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the crazy, Tim.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:12 PM
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8: it's all about consent, Tim.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:12 PM
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"Vegetarians" should probably be stricken from 9. Mostly a vegan thing, although I think many vegetarians have strong preferences for other vegetarians.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:14 PM
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I never really did get the ethical distinction between killing plants and killing animals. IMO, the only ethically sound diet is cannibalism, on the grounds that only man is vile.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:14 PM
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You are whom you eat.
/lostcause

My wife says no one under forty usese whom at all, and most older people don't either. I do all the time, but I think I've only seen it once in these threads in a year and a half used by someone besides me.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:14 PM
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?Does this mean that vegansexuals don't swallow?

The question has been asked previously.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:15 PM
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7: But the sandal-wearing fruit-juice-drinking vegetarians are why there is no Socialism.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:16 PM
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13: And that's why I have trouble seeing this as a "news" story, other than the sheer idiocy of "a graveyard for animals". Look, if you feel strongly that people shouldn't cause animals unneccessary suffering, it's perfectly reasonable not to want to spend vast amounts of time with someone who's always planning their next purchase of veal cutlets.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:16 PM
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19

They don't used the term 'man-meat,' preferring instead 'manfu.'


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:16 PM
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20

I agree with the sentiment that 'new phenomenon' means 'my vegan best friend only dates other vegans that must be a trent.'


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:17 PM
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21

Come off it, Idp, I use "whom" all the time.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:17 PM
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17: Thank you, Orwell. Their women are ugly, too, IIRC, and they're always yattering on about civil rights. That's why we don't have socialism.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:18 PM
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If you really believe that MEAT IS MURDER, this isn't a very surprising result. It's no different than a committed pro-lifer not wanting to date an abortion-provider. Except even moreso--since unlike most meateaters an abortion-provider probably wouldn't play with the fetuses in front of the pro-lifer a few times a day.

Is this another one of those things that is making no sense to me because I haven't read the link?


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:18 PM
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Brock's right: this is neither a New Zealand nor new phenomenon. I was a vegan for four years, vegetarian for 14, and during that time it'd have been difficult to find a fellow vegan/vegetarian who didn't abide by those principles. While some of it was ideological, it was also more than a bit geared to the taste of fluids/smell of sweat. (As anyone who knows someone who eats McDonald's five times a week will tell you, they smell, um, different.)


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:18 PM
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25

Trent and Sophie are different phenomena altogther, Cala.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:19 PM
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9 Most vegetarians? That isn't remotely close to my experience ... doesn't even get to `many', really.

14: for what it's worth, these days most of the vegetarians I know (quite a few) who aren't vegetarian due to religion aren't vegetarian because they have a problem with killing or eating animals per se. It may be selection bias.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:19 PM
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They don't used the term 'man-meat,' preferring instead 'manfu.'

Actually, it's usually called 'hufu'.


Posted by: My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:21 PM
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oops, 26a pwned by 13. I know lots of vegetarians who have some preference for vegetarian partners, but it's like a `similar politics thing' plus logistics --- no dealbreaker.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:21 PM
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29

I now think vegetarian communities wildly differ from state-to-state.


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:21 PM
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No, there's nothing odd about people not wanting to get busy with people who engage in a practice they find distasteful or repellent. I just wanted to type tofuterus.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:21 PM
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Actually, now that I'm old and boring most of my vegetarian friends break down and eat a little fish or something on special occasions, and most of my vegan friends have the occasional egg. I myself had an incredibly demoralizing tuna fish sandwich for lunch for reasons of personal disorganization and poor options, even though I never cook meat at home and very, very rarely order any in restaurants.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:21 PM
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32

Trent and Sophie.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:23 PM
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33

Tofuterus is a wonderful word. It would make a great handle. Not for Apo, though.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:23 PM
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34

Frowner, I thought of you when I saw this.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:24 PM
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35

6: Well, I read somewhere (Terry Pratchett is authoritative, right?) that over a period of about seven years, every molecule of our body is replaced. Therefore, these people are being inconsistent if they don't limit themselves to sex with people who have been vegan for at least seven years -- UNLESS the meat they ate in that transition period came from an animal that was younger than seven years old. A filet mignon would be right out, but veal is fine.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:24 PM
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36

And his memorization of the Internet begins again!


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:25 PM
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37

I don't follow the logic in 35. What does the age of the animal that produced the meat have to do with anything?


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:26 PM
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38

Yes, between this and Flight of the Conchords, New Zealand is really leading the charge on cultural change...


Posted by: 3pointshooter | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:27 PM
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39

UNLESS the meat they ate in that transition period came from an animal that was younger than seven years old.

This doesn't follow.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:27 PM
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40

34: What? Waste the years of training myself to frown, the hours in front of the mirror, the special "frowning tape" for night-time wear? I admit that lately I've been trending toward a sort of canine-revealing lip-raise rather than a full-on frown, so maybe I'm softening in my old age. But "Sneerer" isn't as good a pseud.

Although that "before" picture sure is how I smile..."The Wooden-Teeth Face", I like to call it.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:29 PM
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41

All our bodies are graveyards for microorganisms Not a graveyard; stool is a living organ whom keeps you alive. There are a couple of kilos of microfauna in there. And we are nothing compared to insects, many of whom need rather specialized gut-bugs to get anything out of the weirdness they eat. Consider the ethical implications of this the next time you seat yourself. Puts marmite in perspective. My long-lost friend Ravi explained that for hindus, nothing with a face was permitted, so eating clam was OK.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:32 PM
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21: Just did a yahoo search of the site—always found it better for threads here than Google—and have found more instances, from more people, than I would have thought. But it is rare.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:33 PM
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24: There's a rather wide excluded middle between "vegan/vegetarian" and "someone who eats McDonald's five times a week."

But maybe I shouldn't talk about this. The guy at the desk next to mine -- who lived next door to me at the time -- once noticed by smell that I had maple bacon with my eggs that morning. He wasn't complaining, but I was just disconcerted to realize it was apparent. I have a relatively weak sense of smell, so I don't think about it much until someone comments on it.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:34 PM
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44

37, 39: well, um, I dunno. It sounded funny in my head.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:35 PM
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45

so eating clam was OK

Literal clam-eating, or ...?


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:35 PM
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46

I can definitely smell the difference between a meat-eater and a vegetarian.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:35 PM
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47

For the second time this thread, strike my vegetarian and replace it with vegan.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:36 PM
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48

agree with 46 modified by 47


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:37 PM
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49

I can definitely smell the difference between a meat-eater and a vegetarian.

So could those trapped in close quarters with Hitler, or so I've read.


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:37 PM
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50

strike my vegetarian

You keep one around just for this purpose?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:38 PM
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46: What about those of us who have sushi about once a month and maybe a ham sandwich every few weeks in desperation? Are we marked for noses to smell that can? Shame may get me back to pure vegetarianism yet.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:38 PM
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52

51: It's noticeable, but I don't know how consistently.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:39 PM
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52: Is there no end to shame? Only in death, Frowner, only in death.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:42 PM
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54

53: No, the dead really smell Frowner.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:44 PM
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55

I can smell it from here.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:44 PM
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56

Thinking of vegetarians, I know quite a few who are essentially vegetarian for reasons of wanting sane agricultural practices, rather than avoidance of meat per se. Vegetarian used to be a pretty good proxy (within reason, not automatically) for local and sustainable. Particularly these days, the `organic' boom has moved a lot of large players into what were pretty niche markets, and some of them are pushing out local produce, etc. so this makes it less true. I've had people tell me it's harder for them to shop now than it was 10 years ago, even though they can get soy stuff in every grocery store (it's probably been shipped half a continent). Some of them are moving to more localized, non vegetarian as a way to try and sort this out.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:45 PM
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57

I've been trending toward a sort of canine-revealing lip-raise

You could call yourself Li'l Cheney. Or Snarly.

I doubt if a monthly ham sandwich is going to screw up your body chemistry. But tuna sandwiches don't even need to be metabolized to give one away.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:47 PM
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58

I think it's common for vegetarians to date other vegetarians in my group of friends: easy to prepare meals, probably a proxy for similar views, that sort of thing. But I've never heard someone attribute their desire for a vegetarian partner because a meat-eater would be made up of dead animals.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:48 PM
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once noticed by smell that I had maple bacon with my eggs

Dispatches from Vermont!

Literal clam-eating, or ...?

Love animals. Don't perform cunnilingus on them.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:49 PM
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58 is true. I guess that qualifies as "news."


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:50 PM
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56 has been my experience as well.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:50 PM
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57: I met a girl who swore she could tell by taste (of semen) weeks to months out. It was difficult to set up a proper double blind study, though.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:52 PM
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63

Are misogynist mackerel jokes allowed on this thread?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:55 PM
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64

Why is it necessarily easier to prepare meals? Being a non-vegetarian doesn't mean you eat only meat. My wife is a vegetarian, I'm not, so when we cook for both of us it's meat-free, but I just went to lunch at work and had a pastrami sandwich.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:55 PM
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65

No, but if the meat-eater is someone who doesn't care for vegetarian food much at all, there's going to be a lot of duplicate meals.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:57 PM
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66

See, SP, you're easy to please. I refuse to eat anything without meat in it, which makes things rough for my vegetarian wife.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:57 PM
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67

We get through it by never cooking.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:58 PM
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68

Many Japanese insist that there's a gaijin smell, though this belief is likely grounded as much in racism as it is in the reality of dietary difference.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 1:59 PM
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69

I met a girl who swore she could tell by taste (of semen) weeks to months out.

A friend of mine was very strict about what her boyfriends ate for just that reason. Chocolate, yes, fish, no.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:03 PM
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70

68: I'll bet that smell is mayonnaise.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:03 PM
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70: I doubt it. When I lived in Beijing (not, admittedly, Japan) I was once given a slice of something that looked like a pizza with white sauce--sort of an anaemic pizza. And it was slathered in the most! disgusting! mayonaise! ever! In fact, there were many fancy-modern-Chinese-treat-things that involved horrible amounts of mayonaise.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:06 PM
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67: I was going to say that sounded like more your problem than hers....


69: Sure ... but weeks later? This girl wasn't saying she could tell if you had tuna for lunch, she was saying that bacon cheeseburger 3 weeks ago made a difference.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:06 PM
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70: Maybe that too. The only person who's ever attempted to explain it to me, a Japanese woman who lived in the States for many years, associated it with milk.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:09 PM
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74

72.2: That, as in the case of the Japanese, seems more psychological than physiological. My friend spoke in terms of a couple of days.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:11 PM
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75

Yeah, Japan loves mayo--dairy sounds more likely.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:14 PM
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76

You humans stink of lactose!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:15 PM
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74: That's what I meant about it being difficult to test. A couple of days makes perfect sense -- what we eat has to effect all sorts of biochemistry. And this really isn't limited to vegetarians or whatever; I've known several people like the one mentioned in 69


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:16 PM
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Many Japanese insist that there's a gaijin smell, though this belief is likely grounded as much in racism as it is in the reality of dietary difference.

Indeedy. Many moons ago I remember having a conversation with somebody (white) who insisted black people smelled different. Plus ca change...


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:20 PM
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79

Built of a tissue of... tissues. Mmm. Tissues.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:24 PM
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80

Well, everybody smells different. It might also be true that people who share an ethnicity use the same toiletries or something. And everybody in North Dakota smells like poop.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:25 PM
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80: Damn it we smell like lutefisk and sausage not poop.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:26 PM
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Well, I read somewhere (Terry Pratchett is authoritative, right?) that over a period of about seven years, every molecule of our body is replaced.

I hope I'm not derailing your thread too much but this can't be right, can it?
What about dormant (non-replicating) HIV cells?


Posted by: WillieStyle | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:27 PM
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83

Some quick googling says that lots of people have heard the "every seven years" thing (I know I have), but no one knows if it's true.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:34 PM
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84

Also gum stays in your stomach for seven years.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:37 PM
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85

And that's like 49 years for dogs.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:38 PM
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86

There's a part of me that's been the same ever since I was born, lasting through countless cell divisions and apoptoses, all my childhood scrapes, every dusting of skin cells through the day and shedding of stomach linings, all my nail and hair clippings, tooth pullings, bleedings, pissings, shittings, throwings up, everything: I call it my soul. Maybe you people don't have one; so much the worse for you.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:38 PM
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87

w-lfs-n's got soul. And he's superbad.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:39 PM
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88

w-lfs-n keeps his soul in a safe deposit box, so that it's never disturbed.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:40 PM
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Sure, Ben, but you have the smelly soul of a meat-eater.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:40 PM
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86: What a touching remark, w-lfs-n. Of course, it's not true, neither in general nor in your specific case--but touching, none the less.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:41 PM
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w-lfs-n's soul smells of brisket.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:41 PM
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92

Although I of course keep my soul inside a jeweled casket inside an egg inside a duck swimming on a remote mountain lake guarded by demons, as perhaps some of you recall. I am not like you.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:42 PM
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Sure, Ben, but you have the smelly soul of a meat-eater.

My body is odorous; my soul nourished by the odor.

92: man, you really are norse.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:44 PM
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Mayonnaise is the secret dark side of authentic Chinese cuisine.

I have read that the honky smell comes from a gland in the armpit and is real. When I was in Taiwan I thought the public urinals all had a peculiar cabbage smell and hypothesized that it was because they didn't have the honky armpit gland, so they excreted something or another in their urine. .


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:44 PM
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93: Yes. The demons are guarded by Vikings.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:45 PM
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95: And the whole arrangement is surrounded by a vast, sticky moat of lingonberry jam.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:46 PM
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You honkies stink of armpit gland!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:46 PM
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98

Huh! The Straight Dope on the subject of Asian armpits.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:47 PM
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99

The demons are guarded by Vikings.

I sense trouble brewing.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:47 PM
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100

Smell seems to have a major role in Buddhism, especially in SE Asia. Souls too impure to be saved in this life are described as tainted or smelly (the translation I saw rendered it "fumigated", as though they'd been smoked or steeped in nastiness.) The diet prohibitions include not only meat but also onions and garlic, because they're smelly. The dead bodies of holy men don't smell bad.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:49 PM
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This is a whole dimension to that Charles Bronson thing I wasn't picking up on.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:49 PM
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Don't mock, Frowner; that kind of soul-hiding is common among your more enterprising norse giants.

Not that I'm calling you a giantess. Just norse.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:49 PM
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102: Astute, w-lfs-n. I am actually a troll princess from far away--I don't mention it in casual conversation because of the overlap, in your foolish tongue, between the name for my people and the practice of being irritating on the internet. Although we can seem rather provoking to your kind, so there may be a connection.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 2:54 PM
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The dead bodies of holy men don't smell bad.

Not these guys, certainly. But there is that bit about the smelly decomposition of the Elder Zosima in The Brothers Karamazov.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 3:15 PM
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Yeah, but Zossima was being contrasted to some other non-stinking Russian holy man. Dostoevsky was being all liberal and shit.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 3:19 PM
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15: I regard the waning of the who/whom distinction to be a sign of the death of civilised conversation.

That, and the very existence of anyone who has ever appeared on Jerry Springer.


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 3:21 PM
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41--
"My long-lost friend Ravi explained that for hindus, nothing with a face was permitted"

damn. there goes my open-face pbj.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 4:13 PM
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108

MANDOM!


Posted by: Bran Muffin | Link to this comment | 07-31-07 5:02 PM
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