Re: I Had Blocked It Out So Well

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Yoffe, not Lithwick, right?


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 1:02 PM
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Yoffe's daughter is obviously being oppressed. In later life she will take her revenge.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 1:05 PM
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Indeed. Lithwick's kid is only a couple years old.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 1:05 PM
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Man, I can't wait until Sally's old enough to be sent off shopping on her own with a clothing allowance. I hate buying clothes.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 1:06 PM
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I always hated school shopping. Awkward child, goofy hair, low budget and trailed by cranky little sisters. The only thing worse was bra shopping.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 1:12 PM
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Back-to-school shopping was never particularly traumatic for me, I was always just bored as hell.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 1:15 PM
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5: I have to go buy Keegan a bunch of new clothes tonight, as everything that fit six months ago is now too small. I guess this is a universal experience with parents at some point, but this weekend I looked at him and it suddenly struck me that while I wasn't paying attention this summer, somebody apparently took my little boy and left an adolescent in his place. Thankfully, bra shopping is still a ways off.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 1:19 PM
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The only thing worse was bra shopping.

I had the displeasure of being in line at Target behind an professional acquaintance who was buying herself a bunch of bras and underwear. I really didn't want that much information about her underwear.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 1:20 PM
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I really didn't want that much information about her underwear.

Will: objectively less creepy than me.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 1:21 PM
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9: Most people are.

And gosh, Keegan looks a lot older than the previous picture I saw, which I think was only last Halloween.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 1:33 PM
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Keegan does look like a teenager, rather then a little boy, these days.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 1:36 PM
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Cheekbones!


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 1:37 PM
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Oy, he's even got a teenager look on his face. The hair, however, is still great.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 1:37 PM
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His face is starting to look all grown up.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 1:37 PM
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I always hated it with a passion. For some reason the parents seemed to think I'd freeze to death unless everything was made of itchy scratchy wool of double thickness. That lasted until I was old enough to be more trouble to coerce than was worth it to them. Ghastly memories!


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 1:39 PM
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I don't think that you should buy Keegan's bras for him at all. Wait till he decides by himself that he wants to crossdress. Some boys don't you know. (They're called "heteronormative", the poor dears.)


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 1:52 PM
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I don't think that you should buy Keegan's bras for him at all.

I'm hoping his mother will step up to the plate on that one.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 1:53 PM
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What are the conflicts Becks is hinting at in the post, just more emotional versions of the ones in the article?


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 1:57 PM
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Wow, I'm glad that was Yoffe not Lithwick ... I was feeling really old. "Didn't she just have that baby?"


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 2:01 PM
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I hated shopping for clothes so my very tolerant mother would let me wander off around the store/mall on my own. Then I hit puberty and all of a sudden I loved to shop. Funny, huh.

When I was small we did our school shopping at this huge, super-cheap outlet place that I loathed with a passion. I would generally try to come up with some way to insult the people who worked there. I was a pretty awful little brat at times.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 2:01 PM
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My daughter's only requirement for clothes is no tags. If there is a tag, or a stray string providing evidence that a tag was once there, she freaks until I can remove the tag.

Fortunately, she doesnt demand slutty clothes in order to fit in with the other kids. Of course, she makes up for that by sticking her hand down her pants on a regular basis or starting to drop trou prior to fully entering the bathroom.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 2:15 PM
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My daughter's only requirement for clothes is no tags. If there is a tag, or a stray string providing evidence that a tag was once there, she freaks until I can remove the tag.

I was like this too. In fact, I still remove any tag I notice. Maybe at some point in my life the assumption that all my clothes (except the really dressy ones which I never wear( should be washed identically will be inaccurate.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 2:30 PM
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In fact, I still remove any tag I notice.

People must give you funny looks when you approach them with scissors.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 2:35 PM
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God, the pictures that go along with that article are creepy. Whoever thought of photographing them in front of that wall is brilliant.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 2:35 PM
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Probably because it reminds me of something I would see on Blue States Lose, and I do not want preteen girls and salacious hipsters in the same mental category. Ick.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 2:38 PM
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I had very traumatic experiences of shopping with mom as a kid. Oof. I still hate shopping with her, though I can manage her somewhat now. I don't like anything she points out, mostly because they're all in vile colors that make me look sick or infantile, and whenever I like something, she reminds me of this one time when I was seven and I said I'd never wear (whatever it was I just said I liked). Plus, the constant shit about what is thinning and not and what makes me attractive to boys and not. My only job in life is to pretend I'm smaller than I am, which will automatically put me in the running for a husband I don't want!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 2:41 PM
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I did not realize one could purchase baby kibble in 50lb bags until I looked in the background of apo's picture.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 2:45 PM
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And yes, apo, Keegan is a ridiculously handsome young dude.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 2:49 PM
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and yes, apo, Keegan is a ridiculously handsome young dude.

In spite of the ridiculous shirt he is wearing.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 2:52 PM
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I had the rare priviledge of raising two teenage daughters by myself as a single dad and would admit that clothes shopping was among the harder tasks to accomplish (but not the hardest). My girls were not the most showy or revealing of their peers although teenage taste do tend to push boundaries more than i would want. Nevertheless, they are grown now, college graduates (with honors), high achievers in their respective professions, and one is married with children of her won. All things considered, I consider myself very fortunate not to have to play with Barbies anymore or take them clothes shopping.


Posted by: swampcracker | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 2:53 PM
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That is great Swampcracker. You should be proud.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 2:56 PM
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What are the conflicts Becks is hinting at in the post, just more emotional versions of the ones in the article?

It probably varies by family, but the basic one in mine was that money always seemed to be tight. (Solution to money being tight: kids grow up and move out, apparently.) And with three or four kids (depending), that meant that school shopping was a lot of 'looks like hell wears like iron' types of clothes, and a lot of 'you have to think of what you'll wear with that', which meant a lot of boring clothing. I'm still not good with fashion as a result because my mom's voice is always recommending the black or the brown in the back of my head because what will I wear that with otherwise? (Solution: buy the red cowboy boots secondhand and wear them with everything.)

So, lots of years of being unstylish. Many worse fates to be sure, but that combined with cranky little sisters made school shopping a pain in the ass.

Oh, and shoes from K-mart. Cheap pieces of shit. Go as shabby as you want, ye who wish to be down with the gente, but do not skimp on the footwear.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 2:57 PM
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I think my mum and I only argued once, over a purple crushed velvet dress I was desperate for, but she (oh god, so rightly in hindsight) wouldn't buy for me. But once I hit 13, she gave me my Family Allowance (now Child Benefit - non-means-tested money everyone gets per child) and I bought my own clothes from then on.

She has terrible taste in clothes, and occasionally still buys me things (or more usually, gives me things she bought for someone else and forgot to give to them). Once she gave me a pair of pyjamas for my birthday, telling me she'd bought my grandmother the same pair - what a fucking recommendation.

As for my daughters - they're 9 and nearly 11. Have had to start the bra-buying with the eldest - so far we're only up to crop tops, but it's slightly doing my head in. She's got no (well, hardly any) wish to appear grown-up, but she's tall and shapely and kind of does already. She likes to wear mostly pink.

The 9 year old is a little indie kid - favourite clothes are band T-shirts - so I don't anticipate too much trouble with her clothing-wise in her teen years. We've had a big music festival here this weekend, which we can hear from our house, and she was prancing about on Friday night in black nail varnish, a The Killers T-shirt and a skull and crossbones bandanna saying she wished she were there.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 2:57 PM
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We never had any money, but that was the cool thing about going to high school in the early 90's. My mom always wanted to buy cheap mall clothes, and I could argue that my Goodwill duds were much cheaper. But then I'd come home every day to find my favorite (25-cent!) shirt in the trash can.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:01 PM
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What are the conflicts Becks is hinting at in the post, just more emotional versions of the ones in the article?

The one I'm most familiar with involves Mom thinking she has great taste, Daughter thinking she has great taste, neither sharing the other's taste and both refusing to accept that it's okay to have different tastes. Of course, remembering this from the daughter perspective, I think the important lesson is to let kids find their own style even if you think they look ridiculous in what they choose. I'm doing okay with this philosophy as the mom, so far, but only because my daughter indisputably has better taste than I.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:05 PM
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My daughter's only requirement for clothes is no tags.

I was like this until about twenty-two or so, at which time I started doing serious flea market and thrift store shopping and started thinking stupid things like "oh, I'll be able to resell this at an upscale vintage store when I get tired of it"---which has pretty much never been true. By the time I'm ready to get rid of clothes, I either foist them on my friends or THROW THEM OUT.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:05 PM
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Speaking of parents having a veto, my mother did not exercise said veto when I picked out purple and gold jams (9th grade) or a silk shirt adorned with dark purple paisley (10th grade). What was she thinking?


Posted by: blortch | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:07 PM
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What has always depressed me about my mom's taste is that she's right that I look good in colors like pastel blue. But I do not want to wear pastel blue! Pastel blue goes against everything I stand for! And I certainly do not want to wear a carefully coordinated outfit (my mother was big on the whole old-skool "buy an entire outfit" model of shopping) of pastel blue!


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:08 PM
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34: It would have been great had my mom been cool with grunge, but that was Just Not Done. We were not spending money to look sloppy, after all.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:09 PM
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Pastel blue goes against everything I stand for!

You're only sixteen. You don't have a rep yet.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:10 PM
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Heh. I had a weird moment in my late twenties when I realized that pink actually worked rather well on me, and had to decide whether I was opposed to it as a matter of principle. I decided that I haven't got that kind of principles.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:10 PM
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It was my mid-twenties for me. Do I want to look that girly? I decided, yes, I did, and I could beat people over the head with my master's degree if they disagreed.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:11 PM
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My parents hated grunge. I had to sneak out of the house with my awesome holey jeans in my backpack and change into them in the car. When we were all grown up they were able to laugh that grunge saved them a lot of money when my sisters and I were teenagers.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:13 PM
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My mother wasn't allowed to wear brown growing up (her father was in the Army and, apparently, hated the color as a result) and that somehow leaked down a generation and I had no brown clothes until about two years ago my wife insisted that I looked good in brown. I tend to gravitate to one color another in phases (my green phase lasted far too long) but I've started to open my mind to the possibility that, in the right context, I can even wear orange occasionally.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:13 PM
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I have one pink t-shirt these days, but I have to wear it with something totally butch for my self-respect.

I only recently threw away my ten year-old combat boots. I'm going to have to find some new snow shoes.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:15 PM
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I'm figuring I'm in for a fairly easy time on the fashion front, as I come from a long line of women with little skill with or interest in fashion, and Sally looks to be going the same way. As long as she looks civilized (which for me covers a wide, wide range), she can wear anything she likes.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:16 PM
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I look good in pink. I can't concentrate when I wear pink. Maybe a pink scarf.

As a fat young thing in a family with almost no money and a family culture of various types of self-mortification, I wore my mother's hand-me-downs and looked genuinely, wouldn't-wish-it-on-my-worst-enemy freakish. Also coke-bottle glasses. We very seldom went clothes-shopping, at least until I started making a little money myself. And oh the parental tears when I wore bought or wore dark colors! (I wish I were kidding; there were parental tears.)

I'm overwhelmingly fussy about clothes and specs now, of course. (Got a new pair of glasses coming--a little bit eighties, a little bit Baader-Meinhof Gang.)


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:19 PM
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a little bit Baader-Meinhof Gang

You're getting explosive glasses?


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:22 PM
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Yes. I plan to take them off, fumble convicingly with them and put them down, then stroll away. No one will ever suspect me. Of course, I'll be caught in the explosion myself after tripping over everything within a fifty foot radius.

You can get them online, if you know who to ask.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:24 PM
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Raising children is just plain hard. Bending them to your will without letting them know you are doing it is so difficult.

Actually, I'm convinced that your children are so much better off if you essentially do not care what they wear, listen to, or how they get their hair cut.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:25 PM
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Yes. I plan to take them off, fumble convicingly with them and put them down, then stroll away.

This is your plan for when your kids get to be tween aged?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:27 PM
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Oh God. Don't even start about hair. My mom and I had screaming fights about my hair from when I was six to when I was twenty. Finally, at 21, I cut my (perversely waist-length wavy thick blond) hair to shoulder-length. I told her on the phone and she put the phone down to go vomit. She vomitted.

Most of my friends were convinced it was some kind of hyper-erotic daughter-fixation thing focused on my hair, and cutting it was actually one of the best things I ever did for our relationship. We're just friends now.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:29 PM
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The funny thing is the so-called `grunge' look came from what (some) blue collar kids were wearing in the area (Washington state, even more so B.C. Canada). It's basically work clothes for the forestry industry etc. (jeans, jean shirts, `mac' jackets, etc.) plus leather jackets. At the time (10 years before grunge) a good third of the kids at school dressed this way, highly correlated with family income.


Posted by: grungy | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:31 PM
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51: The glasses, heebie, the glasses. I shudder to think what state any children of mine would be in by the time they were eleven or so. Probably begging to be cast off, if family history is any indication.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:31 PM
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My mom was pretty good about hair. She gave up trying to brush mine when I was about six and just mocked my kool-aid and Manic Panic phases during high school. She repeats weird little mottos for most life situations, and for hair it was: "well, one nice thing about hair is that it'll always grow back."


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:33 PM
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Calling glasses "a little bit Baader-Meinhof Gang" seems like the sort of thing that William Gibson would do (the current, respectable author of speculative fiction set in the present, rather than the '80s author of disreputable pulp fiction), rather like his description of the protagonist in Pattern Recognition.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:33 PM
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I want to bring back the safety pin as a fashion staple. Safety pin with twenty safety pins hanging from it, frienship safety pins with beads, safety pins through piercings to air one's angst. They're not just for cloth diapers like they were before the first time they hit the fashion set.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:34 PM
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I have to be supportive of my ex-wife when she calls me to tell me that our 11 1/2 son is being sassy with her, right?

Responding with, "Well, I think you are full of crap too" isnt really helpful, I guess.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:36 PM
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56: Well, it's true that my clothes do tend to veer towards being "skirt thing" and "shirt thing"...Pattern Recognition is insightful about the now, yeh, but the disreputable pulp fiction of the eighties was capitalism's dream of itself and as such fascinating.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:36 PM
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57: what about large (commercial trawler) stainless steel fish hooks? I always thought they have a certain flair missing in the safety pin set.


Posted by: grungy | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:36 PM
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57: Consider the paperclips of my desk, how they sit in their magnetic dish; they neither pierce nor catch, but clasp faithfully....


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:37 PM
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I hated shopping for clothes so my very tolerant mother would let me wander off around the store/mall on my own.

I still hate shopping for clothes more than almost anything and hope very much to someday get myself a very tolerant sweetie who will let me wander off around the mall on my own while he makes all the fashion decisions.

I've never understood why parents get so involved in what their kids want to wear (barring extreme cases, of course, e.g. nazi uniforms, clown suits, etc.). Teenagers are going to mostly going to look and feel awkward no matter what. My mother and I fought ceaselessly through my teens over her determination to make me (and the rest of her life) look like a Tommy Hilfiger ad. She hasn't given up, either. Even after a tearful Christmas a few years ago when I made her take a bunch of stuff back, she still tries to slip things in under the radar. Last birthday - new bath towels, nice. Until I see on the tag: Ralph Lauren. Ralph Lauren bathtowels, for fuck's sake.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:37 PM
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I'm convinced that your children are so much better off if you essentially do not care what they wear, listen to, or how they get their hair cut.

I don't care much, but I'm going to fake a certain amount of care so that when they inevitably decide to rebel a bit, it'll take the form of something harmless like wearing clothing they think I don't approve of, getting a navel piercing, etc.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:39 PM
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I told her on the phone and she put the phone down to go vomit. She vomitted.

That's so awesome.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:40 PM
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61: And if you stretch your piercings you're not even limited to safety pins and paper clips. Why, the world is your oyster! Pens, AA batteries, the caps of glue bottles...it's pretty amazing.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:40 PM
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My mother always wanted me to dress about 20-30 years older than I actually was. I swear I owned clothes in junior high that I don't even think would be age-appropriate for me now. Maybe in 10 years.

Also, her definition of what was appropriate is hilarious compared to the Salon article. The big fad when I was in junior high was Umbros and a t-shirt or sweatshirt (much like this). My mom vetoed it as too slutty. I remember her telling me I'd get raped at the bus stop if I left the house in that.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:41 PM
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My mother was always lovely about my clothing. Her only gripe was "You should really consider wearing more daring things sometimes -- after all, you're young, it's the perfect time for it." She always seems genuinely delighted when things look good on me, and she has good taste too. It's sort of sickening, really.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:42 PM
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I plan to torment my eventual children with Scandinavian black metal and stories of the good old days of bands that sincerely worshipped Satan, burned ancient churches and murdered one another. "Why don't you burn an upside-down cross into your forehead?" I'll say. "That would be highly metal. Would you like to get a Yggdrasil tattoo just like your old man for your birthday?"

With any luck, their rebellion will take the form of joing the 4H Club.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:44 PM
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63: for the record, this sometimes really really doesn't work.


Posted by: grungy | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:45 PM
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My mom was pretty easy-going, but she was much thinner than me, (still is), and more flat-chested, and I was very embarrassed to change in front of her. So I'd get very grumpy and bratty.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:47 PM
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Actually, I'm convinced that your children are so much better off if you essentially do not care what they wear, listen to, or how they get their hair cut.

Mostly I don't care. But I really really don't want my kids to grow up looking like the ultra-mainstream fashion victims that live here. So far they don't look like they're heading that way, but it's a worry. The rest - I really don't care.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:49 PM
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telling me I'd get raped at the bus stop if I left the house in that.

As much as I want to believe I'd be a cool, level-headed parent, reading this forces me to admit I'd probably be a real pain in the ass as a father of girls. Should I ever be one, let us hope they have some mitigating influence in their lives. Hats off, Swampcracker.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:50 PM
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Re: dressing rooms, my mother is less thin than me and also I have no shame. And then was happy to send me off shopping with my friends and an allowance when the time came, so it was all "let me show you what I got!" And yet I found many other opportunities to be grumpy and bratty, oh yes.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:51 PM
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Heebie is flaunting her assets.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:51 PM
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62: My parents actually encouraged me, I should note, to wear as much black as possible as a teenager. Neither did they object to Appetite for Destruction. These, I was later told, were supposed to butch me up. Let the guffawing commence. My shopping habits are still pretty sparse. Are these pants? Is this shirt burgundy or black or - hot damn - black and burgundy? Do they have three more just like it? Rah, bless him, is an incredibly patient man. On more than one occasion he has reacted to a shirt I like by saying, "It's very nice, but you do have a couple that look a lot like it..." in a very firm but gentle way. He has actually managed to introduce some other colors into my wardrobe. He is much better at fashion than I am. (He can also get away with a wider variety than I can. He has some shirts that would look ridiculous on me but they look like they were made with him in mind once he puts them on.)

On the gift front, though, man. I don't know if I could take back Ralph Lauren bath towels. I bet they're nice towels, and I find the status of "gift" pretty efficiently obliterates any anti-fashion-whore guilt I might feel otherwise.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:51 PM
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63: for the record, this sometimes really really doesn't work.

You can't be so strict as to make them totally fly of the handle, it must be done in moderation. And of course there's the occasional kid that's just nuts. But when parents are genuinely "anything goes" about stuff, look out. Growing up I knew a couple people with parents like that, and when they decided to fuck with their parents it was game on.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:52 PM
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Heebie is flaunting her assets.

Flouting, John. The word is flout.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:53 PM
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66.---Wierd. I ended up choosing to dress about twenty years older than would have been (or would still be) age-appropriate. I thought I was doing a sort of Annie Hall look, but looking back on it, the look was more frumpy (not sexy!) librarian.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:55 PM
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Also, my mother's favorite thing to say when we were out shopping when I'd put on something I liked and she didn't and ask her opinion: "It's fine. But I wouldn't say it's anything special."

That phrase is burned into my brain. I still hear it whenever I try something on and look in the mirror.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 3:58 PM
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76: Oh, I agree `anything goes' isn't an answer. I just meant that a parental belief that they can channel or control an `inevitable need to rebel' into harmless forms can get themselves into deep trouble. Particularly if it results in blindness to real issues, and/or attempts to convert those into fights about the chosen harmless channels. I don't really want to talk about what you are trying to force me to deal with, so lets have a nice fight about your haircut; that sort of thing.


Posted by: grungy | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 4:01 PM
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Baby baby, flout that thing.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 4:02 PM
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82

I've had the same haircut since age 4. I have quite similar glasses right now to those I had at age 6. I'm still at the stage in my life where I don't buy many clothes for myself other than T-shirts and occasionally pants and shorts, because clothes are the only thing my mom can think of to give me, so she constantly does so.

My parents actually encouraged me, I should note, to wear as much black as possible as a teenager. Neither did they object to Appetite for Destruction. These, I was later told, were supposed to butch me up.

Ha ha, wearing as much black as possible is now a distinct sign of faggotry among teenagers. The magic word, EMO.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 4:13 PM
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My parents were pretty encouraging of black clothes (they're slimming, after all), and my mother bought me a 45 of Eve of Destruction because I was into that kind of thing. I wish someone had encouraged me to wear less horrific glasses when I was a kid though.

If I had kids I would dress them exclusively Dickies/Carhartts so that they would not ruin anything fancy when they were out in the backyard, digging a hole.


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 4:26 PM
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58: This, I think, is actually a tough call. If he's being "sassy" because she's not treating him respectfully, just backing her up doesn't really help. He needs to learn to be respectful, but also to expect respect.

Of course, an ex-spouse is probably ill-positioned to objectively assess the dynamic.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 4:43 PM
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Breaking: Homosexuals keep sucking Idaho Sen. Craig's Republican cock.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 5:22 PM
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No, another one? Oh, the poor man.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 5:25 PM
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Yep, another one.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 5:26 PM
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I would like to report that I am wearing new boyshort-style underpants from Victoria's Secret and am finding them super.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 5:59 PM
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Oh, the poor man nothing.

In recent years, Craig's voting record has earned him top ratings from social conservative groups such as the American Family Association, Concerned Women for America and the Family Research Council. He has supported a federal constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage, telling his colleagues that it was "important for us to stand up now and protect traditional marriage, which is under attack by a few unelected judges and litigious activists."

In 1996, Craig also voted in favor of the Defense of Marriage Act, which denies federal recognition to same-sex marriages and prevents states from being forced to recognize the marriages of gay and lesbian couples legally performed in other states.

Craig has also opposed expanding the federal hate crimes law to cover offenses motivated by anti-gay bias and, in 1996, voted against a bill that would have outlawed employment discrimination based on sexual orientation, which failed by a single vote in the Senate.

He deserves every ounce of ignominy coming his way.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 6:00 PM
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Back to shopping.

One of the advantages of my narcissistic mother is that she transferred a lot of her narcissism to me, so clothes shopping with her was pretty cool--she could usually be talked into buying at least one thing that was too expensive (but nice), and since neither I nor my school dress code allowed for slutty, there really wasn't a lot of conflirt over that. It also helped that I have a better eye than she does, so as long as I encouraged her to buy something nice for herself (really, mom, that color looks great on you!) it was usually girls together.

Of course my sister had kind of the opposite experience, because mom's narcissism embraced me but rejected her.

Today I made PK promise that the next time I get some stupid-ass whim to go to the mall for some shit we don't really need (i.e., whenever I get a whim to go to the mall, period), he will yell NO as loudly as he can.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 6:04 PM
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88: Boyshorts are awesome. VS tends to shrink, though; next time get Felina, which is almost as cheap.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 6:07 PM
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Back to the Republican closet case, I gotta say, I've always found the Minneapolis airport kinda erotic, so I can't entirely blame him as to location.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 6:09 PM
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Will do, boss. I was tempted away by the promise of exciting colors.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 6:10 PM
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Yeah, me too. That's how I found out about the shrinkage thing.

Or maybe I've just gotten fat.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 6:11 PM
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89: You know, the arrest really does sound like bullshit. I'll believe that the cop could tell he was cruising, but nothing he did sounds like lewd conduct to me.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 6:14 PM
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Maybe the peeking through the crack in the door, but yeah, agreed. Although flashing your senate id in the men's room is a li'l tacky.

This, however, is worth the price of admission, imho.

Craig stated "that he has a wide stance when going to the bathroom."

Gotta leave room for those big ol' swinging balls.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 6:23 PM
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Is it wrong for me to hope he's the president of the Idaho chapter of the Coalition for Moral Order?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 6:26 PM
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Wasn't Larry outed like two years ago, and nobody paid any attention to it? (rfts tipped me off to where the discussion was happening. I was worried! Right-wing Mormon Senator arrested for cruising in a men's room in Minnesota? The only way this could be more in the sweet spot if it was a men's room at a swimming pool. While listening to incomprehensible music w-lfs-n likes.)


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 6:32 PM
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No.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 6:32 PM
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99 to 97.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 6:33 PM
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You know, the arrest really does sound like bullshit.

Which makes it all the more fitting that a homophobic dick like Craig should get caught by enforcement policies designed to harrass gay men.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 6:56 PM
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Although flashing your senate id in the men's room is a li'l tacky.

That happened during the interview back at the police station.

Wasn't Larry outed like two years ago, and nobody paid any attention to it?

Last fall, but yeah. Made a brief stir and disappeared, since it was just anecdotal evidence.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 7:12 PM
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Airport restrooms have become so popular that men looking for anonymous sexual trysts with other men have advertised their airport availability on Craigslist.

Sen. Craig's picture is in the story above the citation (different topic). Heh.

Craigslist. Heh.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 7:17 PM
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You know, the arrest really does sound like bullshit.

Yes, it does.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 7:37 PM
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101 gets it right. The injustice is more in the "feature" column. Craig wasn't in that restroom to shit, and if he got scared and pleaded to a charge he could have beaten, it couldn't hardly happen to a nicer guy.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 7:41 PM
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Boyshorts are awesome

Did I miss the poll? Mark me down as prefering boyshorts for women over thongs for women.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 7:55 PM
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Mr. Craig is up for re-election this year. Gov. Butch Otter (R) would appoint a replacement if, for some reason, Craig steps down.

Butch Otter. Heh.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 7:58 PM
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106 gets it right. Also, I had never heard the word "boyshorts" before.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:02 PM
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Butch's wife is named Fem. Homosexuals do not suck her cock.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:03 PM
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108:

There has to be a better name than "boyshorts" for women's underwear.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:05 PM
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She kept her own name, though. The Beavers are a proud family.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:05 PM
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Butch Otter has been rumored to be considering World Anti-Doping Agency kingpin Dick Pound to serve out the rest of Craig's term.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:08 PM
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110: I like it, so there.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:09 PM
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How about "girlshorts"?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:10 PM
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They used to call them briefs, until briefs were rejected as being 'granny panties'. Now essentially the same cut around the legs, although admittedly lower on the waist, is a boyshort. Feh. I say they're briefs, and I say they were comfortable even when people didn't think they were sexy.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:13 PM
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Being lower on the waist is a large part of what makes them sexier than the "briefs" of yore. Hence a new designation is required.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:15 PM
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Lowcut briefs? Lowriding briefs? They fit like briefs.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:19 PM
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The angle of the leg cut is also different -- in back, often straight across or even slightly concave, where briefs are convex.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:20 PM
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briefs isnt a good word either.

Maybe someone who specializes in detective work or linguistics could find out why they chose boyshorts over other possible names. Please provide us with the second runner ups.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:21 PM
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And in front, closer to straight, and at a shallower angle, than the scoop leg of the brief.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:22 PM
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You are making snark model so you can evaluate, arent you?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:23 PM
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Wow, I have no idea how to describe the shape of clothes.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:25 PM
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Maybe someone who specializes in detective work or linguistics could find out why they chose boyshorts over other possible names.

I'll be sure to report back, someday.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:25 PM
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I believe will is offering to format and edit your dissertation in exchange for conducting this boyshorts investigation.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:27 PM
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121: Either that or ogling lingerie models online, imagine whichever you prefer.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:27 PM
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It really is a modern American mystery. What were they trying to convey?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:28 PM
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Surely it could not be "like a man's shorts but cute and boyish." That would be too obvious by far.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:29 PM
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I can edit. Format...not so much.

I was in school in the old days. I was in heaven when I finally got a typewriter with word erase.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:31 PM
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I am good with the image: "Cute girl in underwear."

I dont really want the image: "Cute girl, just like a boy!!"


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:32 PM
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"Cute girl, just like a boy!!"

Why is this disturbing? I think it's ancient lore that anything boyish (baseball uniform, boxers, dress shirt) suddenly becomes outrageously sexy with a petite, curvy dame inside of it. The perversity of the clothing heightens the gender differences.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:36 PM
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"Cute girl in man's shirt."
"Cute girl in man's underwear."
Eh. Both are pretty good.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:37 PM
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Cute girl wearing boy stuff, not girl with a penis, WILL. The "straponshorts" are in a different part of the store.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:37 PM
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I see I am multiply pwneded.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:37 PM
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And I do think that "boyshort" panties are cut more like men's briefs than like women's, or at least they used to be. Now the boyshort has more of a tanga back, with buttocks decolletage. Women cannot get by these days without the need for something riding up their asses.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:39 PM
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I'll concede TJ is correct. Girls look pretty darn good in boxers too. What am I saying?!?!! Cute girls look good in anything or nothing.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:39 PM
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That said, I think the riding-up-the-ass thing, when kept under control, is a great improvement over the saggy-back thing regular old panties used to do.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:40 PM
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Women cannot get by these days without the need for something riding up their asses.

Providing lift and some curvature. Flat, smashed booties are not cute.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:40 PM
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AWB:

How did the date go? I think I missed the recap.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:43 PM
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136 is true. I own some sad, saggy panties, leading to my recent boyshort extravaganza. The American Apparel ones were the cutest so far, which is a great pity, because they ride up too hellaciously to bear.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:43 PM
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In case I need add this: Your personal opinions about what underwear I wear are really important to me, will.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:44 PM
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138: It wasn't great. He liked me a lot, and I was not into him. We made out. I thought he would maybe get along with a friend of mine somewhat better.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:45 PM
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ouch, AWB, ouch.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:46 PM
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I would just like to observe that I am a truly dignified adult.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:47 PM
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141:

Bummer. It never hurts to practice smooching though.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:47 PM
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143:

Too late. You cannot confess to "sad, saggy panties" and still claim dignified status.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:48 PM
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It wasn't bad. I've been in a makeout mood, not a hooking-up mood.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:49 PM
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The saggy-back panties serve to obscure the odd totally understandable outbreak of whiskey shits: I find them quite fetching.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:49 PM
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145: I'm sure I don't know what you mean.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:51 PM
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148 to 147


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:53 PM
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Boyshorts. This kind of undies is very comfortable, and, unlike others, stays in place.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:53 PM
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The urban myth is that if you wear your ugliest pair of underwear, you will end up in a hospital exposed as a fool to cute doctors.

In reality, two friends were in separate car accidents in the last several months.

Both had their best bra, best underwear, and favorite jeans cut off of them when taken to the hospital. They didnt care about their cars nearly as much as losing their best stuff.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:54 PM
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Sexy wikipedia!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 8:55 PM
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american apparel makes suprisingly great underthings. the last time i was at a turkish bath the lady who scrubs you, who clearly had seen a lot of bikini bottoms in her time, insisted i tell her where to find it so she could send her husband out to buy her some...


Posted by: mrmf | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 9:25 PM
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Yeah, if we ogle the Wikipedia entry, are we sexist?


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 9:27 PM
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I'm going to throw out the proposition that it's not ogling by itself which is sexist. Boorish and rude, sometimes, but sexist implies a different sort of thought process. Charming picture, too.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 9:34 PM
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The last several tens of comments have been both entertaining and informative; I did not know of this boyshorts business. Truly, the internets/unfogged are a marvelous thing.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 10:20 PM
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Following up on 136, the shift from the sag-down-the-back era of women's underwear to the new ride-up-the-butt era is also a truly marvelous thing. One of the small but noticeable pleasures of being a straight male today.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 10:30 PM
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What are the thoughts on sheer mesh underwear? I think it looks fairly ridiculous (I'm more of a microfiber girl) but I must be in the minority given how prevalent it is.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 10:32 PM
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Sheer mesh gets points for trying, but I think it tries a little too hard.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 10:35 PM
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I don't think sheer mesh is very flattering, unless one has had a Brazilian and a perfect ass. I bought a few way back when, and decided that, if it's attractiveness that is wanted, nude looked better than mesh. If it's underwear that is wanted, something with even a modicum of protection from chafy jeans would be better than mesh. Mesh: 0!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 11:20 PM
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increasingly popular style of lingerie among women and are named for their similarity in looks to men's shorts

I have never seen men wearing shorts that resemble those.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 11:42 PM
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161: you need to spend more time in California, girlfriend.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 11:44 PM
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Wait, Terry on Reno 911.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 11:49 PM
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Terry


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-27-07 11:53 PM
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So! I'm at a party to fete the twenty-first birthday of a friend. Many fun stories going around.

Mine: I had a rather tame night, as I was catching a plane to South America the next day. But right at the end, this guy I didn't know to well hands me a shot. "Bahama Mama. Drink up." Turns out it was half a shot of Tabasco and a shot of the crappiest gin the bar had. That fuck.

Anyone else?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-28-07 12:00 AM
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165: I believe I have told my relevant story previously.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 08-28-07 12:05 AM
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Uh, "too", by the by.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-28-07 12:06 AM
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whats so bad about having sex in a bathroom.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 08-28-07 12:21 AM
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What are the thoughts on sheer mesh underwear?

My current favourite pants are hot pink mesh shorts (we don't seem to have to call them "boyshorts" over here; they're just shorts luckily) with two teeny tiny black bows on them. They're really comfortable and so ridiculously OTT that no one could think you were trying to look sexy in them. But they are very cute.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 08-28-07 6:03 AM
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And talking of underwear, I can't articulate how much I hate that 80% of bras are padded these days. I detest padded bras.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 08-28-07 6:05 AM
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I think it looks fairly ridiculous (I'm more of a microfiber girl) but I must be in the minority given how prevalent it is.

I often walk by things in stores and think "are people really wearing that!??!!?!"

Although when I see funky girl underwear (large tying devices or bows or things that clearly are not meant to be worn under clothes or against skin), I just think it is the man trying to keep women down.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-28-07 6:12 AM
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Although when I see funky girl underwear (large tying devices or bows or things that clearly are not meant to be worn under clothes or against skin), I just think it is the man trying to keep women down.

I would imagine that's the point of the tying devices.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 08-28-07 7:59 AM
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whats so bad about having sex in a bathroom

Well, I could see sex in a bathroom with someone you like, say, late at a party/Christmas dinner/transcontinental flight as maybe transgressively fun, even if tacky. Sex with a stranger in a public bathroom, however, totally sketchily gross.

Btw, I realize I'm not going to get an answer to this here, but I have to ask anyway: Do uncloseted gay men cruise bathrooms for sex, or is this strictly for closeted men and the hustlers who serve them?

On a completely different subject, I didn't realize most bras were padded. Seems like that'd be wicked hot & uncomfortable.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 08-28-07 9:40 AM
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When I was younger and more foolish than I am now, my g-friend and I tried twice to have sex in public bathrooms. Both times we ended up imprisoned, terrified, hiding in stalls until other people left and we could sneak her out of the mens room. I don't recommend it. There's a reason for the traditional bedroom preference.

Outside on a nice day is good though. That deserves its reputation.


Posted by: grover cleveland | Link to this comment | 08-28-07 11:29 AM
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Outside on a nice day is good though. That deserves its reputation.

For using the bathroom. The bedroom doesn't work so well.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-28-07 11:32 AM
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173: I have known out gay men who claimed to have done it strictly for kicks. I suspect that the general validity of claims made of one's youth, etc., should be enthusiastically considered. I've always found it sufficiently squicky that I've never learned the tactics employed in that strategy; if the stories of the good Senator's behavior and means of communicating desire are true then he's either wildly over-enthusiastic or it's such an aggressive practice that I've just gotten yet another reason to be generally squicked by public restrooms.

As usual, if it's true, I have absolutely no problem with his being forcibly outed.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 08-28-07 11:46 AM
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Do uncloseted gay men cruise bathrooms for sex, or is this strictly for closeted men and the hustlers who serve them?

I have known several openly gay guys who do this. But I think they tend to be interested in the closeted father-and-hubby type.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 08-28-07 11:51 AM
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I didn't realize most bras were padded. Seems like that'd be wicked hot & uncomfortable.

It's meant to prevent nippleage or seams under the trendy baby-ts. And yes, in sweaty weather, it's godawful. Then again, in sweaty weather, bras are godawful period, and it is WAY TOO HARD to find cotton underwire bras, goddammit.

when I see funky girl underwear (large tying devices or bows or things that clearly are not meant to be worn under clothes or against skin)

They're not mean tot be worn under clothes, hello. They're for looking at.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-28-07 12:01 PM
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164: I kinda love Terry.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 08-28-07 12:02 PM
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They're not mean tot be worn under clothes, hello. They're for looking at.

"Yea, yea, honey. It is hot....now how do I get this thing off of you."


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 08-28-07 12:03 PM
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It's meant to prevent nippleage

Ah, right, hadn't thought of that. Maybe they should sell padded underwear for teenaged boys...

And whattya know, I DID get an answer here about bathroom cruising, a little. Gah, I still can't imagine why anyone who thought they had other options would do this.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 08-28-07 4:30 PM
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