Re: Updated

1

"With the intelligence of an Unfogged woman..."

Ogged, this is one of the less-sly things you've ever written.


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:01 PM
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Does "loves horses" come up a lot in personals ads? How about "loves to be creative and free"? Those would be a bigger turn-off than "loves live music," right?


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:05 PM
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I agree that these are cliched descriptions, but I have to say that travelling and reading are both great activities.

I was describing one of our mutual friends Louisa to friend M, and I said, "I love Louisa dearly, but she's a little bit crazy." Friend M said, "All the best women are." Ogged, you might have to put up with a tiny bit of insanity.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:05 PM
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I put the "Loves dogs" in there just to put you off. I had no idea it was so utterly unnecessary.


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:05 PM
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Ogged, this is one of the less-sly things you've ever written.

Who's Lessly?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:09 PM
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When you try too hard, SB, I question your motives.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:09 PM
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You've made an error: dogs and tents are pluses, even to you, and, realistically, "loves X" is pretty much the only way to express the relevant information.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:10 PM
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Are you objecting to the substance of the sentiments or the form?


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:12 PM
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The substance.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:12 PM
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Oggy wuvs doggies. Does 'oo wub em too?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:13 PM
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When I try too hard, my back spasms. Question that.


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:13 PM
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SCMT, you lack imagination. I would have skipped right over your ad if it contained more than one "loves x."


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:13 PM
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The objection to literacy is going to be tricky for communicating with possible dates through a text-based medium. I suppose if you're willing to wait 15 years, it'll all be information directly beamed into your brain, including personal ads.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:13 PM
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You object to reading? And yet you want the intelligence of the extremely well-read women found here.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:14 PM
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Are you objecting to

And I'm not objecting, just filtering.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:14 PM
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yet you want the intelligence of the extremely well-read

This is where you give me sympathy (sorry if that was obvious, but it seemed like you were about to miss your cue).


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:15 PM
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This is where you give me sympathy

Awwwwwwwwwgged!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:16 PM
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And I'm not objecting, just filtering.

Nice.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:16 PM
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19

What about: "I hate reading, traveling, sleeping in tents, dogs, and live music, but nonetheless spend most of my time camping at European music festivals with a copy of War and Peace and my Airedale. Why, Lord, why?"


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:16 PM
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The objection to literacy

And this is where I point out that you can't read. HaHA!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:17 PM
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My sympathy is for the putative woman of your mutually exclusive desires.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:18 PM
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I would definitely answer 19.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:19 PM
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I don't like sesquipedalianists either, Kraab.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:19 PM
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Loves Renaissance Faires.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:20 PM
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Kraab doesn't care. His feet are both fully intact.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:21 PM
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Loves sleeping in vendors' tents at Renaissance Faires, amidst the mini pewter statues of dragons.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:22 PM
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When first I read the post, I thought ogged was objecting to the generic presentation, and I was ready to be sympathetic to that. My first personal ad, in the City Paper, back before the intertubes were available for dating purposes, started with: So who doesn't like walks on the beach?

I thought it was a rhetorical question, but I now realize it would have saved me from ogged.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:23 PM
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I like walks on the beach.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:23 PM
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What do you like least, ogged, travel or reading?

Sleeping in a tent, I grant you, is awful.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:24 PM
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She, Po-Mo, she.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:24 PM
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I would definitely answer 19.

Hey! That's 'Rethra Franklin.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:24 PM
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Guess I managed to dodge that bullet anyway.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:25 PM
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I really don't understand no tents and no dogs. They indicate "outdoorsy," which you like. And they probably also indicate a lack of characteristics that you don't like (here I'm thinking of "Russian.")


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:25 PM
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34

32==>28


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:25 PM
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What do you like least, ogged, travel or reading?

I see you trying to work your rational analysis magic, baa, but there are no simple answers. I, personally, would rather read than travel, but serious travelers are more tolerable than serious readers.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:26 PM
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Sleeping in a tent, I grant you, is awful.

Sure, if you go with her. But maybe it just means a little
"Me" time for you when she goes camping.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:27 PM
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It's never too late, Kraab. I have real vowels in my name. Doesn't that excite you? Just a little?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:27 PM
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Please, Kraab, help me move my vowels.


Posted by: GGedo | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:28 PM
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who doesn't like walks on the beach?

This guy.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:30 PM
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40

"Yuppie Shi'a seeks mute mermaid. Will meet you at beach."

m, "Touching optional."


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:31 PM
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'Rethra Franklin

Urethra Franklin?


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:31 PM
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42

Embryotis Redding.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:32 PM
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43

I see you trying to work your rational analysis magic

I am all about the gestalt, as you know. The analysis is just a tool to arrive at a picture of the whole.

For example, is dog love worse than cat love? (I mean: objectively it is, as all good-hearted people know, but what do you think?)


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:34 PM
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44

But maybe it just means a little "Me" time for you when she goes camping.

Solid point.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:36 PM
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45

I like cats.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:36 PM
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46

I love the multiple layers of analysis necessary.

Does Ogged object, himself, to live music and so wants to avoid someone who loves it because he fears its being imposed upon him?

Does he not mind the live music, or does he believe that he could avoid personal contact with it, but also not want to date anyone who loves it because of what that love reveals about them?

Or does he simply object to the personal qualities, whatever those may be, that would lead someone who loves live music to admit to that love in a personal ad -- the music would either be okay or avoidable, being the sort of person who loves music would be okay, but being the sort of person who puts "I love live music" in a personal ad makes you undateable?

There are wheels within wheels.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:36 PM
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47

Either way, the getting stuck part is uncool.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:36 PM
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48

Am dispassionate, fit, lazy. Seeking same, but male and Persian. Torso scars a plus. You can expect me to be just like your mother, yet in no ways that cause you to be explicitly reminded of her.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:37 PM
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49

So you want a very fit couch potato.

No, no, that's not too much to ask at all.


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:37 PM
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I coulda done much better on Jeopardy if I coulda come up wtih "sesquipedalian".

I still don't get the problem with "loves to read."


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:38 PM
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I don't like tents either. I prefer to sleep under the starry heavens, moral law within, rock for a pillow, my precious Bowie knife "[Girl's name]" in one hand in case I have to fight off a mountain lion, bear or hippie.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:38 PM
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You can expect me to be just like your mother, yet in no ways that cause you to be explicitly reminded of her.

You're an evil, evil woman, foxy.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:39 PM
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redfoxtailshrub, I salute you.


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:41 PM
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54

It is sort of awesome how ogged can self cock-block even just reading personal ads.


Posted by: imposter syndrome | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:42 PM
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55

The fourth graf in 46 seems like the most likely. I think Ogged is suspicious of the kind of person who would take out a personal ad.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:42 PM
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Uh, I just don't want to go to live shows, people.

You can expect me to be just like your mother

Ruled out by

without the total insanity


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:44 PM
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She, Po-Mo, she.

Sorry, undoubtedly this has come up before and I did not remember it.

Ogged, do you actually want someone who's a bit of a shut-in? If so, I recommend hitting up any local agoraphobia help groups for prospects.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:44 PM
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I am not sure there is that much subtlety. As I read him, ogged is being direct, but incomplete. Thus, he does not like: travel, camping, live music, dogs.

The incompleteness leaves open questions -- e.g., is the objection to all pets, or just to dogs -- but that's the only mystery here.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:46 PM
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59

I read ogged as saying 'if this is the most interesting thing you can think of in a personal ad, you're probably dull. but since i like all those things, I just really want to be lied to.''


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:46 PM
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Thought experiment: Ogged, you've read my fine contributions to Unfogged, you've seen video of me, and your co-conspirators have endorsed me. Obviously, you now know you'd be a fool not to date me if you had the opportunity. Would you have answered the ad below (glossing over the "reading" reference)? (It's my ad from Nerve from last week before M/ M/.)

About Me:
I've got brains, chutzpah, wit, meaningful work, great friends, and a wicked frisbee forehand.

Things I do for kicks: Road trips, card games, dancing, lounging on the couch with the NYT crossword puzzle, watching good movies and bad TV, overanalyzing pop culture, throwing dinner parties that prize fun over elegance, reading, cooking (sometimes risotto from scratch, sometimes mac-n-cheese from a box).

I'm mostly citified, but I can find the major constellations and can build a kick-ass campfire. I'm a clear-eyed skeptic when it comes to privilege and power and ridiculously sentimental in most other things.

*And* I can quote Marx, Lynda Barry, and Batman.

What I'm Looking For:
A smart, fun(ny), sweet, progressive/left man who believes that the examined life is the one worth living -- so long as it includes plenty of bowling. Must haves: A social conscience and a reasonable level of self-awareness.

Devastating charm optional.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:49 PM
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61

maybe heebie-geebie can figure out how many dislikes ogged needs to add before there is no chance of finding an acceptable ad?


Posted by: imposter syndrome | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:49 PM
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58: Possible, but reading's hard to explain that way -- it's not as if it's a team sport. Couldn't the possible lucky winner of Ogged's affections read inconspicuously while he watched American Idol?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:49 PM
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57: No problem, Po-Mo. I'm obviously inviting some gender confusion with that pseudonym.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:50 PM
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someone's who is a bit of a shut-in would almost always use 'loves to read,' i would think.
and to answer the question, I think wanting a smart, witty, pithy, extremely fit woman who likes to watch a lot of TV and web surf is too much to ask. It's too much to ask from a personals hook-up for sure.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:51 PM
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65

Sir K, that is an awesome ad.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:51 PM
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66

Ogged is looking for a warm, vivacious, fit, outdoorsy shut-in who hates everything.

Is that really so rare?

How about "must love bogs"? I mean, who doesn't love bogs.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:51 PM
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*And* I can quote Marx, Lynda Barry, and Batman.

Adam West- or Frank Miller-style? A good personal ad makes these things clear.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:52 PM
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62: I agree that this is the puzzler. I don't get it myself (and I was shocked to see him prefer serious travelers over serious readers. "Serious" travelers tend to be intensely charismatic but deeply unsound whack-jobs). There is something hermetically sealed off about reading, though, so maybe that's it.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:53 PM
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69

I wonder if Camille Paglia is actually who Ogged is looking for.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:54 PM
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70

A good personal ad makes these things clear.

Ah, but a better personal ad gives the answerer something to follow up on.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:54 PM
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I would indeed by tempted by that ad, Kraab, because 1) you can write and 2) don't seem overly enthused about any particular thing, so not sharing an interest doesn't seem like it would necessarily be dispositive. I would be wary of the "social conscience" stuff, but hey, nobody's perfect.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:54 PM
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maybe heebie-geebie can figure out how many dislikes ogged needs to add before there is no chance of finding an acceptable ad?

Ogged with these ads is like the little girl with the starfish. He can't reject enough to make a difference, but it matters to that one reject he just threw back.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:55 PM
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68: I believe the solution is the same as to all other conundra Ogged poses for us -- he's just fucking with us. At this point I don't even believe he's Persian.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:55 PM
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74

Since this is a personal ad thread, does anyone have any advice on whether I should respond to the following email that I received in response to my personal ad, and if so how? I'm a little torn.
__________________________
O.k., so I've been debating with myself whether or not to write you. I'm drawn to a number of things in your profile, which resonated with me, but one sentence keeps rubbing me hard the wrong way so I thought I'd just put it out there to see whether maybe I took it too literally . . . .or something. Here it is: "There's something a little off about DC, split between a surly, violent underclass and a stuffy, self-important overclass." Well, my social justice work has been mostly on behalf of the "underclass" as you call them, most of whom are neither surly nor violent, and I have worked a lot with members of the "overclass" as you call them, many of whom do fit your description, but many of whom do not. I'm not in either group, and tend towards the judgmental as you seem to, but you put me to shame. I wasn't going to raise this now, but figure if my "challenge" bugs you, that's probably a good sign we're not a good match anyway! Either way, good luck in your search.


Posted by: OK, I'll stay anon for this one... | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:55 PM
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75

Sir K, that is an awesome ad.

Thanks!


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:55 PM
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59: Right, and I'm sure it's been said before you: ogged doesn't want an illiterate, passionless woman; he wants someone who isn't lame enough to talk about herself this way.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:55 PM
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77

I like the one in #60. You seem to be trying to be all things to all people, though.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:56 PM
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78

Thus, he does not like: travel, camping, live music, dogs.

Right, I don't mean to be mysterious.

As for reading, y'all are being a bit closed-minded about that: artists, musicians, scientists and people with other talents and interests can be smart and interesting but not much enjoy reading. I don't mind reading, obviously, it's people who self-identify as "readers" who are probably going to be incompatible.

And I'm still not feeling the sympathy here, people.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:57 PM
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"Likes: exercising to low-impact aerobic videos in my living room with a Persian cat. Looking for a Persian man to write intrusive blog posts written about me. Dislikes: everything else."


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:58 PM
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77: And yet all those things are true. I contain multitudes.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:59 PM
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81

You people are the Nerve/Salon demographic. "Doesn't like travel and camping?! What else is there?!"


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 4:59 PM
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82

I sympathize with the "love dogs" problem. They lick promiscuously, shed all over everything, and soak up affection that your partner could be spending on you. On the other hand, they are good for bonding, and awwww...the way they look up at you when they're begging food from you...it's so special....

Also, the travel thing: people whose major goal in life is travel scare me. What are they running away from?


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:00 PM
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74: Not knowing who you are (I'd probably be nicer about it if I did, so if you're a regular, assume what I say is softened by how much you think I like you), I'd be put off by the same sentence. It's not like everyone in DC who isn't in government or media is 'surly and violent', and lots of people who are (the "overclass"), are probably decent people just trying to do what's right. So, I'd call it a reasonable critique, and would probably, if it were me, write back excusing myself as having been hyperbolic in an attempt to make my ad punchier.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:00 PM
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84

It's not disliking those things that's weird--it's ruling out people who like them.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:02 PM
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85

"Doesn't like travel and camping?! What else is there?!"

See, this gets right to the spiritual void at the center of upper middle class life.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:02 PM
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86

73 = the funny.

Ogged, I think you missed the part where 98 percent of your commenters self-identified as readers. I mean, I fucking hate those people too, but it's just you and me on that one.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:02 PM
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87

81: I'm going to go ahead and guess "staying home"?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:02 PM
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88

And I'm still not feeling the sympathy here, people.

Was I not sympathetic in 17? Please.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:03 PM
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89

As for reading, y'all are being a bit closed-minded about that: artists, musicians, scientists and people with other talents and interests can be smart and interesting but not much enjoy reading.

Dude, we're not telling you that you have to screen for women who say they love reading, just that it's a peculiar thing to be actively put off by, if you're looking in the brainier demographic. Not everyone who's clever reads a lot, but there's going to be enough overlap that objecting to enthusiastic readers is going to shrink your pool way, way down.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:03 PM
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90

I take ogged to be saying that he is wary of passion.


Posted by: Politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:04 PM
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91

I would be wary of the "social conscience" stuff, but hey, nobody's perfect.

My tragic flaw: giving a damn.

(I first wrote "giving a shit" but felt we'd heard enough about Labs' colon in the icon thread.)


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:04 PM
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Anon at 74, I'd say the question is: Was that line in your profile gemerally representative of you, or not? In other words, do you often make biting, somewhat dismissive comments on the world around you? Or was it a somewhat unnatural moment, a "reach" for a clever phrase while trying to write a succinct, distinctive personal ad?

Either would be fine. I do think, though, that if you thrive on being able to mutter bons mots under your breath while you sit through your significant other's tedious company awards dinner, you're not going to be a match for this particular respondent.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:04 PM
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Anonymous in 74, I'd say:

1. I don't know that I would have led off with that (basically accurate, but unkind) description of DC. It's a harsh edge before someone has the context to know you
2. The response was pretty even-keeled and thoughtful
3. If there's anything cause for concern, it's that any sentence beginning "My social justice work" induces nausea and drowsiness.
4. That said, you're rarely wrong for meeting a person and seeing what they're like. This person is well above the median in general thoughtfulness and good will, so unless opportunity costs are high, I suggest you meet him/her for coffee/a drink. You are at diminishing returns to fine email-crafting at this point.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:05 PM
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94

Man am I glad I never had to write a personal ad. (Yet.) I have no insight into myself. Actually maybe that could be my ad.

It does seem that the negative consequences of finding most people undatable fall almost wholly on the fault-finder.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:05 PM
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95

Whoops, generally.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:05 PM
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96

And I would totally date Sir Kraab based on that ad, if all the varying gender/orientation/singleness variables were adjusted to make it work out.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:05 PM
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97

What are they running away from?

Bail bondsmen.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:06 PM
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98

Also, the travel thing: people whose major goal in life is travel scare me. What are they running away from?

See, this gets right to the spiritual void at the center of upper middle class life.

Marcus is my new hero. His next step is to slap Johnny Fontaine and say: "here's what you can do, you can be a man!"


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:08 PM
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99

Just read 74, and since it's anonymous, I guess I can feel free to say that that exchange makes you both sound like tools. It might be a match!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:08 PM
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100

People think my explicit no-relationship policy is harsh and unfriendly, but look at Ogged.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:09 PM
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101

any sentence beginning "My social justice work" induces nausea and drowsiness

My social justice work involves a van, bags of candy, and chloroform.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:09 PM
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102

People think my explicit no-relationship policy is harsh and unfriendly, but look at Ogged.

You mean, the rationale is different but the outcome is the same?


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:10 PM
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103

100: I was going to say--it does save a lot of work.

ogged, do you realize your ad rules out Hermione Granger?


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:12 PM
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104

102: look how much less effort it costs J.E.


Posted by: imposter syndrome | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:13 PM
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105

The purpose of travel is to get far enough away from all the shit you're stressed about to be able to really enjoy friends/family, excessive eating and drinking, etc.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:14 PM
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67: "Are you dense? Are you retarded or something? I'm the goddamned Batman."

I'd marry a woman who said that to me.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:14 PM
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107

rules out Hermione Granger

You mean the reading? She'll grow out of that.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:15 PM
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108

I haven't read the last several books, but I didn't manage to stay away from all the discussion of the last one. Didn't she spend months and months in a tent?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:17 PM
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109

That was under duress, and she didn't seem to enjoy it.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:19 PM
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Ogged's going to rescue her.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:19 PM
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My social justice work involves your mom.

Travel is good, Camping is usually not good. I could be convinced, though.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:19 PM
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My social justice work involves your mom.

Did you go to Auburn?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:20 PM
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Travel is good, Camping is usually not good.

Tramping is the very best.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:20 PM
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Thanks for the advice everyone. I feel the love now! But seriously, some of these were useful. It's tough love!

I have too many responses to meet them all, but I do like the way that respondent forthrightly kicked me right in the teeth. We tools need that sometimes. I guess a lot depends on how many times they use the phrase "my social justice work" in actual conversation.


Posted by: anon at 74 | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:20 PM
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Tramping is the very best.

Nothing like playing a little strumpet down by the campfire.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:22 PM
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The purpose of travel is to get far enough away from all the shit you're stressed about to be able to really enjoy friends/family, excessive eating and drinking, etc.

Anyone who can't enjoy excessive eating and drinking on an everyday basis is not dateable.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:23 PM
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People who get annoyed by conversational use of the phrase "a surly, violent underclass and a stuffy, self-important overclass" vs people who get annoyed by conversational use of the phrase "my social justice work" would probably work as a decent discriminating factor.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:23 PM
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I'm coming around to the "not buying ogged's criteria" position, mostly because I'm coming around to the position that the profiles don't tell you anything except at the farthest margins. As baa says above, if you see someone interesting, it doesn't cost you very much to meet them for coffee.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:24 PM
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Actually, maybe the problem is that Ogged is saving himself for Hermione Granger.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:25 PM
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106: You will either be jealous or revolted to learn that Snarkout and I say that to each other frequently.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:25 PM
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I read almost compulsively---all the time, everything and anything, professionally and otherwise---but I would never describe myself as "a big reader." My personal ad would not say "I love to read! ;) lol."


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:26 PM
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Actually, maybe the problem is that Ogged is saving himself for Hermione Granger.

Well seeing as both are fictional characters, it may work out.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:26 PM
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Tramping is the very best.

I like Cravel, myself.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:26 PM
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And some people lie about their height, JM.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:27 PM
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124: It was the State Police's fault! If I were really just 1'4" tall and still able to drive a car, I'd be proud!


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:28 PM
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115: I think ad profiles are sort of their own independent sport, they're fun but the real discrimination occurs when you meet people.

OT, but curious if Katherine has an opinion on Mukasey, he has a long civil rights type record as a presiding judge (in the Padilla trial, etc.). Perhaps best saved for another thread though. I guess here the only question would be if she'd answer his personal ad.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:30 PM
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Jammies won me over by carving "HEEBIE + JAMMIES 4-EVAH" in his chest with a knife like Marky-Mark in Fear.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:30 PM
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My personal ad would probably suck. I'm not great at encapsulating myself in concrete bullet points, but I do know that my most important criterion is that someone be curious. (Kind too, but everyone wants that.)


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:30 PM
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...and then Heebie took the knife and carved a cute pun underneath.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:31 PM
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And I'm still not feeling the sympathy here, people.

This makes me believe the whole past four years of blogging here is one elaborate practical joke.

See, this gets right to the spiritual void at the center of upper middle class life.

Marcus gets it right here - I used to have "reading; traveling" in the oft-overlooked "Interests" part of my résumé, until a woman much wiser than I pointed out that everyone is going to use these to describe themselves and the whole point (of a résumé or personal ad - which are the same thing, when you think about it) is to differentiate yourself from everyone.

If you put "I like reading, traveling", you're saying you've had a life of relative privilege, but can't be bothered to be interesting with that blessing.


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:31 PM
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Jammies won me over by carving "HEEBIE + JAMMIES 4-EVAH" in his chest with a knife like Marky-Mark in Fear.

In tents is sexy. Intense is sexier?


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:32 PM
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is that someone be curious

I first read this as "bi curious" and was surprised, BG.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:33 PM
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124.---Man, can you imagine the disappointment if a guy advertised himself as weighing 130 pounds and then turned out to be like 4'11"? Crushing!


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:34 PM
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"There's something a little off about DC, split between a surly, violent underclass and a stuffy, self-important overclass."

And while I'm being judgmental, I read this sentence to say: "I've lived in DC for two years now, and never been more than 1.5 miles from Dupont Circle."


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:34 PM
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I think that if you're British it's okay to put down reading as an interest. I knwo someone whose "Who's Who" entry includes it (along with choral singing). British people are also allowed to include walking in their profiles.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:35 PM
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133: Or turned out to be a portly Kenny Easterday?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:36 PM
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Man, can you imagine the disappointment if a guy advertised himself as weighing 130 pounds and then turned out to be like 4'11"? Crushing!

36-24-36?
Only if she's 5'3"


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:36 PM
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126: meh.

I don't know much about him. He had a recent op-ed in the Wall Street Journal about detainee issues (the Padilla case, the need for an administrative detention system, etc.) that I not only disagreed with, but found dishonest. A friend who followed the material witness cases was very unimpressed with his record, but that friend is sort of me squared on detainee issues; he doubtless has high standards.

On the other hand, this is a Bush appointee we're talking about; he's preferable to Gonzales and maybe also Ashcroft. But actually trusting him? No.

So I'm with the ACLU: the Democrats should focus on extracting documents that DOJ is withholding in contempt of Congress, & promises of an independent investigation.

I would guess this won't happen, as these are the Democrats we're talking about, and this guy is buddy's with Schumer. But Judiciary is an above average committee & Leahy is an above average chair; it's not impossible.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:36 PM
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The best part about travel is the way it turns ordinary crime into the perfect, untraceable crime.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:37 PM
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I knew I was right to take the critters across the street when encountering my more swarthy neighbours. The puppies trust everyone but I know better because I read blogs.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:37 PM
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I like Cravel, myself.

Ooh, yes, Fudgie the Whale.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:37 PM
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However, I would look askance at a woman whose personal ad specifically says she is interested in Fudgie the Whale. It sends the wrong message about her priorities. Or proclivities.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:39 PM
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this is a Bush appointee we're talking about; he's preferable to Gonzales and maybe also Ashcroft

He's also better than the guy who will temporarily hold the position until somebody is confirmed. They're tricksy, I tells you.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:39 PM
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138: thanks, Katherine. I guess the bottom line is that he is a Bush appointee, so you have to judge by that standard. BTW, I think Schumer just forwarded him as a possible consensus supreme court candidate back when the Dems were in the Senate minority; that's some way from being buddies.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:39 PM
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The best part about travel is the way it turns ordinary crime into the perfect, untraceable crime.

Loves time travel.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:39 PM
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I'd date 60. Back to the thread.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:45 PM
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"I love camping just outside the perimeters permitted by restraining orders, and travelling back to the scenes of things."


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:46 PM
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I'd date 60.

One at a time is confusing enough.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:50 PM
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One at a time is confusing enough.

Reading comprehension, Apo. Wrongshore is obviously just trying to HIT ON OPINIONATED GRANDMA.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:53 PM
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83 and 93.4 got 74 exactly right. However, 74 should have used a presidential pseud. Therefore: no date for 74!


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:54 PM
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Loves time travel.

"A niche in time saves Stein."


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 5:58 PM
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Critique my ad, please. No one is biting:
I'm an [arty occupation], independent, smart, moderately amusing. I'm looking for the love of my--no wait--I'm looking for someone who likes to go to galleries, museums, movies, the beach, the mountains; who is creative, stable, kind, well-socialized and smart.


Posted by: Jackie O | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 6:36 PM
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Insufficiently specific. That basically says "I'm nice. You should be nice too." If you really like galleries enough to put it in an ad, you're actually interested in art -- say something about what particularly you think about it. And so forth.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 6:38 PM
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You probably shouldn't listen to me, Jackie O, because I hate everyone, but the "love of my life" thing, while obviously a joke, comes across as kidding on the square. And the rest is just boring. "Moderately amusing?" Not to mention that "well-socialized" reads like "housebroken," which makes you sound controlling.

Of course, if you really are boring and controlling, you shouldn't change it and be more patient.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 6:39 PM
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I want to date Sir Kraab. Or plagiarize her profile. Or both.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 6:41 PM
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galleries, museums, movies, the beach, the mountains; who is creative, stable, kind, well-socialized and smart.

Just about all of these should probably be replaced with more specific things. Describing yourself and what you've enjoyed experiencing, not describing the person you're looking for.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 6:41 PM
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Doesn't running and commenting on a blog involve reading? Does that not then occur a lot? Is there hatred instead of love there?

I'm looking for someone who likes to go to galleries, museums, movies, the beach, the mountains; who is creative, stable, kind, well-socialized and smart.

'Vaguely upper-class woman seeks Ward Cleaver'.

m, needs salt


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 6:43 PM
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well-socialized sounds like code for something the nature of which is unclear: it's ruling something out, but what? No crazies?

The online dating scene sound like such a minefield.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 6:45 PM
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Further to 152: I don't believe you're indifferent between the beach and the mountains. Everybody likes one and tolerates the other.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 6:50 PM
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I know you're all quite right. I'm allowing my loathing for the whole process to color my ad, or rather leach the color out of it. I think I'll try something more lurid. Or just give up.


Posted by: Jackie O | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 6:52 PM
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Lurid!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 6:54 PM
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Suggestion: don't read ads looking for dealbreakers. Read to get a sense of the person, and be willing to overlook minor infelicities.

After all, a woman who loves to camp or go to live shows is a woman who is occasionally going to go out and do things with her friends instead of with you, which means she has a life and you'll get to sit home and surf the web. And do you really want to date someone who goes with you to the pool all the time?

(I married a man who was in ROTC when I met him, which would have been a definite no-go if I hadn't already liked him. And my boyfriend's profile said he was looking for a woman who "takes care of herself," which I think is code for "prissy," and which would likewise have been a no-go if I hadn't already liked him.)

In other words, lighten the fuck up.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 6:54 PM
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And I'm not just saying that because I'm the Lur id.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 6:54 PM
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"While I'm not going to tell you my pseudonym, I think highly enough of this blog to ask its denizens for dating advice. If you don't find this frightening and offputting, there's something wrong with you. Perhaps we should meet."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 6:55 PM
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Try to remember, B, that I'm of the opinion that either your husband or your son is eventually going to ax murder you.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 6:55 PM
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159: Actually, I like a hybrid: nice rocky coast with cliffs going straight down into the ocean.


Posted by: Jackie O. | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 6:56 PM
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LB: 164 is genius.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 6:57 PM
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I like a hybrid

A lot of people do. LB has lived her whole life within a three block radius in Manhattan, which fact you have to take into account.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 6:59 PM
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lighten the fuck up.

Or else B will kick you in the head!


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:00 PM
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Jackie O. Just say that you like Camden, ME (mountains, forest and ocean all together) or teh ocean in Normandy. Cow fields quickly turn to cliffs going down to the beech.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:03 PM
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"Ogged" is the pseudonym of a sentient lump of abusium luride.


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:03 PM
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I would say that B. is right about dealbreakers. It's surprising what level of dealbreakers you can get past when things are otherwise right.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:04 PM
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Except for the dogs thing. Don't date a dog-lover if you hate dogs.

"Loves to read" and "loves to travel" can mean "neurotic depressive who buries herself in books"/"neurotic wanderlust hippie"--or they can just mean "I don't date people who don't own books"/"never go anywhere."


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:04 PM
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You know, the chance to date random crazy people you never would have met otherwise is a positive feature of internet dating. At least until you're ready to settle down.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:05 PM
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170: Huh, I was assuming that meant Northern California -- that north of SF coastline is what rocky coast with cliffs going down to the water conveys to me.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:05 PM
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165: But not my boyfriend! So life is good.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:05 PM
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I would say that B. is right about dealbreakers. So true. Doctor-friend John is an incredibly slow reader whose writing can be infelicitous, but he's kind, honest and curious. Of course, he wasn't interested in me, but I fell hard for him.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:07 PM
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You know, the chance to date random crazy people you never would have met otherwise is a positive feature of internet dating.

Random crazy gets a very bad rap.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:08 PM
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It's surprising what level of dealbreakers you can get past

Dealbreakers are just a way of weeding through the otherwise near-infinite choice offered on big-city personal sites. You can only go on so many first dates. Once you know someone in person they tend to go out the window.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:09 PM
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I think I'll try something more lurid.

Oooh, lurid! Just tack on this sentence to your now-profile: "Have put out on occasion, but am unlikely to do so if that's what you find interesting about this ad." I guess that's more salacious than lurid. Or maybe just slutty. But I'd be curious about the responses you got.

"kidding on the square" is a great, great description, and I will use it once a week from now on. Can't be yours, ogged?


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:10 PM
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Random crazy gets a very bad rap.

"Random colorful" would be better.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:10 PM
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"Kidding on the square" is definitely not mine.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:12 PM
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The other day RFTS composed a painfully accurate (both in terms of me and the medium) Harvard Alumni Monthly-style personal for me:

Thoughtful, adorable, Ivy educated brunet, based in Cleveland but frequent traveler to Boston, NYC, Chicago, and parts unknown. Has a fine sense of whimsy and appreciation of both high and low art, as well as a good glass of whiskey. Passionately engaged with politics, technology, finance, film, and literature.

It made me want to punch me.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:13 PM
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A humanist spirit with a technocrat bank account, it went on to say, although that was so painful that it eluded my cut-and-paste.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:14 PM
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"Random colorful" would be better.

Oh my. Marcus, if I ever write an online dating profile, may I use this?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:14 PM
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Random crazy gets a very bad rap.

In which our hero solicits the rhymes of one Vanilla Ice.


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:14 PM
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"Kidding on the square" is one of my favorite phrases and concepts. I am determined to work it into this paper I am working on right now (it's on irony, so this isn't too far fetched).


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:15 PM
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See, I don't think that the choices on internet dating sites are really potentially infinite. The number of profiles that are decently written and demonstrate an intelligent sense of humor are surprisingly small.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:16 PM
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The number of profiles that are decently written and demonstrate an intelligent sense of humor

So those are your dealbreakers?


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:17 PM
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"Monkey man looking for monkey woman for brief encounters. I'm like Bill Clinton, except that I don't object to vaginal insertion and am neither rich, nor famous, nor powerful.

Take a number, laydeez!"

That should do it for you, Ogged.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:19 PM
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"Kidding on the square"

I haven't heard this. Is it like "pince sans rire"?


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:19 PM
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185: sure you can, but don't come complaining to me if you end up with a crazy person.

183: snarkout, you're "thoughtfully engaged" with finance? Does this just mean you're a day trader, or should we all start brownnosing you now?


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:20 PM
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I thought the line in 184 was the cringe-inducing masterstroke, myself.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:21 PM
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189: No; they're the profiles that I actually read to the end.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:24 PM
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Jesus, I didn't see 184. You're right. I'm repelled yet intimidated. I finally understand what you see in him now, Foxy.

(Juuuust kidding...I'm just bitter that he didn't pick up the whole check. Technocrats pay!).


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:25 PM
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A humanist spirit with a technocrat bank account, it went on to say, although that was so painful that it eluded my cut-and-paste.

I dunno, that sounds better than vice-versa. And the description in 183 fits a disgusting number of the people I know, with only minor substitutions for "Cleveland" and "whiskey" (for instance, many prefer whisky).


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:30 PM
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Crap, first sentence of 196 should be in italics, or at least the last two clauses should be.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:32 PM
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"Kidding on the square" is one of my favorite phrases and concepts. I am determined to work it into this paper I am working on right now (it's on irony, so this isn't too far fetched).

See if you can fit "what [X] loses on the swings, she gains on the roundabouts" in there too.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:35 PM
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I like uneven coastlines bordering seas whose gray matches the sky's at twilight.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:38 PM
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I think that personals sites should have some kind of filter so you don't accidentally click on people who have an MBA.


Posted by: Adam Kotsko | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 7:47 PM
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200: As a straight male in this town, you're pretty safe.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:00 PM
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Bitch gets it correct at 162.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:04 PM
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I can only stand to edit my profile when I feel nihilistic and don't take it seriously. I once made a series of outrageously hyperbolic claims in the "celebrities I resemble most" section, among them that my athletic prowess puts Lance's to shame, and I think someone believed me (or at least believed that I'm athletic at all).


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:15 PM
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Who loves sleeping in a tent? I like being outdoors as much as the next reasonably outdoorsy person, but I don't love sleeping in a tent. Since I like being outdoors, sometimes I'll sleep in a tent to be closer to whatever river or mountain I've chosen to visit. But, y'know, I'd really rather sleep in a four star hotel.

"Loves dogs"="My dog will sleep with us."


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:21 PM
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203 further encourages my suspicion that ogged and b-wo are the same person. Still working on which personality is supposed to be used for the really outrageous stuff.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:22 PM
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Who loves sleeping in a tent?

I suspect that Ogged's formulation here indicates that he doesn't really understand what's appealing about camping and what isn't: it's just all "sleeping in a tent."


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:23 PM
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Who loves sleeping in a tent?

Well, Populuxe, my ex, for example, doesn't like to sleep in tents because they're too confining; better to sleep out in the open. "What about night critters?!" "Haha."


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:26 PM
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Well, Populuxe my ex, for example, doesn't like to sleep in tents because they're too confining; better to sleep out in the open.

So how does this address the question: "who loves sleeping in a tent?"


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:27 PM
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I took the implication of Populuxe's question to be that everyone would prefer something more, not less, comfortable.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:30 PM
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b-wo is Alek/sey Vay/ner!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:31 PM
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because they're too confining

I see that my suspicion in 206 was off-base.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:33 PM
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my ex, for example, doesn't like to sleep in tents because they're too confining; better to sleep out in the open.

Me too. I hate tents but I love sleeping under the sky.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:34 PM
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my ex, for example, doesn't like to sleep in tents because they're too confining; better to sleep out in the open. "What about night critters?!" "Haha."

I don't mind out in the open, but if you're somewhere with a lot of mosquitoes, or in a place like Yellowstone where the thunderstorms come on fast, then a tent is pretty nice.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:35 PM
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The first day of camping is great. Getting away, the scenery, the exertion, and then settling down with friends, drinking the jack daniels you schlepped all the way up the mountain, and straying way too far into the realm of self-disclosure. All wonderful. It's the next morning, when you wake up after the shittiest night's sleep ever, with a rock print in your cheek and campfire soot up your nose, with the knowledge that you've got a whole day's hike ahead and you can already feel a case of monkeybutt coming on, and one of your companions isn't talking to anybody and you can't remember why. That's the killer. All due to sleeping in tents.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:46 PM
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215

Also bad, when your sig other decides to drink a lot of vodka and is the sort who sweats the vodka out through his pores and so around 7am when the sun hits the tent it's hot and reeking and you think, no one would blame me.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:48 PM
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Exactly! Who doesn't like camping?


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:51 PM
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215 sounds absolutely dire. No, no one would blame you.

Camping's fun for maybe 2-3 nights. Then it's time to go home and stop trying to cook over a goddamn camp stove.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:53 PM
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#214-15. Exactly. That's why someone who "loves sleep to sleep in a tent" is either making shit up, weirdly ascetic, or 12.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:55 PM
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214: Well, yes.

But that's hiking camping. Make camp and stay there for a few days camping is different. I swear to god.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:55 PM
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"loves sleep to sleep in a tent"

Uh-oh. That fourth beer is kicking in.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 8:58 PM
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Hitting Trader Joe's on your way out of town, driving down to the lakeside cabin you've rented, and calling it camping can work out nicely, too.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:00 PM
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True.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:02 PM
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Camping's fun for maybe 2-3 nights. Then it's time to go home and stop trying to cook over a goddamn camp stove.

It doesn't have to be bad. Although the primary reason my wife enjoys it so much is that I'm the one setting up solar showers, getting up early to light the coals and make coffee, etc.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:04 PM
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Solar showers? Part of the thing about camping is just embracing the grub, man.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:05 PM
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Bathing in mountain lakes and streams can be extremely refreshing, especially after you've dried off and your balls have returned to their normal locations.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:09 PM
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221 gets it exactly right.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:10 PM
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The best night's sleep I ever had was in a tent pitched on gently sloping bed of pine needles.


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:10 PM
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Also problematic when camping is when the LSD has settled in, it's really dark, and you blunder into a jumping cholla cactus.


Posted by: nomromkcaJ | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:12 PM
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your balls have returned to their normal locations

Namely, the forehead of a passed out Fontana Labs.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:12 PM
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To be fair, the tent didn't contribute to the experience in a significant way.


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:12 PM
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228: That sounds like the kind of thing you'd never really recover from.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:14 PM
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229: I'm not seeing the geometry there. Becks, Catherine, could you look into that for us, please?


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:15 PM
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Did I say 228? I meant 229.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:15 PM
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I don't think the cactus had much to do with my later conviction that my then-boyfriend was trying to kill me. At the time I blamed it all on his explanation of Hawking's theories.
G'night!


Posted by: nomromkcaJ | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:17 PM
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Steven Hawking is trying to kill my cactus.


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:18 PM
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200: I think that personals sites should have some kind of filter so you don't accidentally click on people who have an MBA.

See, now, I would be totally with you there, except that I--shockingly--have an MBA. The filter needs to make exceptions for those of us who are so dedicated to the labor movement that we sucked it up and got through b-school as part of the "using the master's tools to dismantle the master's house" strategy. But weeding out all the rest of the MBAs is critical.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:25 PM
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So I'm a little over 100 pages into Master and Commander and enjoying it (when I'm not struggling to picture what various naval terms refer to, and even that's not so bad), but I need to ask whether or not I should let myself get hooked on Aubrey/Maturin. It's what, 18 books? Is it worth the commitment? I assume people here have read them, right?


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:25 PM
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What commitment? Read until you're tired of it, set it aside, pick up again later if you're so inclined.

But FWIW, I did enjoy the series. Some are better than others, but they're all at least entertaining in a "good bad book" sort of way.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:31 PM
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71, 96, 146, 155: LB, Becks, Wrongshore, and I will be needing a room at the Flophouse during unfoggeDCon. Ogged, too, if his lack of conscience allows.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:35 PM
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In some ways, DaveL, you and I are very different people.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:36 PM
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239 - Inviting everyone to the orgy but M/tch?


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:39 PM
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It's not like it's an octadecalogy. Each book is independent. Read them out of order, read whichever one sounds the most interesting, whatever.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:39 PM
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I'm mostly funning you. I've been known to get hooked on stuff myself, and it's a lot higher-risk now when you can get the whole series at once. (Only the first few were readily available in the US when I started.) But as I recall there are enough breaks in the story line that you could reasonably expect not to be compelled to spend the next six weeks reading them all.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:42 PM
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241: I think it violate the spirit of the occasion to include someone I'm actually dating.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:42 PM
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violates


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:43 PM
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18 books? Is it worth the commitment?

They're 18 well-written books. No need for tattooing or even to buy them or read them compulsively, though. It took me a few years, and I read other stuff too. I bought the first one during a beach vacation that turned rainy. I also like reading well-written history. I've reread a few since.

I know a bunch of scientists who have MBAs now.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:44 PM
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I know a bunch of scientists who have MBAs now.

Dude.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:45 PM
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Wait, now that you mention it, that was one hell of an ad! Really! Best I ever read!


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 9:45 PM
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But weeding out all the rest of the MBAs is critical.

Easy, there.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 10:01 PM
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Is this the thread where we discover that a surprising number of commenters here have MBAs?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 10:02 PM
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Worry not, DaveL. Didn't you read the thread from last year's? There will be orgies enough for everyone.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 10:05 PM
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I have an MBA in my fridge.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 10:06 PM
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Bathing in mountain lakes and streams can be extremely refreshing, especially after you've dried off and your balls have returned to their normal locations.

Then you take a sip of the cool, pure mountain water, and contract girardia.

Also, I hope enough people around here know what a cholla is to feel sorry (but amused) on nomromkcaJ's behalf.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 10:09 PM
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250: I dunno, is it really be that surprising?


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 10:10 PM
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Do fewer people know what a cholla is, or how "giardia" is spelled?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 10:10 PM
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I concede that for obvious reasons of upbringing you will be more familiar than I with the names and life-cycles of internal parasites.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 10:13 PM
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Some people really don't like to be corrected.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 10:15 PM
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There will be orgies enough for everyone.

An actual blowjob for every blowjob joke made in comments! An end to Teo's celibacy! Come one, come all! A test of public sex positions in the Union Station bathrooms!

Sorry, getting a little overenthusiastic.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 10:16 PM
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I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but in truth it must be said that UnfoggedCon was actually just all orgy jokes rather than actual orgies.

Um, right honey?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 10:21 PM
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259: True indeed. Orgies, plural, probably understates the degree to which the entire thing was one continuous orgy.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 10:23 PM
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An end to Teo's celibacy!

If only.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 10:24 PM
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An actual blowjob for every blowjob joke made in comments!

Not to be a killjoy here, but maybe our investment banker friends can sketch out how moral hazard could come into play here. Looks to me like a free lunch.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 10:26 PM
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Looks to me like a free lunch.

You call that a meal?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 10:26 PM
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262: The person making the joke is the one who has to perform the blowjob, Ned.

But hey, whatever you like to eat for lunch is fine with me.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 10:27 PM
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Okay then, "free" s/b "box". Now it's no longer a blowjob joke.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 10:28 PM
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Poor substitute. Box lunches are never filling.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 10:40 PM
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Re: Aubrey/Maturin

It's 20 books, actually (nice of Patrick O'Brien to die upon reaching that nice round number). I got hooked after reading Lewis Lapham's recommendation (hell, if an author has a thesaurus to match his vocabulary, there's something to be said for him...).


Posted by: McKingford | Link to this comment | 09-17-07 11:05 PM
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Sir Kraab writes an excellent profile.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 5:59 AM
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I used to love camping but I'm too stiff to sleep comfortably on the ground any more. I'd go out for as long as 10 days at a time and eat mostly cold food. I never carried a tent and only got rained on about 4 times in about 30 trips. Going to the right place at the right time helps. No Giardia either. All fun.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 6:20 AM
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4th bit of comment spam. If anyone sees JL around here, please ask him to e-mail me. It's semi urgent. I sent him an e-mail at his yahoo account.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 6:58 AM
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269: Misanthropes love nature. I love to hike and camp too, the West is so beautiful you almost have to.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 8:14 AM
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I never carried a tent and only got rained on about 4 times in about 30 trips.

I've been caught in the rain a few times without a tent, or sometimes when I just hadn't bothered to set the tent up. It's a funny arithmetic to do in your head at 5:00 am: "Should I just sleep here in the rain? It's going to stop any second, right? It's just going to drizzle for a few minutes, right? Right?"


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 8:19 AM
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The Sierras are great because it very rarely rains. But God help you if you're without a tent during mosquito season.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 8:20 AM
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You people are the Nerve/Salon demographic. "Doesn't like travel and camping?! What else is there?!"

I submit to you that the specific combination of travel and camping is a positive in a woman (or man). If she likes travel and not camping, she's spoiled: likes to sleep in 4-star properties and be waited on at dinner. If she just likes camping and not travel (i.e. up by the lake or in the mountains near her house), she's a rube.

The two together suggest both a streak of wanderlust and a tolerance for less-than-perfect comfort in pursuit of enriching experiences.

In a past life, I worked for a publisher of youth-oriented travel guides. The employment application for travelling researchers asked whether the applicant had experience camping. Most of our researchers never slept in a sleeping bag or a tent while on the road, but an affinity for camping was believe to be good proxy for general resilience in the face of the frustrations of the job.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 8:30 AM
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Is this the thread where we discover that a surprising number of commenters here have MBAs?

Doesn't d-squared have one? Or is he one of those MSc Finance types?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 8:37 AM
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If she likes travel and not camping, she's spoiled

This is so wrong! I'm not a camping-hater, but I don't love it. I would definitely say I love travel though (although not in a personal ad, but whatever). I don't like 4-star hotels or being waited on. I like to travel and (if alone) stay in hostels or (if with others) a shabby, clean 2-star with private bathroom.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 8:51 AM
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You people are the Nerve/Salon demographic. "Doesn't like travel and camping?! What else is there?!"

The GQ / Cigar Aficionado / International Male demographic obviously disagree.

Camping is a very inefficient way to get cut abs.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 8:53 AM
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John is right. There were few homosexual campgrounds in national parks even at the height of bathhhhouse culture.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 8:55 AM
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I like to travel and (if alone) stay in hostels or (if with others) a shabby, clean 2-star with private bathroom.

Like I said, spoiled rotten.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 9:09 AM
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Just kidding about 279. I think you make an important distinction (which I elided) between "not loving" camping (OK) and "hating" camping (=presumption of spoiledness).


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 9:11 AM
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267: I've been considering reading them since David Mamet's piece following O'Brien's death, but it was just one item on the interminable list in my head "Books I Should be Reading" which for some reason has recently jumped to the forefront.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 10:17 AM
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31: since no one else said it, nice Steely Dan reference.


Posted by: dan | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 10:17 AM
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281: I should love them, based on general reading patterns, but am underwhelmed. They do get better -- while you should start at the beginning, not being nuts about the first two or so isn't a reason to stop. By the third or fourth, though, you'll either be crazy about them, and will read the remaining sixteen without having to talk yourself into them, or you can give up because they aren't going to get any better.

(Some time I have more time, I will expound on why I don't like them all that much. Fun fact: most of the critique can be copied directly over from why I don't like Harry Potter!) (Not really, but sort of.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 10:26 AM
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Or is he one of those MSc Finance types?

I am indeed. The official reason given in my guardian biog is that it was substantially cheaper; actually of course the real reason is that MBAs are for cunts.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 10:32 AM
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Mamet mentions also George V Higgins, who writes speech and character incredibly well. Higgins also explores the moral dimension of his settings rather than playing his well drawn realism for laughs, a failing in my mind of both Westlake and Elmore Leonard. He's occasionally quite funny, but it's not a schtick. There's a similar sensibility between The Wire and some of Higgins' books, I think. For me, both Obrien and Higgins are stylisticaly well-done escapism rather than should-reads.
Higgins is more serious than much literary fiction aiming at "big ideas," IMO


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 10:37 AM
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The official reason given in my guardian biog is that it was substantially cheaper; actually of course the real reason is that MBAs are for cunts.

But so is finance. You're not one of those self-loathing cunts, are you?


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 10:53 AM
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Self-loathing cunts are advised to read the groundbreaking book Ourselves, Ourselves to come to terms with their anatomy.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 10:54 AM
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284 seems an excellent piece of reasoning.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 11:05 AM
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237: It's 20 books and yes, they get really good about five or six in. The chase with the Dutch ship in the roaring forites is as good a placemarker as any.


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 12:31 PM
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the real reason is that MBAs are for cunts

My impression (formed entirely second hand, as I don't have an MBA) is that the academic value of the MBA program consists entirely of finance and production & operations management. Everything else is bullshit and filler.

But beyond that, the academic value is only a tiny fraction of the total, the rest being (1) signalling value to employers; (2) contacts with your classmates who will go on to be muckety-mucks in their own right; and (3) preferential access to undergraduate tottie of a quality that one could never approach when one was oneself an undergraduate. Not necessarily in that order.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 12:43 PM
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290: The accounting courses are also supremely useful if you ever want to figure out what is going on within a business, but otherwise you're pretty spot-on in my experience thus far. I keep getting told that some of the management courses on negotiation or decision making are extremely useful, and I suppose I will have to find out (2 are required for the degree, and I'm taking one this term), but my degree will be approximately 90% finance, accounting, and economics (from greatest to least).

I wouldn't know about (3) either, as I am going part-time to get my employer to pay for the whole deal. However, I can vouch for the 4th non-academic benefit, which is the opportunity to change careers much more easily than is typically possible thanks to corporate recruiters who are just as, if not more, eager than any of those sent to undergrad institutions.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 1:26 PM
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the 4th non-academic benefit, which is the opportunity to change careers much more easily

This is what I meant by "signaling to employers". The admissions committee of the business school is a filtering mechanism precedent to the HR department.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 1:47 PM
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I think i'd go out on a date with Paglia, it would be really interesting. We'd probably not fu ck tho.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 2:16 PM
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Do you like Pina Coladas?


Posted by: Joeo | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 4:56 PM
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293: she's a lesbian. But I'm sure she'd talk your ear off, if not do anything else.

If you were to have sex, I'm sure she would be the top.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-18-07 10:13 PM
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