Re: Questions, Questions

1

You're not serious about the tattoo?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 9:40 AM
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Why not?


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 9:41 AM
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3

The juxtaposition of the two parts of this post is fascinating.


Posted by: My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 9:44 AM
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A photorealistic depiction of a loved one, done in the style of a Wall St Journal portrait, would be better, IMO. Alernately, a series of these portraits as a mnemonic for everyone you've ever been intimate with.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 9:45 AM
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There are definitely whole groups of psychiatrists who don't really believe in MPD. Although they do accept that some people have issues that broadly overlap with the diagnosis as traditionally understood.

It's not commonly diagnosed in the UK, for example. It's been four or five years since I last did any reading on the topic, though.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 9:45 AM
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I'm totally serious about the tattoo. there's, um, not meant to be any connection between the two halves of the post. er.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 9:45 AM
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It is important to spring the idea on him while you are leaning over something so he can properly see the small of your back.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 9:47 AM
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ALso, although I've never met anyone who claimed to have MPD, although I did once used to know someone who had such extreme shifts of mood and character that it genuinely was, to an outsider, like watching two different people. I often wondered if they suffered from some mild dissociative disorder.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 9:47 AM
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She brought this up once in an emotional/confessional context, and has never alluded to it again.
One personality brought it up, and you haven't spoken to that personality since?
3- Seems vaguely Memento-ish


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 9:48 AM
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whole groups of psychiatrists who don't really believe in MPD

And these are the ones you'd want treating you or your loved ones. MPD: not real. I want to make an analogy here to recovered memories, but I'm not allowed.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 9:48 AM
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re 4, my friends and I used to torment my ex with the threat that while he was passed out from heroin and jagermeister we would drug him further and then tattoo photo-realistic portraits of jerry garcia and phil lesh on his buttcheeks, faces nestled together against the crack like they were leaning in together at the mike during an awesome jam. he used to get quite upset about it.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 9:49 AM
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Aren't the personalities supposed to be ignorant of each other? Also self-diagnosis == lots of assholes claiming to have Asperger's.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 9:50 AM
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13

I have 24-year-old tattoos. At the risk of stating the obvious, specific references are best expressed in a different medium.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 9:51 AM
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tattoo photo-realistic portraits of jerry garcia and phil lesh on his buttcheeks, faces nestled together against the crack like they were leaning in together at the mike during an awesome jam.

If you have to get tattooed while passed out, this would not be a bad tattoo to wake up and find.

A bull's eye in the same place would be a lot worse.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 9:53 AM
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re: 10

Yeah, my reading a few years back on UK treatment of 'MPD' was that psychiatrists here typically treated it as cases of people with issues integrating aspects of the self rather than as 'multiple personalities' and that the vocabulary that's built up around alleged diagnoses of MPD was largely not used.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 9:55 AM
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Shouldn't the "o" be a repurposed anatomical feature?


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:01 AM
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I think a Husband X tattoo would be funny. No, not his real name. Husband X literally.

But I don't have any skin in it and being a 47yo balding guy I am leery of tattoos.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:03 AM
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The tattoo is a fantastic idea. A friend of mine likes to point out that all tattoos are just temporary, anyway. Just spring it on the dude.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:04 AM
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While that would be awesome, Alameida, I'm sure we can find another way to win the Internet.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:05 AM
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I really want to get "unfogged" tattooed in gangsta gothic font on the small of my back now.

Awesome indeed, but wouldn't it compromise your anonymity if you went swimming?


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:06 AM
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21

I'd worry that the tattoo would make Husband X think of Ogged during sex and kill the mood.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:08 AM
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22

This is perhaps the silliest reason possible not to do it, but what with the secret identity and all, is there anyone likely to see it who you wouldn't want to know what it meant? And have you got a plan for that?

(Also, ugly font. If that's the idea, okay, but maybe something prettier?)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:08 AM
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If people are tattooing the blog name on themselves, the blog has jumped the shark


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:09 AM
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ooh, becks has brought up a good point in 21.

LB: nah, it has to be in the "thug 4 life' font, otherwise it wouldn't be as funny.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:11 AM
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ooh, becks has brought up a good point in 21.

This just occurred to you??? You know I love you, alameida (now perhaps more than ever), but I must insist that you run all your tattoo ideas by us first.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:13 AM
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21 - You're assuming that wouldn't heighten the mood.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:14 AM
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I can't actually find the Thug Life font anywhere, although we all know what's meant by it.

Is it a downloadable font containing letters other than T, H, U, G, L, I, F and E?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:15 AM
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13
I have 24-year-old tattoos.

Tattoos that have been on you for 24 years, tattoos of the sort that one would expect to find on a 24-year-old, or tattoos depicting or referring to 24-year-olds?


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:15 AM
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lw got 24 tattoos one year ago.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:18 AM
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15: That sounds about right. It's been an amazingly sticky idea, however. Recovered memory has been debunked with some (incomplete) success, but I meet lots of people who should know better that still believe in MPD.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:29 AM
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27: isn't it? (I can't click through at work.) What else could "thug font" be?

(I'd be disappointed if it isn't. I'm actually in need of a good font right now, and while THUGLIFE wouldn't fit the bill, it would be amusing.)


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:29 AM
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32

I really should preview posts.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:30 AM
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33

I don't think the font linked in 31 is right; more like this.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:33 AM
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31 - No, that's not right. I was thinking of something with scary gothic letters.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:34 AM
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I used to like to think of a tattoo as a message from my younger self to my older self about what was important to me at the time. Unfortunately, my younger self was pretty obsessive, and my older self arrived before my younger self could ever make a decision about what tattoo to get. So, I now have a message from my younger self about dithering.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:35 AM
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It's just a type of Fraktur font.

The Mariage font looks the closest match to me.

http://image2.myfonts.com/charactermap/1a/1a332bced6f7bee1fe87ebdc03150064.png


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:35 AM
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Although:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastard_%28typeface%29

Has the best name.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:36 AM
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38

You know those pretend tattoos that they have for kids. Is it possible to design one's one version. That way, alameida could have the thrill of having unfogged stuck on her back for a few days without the permanent consequences and without risking her loss of anonymity.

alameida, have you considered having this symbol painted on with henna?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:38 AM
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39

no mpd?
but i read all about it in 'sybil'.
and sometimes one personality is allergic to, say, orange juice, so much that it has anaphylactic shock right there and dies, and then the other personality is just all like, squeeze me another oj, and bartender i'd like a screwdriver too, and it's no problem.
and you're telling me that's all bs?
next you'll be telling me that shirley mcclaine didn't really rule egypt during the ptolemaic era.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:39 AM
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re: 38

Someone needs to design ink-jet printable ones. Like the printable iron-on sheets for t-shirts.

I bet they'd sell like hotcakes.

Actually, googling:

http://www.contrabandevents.com/performer.php?name=Bespoke%20Printed%20Transfer%20Tattoos&group=Face%20Painting,%20Body%20Art%20AND%20Tattooing&category=Henna%20AND%20Temporary%20Tattoos

They do bespoke transfer tattoos.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:43 AM
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Speaking of portrait tattoos: Have I told this story here? I hope not. Anyhow,

I was listening to a radio station which had a gimmick where the DJ was in a booth in the Metreon (a mall in San Francisco). The DJ gets on the air and says, "I'd just like to thank whoever came up with the low-rise jeans and midriff-baring tops. In fact, I'm going to try to get a couple of these ladies in here, hang on a moment."

So, a short song plays, and the DJ comes back on, saying, "Okay, hello ladies, now, I couldn't help but notice that you're both wearing low-rise jeans and midriff-baring tops, and you both have tattoos in the, uh,how could I put this, region between your bellybuttons and your belt-buckles."

Woman's voice on the air, sounding like it's probably a late high school or college-age person. "Uh, yeah, we just got them a few weeks ago."

DJ says, "So, yours is... That's an angel?"

Woman says, "Yeah, well... My mother died a few years ago, and we were really close, so I brought a picture of her in, and the tattoo artist made an angel with her face."

... Her mother's face. On an angel. In the area below the belly button, above the belt-buckle of low-rise jeans. Guarding the pearly gates, as it were.

Let it be known that I never want to be looking someone's mother in the eyes while I'm going down on that person.


Posted by: Epoch | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:44 AM
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42

I want that Bastard font.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:46 AM
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43

re: 42

Also this is great ...

"The face is available in three weights: Spindly Bastard, Fat Bastard, and Even Fatter Bastard.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:50 AM
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44

I still think "Comity!" in thug font would be the way to go.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 11:08 AM
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45

People, all these "problems" are easily solved.

It'll compromise your identity? Part of the genius of the blog's name, especially if tattooed above one's ass, is that it's ambiguous. *What's* unfogged? The revealed glory of Alameida's shapely bottom, emerging from the misty thought, "my, that bottom seems shapely" to poke its perky roundness up above the clouds of doubt? The glory of a flash of skin beneath the hated obscurity of clothing? It could be anytying.

Husband X loses his erection while thinking of Ogged? Wear a garter belt.

In short, I think you should do it. Then again, I've had a tattoo planned for six years which I haven't yet gotten because the person I want to do the work lives in Maine.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 11:09 AM
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41: In a similar (but less funny) instance of humorous religious misappropriation, the star basketball player in my high school was very proud of a tattoo he got on his arm towards the end of senior year. He was a white, wealthy kid who's father was a fairly famous author, and it was endlessly rumored that hew as having sex with one of the hot young teachers. The tattoo was a picture of a pair of praying hands emitting rays of holy light and the text (in, of course, Thug Life/Bastard font) read, "The first shall be last, the last shall be first."

Since he was rumored to have been kicked out of the United Nations school for fighting (har har), no one challenged him on it.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 11:10 AM
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47

my friends and I used to torment my ex with the threat that while he was passed out from heroin and jagermeister we would drug him further and then tattoo photo-realistic portraits of jerry garcia and phil lesh on his buttcheeks, faces nestled together against the crack like they were leaning in together at the mike during an awesome jam. he used to get quite upset about it.

In further evidence that I may not be trustworthy, Alameida, I have to say that anecdotes like these make dating a heroin addict seem like an awesome idea.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 11:13 AM
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48

43: I'm making the last one my official font.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 11:21 AM
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49

When I was researching claims of Satanic abuse and the recovered memory phenomenon in the '80s a while back -- for a review that's never going to see daylight, damn it -- all the scientific literature associated MPD with recovered memory, i.e. they're both iatrogenic. Same basic evidence: the disorder only exists in countries in which 1) there's some popular impetus (Sybil, Rosanne Barr, &c.) and 2) there's a robust psychoanalytic community. I could go into gloriously unpublished detail, if y'all would like, but you wouldn't, and the memory's painful.


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 11:25 AM
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49: In countries without a robust psychoanalytic community, MPD might be diagnosed as demonic possession. If it existed, which I don't think it does, but the evidence you cite doesn't prove it.

If Alameida gets her fraktur tattoo, it should be all-caps. So much thuggier.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 11:40 AM
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i have a friend who recently told us in all seriousness that she could tell what people were thinking by just being in the same room with them.

somehow she failed to pick up on the red-hot waves of "you're fucking crazy" coming off me.


Posted by: cleek | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 11:44 AM
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I've been rolling aroudn the idea of getting a tattoos of the tangent function (complete with X and Y axes) on the back of my neck. I have a bunch of narrative reasons, but leaving those aside, is this idea at all cool?


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 11:44 AM
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I don't know that anything in gansta gothic script can actually be tasteful, but the idea, on the whole, seems fully awesome to me. I think one should not solicit advice from real life people re: tattoos. They are far too likely to dissuade. Spring it on everyone, I think.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 11:48 AM
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If you do it, I see a whole lot of very dull sun-exposure related jokes in your future. Should I meet you, I'd be the first to say "Hey, nice tan! Been on vacation?"


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 11:49 AM
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the sun related jokes never occurred to me. Mostly because I worry that most people would not recognize a tan. I do hang out with mostly liberal arts types, but none of them do. Is this an innaccurate sampling?


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 11:52 AM
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LB:

You realize that most people are not very bright, right?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 11:53 AM
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52: Cool? Only if it's very slightly stylized and looks like a Hollywood computer graphics visualization of tan() - you know, unlabeled gridlines which taper slightly at the ends; if it's pixelated and labeled in Computer Modern, you suck. (The only person on the planet who would be cool with a tattoo using Computer Modern would be Knuth, of course. Well, okay, Knuth or anyone who's had sex with Knuth.)


Posted by: Hamilton Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 12:00 PM
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58

Her mother's face.

Truly wonderful, thanks.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 12:17 PM
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49: SEK, I'd be totally fascinated to hear all the glorious detail! Do expound.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 12:19 PM
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Sybil, yes, cool. (Also, especially cool.)


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 12:22 PM
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50: 'Course, you could argue that demonic possession is also an iatrogenic phenomenon.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 12:25 PM
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62

That Shirley Maclaine thing is really true.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 12:25 PM
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63

My ex had bouts of changed personality, where he'd "click" into another persona, while driving or watching a movie, for about a half an hour at a time. That persona was really terrifying, often homocidal/suicidal, talked about mass murder, beat me up and then tried to jump out the window, etc. It sucked. When he clicked back into himself, he remembered nothing, couldn't figure out why I was crying. He could not be made to remember being that other person or what he did or said.

At the time, I thought it was some kind of undiagnosed MPD, but now I'm pretty sure most of that fits into an extreme borderline personality disorder. He went undiagnosed until we broke up, at which time I never talked to him again.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 12:27 PM
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60--
so what's the amine that's especially cool?
i used to know that stuff, but all the memories are repressed
and i can't seem to recover them.

63--
jesus, awb, that's horrible. beyond jokes.
i don't know what the right diagnosis is, but the right treatment
is clearly what the judge prescribed for huck finn's dad, i.e.
'he said he reckoned a body could reform the old man with a shot-gun, maybe, but he didn't know no other way."
you were right to get the hell out.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 12:37 PM
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64: It's okay, kid. It was a long long time ago. But I do often wonder what it was that was wrong with him. He couldn't remember anything that happened to him before he was 8. The school counselor told him he had "anger" problems, but that really didn't seem to be the case. Thanks to the stalkability of social networking sites, I've found out he's a librarian now (much less stressful than his previous chosen position) and seems to be doing well, probably on some good meds.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 12:44 PM
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66

just a type of Fraktur font

But the history is interesting. Fraktur was adopted for the title of US news dailies (why?). Gangboys in at least Chicago used a crude imitation of this font rendered in spraypaint and sharpie (starting when?) by 1977, Lat/n K/ngs especially. Now it seems that spraypaint and sharpie have their own graphical style, one more closely related to Uncials, with fraktur relegated to tattoos, print, and webpages.

Without getting all personal, I'm not sure that I understand why the impulse to imitate gangboys ironically is not seen as malicious. If you made a point of writing lowlife fractured syntax, punctuating your speech or writing with "aiight" and "dogg" or whatever, like Achewood does, you'd have to be very careful, since you're mocking a group to which you don't belong. It could be like the white-boy banjo cover of Boyz n the hood, good for a superficial chuckle, but ultimately mean and shallow. I guess that a lot hinges on the complex and unknowable motives behing liking the stupid font. To me it seems ugly and primitive, the association with brutal circumstances that destroy decent lives only strengthened by Tupac's use and betrayed for profit by Calvin Broadus'. I don't think an ahistorical use of this font is possible yet, though maybe it's again a question of memory.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 12:46 PM
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That cover of Boyz N The Hood made me LIVID. Wretched stuff.

I like to say aaiight, though, just because it feels good to say. I'm pretty sure I say it with less irony/jocularity than I do, for example, "awesome," which is itself becoming rapidly bleached of any ironic distance at all for me, alas.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 12:50 PM
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66.2: I'm not sure that I understand why the impulse to imitate gangboys ironically is not seen as malicious.

People are generally able to get away with it because, as much as it borrows the pop-cultural cachet of gangland culture (itself directly dependent at least in part on the "brutal circumstances that destroy lives") it also implies an ironic gesture of self-deprecation about one's own square-ness and externality to hat world. To talk about "an ahistorical use of this font" is nonsense, the humour comes from the historicity.

Of course it's worth wondering at what point it all just collapses into something like this. Irony can only keep you aloft so long. But it's not really that hard to make a case for why specific and more restrained instances aren't malicious.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 12:58 PM
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67--
the suppression of the liquids in 'aaiight' reminds me of the brief vogue in post-revolutionary france for suppressing the letter 'r'.

there was a group of young dandies who would mince around paris waving their handkerchiefs and saying, "en ve'ieté, c'est inc'oyable!"

i mean, from the opposite end of the preciosity scale.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 12:58 PM
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70

Phonological reduction is always with us.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:02 PM
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71

The privileged young men and women populating these Williamsburg parties are no doubt destined for leadership roles in government and industry

Ha!


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:03 PM
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72

66: that's some well thought out googleproofing. Street gangs make the lamest trolls.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:03 PM
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73

what, you want guys spraying spray-paint all over the front page?


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:04 PM
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To me it seems ugly and primitive

I just don't get this. Most of the fonts associated with graffiti, gangs, etc., are incredibly beautiful: ornate, mannered, highly self-conscious about form. Love them.

I also love the word "aight"?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:05 PM
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Technically, T/p/c should also be googleproofed.

71: Well yeah, obviously dude's not political scientist. But he's broadly right about the rest.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:07 PM
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Please, it's "a'ight". Similar to the east end "bo'le."


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:08 PM
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77

From the link in 68:

Go watch Spike Lee's Bamboozled for a quick primer in this form of defensive racism.

Says it all very well, very passionately and very clearly.

I have long had a thing for Spike (scroll way down).


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:09 PM
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78

?"


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:10 PM
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79

!"!


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:12 PM
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80

(That's a good comment in the Slate thread.)


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:13 PM
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you want guys spraying spray-paint all over the front page?

It appears that the answer depends on whether they use a tasteful font; they're to be approached with self-deprecation under some conditions.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:14 PM
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graffiti, gangs,etc

I see these as very different, I guess. Graffiti is kids growing up in the city, edges into murals, a form of folk art, often very nice. Gangs are something else.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:19 PM
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Thanks, doc.

Also note: EVERYBODY gets a little gangster on now and then. Gangsters themselves are probably gangsters no more than Cary Grant was Cary Grant. It's hardly the exclusive preserve of the ironic enwhiteled, although our tendencies towards it bear unpacking.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:20 PM
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84

"Unfo" right knuckles, "gged" left knuckles. Right to left for the reader's benefit.

Fraktur would be better than Gothic. The actual Gothic script used by Ulfila, or runic script, would be preferable, however.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:33 PM
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85

am I too late to defend the acoustic "boyz in the hood"?


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:34 PM
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86

Without MPD shit movie plots would be severely impoverished. This cannot be allowede to pass.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:38 PM
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87

am I too whilate to defend the acoustic "boyz in the hood"?


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:38 PM
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88

68 is exhibit one in The People vs. Cocorosie. Exhibit two would be their interminable set at the big Touch and Go anniversary party last year. We get it! You're múm without the bizarrely listenable Icelandic genes!


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:39 PM
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85: you are not. Proceed.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:39 PM
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85: Besides, the banjorrific version of "Gin 'n Juice" is better.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:39 PM
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91

You know you've hit rock bottom when Slol pulls his street cred on you. If EZ-E isn't a parody-rich environment, what is?


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:39 PM
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Alameida doesn't post here enough anymore to deserve the Unfogged tat. I assume ogged or LB would tell her to go get tagged by some lesser, rival gang, like the Muslims or the Aryans.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:43 PM
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93

Or the Nielsen Haydens.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:45 PM
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94

when Slol pulls his street cred on you

I know that only you can beat me out in the Whitey McWaspson competition.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:53 PM
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95

I do love that Gin'n'Juice cover.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:53 PM
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93: The Nielsen Haydens, lesser than Unfogged? Please - Teresa alone could beat the entire commentariat into a bloody pulp before breakfast.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:54 PM
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The Electrolitariat have been lording over us for far too long. It's time to take it to the streets.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 1:57 PM
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I hadn't properly contemplated the overwhelming whiteness of Slol and Labs at the same time. Now I feel like I've stared at the sun for too long.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 2:00 PM
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94: Hey, I'm the one who came up with the whitest thing ever said. (IIRC, "It's my understanding that the blues doesn't have to scan.")


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 2:02 PM
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Hey, I'm the one who came up with the whitest thing ever said.

Overt competitiveness is so street, LB. What are you, Irish?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 2:05 PM
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It's amazing how many cultural realms are laden with what George W. Bush would call "the soft bigotry of randomly choosing something created by ethnic minorities and pretending that it's a work of genius, because you are unable to view such things objectively".

What the hell are all these music writers going crazy over Clipse and Lil' Wayne for? There are rappers out there who actually speak sentences that make sense about interesting topics, you know.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 2:15 PM
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101: as opposed to doing the same thing with works by the ethnic majority?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 2:19 PM
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101: I haven't listened to much Lil' Wayne, but from what I've heard, both do have very clever lyrics and rhymes. (If you can tolerate the rampant sexism, cult of violence, etc.)

Also, I think it's less about race than about counter-intuitively praising popular culture. Sasha-Frere Jones, who's most annoying about this, once wrote some gushing praise for Fall Out Boy, IIRC.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 2:26 PM
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Hey, I'm the one who came up with the whitest thing ever said.

But I think I at least get honorable mention, and judged so by a true connoisseur of the form too!


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 2:30 PM
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103: I personally think it's about actually liking popular music, without necessarily think about it in terms of high or low culture of any such nonsense. Because it is nonsense. I think Li'l Jon, for instance, has made some extremely well produced, novel music that's done really interesting things for the state of hip-hop. But of course it's hugely popular, so I must be pulling some kind of weird double-reverse racism, and should really stick to boring nerds like Deltron 3030.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 2:33 PM
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Which is not to say that Sasha Frere-Jones isn't annoying.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 2:34 PM
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How many rap fans are there are Unfogged?


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 2:48 PM
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I like Sasha Frere-Jones. Having a significant nerdy snobby hipster tendency, counterintuitive praise of pop culture has led me to hear awesomeness in the work of Ms. Spears and Mr. Timberlake which I might otherwise have dismissed. And the good thing about the counterintuitive praise bit is that it allows that 90 percent of everything is crap, just maybe not the 90% you've been ignoring.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 2:52 PM
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See, it would be good if people could stick to praising people like Lil' Jon purely for musical qualities and completely ignoring the lyrics, like Sifu here. That's honest.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 2:54 PM
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108: but see, I think that the idea that praising pop culture is counterintuitive is itself counterintuitive, or at least redolent of a needlessly snobby attitude. Many of the greatest works of art of all time were explicitly popular culture, yet we should somehow assume that it is awful or craven by default?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 2:56 PM
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109: the man wrote a song where every line in the chorus ended in "shit", and turned it into a number one hit on the radio. That's pretty darn subversive, and kind of awesome.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 2:58 PM
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Certainly it's more interesting to me than a rich white dude who's all choked up about how bad he wants to bone another rich white dude's wife.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 3:04 PM
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have you seen the wives on rich white dudes lately?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 3:05 PM
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the man wrote a song where every line in the chorus ended in "shit", and turned it into a number one hit on the radio. That's pretty darn subversive, and kind of awesome.

That's not awesome. It's stupid.

And it's not subversive. The number one hits on the radio are entirely songs that appeal to status-seeking and/or whiny 14-year-olds. Who cares what they like?

Many of the greatest works of art of all time were explicitly popular culture, yet we should somehow assume that it is awful or craven by default?

For the above reason I would say that we should assume that anything on Top 40 Radio is awful or craven by default. But I still try to view it objectively. The Timbaland/Timberlake songs are mostly exceptions to this rule. So is Ludacris.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 3:05 PM
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109: I honestly do enjoy the lyrics, although I more enjoy the delivery and ingenuity of the rhymes than the actual content. (If you want an example, I really dig the opening verse to "Gone," by Kanye West, as well as Cam'ron's opening guest verse on the same track.)


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 3:06 PM
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How can you possibly like Ludacris while saying that we should completely ignore the lyrics?


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 3:08 PM
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110: I think a principled writing-off of pop culture is needlessly snobby, but I've found that by reading intelligent writers on pop culture (Ann Powers in the LAT is really good) I can reliably tune out a lot of noise and receive a lot of signal. MP3 blogs, the same. Listening to the radio is not as efficient.

This is nerdy, but it works.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 3:09 PM
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I didn't say that, I said the only way to honestly say you like Lil' Jon is to ignore the lyrics. Ludacris is good at writing lyrics.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 3:10 PM
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Fair enough. "Let me give you swimming lessons on the penis / breaststroke, backstroke, stroke of a genius" might be my favorite couplet of all time.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 3:13 PM
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Watch out for the medallion, my diamonds are reckless
Feels like a midget is hanging from my necklace


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 3:15 PM
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121

You baby MCs drink Pedialite
While underground doesn't love you but the media might


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 3:25 PM
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122

You ain't bad, I'll show you what bad is
Bad is when you're capable of beating the baddest
I been workin' at it, ever since I came to this planet
I ain't quite there yet, but I'm gettin' better at it


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 3:28 PM
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You ain't bad, I'll show you what bad is. H-Dogg forever.

110: I'll pipe up in favour of the need for snobbery. The record industry's Top 40 output over the last decade and a half is, mostly, in a class of awful all its own. A certain amount of suspicion off-the-top is completely warranted.

That said, anyone who can't appreciate Jay-Z, Kanye West or Lupe Fiasco was born without a soul.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 4:07 PM
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124

Thank goodness for the "or" in 123. I was afraid I had 2/3rds of a soul. I didn't really get into the Black Album, or the Grey Album, or even the Slack Album (Jay-Z vs Pavement, case ya missed it).


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 4:13 PM
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I can't understand a damn thing those rappers are saying.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 4:24 PM
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Oddly enough, I still don't have the Slack Album. I'm not really enough of a Pavement fan. The Grey Album is a thing of beauty, though.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 4:24 PM
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Speaking of rap, here's Dizzee Rascal dropping some old-school style [moving away from his usual grime stuff into hip-hop] ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIF0lxWTQ9g


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 4:39 PM
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The uncensored version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=225l7EszBzM


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 4:41 PM
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FWIW, while the top 40 tends to be crap, there's a lot of great stuff around at the moment outside the top 40.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 4:48 PM
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Despite it's apparent trollishness, 125 is sincere. Is it just a matter of practice?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 5:12 PM
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122 reminds me of some really great track banter, from T-Pain:

Tebunon
Pedelaphagis
From the planet Teleguston
Yeah


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 5:13 PM
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130: Just like understanding cabbies.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 5:17 PM
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133

Phonological reduction is always with us.

Always already with us.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 5:23 PM
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134

schon wieder noch.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 5:29 PM
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135

The definitive space-alien banter is Dr Octagon, surely.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 5:30 PM
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God, I love Dr. Octogon. 119 is pretty fucking awesome, though. Is that Ludacris?


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 6:15 PM
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135: He didn't make a whole persona out of it, but Roots Manuva definitely gets points for having worked the Tardis into a rap lyric.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 6:26 PM
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136: Yes.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 6:45 PM
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I love Dr. Octagon, just to get my white boy on for a minute. I don't like Del's delivery, and his lyrics are just a bit nerdy for li'l me.

I was, honestly, being trollish when I talked about how awesome Li'l Jon's lyrics are. But I do dig Crunkstyle.

I also really dig Dizzee, but not quite as much as I dig Lady Sov.

My favorite stupid, dirty pop music right now is Bailé Funk. Some friends of mine are playing a show with Bonde Do Role in September, which I couldn't be more excited about.

Bonde Do Role is hella inauthentic, but damn that girl rules.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 6:56 PM
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re: 137

I love Roots Manuva. Both for his lyrical content, the whole anxiety and doubt thing he has going in much of his stuff, but also just the tone of his voice, which is so different from other rappers.

I also really dig Dizzee, but not quite as much as I dig Lady Sov.

Dizzee did a track with Matthew Herbert's jazz big band, on a British TV show, that I can't find anywhere online. The combination of Herbert's electronica thing, the big band, Gil Evans type arrangements, jazz improv and Dizzee's flow is just outstanding.

I like Lady Sovereign too. It's more of a mainstream sound, I think, but her flow is great.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:15 PM
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Only seldom can we date the emergence of a psychiatric syndrome with
such precision: Multiple Personality Disorder (or MPD, as it is known to psychiatrists) was born in 1973 with the publication of Flora Rheta
Schreiber's book /Sybil/.


Posted by: joeo | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 8:36 PM
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Dizzee did a track with Matthew Herbert's jazz big band, on a British TV show, that I can't find anywhere online. The combination of Herbert's electronica thing, the big band, Gil Evans type arrangements, jazz improv and Dizzee's flow is just outstanding.

That does, indeed, sound awesome. Herbert's Moloko remixes are some of my favorite smarty-pants house music.

I saw Dizzee Rascal play live with the Jaxx at Coachella, same set Siouxsie Sioux and uh, all the other people from that album showed up. That was a hell of a time.

Lady Sov at coachella was, uh, drunk. And had heatstroke. Funny, but maybe not in the same league.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:06 AM
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Also, re: 142

This is a piece of smart freestyling too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC0ZFJAuGEw

from a BBC radio show. Sway is disappointing but when Dizzee comes in at about 0:45 (especially the section after the DJ messes up) he's really impressive.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:13 AM
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Hah, fresh. I wish he'd taken one of those to a longer phrase, but then again, what am I complaining about?

I love the speed grime MCs can manage in their rhymes. For some reason that double-time stuff just sounds better to me in a british accent. More clipped?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:19 AM
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Hah, fresh.

I think you mean "fetch."


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:20 AM
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re: 144

Yeah, I think the guys (and girls) who've come out of the grime scene have real skills that is missing from a lot of mainstream hip-hop, or not missing as such as there's still people that can do it, but it's not really a major part of the mainstream anymore. Probably because the freestyle battle thing is still a big deal for the grime MCs.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:22 AM
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that *is* missing? gah. *are* missing I mean.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:23 AM
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148

*what* is missing


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:25 AM
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145: I... I do?

But why?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:25 AM
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Fetch.

To bed!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:29 AM
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To bed!

Okay.

A Mean Girls quote? Sure, Perez.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:38 AM
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Am I the only commenter that has actually played a show with Doctor Ock? Ouch. Everyone has like thirty goddamn creds fewer than I. I reiterate: ouch.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:44 AM
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On reflection, he wasn't playing as Dr. Ock that night, so I'll take fifteen goddamn creds and call it even.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:57 AM
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re: 152

Yes, Stanley, you have all the creds.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 1:07 AM
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155

Yeah, they have flavors. Good flavors. Mmm, creds.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 1:13 AM
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ttaM: Non-trollingly, I think 146 got at what was bugging me about this conversation. So I should've just read the thread more carefully, rather than skimming.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 1:20 AM
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update: husband x is strongly opposed to the tattoo idea, and rightly suspicious that I'm going to go do it anyway. I called him earlier after a meeting and on my way to the bank, and he was like "are you at the tattoo parlor? you better not be getting unfogged tattooed on your ass!" see, now I feel like it'll be even funnier. I think the compromise position is to get another tattoo as well, one I've been planning for a long time. then it won't seem so jarring. that probably only makes sense to me, though.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 1:53 AM
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Just popping in before I crash, but: 157: all systems halt on the unfogged tattoo. Would it really be meaningful without the support of the mineshaft? Not that it wouldn't be totally awesome, but if you let us think about it for a while I'm sure we could do better. If you must: arm band.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 2:06 AM
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159

I think you mean "fetch.".

I think he means "copshow".


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 6:25 AM
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I think 156 sort of doesn't make sense.

Also: mmm, creds. "What you ain't know? Steady flow's my deposition, I bet you wishin' you had it but you suffer from repetition..."


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 6:43 AM
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re: 159

The current British yout' seem to favour 'nang'.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:12 AM
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162

As a compromise perhaps you could get a more staid Crooked Timber tattoo, including Crooked Timber's trademark 42D naked lady holding a whip.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:27 AM
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re: 162

Amy Winehouse style.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:29 AM
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I think that, even at the height of the MPD craze, most shrinks who weren't glory hounds or pop-psych faddists thought that it was being overdiagnosed, if they thought it existed at all. One clue to the inherent bogosity of the alleged disorder is how subsequent accounts kept raising the bar for the number of personalities: Eve had three, Sybil had sixteen, Billy Milligan--a serial rapist who insisted that the rapes were really committed by, get this, one of his alternate selves who was a lesbian who was "desperate to be held and caressed and loved"--had 24, and Truddi Chase had as many as 92. All of the above were the subjects of best-sellers, and all but Billy Milligan were the subjects of movie adaptations; Milligan is working on his own. It makes for good psychodrama.


Posted by: Halloween Jack | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:41 AM
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Did MPD ever merge with "past lives"? They seem to be almost the same thing.

In some legal case somewhere one attorney insisted that a witness had to be interviewed in each of her personalities. Possibly in the same case, a man was sent to jail for a considerable period based on "recovered memory" testimony.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:44 AM
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However, Ala's butt tattoo is the real topic of the threat. I apologize for going off topic.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:45 AM
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167

Would it really be meaningful without the support of the mineshaft?

Um, all the more so. The ultimate inside troll job.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:47 AM
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Does Ogged have Unfogged copyrighted? He could sue Ala's ass if he does.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:51 AM
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169

"Trademarked"


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 9:57 AM
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