Re: My true home is at Oral Roberts University

1

Kind of like the person whose spouse leaves them and suddenly they are back on the market.

"I thought I was done with dating!"


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 10:26 AM
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Oh, man is that sad about the NO academics. What on earth would they do.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 10:30 AM
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Speaking of the Republican convention in Minneapolis (what do you mean, you weren't?) it seems to me that there should be "Wide Stance" greeters in the airport when the delegates arrive.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 10:38 AM
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with hundreds of text messages sent between 1 a.m. to 3 a.m. to "underage males who had been provided phones at university expense."

Mrs Roberts was just helping them to Make Your Day Count, with "more than 100 insightful and entertaining devotionals" for teens.


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 10:40 AM
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I'm sure any academics cast adrift by ORU can find a place at Regent University or in the
federal government.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 10:48 AM
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i'm still really enjoying the use of 'stance' as slang for one's orientation


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 10:52 AM
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1 and 2: what a desperately depressing comparison


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 11:19 AM
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FL to people with tenure: do not coast.

will to married people: stay in shape.

You never know, do you?


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 11:57 AM
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I know it's a cheap thrill, but I never get tired of seeing tiresome moral scolds revealed to be as lousy as the rest of us.

That would normally be me too, but thinking of anyone with the energy to text young men between 1 and 3 am is lousing up my schadenfreude.

That's so harsh for the NO academics. I was going to say it reminded me of a prima ballerina up here a few years ago who got fired after criticising the artistic director in front of the board - what are you going to do, shop your resume around? (But I see upon looking it up that she's settled for around a million in damages, so.)


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 12:09 PM
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sending hundreds of text messages to underage men?

sounds like "athletic recruiting" to me.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 12:14 PM
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will to married people: stay in shape.

Thinking like an economist (i.e., like a mindboggling irritating robot): does it make sense for married people to purposefully deteriorate so as to signal committedness? ("Of course I love you, darling. If there were any chance I was ever going to leave you, would I have let a beer gut like this develop?")


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 12:27 PM
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Absolutely. Haven't we all heard the lists of "signs that your husband/wife is having an affair", which usually includes "has started going to the gym", "has started wearing makeup every day", "gets haircuts more often", etc.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 12:30 PM
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13

So therefore, an academic who coasts for a couple decades is signalling his loyalty to his institution.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 12:31 PM
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It would make sense if the spouse made the same costly commitment. You can't be certain of that though it does happen.


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 12:33 PM
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"Is your associate professor having an affair? Submitting more articles? Taking trips to far-off conferences?"


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 12:33 PM
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11 You have to balance that against the game-theoretical threat posed by less-committed guys going to the gym and attracting your partner away.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 12:35 PM
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Uh, minus the gender assumptions in that last statement.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 12:37 PM
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"Thinking like an economist (i.e., like a mindboggling irritating robot)"

watch it.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 12:40 PM
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She meant a delightfully irritating robot, Katherine. Anyhow I she's a lawyer; as a member of a hated profession anything she says about other hated professions can be discounted.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 12:43 PM
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Can I fall back to say that I meant "When people say 'thinking like an economist' they generally mean 'thinking like a mindbogglingly irritating robot'" rather than attempting to characterize economists as such generally? (And my apologies.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 12:46 PM
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Why are all the professors leaving NO? Given the number of calls I've seen attempting to repopulate these deserted departments, I'm inclined to say the professors are behaving irrationally: they coasted, and now are willingly leaving the only department that would have them, i.e. the one that banked on their potential all those years ago.


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 12:51 PM
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Isn't, e.g., Tulane seriously downsizing though, as a matter of post-Katrina policy?

signalling his loyalty to his institution

Credible signal, too, pissing away twenty years of productive work time. "See how much I care!" Same goes for the beer gut: it's hard to lose that thing.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 12:55 PM
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Whew. My wee hour text messaging has always been to young men 18 and over.

Also, John, I'm totally down with the Wide Stance Greeting Posse for the RNC. Let's start organizing it now.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 12:58 PM
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24

Katherine is an economist?


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 1:04 PM
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No, but she's fond of one.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 1:05 PM
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22: Tulane may be, but all the smaller schools -- UNO, for instance -- have multiple searches open at the moment.

Also, I'm commenting from WiFi at a conference at which I'm presenting in minutes. I'm tempted to leave this window open and, about halfway through my talk, hit "post" just so I can be the first person to comment on Unfogged in the middle of their own talk. (I'm assuming people have done it during others', but I could be wrong.)


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 1:08 PM
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27

In my first two years at Tulane, I had classes with five economics professors. Four of them are no longer teaching: three left for other schools, and one is on indefinite sabbatical, presumably to focus on research/publishing, presumably so he'll be able to get a job elsewhere. The department hasn't downsized, though; they've hired a bunch of freshly-credentialed Ph.D.s who were for one reason or another desperate enough to move down here.


Posted by: L. | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 1:09 PM
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Woohoo - Jack London and Spencer! Primitive man!

(If I've correctly gathered the topic of your talk. I'd love to be there.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 1:10 PM
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A colleague of mine was freshly hired at Tulane when Katrina hit. He was back there the next semester, and the university had rented living space for him and bunches of other professors on a cruise ship. He was living on a frikkin' cruise ship with all the other professors from his university. So weird.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 1:17 PM
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28: I'll be posting it later today, so you can read it sans what my wife calls my "poor Simon Schama impersonation." (I don't know when I started doing that when I read prepared notes, but she's not wrong: I pace all funny. This is what happens when you watch The History of Britain a few hundred times.)


Posted by: SEK | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 1:19 PM
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31

I wasn't serious. My husband's an economist. I do occasionally shriek at him that he's just too RATIONAL, and it's not normal.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 1:23 PM
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32

Rational economics and Craigslist advertising via Dealbreaker.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 1:35 PM
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33

29: That sounds like the set-up for a bad sitcom.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 1:39 PM
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34

Thinking like an economist (i.e., like a mindboggling irritating robot): does it make sense for married people to purposefully deteriorate so as to signal committedness? ("Of course I love you, darling. If there were any chance I was ever going to leave you, would I have let a beer gut like this develop?")

Don't know, but I have heard speculation about couples on just this basis—what does it mean when one is in much better shape than the other?


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 1:39 PM
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35

On the other hand, if ORU has to lay faculty off, where do they go?

I'm fairly confident the Justice Dept. can find a place for each and everyone of them, very close to the White House.


Posted by: tom.a | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 1:43 PM
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36

What's awesome about the link in 32 is how nakedly it exposes the argument that "women have power over men, too--the power of sex!" for what it is.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 1:43 PM
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37
Mrs. Roberts spent more than $39,000 at one Chico's clothing store alone in less than a year, and had other accounts in Texas and California. She also repeatedly said, "As long as I wear it once on TV, we can charge it off." The document cites inconsistencies in clothing purchases and actual usage on TV.

At *Chico's*?? That's pathetic.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 1:45 PM
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38

I'm having a hard time believing 32 is real, that someone would really put it that way. If the question isn't a sock puppet.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 1:48 PM
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39

There are tons of little Bible colleges out there that would be happy to hire someone from ORU. I'm sure they'll be fine.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 2:20 PM
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40

Even if 32 isn't factual, it's certainly true.


Posted by: Nbarnes | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 2:21 PM
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38: The authenticity of it is pretty much irrelevant to me. As with the married folks' beer guts discussed here, it offers an amusing application of economic/game theory to a commonly observed phenomenon.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 2:28 PM
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39: I imagine it'll be similar to what happens when a congregation fractures over an issue. They move down the street and become the New Reformed Oral Roberts University, across the street from Alliance Oral Roberts University, and two roads over from United Oral Roberts University.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 2:32 PM
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41: Move my query one step then. How much is the phenomenon actually observed, compared with commonly believed in? That there's a folklore about gold-diggers is unmistakable, and the fact I can't name any examples from my own experience may not mean anything but that I'm incurious and sheltered.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 2:44 PM
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44

People's Judaic Oral Roberts Front.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 2:53 PM
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45

43: I used to work with a woman who would talk about her explicit plans to marry rich, have two nannies, and spend her days getting manicures and at the gym. She was a pretty good lawyer, and the other ambition didn't look all that likely to be realized, but I used to make fun of her for it.

No opinion on how common it is, but I've met at least one aspiring, if unsuccessful, golddigger in the wild.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 2:57 PM
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43: Dunno. But I think it's a fairly banal observation that wealth and beauty are big motivators for people. I bet ogged's mom wishes he would marry a cute doctor.

As for how big a motivator these attitudes are, how pervasive they are, how gender-specific they are, and how they interact, well, I have to leave something as an exercise for the Unfoggetariat. Otherwise, how are y'all ever going to learn how to think about these things?


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 3:04 PM
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47

Wouldn't most people like to marry a rich person? Its just that most of the time, its too much work to find one, and you make other tradeoffs, etc


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 3:20 PM
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48

I met a grad student at Ya/le who asked me if I ever hung out at Camp/bell Apar/tment to meet rich dudes, as she would if she lived here. I have indeed been to CA, but I'm not the type who likes rich guys or is liked, generally, by rich guys. Max was an exception and his money was actually a huge problem for me.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 3:24 PM
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Of course, all else being equal, why not marry someone cute and rich, but it's how you order other priorities that determines whether or not you're a gold digger. As for the exchange in 32, Ben H. at the bandarlog says that the response was written by an attorney with ovaries.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 3:36 PM
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48: Huh. I've certainly gone there for drinks, given that it's basically in the building I work in (Bear? Why are you googleproofing a bar?), but it's never looked like much of a pickup scene. More people drinking after work. Gorgeous room, though, and excellent bar nuts.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 3:50 PM
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49: why not marry someone cute and rich

I guess I don't find money to be an unproblematic trait in a person. A great deal of money creates problems. Rich people have to spend a lot more time thinking about how to manage their money, how to use it to get what they want, how to balance an ethical life with the desire for self-gratification, whether and how to spend time with people outside their class, and on and on. I'm sure they wouldn't trade their life for my (reasonably comfortable) 18K/year, either.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 3:52 PM
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50: Yeah, I think her point was she'd heard it was a good place to meet lawyers after they get off work. Not that it is a pickup scene, but that it could be a way to meet guys with money.

I don't know why I googleproofed that. Did I mention that we did a lot of drinking last night?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 3:53 PM
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This seems relevant:

III

Me an' thy muther, Sammy, 'as bean a-talkin' o' thee;
Thou's bean talkin' to muther, an' she bean a tellin' it me.
Thou'll not marry for munny -thou's sweet upo' parson's lass -
Noa -thou'll marry fur luvv -an' we boath on us thinks tha an ass.

IV

Seeaed her todaay goa by -Saaint's-daay -they was ringing the bells.
She's a beauty thou thinks -an' soa is scoors o' gells,
Them as 'as munny an' all -wot's a beauty? -the flower as blaws.
But proputty, proputty sticks, an' proputty, proputty graws.

V

Do'ant be stunt: taak time: I knaws what maakes tha sa mad.
Warn't I craazed fur the lasses mysen when I wur a lad?
But I knawed a Quaaker feller as often 'as towd ma this:
"Doant thou marry for munny, but goa wheer munny is!"


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 3:56 PM
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54

I wonder how much money you'd need to build a needle large enough to fit a camel through.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 3:58 PM
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55

If you're talking about people so rich that they don't have to work, then yes, that's a surprisingly hard life to get used to.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 3:58 PM
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54: You could probably spend even more on genetically engineering a really teeny camel.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 4:00 PM
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Come to think of it, I don't actually know anyone rich enough that they don't have to work. I know law-firm partners, who get up into the significantly rich bracket, but they do work. And I've interacted with rich clients, but they run businesses. I can't think of anyone I've had any significant social contact with who has the money to just hang around being rich.

I bet I could get used to it, though. I'm really good at napping.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 4:03 PM
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Hanging around being rich is quite the lifestyle in Park Slope. I think most of them prefer to call it "freelancing," but they don't actually do any freelance work. It just makes them sound bohemian.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 4:05 PM
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59

One thing I'm curious about is how many mainstream journalists are incredibly rich. As stated in 58, being independently wealthy makes it about 150,000% easier to do any career that involves "freelancing".


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 4:06 PM
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60

"that they don't have to work" - that just means most people prefer working to anything else they could do with their tiem. And i don't have much trouble believing that, given how must people are so bad at having hobbies.

Or it means they really think that next 10% increase in income is the one that will really make them happy.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 4:37 PM
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61

places taht 'don't seem like pickup places' are probably the best pickup places, especially if the not-seeming is mostly a superficial characteristic


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 4:38 PM
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62

Some stats on NY idle rich.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 4:39 PM
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63

59 - The Mustache of Understanding is married to a Bucksbaum and is worth several hundred million dollars, which makes his Airmiles-style columns and infatuation with inch-deep and poorly written rehashes of Ricardo a little more comprehensible.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 4:42 PM
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places taht 'don't seem like pickup places' are probably the best pickup places, especially if the not-seeming is mostly a superficial characteristic

Tautologicalicious!


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 4:42 PM
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60: Well, true. I certainly know people rich enough that they could quit and just relax without a whole lot of lifestyle impact. I just don't know people who have done that -- the rich people I know work.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 4:46 PM
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63: Yeah, most of the big-media journalists I've met in the city either have extremely wealthy parents or extremely wealthy spouses. Some have both.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 4:47 PM
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Oddly, absolutely none of the journalists I know come from particularly wealthy backgrounds, but two of the three of them are overeducated like me. (The other one has an ag degree from LSU and kicks fucking ass.)


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 4:56 PM
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68

Tulane did a big "refocusing on our core competencies" push after Katrina, eliminating many entire departments that were expensive, including half the school of engineering.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 5:09 PM
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RE: "I know it's a cheap thrill, but I never get tired of seeing tiresome moral scolds revealed to be as lousy as the rest of us..."
Dont you mean lousier than the rest of us? See, Christians believe they can act like Devils and always be forgiven--they believe they can get away with murder, ask for forgiveness for their sins and accept Christ in their last breathing moments and then go to heaven, clean and pure as the driven snow. The rest of us know there are some things in life that are always unforgivable. Diddling children is one of them.


Posted by: A. Skywatcher | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 6:44 PM
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70

Speaking of which...


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 6:49 PM
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71

At the time of his arrest, the authorities said, Mr. Atchison, of Gulf Breeze, Fla., was carrying a Dora the Explorer doll, hoop earrings and petroleum jelly.

This sentence has been included in pretty much every article about this case, but it doesn't get any less squicky with repetition. Ick.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 6:53 PM
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72

Well, that's good. I'd certainly do that in his position.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 6:54 PM
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73

Yeah, it does seem like the only sensible thing to do. I wonder if the prison authorities let him get away with it for humanitarian reasons.

On the original story -- the 'hundreds of text messages to underage boys'. None of the stories I've seen have actually accused her of sexual behavior toward the boys she was text messaging, or sexual content in the messages. The implication is there, mostly in the word 'underage'. But do the reporters know stuff they aren't saying, or are they making simple craziness sound like child molestation?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 6:59 PM
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Ned is a perve.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 6:59 PM
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I imagine it'll be similar to what happens when a congregation fractures over an issue. They move down the street and become the New Reformed Oral Roberts University, across the street from Alliance Oral Roberts University, and two roads over from United Oral Roberts University.

There is a great example of this where I grew up: two churches about 1/4 mile apart, both called "[redacted] Primitive Baptist Church".

According to my father, the two sides came to schism when part of the congregation claimed "they ain't no hell" and the other half countered with "the hell they ain't".


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 7:05 PM
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72 not to 71.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 7:07 PM
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77

10 to 73.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 7:08 PM
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73: Well, it's alleged in a lawsuit by three fired professors, based on a report written by the university president's sister-in-law. I suspect the internal family and business politics here are downright byzantine, but I think the reporters are just quoting rather than hinting at something.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 7:11 PM
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That should be "73, see 10", because it is a serious suggestion, not a facetious implication of coincidental comedic juxtaposition.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 7:11 PM
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At least Atchison had the decency to kill himself.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 7:11 PM
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Yeah, I was mostly reacting to Vader's comment about diddling children in 69, given that such an accusation doesn't seem to clearly have been made. (And, you know, underage male college students, not quite children. Still fucked up, if that were the accusation and were it true, but a different category of fucked up.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 7:13 PM
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If the wife of the president of a fundamentalist university is having extensive Foley-style cybersex sessions with underclassmen, though... Oh dear God, please let it be so.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 7:16 PM
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That would be kind of precious and wonderful. Even better if they were couched in quasi-religious terms.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 7:17 PM
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84

i wish thy rod & thy staff were with me. lolz.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 7:30 PM
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When people say 'thinking like an economist' they generally mean 'thinking like a mindbogglingly irritating robot'

there is an excellent four letter Anglo-Saxon word beginning with "c" that would helpfully take the place of "mindbogglingly irritating robot" in that sentence you know.

btw, that Craigslist thing was going round on Thursday and I would bet quids that the chap in question will be separated from his job by Wednesday.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 7:31 PM
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86

It may not be fully accredited, but Oral Roberts University has the world's largest pair of praying hands.


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 7:33 PM
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87

How can we be sure they're praying? See URL.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 7:34 PM
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10

sending hundreds of text messages to underage men?

sounds like "athletic recruiting" to me.

Who knew that the mascot of ORU was the cougar?

As for the GOP Delegate Wide Stance Meet & Greet Brigade, they should set up an online means for the delegates to contact each other. Perhaps it could be called Larry Craigslist.


Posted by: Dr Paisley | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 7:35 PM
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"Oral Roberts University President Richard Roberts says God is telling him to deny allegations in a lawsuit."

I love this. Nobody needs God to tell them to deny false allegations; that's the normal response of 99.99999% of people on Earth. If God's having to intervene, that shit happened.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 7:35 PM
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90

"God, I really think I should confess to what I did."
"Richard! Don't be a weakling! Deny, deny, deny! You haven't given me the world's greatest college yet!"

Is that what he's tellins us happened?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 7:37 PM
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86: My sister knows of some conservative Catholic students who made a giant rosary out of milk jugs and planted it on the ORU hands.

It's sort of like stealing the other team's mascot, but for the nerdy and devout.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 7:52 PM
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91 is hilarious. One wonders how many of the Pentecostal students even got the joke.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 7:55 PM
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Apart from being hilarious on its own terms, I like 91 b/c I'm in favor of anything that stokes enmity between conservative catholics and conservative protestants. Things have really gone to hell since those two groups decided they hate liberals more than they hate each other.

Hey Oral Roberts U: you know know there's no salvation outside the One True Church, don't you? That means you're going to hell, not to put too fine a point on it.

And you, Ave Maria U: you fuckers engage in ritualized cannibalism. And this praying to saints shit is idolatry, pure and simple.

Now let's you and him fight.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 8:02 PM
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94

Hear hear.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 8:06 PM
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95

Things have really gone to hell since those two groups decided they hate liberals liberals, liberal Catholics, and God more than they hate each other.

Yeah. All of the religious rights main dudes go on and on about how the Catholics aren't really Christian on their radio talk shows but boy they don't seem to mind when it comes to trying to drum up pro-life support.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 8:08 PM
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The closest I ever came to starting a fight between a devout Catholic and Evangelical Protestant was when I got the latter to agree with me that condoms were OK... for married couples.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 6-07 11:55 PM
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97

On the other hand, if ORU has to lay faculty off, where do they go?

They can go to work on this.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 6:12 AM
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there is an excellent four letter Anglo-Saxon word beginning with "c"

It's four-letter, short and blunt-sounding. I'll give you excellent. But is it Anglo-Saxon? I thought the combined form we use with the latin for "tongue" showed it was latinate.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 6:50 AM
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37: It's noticeable that when it comes to Republicans, style *is* a guide to character. Remember Duke Cunningham's greasy jacuzzi water and filet mignons done to a brick?

86: Scholarship and intellectual inquiry? No. The Big Hands? Yesss! Welcome to the New Soviet Union..can you try to be like the old one and not let off any nukes? Thnx. Signed, Europe.

PS: Collapse nicely into even-sized chunks and you're in line for membership in 2030 or thereabouts. Except Florida, which gets to be Belarus.

88: You could make a case that she is a healthy countervailing force against the crap the place tries to shovel down their throats. We prescribe a cougar and a dose of exposure to ideological hypocrisy.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 9:16 AM
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98: It's derived from coney, though, not cunni-.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:11 AM
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Are those words cognate, or does anybody know? What do the Germans call it?


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:13 AM
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I don't know, but the online etymology dictionary includes this quote: "Cunnilingus was a very familiar manifestation in classical times; ... it tends to be especially prevalent at all periods of high civilization." [Havelock Ellis, 1905]


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:15 AM
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False friends? Rabbits are no tongues.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:15 AM
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I'll never think of Coney Island the same way again.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:19 AM
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100: C*nt derives from coney? There's certainly 18thC usages of 'cunny' that sound similar, but I think the form ending with -nt is older, going back to Chaucer. Second, that would make it latinate, because I'm pretty sure coney is cognate with Spanish conejo.

Isn't a ME spelling 'queynte'? Which doesn't sound like 'coney' at all. Damn, my OED is at home.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:22 AM
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I have a habit of joking to dates that I'm looking to marry rich. My favorite response was the oncologist that said "well, that's not me."

At the time I was switching from unemployment to grad school.


Posted by: ptm | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:24 AM
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Here's a page attesting to the Chaucerian spelling as queynte, but it looks as though that may have been punning rather than a conventional spelling.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:24 AM
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OED, supplement, says Germanic. Old Norse was kunta, Frisian kente. Nothing about coneys.

Straightforward word, from out of "time wherof the memory of man knoweth not the contrary," in recognisable form. Score one for dsquared.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:47 AM
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how nakedly it exposes the argument that "women have power over men, too--the power of sex!" for what it is.

you mean, true?


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:48 AM
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It's definitely queynte in the Miller's Tale. But, as you say, that's likely a pun.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:49 AM
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re: 108

And kont in Dutch.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:50 AM
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The Latin and German words are probably cognate back through Indo-European somehow, not that I know for sure.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:57 AM
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112: They're actually not, as far as anyone knows. I looked this up once and was surprised.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:03 AM
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I was thinking of sending up the Teo-signal -- you're the only one around here with any real linguistics background, as far as I can recall.

Maybe the Latinate word is cognate with the word for rabbit.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:06 AM
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There are actually several people here with a linguistics background, including ttaM. But I'm glad to have found a niche.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:09 AM
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Pat the bunny.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:10 AM
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The Bee-Hive

My Mistress is a Hive of Bees in yonder flowry garden
To her they come with loaden thighs, to ease them of their burden.
As under the bee-hive lieth the Wax, and under the Wax is Honey
So under her Waste her Belly is placed, And under that her C_ny.

My Mistress is a mine of Gold, would that it were her Pleasure
To let me dig within her Mould and roll among her Treasure.
As under th Moss the Mould doth lye, and under the Mould is Mony
So under her Waste her Belly is placed, And under that her C_ny.

My Mistress is a Morn in May, which drops of Dew down stilleth,
Where e'er she goes to sport and play, the Dew down sweetly trilleth.
As under the Sun the Mist doth lye, So under the Mist it is Sunny,
So under her Waste her Belly is placed, And under that her C_ny.

My Mistress is a pleasant Spring, that yieldeth store of water sweet
That doth refresh each wither'd thing lies trodden under feet.
Her Belly is both white and soft, and Downy as any Bunny
That many Gallants wish full oft to play but with her C_ny.

My Mistress has the Magick Sprays, of late she takes such wondrous pain
That she can pleasing spirits raise, and also lay them down again.
Such power hath my tripping Doe, My little pretty Bunny
That many would their Lives forego to play but with her C_ny.


Posted by: D'Urfey | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:19 AM
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Okay, according to the Indo-European Roots Appendix to the American Heritage Dictionary the Latin word is from PIE *skeu- "to cover" via a suffixed extended zero-grade form *kut-no- with the original meaning "sheath." The English word is from a posited Proto-Germanic root *ku- (with a variety of meanings that don't seem very connected to me) via Low German.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:19 AM
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Neither seems to be cognate to the "rabbit" word.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:22 AM
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Fine, okay, I take back my coney proposal. I know nothing. It would make sense if cunt were derived from sheath, the way vagina is.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:23 AM
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The actual derivation of "cunt" seems to be pretty obscure. I don't really buy this *ku- thing.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:27 AM
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"Cony" is from Latin "cuniculus," which American Heritage says is "probably from Iberian" (and therefore not Indo-European at all).


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:29 AM
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Huh. Is Iberian connected with Basque, or is it a completely different non-Indo-European language?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:32 AM
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123: Completely different, hypothesised to be vaguely connected with Berber (on the basis of totally insifficient data).


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:35 AM
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It's not very well-documented, but I believe the consensus is no. Aquitanian, another non-Indo-European language of pre-Roman Iberia, is generally considered to be either the ancestor of Basque or closely related to it.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:35 AM
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Europe was a much more interesting place linguistically before the Romans.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:36 AM
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Yeah, back when the whole world was like New Guinea.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:39 AM
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And kont in Dutch.

Doesn't that word refer to the posterior orifice in Dutch?

Where's Wisse to adjudicate?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 12:16 PM
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One interesting data point re: 102. Frank Harris, who achieved considerable notoriety for publishing a book of his sexual exploits in the 1920s, learned of cunnilingus from a French woman, who called it tante mieux. He never seemed to have learned of the word, rather he called it the practice of lesbianism.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 12:22 PM
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128: adjudicate, orificer?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 12:28 PM
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We're trying to have a civilized conversation about cunts and cunnilingus here, Sifu, and there you go lowering the tone with a pun. Puns are too vulgar, even for Unfogged.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 1:00 PM
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Can't help it Walt, that's just the kind of linguist I am.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 1:04 PM
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Okay, I laughed at 132, but now you must die.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 1:07 PM
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As far as I can tell, it's a total coincidence that the "Oral Roberts" thread evolved into the "cunnilingus puns" thread. Spooky.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 1:08 PM
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It's no coincidence. Sifu was pulling the strings the whole time, until in 132 his secret agenda was revealed.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 1:16 PM
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"Secret agenda"? Puh-leeze. Having now met Sifu in person, I can attest that every thing the man says is a cunnilingus pun.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 1:44 PM
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I, cunnilingus pun pwn.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 1:46 PM
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They're actually not, as far as anyone knows. I looked this up once and was surprised.

Teo, how many times do we have to tell you, you gotta stop reading about it and get out there and experience it.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 2:49 PM
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Those who can't, learn etymologies.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 2:53 PM
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117 is gorgeous.

words like cunny and kitty are so much more charming than cunt, which is a flat-out ugly word. So much more appropriate to end the word with a nice, soft, flowing vowel sound.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 5:05 PM
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Sometimes vaginas tire of being charming.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 5:07 PM
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Teo, how many times do we have to tell you, you gotta stop reading about it and get out there and experience it.

I'll have you know I have a date in 45 minutes.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 5:16 PM
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Well done you.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 5:19 PM
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Thanks. We'll see how it goes.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 5:22 PM
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Hook 'em Teo!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 5:22 PM
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Sometimes vaginas tire of being charming.

They just can't help it, though.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 5:34 PM
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Hope it goes well, Teo. If you need an ice-breaker, you could explain to her the etymology of the word 'cunt.' I bet she'd be impressed.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 5:37 PM
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146: Except for the dentata kind.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 5:44 PM
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Sometimes vaginas tire of being charming

I hear Kegel exercises can build up their endurance.

Oh, and Go Teofilo!


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 7:35 PM
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If you need an ice-breaker, you could explain to her the etymology of the word 'cunt.' I bet she'd be impressed.

She would have been, actually. Sadly, I didn't see this comment before I left.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 9:42 PM
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Did you get a kiss?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 9:45 PM
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How'd it go?!?!?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 9:45 PM
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It went pretty well, I think. No kiss, though.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 9:45 PM
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Next time!


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 9:48 PM
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Yes, next time.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 9:49 PM
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Did you ask her for a second go-round?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 9:49 PM
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Yes, and she was interested. We'll see.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 9:50 PM
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hey there champ you totally blew it by not talking about cunts and sex and stuff


Posted by: Mystery | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 9:54 PM
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Bow chicka MAU MAU!


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 9:54 PM
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Yeah, you should have nuged her, right before you started an admiral.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 9:56 PM
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158, see 154.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 9:56 PM
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I wondered where everyone went, Teo you should be proud that the unfoggetariat considers your dating life more interesting than pedophiles.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 9:56 PM
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Um, yeah, about that...


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 9:58 PM
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Just kidding. She's totally legal.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 9:58 PM
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If there's grass on the field, play ball!


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:03 PM
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If there's grass on the field, play ball!

I always heard that a girl ends up marrying someone who reminds her of her dad.


Posted by: Auto-banned | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:07 PM
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DUDE!

Funny though.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:10 PM
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162.---It's all fun and games when it's Republicans who're strangers.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:11 PM
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Hey, is this now the de facto dating life thread? I'll have you know that despite my sister and her friends trying to get me together with two other of her friends (separately), and the groom's sister and her husband offering to introduce me to their super-hot stepsister, I went home alone from the wedding on saturday. AWB remonstrated with me on friday, saying that if she were to have been my date, I would definitely have gotten some: now we'll never know.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:42 PM
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AWB remonstrated with me on friday, saying that if she were to have been my date, I would definitely have gotten some

With her, or with one of the aforementioned other women?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:45 PM
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How did you manage to bungle so thoroughly, rapidly aging young Ben?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:45 PM
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With one of the aforementioned.

How did you manage to bungle so thoroughly, rapidly aging young Ben?

It was really quite easy.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:47 PM
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Only for someone with your natural ability, surely.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:48 PM
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Seriously, Benjamin. I know how to make a man look good to other ladies. It's quite a dangerous skill, and not terribly useful to me, but I employ it with affection.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:49 PM
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As Lichtenberg might once have remarked, if self-cock-blocking is not natural to man, it is an invention which does him credit.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:50 PM
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Actually, it's not impossible that things would have gone better with fewer and less insistent well-meaning others on the scene, owing to certain affinities with noted romantic and overall success the underground man.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 10:52 PM
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Seriously, Benjamin. I know how to make a man look good to other ladies. It's quite a dangerous skill, and not terribly useful to me, but I employ it with affection.

A Wing Bear!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:04 PM
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The quote Just kidding. She's totally legal. may be the all-purpose punch line, one that makes any joke better. For example:

Knock-knock?
Who's there?
Just kidding. She's totally legal.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:24 PM
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Now, of course, Teo has to find the receipt for that Dora the Explorer doll.

Too soon? Banned?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:31 PM
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Fuck you, Clown.
Just kidding, she's totally legal.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:40 PM
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Now, of course, Teo has to find the receipt for that Dora the Explorer doll.

I know I have it somewhere around here.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 7-07 11:59 PM
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Too soon?

By no means.

Banned?

Of course.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:00 AM
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Stick with her, kid. She could be your Wing Bear some day.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:02 AM
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6 PM coffee dates: bad idea.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:02 AM
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6 PM coffee dates: bad idea.

But hey, now you can honestly say your date kept you up all night long...laydeez.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:05 AM
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184: I would think. I've never had a coffee date, but I don't think it would put one in the mood for romance. It would just give you bad breath and the jitters. What's your plan for date two?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:05 AM
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I like the idea of a coffee date in general, because it's nice and low-key, but not in the evening.

No firm plans for date two. We'll discuss it.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:07 AM
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A coffee date is kind of a half date, in two dimensions:
a) you can ask a girl to get coffee relatively informally, and it's not a date, and it's not not a date.
b) if it is actually a date, it's a date where sex is neither being offered nor declined, barring extraordinary circumstances.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:21 AM
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I like the idea of a coffee date in general [...] but not in the evening.

"Coffee. My place. Tomorrow morning. [wink]"


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:26 AM
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189: Fucking sly.

188: Yeah, it is a truth universally acknowledged that the amount of risk ventured in the input is directly proportional to the maximum possible satisfaction of the outcome.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:28 AM
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188 is quite true, but that can be good for a first date.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:34 AM
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189 is much better, though.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:39 AM
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6 PM coffee dates: bad idea.

Keeping you up? Enzymatic variation means some people break down caffeine a lot slower. You might be one of those.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:42 AM
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Yeah, I think I am. I also don't drink coffee very often, so when I do it hits me hard.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:43 AM
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It wouldn't be such a big deal if I didn't have to get up at 6 to go to a 7:30 service, then work all day.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:44 AM
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I hear that some coffee places serve other kinds of drinks.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:47 AM
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Yeah, but who wants to be a wuss who orders a vanilla steamer on the first date?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:50 AM
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She actually ordered chai. But I am a man.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:52 AM
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I'm afraid that if I look up "vanilla steamer" I'll end up on urban dictionary - "how many dates until it's ok to ask for a vanilla steamer?"

Anyway, I was thinking hot chocolate.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:52 AM
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But I am a man.

That's the spirit.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:54 AM
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Glad you approve. By the way, if any of you fuckers have the day off tomorrow I just want to say that I hate you.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:56 AM
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Anyway, I was thinking hot chocolate.

Dude, my 10 year old daughter is already pushing to get coffee instead of hot chocolate at Starbucks.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:58 AM
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Dude, I don't really care. I like hot chocolate.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 12:59 AM
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Oh, the other advantage of the coffee date is that it lets you show off your good taste in coffee. Unfortunately, good coffee appears to be sufficiently absent from NE as to obviate the exercise (I know a place in malden, but how would she know?)

OT: I need a new machine. I'm posting from my dad's old router. In the past Newegg has treated me kindly, but now they're giving me shit prices. Is there a better hardware merchant out there?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 1:06 AM
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I don't really care. I like hot chocolate.

This isn't about taste, it's about getting laid. Priorities damnit.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 1:08 AM
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199: Indeed.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 6:23 AM
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Hot chocolate keeps me up, too.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 9:18 AM
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Ogged says cocoa is just as good as Viagra at a fraction of the cost.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 9:25 AM
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85 says by Wednesday, not Wednesday at the latest, but I just wanted to note that I got the email on Wednesday of last week, not Thursday, so you might want to move your estimated day of firing back slightly unless you think it's a function of how long it took to turn up in overseas email circles as opposed to local ones.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 9:38 AM
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Ogged says cocoa is just as good as Viagra at a fraction of the cost.

Precisely.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 9:40 AM
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You will all be shocked to hear that I overslept this morning and was late to services.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 10:21 AM
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Coco LeBoobs link is broke, ogged.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 10:24 AM
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Just click in the URL field and hit return. Your image in the towel thread, though? No funciona.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 10:25 AM
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207: Indeed.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 6:52 PM
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Er, I believe that is a person named "Coco Lee" with boobs, not a person named "Coco LeBoobs".


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 6:53 PM
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They have this crazy stuff called "decaf" these days.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 6:57 PM
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I would hereby likely to announce that I will change my pseudonym to "Coco LeBoobs" if someone sends me $50. A name that great can't be allowed to not exist.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 6:58 PM
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I'll send you $50 if you change your legal name to Coco LeBoobs. I require documentation.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10- 8-07 6:59 PM
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