This is pretty old. I want fresh timewasting material.
We've even discussed this before on this very site, in fact.
But for the Kennel Club confirmation, I would be fairly suspicious. I didn't grow up playing baseball--mine was a decent family--but in many sports (it seems to me) you check the guy's waist area for information. Perhaps that isn't accurate.
1: How about this: black people don't get old.
I remember seeing this a while ago. Frankly, I don't think this would have happened if I was looking at the picture.
I notice myself looking at breasts under clothing all the time, but not genitalia.
What sort of information?
The direction they're going to be moving. Useful in football, basketball, soccer, and other such sports, but not so much in baseball.
I'd want to know how accurate the eye-tracking is. Because when I look at the image I look at it, then I look at the top half and then I look at the bottom half. Now I'm sure part of that is because there are whacking great red/yellow dots on it, but I'd want to know if the tracking merely tracks centres of interest or if it's more specific than that.
8: That's what I was thinking. Really not an issue in baseball. Also, this was a still picture.
7: If you're hunting camel toads, don't take Ned with you.
6 - I don't know if this is what SCMT meant in 4, but we had a basketball player come play Ultimate with us one time. I covered her, and as we ran, she kept putting a hand on my hips (every couple seconds or so). (Not allowed, btw. Ultimate is strictly non-contact.) I asked her what she was doing and she said she could which way I was going to turn from that! So neat! It was a source of information that had never occurred to me.
which way I was going to turn from that
I don't think she was talking about the game, Megan.
Why do I always take these things at face value? So many missed opportunities.
Great, my thoughtful post about academic practices gets trumped by a bunch of dudes staring at cocks. So typical.
you check the guy's waist area for information. Perhaps that isn't accurate.
It's pretty hard to tell how big it is under the fabric, and you never know who's stuffing.
you never know who's stuffing
"Corking their bat," my people call it.
I asked her what she was doing and she said she could which way I was going to turn from that!
Please tell me you juked with the waist instead of the shoulders after that. If she really wanted to beat you in a game, she should've just told you she was coming on to you, then broken long in the ensuing confusion.
Well, this is certainly distressing to those of us with enormous cocks. You mean no woman has ever noticed it except those who have seen it in the flesh? What a waste!
Apo's 13 is just reinforced by the fact that she wanted to know which way you were going to turn while you were covering her.
, but not so much in baseball.
Isn't the strike zone traditionally defined as "parallel to the penis"?
6: That's where the ball will be.
Which, yeah, would have a lot more explanatory value if this wasn't a still picture.
I regularly murmur erotic come-ons to the thrower between counts. I figure it slows their stall count, so it all evens out.
22: That's why strikebreakers are called scabs.
Is this what is implied by 'just think about baseball'?
Pasttime
I thought you were the descriptivist.
The strike zone, but the way, is between the knees and shoulders, not the crotch and shoulders.
so wait--what was the akc photo that produced the same results?
a chihuahua at bat?
("it is not that it is done well, sir, but that it is done at all.")
I thought you were the descriptivist.
Spelling ≠ grammar. But I'm not really complaining, just pointing it out because I find it an interesting (and common) eggcorn.
Knees to the letters (on his uniform), ogged.
28: By the rules, sure. As called, no way. The top of the de facto strike zone is around the waist, maybe a bit below.
between the knees and shoulders
Not that I've watched enough baseball in the past 25 years to know, but is a pitch at the shoulders ever called a strike?
The strike zone, but the way, is between the knees and shoulders, not the crotch and shoulders.
For a normal stance, the midpoint between the knee and (is it really?--I thought it was high torso) the shoulders is going to be the crotch. I assume people start looking for the ball at the midpoint. (I also assume people might just learn to check the waist for information.)
Wikipedia on the strike zone:
The top of the strike zone is the mid-level between the top of the batter's shoulders and his belt, and the bottom is at the level just beneath the knee cap. The right and left boundaries of the strike zone correspond to the edges of home plate. A pitch at which the batter does not swing and which does not pass through the strike zone is called a ball. Unofficially, the de facto enforced strike zone may be different at any different level
So I was wrong about the shoulders.
But there's still no baseball reason to be staring at his crotch.
34: Perhaps, but again, in this specific case, still picture.
those men were not looking at the waist. The `fixation' density is at crotch and down the inside of following leg.
The zone goes from the bottom of the batter's kneecaps to the midpoint between the top of the batter's shoulders and the top of the batter's uniform pants.
The top of the strike zone works out to be the letters on the front of the uniform for most uniforms.
36, 37: I don't understand the "still picture" point. I assume people look for the strike and orient themselves by the waist/crotch area.
The "still picture" point is that there is no ball crossing the plate, so it's unlikely that the men are just trying to figure out if it's a strike.
look, if the proffered explanation is that guys stared at his crotch because that's just what any person would do who his clued into baseball, then this is very testable.
e.g.--run it on stills of soccer players. football players. golfers, etc. etc.
also--dobermans, pekinese, and st. bernards.
what the hell was that akc line about?
36: Yes there is: if you've played, you know that the rotation of the hips is the start of the swing. So if you're standing at third base, you watch for the hips to rotate 1) because you can anticipate where the ball's going to go (will his hips force his shoulder to fly open?) which 2) saves your life when his shoulder doesn't fly open and the ball's smoked at you.
41: Right, but (1) to know that, don't you have to check to see that the pitch isn't blowing by him in the picture, and (2) don't people learn to instinctively react to an image, moving or not, in the same way initially?
43--
yeah, ogged, so you haven't played.
nyah, nyah!
if you've played, you know that the rotation of the hips is the start of the swing
You can know that even if you haven't played, and you'd watch the front hip, not his penis.
Forget the schlong - why do the men look to the sides of his head, and the women above his head?
to know that, don't you have to check to see that the pitch isn't blowing by him in the picture
Wouldn't this result in a wider spread of views throughout the area where the ball is likely to be?
You're looking at his center of gravity. Think belly-button, not penis: the belt-buckle seems to be where the eyes are gravitating.
Basically, the men's views are remarkably tightly focused on the penis, and there's no plausible baseball-related explanation for that.
Ultimate is strictly non-contact
Which is unfortunate, and earns the sport an ounce of my contempt. But I guess it means you can have coed games, and women who play ultimate = hott, not to swell Megan's head or anything.
Assuming the eye-tracking is sensitive enough to pick it up, the cock-centred explanation seems the most logical one.
52: There are extremely accurate eye tracking methods available.
51: It can work remarkably well coed. It's a big field, and it's mostly one-on-one matchups that don't change that much. Playing coed does make zone defense and switching on man defense hard.
Plus, hott.
I notice myself looking at breasts under clothing all the time
Do you lift up the hem, or peek down the neck?
Forget the schlong - why do the men look to the sides of his head, and the women above his head?
The women seem to be scanning up and down. I presume that just by looking at the waist they can figure out which way the schlong is turning, so they don't have to look down any further to get information.
Really, zone is different between men's and mixed games? Big difference or little difference? Like, what part? Don't you just put your tireless women in the cup and have some tall guy as the deep deep?
Also, hott ultimate guys.
Say, is that penis bifurcated?
Did you hear the one about the man with the trifurcated dick? His pants fit him like a glove.
Drive safely and don't forget to tip your waitress.
Meanwhile, I recommend last week's and this week's A Softer World.
54: Disambiguation: Do you mean that playing zone and then swithcing to man D is hard? e.g., zone for 5. Or that both playing zone, and playing Ds where you switch, e.g., Clam, are? Not sure why zone would be hard, but I could see zone for X being problematic.
And back on topic, don't you look at the hips in practically all sports?
Really, zone is different between men's and mixed games?
Not strategically, but if you put the women in the cup (apart from the top/middle-middle position) and throw guys in for the deep-deep and the wings, it keeps the cup fairly effective while producing a lot of guy-on-girl matchups upfield (unless you have all-women handlers, which no mixed team ever does). This gets kinda annoying after guys get their third or fourth layout D on a seemingly wide-open girl on windy days. You need really good women to make mixed work smoothly.
Ultimate is strictly non-contact
Which is unfortunate, and earns the sport an ounce of my contempt.
Eh, in open play at the competitive level, it's pretty much non-contact in the same way that soccer is a non-contact sport. There's lots of bumping into people, boxing others out, subtle pushing to get clear (so long as it's not done with the hands), and general collisions in the air. There's a reason the high lofty throws put where a lot of people can get to them are called "hospital discs".
Do you mean that playing zone and then swithcing to man D is hard?
I bet s/he means that playing a man D where people switch (say, last back with everyone else covering under) can be difficult, because it's also liable to cause a lot of woman-on-man coverage as the typical defender switches happen. Just like what happens when you throw zone D on a co-ed team.
47- Women look at the chest area, they want to see if the player has a rack.
Sorry to dispute all the apologists out there, but if the male viewers' interest was in the player's imminent swing, then at least some eyeballs would check the hands.
That said, I do think that J-Dub's question in 47 is a good one - why such distinctly different shapes about the head?
it's pretty much non-contact in the same way that soccer is a non-contact sport.
In what sense is soccer non-contact?
In what sense is soccer non-contact?
In the same sense that Ultimate is a non-contact sport. Read 63.
On the other hand, by this definition anything except football, rugby, hockey, and lacrosse is a non-contact sport.
except football, rugby, hockey, and lacrosse
Boxing.
(Um, I quoted 63, so I'd read it. But thnx.)
Except in soccer you can slide tackle. And except for being considered a contact sport.
Okay, nevermind. Officially it's non-contact. BUT WE'RE STILL TOUGH.
Actually, I take it back. According to wikipedia, it is.
On the other hand, by this definition anything except football, rugby, hockey, and lacrosse is a non-contact sport.
Pretty much. I always defined contact sports as those sports where you were allowed or encouraged to "play the man" instead of "play the ball". But after looking at the wikipedia entry here, it seems that current medical terminology defines those as "collision sports" and the current category of "contact sports" includes things like basketball, soccer, and any other sport where you're likely to run into other people or the ball in the course of play. I'd say ultimate certainly fits that description.
Except in soccer you can slide tackle.
Yes, but you're required to be going for the ball, not just for the person. There's a similar out in ultimate where pretty much any incidental contact (which in the case of our last tournament, left a couple guys on other squads pretty beaten up) is ok so long as the defender got to the disc fairly before hitting the player on offense.
Damn you and your wiki-speed, Heebie!
BUT WE'RE STILL TOUGH.
Exactly, that's why it's a perfect comparison when people claim being "non-contact" in the rules makes ultimate a weenie sport. There's shitloads of contact, just like anyone would see in a high-level soccer game, it just has to be in the course of legitimately going for the ball or positioning oneself before the other person can take space for the play.
I snort wikispeedia recreationally. It can be hard to keep up with me.
Sorry to dispute all the apologists out there, but if the male viewers' interest was in the player's imminent swing, then at least some eyeballs would check the hands.
Except 1) swings don't start with the hands and 2) the hands don't tell you where the body's going. Just like in basketball, if you pay attention to the hands or head, you're open for a fake.
Isn't it sort of well-established by now that (men's) sports are all about homoeroticism?
57 etc:
When a (non-elite) mixed team is playing zone D, the offense can put guys in an area being defended by a woman. Then you exploit the height/length matchup. Obviously this is a bigger deal in 4/3. Similarly, breaking a mark / finding a hole in the cup is a lot easier against women with shorter arms (albeit lower ones).
62 - yeah, I meant 64. Playing man D and switching who you're guarding takes more thinking in coed.
SEK, you're on crack. This is a still photo that was being looked at on the computer screen. Nobody cares where the invisible hypothetical ball is about to go. Those men were looking at his crotch. QED.
Here you can see Roberts determining in which direction his teammate is about to turn.
And in this picture... sorry, I got nothin'.
Also, the idea that men have a fascination with dogs' hindquarters is simply ludicrous.
Isn't it sort of well-established by now that (men's) sports are all about homoeroticism?
Why can't women's sports be about homoeroticism?
ptm and p-m p
I'd have said that zone decreases the influence of speed, so I'd have said that zone decreases the difference between open and mixed Ultimate (compared to man D). No? That's not how you experience it from the men's side of the game?
Megan's about to have another unpleasant epiphany about the differences between men and women, isn't she?
This one might not be as extreme. I've seen men running fast before. And getting crazy-ass D's.
Jonathan Papelbon is a national treasure.
SEK, you're on crack. This is a still photo that was being looked at on the computer screen. Nobody cares where the invisible hypothetical ball is about to go. Those men were looking at his crotch. QED.
This interpretation reflects your own proclivities and biases, ogged. Nobody switches into "still image and a computer mode." They see an image of a batter and do what they normally do, whether the image then stays still or moves. If the eye-tracking controlled for time spent in an image region--which might suggest what happens at the moment of physical awareness that it's a still image--I'll eat my hat.
They see an image of a batter and do what they normally do
This is such made-up bull. And ANYWAY, you wouldn't look at the guy's crotch, no matter what SEK says.
I bet you can't help but look at this guy's crotch. (NSFW once you scroll down.)
The theorizing about balls (covered with leather and stitched? baseballs, at any rate) and strike zones might have a point if the eye tracking data was from baseball players or even baseball fans. From the general public? Ogged is right.
91: There are other problems with the study as well. It's not clear to me that as many men would have checked out the crotch if it hadn't been George Brett. I mean, c'mon. Look at that hair. Look at that jaw. Talk about dirty pool.
92. Ouch!! Interesting how the comments focused on grooming standards of the modern male.
Yes there is: if you've played, you know that the rotation of the hips is the start of the swing.
Or, you could just watch the actual bat. Granted, it's not the same visual feast as the "hips".
93: Hasn't the general public played sports? If nothing else, they were probably forced to play field sports in school.
73, 75 - Since this is the soccer thread, I'll mention that the main thing making soccer a contact sport is the fact that charging (narrowly defined) is legal. As P-M P says in 75, there is a lot of incidental contact in soccer, but "challenging for space using physical contact" is also officially sanctioned in the laws of the game, provided it is not careless, reckless, or violent, and does not use the arms. For example, you are allowed to lean shoulder-to-shoulder against another player in the course of challenging for the ball.
On the other hand, the asshole in Texas who broke my collarbone definitely believed soccer was a collision sport.
Every schlock sci-fi writer I've ever read has insisted that when you're in a knife fight, the place to look is at your opponent's eyes. So I'm not challenging any more women to knife fights.
One thing that might be worth noting is that the batter's crotch is at the very center of the photograph, so if you were to center your eyes in order to rest them, it might seem like you were checking out his package.
Maybe the male participants got bored of staring at the face after a few seconds/minutes and just zoned out until the next picture. The females just payed more attention or were more interested in an unfamiliar scene.
Since this appears to be the baseball thread -- hey, how 'bout them Red Sox?
Lofton robbed at second! Too bad. Suck it, Tribe.
Leaving Matsuzaka in against Sizemore. My stomach is churning...
Oh man, having 2003 flashback. Call to the bullpen!
Popout. Not great, but not disaster.
Pleasepleaseplease get this out.
These long at-bats are gonna give me a heart attack.
Ring him up. That's a strike. Jesus. I don't believe this shitty box.
Thank god. This is going to be a long night.
So is this Beowulf actually animated, completely? I can't tell.
That Beowulf preview looked TERRIBLE. What, precisely, was that accent?
Didn't w-lfs-n post about this already? I don't have the link handy. Anyway: come on, David!
DAmnit, Manny. This is starting to look like Westbrook has "settled down." We missed our chances in the first couple of innings and now ... I'm feeling sick. One run's not enough.
I also don't get these Malibu commercials. Is the contention that all non-Malibu automobiles are invisible?
I'm pretty sure Beowulf is filmed with the same sort of process Zemeckis used for The Polar Express.
Even setting aside the shitty visuals, the movie looks like it's gonna be crap.
I was just kicked out of the living room by housemates who insisted that both football and baseball are boring, so hey! let's watch another documentary about nuclear bombs. Me: "But, but, but there are crotches to ogle!"
Jeemer gets the generous strike call. The only reason Matsuzaka never got that call was that the umpires are racist.
9 outs to the World Series. Come on Sox.
Hey, were you aware that Okajima has an unorthodox delivery? Perhaps McCarver should tell us about it for the seventh game in a row.
How can you Sox fans be content when you know that Lofton was safe at second?
McCarver would also like to tell you about how is he surprised by the obvious.
Taylor Twellman, at the Sox game! Even soccer-players like baseball, Ogged.
I anticipate that if the game ends 3-2, we will have heard the last about the Lofton call in Cleveland by early December 2044.
JD, hitting it on the ground to the middle infield. Big surprise.
Well, I guess we now know the half-life on grand slam-induced goodwill.
I was over that when he grounded out with the bases loaded in the first.
How can you Sox fans be content when you know that Lofton was safe at second?
Umps are fallible, shit happens, go Sox.
OK, well, I think the Lofton thing is even now, what?
How can you Sox fans be content when you know that Lofton was safe at second?
The sentence is meaningless. It can't be checked, there's no use considering it, so it's ignored.
Seriously. Time for the 'Bot. No more fucking around, Tito.
Huge, huge error by their third-base coach. Wow. Just wow. They should be up by one, now.
This is an interesting way to try to learn the rules of baseball.
Man. Skinner and the umpires are keeping us in this game. Time to start hitting, Sox.
At least it was Cleveland's own third-base coach who kept Lofton from scoring that time. Can we see some goddamn runs now please?
Seriously. Lugo giveth and the 3rd base coach taketh away. Even the stupid Fox announcers get this.
Blake! No one can hold onto the ball. It's the cold New England Octobers, wreaking havoc on the fielders' fingers.
One good error deserves another. Redeem yourself, Lugo.
147: one of the people in my apartment watching the game with me just said, "Redeem yourself, Lugo," right as he came up to bat.
It's a very New-England-ish way to watch a sports game. Baseball players in the Hands of an Angry Fan!
pedroia!!!
FUCKING AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This game's wearing me out. I want ... fro-yo.
149: Wait &mdash is this your apartment?
I hope the Sox score several more, for Skinner's sake. He may have a long, sad winter otherwise. Please dear God please, six more outs with no hits. I'll go to confession again, I swear.
Looks like I'm off the hook for the confession thing. Give it up for Jeemer, and bring on the 'Bon.
I can't believe they're still harping on the Lofton-Skinner thing. More important things going on right now!
Wow. I didn't think Francona would really tap Papelbon with six outs to go. My blood pressure is through the roof.
K! Bye-bye, Hafner.
Take that white man. That's what you get for your racist mascot.
It just occured to me that if this game were being played on a weekday, it would essentially paralyze the Japanese economy.
Three more outs! Please, God, just three more outs. I was kidding about the confession thing, really.
Wait, I missed that. What did McCarver just say about Manny's defense?
165: It must be monday morning in japan, no?
Now on Wikipedia: Joel Patrick Skinner (born February 21, 1961 in La Jolla, California) is a former catcher in Major League Baseball and is currently the third base coach of the Cleveland Indians, who he just helped lose the American League Championship Series Game 7 against Boston by holding up Kenny Lofton. He is the son of Bob Skinner, a National League outfielder in the 1950s and '60s.
168: You're right, I forgot about the date line. Hey &mdash 6-2!
It's like a comedy of errors, down the 3rd base line.
They would have caught that if Lofton had been called safe on that play at second.
That was painful to watch. Bases loaded!
It's lunchtime Monday in Japan.
Well, at least he didn't hit into a double play.
Dustin PedroiA!!!! It's like he's made out of clutch.
Time for Papelbon to put on his dancin' shoes.
So, I guess none of the errors in base-running or out-calling really matter, at this point. 3 more outs!
Also, this Beyonce commercial makes me rage. "I'll get the boomerang myself," and then she buys it online.
So, I guess none of the errors in base-running or out-calling really matter, at this point.
Wrong, that play was a momentum changer.
World Series, w000000ttt!!!! Great catch, Coco!
189: We are immune to your jibes, Ogged. We are filled with Love for All People!
Wrong, that play was a momentum changer.
Tell it to Steve Bartman.
I would, if he weren't cut up into little pieces in my freezer.
Note also that one of the smallest guys in baseball had a very big night. Dustin is my hero.
Anyway, congrats to the Sox. I was rooting for them, too. Too bad you Bostonians no longer know the exquisite suffering of a century long losing streak, though.
Ah, yes, the honking-in-the-streets has begun. I'm remembering what I hated about the last time we were in the Series.
Also, Larry Lucchino always looks like the father in A Christmas Story, to me -- Darrin McGavin?
This is a very awkward trophy ceremony.
"Bring back the National League ... trophy."
"Um... okay."
So now that my wife and children are spared days of abuse, I am again moved to wonder why I get so wrapped up in this. I'm a longtime Sox fan, but I don't really consider myself a sports nut, and I do consider myself a fairly rational person. Yet I know that I would be seriously depressed if Boston lost tonight, just as I was elated after the 2004 ALCS, not to mention the World Series. Why?
Identification with the region, and the other fans, if not the team so much? I watched the first four innings of the game yesterday in a crowded bar in J.P., and it was electric -- and I normally hate crowds. It's just a different thing altogether. The closest most of us will ever get, to being in a cult.
Anyway, this thread was a lot of fun. Thanks all, and good night!
Now that was exhausting.
I haven't read upthread yet, but I can't have been the only one who watched Lugo drop that ball and thought Bucky Fucking Dent.
any want to watch a world series game at a bar or something in Chicago? My husband has a paper to write & a presentation to prepare & is uninterested in human contact for the next two weeks. Ah, the academy.
A personal note to the people of Los Angeles: while I remain puzzled by your plan to schedule a dinner party during game 7 of the ALCS, especially since you knew perfectly well what the game meant to the Red Sox, but given that, I do thank you for being so understanding about the fact that I utterly ignored anything not actually broadcast on a TV from Boston, including but not limited to the extant food and company. Your good humor has paid dividends.
Can we start up a Game 3 thread here? Or is there one somewhere else...?
Probably at some sports-oriented blog, arthegall.
What the hey, I'm in.
First of all: enough with the fucking souvenir snot rags, non-Red Sox teams.
I'd try my own blog, Ben, but I have a readership of about 3 over there. But if you want me to buzz off, that's fine, I can do that too.
212 to 210. 211 seems to have inherited Lunar Rockette's po-facedness.
w-lfs-n kids because he loves, arthegall. And by "loves" I of course mean "tolerates."
Game 3 of what? The Stanley Cup playoffs are a long way down the road, yet.
Made it out. Shit better stay lights out from here on in.
OKAY!~!!321one!
Now I feel better.
Keep the party alive, Sifu.
Ellsbury and Pedroia, back-to-back, that's pretty gutsy. Just when it looked like CO was on a roll...
Yup. I'm worried about paps, tho.
Wait... why? Is he injured?
The fucking suffolk students who live downstairs, think they're in an a cappella group. They're singing 'wonderwall' right now. What. The. Hell.
Just because he pitched so much on Thursday.. they were talking about it earlier.
They're singing 'wonderwall' right now. What. The. Hell.
Holy shit I hate that song.
By the way, I'm not sure I'm ever going to disentagle myself from the 8 billion tabs on algebraic topology and category theory TWFiMF has led me to open. Bastard.
