Re: Op

1

Snub, motherfucker!


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 8:22 AM
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Obviously snub. Spit = trip to Cuba. Saying something political = pointless (he doesn't listen to his dad, why the hell does he care what you say?) and probably surveillance, possibly leading to trip to Cuba as well.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 8:24 AM
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"Nope" seems just about perfect to me.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 8:24 AM
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I can't say I might get arrested.


Posted by: Ugh | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 8:25 AM
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You could spit in your hand in an obvious way before offering it. If you wanted to see a new part of the world, without actually seeing any of it.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 8:28 AM
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I've read somewhere or other (very reliable sourcing, huh?) that Will Farrell has been invited to meet with Bush because of the impersonations he does, but he declines because he doesn't want people to get the impression that he actually likes or agrees with the president.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 8:30 AM
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I have fantasies of Bush coming into a restaurant I'm eating at as part of a photo op, so that I could tell him loudly to get the fuck away from my kids.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 8:40 AM
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Well, we already know what happens when you politely speak your mind to him in an informal setting.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 8:50 AM
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This story reminds me of a great piece by Michael Kinsley (back when he was still writing great pieces) that appeared in Harpers called "Waiting for Lenny" (subscribers only, unfortunately).

Basic summary: Plane crashes in the Potomac in January, heroic man (Lenny) jumps in the freezing river and saves some passengers, losing his own life in the process. Reagan praises Lenny in the SOTU (IIRC) as an example of all that's right with America, i.e. voluntarism instead of statism. Kinsley points out that taxpayer-funded rescue services saved more lives than the lone hero, and as far as he's concerned he would rather not have to rely on the willingness of other individuals to sacrifice themselves in an emergency.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 9:01 AM
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You could spit in your hand

Oh c'mon. If you're going to be junior high about it, go ahead and cup your balls or finger your asshole beforehand.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 9:04 AM
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Wait, the guy who jumped in didn't die, it was someone already in the water who kept letting other people be rescued first, no?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 9:06 AM
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9: I will pay $50 to anybody who can suggest anything for which Michael Kinsley might be willing to make the ultimate sacrifice.

As for meeting Commander Cuckoobananas, sometimes a simple "no" does the work of an Atticus Finch.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 9:08 AM
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Yeah, the straight snub option seems the best.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 9:12 AM
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I wouldn't want to talk to that guy. We have nothing in common.

I wouldn't want to talk to Lou Holtz or Cam'ron either, despite their eminence in their fields.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 9:17 AM
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11: yes (with picture of non-dead Lenny at said SOTU).


Posted by: suds | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 9:24 AM
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7: I confess that I have a fantasy of El Presidente doing a photo op in my neighborhood and treading on my lawn, giving me a 'Get the hell of my land, motherfucker!' opportunity.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 9:41 AM
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An impressive young man, to say the least.


Posted by: swampcracker | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 9:42 AM
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I will pay $50 to anybody who can suggest anything for which Michael Kinsley might be willing to make the ultimate sacrifice.

Kinsley, bless his heart, wrote an insightful column around the time of the fall of the Berlin Wall. The column was about how people should feel about the revelations that their friends and neighbors were spying for the government. His answer: People are ambitious, and the behavior of the East German informers was essentially indistinguishable from the behavior of various types of American careerists. He made a strong case.

But the really interesting thing is, his point with the comparison was not to slam American careerists, but to counsel tolerance for the East German informers.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 9:59 AM
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This reminds me of a Radiohead lyric: "The head of state has called for me by name / but I don't have time for him."


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 10:08 AM
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The hero was a government bureaucrat, though he did his lifesaving on his own time.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 10:08 AM
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picture of non-dead Lenny at said SOTU).

Or so the mullahs would have you believe.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 10:10 AM
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I think I would accept and say something. He'd retort, I'd half-ass a riposte, and the wit of the staircase would haunt me.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 10:17 AM
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Fucking staircase.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 10:17 AM
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if it were a photo-op i would snub the president. why be used for naked political purposes?

if it were a live t.v. appearance with the president, i would go and make a scene about what a doofis the president is. why not use it for naked political purposes if you get the chance?


Posted by: upyernoz | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 10:26 AM
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I would definitely show up naked for political purposes.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 10:32 AM
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I would definitely show up naked for political purposes.

With this particular president? Really?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 10:39 AM
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With this particular president? Really?

Would his daughters be there? Because, maybe.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 10:57 AM
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I'd definitely refuse to be photographed with Bush. Now if I had a chance to meet him and some time to prepare, I'd hand him a list of Iraqi War dead and then walk off. Or ride him like a pony. One or the other.

This WSJ column is a few days old, but it's blowing my mind right now. According to this ex-KGB hack, attacks on our Beloved and Respected Comrade President are only abetting America's enemies. Therefore, we must adore our leader and win, win, win!


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:03 AM
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I'd politely refuse and, if pressed for a reason, would simply say I have no desire to meet someone I have no respect for.


Posted by: tonks | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:26 AM
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The feeling, I'm sure, would be mutual.


Posted by: tonks | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:29 AM
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Gotta go with "Nope" on W.


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:34 AM
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Sure, "nope" is the correct answer, but it's boring. I'd probably dress up in a cape, broad-brimmed hat, and twirly mustache and congratulate the man on his new damsel-based Rail Transit Renewal Initiative. Also, pony-ride.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:40 AM
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The more interesting question is what you would say if you found yourself face-to-face with him. Not that anything would make a difference, but some things might make you feel better. I think I'd go with the apparently respectful but actually disdainful "Heckuva job, Mr. President."


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:40 AM
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I think I'd go with the apparently respectful but actually disdainful "Heckuva job, Mr. President."

Seriously? I think you have to end that comment with, "And I'd mean it to sting," Bertie.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:42 AM
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what you would say if you found yourself face-to-face with him

"Come on, gang, we're leaving. They let anyone in here nowadays."


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:45 AM
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I think I would say nothing at all. He doesn't care so why waste the energy? Were we face to face I wouldn't shake hands with him or I speak, I'd just stand there and look him in the eye. Sometimes silence speaks volumes.


Posted by: tonks | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:46 AM
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What you want to do is ask him a question that will cause his brain to meltdown, or at least realign, Wargames style. Maybe, "Should we allow Muslims to buy automatic assault-rifles?"


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:47 AM
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It may be obvious, but I'd go with a hearty "Who cares what you think?"


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:48 AM
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Or, "What is the optimal rate at which to tax unemployment checks?"


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:48 AM
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You wouldn't shake his hand? That's a serious slight. I'm not sure I could bring myself to refuse anyone's outstretched hand. It's just so... callous.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:49 AM
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No, I wouldn't- a serious slight would be the point.


Posted by: tonks | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:50 AM
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I wouldn't shake his hand.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:50 AM
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I wouldn't smile, but I'd politely shake his hand. I might say something rude. But I'd still shake his hand. You people are merciless.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:51 AM
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So is he and at least my mercilessness hasn't resulted in the deaths of thousands of innocent people.


Posted by: tonks | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:52 AM
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I would absolutely not shake his hand. And if it was my place of business, I'd refuse him service.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:53 AM
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I don't think I'd be able to keep myself from muttering furiously, "You evil lying sack of shit" as I moved away.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:55 AM
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You people are merciless.

It's the least one can do. It would probably mean more to him than anything you could say. It would probably mean more than being dragged off to the Hague for a war-crimes trial.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:57 AM
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I would be sorely tempted to trip him as he walked away. Then I'd giggle madly as the Secret Service slapped handcuffs on me. Probably wouldn't be so funny after an hour alone with Cheney, though.


Posted by: tonks | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:57 AM
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"Heckuva job, Mr. President."

This ain't Europe, you know; you don't have to address him by title. Call him George.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:58 AM
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47: Agreed. He's already proven he doesn't care what any of us thinks.


Posted by: tonks | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:58 AM
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"Bulldog! Bulldog! BOW WOW WOW"

Just to see if Bush would join in a singalong. If you're going to have a photo-op, make sure it gets on YouTube.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:59 AM
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49: If I had to call him by a name could I call him Georgie? Maybe Chucklenuts?


Posted by: tonks | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 11:59 AM
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49: If I had to call him by a name could I call him Georgie? Maybe Chucklenuts?

No. Nicknames are too friendly-familiar; insults are too invested, and also too explicit. Pointedly refuse to shake; pointedly address by first name. Maintain distance.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:02 PM
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*sigh*

Fine. Then I'll just say nothing at all.


Posted by: tonks | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:03 PM
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Hands in pockets. Lips in thin line. Eyes look down disapprovingly at presidential shoes. Walk away.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:06 PM
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pointedly address by first name

Make sure you call him "Little George".


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:07 PM
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55: ...eyes look down.

No way! I'd look that asshole straight in the eye and dare him to attempt a handshake!


Posted by: tonks | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:08 PM
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another successful mission


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:08 PM
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No, I mean you can look down after you look him in the eye (and afterward you can look him in the eye again). Important belittling gesture.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:10 PM
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Brock, you really are a troll.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:10 PM
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After you look up again, smirk.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:12 PM
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This reminds me of one my favorite Bill Clinton stories. When Clinton spoke at the 1999 UofC commencement, he stood and shook every graduate's hand (at least those who deigned to shake). I was friendly with a guy who was quite conservative and despised Clinton. He was also a powerhouse --- a ripped 215 pound guy with probably the strongest hand shake I've ever felt, and whose jaw suggested a touch of acromegaly. He told me that instead of refusing to shake Clinton's hand, he was going to squeeze it to a pulp. Afterward, I asked him how it went. He said he squeezed Clinton's hand as hard as he could, Clinton gave him a bemused cock-eyed look, and then squeezed him back just a little bit harder.


Posted by: Lurker | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:12 PM
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I shook hands with Bill Clinton back in '92. His hands are friggin' enormous. He's much bigger in real life than he appeared on TV.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:16 PM
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w-lfs-n gets it exactly right. George W. Bush warrants the cut direct.

"For one person to look directly at another and not acknowledge the other's bow is such a breach of civility that only an unforgivable misdemeanor can warrant the rebuke."


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:18 PM
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I don't know, I kind of like 'Wull, howDEE, Mister McMantyPals!" followed by a long pause and then, "Hello, George," very quiet, and the sound of the shutting door.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:19 PM
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Clinton really had that larger-than-life thing. I wish I liked him better.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:23 PM
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It's the least one can do. It would probably mean more to him than anything you could say.

Not necessarily. If you're a person he would generally look at and think you were a Hippy or Angry Liberal or Decadent Leftist or Pointy-Headed Elitist, it might be good to be polite to him in order to defy how he expects you to act. On the other hand if you look like the kind of person he likes (tall, non-overweight, clean-shaven, capitalist, managerial), it would be best to cut him direct, so that he is reminded that people's scorn for him is not limited to the vast majority of people that he doesn't care about. I'd be in the second category.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:25 PM
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you can look down after you look him in the eye (and afterward you can look him in the eye again). Important belittling gesture.

Nope. Lowered eyes communicate submissiveness. Look him in the eye, then let your gaze wander past one of his shoulders into the distance.

I'm very ashamed to say that I don't know if I would be able to snub the man in person. Goddamnfucking social conventions.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:26 PM
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I'd be in the second category.

Me too. Angry hippies should ignore my advice on deportment.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:27 PM
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Slol, aren't you a fucking Canadian? Not to mention a liberal college professor. Easily ignored.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:29 PM
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aren't you a fucking Canadian

No.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:30 PM
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I think that this is fun, but we're all likely underestimating the effect of the bare fact that he is the president. A certain "aura" attaches to the head of state, and I think it'd be naive to assume that the average person would be clever and fast on his feet if Bush showed up unexpectedly. (The fact that our only actual example is someone who is physically huge and intimidating would seem to reinforce this theory.)

A business owner is somewhat different, in that Bush would be entering "his territory" -- in the same way, I think that if Bush showed up at my door, I wouldn't let him into the house. In a public place, it'd be different -- and even moreso if you were going to the White House.

Look what happened when Cindy Sheehan first sat down with him -- even she softballed it when he was physically present.


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:30 PM
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Briefly, OT, AAAAHHHHH!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:31 PM
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A certain "aura" attaches to the head of state, and I think it'd be naive to assume that the average person would be clever and fast on his feet if Bush showed up unexpectedly.

A lot of that is because we would expect that he'd also be surrounded by the press, and we all get nervous when the press is around.

If I leave my office right now and he's walking down the hall alone towards me, I'll try to stand up straight and then look at him, and then go back to what I was doing. That doesn't sound too hard. But you're probably right.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:33 PM
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Slol, if I'm ever in the position to meet George, I'll be sure to wear my best cummerbund.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:33 PM
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72: I don't think it's the presidential thing at all--on the contrary. I think it's that deliberately and consciously snubbing another person is exceedingly uncomfortable.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:34 PM
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73: My sperm is six years younger, ladies. And has never been on Craig's List.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:35 PM
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76: Fuck you, BitchPhD.

See? Not that hard.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:35 PM
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I'm a great snubber, one of the best. My snubs hurt really bad.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:36 PM
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AWB, show up at his door with a collection receptacle, a porn mag, and a turkey baster.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:36 PM
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I dunno. When H.W. was running for reelection he turned up in my hometown on one of his tours and I went at the last minute. There were maybe a hundred people there, which isn't really that many, and I stood there and held a Clinton/Gore sign through his whole speech. At 18 that felt fantastically transgressive but I was able to work up the nerve.

Clinton spoke at UNC for our bicentennial when I was in Carolina Choir. The most fun part of all of it was at the dress walk-through that morning when a very nice Secret Service agent informed us we should stay alert since we were "in the shooting zone."


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:36 PM
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78: I have faith, Apo, that you'd be one of the few who would be up to a proper snub.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:37 PM
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I certainly wouldn't meet him today; it's 93 degrees out before humidity, and it's going to be a walk in the sun from any Metro to the White House.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:37 PM
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even she softballed it when he was physically present

But she's invested in being motherly.

(1) we're preparing ourselves by this thread, and so will now be more likely to do as we say and less likely to have unthinking politesse take over
(2) yes it's different if you go to the White House, that's why this kid won't go to the White House.

I'm at small risk of winning a prize that would induce the President to ask my company -- but if I did and he did I would decline the invitation for the same reason.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:38 PM
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Fuck you, BitchPhD.

See? Not that hard.

But everybody already knows that.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:39 PM
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if I did and he did I would decline the invitation

I'd have to come on Unfogged first and have you guys remind me not to be stupid.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:39 PM
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I would absolutely say no. They're much better at PR than we are, so the best you can do in a situation like that where the PR machine wants to use you is just say no.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:40 PM
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85: Baby, if you're not that hard, you can forget it.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:40 PM
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I think it's that deliberately and consciously snubbing another person is exceedingly uncomfortable.

Yeah, but this isn't like being passive-aggressive to the woman who stole your promotion. There's only like 15 people in the world for whom I feel intense, irrational emotions consisting of nothing but loathing and resentment. These include Bush, Cheney, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, DeLay, Santorum, Ralph Reed, Glenn Beck, Robert Mugabe. These are people I don't respect at all, because their accomplishments are entirely in the field of lying and taking advantage of people's trust. As for people who are basically evil but worthy of SOME respect, that would entail a lot of the world's less irrational dictators, like Putin. Rumsfeld I would probably be polite to.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:40 PM
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Rumsfeld I would probably be polite to.

There was a good story on This American Life about a woman who met Rumsfeld and told him she thought the war was a terrible disaster. He was polite to her.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:42 PM
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Also, no, I can't really back up my claim that there's a category of "less irrational dictators" that doesn't include Dick Cheney. I just have no respect for people who do nothing but lie from start to finish in all their public appearances. Putin and Hugo Chavez are not in that category.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:43 PM
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if I did and he did I would decline the invitation

And you know it would kill me, because how often do I get to wear my dress cummerbund?


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:43 PM
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Ned isn't even trying. Just among newspaper columnists there are at least 15 people for whom I feel nothing but loathing and resentment.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:43 PM
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92, you usually wear a casual cummerbund?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:44 PM
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92, you usually wear a casual cummerbund?

Long story. It's in the archives somewhere.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:44 PM
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Plus, charisma has a huge effect on one's ability to be rude. No matter what your feelings are about Bill Clinton, I've heard they melt in the presence of all those magical rays he puts out. But time and again we hear of people able to snub GWB to his face, that when you get up close to him, he doesn't grow tremendously with the aura of genius and personality---he shrinks and stammers. I don't think the job of president has that much to do with it.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:45 PM
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it's 93 degrees out before humidity

Count yourself lucky. It's 103 here.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:46 PM
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93: David Brooks I could punch in the face. And I'd smile while I did it.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:46 PM
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David Brooks? Nah, too milquetoast for it to be satisfying. Charles Krauthammer, though? I'd roll his ass off a pier given the opportunity.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:48 PM
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David Brooks is about my level, I think. I hate him, but I also just think he's a boob. It would be harder to punch someone I thought was responsible for actual evil.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:50 PM
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If I punched Brooks I'd be sure to wash afterwards. None more slimy.

Even on TV Clinton had incredible charm. I really disliked him before Monica came along, and I often had to remind myself that, objectively speaking, I disliked the guy.

But you know, once he got a few blowjobs from a 22-year-old I decide he was OK.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:51 PM
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92, you usually wear a casual cummerbund?

Starting here, and continually referenced ever since.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:52 PM
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The way to Emerson's heart is through your penis.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:53 PM
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I wouldn't say no.

I would laugh. and then every time they asked I would laugh some more.

every now and then I might say half finished sentences like "but why would.... anyone... hah hhaah ah hah... serious?"

and then laugh a lot more

sooner or later they would give up and leave.

I would watch their sad little backs fade into the distance as I stood there laughing, shouting

hey you all come back, bring your pr.. pres... ah hah hahh hah hahahh hah that one guy.... oh my god I got to tell somebody. hah hahhaha


Posted by: bryan | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:55 PM
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continually referenced ever since

Thanks, Matt. Although I'm normally less judgmental on the subject.

For example, it's really okay to have dress-up trousers without pleats.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 12:57 PM
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While I wouldn't ask anyone to not snub the president if they so desired, I think that politically it comes off poorly. (Refusing to meet, on the other hand, I find very elegant.) Your guy's not our guy, our guy's not their guy, turtles all the way down. It bespeaks partisan sissyfighting more than principled rejections of catastrophic politics.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:01 PM
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A slightly different question: If you were invited to be publicly fellated by the president, then would you snub him?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:03 PM
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Only if I got to come in his eye.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:04 PM
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109

For example, it's really okay to have dress-up trousers without pleats.

Damn straight. I also prefer mine without cuffs. If you're young and thin, with well-tailored shirts, flat-front dress trousers are the perfect way to brag about it.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:04 PM
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Will you allow side vents, slol? I recently got a suit for my sister's wedding and wanted a center vent, but the guy insisted that someone my age would do better with side vents. I didn't really care, so.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:04 PM
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90: I've never been close to Donald Rumsfeld, but I have been in the same church service with him and seen people go up to talk to him. I'm told that he's quite polite to a lot of people--even in a non-political context.

I knew one very liberal type who went to that church who didn't feel that he could take communion with him. Rumsfeld's always been Episopalian, but some people seem to turn Episcopalian in D.C. There was some big wig Republican at that church who was down on the books as something else. I think that it might have been the Republican whip in 2004.

I loathe Cheney passionately, but I don't feel that way about Rumsfeld, and I don't think that's particularly rational. I'm not sure that Rumsfeld is less culpable than Cheney in any material way, but Rumsfeld doesn't inspire the same level of visceral hatred in me that Cheney does.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:09 PM
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107 - no, I could probably parlay that into some lucrative writing gigs.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:10 PM
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Cheney I'm pretty sure I'd reflexively snub. No sense of lingering humanity there.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:14 PM
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114

Cheney wants you to snub him.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:16 PM
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115

Yeah, that's probably true.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:17 PM
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116

I would hug Cheney. That would throw him.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:19 PM
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If someone were to love Cheney, truly love him, he would probably just shrug and mention 9-11.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:22 PM
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118

B. tries so hard to be a bitch, but wholesomeness and conventionality always win out in the end. Nice Bitch!

Michael Moore told a story of accidentally meeting Jeb Bush and his bodyguards. He made it sound genuinely unnerving; Jeb and his crew had a threatening air.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:23 PM
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119

I would hug Cheney.

He would bite you.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:25 PM
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I have never snubbed a human being, other than maybe my mom, in real life. It's a personal flaw, I think, but I don't doubt it would extend to the president.


Posted by: rachel | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:26 PM
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Okay, we're definitely not sending rachel or Wrongshore.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:29 PM
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122

I'd be in a real quandary if I found out that Cheney was getting blowjobs from a 21-year-old.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:31 PM
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I wouldn't send myself. I do think I could refuse an audience, like the kid in question, bu the in-person snub is way beyond me. I could, I think, manage some sort of Wildean quip that would be too clever by half, which would be entirely lost on the recipient.


Posted by: rachel | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:35 PM
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106
It bespeaks partisan sissyfighting more than principled rejections of catastrophic politics.

I don't think so. Bush is especially bad. I've shaken the hands of a current Republican governor, although that's obviously not a president. I would have shaken the hand of Bush 41... well, maybe not, what with pardoning all the Iran-Contra people. OK, I would have shaken Reagan's hand... well, he's the guy that the Iran-Contra people were actually taken orders from. OK, I would have shaken Ford's hand... but he pardoned Nixon, though. And Nixon? Ha.

I exagerrate slightly; I probably would have willingly shaken the hands of Bush 41, Reagan and Nixon. Still, I had to think about it. I don't know if this says more about my level of partisanship or the quality of recent Republican presidents.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:36 PM
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116 I'd hug Cheney.

I might reach around, pinch his tush, then smile and wink.


Posted by: tonks | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:36 PM
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126

This -- a hundred comments on how best to socially snub the President -- is the true face of the angry Left. "Really make him suffer, by recognizing that decent people think ill of him!!" "My god, man, have you no mercy?"


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:37 PM
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I don't know. I've read people's responses, and I still think I'm right about the aura thing.


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:37 PM
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Believe 82, Adam.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:40 PM
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Well Christ, rachel, who can't manage a Wildean quip?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:41 PM
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124 -- Yes, but the thought "Wow, Cyrus wouldn't shake Bush's hand -- but he would shake the hands of prior Republican presidents" might be lost on a lot of people. I don't disagree that Bush is worse than all American Presidents save President Dr. No and President Cobra Commander, but I still say stay home.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:42 PM
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129: The fucking president can't, for one.


Posted by: rachel | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:43 PM
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"Either this wallpaper goes -- or this Administration does!"

"I have nothing to declare -- except your suckitude!"

(129: who can't? Wrongshore can't!)


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:43 PM
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126: True in a sense, but by that standard the angry right isn't nearly as bad as everyone says either. If it was, no Democrat who holds elected office could go out in public without being beaten within an inch of his life by vengeful rabid patriots.

Your point is well taken, but the flip-side of what you're pointing out seemed funny to me too.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:44 PM
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I was, sadly, thinking of the wallpaper one. Or something about calling a spade a spade.


Posted by: rachel | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:45 PM
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"We are all in the gutter, but you totally suck."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:47 PM
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I think if you could affect genuine religiosity -- perhaps speaking in tongues -- and then say, eyes rolled back, "God will not save this man", that might ruin his lunch.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:49 PM
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130
Yes, but the thought "Wow, Cyrus wouldn't shake Bush's hand -- but he would shake the hands of prior Republican presidents" might be lost on a lot of people.

True, but it would be equally true to say that a whole lot of other thoughts are lost on such people as well.

I don't disagree that Bush is worse than all American Presidents save President Dr. No and President Cobra Commander, but I still say stay home.

We mostly agree on this, then. (Bush is probably, in fact, a better president than President Luthor.) If I got an invitation, I wouldn't accept just for the fun of a reeeeally awkward half-second when he sticks his hand out and I surpress the urge to do the same. I was just thinking about a case when he came into my favorite diner or onto my neighbor's lawn for a photo op or something. If I unexpectedly encountered Bush somehow, and if I don't give in to the social/deferential reflex, then representing The Left (TM) badly or damaging the national comity is a very small worry.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:57 PM
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Actually, Rachel's Wildean quip seems like the right direction. A really cutting line, that most intelligent people would understand as cutting, spoken with sweetness and a smile. So that the president doesn't realize he was snubbed until he starts reading about it the next day.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:57 PM
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He reads?


Posted by: tonks | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 1:59 PM
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It seems like you wouldn't actually have to hate the president to turn down an opportunity to meet him; I can think of a few politicians who I like well enough, but wouldn't meet unless it was completely convenient. I don't know what else this kid has going on in his life, but think of how utterly disruptive it would be to fly to DC, have the secret service up your ass, and cakewalk out in front of the press. You'd have to have a compelling reason to put up with the hassle, and if you think about this kid's age, it's not like the office of the president has a lot of shine left on it in recent times.

Still, if it was a snub, it's about the best one could do, I think. Pretty much nothing you say to Bush would get to him, but the story of a young person like this who can't be bothered to meet the president or even give a reason why says more about the regard his countrymen hold him in than a put-down by an angry detractor.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 2:05 PM
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Point taken. "Fuck you clown," then. (Spoken with sweetness and a smile.)


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 2:05 PM
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119: And give you a disease.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 2:05 PM
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137: Mostly comity, then. I would encourage you to print up a small card that says, "Just so you know, I would happily have shaken the hands of several Republican presidents, so my refusal in this case is a sign of your own unconscionable abuses, not my hydrophobic partisanship." But don't give the card to the President; that could easily be confused for shaking his hand. Give to an aide.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 2:07 PM
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From the article, it didn't sound like the kid was making a principled snub, but is a little overwhelmed by his new status as the Hero of the Bridge.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 2:10 PM
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Your guy's not our guy, our guy's not their guy, turtles all the way down.

Except this guy, he's really just in a whole different league than any other guy. I would have been quite gracious about running into Reagan.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 2:16 PM
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Will you allow side vents, slol?

Side vents are fine -- look, anything's fine under the Joe Drymala/Fred Astaire exception, i.e., if you can carry it off, it's fine. As I recall, I understood the original question to be, if I'm going to buy one or two suits for business purposes (including especially job interviews) what should I get; I branched out from there, I admit.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 2:18 PM
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I would shake baa's hand.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 2:20 PM
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I see I was preempted by approximately everyone.

Just so you know, I would happily have shaken the hands of several Republican presidents, so my refusal in this case is a sign of your own unconscionable abuses, not my hydrophobic partisanship.

I'm having this printed up to carry around, just in case.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 2:22 PM
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I'd let w-lfs-n publicly fellate me.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 2:26 PM
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Meetup in North Carolina!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 2:29 PM
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I've read people's responses, and I still think I'm right about the aura thing.

There's an aura that comes from being surrounding by Secret Service, and there's genuine charisma. I've never met any presidents, but Neil Goldschmidt, a Clintonian figure, totally had it (pre-disgrace). I just don't see Bush as charismatic.

Side vents are fine

I've always thought of the center vent as some sort of bizarre American sartorial joke (echoing the butt crack). Side vents or no vents just look better on most people, don't you think?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 2:29 PM
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No one's mentioned Cheney's fear that Leahy was going to try to kiss him.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 2:37 PM
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Side vents are fine

Say... what about sarongs, then?


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 2:40 PM
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150: hardly counts as public.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 2:49 PM
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Side vents or no vents just look better on most people, don't you think?

Depends on your build, as ben's tailor says.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 2:49 PM
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Say... what about sarongs, then?

With your square leg suit?


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 2:51 PM
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Would that I had a tailor.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 2:58 PM
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I really like 136. I really, really, really like it.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 3:03 PM
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158 gets it right.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 3:05 PM
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I want to hijakc the thread.

HEy remember when Emerson said it didn't matter if HRC became prez, because a liberal congress makes it all ok and we'll get liberal stuff.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-stoller/waking-up-to-a-working-re_b_59839.html makes me think thats not that likely.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 5:09 PM
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I was sure I saw the current Tory leader in the local market, which is a non-zero possibility given that he's the MP for a place a few miles away and lives nearby. I felt quite smug about ignoring him, and then watched the news that night which was reporting on his visit to faraway-place. So it turns out, he must have a doppelgänger.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 5:21 PM
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Yoyo, are you commenting from your phone? And if so, is it not an iPhone, but, like, a desk phone?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 5:22 PM
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I didn't say that.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 5:32 PM
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163: are you sure? i couldn't find it on a search but i swear it was a bearded wise-uncle type


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 6:52 PM
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I've thought about this before. Despite everything, I've always been unable to shake the notion that Will Farrell's Bush is what he's really like. Had I saved some people, etc., and got invited to a photoöp--I'd be like hey, what's going on, let's make some jokes about Karl Rove running marathons or having a Swedish mistress, maybe get some blow. I want to be the kind of citizen who'll agree to a civic-minded event on a Saturday before indoctrinating schoolchildren on the horrors of the unitary executive on Monday morning. (Sundays are for reflection and volunteerism. And John Dewey.)


Posted by: Chun the Unavoidable | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 6:59 PM
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Chun!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 7:02 PM
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165: without question.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-10-07 10:24 PM
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I'm sorry but I am pretty sure that Cheney is gay. I think the marriage of him and Lynn Cheney is one of convenience, she is a lesbian he is gay, and their children are artificially conceived or that Lynn has allowed Dick to fuck her for the purposes of procreation only.

I also think that George Bush has at least had gay sex, and enjoyed it. Although I think there is a good chance that he is mainly straight I also think he is one of the more effeminate men I can think of in the Republican party, and it wouldn't surprise me if he is regularly doing some young hot guy.


Posted by: br | Link to this comment | 08-11-07 12:22 AM
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I notice that no one jumps on Chun for his diaeretic ways.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-11-07 1:12 AM
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My brother went to the viewing gallery in the Houses of Parliament on a school trip thing. He was quite the radical lefty at 17, and he told me afterwards that he had been sucking a sweet, and from where he was standing he would have been able to spit it straight at Tony Blair's head. He didn't in the end; Blair was actually popular in those days and what with being a Northern Irish Catholic my bro might have got done for terrorism; he would definitely have been destroyed in the tabloids.

Weirdly, I have had this fantasy for years about meeting Bush and snubbing him. It's not a very exciting fantasy. I don't know why I keep having it. I just see yet another news story about him and start thinking, boy, I'd like to SNUB that man! That'd learn him!


Posted by: kali | Link to this comment | 08-11-07 3:37 PM
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