Good to see "The opportunity presented itself" well represented.
Oh man, you skipped over the best part: the 50 most uncommon reasons people gave for having sex!
"I wanted to get closer to God"
"I wanted to be used or degraded"
"It was a favor to someone"
Awesome.
"I wanted to change the topic of conversation" ... at the rooftop party next door.
Because these genital warts ain't gonna spread themselves.
Otherwise my real doll had no purpose of being.
"I was slumming" being a much less popular reason for women than for men. Greasy dudes in dive bars everywhere: despair!
6: "I wanted to give someone a sexually transmitted disease" is on the list, yes.
"I wanted to have a child" is near the bottom of the list?? Fucking heathens.
"I wanted to get rid of a headache" is an interesting response. I've never heard that one.
And you've gotta love "The person had too much to drink and I was able to take advantage of them." Thanks for the honesty, jackass.
At what number did "Tequila" come in?
"I'm a lifeguard, and that Mexican lap-swimming was just so pathetic. Call it pity."
This study would have been a lot more useful (for some admittedly strained value of "useful") if its authors had exercised a little more discretion to lump substantively identical answers together. A great many of the responses are the same things, said differently. Since presumably what they're after (I presume without have read the study) are the underlying motivations, they'd have been better to look a little further past the word choices.
Also, ogged, don't you owe a hat tip to someone for this, you filcher?
I love how number 7 puts "horny" in quotes, like it's not a real word.
"The person was famous and I wanted to be able to say I had sex with him/her"
Now we know who wants to sex Mutombo.
LET ME SEXX0R YOUR POKEMONS.
Your pokemons. Let me sexx0r them.
The opinions of college students, again.
Their votes may not count as often as they should, but their overcollected opinions fill any available space like a deployed air bag.
18: also known as "The DoughBob Variation"
don't you owe a hat tip to someone for this
via the front page of the Times' website. Thanks, NYT!
I believe it was linked in the comments here yesterday, no?
The opinions of college students, again.
Not exactly. The original list is from college students, but the list was presented to a wider sampling (unless I'm misremembering).
I believe it was linked in the comments here yesterday, no?
Oh, maybe; I don't always click through.
"I wanted to get rid of a headache" is an interesting response. I've never heard that one.
It works for my girlfriend, sometimes.
I love how number 7 puts "horny" in quotes, like it's not a real word.
That's to make sure peopoe don't think that the respondent was explaining that he/she had sex because he/she was keratinized.
If limited to the opinions of college students, this would presumably go a long way to explaining the relatively poor showing for "I wanted to have a baby" noted by Brock in comment 10.
Also, ogged, don't you owe a hat tip to someone for this, you filcher?
Ogged claims not to read the gender threads past the first couple hundred comments, Brock; maybe he gives the sexual-discovery ones even less. I'm willing to let him have the benefit of the doubt.
"I wanted to relieve menstrual cramps."
Seriously, does this work?
I'm also surprised that "I was stressed out" is not on the list. I was just telling someone yesterday that that seems to be a major motivator for me.
29: Yes.
I was intrigued that "I wanted to end the relationship," was listed as a reason. How exactly does this work -- you just make sure it's so bad the person breaks up with you?
Seriously, does this work?
According to three anecdata, yes.
Ditto for the headache thing mentioned by George Washington above.
A total of 1,549 undergraduate students (503 men, 1046 women) participated in this study in exchange for course credit. Participants were distinct from those who took part in Study 1. Participants were enrolled in either the 2000- 2003 Fall sessions of Introductory Psychology courses (September-December) or the 2001-2004 Spring Introductory Psychology sessions (January-May). Sample sizes varied between cohorts (2000-2001, n = 570; 2001-2002, n = 341; 2002-2003, n = 341; 2003-2004, n = 297). Participants ranged in age from 16 years to 42 years (96% between the ages of 18 and 22), and the mean age was 19 years.
Oh, wait, stress is on the list.
"I wanted to get rid of a headache" is an interesting response. I've never heard that one.
i've done that. i had a terrible headache and a friend offered to give me a backrub to help it go away. the backrub helped my headache a lot and he eventually convinced me that an orgasm would work even better for getting rid of it. the headache was so bad that the logic made sense at the time so i agreed. he was terrible in bed and the promised orgasm was never delivered. it was so bad i stopped him halfway through and kicked him out of bed and he started to cry.
it was so bad i stopped him halfway through and kicked him out of bed and he started to cry.
AWB is back!
Just kidding, she wouldn't have used a pseudohandle.
A total of 1,549 undergraduate students
Got it, my misreading, sorry. There was something in there about "older women" being more likely to have sex out of a sense of duty, and I figured they couldn't possibly mean upperclassmen.
"To relieve constipation" is, mystifyingly, absent.
"I wanted to get rid of a headache" is an interesting response. I've never heard that one.
Just this past week, this worked for me. A pretty severe one, too.
i had a terrible headache and a friend offered to give me a backrub to help it go away. the backrub helped my headache a lot and he eventually convinced me that an orgasm would work even better for getting rid of it. the headache was so bad that the logic made sense at the time so i agreed. he was terrible in bed and the promised orgasm was never delivered. it was so bad i stopped him halfway through and kicked him out of bed and he started to cry.
And still I weep.
undergrads, huh.
this also explains why "in order to get back at my ex-spouse" is not as high on the list.
if kids only married younger, they could get those first marriages over so much quicker. but no, they throw their youth away on college instead.
This study was done at the University of Texas. Good thing I didn't see "Get a better grade from my TA" on the list. (Also, good thing I didn't sleep with any undergrads. But I know TAs who did.)
it was so bad i stopped him halfway through and kicked him out of bed and he started to cry.
At that point we hope you reassured him that at least he was good at giving backrubs.
"To relieve constipation" is, mystifyingly, absent.
I was thinking it was limited to heterosexual experiences.
"To get practice at making a baby so I'd be good at it when I wanted to do so" is, mystifyingly, absent.
44: I dunno, if you're going to pull the "say, baby, I know what would make you feel better" scam, then not back it up, then start crying, I think mocking laughter would be a more appropriate response than reassurance from the scammee.
47--
mocking laughter plus "your whining is making my headache come back, you loser."
just for good effect.
44: I dunno, if you're going to pull the "say, baby, I know what would make you feel better" scam, then not back it up, then start crying, I think mocking laughter would be a more appropriate response than reassurance from the scammee.
so harsh! I really, really, really thought it would help! wah!
it was so bad i stopped him halfway through
This requires details.
"And your crippled lower body is hardly a turn-on."
I was desirous of having my head eaten.
He offered to give me head.
No need to go so far off-species; we've got a woman who'd do it because she was hungry.
Her helpless prey could only save himself by doling out Flash scripts, one useful tip a night, then start the next one.
brock's complaint in 14 about the spurious proliferation of redundant motives is well borne out by the number 1 on the list of m/f divergent reasons, "the person wore revealing clothes".
that's supposed to be a motivation itself? not, maybe, what was seen through the revealing clothes? not, maybe, the attraction towards the other person generated in part by what was revealed through the clothes?
i don't want to meet the loser who says 'i wasn't attracted to her, and what i saw through her revealing clothing pretty well put me off. but, you know, she was wearing revealing clothing and all, so, away we went."
Frankly, any compendium of reasons that people have sex that doesn't include "I needed something to blog about," leaves me suspicious.
Are we supposed to believe that Ogged has sex to blog about it? Rather than ostentatiously not having sex to blog about that instead?
"it was so bad i stopped him halfway through"
This requires details.
The "it" refers to her headache, not my sexing -- right, Eleanor, right????
50:
it was college. he had no idea what he was doing. i tried to explain where he was going wrong but he could not or would not take direction. i don't know what he thought he was doing but it was annoying and confusing.
It was pierce or be pierced.
It turned out the answer was "Somebody".
Only if he's made of bacon, idp. I have standards.
59: confusing? Okay, that really requires more detail.
63: And good standards they are. I mean, come on, bacon!
37: I was asleep when Eleanor commented! And I've never actually kicked someone out of bed once they were already in it. And you're right; I probably wouldn't have re-pseuded myself.
My reasons for having sex now tend to be, like, "I'm surprisingly self-aware for how drunk I am right now, and I'm pretty sure I cleaned my apartment today. Oh! Good kissing!" My reasons in college were more like, "I'm pretty stoned and I'm fairly sure this older dude is clueless enough not to realize I'm basically a virgin."
I now picture AWB sleeping, and then suddenly waking up and exclaiming "Somebody mentioned me on Unfogged!"
43 - Really? Math TAs, or another subject?
I don't understand why his ignorance of your basic virginity was to be desired, at the price of cluelessness. Power?
AWB inverted the central plot hook of Kids! That is damned odd, now that I think about it.
71: Actual ability to get laid? It's hard to get cool older guys to sleep with you when you're a 19-year-old virgin girl. They get all paternal and "Oh, sweetheart! I can't! I want you to have someone special!" if they find out.
I see, it's the value of "older" that caused my confusion. 25/19 does not run to this issue: care and responsibility, yes; paternal forbearance, no.
"Who wants to sex Pikachu?"
Too late?
Really? Math TAs, or another subject?
Oh yes, math TAs. One friend in particular. When got in trouble for sleeping with his third student, WHO PRESSED CHARGES, he got fired and politely told to scram with him master's degree.
The new hover text is cocksucker.
She went to the university and also went to a lawyer and raised a big stink. I think maybe statutory rape charges?
For the record, I'm on her side. I don't think very highly of this TA.
73: It's hard to get cool older guys to sleep with you when you're a 19-year-old virgin girl.
????!??!!!!?!??!???
was it paternal niceness, or just "god if i fuck her, she will fall in love with me and stalk me the rest of the semester"
81: Yeah, I know. But not having been a 19-year-old virgin girl, I'm inclined to take her word. Incidentally, I just had an idea for the best charity evar.
also, wheres this list's twin? far more work is put into creative reasons not to sex.
Slack likes him some virgins.
Speaking as someone who has recently macked on someone close to 19, young is fine, but I do think I'd have the reaction AWB describes if I found out someone was a virgin. Let me guess: I'm sexist.
84:
most curious of all is how many entries appear on both lists.
"I had a headache."
"I wanted to break up my relationship."
"I wanted to achieve an orgasm."
"I wanted to feel closer to God."
56, I'm pretty sure "the person wore revealing clothes" is a proxy for "she'll give it up for me." Attraction is probably moot.
I will totally fuck any 19-year-old virgin lurkers, no questions asked. Because I'm a feminist.
90: I hate to admit it, but I'm on the anti-feminist side. I don't think I'd be comfortable fucking a 19 year-old virgin. That said, I can direct 'em to Apo, should the need arise.
SCMT: what is the age range of virgins you'd be comfortable fucking? Or are you just uncomfortable fucking any virgins at all?
85: Sexist.
(Well, someone had to do it. Where's B, off feeding the koi or something?)
87--
yeah, you're probably right
but depending on just how moot the attraction is (e.g. 'i find her positively repulsive but she's wearing revealing clothes'?), i think it gets really weird. into the range of karamazov senior doing stinking lisa in the alleyway. not only debasing of others, but debasing of self as well.
like i said, i don't want to meet him.
Where's B, off feeding the koi or something?
I think she is on vacation which is unfortunate there have been a couple threads that could have gone to 300, but kind on died without her influence.
I am with ogged. Virgin not really an issue 19 is too young.
I can totally see sex-with-virgins being not that attractive a prospect when one's faced with it directly, though I have to admit I'm not sure whether I'd have Ogged or SCMT's scruples about it. I'm just perplexed that there's not a readier supply of "cool older guys" (I'm reading that phrase as "scenesters") who'd be entirely unconcerned.
Older guys who are not 100% creepy, I think I meant.
96: I'm not 100% creepy, young lady.
96--
thus ruling out the unfogged commentariat.
Older guys who are not 100% creepy
I think now we have a catch 22, where "not 100% creepy" means "has some concerns about sleeping with 19 year old virgins."
Except maybe for Apostropher.
100 before I saw 97-99, which sort of ruined it.
98: My love of classic Motown affords me an 11% "let," making me only 89% creepy. I call that a win.
Apostropher so creepy, he ain't that creepy.
Yes, I think it's a rotten Catch-22. The 19-year-old virgin who is surrounded by dudes her age who are not interested in her must seek after guys of varying creepiness who are considerably older and preferably foreign.
Okay, if nobody else is going to do it:
90% creepy tops
ATM.
European dudes seem to have fewer scruples about this sort of thing without having a higher level of creepiness.
I just play a creepy older guy on the internets. In real life, I'm a perfectly respectable husband and father.
Also, you don't have to be 19. Or a virgin.
without having a higher level of creepiness
Bullshit. You're just charmed by the accent.
Yeah, that unmistakeable foreign accent.
I was charmed by the apparent scruple-lessness.
112: "unscrupulousness", perhaps?
109: Christ, Canada really needs to get in on the eponymous sexual paraphernalia racket. "Canuck swirler," maybe? (Okay, no. Just brainstorming here.)
Vis-a-vis the 19-year-old virgin problem: when myself in this situation (not through lack of opportunity earlier, though) I had no trouble getting into an adequate relationship and ridding myself of the stigma of purity. We must move in very different worlds; amongst the nerdy, being a virgin until the late teens is common enough that discovery of this fact doesn't disturb even the more sexually precocious.
that unmistakeable foreign accent
113: That's the one. I've been in Kansas for a week.
109: Christ, Canada really needs to get in on the eponymous sexual paraphernalia racket. "Canuck swirler," maybe?
Why does B have to be on vacation now?
In Europe Without Baedekker, Edmund Wilson was charmed by the Parisian prostitute in the immediate postwar years, appreciative of Americans as a class, who described Canadians as "Ordinaire."
We've talked about the relative maturity problem, with girls being and wanting more than their exact cohorts have on offer, extending from high school on through college. AWB's problem seems like an illustration to me.
Heebie: did this tale of math and woe happen in the late middle nineties, on the Eastern Seaboard?
114: Ask and ye shall receive, Doctor Slack.
There's more for your perusal.
I knew I could count on you, Apo.
...
Hmmm, I think Northern Firefly fans might want to come up with an alternate term for "Canadian Browncoat."
If these were really college students, a higher ranking answer would be "I saw this hat drop"
since i'm such an awesome feminist, i'll deflower the 19yrolds 2 at a time.
Jeebers, people, what do you do, wander about carrying a sign that says "I'm a 19 year old virgin"? A T-shirt, perhaps? Town crier? Hell, I didn't even cop to being underage, much less a virgin.
I understand that life was different, back in the stoned age, but is it really that hard for the inexperienced to get laid these days, what with the bazillion reasons given in that survey? When I decided to satisfy my curiosity about sex, I approached the problem logically: Find attractive [to me] male; strike up conversation, flirt, accept invitation to help sort out his new apartment...
When I decided to satisfy my curiosity about sex, I approached the problem logically: Find attractive [to me] male; strike up conversation, flirt, accept invitation to help sort out his new apartment...
Yeah, see, it's steps 2-4 that are most problematic.
Find attractive [to me] male; strike up conversation, flirt, accept invitation to help sort out his new apartment
You are also skipping the finds you reciprocally attractive step.
I keep forgetting that 19 is "underage" in the States. Barbaric.
19 isn't legally underage. Well, it is for drinking, but certainly not sex.
"Virgin not really an issue 19 is too young."
In what universe? 19 isn't even close to being in the grey zone in this one.
And experience really is the issue - the moral problem lies in corrupting youth, not in having fun with pre-corrupted youth.
-----
Finally, being a T.A. is like being a kid in a candy store. I don't understand how anyone could possibly survive grad school emotionally without resort to the fringe benefits.
As long as the T.A. shows appropriate adult judgment and acts ethically about things, everyone involved always ends up happy in my experience. But then again, everything I've seen and done was in the humanities - things might be less carefree in other disciplines.
125: Lather, rinse, repeat. If at first, you don't succeed... Had my first choice not got with the program, I would have tried candidate #2. Mind you, I wasn't looking for a relationship [or, frankly, even a friendship]; this was pure lab experiment. Perhaps it's easier when the goal is to acquire data and one can be dispassionate; failure to connect only mattered in terms of delaying the ultimate experience.
I was not a particularly social flutterby at that point in my life - I was a precocious nerd grrl who would rather sit in a corner reading than do anything else. But one can learn things about flirting from books. [And, TBH, from infants. It's that gazing with rapt attention, followed by a demure downcast eye. Princess Diana had it down pat.]
If I'd been older and wiser, I'd have picked a grad student for the first experience. [A nice chem grad student, perhaps, but that party wasn't till the third week of the semester. 24 tops 19 when it comes to skill, IMX.] But, tastefully, I did not bang a professor until I was a grad student, and I picked one who was not in my department. 'Twas a pity that I had scruples, because one of the profs in the English department had the greatest bedroom voice...
127: I keep forgetting that 19 is "underage" in the States. Barbaric.
I was 17, not 19. That was jail-bait age in Massachusetts at the time.
126: See my 130.
129: 19 isn't even close to being in the grey zone in this one.
With you so far...
Finally, being a T.A. is like being a kid in a candy store . . . everything I've seen and done was in the humanities
Judas Priest! This is a tough room for the humanities as it is.
FWIW, I went through grad school in the humanities and did not see that it was particularly the norm to bang students in classes one was TA'ing. It is indeed possible to survive grad school without doing this.
131: Ah, okay, that makes sense then.
In what universe? 19 isn't even close to being in the grey zone in this one
In my universe. Not saying no one should fuck 19 year olds. It is just too young for me.
"FWIW, I went through grad school in the humanities and did not see that it was particularly the norm to bang students in classes one was TA'ing."
Silly. You can't bang them in class. Folks will notice, even if you try to be quiet. You have to wait until after class is over.
As to the norm, I'd guess only about a third of the TA's were enjoying the candy store, so I'd agree it wasn't technically the norm. But I couldn't really understand the position of the other two thirds. If you're stuck with all the downsides of being in grad school, why wouldn't you avail yourself of the few upsides?
You were in grad school in the humanities, Petey? I find this so disturbing. You, like, quit and went to law school, right?
134: Same reason one doesn't do the interns while being stuck with all the downsides of working in an office, I'd say.
"You, like, quit and went to law school, right?"
I considered it, but decided to choose life instead.
So you're not an academic or a lawyer?
"So you're not an academic or a lawyer?"
Petey generally doesn't supply personal details, but he will confirm that he's successfully avoided law school.
candy-store.
i have to assume you were ta'ing many decades ago, or in a really lousy institution. this sort of behavior has been strictly not on the cards in well-run places for quite a while now.
124:
When I decided to satisfy my curiosity about sex, I approached the problem logically: Find attractive [to me] male; strike up conversation, flirt, accept invitation to help sort out his new apartment....
Men are more wary of predatory jailbait these days. Look what happened to Jerry Lee Lewis.
Passive victims no more!
"i have to assume you were ta'ing many decades ago"
Nope.
"or in a really lousy institution"
Nope. It was a state university, as opposed to a posh private institution, but not a lousy grad school in any meaningful sense. (Definitely lousy for the undergrads, tho. Why anyone would think under-trained, under-motivated people like me should be teaching undergrads is utterly beyond me.)
Overall, a more widespread practice than you seem to think, though I can't speak to dramatically different situations like the Physics department at Yale.
Good lord, don't bang the undergrads. They're roughly 19. What have we established about 19-year-olds and sex? That they need more practice. Let them grope each other and mack on the junior faculty.
"Let them grope each other and mack on the junior faculty."
But, of course, we were a more attractive alternative for them than the junior faculty, hence the beauty of the situation for both sides.
And they certainly were groping each other, but sometimes they wisely decided to pursue a more formal education for change of pace.
I need more practice too. I'd rather not start off trying to compete with the pros.
careful, john--that sort of thing can lead to relationships, among other venereal diseases.
I tend to come down pretty hard on my 11-year-old when he decides it would be cute to act smug about behaving badly and getting away with it.
I'll just say, "Young lady, I'm interested in this relationship-free 'hookup culture' of yours. You're not ageist or prejudiced against the perv community, are you?"
Pervs -- the last minority.
I can only assume that either
(a) norms vary widely and unpredictably from one institution to the next;
(b) I'm shockingly oblivious to what's going on around me.
We have one grad student instructor in our department who serves, hilariously, as a warning against student-screwing. She's in her early 40's and self-consciously plays the village nutcase for everyone's benefit. She volunteered to talk to incoming grad students about teaching and began her talk by cawing (in her inimitable way), "The first thing you gotta remember is don't fuck your students. I really loved little Yuri--it's true--but in the long run it gave me nothing but eternal heartache. First they ask you to help edit their papers, and next thing you know you're spreadeagled on some guy's Trans Am in Ozone Park thinking, 'Where did I leave my goddamn diaphragm?' Trust me, it'll only end in listening to apologies for chlamydia in broken English." I love her.
"norms vary widely and unpredictably from one institution to the next; "
It's possible. My department had a heavy studio component, which would stereotypically lead to more such behavior. But the English department folks who were pure theory seemed to have a similar rate of participation.
Perhaps my institution was atypical overall, though that would surprise me.
"I'm shockingly oblivious to what's going on around me."
Of course, there is a far higher level of discretion now, compared to, say, the 80's. You couldn't bring your own students to parties as your date with any regularity without raising eyebrows, which I imagine was different 20 years ago.
So given the discretion, if you're not interested in participating, and if you're not close friends with those who are, it could certainly slip under your radar. If you don't snort coke, you might not any idea which of your friends and associates snort coke.
OK: "Young lady, I'm interested in this relationship-free 'hookup culture' of yours. You're not ageist or prejudiced against the perv community, are you? BTW, if you suffer from menstrual cramps, I have a little treatment that often crears it up right away."
I don't want you crearing anything up for me, John.
OK, jailbait, go through your life uncrear and ravaged with cramps. Cut off your hooha to spite your wangdangdoodle.
See, the thing about this candy store idea, to me, is that quite aside from the fact that I am happily married and therefore not going to fuck any undergrads, I have hardly found the courses I've taught to be brimming with temptation.
"I am happily married and therefore not going to fuck any undergrads"
Snacking between lunch and dinner is neither a mortal nor a venial sin.
I grew up in academia - my father the mad archaeologist was also a college professor. Judging by the number of grad students he banged [and often married], snacking on the flock was ignored by administrations all over the place.
And, of course, there are the of-age predatory nymphets: The Biophysicist used to fend them off with "if you still want to after the course is over and the grades are in, sure". Several returned on those conditions. [There's just something about a professor who wears black leather and rides a motorcycle that heats the blood...]
Back in the homophobic Dark Ages (1964-7) 2 or 3 of my male professors subtly hit on my relationship-averse ass, not to speak of two major poets (Robert Duncan and Allen Ginsberg).
It was strictly don't ask, don't tell. No lawsuits, no headlines, no arrests, no problem.
159--
sure, such stories of the old days are legion.
which is why i assumed petey must be ancient.
157--
rfts, i think we've already been through the
"co-eds are already women, college boys are still boys"
thread.
asymmetrical temptation.
Heebie: did this tale of math and woe happen in the late middle nineties, on the Eastern Seaboard?
Nope. In Texas, early-this-decade.
Petey, do I know you? I went to grad school with a guy who went by the name Petey, who was a basketball fan. Walt is my real first name, so you would remember me.
