1 - Something you can still do when you're an adult, like tennis or golf.
Lots of apparently hard sports can be continued into middle-age, I suspect.
I watched a 51yr old win a martial arts tournament at the weekend [against 20-somethings]. Admittedly, he's quite special, but there would have been nothing to stop someone less fit enjoying such a sport while not actively competing.
the insistance on team sports is weird to me, not the `life sport' thing (dance totally shouldn't be excluded, fwiw).
bowling isn't a sport.
So is the "life sport" thing a social or a physical one? Yes, dancing (at a certain level) and gymnastics are very difficult to do once you reach a certain and fairly young age. But diving? Can't you just go to your local pool and dive? Same with field hockey. There's a woman in her late 30's on my city league soccer team who also plays on a field hockey team. Why not?
Ah, to be raised by shrinks. The swimmers will take exception to "not a team sport," by the way. And doesn't your brother do some martial art?
Isn't your brother a big martial arts guy? Surely that's not a life sport.
One step closer to merging into the oggedpostropher.
Becks, do you have any brothers? If so, were they subject to similar criterion?
The oggedpostropher smokes pot and eats bacon and condemns himself to hell for it.
Off to swim. Alone. Until I die.
like tennis or golf.
I suppose doubles in tennis is something like a team, but golf?
Were Becks's parents shrinks?
Because those are some weird rules. I can imagine the reasons behind them, but it seems a classic case of theory making people blind to reality.
I've always disliked playing team sports, and if my folks had had rules like that, I wouldn't have gotten any exercise at all.
Cry, swim, cry, swim, masturbate in the pool, cry.
Maybe young Becks could have started playing wheelchair basketball?
Then again, are these rules any more fucked up (though less common) than rules like "boys *must* do team sports, and shouldn't do any sport that has any element of performance in it."
Martial arts are considered a life sport. There are a lot of adults at my brothers' school. And, yes, they both play life sports (tennis).
The objection to swimming being a team sport is that you compete individually (even during relays) and can't talk to other players while you're swimming.
You shouldn't be TALKING to other players while you're playing tennis!
Soccer also would have counted because adult soccer leagues were considered respectable.
can't talk to other players while you're swimming
Why does this matter?
18.2: How is this different from martial arts?
It's funny -- I kind of get their standards as a good thing. I mean, I'd like to have been the sort of athlete that can go get into pickup games of whatever, which is what they seem to be going for. But saying don't do sports that don't fit those parameters is loony.
I could see the impetus behind the rules being (a) "life sports" are less likely to get you injured and (b) you kids are already so antisocial we don't want to feed that by having you cross-country skiing for eight hours a day. Or maybe your parents are crazy, Becks.
shouldn't do any sport that has any element of performance in it
End zone dances don't count?
This rejection of individualism sounds like Communism.
Golf isn't really a team sport, nor is it good exercise, but knowing how to play can be a great social asset.
Softball would have been OK, too.
This didn't only apply to sports. I ended up not studying a musical instrument but, due to similar rules, I was told that I could learn the piano or the guitar (because those were skills that could be applied in informal gatherings and not only a musical ensemble) but not the violin or another instrument that one would only play in an orchestra.
My grade 12 phys ed teacher was an enthusiastic proponent of the "life sports" concept. That's how I learned curling.
So "life sports" meant "things that you will continue to do outside of a school context"?
Makes sense.
28. gold would be more interesting, and better exercise, if there were time limits. 300yd hole...you get 30sec.
29: Clearly, your parents have no appreciation of hillbilly-style fiddlin'. You should have kicked up a fuss punctuated by endlessly playing The Devil Went Down to Georgia on your stereo.
There is really only one sport that is not a life sport and that is American football. Almost every other sport has leagues for different periods of your life, although most contact team sports discourage activity after @ 50, ymmv.
33. also, instead of sand traps, there would be chained, hungry tigers next to the green.
7, 8- I'm a little freaked out by that meld play.
35: wrestling as such pretty much dies out after people get out of school, no?
38: Clearly, you've been going to the wrong bars.
39: okay, Jell-o wrestling is a life sport. Noted.
This level of parental social engineering is baffling. My brother and I were expected to do something, but the details were left up to us. So I ended up with a random assortment of activities that I actually enjoyed, from theatre to gymnastics to cross country to choir. Kept it from seeming like work.
from 40: People who Ogged is unlikely to date:
"You have to have your heart in it," says Jimmy Riffle, who has been wrestling gators at Native Village since he was twelve. "You have to be very patient. It also helps to have a low IQ."
I mean, encouraging team and/or "life" sports makes sense--I do that with PK--but it's weird to ban other things. Presumably the thinking was that the real point of sports is socializing, rather than, you know, exercise?
Becks' parents seem to have lacked an appreciation for transferability. I wasn't in choir at school but I played the clarinet in band. I read music well, sight read well, and many other things now that I sing on a high level because I learned music. The sports I played as a boy developed my body and co-ordination, and even the comfort of exertion, which would make doing other, "life sports" now more inaccessible if I hadn't. LB has described this from the other side, of missing out on it.
Presumably the thinking was that the real point of sports is socializing, rather than, you know, exercise?
Which also seems weird. My parents were both quite fit in their younger days, and encouraged the same in me, though they did not seem to mind which sports. There was some aversion to contact sports, which is very understandable given my size (though it would be awesome if Sprint Football were a more widespread sport), but otherwise I was given pretty much free reign.
Tennis or softball. Volleyball's not bad but it's hard to pick up as an adult since the threshold for enjoyment requires a fair amount of skill; ditto ice hockey, which I picked up as a (sort of) adult at 18. In most cities there are organizations that set up leagues for just about anything, soccer to ultimate frisbee to kickball.
My first thought when I read the post was pwned by 29- I play(ed) trombone, which has some fun opportunities (marching, jazz band) but only really in an academic setting. To join an independent band requires a level of skill and practice I couldn't keep up, and now I wish I knew guitar or piano.
Also applies to foreign language- I learned French, my wife Spanish, and she still uses her language while I see mine ridiculed by conservatives. Don't get me started on Latin. That's why we're thinking about sending our kids here (where they also do Chinese, but not dual immersion.)
Also applies to foreign language- I learned French, my wife Spanish, and she still uses her language while I see mine ridiculed by conservatives
This is one of the big reasons I learned Spanish and French--I actually thought in terms of "largest colonial language, other than English which I already speak."
Do send your kids to a Spanish immersion program.
47: I played both piano and trombone, and as a result would recommend guitar. Pianos: hard to bring out to the campfire or the front steps of the dorm.
Maybe the thinking was "activities that one could actually conceivably do *with* the kid sometimes, or at least enjoy socializing with the other parents on the sidelines, as opposed to shit where you're relegated to schlepping equipment standing around."
Speaking of French, does the Sarkozy split mean that Cecilia Sarkozy no longer qualifies as a FLILF?
49: But fun to noodle around on in the rec room.
My position, of course, is that your mother was and is totally right.
But fun to noodle around on in the rec room.
IYKWIM. I require a grand piano, of course.
I shall now always think of the apostrocock as a noodle.
56: but a long, asian noodle ... not one of those short american knock offs.
If I had any rules on the subject, I would actually steer my kids *away* from team sports, because they are all competition oriented. Its all about winning. Us vs. them. You've got to want it more than they do. It is better to have character than be a character. Drop and give me twenty. Go tribe.
It would seem to me that you ought to do both a team sport and an "individual" sport, for maximum benefit. In one you learn the value of teamwork!!!1! and in the other, self-discipline!!one!
58: How is that different from individual sports?
Diving, field hockey and dance are all 'life sports' under any definition surely?
I took diving lessons a couple of years ago for a year, and was about median in the group agewise. I was swimming last night during the adult diving classes, and there are even more oldies (2 with grey hair) than there used to be.
And when my son was trying hockey, the club had plenty of veterans teams.
And what about all those bloody OAPs doing ballroom dancing? Dance seems very sociable and something you could do forever. Your parents were a bit mad, weren't they?
I suspect that team sports for the kids of geeky academics are probably a really, really good idea.
63: Generally a pretty good idea, so long as you stay away from the organizations that have been ruined by competitive parents.
I would think those rice vermicelli noodles that are very skinny but puff up several fold with hot oil.
61: The individual sports are less annoying and in your face about it.
Caroline has been saying she wants to be a dance instructor when she grows up, because she likes dance, and wants to be a teacher like her dad. I support her totally in this.
58. Go tribe
sox in seven, baby
If I had any rules on the subject, I would actually steer my kids *away* from team sports, because they are all competition oriented.
There are all manner of benefits to sports participation, and which sorts of sports you prefer your kid engage in might be a function of the benefits you seek. Team sports have a lot to recommend them. I think it's really nice to have basic competence, if not any apparent skill, at a standard sport, and maybe particularly a standard "pick-up" sport.
20: How much was respectability a part of this. What if you had chosen, say, the Society for Creative Anachronism as a sport. (I assume that running around hitting people with swords is a good workout, and the whole enterprise always seemed very social and to attract big freaks from every stage of life.)
Your parents are fucking stupid. How is Dance not a life activity?
the organizations that have been ruined by competitive parents.
You know, now that PK's playing soccer, I have so much more empathy for the asshole parents and coaches. It's SO FRUSTRATING to be standing by the sidelines watching six year olds play soccer.
Not a lot of eight year olds in SCA. Also- way down in the geek heirarchy.
Society for Creative Anachronism as a sport
I lettered in giant turkey legs. Classics of the genre.
"Presumably the thinking was that the real point of sports is socializing, rather than, you know, exercise?"
I was confused on that as well. I initially thought you though, but later it seemed that Beck's parents were most interested in a sport requiring teamwork. I got that feeling after reading why swimming was banned for her.
As Becks said, running is a very social sport, but it does not require teamwork. Regardless of that question, soccer would have to be the appropriate sport. You can find leagues with varying levels of competitiveness, gender make-up, age levels. A sport that you can dial down the toughness as you age. Great deal of teamwork and a great work out.
I don't know why some are so baffled that parents would prescribe activities based on their values. Maybe this situation is a little harsh because there was a banned list, but otherwise, parents are always trying to socially engineer their kids.
Parents choosing between encouraging team vs. individual sports is a very common. The philosophy I don't agree with is the idea of a sport that lasts a lifetime. The culture learned playing tougher team sports when young can easily transfer to another sport if it becomes too demanding with age.
re: 49
Also, the guitar, quite literally, rocks.
Not a lot of eight year olds in SCA.
Only because SCA type parents don't get out there and organize SCA kids leagues. If they did, the teams would be totally popular.
Come to think of it, I bet every kid in PK's school would love something like this. Hmm.
I don't know why some are so baffled that parents would prescribe activities based on their values.
Now who's trolling?
It's baffling because, one, the particular rules involved seem weirdly arbitrary; and two, because sure, you push your kids towards the stuff you like, but if they want to play clarinet instead of piano, it seems bizarrely counter-productive (and mean) to tell them no, it's piano or nothing.
My parents felt that sports, team or otherwise, would lead me to fail and get an A- or have a boyfriend, so there were no sports or dance lessons. This has meant that as I've discovered I like being active, I am training muscles and skills that would have been a lot easier to learn when I was six. As things go, it's not really a regret, but I hope my eventual kids get into sports.
When I was small, I played soccer, until one day a stray soccer ball put a small dent in the roof of my mother's parked car, after which I was not allowed to play soccer or any other sports involving balls ever again. I then tried karate, but she pulled me out because she was scared I was getting hurt, despite my insistence otherwise. No sports or much else in the way of activity thereafter. Until high school, when she tried to force me to join the track and cross-country teams, but I hate running--always have--and had already settled happily into a completely sedentary lifestyle with absolutely no appreciation for the benefits of strenuous physical movement. So that didn't go over well, and lasted only one semester.
So, Becks, your parents' rules were crazy, but could have been worse.
Wow, 79 is sad.
My folks were just lazy, so sports I was interested in but that required lessons/skill (e.g. tennis) were out. Swimming I did because there was a neighborhood pool I could walk to, and a team; horseback riding we just nagged about forever and was a big concession on mom's part.
Team sports, alas, were a casualty of my outsider status in school; I did surprisingly well socially, but did not have the guts to put myself on physical display in gym.
Threadjack: M/tch M/lls and I will be at the Signature Room bar on Friday evening from 6-7ish (before we have to meet up with wedding-related friends). We're told it's a lovely sunset-watching spot.
We'd love to see IDP and any other Chicagoans. Lurkers most welcome.
If you don't want to shout out the traditional sexing Mutumbo greeting, I look like this.
My parents, for some reason, frequently pressed me to join some team or other in high school, but could always be distracted from enforcing their pronouncements by their frequent scorching fights.
M/tch, hurry up and answer 85 or you'll embarrass your girlfriend.
I hated team sports, because I hated my peers, those little bastards. Until Ultimate, that is. Thanks, hippie friends!
if they want to play clarinet instead of piano, it seems bizarrely counter-productive (and mean) to tell them no
That's very true. I just thought there was nothing wrong with Becks' parents encouraging a team sport.
SCA-style sword fighting can be an excellent workout, especially if you're in full armor and using a fully-weighted wood weapon. (Practice bouts are often done using "boffer" swords made of PVC pipe with foam padding, wrapped in duct tape.)
Note: do not wear a helmet made out of an old Freon can in which your eye slit has been cut out using tin snips so that the ridge of the cut rests on the bridge of your nose. This is a fast way to a broken nose, and while it may seem cool to explain to your high school classmates that you broke your nose in a sword fight, it will only accelerate your estrangement.
I would presume that telling your classmates you broke your nose in a sword fight in 1890 was a social benefit. In 1980, not so much.
I really should sign PK up for swordfighting, shouldn't I?
94: sure, why not ... he might like it a lot. Good for balance and co-ordination, not a bad workout.
And maybe if he knew what he was doing, he wouldn't have whacked the girl he was sword fighting with in the face yesterday.
96, having fallen ripe from the tree, is in danger of being spoiled or stolen by monkeys.
PK in a few years
http://www.flickr.com/photos/liz/1308719/
94: And then he and Noah could have a play date.
We should sign them up for the under-8 SCA team, Apo.
I think today's the day that a friend of ours hits 25 years of running every day. He's mildly crazy and it probably helps to be a cross country and track coach, but yeah, running can be a lifetime sport.
OT: If any of the Chicago legal contingent is interested in what looks like a decent public-sector position, heavy on labor and employment but including other stuff, e-mail me and I'll pass the announcement along.
How many U-8 SCA Squires do you think you could take? Assume full battle regalia.
100: I think he's smaller than that burrito you ate this morning.
104: Funny you should draw the comparison.
My really old-school parents didn't think it was proper for a girl to play sports at all, so I would sneak out and play soccer, and any other team sport I could get myself into. After many late night fights, they realized they could do nothing to stop me. Success! Oh, dear mama and papa, so arcane.
Soccer is a really great sport for people who are over the hill because the soccer field is flat so it restores balance.
For 103 I'm picturing something like this. But with more children, swords, and armor.
96 seems a bit optimistic. My experience dictates that he might, instead of hitting her by accident, have dealt her a well-placed death blow. And then danced over her prone body. But feel free to have it your way.
Speaking of sword fighting, another great activity would be to join the Medievals in Montreal. They all get dressed up in period costume (like the name suggests, though there are a few highlanders that infiltrate their ranks every once and a while) and re-enact massive skirmishes on the base of Mont Royal every sunday afternoon. They fight with weaponry fashioned out of cardboard and duct tape.
My roommate had the misfortune of taking one of the medievals into her bed chamber one fateful saturday night, only to be jerked awake at 10 am by his declaration: "Oh dear God! I'm late for WAR!"
The hardcore go really early to prepare.
I suspect that team sports for the kids of geeky academics are probably a really, really good idea.
But only if the coaches are extremely supportive and willing to explain things like there are two teams, or, the bases are run counterclockwise. Oh god I'm getting cold chills just remembering.
I would presume that telling your classmates you broke your nose in a sword fight in 1890 was a social benefit. In 1980, not so much.
Depends which university. Heidelberg still has schlager clubs. There are still German law firms where it's pretty difficult to make partner without that scar.
I was a diver for about 10 years. It's very solitary, though it's good training for total focused concentration. There are no opportunities to work with others or provide leadership (as on a team) and it's very difficult to go to a pool now to dive. First off, to be good - and safe - it takes constant practice. And a public pool is a difficult place to practice - inpatient people behind you, no opportunities to test the board, and so on.
My son plays baseball and squash - a team sport and one he can participate in when he's older.
Richard:
It is sad how many public pools have removed their diving boards.
Theory: Richard is a crazy person because all divers are crazy people. Insane.
Well if inpatients are diving no wonder there's trouble.
how bizarre and out of the mainstream they were
Wow, serious control freaks. It's not hard to influence what your kids do without laying down freaking rules.
I want my kids to learn how to get an interest and follow it - too many adults I know are totally useless at this - so we generally wait until they ask to do something before putting them in an organized version of it. But we limit them to 1 (growing to 2 lately) activity at a time to keep some open time in their lives, so they have to make some tradeoffs. We're pretty active together, too, so they bike and paddle and hike with our family.
So gymnastics is not a life sport? Shit, well I know gymnasts in their late 50s, sure they might not make it another 20 years at that level but then I guess if you want to take anything far enough nothing is a life sport but sitting in a chair dozing with your mouth open for catching flies.
let's see. Life sport, boxing must be it, supposedly Jack Dempsey knocked out two muggers when he was in his 70s. I know an guy in his sixties that knocked out a young smart ass cop, and the guy wasn't in particularly great shape for his age.
I know Capoeira is a life sport, because I know plenty of Capoeiristas that are past middle age that still do it. I guess that must mean that dance can be a life sport.
112: . . . the bases are run counterclockwise.
This makes me flash back to the summer between junior and senior year of high school, when I did a homestay in a Barcelona exurb.
Very soon after my arrival, the host family took me to the town gym, where my host brother was participating in a 24 hour basketball tournament. They got me on the court, and the first time I got the ball I somehow managed to run the wrong way. I may have even made a shot on the wrong basket. I then left the court, and was told by someone that "Usually the Americans who come here are good at basketball."
Now that the embarrassment has worn off, I am happy to have been an ambassador of the diversity of American athletic talent.
I want cycling to be a life sport, but there may sometime be balance issues, to say nothing of injuries or irritations. Hearing loss if it happens as it did to my dad and granddad I'll try to work through, with mirrors etc.
In Britain there is a whole community dedicated to lightweight, good-quality tricycle riding, not just by geezers. That might take care of some balance issues. But the steering is so different that I'm told you have to learn to ride them early enough or might not be able to make the transition. I wonder if it's already too late for me?
99, et al.: I don't think I'd heard of German dueling clubs until Holbo linked to this comic.
