Re: Numbers Game

1

Odd wording of the statute. I guess it was put in to prevent restaurants from complying by putting it in teeny-tiny flyers near the register.... and it's weird to say 'If you don't provide caloric information, there's no problem, but if you do provide it, you will be penalized for not making it the same size as the rest of your order."

Also, Subway is nasty.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 6:14 PM
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Just pretend that comment made sense. My dissertation is eating my brain.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 6:15 PM
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I don't know, but I'm guessing there's some reason they can't just mandate provision of the information, or they would have -- that's the way it sounds. And you're right about the teeny tiny flyers -- I remember a couple of years back noticing that McD's had nutrition information on the underside of the paper tray liner. You know, the piece of paper that's already stuck to the tray with condensation and spilled soda when you get it, so there's no chance you'll pick it up to read the underside.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 6:29 PM
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Probably because the fancy-schmancy restaurants would have bitched, and there's no practical way to say 'your franchise serves pre-measured crap, so put up nutritional information.'


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 6:32 PM
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Do they actually do geo-based IP blocking? Like were you prevented from getting access to the nutritional information? Or did you just see the link to the NYC stuff?

Seriously though, if you craft regulations with exemptions, this is exactly what you are going to get. See CAFE standards and light trucks. Either tell whatever special interest you are protecting with the exemption that you can't give them what they want without giving a bunch of other people something you don't want to give them, take more care in crafting the exemption, or deal with this kind of shit.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 6:46 PM
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Fuck Wendys, anyhow. Those bastards ripped me off. Of course they're shady.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 6:46 PM
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What did Wendys ever do to you?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 6:47 PM
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My sister and her friends used to use "Wendys" as a derogatory term for trashy mall-rat girls. I imagine them setting upon Tweety like mid-80's Bacchae, tearing him limb from Z'Cavaricci'd limb.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 6:49 PM
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Wendy's, like all fast food, is delicious. The self-righteous and the elitists may claim otherwise, but the claim is false.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 6:56 PM
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Maybe they sold his finger to some San Jose scam artist in a bowl of chili!


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 6:57 PM
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7: they stole the name of my time machine for their new sandwich.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 6:58 PM
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I keep saying this, and I think people keep ignoring me because they think I'm a crazy person. But it's 100% true.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 6:58 PM
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Fast food is nasty. Except for French fries, but there are better place to get French fries than Wendy's.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 6:59 PM
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Subway would be fine if their bread wasn't so appalling. Adding more varieties only seems to have made the problem worse. Whenever I eat Subway, I am always filled with self-loathing.

Putting a Subway in a gas station doesn't make the Subway seem gross -- it makes the gas station seem gross.

Also, I hope Jared dies. He's a worse actor than Jerry Seinfeld.


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 6:59 PM
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Hey hey, goodbye, tomorrow Wendy's's going to die.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:01 PM
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9: As a good midwestern boy who has moved to the city, I know I'm supposed to be grossed out by fast food, but I'm just not. (Subway excepted.)


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:01 PM
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Because I'm going to back in time and destroy it, yes.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:01 PM
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Baconator, eh?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:02 PM
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Mm hm.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:02 PM
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Wendy's, like all fast food, is delicious. The self-righteous and the elitists may claim otherwise, but the claim is false.

It's almost like someone took my trolling post as a set of instructions.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:02 PM
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I don't mind cheap food, just McDonald's and the like. Everything tastes like salt.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:03 PM
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It's almost like someone took my trolling post as a set of instructions.

Now who's trolling? We've had this discussion a few times in the past: fast food is delicious. (We all have our favorites, and I think at least one thread enumerated them.) That's the problem.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:06 PM
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So your time machine baconates? Is that something it does in addition to traveling through time, or is the baconation an integral part of the time traveling mechanism?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:07 PM
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Sushi doesnt have calories, right?

And neither does red wine.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:07 PM
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22: Did anyone love Subway? I find that genuinely hard to imagine. Subway: uniquely revolting.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:08 PM
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23: it runs on whiskey and bacon.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:08 PM
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26: Doesn't everything? I know I do.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:09 PM
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You can see the whiskey and bacon feeder tubes in some of these pictures.

A schematic.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:10 PM
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27: everything important, yes.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:11 PM
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Bacon
When I'm hungry
Whiskey
When I'm dry
There's my lady
For my lovin'
Religion
When I die.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:11 PM
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Mmm. Whiskey. I am now in the enviably private-eye like position of having a bottle of Bushmills in my desk, although admittedly I don't drink in my office, I just haven't brought it home yet. But maybe I'll get a couple of glasses and start offering people slugs of it when they come by my office after 5.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:11 PM
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I love you, ogged.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:12 PM
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Running on bacon isn't really an act of baconation -- more like reverse baconation, if anything, it seems to me.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:12 PM
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Look, it's a fucking Baconator. I don't try to question the intricacies of time travel. It works, that's all I know.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:12 PM
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Brock Landers:

You are the guy who claimed to be a cyclist right? You are a cyclist no more if you like fast food.


Posted by: Willy Voet | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:12 PM
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And more to the point I'm pretty damn sure that Wendy's actually stole the name.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:13 PM
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22: One for the record books -- I agree with SCMT.


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:14 PM
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34 - The Baconians, however, do not lack the countenance and assistance of highly distinguished persons, whose names are famous where those of mere men of letters are unknown; and in circles where the title of "Professor" is not duly respected.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:15 PM
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Where did 30 come from? The version I heard (as a toast) was

here's to beefsteak when you're hungry
whisky when you're dry
Greenbacks when you're busted
and heaven when you die


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:16 PM
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Kotsko, Timbot, I like a lot of fast-food too. 9 was still trolling.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:16 PM
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I claimed to be a cyclist? News to me. I treasure my erections too much to ride bikes very often.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:18 PM
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Oh, nevermind then. I guess it was someone else who was talking about riding in Europe then.

There's a current pro cyclist who has 13 children.


Posted by: Willy Voet | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:19 PM
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Where did 30 come from?

It's from Townes Van Zandt's Abnormal. A great, great album, by the way (almost totally bleak, but great).


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:20 PM
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I, like all universally correct in every opinion with respect to fast food people, like some of Subway's sandwiches.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:20 PM
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Subway keeps road-tripping vegetarians alive.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:21 PM
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Bacon is so, so awesome. Bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon bacon. I've always loved bacon but after not eating it for a while due to needing to fit into the wedding dress, wow. You can put bacon on nearly everything!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:22 PM
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Americans need to introduce lardons into their diet.

Actually, give the obesity of Americans, maybe they do not.


Posted by: Willy Voet | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:23 PM
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ogged, your characterizations lacks refinement. 9 had the accidental characteristics of trolling, but its essential substance was not trolling.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:23 PM
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Continue to eat enough good food, and your palate will learn that fast food is almost universally disgusting.

41: I thought the deal with cycling was that it reduced sperm count, not that it caused erectile dysfunction. I mean, uh, I've spent a lot of time in the saddle, and it didn't hurt me none.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:24 PM
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Since when has Brock been a scholastic?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:24 PM
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Subway totally kills it for me by having all their components out in the open under the sneeze-cover dealie. Who the fuck thought "we make it in front of you!" was a good idea, especially in a cuisine whose grossness is as universally acknowledged as it's tastiness? That transparency shit only works for Krispy Kreme.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:24 PM
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I'm not sure if 17 was to 15, but if it was, let me offer that if you want to destroy or kill Wendy's tomorrow, you may not need to use the time machine.

Unless you're in a huge hurry.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:25 PM
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I have not eaten in a Wendy's, McDonald's, or Burger King since reading Fast Food Nation.

I may not exactly be a big hippie, but I know icky when I sees it.

Also, ride recumbent, Brockster.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:25 PM
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45: you're not kidding. There are a lot of places on the interstate where Subway is pretty much the only thing a vegetarian can eat (other than, like, Doritos) for hundreds of miles. Maybe the meat there is way grosser than the non-meat (I wouldn't know), but other than that I don't really see what people find so EXTREMELY ICKY about it. The bread? It's bread.


Posted by: Brodysattva | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:25 PM
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42/49: maybe, I dunno. But it's nevertheless hard to really treasure an erection while riding a bike.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:26 PM
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I had a friend who's dearest fantast was to have sex on a salad bar stocked with nothing but chickpeas, sweaty flesh going squeet, squeet, squeet against the sneeze-gard.

Is that relevant?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:26 PM
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Continue to eat enough good food, and your palate will learn that fast food is almost universally disgusting.

This has proven false for me. I was eating a lot of good food for a while, both home-cooked and fancy-schmancy restauranty, and I still loved Wendy's and even KFC.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:26 PM
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There are an awful lot of relevent, scientific-looking google hit for "cycling erectile dysfunction".


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:27 PM
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Irrelevant, but not therefore less vivid.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:27 PM
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52: I'm really lazy, so I'm going to wait a couple years and then go back in time to tomorrow.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:27 PM
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Why chickpeas?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:27 PM
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37: Kotsko:

Burke is Future You if everything breaks right; I'm Future You if (let's be honest: when) the acid on your tongue finds its way inside and burns away the protective tissue of your heart, letting darkness enter your soul. Compromise, compromise, compromise. Self-serving solipsism, self-serving solipsism, self-serving solipsism. Blithe assurances, blithe assurances, blithe assurances. See you at the Club.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:28 PM
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If you're not using it, can I borrow your time machine, ST? There's some elections I need to address, and butterflies to step on, and oh, all kinds of stuff.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:28 PM
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61: you'd have to ask him. I think he liked them quite a bit.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:29 PM
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61: Maybe it's because they kinda look like tiny disembodied boobs?


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:29 PM
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How ya doin, Timmy?


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:29 PM
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Huh, I wonder what I ate all those times I drove cross-country, since it wasn't Subway. I guess I cooked a fair amount, out camping, and ate a lot of cereal. I'm not even sure what it is about Subway that makes it so super gross to me, I just can't stand it.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:30 PM
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57: Patience, grasshopper.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:31 PM
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Subway's meatball subs are delicious. Their deli meats blow.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:31 PM
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It's the slime that coats everything on the sandwich. The meat sweats. The peppers sweat. The cheese sweats. It soaks into the bread and sogs the sandwich.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:32 PM
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63: well, it's semi-disassembled right now, and it only works in the approximate geographic location of Burning Man. Otherwise, yeah, I guess. It's a little tricky to run with a lot of accuracy, all the standard caveats about paradoxes, you need to be on acid for the effect to be really pronounced, etc. etc. But I could give you some lessons.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:33 PM
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Actually, reading a few of the links, I think there's a pretty strong consensus that long distance bike riding causes problems with ED for a not-at-all-insignificant number of people who do it.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:34 PM
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65: been enacting some scenes from Giantess Magazine, there, LROC?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:34 PM
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67: Maybe the answer is that you are no longer alive. All fear zombie rfts.

71: Will it be assembled for this year? Will you be there? Meetup?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:35 PM
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72: there's special seats you can get, porn star. Speaking of, I'll see you at DJ Nitetrain, right? Heading over now.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:35 PM
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Actually, reading a few of the links, I think there's a pretty strong consensus that long distance bike riding causes problems with ED for a not-at-all-insignificant number of people who do it.

That's also my impression, and I know there's a post somewhere in the archives about it.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:35 PM
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But it's nevertheless hard to really treasure an erection while riding a bike.

It's funny now, Brock, but if the verb 'treasure' comes to mind every time I have a hard-on, I'm going to fucking hate you.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:35 PM
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77: Try "Cherish". Then you can sing the Madonna song to yourself. "Cherish the wood we have / I will always cherish"


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:37 PM
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Actually, reading a few of the links, I think there's a pretty strong consensus that long distance bike riding causes problems with ED for a not-at-all-insignificant number of people who do it.

In that case, I refer you to my neighbor who said, when he learned we were having twins, "Man, I knew you had somethin' going' on!"


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:39 PM
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OT musing: time to stop working on your dissertation when you've just written 'don't cross the streams' in the chapter.

---
78: And then mermaids will pedal your, uh, bicycle!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:39 PM
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Ahem. Goin'.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:40 PM
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73: Actually, it was an observation I first made at about, oh, nine or ten years old, in a typical nine or ten year old way. You pedo. (Chick peas feature prominently in my mom's chef salad, which was one of like three things she could cook when I was growing up.)


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:41 PM
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When Subway first opened in downtown Montreal, it was the only non-gross food a vegetarian could eat at St. Laurent & St. Catherine. (Kick ass Vietnamese food was blocks away.) What happened? It got gross? You could get a cucumber sandwich, and monitor them making it - worked fine for me.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:42 PM
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I like chickpeas but only when they've been turned into falafel.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:43 PM
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Put me down with the people who don't see the problem with Subway. It's a sammich. Y'eat it. 70 - Slimy? Tell them to hold the oil.


Posted by: Hamilton Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:49 PM
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Link to the great fast food debate? I don't want to reyell what's already been yelled, but some yelling needs to occur. I will say that regional fast food (Nation's, In-n-Out,etc...) tends to beat national chains hands down.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:50 PM
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In-n-Out isn't fast food, it's optimized food. Different!


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:51 PM
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60: I keep telling the company I work for that they should commit all their manpower to the time travel project, which will make it much easier to hit all our development milestones, including those for projects we've already shipped. Sure, in the short term we'll slip everything else...


Posted by: Hamilton Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:52 PM
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85: Sure, it's a sammich, but most towns have superior sammich factories that have things like real bread. I suppose it's like Starbucks: OK if you're crossing the country, but otherwise an invasive species.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:52 PM
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Forgive me if this begins to impede on the sanctity of off-blog yadda, but HL, any amusing stories from the Circus? I should not be as gleefully fascinated with their ineptitude as I am, but...


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:53 PM
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My sister and her friends used to use "Wendys" as a derogatory term for trashy mall-rat girls.

When Jammies is the only guy, hanging out with a bunch of girls, I call us girls Jamaal-rats.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 7:53 PM
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87: How so?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 8:03 PM
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9 is some inferior trolling by Brock. Has anyone seen him lately? Is he sick? Does he have a fever? Maybe some chicken soup is in order, or at least some Chicken McNuggets.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 8:13 PM
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I loves me some bacon but, damn, that macaroni and cheese with bacon I had last night is still doing a number on my stomach. If that turns me off of bacon, I'm going to be so pissed.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 8:16 PM
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94: It was the cheese, not the bacon!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 8:18 PM
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95: Partisan lies! Why can't it be the macaroni?


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 8:19 PM
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94: The pizza was great. You shoulda had the pizza.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 8:20 PM
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Maybe it was the beer?


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 8:20 PM
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Macaroni and cheese with bacon is so delicious it ought to be considered fast food.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 8:21 PM
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The beer got me. I woke up at 5am, too drunk to sleep anymore. (My friend Bryan calls this phenomenon "recovery sparkle.") I irrationally and desperately wanted hot cocoa, despite being overwarm already. I made hot cocoa and read a book until 10am, when the hangover started, so I went to sleep until 1pm. Perfect!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 8:23 PM
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I see Brock is starting to feel better. Whew!


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 8:23 PM
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92: If you can represent the entire menu as a tree four levels deep, it is pretty optimized. This notwithstanding.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 8:30 PM
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I haven't read through this entire thread, so if this is incredibly off the current topic or has already been linked to, ignore it.

Anyway, the ragging on Wendys early in the thread reminded me of the great protest against Wendys' racist, redheaded logo.


Posted by: Lurky McLurkLurk | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 8:33 PM
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102: Compare KFC.


Posted by: elemund | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 8:44 PM
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Wait, is that the same Sirlin?


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 8:47 PM
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Oh, yes.


Posted by: elemund | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 8:59 PM
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Y'all know why Wendy's burgers are square, right?


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 9:06 PM
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They don't cut corners...


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 9:06 PM
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July 3, 1996

Today I bought a small Frosty. This may not seem significant, but the fact is: I'm lactose intolerant. Purchasing a small Frosty, then, is no different than hiring someone to beat me. No different in essence. The only difference, which may or may not be essential, is that, during my torture, I am gazing upon your beautiful employees.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 9:16 PM
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Recumbent bikes make me seethe. Also tandems. Fuckers, think they're all special.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 9:59 PM
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Also: BMT, Italian Herbs and Cheese Bread, bacon heated up (just the bacon, now, don't give me this knockoff Quizno's toasting shit), brown mustard, mayo, lettuce, pickles, black olives and pepper. Yum, haters.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:01 PM
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102: Ah, order-description optimal. That is different from what I consider chain fast food to be, which is revenue optimal: McDonald's et. al. provide the most scalable profit-per-tasty-unit known to man, which is why I dislike them. Local chains provide better tasty-unit-per-price (Nation's) or better absolute values of tasty (Barney's). Big fast food chains really have no comparative advantage over their local competitors outside of scalability. I take that back: the big national chains may exert sufficient market pressure that they may a)crowd out potential competitors, and b)perversely define tastes for burgers/unhealthy food in general. Neither benefits the consumer.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:01 PM
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Letters to Wendy==Funny as Hell


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:02 PM
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I had a chocolate bar with bacon bits in it the other night. It was damn good. Try it if you ever find it.

Also, Ogged is right, eating fine foods does nothing to diminish the taste of fast food. Eating too much of it, on the other hand, works like a charm. How much is too much can vary from one meal a day, in the case of In N Out, to several bites, in the case of KFC. Anyone who claims that fast food doesn't taste good ignores the fact that it has been strongly engineered to be craveable.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:23 PM
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Anyone who claims that fast food doesn't taste good ignores the fact that it has been strongly engineered to be craveable.

Precisely. Although I suppose if one grew up in a milieu where one never ate fast food, one would not experience the cravings as an adult and wouldn't understand the appeal.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:25 PM
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Although I suppose if one grew up in a milieu where one never ate fast food, one would not experience the cravings as an adult and wouldn't understand the appeal.

Heh. You think?

The question is whether the craving (= desire for salt and fat) is unlearnable. And, I suppose, whether one things it should be.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:32 PM
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Fast food has been engineered to be cravable, yes, but also uniform, cheap, and deliverable quickly by the minimum waged. I'd argue that the latter three are more emphasized than the first.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:33 PM
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The question is whether the craving (= desire for salt and fat) is unlearnable. And, I suppose, whether one things it should be.

Of course it should be.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:40 PM
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Fast food is engineered to be craveable by a population conditioned to crave it. The craving is unlearnable, or rather the non-craving is learnable.

Ideally, the well-fed should cultivate an appreciation of hunger, the greatest sauce. And yet, bacon is essential. Meditate upon this.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:48 PM
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(petulantly): You forgot whiskey.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:56 PM
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90: Nothing good on my end besides whining about their email reading comprehenson skills. I'm on the wrong end of the beast to get good stories out of it.


Posted by: Hamilton Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 10:57 PM
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120: Whiskey is a double-edged sword. A little can sharpen the appetite, while a lot can cut through it. An intermediate amount can at least hold the appetite at bay until enlightenment or the next morning's hangover, whichever comes first.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 11:08 PM
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Recumbent bikes make me seethe.

Seethe ... with envy.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 11:18 PM
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122: what does "first" mean, in an era when one can freely surf the time stream?

OT: Brock totally missed out. DJ Nitetrain was far and away the best disco DJ I've ever heard.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-15-07 11:53 PM
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123: Are you serious? Where was this?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:00 AM
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123 s/b 124, rather obviously.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:01 AM
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Midway Cafe, Jamaica Plain. The man is authentic.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:03 AM
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I left electronica when I left the BA, circa 2000/AK1200. Is he worth checking out as an old man?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:06 AM
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He's a lot older than you are. I said disco, I meant disco. The most recent track he played was probably "Warm Leatherette".


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:07 AM
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To repost, the DJ in question.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:08 AM
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Oh, ah.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:26 AM
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Libertarian sing-song voice: This is what you get! Or, alternately, this is what Wendy's gets if like-minded people pressure them into putting the nutrition information back up. I don't care -- there's nothing wrong with people exercising their buying power to make Wendy's do something.

I think that you'd be hard-put to argue that when the law of the land gets down to regulating font-sizes, that it hasn't gotten a bit overly specific, but in this case, it seems like probably the democratic process has everything well in hand.


Also, c'mon, I eat fast food like maybe once every couple of months, and of course it tastes good. Fatty, salty, sweet foods ALL taste good. The low quality of fast food means that it doesn't taste as good as similarly fatty, salty, sweet foods that are made of better raw materials and more skillfully prepared, but it still beats almost all non-fatty, salty, sweet food.


Posted by: Epoch | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:30 AM
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fatty, salty, sweet foods that are made of better raw materials and more skillfully prepared

Would the handful of olive-oil-roasted Marcona almonds with sea salt and spoonful of raw honey I just ate count? No skill there, but damn. Yum.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:37 AM
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I also add: fast. And cheap.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:37 AM
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133: Seriously. You don't need skill to make unhealthy food that sends you reeling: you just need to know your own tastes. I don't even need the expensive things AWB has: halfway decent bread, one freshly yanked basil leaf, half a shitload of minced garlic, crushed chilis, and good olive oil works for me. I'll die a bit sooner, but I smoke, so there.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 12:44 AM
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Is that an English shitload or a metric shitload?


Posted by: feldspar | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 1:11 AM
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Metric shitoad, Imperial shiteload.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 1:13 AM
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It is quite possible to find American fast food, and McDonalds in particular, repulsive if you have grown up without exposure to television or factory food. The food of my childhood was quite differently repulsive (milk in lumps all summer, unsweetened porridge) and I don't miss it. But the smell of fast food frying makes me want to retch.


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 1:28 AM
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I never ate a bacon double cheeseburger at Wendy's (the only fastfood chain I frequent, BTW). But when they renamed it The Baconator, I couldn't resist trying one. I wasn't hungry again for like a day and half.

Related anecdote: There is a business school urban legend, possibly true, that Wendy's almost never sells a triple cheeseburger. They introduced it and keep it on the menu because its existence drives up the sales of the double cheeseburger ("Well, I may be pigging out, but at least I'm not having the triple.")


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 1:47 AM
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Actually, I lied about Wendy's being the only fastfood restaurant I frequent. That gift from heaven known as Chick-Fil-A also earns my custom.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 1:53 AM
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120: also whisky. (Whiskey = Irish, whisky = Scotch.)


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 3:00 AM
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A lot of fast food is, to me, fairly delicious. A properly cooked burger is nice, fish and chips, pizza, all good. A good kebab is a thing of wonder [and actually quite healthy if you aren't having one of the elephant-leg ones].

I can go into a reverie about deep-fried haggis in curry sauce. This can't be strictly about upbringing -- I don't believe kids would find it repulsive if they were brought up on health food. My parents were hippy vegans and I had learned to cook home-cooked food pretty well before I ever stepped in a burger restaurant.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 3:42 AM
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What Cala said. Subway only recently became big(ish) in the UK, and I had my first one a few years back. I got a roast beef sub, couldn't understand why it was soggy, and never went back. It's not as if there are no other sandwich shops in London. I don't understand why you'd go to a Subway in preference to another sandwich shop.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 4:08 AM
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Whiskey also= bourbon
except for Maker's Mark.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 4:09 AM
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139: yeah, well, you're welcome.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 5:09 AM
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I'm late to this, but want to share 2 things:
1. Fast food really does taste awesome, and you can teach yourself to think it's gross but, in my experience, it never really takes.

2. A few months ago I was at a trendy party, held during the dinner hour, where people were very thin and entirely inadequate quantities of food were served. I get very hungry; at one point I was in the bathroom, closet eating multiple skinny bread sticks wrapped in proscuttio, because there were only enough for one per person. Anyway, being still starved when I left, I drove through Wendy's and order a small chicken nugget. What I got was a triple cheeseburger. It was disgusting, like utterly and totally revolting, but I have since felt that Wendy's, as an institution, was tapped into me on some cosmic level and was trying to show me (to their own detriment I might add) the unattractiveness of my own gluttony.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 5:53 AM
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146.2: The book in 109 was written, apparently, for you.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 6:16 AM
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Maybe it was written by me.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 6:18 AM
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Maybe it was written by Wendy's, through you.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 6:24 AM
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Wendy's writes a letter to itself, expressing the complexities of its self-image, via the voice of a neurotic contemplative nerd type. Yes, that might be it.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 6:27 AM
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Wendy is Dave Thomas's—the other one's— younger daughter. Her older sister was a high school classmate of mine.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 6:54 AM
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I have no idea in the world what makes people think Subway's bread is different from other places'. I've heard this about twenty different times online, and never in real life.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 7:49 AM
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Related anecdote: There is a business school urban legend, possibly true, that Wendy's almost never sells a triple cheeseburger. They introduced it and keep it on the menu because its existence drives up the sales of the double cheeseburger ("Well, I may be pigging out, but at least I'm not having the triple.")

Just about every retail outlet does something similar.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 7:51 AM
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I have no idea in the world what makes people think Subway's bread is different from other places'.

Taste. There is something soft and mealy about Subway bread that is only otherwise found in Wonderbread. I say that as someone who likes Subway.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 7:52 AM
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SCMT's right. Subway bread here is sort of sugary sweet compared to standard rolls. Also, generally, most places round here use crusty bread rather than soft whereas Subway stuff is very soft indeed.

And, like SCMT, I say that as someone who doesn't particularly mind Subway. Some of their fillings are nice.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 7:57 AM
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I once went to a restaurant in Rome where there were separate menus for men & women. The women's menu listed calories, while the men's menu listed prices.


Posted by: cw | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 7:59 AM
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the smell of fast food frying makes me want to retch

My mom and exbeforelast have this reaction. They have in common being healthy eaters with small appetites. And I love a lot of fast food, but McDonald's which I've had within the past couple of weeks, really is pretty nasty. I don't enjoy eating it.

A properly cooked burger is nice, fish and chips, pizza, all good. A good kebab is a thing of wonder

Is this what people mean by fast food? I'd be more inclined to call that "take-out," and reserve "fast food" for the chains that serve the industrialized hyper-processed stuff.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:03 AM
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Also, generally, most places round here use crusty bread rather than soft whereas Subway stuff is very soft indeed.

I'm used to soft bread in any chain restaurant, which means virtually every non-ethnic restaurant.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:03 AM
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re: 156 and different menus

Bohemia Bagel in Prague has different prices on the Czech and English menus. And not in the direction you'd expect.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:03 AM
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re: 157

Well, kebabs and things I'd think of as fast food. They perform the 'drunken stomach filling' role. You're probably right about pizza, though.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:07 AM
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I used to like Arby's more than any other fast food place, before I decided not to eat beef. Now it's Chick-Fil-A.

I don't know if Oggers' dichotomy between "fast food" and "take out" is true. A lot of even slow-food places get entrees that have been heavily processed and designed by food scientists and basically just have to be heated up. I don't think the local gyro place by my office makes anything themselves, they just put things together.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:08 AM
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I would use "fast food" to refer to large chain places like McDonald's and "take out" for any of the various cheap food places, like the noodle houses around here. The distinction isn't really about health: TGIFriday's is just as processed as McDonald's but it isn't fast, and the noodle houses might be less processed but they're not really good for you.

Considering kebabs to be fast food is something I definitely associate with British colleagues, as they lament that they're drunk and have no kebab place to stumble into.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:12 AM
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Chik-Fil-A, while delicious, is owned by a religious nut who gives a lot of money to conservative charities including, for a while, pro-life groups that thought it was OK to kill doctors who perform abortions.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:18 AM
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163: You have to take the rough with the smooth in any relationship, Becks.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:20 AM
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I like Arby's and Wendy's in that order. urger king and McDonalds are for emergencies only.

At McDonalds the fish sandwich is pretty good, however. With slightly more interesting bread and a non-mayonnaise sauce it would be great. The steamed bun is a nice touch.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:20 AM
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re: 162

I used to have a local kebab place that made genuinely excellent kebabs. I miss it terribly [it's 4 miles away now].

One night I was in there and a girl came in upset that she'd been followed by a strange man as she left the pub, and she didn't want to walk any further [up the dark deserted street].

Tthree of the four Turkish guys behind the counter immediately armed themselves with cleavers and went out looking for him while the fourth phoned her a cab.

Top-notch customer service.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:21 AM
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My guess is that noodles are pretty good for you, especiallu pho type.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:22 AM
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Weird question, ttaM: do you all still think in terms of miles or are you translating on the fly?


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:23 AM
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Going to a falafel shop fills any need I might have to watch someone fry stuff and put it in bread for me. However, a Subway veggie max (toasted Gardenburger with provolone) with lots of veggies and no sauce? Delicious. Oh, and I haven't been to Chipotle in a long time, but that is ridiculously desirable, quite often. Also, I really appreciate their desire to bring ethical treatment of animals up, even in ads right next to where you order. I'm a veg, so it doesn't actually affect what I eat, but, as we've talked about before here, it takes the major food chains to make ethical, hormone-free livestock practices sustainable.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:23 AM
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Note that Chipotle is great with their pork and chicken policies, but say nothing about beef. I go there more than anywhere else for lunch, almost always for a carnitas burrito including both pinto beans and onions/peppers, tomato salsa, green salsa, cheese and lettuce.

Beef is unsustainable use of resources anyway.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:25 AM
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re: 168

Miles. Brits have a weird quasi-metric thing happening.

Weights are generally kilograms, except when talking about people or food, when it's pounds (or stones). Distances are miles, except shorter distances which are given in meters. Very short distances are given in inches, but shorter still in millimetres. People's heights are given in feet and inches.

That might sound like I am kidding, but I'm really not. As other Brits will confirm.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:26 AM
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170: I think they do promise hormone-free beef. Don't know about life quality, though, but cows usually have it somewhat better anyway. Of course, beef is unsustainable, but I don't want to knock it in mixed company. I'm from Kansas City, and that argument just doesn't fly.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:31 AM
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See to me barbecue means pork.

Maybe I shouldn't move to Kansas City after all.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:32 AM
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There is other stuff to eat in KC, a lot of it, actually, but they are famous for gigantic, mouth-watering, perfect steak and beautiful pork ribs with spicy spicy sauce. I became veg shortly before moving away, and it seems like pretty good timing.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:36 AM
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Just about every retail outlet does something similar.

JC Penny's, for example, sells a shirt with three sleeves and octagonal collar points. No matter how fancy a two-sleeved shirt I buy, at least I'm not draping myself in that.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:45 AM
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That might sound like I am kidding, but I'm really not. As other Brits will confirm.

It's very confusing at first. The best part is the complete mental block that some Brits have about thinking in a unit of size that they often use, but for different objects.

Actual conversation from my first year:
- So how much do you weigh?
- 155 pounds
- *blank stare*
- Errr.. oh yeah, 70 kilos
- *blank stare* How much is that in stones?


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:47 AM
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No wonder they lost the Empire.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:48 AM
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My memory of KC is that the fast food outlets serve beer ("Beef n Brew" is what I remember). I've been told that Budweiser owns the state.

Of course, that was in 1976, before AWB was born.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:48 AM
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179: I lived in Missouri (STL) until I was 6, and yes, Bud owned the state. We went to the brewery for field trips all the time. But I did my late childhood/young adulthood on the Kansas side, not far from State Line.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:52 AM
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Chipotle is absolutely my fast-food weakness. Laced with delicious crack.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:53 AM
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Vegetarians eating Subway and Doritos would seem to be clear-cut evidence that vegetarianism is for people who don't care about food.

The problem with Subway--aside from the revolting bread--is that everything they make has that characteristic "Subway" flavor. What the fuck is it? It's horrifying.

Of course, all fast food is horrifying unless you're starving, in which case your brain takes over and says "FAT GIMME NOW."


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:55 AM
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Bohemia Bagel in Prague has different prices on the Czech and English menus.

Wow. Do you know if this is a steady state (i.e., not to be explained by incompetence in updating only one spreadsheet) ? My experience is that the price discrimination is either more subtle (i.e., no english or german outside and a discreet sign indicating price category is cheap, prominent real estate anywhere is expensive-- simplest algorithm is turn down a side street to save half) or on the intiative of the individual "serving" you.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:55 AM
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179 to 178, of course. I hate it when I create infinite loops.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 8:58 AM
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Misguided metonymic thinking alert on 181!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 9:01 AM
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re: 182

The key difference is that the drinks with free refills are more expensive on the Czech language menu than they are on the English language one. The food is mostly the same price, iirc. My wife assumes that's to stop Czechs hanging out there all day and to encourage the more free spending backpackers who hang out there.

That's what I meant by 'not in the direction you'd expect'. It's more expensive for locals rather than tourists.

simplest algorithm is turn down a side street to save half

Yeah, that's true. Or, in the region of Staroměstské Náměstí, turn down a side street to save a lot more than half.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 9:02 AM
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Canada switched to the metric system sometime during shivbunny's lifetime, but it hasn't quite taken completely. All building materials are still measured in the English system. There was an experiment with metric plywood but it didn't quite work.

Speed limits and temperatures are in metric, but the grid of rural roads in Alberta is laid out in miles. You can buy deli meats and spices by the gram, but shivbunny knows he's 5'10'' and 200 lbs.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 9:02 AM
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re: 181

I will defend the deliciousness of deep-fried haggis in curry sauce with my dying breath. Which, if I ate a lot of it, would be soon.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 9:02 AM
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I believe that most people who are saying Subway is disgusting have mostly had that experience with its meats. Really, the veggie sandwich is a perfectly adequate veggie sandwich. Not as good as a real sandwich, so don't go there if you're in a real city, but a decent pile of sliced and shredded vegetables with a slice of cheese and bread that neatly fulfills the purpose of not getting grease on your playing cards.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 9:03 AM
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184: Yeah, yeah. I'm just saying, how anyone can eat either is beyond me. Okay, once in a blue moon Subway, fine. But seriously, Doritos taste like vomit.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 9:04 AM
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188: Nope. I mostly eat their veggie sandwich when I go there. Yuck.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 9:05 AM
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188: No, I'm a vegetarian.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 9:05 AM
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Doritos are not food. I get that reaction to a lot of things if I am forced to eat them. It's not that they taste "bad," exactly, it's just that my brain reacts as if I'd just mysteriously put a handful of iron filings in my mouth.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 9:09 AM
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No wonder they lost the Empire.

The best is that your car odometer measures distances in miles, but petrol is sold in litres. So if you want to figure fuel efficiency, you're measuring miles per litre. (Or the other way around if you drive an SUV.)


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 9:11 AM
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The problem with Subway--aside from the revolting bread--is that everything they make has that characteristic "Subway" flavor. What the fuck is it? It's horrifying.

Nope, no idea what you're talking about.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 9:11 AM
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A notable feature of Subways is the tremendous variance between stores. The one right across from my office is great: fresh ingredients, friendly staff, fast service. The one near my house? So bad, even the rats won't go near it.


Posted by: dob | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 9:18 AM
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Evidence: against 188! Another hypothesis: the bottle with the oil? Really has pee. Next time, ask to hold.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 9:18 AM
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The Subway near my grad school used to be top-notch. Everything was fresh and clean (though I still wouldn't eat anything with "sauce" on it). Then they went and fired everyone, replaced them with guys who do not wipe the mustard/mayo off the knife from the previous sandwich before using it to fold mine. I won't be back. I know that's babyish, but where there are visible uncleanlinesses, there are invisible uncleanlinesses.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 9:24 AM
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On the topic of breads, what in the world is wrong with you people that like that bread with the charred cheese burnt into its top? That's just gross.


Posted by: dob | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 9:29 AM
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Like invisible cockaroaches! Who can fly and shoot force beams from their deelyboppers.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 9:30 AM
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Another hypothesis: the bottle with the oil? Really has pee. Next time, ask to hold.

LMAO.

(Suck it, haters.)


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 9:34 AM
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"haters" being people who don't hate Subway?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 10:05 AM
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Being whoever's going to get all snooty about my writing "LMAO."


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 10:14 AM
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171: What you say is correct. It's mostly a legacy of the decimalisation of sterling in 1971, and subsequent EU directives. The government thought decimalisation was going to be chaos, so they only decided to only go halfway. There was also a big debate about whether or how to metricise road signs - distances would either be awkward numbers or the signs would all have to be moved. As it happens, people got used to it pretty quickly, with the exception of some older people. As for petrol/gas, it's sold by the litre and the gallon, but the British gallon is different from the US one.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 10:16 AM
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The problem with Subway--aside from the revolting bread--is that everything they make has that characteristic "Subway" flavor. What the fuck is it? It's horrifying.

So completely true.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 08-16-07 10:41 AM
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