We should get together and discuss this. There are all kinds of interesting stretches/positions you can do to learn how to use your psoas muscles to do most of your standing, sitting, and walking for you. I used to have pretty constant back twinges until I learned them. Now, I get tense shoulders, but my lower back stays mighty limber.
What Ugh said. I'm convinced that maintaining strength (and flexibility) is the antidote to falling apart as one ages.
1-3 are correct. It is really important to work on your strength, flexibility, and avoid injuring your back, either by a one-time snap-crackle-pop or poor use of your back over time.
Oh, and drugs help too! Better living through chemistry!
Strengthening the stomach muscles makes a difference [as 1 says]. I sometimes suffer from [mild] lower back pain and it's entirely to do with bad posture caused by weak [relative to my back] abdominal muscles.
One more for the core muscle strengthening, and weightlifting generally. I haven't been working out at all this summer, and I can feel the difference in my posture. All the different variations of situps, working your lats, deadlifts and hyperextensions for your lower back -- they'll all relieve back pain acutely, just by warming and loosening the muscles (oh, you'll get sore if you do too much, but that's different) and they'll snap your posture into alignment so that you don't keep on getting worse.
Even when I've been at my fittest, I've always had a weak core. I guess I really should do something about that. It doesn't help that I hate those exercises the most. I suppose I should make an appointment with a trainer to have him show me some exercises to do. Or get back into yoga.
How's your mattress? Nothing has made more of a difference with my back than upgrading that.
If this thread morphs into a discussion of having sex while enduring back pain, I move that the title be changed to Broke-Back Mountin'.
Becks, is it your upper or lower back? Assuming, as others here are, that it's your lower back, I'll add these:
- When you're sleeping on your back, put something under your knees -- a folded over pillow, rolled up blanket or towel. I have a wedged-shaped pillow thing that works very well. (I, too, do the pillow ramp thing in addition, leading M/tch to call the whole thing my pillow-industrial complex.)
- If you should switch to lying on your side, put a pillow between your knees to level out your hips. Sounds goofy, but very comfortable.
- When sitting, put your feet up on something so that your knees are slightly above your hips.
- Re: posture, it's not just "sit/stand up straight" as one's dad used to say. Also pull in your abs and relax your shoulders, then try to keep that posture. (Not that you have to hold in your abs all day, though it helps to do it periodically when you think about it.)
As far as the sinus problems go, nasal irrigation is your friend.
All the advice upthread, which I must say occurred to me too, may not be very good news for the recipient. Speaking generally, I'm always reluctant to recommend fitness- and strength-transforming exercises to anyone, because the barriers and conflicts and difficulties can be huge. For the large numbers of people for whom what is straightforward, even pleasant to me is torture and deeply revolting, what do you say?
On preview, I'm not responding specifically to 8, but more generally.
9 - My mattress in NY kind of sucks. My mattress in DC is good but, of course, I'm never there. But I'm not even sleeping on the mattress most nights - like I said, I've been propping myself up on pillows. I'm almost thinking that instead of that, I should just suck it up and buy one of those wedge pillows so that I have more support. That just makes me feel like a senior citizen, though. Maybe if I tell myself I can also use it like one of those Liberator sex cushions...
You also need to address the allergies and sinus problems. Be you ever so strong, these will cause you to sleep in bad positions, as you unconsciously adjust your posture to ease your breathing, and you will pay the price in pain cropping up in all sorts of places, besides being less rested.
And I know that ab exercises absolutely suck, but good ole crunches, even 15-20 a day (not as bad as it sounds; 2 sets of 10) while you're watching Catherine & 'Smasher's vlogs, will make a difference.
14: I say find a gym partner and make unbreakable appointments. It's the only way I can make myself do it.
Hi Becks.
I used to hate those core exercises much more than I do now that my core is somewhat stronger. I vote for Pilates, and other sorts of strengthening classes that have an ab segment. You could always join Crunch and we could take Pilates and Absolution and Ultimate Conditioning together. Also remember to use your bhandas when you do yoga.
That just makes me feel like a senior citizen, though.
Noted without comment.
Something that I find really sucks about situps is the idea that you need to do a million of them. Doing a couple sets of ten or so, and then adding weight over time by holding a plate or a dumbbell on your chest (five pounds, ten pounds -- doesn't have to be much), gets you more strength without the endless reps.
And again, your back is core just like your abs -- pull-downs, rows, deadlifts, and hyperextensions are all useful.
That just makes me feel like a senior citizen, though.
Embrace it. It just gets worse from here on out.
Shut up, Kriston.
Also think about the ergonomics of your work space a bit. Monitor elevated to eye level, centered so you are not twisting to see it, keyboard dropped to keep your shoulders relaxed.
Also, for short term relief, I recommend a good massage. (I actually used to see a masseuse who had an uncanny ability to identify all my ergonomic errors based solely on which muscles were knotted up. "Hmm, this muscle here is really tight -- your computer monitor is off to the left, isn't it?")
All this ab business is the opposite of what I was taught, in that most people have back pain because they're trying to use their abs or their shoulders to stand when they should be using the psoas muscles, which often develop alongside regular core-strength training.
The best way to find your psoas is to lie on your back and hold your knees up, like a baby on its back. Then wiggle your pelvis back and forth a little, which will move your feet a bit without extending your knees. At first, you'll only be able to do it for 30 seconds before those muscles (which are almost always underdeveloped in adults) get too tired. You'll feel two strips of muscle that feel like they angle from the spine out to your hips.
Babies wriggle on their backs like this to exercise the psoas so they'll be able to crawl and walk. It's not until later, when mom tells us to suck in the stomach and hold the shoulders high, that we lose power over those muscles.
If you're wondering if this is Seekrit Sexx Advice too, you're right. You can do all kinds of neat things when you have good psoas control.
17 - I do crunches already when I'm watching TV but I guess it's not cutting it and I need more than that and also work the opposing muscles.
18 - Tia! Hi! I belong to NYSC. I've been really good about going for the last year or so and only because it's right by my apartment -- I know myself enough to know that I won't go unless it's super-convenient. I never bother to take their classes anymore, though. I really should.
For me it's all upper back pain, completely unhelped by yoga.
If you're wondering if this is Seekrit Sexx Advice too, you're right.
AWB has sex with babies!
Doing my damnedest to keep this thread from going in a depressing healthcare-y direction.
all kinds of neat things
Like what?
LB can tell you about life as a senior citizen, but right now her rheumatism is acting up.
23/24: You have to be careful with the distinction between `core' muscles and what people often call `abs'. There is overlap, but if you exercise the wrong way, you'll be emphasizing upper abs (and perhaps obliques) only. There is always a tendency for compensation if one muscle group is much stronger than another, so if your lower abdomen is underdeveloped, say, you with throw your back out of alignment by compensating with other groups.
The key one is called the transversus if I recall correctly, just above your pelvic bone.
Crunches are often *terrible* for this, particularly if you have bad form, because you end up just using the abs higher up.
27: I have to go to work. Use your imagination! Remember that whole thread about how a woman in missionary position just lies still? The psoas muscles allow for really neat, subtle angle-adjustments to occur. Everyone is made happy, and it gives you something to do.
Also, I like the psoas exercises because they're things you can teach yourself to do instinctively when waking up or going to bed. No gym membership required.
Generally speaking, the situp family, including crunches works the upper abdominals, the leg lift family the lowers.
hmmmm, it wasn't clear. In 30, I'm agreeing with 23 (about the psoas) but pointing out the lowest (and oft neglected) abdominal is important too.
If you have no feel for this muscle group (common), you can exercise this on its own by doing leg lifts with your fingers on top of the muscle (just above your pelvic bone) to make sure it is working, then hold position while you cycle through a breath. Breathing deeply uses the diaphram, so forces the upper abs to relax...
33: generally speaking this is true, but if your upper abs are overdeveloped relative to the lower, they will take over on leg lifts too unless you are careful --- giving zero gain.
I find kick-boxing quite good for some of the smaller, core muscles that aren't worked out well by crunches. In the sense that you need those muscles to stay stable while kicking and while rotating the upper body while punching.
I've heard pilates is really good, though [I've bought a pilates DVD recently to see if it'll help a bit with core strength].
I have to go to work. Use your imagination!
Okay, I'm imagining you at work.
re: 33 and 35
I've got a doctor friend who point blank denies that's possible. The rectus abdominus is one muscle and it all contracts, or none of it does.
Of course, that doesn't apply to the other core muscles.
I'm surprised that LB hasn't mentioned the rowing machine yet. I reckon it does quite a bit for 'core' strength in the guise of aerobic exercise.
Re allergies: new pillows?
re: 39
Yes, I notice quite a bit of 'burn' in the core area after 20 minutes in the rowing machine.
I haven't really got specific suggestions, other than to say that it might be a hard problem to debug. I had back complaints for half a year or so, and it took me a long time to figure out what was going on. My dad's lumbar issues loomed over my childhood, and when I developed problems I figured it was just my genetic destiny finally showing up.
Fortunately, it turned out that I had just injured myself. I kept waiting for it to get a little better, then returning to the gym and reinjuring it without realizing what I was doing. Taking a long time off to heal -- over a month, I think -- was what finally did the trick.
Anyway, my point: the immediate feedback your body gives you about whether a new pillow or exercise is working might be unreliable. Getting an expert's opinion and sticking with it for an irritatingly long time is probably the way to go.
38 contradicts the advice of more than a dozen coaches, MD's, and physical therapists, so I'm unconvinced. Particularly 35, because you can feel this happening.
I've got a doctor friend who point blank denies that's possible.
Tell him to go back to his leaches.
Another good psaos exercise: lying on your back, bring one knee up (with your hands) to touch or near enough the opposite eye socket. Hold it there for like a minute, while breathing and relaxing. Then do the other knee and eye socket.
For lower back pain, all of this advice about building your core is of course good, but also consider maybe stretching out your quadreceps. When those are too tight, they can throw your entire alignment out of whack. People who walk and sit a lot tend to overuse the quads, at the expense of the upper hamstring.
Massage therapists are EXCELLENT. A good one should be able to teach you about how to think about your muscles. Maybe someone at your gym would be able to give you a good recommendation.
Lastly, my sister finally got a diagnosis for her lower back pain, and it just pisses me the fuck off. She has a fucking herniated disk. The pain has been coming and going for like five years, the latest episode has lasted almost a year, and she's been flat on her back for over a month----and my mother is all "well, now the doctors know she's not just malingering, and they're taking it seriously." I swear to God I wanted to punch someone.
I can remember feeling the psoas when I installed longer cranks on my bike. I'm a toe-clip user, and I notice from googling just now a recommended psoas exercise for cyclists is peddling a bit with one leg, pulling up. The longer cranks probably worked the psoas with the larger range of motion.
Oh, and Becks ... if you are actually experiencing pain, consider going to a licensed physio instead of a trainer to get some exercises and advice. Trainers really are a mixed bunch (some are great), while physios as a group are the best at this stuff you can find. Much better than MDs in general.
Also, Becks, if you do want to take Pilates, and are interested in reformer classes, I'll betcha if you hung around the major teaching studios and/or put a flyer up saying you were available as a guinea pig you could get someone to give you free classes. Those Pilates Instructors in training have to log a lot of practice time. I've never done it because taking a Pilates reformer class isn't a big priority in my life.
38.---Dude, I just do not believe this. I used to have a very well defined two-pack. Then, when I separated a rib and my muscles over on that side were spasming all day, I got a three-pack.
39: Well, someone who's not rowing for aerobic exercise isn't likely to start just for core strength, and I actually haven't noticed it improving my posture in the same way weights does -- unless your form is really good, which a new rower's won't be, there's a tendency to stay in a sort of curved-back posture that isn't great for you.
re: 44
Jackmormon, the very person... do you know if any of the 'trendy' ballet based workout DVDs are any good? If so, which? thanks!
Also:
For lower back pain, all of this advice about building your core is of course good, but also consider maybe stretching out your quadreceps. When those are too tight, they can throw your entire alignment out of whack.
Yes, I was prescribed quad stretches by a physio [for a knee problem not back but she explained that tight quads can play a role in back pain]. Not because I have especially tight quads but because I have fairly flexible hamstrings [relative to quads] leading to imbalance.
The other thing, just as general advice that I don't follow myself, is really make an effort to stand up from your desk and walk around during the day. Sitting for four hours straight will kill you.
re: 50 and a bunch of others.
Imbalanced muscle groups is the root of a lot of pain and problems, and really hard to self-diagnose. This is why it's really worth talking to an expert (physio therapist, sports medicine specialist, etc.) and having them watch you move. You really, really, aren't likely to get that sort of expertise at a gym or whatever.
do you know if any of the 'trendy' ballet based workout DVDs are any good?
Stop flaunting your heterosexuality, ttaM.
My advice to you, young Becks, is to ask around for a very good personal trainer or physiotherapist and get some hands-on help and advice about what you need to do. Even crunches, done incorrectly, can hurt your back.
There are trendy ballet-based exercise videos? News to me!
Huh. There sure are a lot of them. On the first page, this one seemed like one I might be interested in checking out, but that's based on nervousness about my fitness level. I'd be very careful with the NYCB-based videos. That's a Balanchine company, and that approach to ballet is just brutal. It's kind of cracking me up that they're marketing fitness videos to the general public.
52, 53: I generally disapprove of advice not to exercise unless under medical supervision. Becks is talking about minor soreness that she wants to nip in the bud, not acute, crippling back pain. Working on core strength is likely to help, and really isn't rocket science -- if she doesn't do anything crazy, she's better off exercising the relevant muscles somehow than not exercising them at all. Not about Becks specificially, but about people in general: the likeliest outcome of advice to hold off on exercise until you get advice from a physiotherapist is not that the advisee will snap to and find a physiotherapist instantly, but that they won't exercise, which is a bad outcome.
Ok, howsabout: take any new exercise regime gently, and consider talking to a pro.
Oh, sure. Gently is always an excellent idea, and advice from a pro is a good thing. But absolute dimwits manage to work out without hurting themselves, and they're better off than if they didn't.
I for one never meant to suggest Becks shouldn't do anything without expert supervision --- just that if she were experiencing pain, it was something to consider. That, and advice from random trainers at random gyms is not necessarily going to make it better.
I for one never meant to suggest Becks shouldn't do anything without expert supervision --- just that if she were experiencing pain, it was something to consider. That, and advice from random trainers at random gyms is not necessarily going to make it better.
It's back exercises in particular that I counsel caution about. If you want to get on an elliptical, knock yourself out.
Huh. Have you hurt yourself doing back exercises? How'd you do it?
I have not, because Prudent and Judicious Caution is my middle name, but if someone does crunches without properly situating their legs, they can arch their back and hurt it pretty easily, and given that crunches are pretty much the first thing people do when they hear "core strength," I figure it's best to point them to someone who will show them proper technique.
Becks, I'm assuming that you're not in severe back pain, just some mild twinginess, and I'm also assuming that you're in relatively good shape.
1) Fix the NY mattress. Best fix: purchase a new mattress. Surprisingly good fix: get a piece of plywood. Place under mattress.
2) Like everyone else said, abs & core strength. Some suggestions, a little lower-tech:
-Get a stability ball at the gym. Do crunches on stability ball. Essentially, your back is supported by a wobbly ball, which makes your body use core muscles to stabilize you, so you get the benefits of the crunches plus the little core muscles.
-Sit-ups on an incline board. Set the incline fairly high. Do 2x10 of full sit-ups. You can add weight if you want, like a medicine ball.
-I don't know what the appartus is called, but it's the vertical thing in the gym that you hold yourself in vertically, resting your arms on forearms rests and holding onto little handgrips. So you're hanging there, and then you bring your knees up to your chest. 2x10.
3) Stretch your hamstrings.
I don't know what the appartus is called, but it's the vertical thing in the gym that you hold yourself in vertically, resting your arms on forearms rests and holding onto little handgrips. So you're hanging there, and then you bring your knees up to your chest. 2x10.
Roman chair. Terribly pervy sounding. And looking.
64: I've been warned about this as long as I've been doing crunches, but I figure so has everyone else who's ever talked about doing situps. I don't know anyone who's done themselves significant damage this way.
One nice side effect of picking up a good set of core exercises with proper technique, is that there really is a good reason they are called `core'. If you are strong here, you will do almost everything physical better. It gives you better form running, swimming, jumping (and landing), walking ... pretty much name it, it helps. Keeps back injuries down, too.
I don't know anyone who's done themselves significant damage this way.
Well, I know a guy who died doing crunches, so there.
Lifting weights and stretching is really amazing stuff. All my orthopedic problems from running - hips and knees - have been cured from starting to lift weights and stretch regularly last spring. And I feel springier and more elastic and generally good.
69: Huh. I had actually, in the past, been confused about which of the two things (the one you link and the one Cala describes) was a Roman chair, and had been assured that Cala's thing was it. But I'm clearly wrong. So what's Cala's thing (which is absolutely brutal to use. Those kill me.)?
I heard that Jenna Jameson looks that way from doing crunches incorrectly.
I once went from twinginess to full-out weeping and spasming because I thought I could stretch and exercise my back out of the twinges. You've got to be very careful with back pain.
These days, if my lower back gets twingy, I take four advil immediately and spend the next couple of days reclining gently on pillows: everything I try to do actively to stretch or exercise through the pain will only make it worse, a lot worse.
I can't find a name other than vertical knee raise station.
72/74: I'm not sure what it's called, if it even has an official name. I've spent the last few minutes searching, and can't come up with anything other than "leg lift station", which yes, is often also attached the the dip bars (and referred to as "Dip/Leg Lift Station".
Coincidentally, in my searches I found this hilariously awesome machine. I sure hope that fabric is washable.
I'd also say that all the advice in 65 sounds good to me. I'm not a yoga person, but a yoga stretch I've been shown that feels good, and I don't see how you could hurt yourself with (people with more knowledge of stretching correct me) is curl up in the fetal position on your back, hugging your knees, and roll around gently on your back, so your weight is pressing on different bits of your rounded back.
74: You can use it as a dip bar. And it has a backrest.
I am of a mixed opinion on finding a physiotherapist. It's absolutely great if you can afford it. But I'm sort of against the idea that exercise is something you should only do if you've got the money to pay for private training.
79: Oh, my God. My father needs that chair. He could cut his already sparse furniture needs to one item.
In a moment of self-loathing, can I just say how pathetic it is that I get all advicegiving and pro-weightlifting and interested as soon as the topic turns to exercise, when I've hardly worked out all summer?
Those shoes I was all excited about? I've run in them three times.
The fall will be better! Really!!
The thing that confused me about 66 is that while an actual Roman chair is indeed terribly pervy looking, the machine described by Cala ("vertical knee raise station") isn't pervy looking at all, at least not to me. LB must have a good imagination and a very dirty mind.
84: Huh. The term "knee-trembler" is apparently unfamiliar to you.
But I'm sort of against the idea that exercise is something you should only do if you've got the money to pay for private training.
Good thing no one has recommended this, short stuff.
83: I need to get my ass back in shape, too. When you don't lift weights for months and month, you lose all the muscle mass. If you haven't actually lost weight, that means you've gained a little fat, too. Thighs, I'm looking at you.
Oh, no one quite said it. It was just that there was a lot of "Consult a professional or you'll hurt yourself."
I think there should be strict prohibitions against strenuous physical activity except under the supervision of a licensed professional trainer or physical therapist.
87: Yeah. What I really need is someone to work out with -- that's the only thing that gets me into the gym. Lacking a convenient workout buddy, I do my one "Fuck it, I make a lot of money, I can be extravagant" thing and hire a trainer, but honestly I'd get 90% of the same benefit from a buddy; most of what I get out of it is that if going to the gym is an appointment, I go.
Prudent and Judicious Caution is my middle name
Does it flow better in Farsi?
86: No, but there's a lot of 'get yourself a trainer or else you might hurt yourself/I never meant to suggest starting an exercise program without one!/imbalanced muscle groups are the root of your pain you need a qualified physiotherapist, not just someone at your gym" going on.
89: Particularly for anyone so out of shape or imbalanced as to not even be able to do a single chinup.
No, the whole point is to slow me down.
83: I need to get my ass back in shape, too
This common expression has an unfortunate ambiguity for the literal-minded.
I need to get my ass back in shape, too.
I really thought this was meant literally.
It's sort of both. Although my ass is, in isolation, in pretty good shape. As are my abs. It's more the cardiovascular bits that are not really working.
88 gets it right. What I'm getting from Ogged here is "Don't try to exercise beyond the elliptical machine, because you could make things worse unless you've got the time and money to do it right."
92: That was a specific response to `back pain', not `I need to get in shape'. Even minor back pain isn't something you should mess about with, because its not the sort of thing that usually goes away by itself. That, and it's tricky to handle.
`I need to get in better shape': start exercising, or exercise more consistently
`back pain': it might be worth talking to a real professional. Note the might.
I don't really see anything problematic in that.
Even minor back pain isn't something you should mess about with, because its not the sort of thing that usually goes away by itself.
So not true.
98: rwhat good is a shapely ass if you can only shake it for a minute or two before you get all out of breath.
100 is right. Ned can suck it, if Ned can suck without hurting himself.
101: your mileage may vary. backs are tricksy.
Probably a residual gentilism in my case. My Senior Drill Instructor in Basic (training), a Filipino named Mediola, always used this expression. "Your Ass" was his second person plural, without exception.
So I've heard it for years but never hear it just as an amplifier of "you" and "me," which is how it's intended.
104 continued:
Not valid where otherwise prohibited by law. NY/FL deposit may differ.
Seriously, who hasn't had a sore back occasionally? After a day of unaccustomed lifting or bending, or just too long sitting? You can hurt yourself doing any of that stuff, and a real back injury can be tricky, but the idea that even minor back soreness automatically means that you should be very very fearful about using your back at all without professional advice is just a recipe for never doing anything.
My impression is that yoga has been diluted. The word "yoga" doesn't mean anything anymore. Nowadays it's hard to figure out how to perform what would have been called "yoga" 20 years ago.
109: Ok, fair enough --- as long as it goes away. If it is chronic or recurring over long periods, even mild pain, something isn't right. And it won't tend to self rectify. If you are getting a sore back after moving boxes or siitting too long for a bad week of deadlines or something, sure. This shall pass. It wasn't really what I was thinking of, as I didn't think that's the sort of thing that would prompt a post, but I could be wrong.
In 65 Cala mentioned a stability ball.
I'm told that you can get bigger ones, and use them as chairs for watching TV or even at work.
106: "you" is second person plural. In English, second person singular, "thou," is obsolete, so "you" stands in for it. He used YA for you(understood); he would never say "get in line," always, "get your ass in line."
So you're saying there is no English second person singular? That doesn't make any sense. Second person plural and singular are both denoted by "you".
113: Isn't that the same sense in which Cala was using the expression in 87?
100: I think 109 gets it exactly right. I'm operating from the assumption that Becks is in condition, 28 years old, and aware enough to notice a minor change in her body and aware enough to know whether it's prompted by injury or just lots of sleeping in a weird position on an uncomfortable mattress and having a desk job.
80% of adults experience lower back pain at some point in their lives. Many of them can't afford gym memberships, let alone qualified physiotherapists. Awesome if you can afford it, but there's surely a middle ground in between 'had my muscular movement professionally evaluated' and 'must not move or I will aggravate my back.'
This advice is to Becks. I don't even know why I'm arguing about this.
Cryptic Ned: I agree, but it's like anything else. You have to look to find what's good and authentic. But once you find it it's worth the search.
I have had many shoulder / issues, mostly due to sleeping position problems. I could literally feel my spine straightening out through the course of Yoga.
In my mind, there's no better cure for back pain. (Although a good massage come in a close second.)
A Yoga teacher said something very obvious but poignant. He said that all of us have mental imbalance. This manifests itself as physical imbalance. Which ultimately turns into back pain or other limb pain.
Disclaimer: I'm admittedly biased since I live in Seattle, land of good Yoga and massage.
And yoga is very awesome at finding muscles you didn't know you had and kicking their ass. There's this muscle. I don't know what it's called, but it wraps around the outside of your hip and thigh, and it's the one that spasms like a mofo whenever I try dolphin pose. I would figure out how to strengthen it if I knew what the hell it was.
Bostoniangirl keeps spelling her own name wrong.
What about my back, huh? Fix myyyyyyyyy back!
116: And I was *never* suggesting there wasn't a middle ground. And I certainly don't think you need a gym membership to do this. I was merely suggesting that you might want advice on the right exercises and right form for them --- and you shouldn't trust a random gym's trainer to get that right. It wasn't a complicated claim. And I certainly never said don't move or you'll aggravate your back. I just pointed out that some exercises, proper form and all, will just make things worse, not better.
Also, although this was only a suggestion, honestly is a single session or two with a physio an unmanageable expense for so many people?
Yoga is so uncompetitive. It drives me crazy.
I've got to admit that I'm on usedtobeingoodshape's side in this.
126: It drives me crazier, heebers.
113: Isn't that the same sense in which Cala was using the expression in 87?
Of course, but my point—and JRoth's, I imagine—is that I had to think for a second to distinguish the meanings. I never hear just the amplifier.
123: I'm not sure, but honestly, my legs shake and it's very disconcerting. I'm not terribly experienced at yoga but I can usually manage not to embarrass myself.
124: Not an unmanageable expense, but something that most busy people really won't get around to. I didn't mean to accuse you of prohibiting exercise for anyone who can't afford to be professionally supervised (Ogged I'll accuse of anything. Did you know he strangles kittens? And then mails them to innocent children?), I just wanted to get an opinion on record that the options were in order of preference: (1) Work out with reputable professional advice; (2) Work out sensibly, with the advice and research you can do on your own; (3) Do nothing for fear of hurting yourself, rather than with options 2 and 3 switched. And that the risks of 2 really aren't that great.
To clarify, this isn't back pain from bending or lifting or whatever. It's just a mild achey thing that's there throughout the day and has been going on for a couple of weeks. So more chronic than acute, which is why I wanted to do something about it. It's no more than annoying for now and I'd like it to go away (if possible) or at least not get worse.
It drives me crazier, heebers.
Also, any time I've ever taken a yoga class, I get the giggles during the doggy-style position where everyone arches their back and sticks their ass up in the air. Supressing snorts of laughter isn't real zenlike.
28 years old
Cala's my new best friend.
Fix your sinus problem if possible, then go see a massage therapist.
Afterwards you can do situps if you want.
He said that all of us have mental imbalance. This manifests itself as physical imbalance. Which ultimately turns into back pain or other limb pain.
Yeah, I'm sure a lot of this is stress. I've notice myself tensing my shoulders and thighs a lot lately.
124: I at least know where a gym is, and that they have trainers. I'm not even sure what "a physio" is. A physical therapist? Where do I find one? Do I need a referral? Will insurance cover it, and if not, is it going to cost me multiple hundreds of dollars? I really don't know, so if I wanted to do this, I'd be looking at a pretty steep task.
131: Ok.
Cala: one of your hamstrings (femoris, i think) wraps around. Is that what you mean?
Oh, and I was totally misleading about the transverse ab thing earlier, which would have been obvious if i'd had more coffee. Transverse is high and outside, what I was thinking about is the lowest or the rectus group.
re: 137
Here, a physiotherapist costs around 50 quid a session. Which is not cheap.
The NHS will pay for them, but it's a real hassle getting a referral and there are hoops -- so I got a referral and then went on holiday, so failed to reply to a letter within 10 days, so lost my referral, etc.
124, 127: I guess where I'm coming from on this is thinking of my mother, who while in good health had not exercised EVER until I got engaged (vanity is a powerful motivator.) She joined Curves, and she's now appropriately tickled that she weighs less than I do.
Thing is, she doesn't have health insurance, really (sad world when health insurance is more expensive than a gym membership), and if I'd said she really needed one or two sessions with a licensed professional therapist to ensure she wouldn't hurt herself, I'm almost certain that would have been a hurdle she wouldn't have leapt. (Especially if leaping was contraindicated by being fifty, haha.) And she'd be thinking of herself as someone so out-of-touch with her own body that it was dangerous to do anything to get in shape without talking to someone.
Hence my slightly anti-professional-help-for-basic fitness take on things.
Fix your sinus problem if possible
Dude, I wish. I've had these problems all my life. I've already had two surgeries to correct them and this is about as good as they're going to get. Still, HUGE improvement over how they used to be.
Ned, I think that the misspelled version comes up first in Firefox, because 'a' comes before 'i'. I jsut need to clear my cache, I guess.
Becks, aren't you my age? Which is 28? Or did you have a birthday and are now 28 again?
yeah, thats not cheap ... last time I did physio was less than 1/2 that. But if you are looking for a consult and not a series of post-injury sessions, still manageable probably. Of course they may encourage you to come back lots, but you can be firm with them.
Becks, if you're interested in going the physical or massage therapist route, I have some contacts with a local dance department. Therapists recommended by dancers are usually serious and intelligent (and sort of expect the clients to be so too). They often have a sliding pay scale; I doubt they accept insurance. A single visit probably shouldn't be more than $100, though I haven't done this in NYC.
Dumbbellls, of course, which exercise the entire body. A dumbell on the shoulder or chest for crunches. And I haven't seen all that much mention of dead lifts to exercise the back muscles directly. Slow and careful and pay attention to what is being strained. Shrugs, bent flys & rows all with bells.
I would recommend walking two 75 lb dogs on 12 ft leashes, but most people are more alpha than me. I let them pull as hard as they want, and the effort to keep from leaning forward or backwards exercises my lower back. Cesar would disapprove.
124: A "physio" is a physical therapist, yeah.
My insurance covers up to 30 visits (I believe) to a p.t. per calendar year with a standard co-pay per session of, in my case, $20. That's with a doctor's referral. And to get a doctor's referral, I said that my back had been hurting quite a bit for quite some time.
It's the best thing I've done for myself in, oh, call it two years.
Exercise can help with chronic back pain.
140.---But Cala, we're talking about somebody who is already experiencing a chronic back ache. That specifically is why we're advocating caution.
"Dude, I wish. I've had these problems all my life."
Ditto for me. Nasal irrigation made them all go away basically overnight. I can't recommend highly enough.
140: I totally get this. I'm just paranoid about back problems and was concerned about that angle --- If it troubled Becks enough to bring it up here, it seemed a good suggestion to me.
This is definitely not what I would call a `basic fitness' issue, so were coming at it from different sides.
I forgot "good mornings". Bells on either side of the neck, bend forward and back. I can really feel that one.
In my 147, 124 should be 137. Sorry.
143 - I'm like 29 and 3/4.
145 - Thanks for the tips! If I go that route, I'll definitely check in with you. It would be good to have someone who really knew the muscles as opposed to was just trying to make me all relaxed.
147 - Hmm...I might ask my doctor about it the next time I'm in.
150 - You're not the first person to recommend that to me, Petey. It sounds so gross but a lot of people swear by it. I think I'll give it a try this winter.
I'll be sure to blog it.
Becks, you should probably start with some braces and headgear. And wear some long jumpers made of Christmas-themed fabric, with a mock turtleneck underneath, as though you're home-schooled. I swear wearing all this will help your back, especially if you wear it to the next meet-up.
I'm pretty sure I messed my back up by swimming.
Thanks, Ogged, will.
Did you wait for them to fill the pool with water?
i have the chronic sinus problems too -- not as bad as Becks by the sound of things -- and my mother has it really bad [several surgeries, various caustic treatments, etc].
The nasal irrigation has been recommended to me too. Will check it out.
150:In support of Petey, I took 6 deep snorts of saline. A bottle is always nearby.
The Lady has to get a sixpack of antibiotics, Keflex I think, about twice a year for sinus infections. We really miss Seldane, enough to think about a trip to Mexico.
If you're not walking five miles or more each week, try that before undertaking an exercise regimen.
Don't take just everyone's advice on Nasal Irrigation, watch a pro
147 - Hmm...I might ask my doctor about it the next time I'm in.
Definitely worth asking your doctor.
I've just remembered, though: I did have to have a back x-ray (which insurance covered) before handed the referral. I imagine this is chiefly so that the doctor can cover their (ugh) ass in terms of justifying the physical therapy referral to the insurance company.
161 isn't bad advice, although a lot of people would call that an "exercise regimen."
I've read before (although google's not helping me now) that walking with a natural swinging of the arms helps properly align the lower back, which can of course help with discomfort.
Becks lives in New York, so she probably does walk at least five miles a week.
164:I look ridiculous with the dogs. Most of the other dog-walkers use these 3 ft leashes with the critter submissively at their sides. I use 12 fts, and let the suckers go wild. One will be twelve feet behind me while the other is in front, they will both check a scent to the side, cross each other's paths in back of me at full speed. The leashes are always getting tangled. I twist & turn like a windmill or a modern dancer, all the time walking forward. I have no back problems.
Mornings & evenings, 5-10 miles a day.
"It sounds so gross"
It's so deeply less gross than mucked up sinuses and the drug/surgery semi-solutions. Just a snort of the ocean.
I'll third the recommendation for nasal irrigation and will add that it is uncomfortable, but it gets better with practice.
I've mostly stopped since my alergies have gotten better, but I keep thinking that I would be happier if I was more willing to do it during the times when my alergies are acting up.
I will add, and I've mentioned this before on unfogged, that sea salt or, at least, non-iodized salt is more comfortable.
Don't take just everyone's advice on Nasal Irrigation, watch a pro.
It's worth adding that there are a variety of ways to do nasal irrigation (e.g., a neti pot), and you can figure out what seems least unpleasent to you.
Oh, that would have been much better!
Actually, I think I just aggravated it with swimming after fouling things up lifting badly.
TJ:
How much are you swimming now?
any time I've ever taken a yoga class, I get the giggles during the doggy-style position where everyone arches their back and sticks their ass up in the air. Supressing snorts of laughter isn't real zenlike.
Heebie is inappropriate yoga girl.
Yeah, but I just love how everyone else pretends to be too mature to notice.
If people only would listen, Heebie could revolutionize yoga. After she's gone, the yoga world were regret their neglect of this revolutionary talent.
I haven't gone in just about two weeks now, trying to let it heal. Before that, doing 1000yds 2 or 3 times per week.
I just love how everyone else pretends to be too mature to notice.
How does one appropriately notice?
"Great ass in class today Heebie!" [smack on rear]
Heebie's retrograde opinions on aquaculture are quite a different story, however. Fortunately the world of aquaculture and yoga seldom intersect.
The bottom of the pool smells like roses. Swim down and take a whiff.
Yeah, I'm sure a lot of this is stress. I've notice myself tensing my shoulders and thighs a lot lately.
When I worked in an office where the desks were lined up along a wall, with a colleague facing my back all day long, I had chronic neck pain and tension headaches for months. I quit, and they disappeared. I might add that this person was a friend and, insofar as there was a hierarchy, an inferior. And yet.
Quote from comments:The problem with naked yoga is the "nudist paradox": generally the people who like to get naked publicly are the same ones you'd hate to see naked.
Heebie was pretty good at yoga - best of her generation. But that wasn't enough. So she got on the Juice, and now some people say that she's the greatest yogan ever, and the benjamins are rolling in.
But we purists long for the days when it was all about the inner peace.
I made a G today,
But I made it in a sleazy way.
My guess that giggling has a particularly bad effect on the practice of nude yoga, especially of you start thinking in terms of orifices.
TJ
How are you doing the 1000? Straight? In sets?
Picking between straight, 2x500 and 10x100.
When I do 10x100, I think I'm going too hard. My 100 pace slows remarkably. 1:45 -> 2:05.
Sounds mental and stress related. Glass of wine each night? Orgasm or two each day?
