Re: The Misadventures Of A Half-Hearted Shopper

1

You should move to New York so you can pick up NYU chicks at WF.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:22 PM
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"Damn, she looks like Thandie Newton.

And that, dear reader, is when I saw her wedding ring

You're killing me, here. Ugh.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:22 PM
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It doesn't actually make me happy to hear people sounding like me.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:23 PM
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:- ( :- ( :- (

And so, ogged went home, and sat on ben's face, which face was attached to ben's body, seated atop yet another frowning man. And lo, chicken salad, as it were, was had at last.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:24 PM
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I hope this tired old man thing is a phase, or my mom is never getting those grandkids

So, it is a phase, right? Right?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:26 PM
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So all the sexual tension in the first paragraph was only in your head? I mean, was the "she was sort of aware of where I was" pure fantasy, or was it something like "why is this creep staring at me?"


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:26 PM
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Between soccer goalies and women who make jokes and his use of emoticons, I'm really starting to cotton up to Ogged.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:27 PM
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A man was watching me on the F train today for a whole hour. I was having an animated conversation with my friend, so it wasn't scary or anything. In fact, he looked really nice and interesting. We got off at the same stop and almost said something, but just smiled and went our separate ways.

Emerson, I fucking hate how you've poisoned my mind.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:29 PM
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I've only talked to a girl I spotted from afar on the train once. She was very nice; I got her number.

Never did follow up, moved to California shortly thereafter.

Probably wasn't Emerson's fault.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:34 PM
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Sorry I ever said anything. It was a role. Actually, I'm a go-between who arranges marriages for a living. I just get tired of my job sometime. I even try occasionally to set up my sister.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:34 PM
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It's not your fault, Emerson. I just remember a time when I would have at least acknowledged to the guy that I saw him laugh at my jokes. I am old now, and paranoid about the possibility that the guy actually turns out to be creepy or not fun.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:38 PM
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As if your mother would ever approve of you marrying a Zambian woman from Cornwall.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:46 PM
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Shit. That last paragraph caused me to go looking for S//eph/en de//n B/es//t/e's piece on how only strippers understand him--trying to be helpful and all--but it seems to have completely vanished from the intertubes.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:46 PM
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I thought cottoning up was banned here.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:48 PM
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Here, DaveL.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:49 PM
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Wasn't there a superlong thread a while back about breaking you out of that chicken-salad-for-breakfast rut? Because that's just what it is: a rut.


Posted by: Counterfly | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:50 PM
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I've decided that I like this rut, and I hereby rechristen it a routine.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:52 PM
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15: Praise Jesus! Material of that caliber should not be lost to posterity.

My Google-fu is not strong.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:53 PM
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Well, if it gets you facetime with hotties in the chicken-salad aisle, I can't argue with your logic.


Posted by: Counterfly | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:54 PM
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Obviously she wanted you to flirt with her. Married people have no friends who will flirt with them.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:55 PM
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Isn't eating chicken salad for breakfast high on the do-not-date list, like wearing socks with sandals or having tufts of hair coming out of your nose and ears?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:55 PM
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I am old now, and paranoid about the possibility that the guy actually turns out to be creepy or not fun.

(sighing world-wearily) We're all old, babe. This world's old, too, and tired. Sure, there's creeps out there. Weirdos, too! Not enough fun, either. But we all get by, don't we? We try and muddle through. (pets mangy, three-legged dog) You too, pal.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:55 PM
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And that, dear reader, is when I saw her wedding ring

... and you gave up. no stamina the youth of today. have you never heard of the old Akhazi[1] proverb "Faint heart never shagged a yummy-mummy from the supermarket during his coffee break"? No you haven't, because you keep massacring the Akhazis, you bloody supremacist.

[1] for those who can't be bothered, they're the Welsh of Iran.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:56 PM
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20: Yoyo is very young. Very, very young. Very not-married young.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:57 PM
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Our WF also has a vegan "chicken" salad. You could go for that.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:58 PM
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I've never heard of the Akhazis. My people are a thorough people.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:58 PM
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it might not be spelled that way.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 7:59 PM
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or for that matter, since apparently I was thinking of the Ahwazi Arabs, not pronounced that way either.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:00 PM
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Most attractive married women have their own personal UPS driver or appliance repairman to take care of them. They don't have time for Ogged. They'd rather figure out how to tell their husbands that the washing machine breaks down almost every week.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:01 PM
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If it weren't for flirting with my wife's cute friends I would have no love life at all.


Posted by: tassled loafered leech | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:02 PM
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if 29 was true, the labour market would be a lot different from how it actually is.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:03 PM
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Don't you study TV, dsquared? Don't you research porn videos?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:06 PM
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Married people have no friends who will flirt with them.

Quite possibly the wrongest statement ever made on this blog.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:07 PM
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Married people have no friends who will flirt with them.

Hoo boy, how depressing would life be if that were true?


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:09 PM
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"Married women are safe". Discuss.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:10 PM
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"Married women are safe".

Not from me, they aren't.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:11 PM
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Also, yoyo should read the archives.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:12 PM
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You're safe from them is the point. So what if they get pregnant?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:16 PM
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Below the post linked by apo (am I allowed to call him (it is him, right?) that? Being just an occasional commenter and all?) is this one. I think ogged should run the survey again. I suspect the answers might be different.


Posted by: cdm | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:22 PM
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Oh, god forbid you address the apostropher informally, but it's fine to tell me what to blog about.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:30 PM
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yummy-mummy

Somewhere there is a cultural studies grad student writing a dissertation on the cultural implications the UK's choice of "yummy-mummy" and the US's opting for "MILF".


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:32 PM
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O-stamp you're the Rodney Dangerfield of your own blog.

I empathize, man. Come cry on my shoulder any time.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:33 PM
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All that stuff except the wingwoman thing is just selective memory.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:34 PM
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So, on the subject of flirting with married people. If a woman does the lean-forward-and-touch-your-arm thing, and she first gives your bicep a little squeeze, and then as a bonus lays her hand on your forearm, then sticks around and chats for way longer than you'd have expected -- definite flirtation, or maybe just being friendly?

Better that I should ask the Mineshaft than ask my wife.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:35 PM
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definite flirtation


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:36 PM
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It's not flirting unless a cock has been touched, Jesus.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:36 PM
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44: Who cares? The joy of married flirting is that you don't have to obsess about it.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:38 PM
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It's not flirting unless a cock has been touched, Jesus.

By anyone, or would it have to be the woman?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:39 PM
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Also, what's with all the engaged and married women at the office flirting like crazy with me? And by "what's with" I mean "I'm glad you feel comfortable around me, ladies. See you at the monastery."

Really, though, it's nice. Maybe they'll set me up with someone.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:39 PM
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The joy of married flirting is that you don't have to obsess about it.

Maybe you would if, like JMQ, your wife was going around doing the lean-forward-and-touch-your-arm and squeeze the bicep and hanging around longer than expected thing to other guys.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:40 PM
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Gonerill has not listened to my wife banter with her male colleagues.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:44 PM
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By anyone, or would it have to be the woman?

By anyone dude.

More seriously, this goes into the bucket of probable but not definite flirtation. People really do have markedly different thresholds for "just friendly". If you happen to know the person, and know that this was flirtatiously out-of-character for her, that's one thing (and if it was totally in-character, that's another). I assume you don't know her that well, hence the question.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:44 PM
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I feel you, Ogged. My relationship with Wreck is frankly enough to stress me right now. To be sure, he does shed more than most of the women I've dated.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:49 PM
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Gonerill has not listened to my wife banter

"Bally Jerry, copped a packet, right in the how's your father ... "


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:51 PM
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Nah, more like flirtation chicken. Some of the guys get nervous and tone it down when I'm around, but some don't, and when it's on the phone they don't necessarily know I'm there. She mostly wins.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:54 PM
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Not obsessing, really. I just discovered that age and marriage have not left me any less clueless.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:55 PM
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what's with all the engaged and married women at the office flirting like crazy with me?

I don't question it, I just thank the Lord.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:56 PM
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57: sure, but, like, where are the single women flirting with me? Not at the office, this I can tell you. Maybe I should get out more.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:58 PM
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56: I don't pretend to be any less clueless, but I draw comfort from the idea that "what would happen if I...?" isn't really a question I'm supposed to be asking anyway.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 8:59 PM
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58: Perhaps Ogged can provide a fatwa addressing whether engaged women with cold feet are still fair game.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:02 PM
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Could he include a fatwa on married and engaged guys flirting without revealing their relationship status? That would be helpful. I'm happy to help a brother out with his ego, but I have to know the rules first.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:09 PM
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60: Death!
61: Death!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:11 PM
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Fuck. Where's Lee Bollinger when we need him?


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:13 PM
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61 is funny. It reminds me that when I went on paternity leave I got an email from an attractive co-worker that said (more or less): "You have a kid?! I didn't even know you were MARRIED! Argh--why have you been flirting with me so much?!"

My three immediate thoughts were:
(1) um, I wear a wedding ring every day;
(2) WHY would you put that in an EMAIL??;
(3) I didn't really think I'd been flirting that much, except for that one time I grabbed your ass, but there were extenuating circumstances involved in that incident.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:19 PM
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extenuating circumstances

Go on...


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:20 PM
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Married people have no friends who will flirt with them.

Guys at school flirt WAY more because now it's safe to flirt with me. 'Cause I'm taken or something, so they couldn't mean anything.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:21 PM
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62: But for whom, teacher?


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:21 PM
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There's a farmers market near my place, it's full of beautiful women on weekends, and I keep thinking it's the *perfect* place to pick someone up. The stalls are crowded, hands brush reaching for the same tomato, etc.

That scenario has actually happened, but of course I completely freeze up and cannot think of anything to say. Or I think of one thing to say, and they laugh, and then I can't think of a second thing to say, or blurt out a "superman on a hot dog!" line of some sort.

I think there are very few men out there who can actually pick up a strange woman in a public place. I mean, Mystery probably can, but not many others.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:21 PM
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65: alcohol.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:21 PM
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69 to 68. Marcus needs to drink a few beers before going to the farmers market.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:22 PM
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I think there are very few men out there who can actually pick up a strange woman in a public place.

I've done it, by gum. But really, really rarely. Most public situations don't have nearly enough accessible alcohol.

I'm also assuming by "pick up"' you mean "make plans to see some other time." That is what you mean, right?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:24 PM
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That'll help, I'll make my witty comment reeking of alcohol on a Sunday morning.

By the way, I tried the wingwoman thing at a bar a week or two ago and it seemed if anything quite counterproductive.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:25 PM
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71, 70, 69: great(ly intoxicated) minds.

69, though: so what if she had said "you're married? Why are you getting drunk and grabbing my ass, then?"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:25 PM
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68: I've picked up both men and women in public places. It's harder for a woman than you'd think. One of the reasons I love the PUA is it's very similar to a lot of the moves I had to develop while an undergrad at Nerd University, where boys make up 70% of the student population, but, as we used to say, "Though the odds are good, the goods are odd."


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:25 PM
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Married women are safe.
and
Nah, more like flirtation chicken.

This sounds to me like a fairly common attitude toward flirtation with married women -- on the one hand, it's "safe," so guys'll do it. On the other hand, everyone knows there's some threshold where "safe" becomes "dangerous." The danger makes it exciting, the safety makes it secure.

Anyway, it certainly seems like some fellas did a whole lot more flirting when I was still married and they were sufficiently confident I wouldn't be taking them seriously.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:28 PM
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You should post a "Missed Connections" post on Craiglist. I doubt many pay off but they're often very entertaining. And don't let a ring stop you, any woman that believes her marriage is strong needs not a wedding ring.


Posted by: tom.a | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:28 PM
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"Though the odds are good, the goods are odd."

I heard this line within a few days of arriving at Ivy U for grad school in the mid-90s.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:29 PM
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73: but I had a wedding ring on at that time. (Well, probably not at that precise time, because I often take my wedding ring off when I'm at bars so that I don't lose it--no, really--but I'd definitely had it on earlier that same day.)


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:29 PM
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I think there are very few men out there who can actually pick up a strange woman in a public place.

Not sure about this. If you break the ice and the woman is available and interested, because of the training the good and great patriarchy has bequeathed to her, she'll be able to keep the conversation going if you make it clear that you weren't just making a polite one-off comment to a stranger.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:29 PM
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I'm also assuming by "pick up"' you mean "make plans to see some other time." That is what you mean, right?

Hmmm, well, it's not the true all-star version but I guess it counts. So long as she doesn't give you a fake phone number or something (yes, this happened to me). Of course by that definition I've definitely picked up women at parties. I don't think parties count as a strange woman in a public place, though, being at the same party is like a half-intro.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:29 PM
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any woman that believes her marriage is strong needs not a wedding ring.

Whoa, I haven't heard a spurious aphorism like that since Homer Simpson's "It takes two to lie. One to lie, and one to listen."


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:29 PM
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I don't think parties count as a strange woman in a public place, though, being at the same party is like a half-intro.

Yeah, parties don't count. Neither does Burning Man, obviously. Half-into + half-naked + randy, randy people = much of your work done for you.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:31 PM
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Dunno if bars count, either.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:32 PM
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The "needs not" was a nice touch. Like "Not all those who gander are tossed."


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:33 PM
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I heard this line within a few days of arriving at Ivy U for grad school in the mid-90s.

I heard something similar as a warning to avoid the grad students. Followed by a story about a grad student who would pluck girls' hair to make mittens for masturbating.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:33 PM
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I heard this line within a few days of arriving

It's very common.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:33 PM
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There was a TA at Nerd U who was caught leaving turds in the bathroom inside empty toilet paper rolls.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:35 PM
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If you break the ice and the woman is available and interested, because of the training the good and great patriarchy has bequeathed to her, she'll be able to keep the conversation going

Is this theory talking, or experience? I used to believe this, but I've broken much ice and not had others pick up the ball. Quite likely I'm just not doing it right. But I think the whole "he might be creepy, I'll leave it up to him to prove he's not" issue is a huge one.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:35 PM
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86: I never said it was original, but it was a good thing to keep in mind.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:36 PM
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There was a TA at Nerd U who was caught leaving turds in the bathroom inside empty toilet paper rolls.

Seriously? Jesus effing christ.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:37 PM
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87: Jesus, make us all puke, why don't ya?


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:37 PM
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Is this theory talking, or experience?

I remembered after the Thandie Newton experience that I was genuinely chatting with another woman at Whole Foods a few weeks ago. No ring, friendly, she was keeping the conversation going. I certainly felt like I could have asked her out. But now that I remember more, she initiated the conversation, so maybe not quite the same.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:37 PM
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I never said it was original

I was responding to Gonerill also having heard it.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:38 PM
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The key is to sensually lapse into distracted, alienating silence.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:38 PM
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Seriously? Jesus effing christ.

I feel like I just lost a contest. The other part of the story I neglected to include was that the guy would slip his semen in their drinks.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:39 PM
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Marcus, you should probably put a patch over that third eye.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:39 PM
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There was a TA at Nerd U who was caught leaving turds in the bathroom inside empty toilet paper rolls.

Recently here at Sunny State we've had (1) The Foot Guy, who would go into the library and ask to draw women's feet ... then ask to *trace* their feet ... then it became clear he just wanted to *touch* their feet. And (2) Obscene Drawing Guy, who would hang around outside Starbucks and ostentatiously draw sexually explicit figures, and try to engage passing women in coversation. And most recently (3) Toilet-peeper guy, who is hiding in women's bathrooms and (unfortunately for the weirdo laffs) possibly trying to rape the women he peeks in on.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:42 PM
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Yeah, I think girl-mitten/semen guy wins over turd-hider.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:43 PM
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92: yeah, it's probably very individual-specific. I can have a kind of yappy somewhat awkward extroversion that is not well calculated to put strangers at ease in public places. A bit too much nervous energy there. Although it can work well for me one-on-one. Ogged, you sound much less likely to scare people off.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:43 PM
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Puts me in mind of the so-called Phantom Shitter at Big State U, who would on a given night select a bathroom in the honors dorms and festoon it (toilets, stalls, sinks, walls) with a prodigious supply of feces. Turned out he was a fifth-year Latin student.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:43 PM
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Not that they should think of it as a contest.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:44 PM
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Somewhere there is a cultural studies grad student writing a dissertation on the cultural implications the UK's choice of "yummy-mummy" and the US's opting for "MILF".

This is the prescriptivist in me coming out, but "MILF" and "yummy mummy" are analytically distinct categories, despite the tendency of the porn industry to conflate them. A MILF isn't just any hot mother, but the hot mother of one of your friends. That means that it's a rare guy who knows any MILF's beyond his 20's


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:45 PM
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or, it could just be the third eye.

I'm going to bed, because this thread is going down the toilet. In all too graphic a manner.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:45 PM
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87: That can't be an easy thing to do, logistically. And really, thinking outside the box. I mean, anybody can get a cheese grater and go defile the pastry case. I'm sort of impressed.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:46 PM
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Hiding them would have been viewed as a courtesy by the students at Big State U's honors dorms. 95: That's just fucked.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:46 PM
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I mean, anybody can get a cheese grater and go defile the pastry case.

Really? Thanks, dad!


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:47 PM
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Did these other creepy stories result in expulsion? (Mine did.)


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:48 PM
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15: I know it's off-topic (now), but I love the idea that SdB is a GURPS player.


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:51 PM
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I actually know a much grosser story that did not result in expulsion, as the criminal bathroom-user was never caught, but I shan't describe it. I will only say that it's similar to 100, but was committed by a woman in my all-female dorm.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:52 PM
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Well, one more comment...almost forgot about this, but I've found yet ANOTHER woman for Ogged. If he doesn't jump on this one, there's really just no hope for the man:

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/w4m/431403291.html


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:53 PM
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108: Yeah, it seems decidedly correct that GURPS would be his system of choice.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:54 PM
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Why is it that when we hear "smeared with feces" we think "gross", but when we hear "smeared with menses" we think "questioning conventional notions of feminity and pushing the boundaries of art"?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:54 PM
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110: Come on, you just put that up yourself.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:55 PM
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Nobody at [ insane, out of control party-riffic state school I briefly attended ] did those things, per se, but I did know some people who had torn pretty much all the fixtures out of the bathroom on their floor of the dorm by the end of the year one year. Seemed counterproductive to me, but then again I tore off the elevator panel in my building one night when drunk, so who am I to judge.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:55 PM
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112: We thought no such thing at the time.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:56 PM
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110: He prefers brunettes, I believe.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:56 PM
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And that, dear reader, is when I saw her wedding ring

Ogged, for the sake of your sanity, never go shopping at Costco on a Thursday late morning. I think it's yummy mummy discount day or something.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:56 PM
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110: Come on, you just put that up yourself.

I swear to God, it's real. I just searched for "Persian" in SFBay and there it was. He really has to answer that one, don't you think? He'd be nuts not to.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:56 PM
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111: I would've thought Rolemaster.

112: I had a friend who decorated his dorm room with a menstrual blood-adorned TV, topped by an endlessly spinning turntable with a barbie head spiked to it. Total art.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:57 PM
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Ogged, weren't you camped out in front of the new Whole Foods for opening day? There were probably tons of captive available women there in line with you that you should have been hitting on.


Posted by: Magpie | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:57 PM
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marcus, surely you realize that I wouldn't date anyone confused enough to want to date an Iranian guy.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:58 PM
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Destiny is calling, Ogged. In the form of SFBay Craigslist W4M ad #431403291. The time for excuses is past.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 9:59 PM
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Wait, there was a Time for Excuses?


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:00 PM
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119: I can see why you would, but I think not quite: they're fetishistically devoted to their own crazy cult, but pretty content to chillax with their crunchy selves and untroubled by any thought of interaction with the uniniated, unlike the occasionally creepy evangelism/colonialism of the GURPS crowd.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:01 PM
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Right, what's scary about GURPS is the 'U'. And occasionally the 'G', depending how you look at it.


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:02 PM
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they're fetishistically devoted to their own crazy cult, but pretty content to chillax with their crunchy selves and untroubled by any thought of interaction with the uniniated

We're still talking about Ogged, right?


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:03 PM
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I remember how ANGRY I was about GURPS: Mage as a pretentious fifteen years old. Like, really seriously deeply and personally offended.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:04 PM
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Certainly not, Ogged has always welcomed the uniniated, IYKWIM, AIDTYD.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:05 PM
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126: I always imagined Ogged as more of a LARP-type.


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:05 PM
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That's hilarious, L-ROC. I was pretty fucking dorky in my roleplaying phase, but never that bad. Holy waitaminute: did you play LIVE ACTION Mage?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:06 PM
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Only peripherally, although the group I played with got pretty LARPy.

That said, as totally gay for MAGE as I was, true to form the Technocracy were always my favorite, and I was overjoyed when their books started coming out.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:10 PM
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Wait, there was a Time for Excuses?

Ecclesiastes 3, look it up.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:10 PM
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Oh my god, I loved Rolemaster. But it was so complicated I don't think we ever managed to play a campaign through. It was great to read the rulebook and generate characters though. Do grownups play role playing games?

You know, if Ogged answers that ad he has like an 80% chance of getting laid. He'll remember how much fun sex is once he has it again.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:11 PM
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In fact, I was a hairs' breadth from picking "Void Engineer" over "Lunar Rockette". But, you know, LAME.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:12 PM
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Marcus, would you be telling a Japanese woman to answer an ad from a guy who said he had "yellow fever?"


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:12 PM
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Yes, if it was her only option.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:13 PM
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Hey, Ogged, if you're still reading this, can I relate an OBC anecdote?


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:13 PM
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131: I have no idea what that is. I mostly played Cyberpunk 2020, anime-based Champions campaigns, and (wait for it) Rolemaster. To exclude the tactical games, obvs.

Oh my fucking god I was a giant nerd in high school. It boggles the mind, it really does.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:14 PM
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Nevermind, that's a better response than I could have come up with.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:14 PM
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would you be telling a Japanese woman to answer an ad from a guy who said he had "yellow fever"?

No, 'cause an Asian fetish is just sick, whereas a Persian fetish is a sign of impeccable taste.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:14 PM
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135: I get it, I'm becoming obnoxious. Sorry.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:14 PM
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Japanese, Persian, ethnic types like that -- certainly! How else are they going to get any?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:16 PM
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133: I think McManlypants still plays pretty regularly. So does Vin Diesel. So does S/d/B. So there you go.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:16 PM
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Didn't anybody else play Gamma World?


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:16 PM
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Never apologize, never explain.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:17 PM
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I went pretty much D&D -> Shadowrun -> White Wolf stuff -> Amber Diceless, with varietal exposure to other systems through random games of stuff.

Also, what is this high school you speak of, my friend?


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:17 PM
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To exclude the tactical games, obvs.

Were you around for the glory days of SPI?

Didn't anybody else play Gamma World?

Yes! You could play it on a map of the U.S., and set a campaign in your home town. Now full of horrible mutants, as it should be!


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:18 PM
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144: Is that the one that was like really really hardcore with lots of death and "realistic" (read: insta-gib) combat and Vietnam and stuff? Or am I thinking of something else.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:19 PM
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Puts me in mind of the so-called Phantom Shitter at Big State U, who would on a given night select a bathroom in the honors dorms and festoon it (toilets, stalls, sinks, walls) with a prodigious supply of feces. Turned out he was a fifth-year Latin student.

Did he later castrate himself and join a monastery?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:20 PM
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when we hear "smeared with menses"

Menstruation has all sorts of messy side effects.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:21 PM
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I love this, from the Rolemaster Wikipedia page:

Fans of the system maintain that this adds a great deal of realism not present in many other fantasy games, and reflects the true deadliness of a well-placed strike from a weapon, even a small one such as a dagger. Death from natural weapons (such as a fist or an animal's teeth and claws) can happen but is very rare against armored combatants. Unarmored characters may very well suffer serious wounds when mauled by animals, but again this allows for more credible confrontations than in other fantasy games, where the threat posed by an "unfantastic" beast such as a wolf, grizzly bear, or tiger is considered minimal.

First of all, nice use of the word unfantastic.

Second, one must give props to a game that pays special attention to the way in which a character can be mauled by animals.

I think I had a dream once, that involved someone named Mordenkainen, but who looked a lot like Ogged (not that I know what he looks like). I think he kept making jokes, "This is my Faithful Hound, if you know what I mean."


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:22 PM
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145: ah, you are teaching me your ways. I have much to learn, clearly.

Truth is, I've dated Christian women with a strong preference for Jewish guys and its worked out just fine. But to each their own.

150: Fuck you, I'm not even clicking on that.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:22 PM
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can I relate an OBC anecdote?

Sure, but it better be good.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:22 PM
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142: That was some fine work on that thread, Emerson. Don't ever let anyone tell you different.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:22 PM
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I have watched the link in 150 like eight times today. I'm so so impressed, not only at her post-[um] poise, but at the fact that she's so cheerful under those conditions as it is. Classy lady!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:24 PM
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I knew gamers back in the analog age: "Empire" at Reed College. I had no interest.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:24 PM
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146: high school was my era. Tapered off dramatically when I got a girlfriend and pretty much quit outright when I started smoking pot.

I did not play SPI games, no. Ogre, Car Wars, Advanced Squad Leader, uh... shit, I don't remember. You know, the things with the hexes and the basement and the 2 liters of generic Cola and the mountains of Hostess snacks and the shitty cassette dubs of the Terminator soundtrack on loop. You know the ones.

Starfleet Battles was where I drew the line.

Last year at school I was reminiscing about high school and this guy said "dude, we should totally play Axis and Allies!" No sir, we most certainly should not. Try and get me to play hackey sack, why don't you.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:24 PM
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when we hear "smeared with menses" we think "questioning conventional notions of feminity and pushing the boundaries of art"?

We do? No. We do not.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:25 PM
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it certainly seems like some fellas did a whole lot more flirting when I was still married and they were sufficiently confident I wouldn't be taking them seriously.

It certainly seems I got hit on a lot more (and a lot more seriously) by women when I was taken and thus could be construed to be non-creepy and likely disease-free.

max
['Ogged should wear a ring!']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:26 PM
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More on Empire. I had no idea that I was ignoring a major trend.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:26 PM
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I recommend that everyone just pretend, to themselves, that they have a totally rad but perhaps sexually underwhelming life-partner at home during all flirting interactions. Come across as uncreepy, and then, when s/he is practically in your lap, think, "ZOMG! I'm single!" and then go for it.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:29 PM
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Do any Unfoggeders play Dwarf Fortress?


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:29 PM
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161: Everyone who is actually single, I should say.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:29 PM
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I love the word "menses".

As Lichtenberg once said, "Months of cares. Menses curarum. My vagina has them."


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:30 PM
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157: Does the phrase "grim darkness of the far future" ring any bells for you?


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:31 PM
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157: I don't understand, you went so far as to play Starfleet Battles, but no further? Or you took a look at S.B. and said, "not for me?"

I remember Starfleet Battles because it took so long to turn around. You'd get one chance to fire your photon torpedoes, and then it took an hour while you performed an elaborate 3-point turn to get back so you could fire again.


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:32 PM
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Shadowrun! Car Wars! Axis and Allies!

Monty Python in the background. 2-Liters of Mountain Dew. Special dice in leather pouches.

Oh, god.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:34 PM
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165: heh. Didn't play it more than like once or twice. Dug the miniatures, though.

I think my last great obsession that could be sated through a game store was the Paranoia CCG. Now that, that was a hell of a game.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:34 PM
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251 is me almost exactly, except with extra emphasis on trying to convince people to play Advanced Third Reich. And Paranoia! Did no one else play Paranoia? Attn: citizen: The Computer is your friend! Good times.
Speaking of geekdom, my handle was originally taken from a relatively obscure SJG publication.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:36 PM
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161: Everyone who is actually single, I should say.

Indeed.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:37 PM
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I can't wait for this thread to reach 251 comments.

And yeah, I second the Greatness of Paranoia motion. Keep your laser handy.


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:38 PM
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I don't understand, you went so far as to play Starfleet Battles, but no further? Or you took a look at S.B. and said, "not for me?"

I saw my friends going down that path, and I stood athwart the bridge and shouted "Abort! Abort!"

167: relive it, man. Turn a painful memory into a routine one.

One of my friends I used to roleplay with had the most appallingly fucked up life. Inevitably, his characters would have no taste for adventure. In-game, he had no greater desire than to find the right [ girl, boy, elf, robot ] and settle down to a quiet, prosperous life. That's not how it works, we would say. But he was intent.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:38 PM
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maybe you old people are weird, or have a different idea of flirting from what i am familiar with.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:38 PM
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Why can't it be both?


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:40 PM
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Ooh, I take back what I said about SPI. We used to play a lot of the various incarnations of "Sniper!"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:42 PM
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167: Have you met any adult gamers? They're all dorks.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:42 PM
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Obviously, 174 was the time for a joke about Mordenkainen's Disjunction.


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:42 PM
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Jesus I can't stop talking about this now. WHY, L-ROC, WHY?!?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:43 PM
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167 s/b 172


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:43 PM
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I meant relive it here, now, by talking about it. Like PTSD therapy, you understand. I didn't mean actually play the games, crazy.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:44 PM
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L-ROC.


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:44 PM
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My brother and I played Car Wars and Axis and Allies. Drove my parents nuts. In the background, Koyanisqaatsi. It's like our co-adolescence was one long project in making our folks think we were insane.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:44 PM
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I don't mean to hate, but Axis&Allies was a crutch, for people who couldn't handle Diplomacy.

Car Wars was great, though, until you sneezed and all the little paper counters went flying over the place. If I go back to my childhood room and look under the furniture, I still find those little bastards.


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:47 PM
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Diplomacy was good stuff. I'm not enough of a liar, though, to really make it work.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:50 PM
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1) Paranoia was awesome!!!!
2) I want to write something long and pretentious and introspective about how clearly 4th Ed D&D hype/marketing stuff/propaganda shows the influence of MMOs, and also how pervasive the influence of AD&D metaphysics and conceptions are in, ie, WoW, but I won't.
3) All things considered, I'll taking being a WoW nerd over being a Burner, y'all haters.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:51 PM
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OT: but on the subject of the other day...

I noticed that this week's Tell Me You Love Me had a rather obvious crying after sex scene...


Posted by: McKingford | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:52 PM
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I played so many fucking games in beat-up mobile homes in the middle of South Dakota winters, constantly jockeying for status among the nerds (god, especially when there was a girl around). The chipboard panelling had holes, the carpet stank, the electric heater always smelled from the accumulated dust they had to labor under. The kitchen counters were covered in fast food bags, molding bowls of refried beans, and empty cigarette packs, and everyone cursed the late arrival who brought the outside air in.

Good times.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:52 PM
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Oh for god's sake, people. You flirt when you're coupled (or flirt with people who are coupled) because the anxiety is much lessened and you can just let them know you think they're cute without freaking out about "what if they reject me? what if they don't?" It's a game where suddenly the anxiety about winning and losing is completely gone.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:53 PM
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Okay, a different question: has anyone here played Diplomacy by email? (Highly recommended, once you get around the somewhat-arcane manner of interacting with the automated judges.)


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:53 PM
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I believe I have previously revealed that I played with toy mice as a kid. I was never really that interested in dolls/action figures, though, and played with the mice mostly because my sister did and had transformers and stuff like that mostly because my friends did. I don't think I stopped playing with either kind of toy for gender reasons; I just got bored.

I also still have some small handicraft coin purse-like thing I made when I was about 8 or 9 at a birthday party to which I was either the only boy invited, or the only boy to accept an invitation.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:57 PM
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188: Also, if they get all weird and stalkerish you can just threaten to sic their significant others on them!


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:57 PM
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3) All things considered, I'll taking being a WoW nerd over being a Burner, y'all haters.

I certainly wasn't offering to trade.

Art, naked people, drugs, and music versus little digital monster dudes and privileged access to the next Leeeeeeroy meme: it's a near thing, I admit.

But hey, no need for me to defend my recreational choices. Burn it down, man! Burn it all!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 10:59 PM
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188: we all know that, I think, B.

187: yes! This is good! Visualize the experience! Did anybody have a crappy ponytail? Was the sofa totally stained? Imagine you're there again.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:01 PM
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188: but thats the fun of it. Its like enjoying poker if you're not playing for any money.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:02 PM
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Nobody in my circle would play any of the Risk/A&A/Diplomacy games with me. They'd play among themselves, sure, but I was banned from any game that required deals.

187:Girls around a gaming table? I'm raising my kids in South Dakota, no question.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:06 PM
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So a follow-up question -- would anyone be interested in playing an Unfogged-only game of Diplomacy-by-email?


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:07 PM
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Mullets, plastic-rimmed large-lensed glasses, and oh so much acid-washed denim. The couch was not stained, because it was pleather. It was however, torn, with the occasional cigarette burn. Our gaming table was a turned over cable spool.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:07 PM
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196: I've never played Diplomacy, but it sounds like fun.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:08 PM
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I don't think I ever played a Risk game that ended. We'd play for 3 or 4 hours and then someone would have to go home. The last game I played I think I spent the last half hour sending my armies out from Central Asia to cause as much havoc as I could before I had to leave. Castle Risk and Diplomacy never caught on among my friends, but we played a few times.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:09 PM
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196: In theory, though I haven't played since I was like 14.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:09 PM
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195: Dude, my sister just named her kid Chi/valry for Christ's fucking sake. The dork blood runs strong in the Dakotas, man.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:10 PM
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Your nephew or niece is going to be the subject of a lot of uninteresting jokes regarding his or her death.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:11 PM
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It's not the nudity or the art or the drugs or the music per se that I object to, but really the combination of them.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:11 PM
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We got our parents to play Axis & Allies with us exactly once. It took five hours, and after that, there was no more bitching in our house about how young people have short attention spans.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:11 PM
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My father accused me of cheating at Risk, once. Insisted that I had some sort of special dice-throwing technique to consistently get sixes, else I wouldn't win so consistently.

God, I hated that man.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:13 PM
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Well, that came out bleak. Night all.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:15 PM
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Sweet dreams of bacon, Chopper.


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:16 PM
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Comeliness would be an awkward name.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:16 PM
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We got our parents to play Axis & Allies with us exactly once.

I got my mother to give it to me for Christmas, but I never even got her to play it. To this day, it has never been played.

These nerdy teen years sound way fun.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:16 PM
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196: The time I tried e-mail diplomacy too many people dropped out as their fortunes waned. I'm not sure I see a solution to that problem, although I always enjoy playing to the bitter end. I'll wheel-and-deal with one supply center.

As for all of you game geek wannabes, I'm not bragging or anything, but in the last month I purchased on Ebay a copy of Avalon Hill's out-of-print Revoluationary War game, 1776.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:25 PM
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208: Comeliness would have been a great seventh attribute in AD&D.


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:33 PM
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190: The mice that were a couple of inches high, dressed in cute little clothes, possibly made with fur from some real creature (though around sensitive, animal-loving kids the question was neither asked for answered) with pipe cleaners as sort of vestigal legs? Yep, had a bunch of those.


Posted by: Magpie | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:35 PM
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212: Right, they had varied outfits? The fur was rabbit fur. I don't remember pipe cleaner legs, but they did stand up *somehow*. My sister collected them.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:36 PM
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I don't remember ever knowing where the fur came from, but those sound like the mice. My sister had a dollhouse we'd put them in (but no dolls, if I remember right).


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:40 PM
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211: Someone didn't play First Edition.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:41 PM
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215: Only if you had Unearthed Arcana, right?

I always loved the (elaborate) rules for spelunking in that book.


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:47 PM
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Or maybe I'm confusing that with the Dungeoneer's Guide, shit.

U.A. had ... the little level-0 spells, right? Cantrips?


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:48 PM
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Cantrips?

The less-barbaric caltrops.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:50 PM
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217: And Cavaliers and Barbarians.

One of my friend's barbecues unexpectedly sprouted a game of Illuminati. Fun stuff.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:53 PM
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And we've come full circle, back to Car Wars.


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:54 PM
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Who are you people? Why weren't you playing crappy punk music in garages, sneaking cigarettes in the suburban drainage ditches, and running away from home for hours—hours, I tell you—at a time? Do I even know you?!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:55 PM
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Everyone loves Uncle Schmalbert!


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:57 PM
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221: I grew up in NC -- there were no need to sneak cigarettes, starting in about the 6th grade. The rebellious thing to do was to not smoke. Or maybe smoke cloves, those were pretty hott.


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:58 PM
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217: Good lord, I just remembered a debate I had with Mrs. Pfootball, a decade ago when we were moving cross-country, over whether I would throw away my AD&D books.

Apparently I won the debate, because I am gazing upon my copy of Unearthed Arcana as I write. arthegall, you correctly identified your error about spelunking, and you are right that cantrips were introduced to the game in U.A.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-26-07 11:59 PM
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Goddamn it, I lent my copy of Unearthed Arcana to someone who then promptly moved away. I'm never going to get that back. All I have are my memories.

Fortunately, I've managed to keep my lady-friend from throwing away the box (well, two boxes) of old D&D books I've got stashed in the corner of the apartment. I hold a special place in my heart for the AD&D (1st ed.) Dungeon Master's Guide (not the compromised 2nd ed. draft, of course).


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 12:04 AM
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223: Point taken, arthegall. But cloves are really awful, now that we're adults. Right? Right?!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 12:05 AM
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No one else is going to cop to playing Star Fleet Battles, huh?


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 12:05 AM
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I grew up in NC -- there were no need to sneak cigarettes

Certainly not. The smoking area outside the cafeteria would have hundreds of kids crowded into it. Nobody would ever have believed that one day store clerks would ask for an ID for cigarettes.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 12:06 AM
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228 "ask" s/b ""ask""

Years later, when I finally smoked my first cigarette, I was so surprised -- "so this is why everyone was doing that!"


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 12:10 AM
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225: Ebay, baby. I loaned out my copy of 1776 25 years ago and have bitterly rued it ever since. I actually played the game a few months ago (for about the second time in 20 years), and realized that my life just wouldn't be right without a copy gathering dust in my closet.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 12:11 AM
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There were no need?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 12:15 AM
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I've mostly dealt with my throwing-books-away angst by acquiring illicit PDF copies of basically every mid-90s indie (and not so indie) RPG ever, which in terms of compensation to the original writers is ethically no different from eBay. Demonoid is especially, almost terrifyingly, good for this.


Posted by: Lunar Rockette | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 12:16 AM
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231: It were the South. That were the way we talk.


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 12:17 AM
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221: The scenarios you imagine are not necessarily exclusive: I snuck cigarettes plenty, and put in many hours at Gilman, but Illuminatus? Fuck yeah. Steve Jackson rocks harder than green day ever did.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 12:25 AM
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232: Wow. Somehow this never occurred to me. A quick Google has supplied me with the orginal 6 D&D books - the three included in the original game box, and the first three supplements: Greyhawk, Blackmoor and Eldritch Wizardry.

I had been eyballing them on Ebay for awhile, but there was no way I could justify paying, say, 200 bucks for the lot.

I'm closer to my second childhood than my first one, but I'm looking forward to being an old geezer with time on his hands, drawing lines in pencil on graph paper.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 12:55 AM
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hundreds of kids crowded into it.

Even my high school in DC had a senior lounge where kids were allowed to smoke. They eliminated it just as I became a senior, probably around '84. Still, (seniors(seniors who smoked)) meant tens of kids hanging out there, not hundreds.


Posted by: cw | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 2:44 AM
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I hope this tired old man thing is a phase

I wonder this about people having affairs at this stage of life. How could they keep up the energy and the interest? Yeah, like you B. I'm impressed - I just don't have the energy or the emotional dexterity to navigate any more relationships than I've already got.

I have this feeling about other people regularly, but I can say it generally ends at the edge of my family. I don't feel it about my kids, at all. Whether I feel it about my wife depends on how bad the mood is and where our relationship is in its ebb and flow.


Posted by: cw | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 3:08 AM
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227: SFB daunted me. Played a bunch of netrek, though.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 3:19 AM
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171, 185: Trust the Computer!


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 5:54 AM
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Also, fellow Troubleshooters, the author of The Yellow Clearance Black-Box Blues was none other than the awesome John M. Ford, also inventor of much of Klingon culture and the author of a song-n-dance Star Trek novel. Plus the best poem about 9/11 bar none and innumerable occasional sonnets.


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 6:00 AM
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125, 127: Actually, GURPS really stands for Great Unnamed Roleplaying System. The acronym stuck so firmly during development that they had to come up with a convincing cover name. Generic Universal, my patootie.


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 6:22 AM
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NetTrek! The most trouble I ever got into in high school was when we hijacked the yearbook room for hours on end to play NetTrek.

I played a ton of AD&D in high school, but I was always stuck being the DM. Sigh. On the other hand, drawing maps on graph paper is maybe the most fun kind of imagination ever.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 6:30 AM
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I can't believe y'all want me to give up Whole Foods

Wait wait wait, let's back this thing right back up. What crazy fucker wants you to give up Whole Foods?


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 7:07 AM
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We used to sneak into the labs at MIT to play xtrek when I was in HS.

Why weren't you playing crappy punk music in garages, sneaking cigarettes in the suburban drainage ditches, and running away from home for hours--hours, I tell you--at a time? Do I even know you?!

I pretty much waited until I got done with high school to do these things, but when I got there I made up for lost time. There were no drainage ditches or garages involved, though: our tastes in Boston ran to dilapidated ghetto victorians.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 7:15 AM
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Wait wait wait, let's back this thing right back up. What crazy fucker wants you to give up Whole Foods?

Well, I sort of do, though I know that ogged is a hopeless case. Here are the reasons:

(1.) I am kind of crazy, and their health insurance provides no mental health benefits.

(2.) Their labor practices are appalling, not quite as bad as Wal-MArt but nearly. They are virulently anti-union

and (3.) they fired me.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 7:36 AM
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Kind of crazy

You are just saying that to turn Apo on.

BG:

In the unsolicited, probably unwelcome advice area, you are way to hard on yourself.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 7:39 AM
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I cannot even spell.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 7:47 AM
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188: Yeah, I'm a rotten flirt in person, but I flirt and am flirted with much more since being married. It's like flirting with a safety net -- you screw up, and you can always bounce back to "Dude, I was kidding! Married."

196: If enough people were interested, and someone else did all the work, I'd play.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 7:55 AM
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Yeah, I'm a rotten flirt in person, but I flirt and am flirted with much more since being married. It's like flirting with a safety net -- you screw up, and you can always bounce back to "Dude, I was kidding! Married."

It really is a lot of fun to flirt when you have no intention of trying to get in the other person's pants. But, wow, it really is important to make sure it is clear that it isnt going anywhere. (I think this topic has been beaten to death here before.)


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 7:58 AM
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245- When I go to Whole Paycheck, I'm slightly uncomfortable when every employee greets me while shopping. I start thinking that it's mandated by management.


Posted by: terpbball | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:06 AM
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Mullets, plastic-rimmed large-lensed glasses, and oh so much acid-washed denim

Hipster Finns, although you could find hipster Swedes wearing more or less the same thing.

It really kind of depresses me that the marks of my childhood misery--the coke-bottle glasses, the impossible-to-grow-out hair, etc--have been recaptured by the marketplace as desirable hipster fashion. But that's what happens when you aestheticize politics, I guess.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:11 AM
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245- When I go to Whole Paycheck, I'm slightly uncomfortable when every employee greets me while shopping. I start thinking that it's mandated by management.

That doesn't happen at the one here.

It really is a lot of fun to flirt when you have no intention of trying to get in the other person's pants. But, wow, it really is important to make sure it is clear that it isnt going anywhere.

Your job may lead you to overestimate the percentage of times in which it goes anywhere.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:24 AM
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252:

Yes, my anecdotal evidence would suggest that 80 percent of people are getting it on regularly with someone other than their spouse.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:26 AM
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You are just saying that to turn Apo on.

It's working.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:27 AM
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221: Gilman wouldn't have me and the smoking never took. Did a lot of late-night sneaking out to Denny's, though.


Posted by: Magpie | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:28 AM
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I think that the real point of extra-marital flirting is that if both marriages go south at the same time, both partners have another option right there. Statistically, simultaneous collapse of two unrelated relationships is not really unlikely, especially if "simultaneous" is interpreted as "within a given year."


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:33 AM
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Gilman seemed like the most romantic place on earth when I was a kid. All those flyers in the Rancid CD booklets...


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:33 AM
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Statistically, simultaneous collapse of two unrelated relationships is not really unlikely, especially if "simultaneous" is interpreted as "within a given year."

Also, the collapse of one marriage can be the tipping point in the collapse of the other.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:35 AM
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Also, the collapse of one marriage can be the tipping point in the collapse of the other.

And a tremendous boost to the economy. Realtors get some money, new furniture must be bought, gym memberships get renewed, lawyers get paid, private investigators get money, therapist and mental health professionals get more clients....the list goes on.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:39 AM
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And a tremendous boost to the economy.

Why, it's practically a civic duty.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:42 AM
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I can't believe that I missed the RPG thread.

I will admit to playing SFB, but no more than 10-20 times. The problem was that I wasn't willing to put the energy in to play against the real obsessives, and it's hard to find other casual SFB players. I do recommend the Tournament Tactics Book as good reading (I have no idea whether or not the advice is helpful, but the writing is good).

I also think I'm the only admitted GURPS player on unfogged, so watch what you say about us. There's a limit on how far you can go in making fun of groups that you don't belong to.

L-roc, I can understand being annoyed at the GURPS/WW conversions, but I will say that, as a rule, SJG attracts better people to write for them than any other game company. I've barely played a GURPS game in years, but when I look at the people who are writing for 4E . . . Ken Hite, Bill Stoddard, Sean Punch, David Pulver, these are all-stars.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:43 AM
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241: Sorry Doug, I posted my comment before reading the whole thread, I didn't realize there was another GURPS player here.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:45 AM
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Why, it's practically a civic duty.

Apo, you are a great American patriot.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:46 AM
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259: Don't forget the alcohol. Nothing like a really dry martini to soothe the wounded spirit.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:47 AM
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Don't forget the alcohol. Nothing like a really dry martini to soothe the wounded spirit.

Good catch Di. I also forgot the underwear manufacturers. Everyone buys new underwear when they get separated.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:49 AM
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199: Two of my creepiest experiencea ever involved boardgames like this. One, a game of "Risk" with a group of people who took it so seriously that when we went out to the bar afterwards, one of them started a fistfight in the car and wound up getting maced when we arrived at our destination. Two, playing "Axis and Allies" with a group of (it turned out) crypt-Nazi German students in a University dorm, one of whom kept going on about the Treaty of Versailles and how the mollycoddled French had really started WWI. Come to think of it, I haven't played either game since.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:52 AM
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The 'Broken Marriages' theory of economic activity?


Posted by: the Other Paul | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:52 AM
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Oh, heck, one more GURPS comment. A lot of my affection for GURPS comes from reading the GURPSnet mailing list in college (when I was barely gaming at all, and missing it) and that was a really impressive group of people.

I think GURPS skews older in it's demographic and has relatively high bariers to entry which means that higher percentage of GURPS players are obsessive, creepy older gamer dudes. But I think, in fact, that a smaller portion of it's older, serious players are creepy. It also attracts a number of high-achieving, seriously geeky, interesting thoughtful, polite older players. At least judging by mid-90s GURPSnet.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:53 AM
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I meant "crypto-Nazi," but "crypt-Nazi" is better.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:53 AM
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265: And toy manufacturers, too -- no better way to compete for the kiddos' affection than with expensive gifts.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:56 AM
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The 'Broken Marriages' theory of economic activity?

Quick, get Dsquared. Let's write a paper.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:58 AM
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Nothing like a really dry martini to soothe the wounded spirit.

Is there definitely a divorce boost here? The stereotypical life of quiet desperation is well-lubricated. Also, bourbon beats gin.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 8:59 AM
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Yeah, whereas a case of beer is more likely to cause the wounded spirit to blow holes in the walls with a shotgun, or drive 80 mph the wrong way on a one-way street. Yay martinis!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 9:09 AM
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Stop changed the subject! Let's have the games get more and more obscure.

Any "Traveller" fans? Little black books, titles in orange? Designing your own starship? Although that one is not so obscure, I guess.

Also, this is one I'd love to get a copy of, but I can't find anywhere. It's an old SPI game, hex-map and cardboard counters, called "Invasion: America". It's a real cold war relic. China, Russia, and Cuba invade the U.S. from three sides. The cover has a picture of the hammer and sickle being raised over the Statue of Liberty.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 9:10 AM
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274: I never played I:A but I have fond memories of Fortress America which was very similar.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 9:24 AM
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It's an old SPI game, hex-map and cardboard counters, called "Invasion: America".

That sounds a lot like Fortress America, one of the Milton Bradley Gamemaster (?) games -- a surprisingly interesting set of games for a mainstream boardgame company. A fun game to play once or twice, but not one I'd want to own.

Has anyone played Titan (Avalon Hill's "Fantasy Monster Slugathon")? What about AH's War of the Roses game, Kingmaker?


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 9:27 AM
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Let's have the games get more and more obscure

Anyone ever play Junta? Bribe and intrigue your way into the dictatorship of a Latin American banana republic.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 9:28 AM
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Anyone ever play Junta?

No, but I wanted to.

Several copies of Junta were given away as door prizes at the local gaming convention, but I never won one.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 9:30 AM
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The thing with Invasion America was that it had that trademark SPI attention to detail and "realism". Huge, richly detailed map, lots of complex rules. So you'd find yourself agonizing about whether the northern Appalachians could provide sufficient defensive cover to hold off the Soviet tank armies from overrunning your airbases in the upper Midwest. It really gave that heady feeling of being the supreme commander of North America, which was my highest ambition as a kid.

Yeah, I played War of the Roses too, that had that Diplomacy-style backstabbing quality to it. But it was always a little too political and not quite combat-oriented enough for me. I was a bloodthirsty little boy.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 9:33 AM
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Long as we're throwing game-geek stuff about:
Dave "Wormy" Trampier, located.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 9:34 AM
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Dave "Wormy" Trampier, located.

Wow, does this mean someone might be able to get permission to re-print the Wormy cartoons in book form? I would buy multiple copies.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 9:37 AM
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Here we go, the net is awesome.

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/21160
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/186868?size=large


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 9:38 AM
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272: Is there definitely a divorce boost here? The stereotypical life of quiet desperation is well-lubricated. Also, bourbon beats gin.

Well, sure. And it's not unfathomable to think that dry martinis or bourbon or cases of beer led to some of the married flirtation that led to some of the recreation that led to some of the dissolution. But, in addition to the drinking as salve to wounded spirit, the newly single must also add in drinking in hopes of meeting someone. Plus there are the contented friends who generously take up added drinking in support of the newly single. Plus the additional singles drinking that naturally accompanies the sudden advent of child-free every other weekends ("Hey, I don't have to be responsible for Jr. tonight -- I can get drunk!")

Really, newly single life is much, much more lubricated than married life.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 9:50 AM
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Really, newly single life is much, much more lubricated than married life.

And people drink more alcohol too!


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 9:53 AM
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Junta is awesome. Not that I was ever any good at it - I was far to eager to fuck over the people who were supposed to be my allies. But you have to play it with even tempered friends, because the effect on players' temper make Risk feel like playing bridge with my old maid aunts.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 9:54 AM
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284 is funny.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 9:56 AM
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the collapse of one marriage can be the tipping point in the collapse of the other.

Hi, honey? I just filed for divorce and my soon-to-be-ex kicked me out of the house! I'll be over with a van full of my stuff in an hour! Tra la la!


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 10:00 AM
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the sudden advent of child-free every other weekends

As the saying goes, give me shared custody, hold the divorce.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 10:01 AM
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Hi, honey? I just filed for divorce and my soon-to-be-ex kicked me out of the house! I'll be over with a van full of my stuff in an hour! Tra la la!

I am telling you people divorced women in their 30s and 40s have voracious sexual appetites. They shall not be denied.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 10:01 AM
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give me the voracious sexual appetite, hold the divorce.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 10:12 AM
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How about that Dan Savage rule, where if you're in a low-sex marriage, you can tell your spouse 'Ok, no worries. But just to let you know, I'll be getting some on the outside'. Can that work?


Posted by: terpbball | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 10:14 AM
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Can that work?

It can, but usually doesn't.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 10:16 AM
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But, in addition to the drinking as salve to wounded spirit, the newly single must also add in drinking in hopes of meeting someone.

I can verify that. I have never met anyone by sitting home drinking and cursing the darkness.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 10:18 AM
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261, 262: Playtested the very first version of GURPS; that's how I got the name story. Haven't really played much since, alas. Am an admitted SJ fan, though, having bought Ogre as an original microgame from Metagaming and spent some time in a terrific Fantasy Trip campaign. Also, if anyone was present for the llama phenomenon on the INWO mailing list, I was a prime instigator.

274: Traveller, yay! The first RPG I ever owned. Spent way too much time rolling up star systems from later supplements and then not writing bestselling novels set in them. Only later looked skeptically at the militaristic assumptions behind the history and social setup. Still, meson accelerators and ablat armor, w00t! (Played I:A once, I think. Somebody's older brother was the SPI geek, at a time when a three or four age difference was a serious cognitive advantage.)

276: Titan is one of the all-time greats. It also seems to attract people who extend it in one way or another. I'll send you my charts if you promise not to think that's too geeky. Plus the game has been ported to Java with decent AIs for the opposition, resulting in a ginormous time sink. Still, yay slugathon!

Kingmaker I remember as being too easy to stalemate. Maybe we weren't backstabbing enough or had too few players. On the other hand WotR=stalemate.

277, 278: Junta also rocked. Anyone here play Kremlin? The AH game where the goal was to control the General Secretary for three waves at the October parade? Purge your rivals! Send enemies to Siberia! Recover at the sanatorium!

Illuminati was already praised above, so no need to go on too much more about it, other than to say that my group wore out at least two complete sets.

And Nuclear War, how can we overlook Nuclear War? Draw Skippy and get 25,000,000!

I may be the only person here who primarily thinks of Civilisation as a board game. Mainly because I didn't own a computer at the time when the Civ computer games would have swallowed my brain whole. Still, it's a terrific board game if you have twelve hours to spare.

And the Call of Cthulhu roleplaying game? The original Runequest?

Uh-oh, it looks like I could go on about this for hours. Best not.


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 10:31 AM
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Kingmaker I remember as being too easy to stalemate

Exactly.

And I loved Runequest! Crazy complicated fantasy RPG systems with lots of character types, magic systems, and spells were the best.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 10:36 AM
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Kingmaker is designed to stalemate. Eventually the entire nobility exterminates itself, which is pretty much historically accurtate.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 10:39 AM
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Will, you're right that I am too hard on myself, but I don't really think taht I'n crazy, crazy. I'm just saying that I've had mental health issues.

It was a little bit of a joke aimed at strasmangelo. I don't think that it's at all dumb or crazy to hate on Whole Foods, and part of the reason is that they don't provide mental health benefits for us crazies.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 10:46 AM
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We instituted single-death for nobles to counter the stalemate problem in Kingmaker. Pretty much every serious game of Diplomacy I ever played (and I played a lot) stalemated, but we generally understood who the de facto winner was.

With the exception of some extreme D&D situations, I've never played a game that created more hostility among players than Diplomacy.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 10:52 AM
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I've never played a game that created more hostility among players than Diplomacy.

Try Junta.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 10:59 AM
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Wait wait wait, let's back this thing right back up. What crazy fucker wants you to give up Whole Foods?

Keep up, stras. Some of us (ahem) have been broken records on the union-busting evils of Whole Foods. Their crappy treatment of BG is only the latest reason to boycott.

Plus, I think ogged will have much better luck getting dates by standing in front of WF with flyers explaining why it sucks. He'll get to cruise all the women going in and he'll look like he cares about people are treated. And of course there are dumpsters for employing the alarm clock dodge.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 11:08 AM
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ogged will have much better luck getting dates by standing in front of WF with flyers explaining why it sucks

Somebody doesn't have my best interest at heart.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 11:12 AM
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Ogged does not want a date, Sir Kraab. he's come over to my side. You just don't seem to be very sensitive to the nuances of male communication.

I suggested organizing a WF boycott through Unfogged, but it didn't fly. Easy for me to say, I doubt that there's a WF within 100 miles.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 11:17 AM
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Someone would have told me if shopping at Fairway was wrong, right? Not that I do it much, but for special occasions.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 11:19 AM
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Whadya mean, ogged? Wrongshore told you how much sex he got just by telling the laydeez about his heroic anti-corporate efforts.

The fact that your doing this would serve my political agenda is merely a happy coincidence.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 11:19 AM
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297- BG- Which MH benies are restricted? Coun/sel/ing?

300- That's a good one, SK. Or how about sitting in on one of those omelet cooking workshops?


Posted by: terpbball | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 11:19 AM
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I'm not trying to get him a date, Emerson, just sex.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 11:20 AM
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In a dumpster, possibly.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 11:21 AM
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Ogged should have dropped an alarm clock in that woman's shopping bag.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 11:25 AM
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Kingmaker is designed to stalemate. Eventually the entire nobility exterminates itself, which is pretty much historically accurtate.

Somewhere else on these www boards someone was talking about that new book De Luxe or Luxury or whatever it's called—but isn't the narrative recounted therein essentially the same as that in the Phenomenology about the entry into the marketplace of the nobility in France?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 11:26 AM
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In a dumpster, possibly.

The one behind WF?


Posted by: terpbball | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 11:27 AM
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Can we be sure that Ogged even wants sex?

Teo, w-lfs-n, Ogged, even AWB. Everyone is falling into my web. B. is going to be a tough nut to crack, though.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 11:32 AM
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311: You've met my men, you know I'm no fool.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 11:45 AM
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297 & 300: Another reason for hatred is they have the smallest, most crowded, insanely laid-out parking lot around here. It's a slow-motion demolition derby venue.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 11:46 AM
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Cabrona! I worry about those guys, though.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 11:50 AM
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314: Heh. I dare you to tell the boyfriend that you worry about him next time you meet. He won't even let *me* do that.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 11:53 AM
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281: Naah, apparently (according to his wikipedia article) he basically never wants to talk to game-geek types again.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 11:55 AM
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Give me his address. I'm intervening.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 11:57 AM
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Oh, I'm sure he'd welcome that.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 12:04 PM
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comments 110, 121, 135 clearly demonstrate that Ogged has joined the no-sex, no-relationship camp.

Although I never got straight whether Emerson was down on sex or just relationships. One does tend to lead to the other, I guess.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 12:34 PM
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If you liked Runequest, particularly the built-world aspect, you should try to get your hands on this computer game. No animation, just (very well done) still screens, but totally immersive and addictive in a uniquely "feels like roleplaying" way.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 12:37 PM
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Under the right circumstances I can be against almost anything.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 4:19 PM
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I can't believe no one has yet pointed out that she threw up her hands and said she can't choose! Wedding ring or not, she likes to have more than one.


Posted by: wiland | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 4:43 PM
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I love how this thread slowly displaced sex with gaming. Hmm. The gamer dichotomy.


Posted by: DAG | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 4:44 PM
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The runequest II games were very well written. It was my favorite of the RPGs.

I even bought the video game M/tch M/lls links to above. That video game was very cool but really hard to play the heroquesting portions. Plus, all your peasants would get sullen if you didn't do certain morally abhorrent actions.

The husband and wife team that made the video game quit their jobs to produce it. They were hoping to sell the video game to another company to produce the fight scenes but it didn't pan out.

I am going to try to dig out my copy.


Posted by: joeo | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 6:38 PM
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297- BG- Which MH benies are restricted? Coun/sel/ing?

Um, no terpball. There is zero coverage for mental health. Drugs for which you have a prescription can be filled, but no money from their health plan (as opposed to one's personal wellness account) can ever be used to pay a psychiatrist or for treatment for any mental health condition. Basically, if you're hearing voices, and seeing things, and it isn't caused by a brain tumor, your medical bills won't be paid.

Labor Dept. Regs require a certain amount of parity for mental health treatment for employer-based healthcare. (Self-insured plans are regulated by the Feds, so State mandated-benefit laws don't apply.) The easy way to get out of parity is to avoid covering it at all.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-27-07 9:08 PM
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323: And then sex made an unexpected comeback. Along with mental health issues.

Things that make you go hmmm.

Hmmm.


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 09-28-07 2:05 AM
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when me and my friends had a little tiny meth lab in college we used to play the judge dredd roleplaying game to pass the time. mega city one, baby!


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 09-28-07 9:32 AM
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