Re: Nice Light

1

Probably because you're an awful person. It wasn't Frowner, was it?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 3:31 PM
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That the relationship eventually went sour means nothing. That you were hot for her physical Swedishness - and had an obvious thing for the other Swede - means a lot more. Swede-lover.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 3:41 PM
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His Grant vs. Astaire post is actually a pretty good one.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 3:41 PM
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Frowner claims not to be blonde. Her physical appearance is, in fact, not blonde. But I have the feeling that something else is going on.

All brown guys are drawn to Swedes like moths to an icicle. It's in their genes.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 3:43 PM
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What's really amusing is that the most attractive and most stylish Swedes are by far the non-white women: the lovely black girl with the Afro, the older Indian(?) woman with the white hair, and those Arab(?) girls in the white jumpsuits.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 3:46 PM
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If there had been Swedes on the veldt in the Pleistocene, they would have been very popular.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 3:46 PM
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Being a bit perverse, I first thought, gee, did the Sartorialist only take pictures of thin people or is everyone in Sweden so beautiful, and then I came to the picture of the girl wearing her father's shirt as a skirt... the one with plump unfashionable people in the background.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 3:49 PM
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How many brown guys are there? Half a billion?

There just aren't enough Swedes. Even throwing in the Finns, Danes, Faeroese, etc., there still would be enough.

Thank God for hair science.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 3:50 PM
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When I was in Paris I was struck by how blandly, if nicely casual everyone was dressed. In Stockholm, young people tend to be more dressed up. They have a style. But you also see more wannabe stylish badly dressed people.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 3:50 PM
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5: Exophile.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 3:51 PM
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did the Sartorialist only take pictures of thin people

Yeah, he only does. And the women tend to be very thin. I've often considered a post complaining about that, but came to my senses each time.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 3:51 PM
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The two guys in plaid looked weird to me.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 3:51 PM
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I'm willing to believe that almost everyone in Stockholm is thin. It's true of Vilnius.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 3:54 PM
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Leggings is pretty awful current trend.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 3:56 PM
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It's not even all just thin. It's that all of his pictures of women seem to feature women of the same body type: thin, small-breasted, and leggy.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 3:56 PM
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And as someone pointed out in his comments the other day, often not even dressed so fabulously. The 'would look good in a potato sack' type.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:00 PM
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seem to feature women of the same body type

Yup. I basically stopped checking the site regularly because of this. It's a blog! Do something interesting!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:00 PM
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I was just thinking that, Blume. Some of the clothes were great, but a lot I looked at and thought that it was pretty much a combination of short hemlines and stilettos.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:02 PM
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When I was in Paris I was struck by how blandly, if nicely casual everyone was dressed.

IMLE, the Parisian reputation--is there still one? was there ever really one?--for fashion is undeserved. I'm not sure there's any place in America that I can't find at least one yuppie.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:03 PM
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My E is also rather E, of course. Maybe they were casual, because it was so hot?


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:05 PM
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Rather L, that is.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:05 PM
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Yeah they're of a type. But what amazes me is being able to take pictures of total strangers. I don't have the gumption to do that. I feel uncomfortable taking pictures of crowds let alone individual strangers.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:05 PM
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Well, I guess it's safe fro me to go to Paris now. But not Stockholm.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:06 PM
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I think part of the reason the Stockholm posts are more interesting is that there seem to be more regular people from the street, and not hey look, it's Carine Roitfeld [/other big fashion person].


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:07 PM
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I'm not sure there's any place in America that I can't find at least one yuppie.

Try here.

Unless this is one of those "Wherever you go, there you are" scenarios.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:07 PM
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If there had been Swedes on the veldt in the Pleistocene, they would have been very popular.

And if there had been any sort of textile manufacturing on the veldt, those Swedish women would have dressed themselves in pink. (Women like pink lipstick because men used to hunt big game or, uh, something like that).


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:08 PM
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15, 17: I thought it was sort of a tenet of fashion that "couture" is actually designed to be wearable only by such body types.


Posted by: Rousseau | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:11 PM
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Arg. "We put a thousand people growing up in our modern culture in a room and were surprised women gravitated towards pink so we'll talk about hunters not needing to see color." Wasn't it true about a hundred years or so ago that pink was a boy's color because it was so much more vibrant and too bold for baby girls?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:12 PM
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27: There was a great Project Runway episode where they asked the designers to design for each others' mothers, and it was great to see their little designer faces crumple as they realized that they didn't know how to design for something that didn't have a 23" waist.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:13 PM
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None of those people are wearing "couture." They're wearing regular clothes, and it seems that the subjects are selected for their sense of style, but often the women are selected because they're hot.

(Did I manage to make that sound like a complaint? Where's my cookie?)


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:13 PM
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Do people really argue that pink-and-blue are hard wired? I knew it as an iron law when growing up, but never thought its origin could be anything other than historical accident arbitrarily standardized.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:17 PM
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Haha, he put up a couple of new pictures; check out the woman at the top of the page now? Who's built like that, except for all the women on that site?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:17 PM
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I was, as a ten-year-old.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:19 PM
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Uh, yes, without having read much of the thread, they are all very thin.

That does it.

I'll be commencing my rigourous diet and exercise (to coincide with cooler weather) in the fall.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:19 PM
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30: Well, I can't see their labels, true, but most seem to be at minimum wearing heavily couture-inspired styles.


Posted by: Rousseau | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:19 PM
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So when I wear a sport coat it's supposed to be much too small and have the top button buttoned, so the lines of the jacket accents my hourglass figure?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:24 PM
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And as someone pointed out in his comments the other day, often not even dressed so fabulously. The 'would look good in a potato sack' type.

This is a funny example of that.


Posted by: joeo | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:26 PM
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38

37: It's Cindy Crawford's daughter!


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:28 PM
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Wasn't it true about a hundred years or so ago that pink was a boy's color because it was so much more vibrant and too bold for baby girls?

Yes. Pink was seen as a youngish version of the vibrant colour red, while blue, seen as the colour of innocence and purity, was considered more appropriate for little girls.

But what's a hundred years or so in the grand sweep of things? These evo-psych researchers don't like to confine themselves to within the boundaries of actually known and knowable human history.


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:30 PM
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The labels seem to be more a NY/Italy/Paris thing. I don't recognize these things, but if you ever look at the comments, there are people who can name each piece of designer clothing.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:32 PM
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This might be less idiosyncratic. 1, 2, 3, etc.

Idiosyncratic in a different way, at least.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:32 PM
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Funny, David W, the first woman at your "2" is also on the Sartorialist's site, wearing the same dress.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:38 PM
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41: That seems to be exactly the same, except with ads flashing back and forth in front of the photos.

I like the girl with the Pat Benatar hair and the old-fashioned dress, though.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:39 PM
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Not the same; more than one female body type at Weman's links.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:44 PM
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Huh, I didn't notice. The same phots are featured on Dagens Nyheter, our paper of record. Maybe he tracked her down?

http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=2808


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:45 PM
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40: Yeah. So! I blame the Sartorialist for exercising his moral agency to become immersed in the corrupt no-real-women-please fashion industry, but not necessarily for picking his individual subjects. His picks I blame on the industry, for whose existence, then therefore, we mere mortal consumers are culpable.

In short: sorry for the skinny chicks. Totally my fault. But also yours.


Posted by: Rousseau | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:47 PM
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Maybe he tracked her down?

His comments say that he shot her the last time he was in Stockholm as well. She's probably a model.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:50 PM
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She's a model, though waering her own clothes. They normallyhave regular people, but show models b/c it's "Stockholm Fashion Week".


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:51 PM
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no-real-women-please fashion industry

Not to pick on you, because I almost used the same locution, but skinny chicks are real people, too, and some of them look great. It's the lack of variety that irks.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:52 PM
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I don't see a dropoff in attractiveness when you get to "regular" people. Not sure I believe they find them on the street, which is the conceit.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 4:55 PM
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You're insane, Ogged. With a few exceptions, the Swedes in those pics are much worse dressers than the Italians in the pics before.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 5:04 PM
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I'm willing to believe that almost everyone in Stockholm is thin. It's true of Vilnius.

In the summer of 2001 I went from the Baltics, to Finland, to Stockholm in that order. People were noticeably larger in Stockholm.

There should be photos of people in Skansen.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 5:07 PM
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49: I probably should have capitalized Real Women, since at this point it's basically a term of art. But then I would have sounded like a snot in the other direction, I fear.


Posted by: Rousseau | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 5:19 PM
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The best dressers in Europe, are, in my experience, in London. Not necessarily the best looking people, but good dressers in London, dress really well.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 5:21 PM
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I believe you, but Skansen's all tourists.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 5:22 PM
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54: Last time I visited, London seemed a melange of chav scum, Barbour-clad Hooray Henries and people in suits that didn't look Boateng-fresh or Anderson & Sheppard-worn, but perhaps I was looking in the wrong places.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 5:24 PM
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55. The majority at Skansen seemed to be Swedish tourists.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 5:29 PM
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And, I'd say that on average the tourists in Stockholm were not as large as the tourists here in DC.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 5:32 PM
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I was joking about the employee costumes.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 5:40 PM
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Which is to say that the Skansen part of the comment was to be separated from the larger people in Stockholm part of the comment, except I forgot to make that distinction.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 5:42 PM
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46:

His picks I blame on the industry, for whose existence, then therefore, we mere mortal consumers are culpable.

In short: sorry for the skinny chicks. Totally my fault. But also yours.

I quote that for context. I'm not sure what's going on there: defensiveness about the fashion industry? about finding skinny women (some say "chicks" or "girls") attractive?

Huh.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 5:42 PM
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I actually doubt that most guys look at super-skinny women and literally feel sexually attracted to them, but we all look at super-skinny women and think "How fashionable!" They look, quite literally, sharp, in everything they wear. I see super-skinnies on the train and immediately think, "Oh, she's a model on her day off," while I don't think that about the women I see on the train and think "Holy shit, she's hot."


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 5:52 PM
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If there had been Swedes on the veldt in the Pleistocene, they would have been very popular.

Little known fact: There sometimes were Swedes on the veldt. Veldt-people considered them very attractive mates, because veldt-people who mated with Swedes got to go back to Sweden and get universal healthcare (a commodity distinctly lacking in the veldt). So, you see, it's now in everyone's genes to want to sex the Swedes.


Posted by: Epoch | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 5:53 PM
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There sometimes were Swedes on the veldt

Who can forget ABBA's breakthrough hit, "Svelte on the Veldt"?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 5:56 PM
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The fact of Sweden somehow makes me happy. I couldn't swear why, though.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 5:56 PM
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62 contains probably two too many "literally"s, but I did mean them.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 5:56 PM
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I'm not sure what's going on there: defensiveness about the fashion industry? about finding skinny women (some say "chicks" or "girls") attractive?

Huh.

Haven't you been around here for awhile, off and on? More heated talking past each other than any other topic area, with some consequent departures. Not that subject exactly, but a squeamishness about even approaching it for fear of starting something.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 5:57 PM
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ABBA pickled herring is unrelated to the musical group. Fact.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 5:57 PM
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IDP is right. I take back 62 altogether for fear of starting an actual discussion about it.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 5:59 PM
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I actually doubt that most guys look at super-skinny women and literally feel sexually attracted to them, but we all look at super-skinny women and think "How fashionable!" They look, quite literally, sharp, in everything they wear.

Here's an allegory about those women, using the metaphor of condominiums.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 6:18 PM
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Well, I reassert 62 then. It's a true fact.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 6:19 PM
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67, 69,

I've been around here off and on, ayup.

Hey, IDP, I appreciate your voicing that in 67.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 6:19 PM
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But I *like* fat chicks!

But *I* like fat chicks!

But I like *fat* chicks!

I just can't seem to get it right. I blame the something something.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 6:39 PM
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But I like fat *chicks*! Why do all these bears keep sucking my cock?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 6:44 PM
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And why can't I get the bear, my chicks and my cock across the river carrying only two animals at a time? Would it help if I got my ass involved?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 6:49 PM
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Heh. And I like guys with paunches and sunken chests.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:00 PM
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76: geez talk about an unattainable standard for the rest of us.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:01 PM
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Just up your beer intake, ST. You'll get there soon enough.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:03 PM
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Sunken chest is unlikely. I have the chest cavity of a, well, a bear. I certainly have a lot more fatness in me, though.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:05 PM
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Maybe this counts as a sunken chest.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:13 PM
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61: Whoop, missed the boat on a timely response. But I meant that the fact that the Sartorialist takes pictures of skinny women is a product of the industry he's chosen to immerse himself in, so I'd fault him more for choosing the industry than for the individual photos.

The rest of my comment was just me being circular. "But the industry wouldn't use images of skinny women if we weren't buying!" "But that's chicken-egg, the industry should move the market!" etc.


Posted by: Rousseau | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:18 PM
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Did I misspeak? I meant to say: But I *like* guys with paunches! or, fat guys! We hetero types love slightly portly men! We look at pictures of them on the internets!

Seriously, though, Sifu, you linked to a picture of the back of your head once.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:18 PM
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Or this.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:18 PM
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There's pictures of me all over the unfoggedernet.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:19 PM
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I ain't no dang consumptive like ogged, that's for sure.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:19 PM
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Parsimon's dream date.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:21 PM
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Dude, I still have a gut. It seems to be unlosable.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:26 PM
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Dude, I still have a gut. It seems to be unlosable.

Less mayo and more weightlifting, twig boy.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:31 PM
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I've never been close to losing my gut. I lost 55 pounds in a year, once: still had a gut.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:32 PM
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Less mayo and more weightlifting, twig boy.

I fear you're right.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:37 PM
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I still have a bit of a belly too. I was complaining to my mom about it recently; I can't get rid of it, what's up with that?

She thought the thing to say was, "Suck it up" -- or "in" -- something like that. Cute, mom, but my stomach muscles are already quite strong.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:38 PM
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Preggers.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:39 PM
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Dude, I still have a gut. It seems to be unlosable.

Finally, an explanation for why he keeps posting about a subject about which there is apparently so much squeamishness (#67) that it can only be approached, oh, every other week or so: Ogged is working through his body image issues.

I blame his mother.


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:42 PM
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I'm trying to help you morbidly obese Americans work through your body image issues. I blame Mother Teresa.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:43 PM
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That sizeist bitch.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:45 PM
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92: What?

93: Of course.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:45 PM
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95 to 93 and 94. I really can't choose.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:50 PM
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Ogged you want to arrange a trade? 10 pounds of Honkymass for the right to call people "honky" unironically?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:51 PM
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w-lfs-n assures me that I'm white.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:55 PM
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I'm tired of all these Inkys, Iranians going around acting all white, calling each other Honky and shit. Where do they think they earned the right to do that?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:56 PM
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I suppose he'd know.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:56 PM
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If you drink enough beer, your belly will get big enough to make your chest look sunken in comparison.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:57 PM
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My original joke was "for the right to say 'towelhead' in the shower", but I thought it insensitive. Fucking PC Nazis in my head.

"for the right to call people 'esé' without being tacky", perhaps?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:57 PM
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Isn't it comparatively hard to lose fat through swimming?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:57 PM
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There's no accent mark on "ese."


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 7:59 PM
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See? Tacky.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:01 PM
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Isn't it comparatively hard to lose fat through swimming?

That's why I ellipticize too.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:01 PM
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Just take back the "Preggers" remark, will ya? For one thing, my little belly isn't nearly like that. This is utterly confusing me.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:01 PM
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Preggers preggers preggers.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:05 PM
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I have to say that the elliptical doesn't seem to do crap for me. I really need to lose some weight.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:10 PM
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No one's got anything to say about the _latex_leggings_ on the young woman at the top of the page now? Sure, she's skinny and probably a model. But I'm more flabbergasted that latex is something you can wear on the street in Stockholm.


Posted by: ed bowlinger | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:10 PM
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If you're her you can.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:14 PM
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Sifu: esé

Teo: There's no accent mark on "ese."

I agree, sort of. I've never seen the slangly "ese" with an accent. But the word "ése" does exist. The difference between "ese" and "ése" is somewhat lost one me. I think with an accent it refers to an antecedent. Some "that" that we were already talking about.

Regardless, #1 over here is wrong-wrong-wrong. Someone'll rig up some bots to fix this, right?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:20 PM
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slangly


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:21 PM
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Yeah, there is a word "ése," orthographically distinct from another word "ese" (though they are pronounced the same), but the accent is never on the second syllable.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:26 PM
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the accent is never on the second syllable.

Standup comedians lie!


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:28 PM
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Right, so: bots. Go, internets, go!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:28 PM
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Er, 117 to 115 whatever


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:29 PM
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Standup comedians lie!

You better not be getting your information about Spanish pronunciation from Carlos Mencia.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:30 PM
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Comity on 119.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:30 PM
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The Sartorialist photographs a much greater range of male body types, and male clothing, than of female. There've been some positively stocky dudes, and sometimes they really are wearing just ordinary clothes well put together.

The women do tend to be samey, but I forgive him because sometimes they're stunning.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:31 PM
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I find the Sartorialist kind of a bummer, in that it often seems like it would be useful for clothing inspiration if I were a guy, but isn't for me as a woman.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:32 PM
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Heh. And I like guys with paunches and sunken chests.

Ooh! Pick me!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:34 PM
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Of course it's useful for women. You just need to get up and decide to be a willowy blonde, and suddenly your wardrobe drops into place.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:34 PM
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That's what I've been doing wrong!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:37 PM
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The actual clothes on the women are a problem too, often.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:43 PM
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I think the trick, following 124, is to wake up with a different wardrobe, too.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:45 PM
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123:

a. Why does it seem that people don't quite get that I was being sarcastic, rather acidly so? Or perhaps they do, and have already moved so far beyond me and my puerile sarcasm that ... uh.

b. Ben, I think I barely picked you out in the UnfoggedDcon photos.

c. What LB says in 124 is brilliant.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:45 PM
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128a: Whatever makes you think people didn't get it?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:47 PM
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Actually most of the women on that site are willowy brunettes.

I don't see any stocky guys, they're all skinny too. Except some of the elderly men in 3-piece suits. But that site is too boring for me to give it a thorough inspection anyway.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:48 PM
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That site is too boring for me to look at it at all.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:48 PM
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I have no thing for Swedes

And yet he would sing to her constantly, "Wooooooahh, oh, oh, oh, Swede child of mine." Which was awkward for everyone.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 8:54 PM
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Well, Farhad likes a fair haired girl, much as he might try to deny it.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 9:27 PM
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There is nothing, absolutely nothing, wrong with willowy brunettes.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 9:32 PM
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134: Why thank you, ben. I'm blushing!


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 10:05 PM
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No way are you willowy, Mai Tai.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 10:17 PM
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I find the Sartorialist useful. His photos actually show what people are wearing, unlike those in most fashion magasines, and his subjects are trying to be very current while just going about their business: again, most fashion magasines feel no need to make concessions to, say, commuting, or leering bystanders, or bicycle spokes.

I also like the geographic categories. I've already figured out how French fashion works (or not) on me, so I'm interested to see what the nanas in Paris are wearing these days. Italian women are working a very different aesthetic than I prefer, but I kind of dig looking at the overblown male Italian styles. The photos of NYC style remind me that however I'd like to dress, I've got to deal with people in this area (most of whom seem to have an irrational fixation on Marc Jacobs and his hip little girl style).

He's a professional fashion editor, not a documentarian: we probably shouldn't expect him to validate our own bodies or clothing choices.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 10:41 PM
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137.1 I find eerily reminiscent of Vice's "Dos"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 10:53 PM
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I always find the people he photographs ridiculously attractive, especially the men, while I would think nothing of a model paid to wear the same clothes.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 10:53 PM
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I find the Sartorialist useful. His photos actually show what people are wearing, unlike those in most fashion magasines, and his subjects are trying to be very current while just going about their business

This is what struck me as not particularly true. Most of the pictures I scanned seemed to be (from comments) of not what people actually wear, but of a few thin people wearing very trendy, high-end clothing and a surprising amount of makeup. The picture with the girl wearing her dad's shirt as a skirt was pretty interesting.

It's not that I need my own body validated as much as it is that if the subject is pictures of what people actually wear, I'd like to see a little more variety. If he just wants to find couturish clothing in the wild, that's fine, but to me, a bit dull.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 10:57 PM
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I'll concede that these people are probably not en route to non-fashiony jobs. But couture prêt-à-porter in-the-wild photos are really not so common as all that.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 11:11 PM
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The Sartorialist only take pictures outside Berns were Stockholm Fashion Shows was held and the people there was models or fashion editors.


Posted by: Anders | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 11:35 PM
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Holy shit, a real Swede! Hello Anders. Thanks for the information.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 11:38 PM
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Anders is actually the second real Swede to comment in this thread.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 11:39 PM
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Weman doesn't have that authentic "man in the street" feel.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 11:45 PM
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(Ogged, on his ill-advised quest to find the "authentic", just means that Weman's English is better.)


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 11:47 PM
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That's not "just" what I mean, disparaging Ben. He's also named David, and not Anders.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 11:49 PM
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Ah, right, how silly of me; my apologies.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 11:52 PM
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If there's one place to which I would have thought exoticizing orientalist fantasies wouldn't apply, it's Sweden.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 11:53 PM
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How come? Sweden meets the most important criterion: Everyone over there looks the same to me.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 11:57 PM
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My eyes have been opened.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-21-07 11:59 PM
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Septentrionalism.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 12:14 AM
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re: 56

Glasgow is more like that, in my experience. Although there are good dressers there too. If you like 'indie kid' fashion, it's cool, but if you're looking for more 'high concept' street fashion, definitely London.

Not that I can talk, I am not remotely fashionable, and not in a conscious way, either.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 12:34 AM
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Cool! A word I never even heard of.

...[I]n step with Orientalism the West was busy elaborating another discourse that we might call Septentrionalism: a discourse of the West about the North embracing such exotics as Siberian shamans, Odinic berserkers, and Celtic bards (the latter notoriously including Ossian, who barely exists outside of Septentrionalism's textual universe).

Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 12:37 AM
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I have a photograph of an excellent pseudo-trotskyist cafe in Stockholm where I bought a pornographic detective story and David Weman tried to chat up the waitress. Was this the lost historic Stockholm unfogged meetup?

in re fatness: over the last (ulp) thirty years, I have watched the tide move steadily East and North, overwhelming me on the way. Gothenburg was full of slim people in 1977; now it is much fuller, becasue everyone is so much larger. Stockholm has also inflated, if not quite so much. In Karelia, people are actually getting thinner. The Finns all used to have torsos shaped like lightbulbs, with a lot of storage space low down for all that beer. Now they are healthier.


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 5:10 AM
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Septentrionalism at great length, citing Homi Bhaba.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 6:22 AM
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156 is rather disappointing; the "South" is London. However, it does explains ttaM, the exotic Northerner.

I once met a very-middle-class very-English guy who explained that the Danelaw still had not caught up with the real England, and probably never would. He also said of the Irish, "They've been successful everywhere in the world except their homeland". (This was 15-20 years ago; definitely no longer true.) He said nothing about the Scots or the Welsh, but I doubt that it would have been good.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 6:29 AM
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re: 157

Yeah, of course the guy was clearly an idiot. Since every single innovation in British history, bar almost none, has come from north of the Danelaw and in many important respects it's the southern bit that was backward.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 6:36 AM
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I was about to mock Ogged for reading the Sartorialist, then I remembered that I read it sometimes.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 6:50 AM
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a. Why does it seem that people don't quite get that I was being sarcastic, rather acidly so? Or perhaps they do, and have already moved so far beyond me and my puerile sarcasm that ... uh.

Well, there's also that not so many months ago a couple of the Women of Unfogged spoke in favor of bellies on men, found to be stimulating, if I remember correctly.

Also, you have a "mature" vibe and expressing much variance from a narrow band of age-appropriateness in sexual attraction, even speculatively , never goes unremarked here unless you're an established character in that regard. So it can be presumed you're talking about mature men, Carters back to Roosevelts.

That's where another supposition kicks in: a mature man without a belly or sunken chest, with a slim waste or, God forbid, visibly-articulated abdominals, operates against an all-but-conclusive presumption he is either vain and narcissistic, or ghey, or both.

So, not only would it be completely possible to read that comment straight, here, but I'm a little surprised at your claim that you were entirely kidding.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 8:06 AM
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waste s/b waist


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 8:07 AM
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That's where another supposition kicks in: a mature man without a belly or sunken chest, with a slim waste or, God forbid, visibly-articulated abdominals, operates against an all-but-conclusive presumption he is either vain and narcissistic, or ghey, or both.

Shorter IDP: Don't hate me because I'm beautiful.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 8:08 AM
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Here is a slightly more alt. view on Scandinavian street style.


Posted by: raster | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 9:35 AM
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160:

Good lord, IDP, a straight answer! Well, thank you.

Also, you have a "mature" vibe and expressing much variance from a narrow band of age-appropriateness in sexual attraction, even speculatively , never goes unremarked here unless you're an established character in that regard.

I'm not sure what "mature" is code for here, though it seems somehow reminiscent of, say, "full-figured" to describe some women.

I'm tickled. A mature vibe, huh?

I will say that men of any type (mature or not) who have slim waists or hips and so on and so forth really shouldn't worry about people thinking they're vain. It's alright. We love you anyway.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 11:06 AM
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i actually like that the sartorialist focuses on non-models who are nonetheless attractive by those standards and often working in the fashion industry. they're the ones who are more likely to take things that seem at first utterly ridiculous (bubble silhouettes, high-waisted jeans) and play around with them until something works for regular, off-runway life. if i wanted to see what normal people wore, i'd look out my window.


Posted by: lynne | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 11:07 AM
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I said a narrow band. Mature is code for "Mature."

The first time I ever heard "full-figured," it was out of the mouth of Jane Russell selling bras on tv. Positive associations here.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 11:16 AM
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I said a narrow band. Mature is code for "Mature."

That doesn't really help.

Those narrow band of age-appropriateness people are booooring.

"Full-figured" is usually rendered "full-figured gals."


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 11:28 AM
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Full-figured gals, you make the rockin' world go 'round.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 11:30 AM
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Russell actually said "full-figured gals" in that ad. Maybe the origin?


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 11:41 AM
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No doubt the origin.

I seem to remember that the Jane Russell ads were considered ground-breaking. Cross-your-heart bras, wasn't it? And television ads openly acknowledging that women wear bras, and that support could be an issue, were theretofore unheard of.

I took it that the "gals" language was meant to mitigate any threat men might feel from the airing of these ads: it lends the sense that this might as well be your mother, talking with the gals. Mature women are generally desexualized, unthreatening.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 11:52 AM
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A woman iconic for breast projection, and as a sexpot. Anybody know if Macao is any good?
Russell could sell sex knowledge and experience, and make it believable.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 12:07 PM
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I refrained in the early inning, since people were being all squirrelly, but I think that most heterosexual men are most attracted to women more full-bodied than the fashion industry designs for. The exceptions would be fashionistas and certain kinds of preppy social climbers, and a lot of them are mostly interested in how their girlfriend looks when the two of them walk into the room.

This doesn't mean that we're not sexist or that we're not stereotyping women. We just have a different stereotype than the fashion industry. Someone like Sophia Loren. Even if Sophia was 10 lbs or so over her ideal, most guys would still like her best.

They say that gay designers and the camera are what require skinny models, but people also tell me that women dress mostly for other women, not for guys. except tramps, I mean.

Trivia: Jane Russell (real name: Jane Russell) was born about a year before Frances Gumm (real name: Judy Garland) and 50 miles away.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 12:25 PM
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62: i think its that skinny people look neater. its less sloppy. i mean boobs are really awesome but sometimes i look at them and they just sort of are hanging. fat look sloppy. and for women it matters because anything one wears displays the body to a much greater degree than men's fashion.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 3:57 PM
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oh oops i read farther and i probably retract that so there are no fights.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 3:59 PM
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Good lord, yoyo, how long have you been reading Unfogged, and you had to read farther in this thread to realize that 173 might be contentious?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 4:00 PM
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my natural instict is to be honest and say whats on my mind. disagreeing with people doesn't set off any alarms for me.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 4:15 PM
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Neither does being a jackass, apparently.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-22-07 4:18 PM
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