Haven't you been attempting to do this at Whole Foods Oggedville for years now?
In the mists of early history, the pickup place was the Social Safeway. Then Whole Foods came. I'm sure it is all different now. But what do I know; I shop at Giant in Arlington and can't even find prepared mashed-potatoes in the refrigerated foods section.
Oh, you're supposed to pick up people at Whole Foods! I have been trying and failing for years to pick up people at White Hen.
I guess White Hen could do. When you run out of anything run out to White Hen.
Singles in New York City have a harder time meeting people than in other cities...
An innocent conversation Johnson had in the store with a male acquaintance was misconstrued by his girlfriend, leading to the couple's breakup. After that incident, it was awhile before Johnson's boyfriend felt comfortable with her shopping alone.
What will Bostoniangirl make of all this?
This has been going on a long time, no? The schmanzy new Schnucks in St. Louis ca 10 years ago got dubbed the 'singles Schnucks'.
The only time I've ever posted anything to the craigslist missed connections was after an encounter at my co-op. Sadly, my search for the guy in the green pants with the JSTOR articles under his arm was unsuccessful.
The New York Sun article, at least, might better be summarized as "people think they might pick up someone at Whole Foods, but nobody we've been able to find has actually done so."
Actually, both articles are like that. I bet WF had their local PR people suggest this as a story to all the lifestyle sections in their markets.
Speaking of yuppie supermarkets, Trader Joe's is awesome. I'd never been before because the one here is way out in the middle of fucking nowhere for some reason, but as it happens the house where I'm housesitting right now is also way out in the middle of fucking nowhere.
And the $3 wine they sell is surprisingly drinkable, Teo. For $3 wine.
I got a bottle of wine fo $1.25 the other day, because it wasn't scanning right and the cashier didn't want to do a price check. (I could have told him its price if only he'd asked.)
I was willing to tell him. I was wanting to tell him. I was waiting to tell him. But did he ask? No. And so it all fell to pieces.
OT: Randy Moss is just wrong. That is all.
Maybe the Patriots can score 100 today.
Moss should be forced to play the second half with one hand actually tied behind his back. Just to see what happens.
Should we even bother with the rest of the season this year? I suppose the NFC could still have its playoffs, and the Pats should play the Colts, but we can certainly skip the Super Bowl.
I was at a WF in Boston this spring and they were advertised the upcoming 'singles night.' This made perfect sense to me: better lit than a bar with built in socioeconomic screening. Where else will you find someone who understands your deep need for peanut butter churned by monks. A cousin in the area later found himself at WF on singles night and was happy to find that participating parties were given identifying name tags, so he could just gt his tea tree oil and leave unharrassed.
The Steelers are not to be counted out. They certainly can take the Colts, at least.
14: With a little bit of luck, with a little bit of luck, that guy's manager will not find out.
I might have tried to pick somebody up at Whole Foods in the past, but no longer. Any woman who would stand for an increase of 33% in the price of vegan gingersnaps is not for Flippanter Tyrannus.
Any woman who would stand for an increase of 33% in the price of vegan gingersnaps is not for Flippanter Tyrannus.
Picking people up at the coop/health food store is more highly recommended. These people you can talk to about freezing tofu, the difference between red and green/brown lentils, or whether that weird falafel mix in the bulk bin is as yucky as it seems, or actually not bad.
The last time I was at a Whole Foods, it was very hot, and as I perused the insanely expensive cheeses (lustfully), an attractive woman near me was energetically and wantonly tossing cheeses, pates, crackers and such into her basket, declaring (to the general public?) that it was far, far too hot to be turning on the stove, so these things would constitute dinner this evening, thankyouverymuch.
I joshed with her: Oh absolutely, in these circumstances, it's got to be all fresh, all light, all uncooked, salad is the word of the day -- who's kidding who? She emphatically agreed, we smiled.
I could have picked her up for sure. But I was secretly thinking: Dude, you've got a good $45 dinner going there in your basket. I can't date you.
What's next, hipsters at the pool?
Oh, no, I don't actually swim: this pull buoy is ironic. Get it?
Picking people up at the coop/health food store is more highly recommended. These people you can talk to about freezing tofu, the difference between red and green/brown lentils,
Not only are these very boring topics, I don't want to set myself up for outraged lecture followed by instant breakup next time I cook a nice veal chop.
Indeed, marcus, they are boring topics. Why would anyone want to talk about them? Simply put, no one would want to talk about them at all. But is that not what we need most in our partners—someone with whom we can talk not about that about which we want to talk, but about that about which we need to talk?
"people think they might pick up someone at Whole Foods, but nobody we've been able to find has actually done so."
Obviously what's needed is a t-shirt that reads "I am the blue light special."
The schmanzy new Schnucks in St. Louis ca 10 years ago got dubbed the 'singles Schnucks'.
I can't tell you how much the idea of a "single Schnucks" cracks me up. Growing up, Schnucks was always vastly inferior to Dierbergs.
Pff. Kroger. I don't think I've ever been in a Kroger.
Trader Joe's in LA has been a pickup spot since forever. It was actually fairly annoying at times, because I would feel all this pressure to dress up nice and bathe before going to buy snacks.
Kroger-brand medium salsa is in my top five for store-bought salsa. It has yet to get me laid, though.
Ehh, it's an interloper chain from Louisville, anyway. (I think?)
33: Cincinnati, rather, but close enough.
This thread cries out to be merged with "Scratch": what food products do you prefer to make from scratch, but would rather buy at a store if doing so got you laid?
but would rather buy at a store if doing so got you laid?
Um, all of them?
I think we have to consider the mechanism by which the purchase of the product in question would lead to getting laid. Why should the purchase of that result in sex?
Oatmeal --> washboard abs --> sex.
Duh.
35: I don't know, the earlier thread almost convinced me that homemade mayonnaise might just be better than sex.
Bzzt, Blume! In that story it's the washboard abs that are getting you sex. You could be at the store to buy something else.
25:
Not only are these very boring topics, I don't want to set myself up for outraged lecture followed by instant breakup next time I cook a nice veal chop.
Marcus, why on earth would you think that being interested in tofu and lentils means hard-core vegetarianism?
Wrong, so wrong.
No! The person only knows about the washboard abs because they see you buying the oatmeal. (And as a faithful unfogged reader, of course, knows about the oatmeal-washboard abs connection.)
I mean, that's how it works when I'm not wearing one of my many halter tops to the grocery store, anyway.
What Marcus thought would not be unreasonable in my experience of who bought those commodities.
The person only knows about the washboard abs because they see you buying the oatmeal.
Yeah, right, I bet you think everyone you see holding his jaw has a toothache.
You don't even have to be a vegetarian at all to get all up in arms about veal.
44: They're out there, but it's not a very large set of people who would break up with someone over a veal chop.
Now, pre-grated parmesan on the other hand...
Oatmeal --> washboard abs --> sex seems more plausible than babyback ribs--> washboard abs--> sex.
Though if you were going to eat the food with someone, a big plate of messy ribs would probably be sexier than a bowl of oatmeal.
In my view, sex is about as plausible as babyback ribs.
Oatmeal --> washboard abs --> sex seems more plausible than babyback ribs--> washboard abs--> sex
It's the dose that makes the poison.
47:
44: They're out there, but it's not a very large set of people who would break up with someone over a veal chop.
Those who shop the bulk bins at the coop are a finely sorted breed.
Everybody gets confused about it. They think it's all like: Yo! I'm a leaf-eater, I'm obsessed with, like, nutrition, and what do you mean, you can't discuss the balance between protein and carbohydrate intake, and whether you should soak your black beans or not?
Dork.
The rich women there go out of their way to small talk. It's nasty, one more reason to stay away. TJs gals, though, if only I could find the nerve to speak up.
Oatmeal is the food of my people, dammit.
http://www.thebritishshoppe.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/Scotts%20porridge%20oats%20large.jpg
I refute your washboard abs thesis, thusly.
I eat just about everything, including veal, and I like to eat tofu right out of the container for snacks. Oatmeal is, however---as I believed I've mentioned before---teh nasty.
In re Whole Foods as a singles scene, I have been weirdly ogled at there before, and I'm glad to know that other people are picking up the skeeviness in the air.
This picking-up-people-in-grocery-stores is a terrible, terrible idea, btw. Grocery stores over a certain size make many people nervy, and some people, I've heard, are prone to acid flashbacks in them.
Speaking of pickups-- a guy tried to chat me up today while walking down the street and reading a chess book. He kept reading the chess book while he was trying to talk to me.
I turned off at the co-op, but maybe he was on his way to WF.
How was it that Johnson defined oats? Oh, yes:
A grain, which in England is generally given to horses; but in Scotland supports the people.
Oatmeal is good, JM. Maybe you've just never had it right.
Yeah, porridge is good. Sod the Scottish purists who say it should be cooked with just salt and water. It's possible to make it really nicely.
More barely relevant supermarket observations: the Smith's at Tramway and Montgomery is about twice the size of the one at Carlisle and Constitution. Fucking rich people.
I grew up on porridge, called oatmeal in the U.S. My de-ethnicisation hadn't gone that far. I make it well, to my own satisfaction, from cold salted water heated with the oatmeal in it. I'll lift the pot with the wooden spoon buried in it, like Alec Guiness in Tunes of Glory, to check for doneness. My kids like it too, and ask for it from me.
My wife's family has no feel for it and find it repulsive. Her grandfather, a Berliner originally, was compelled to eat Haferschleim on doctor's orders and hated it. It's the other word for it in my family.
Yeah, porridge is good.
Totally. When made with superior Irish oats, anyway. I have it most mornings. IYKWIM, laydeez.
I love good oatmeal and abominate the bad. Steel-cut oats or thick rolled, with butter, brown sugar, and good cold milk. I also make a delicious version of the savory Indian grain dish upma, using thick rolled oats. Properly made, the upma has a substantial but unmushy texture and is fantastic with mango or mixed achaar (Indian oil-cured pickle).
Sod the Scottish purists who say it should be cooked with just salt and water.
Oh man, this is bringing back memories of my Grandad's sourdough pancakes. He's the one with the most identifiable Scots background, and he grew up, literally, in mining camps in the back of beyond. God, those pancakes were gross.
Oatmeal is a perfect breakfast food in that it can be made sweet, as in 64, or savory, with a fried egg or two on top (though that likely counteracts its cholesterol-reducing properties). Steel-cut oats are vastly superior to the rolled kind.
How long does it take to make stove top oatmeal? And can you make decent oatmeal in a microwave?
I had an almond croisant stuffed with custard this morning. That is what I call breakfast.
You can make passable steel-cut oatmeal in the microwave, yes. Relatively low power, 3:1::water:oats by volume, do it seven minutes, stir, five minutes, see what's shaking.
I had a dutch baby with apricot jam for breakfast today. Yum.
Some humans recommend toasting the oats prior to nuking. This can be done the night before. I've never done it.
Steel cut, takes about ten minutes. I don't know about the microwave. I mean, dude, I don't even have a microwave.
I like the fancy steel-cut oats, but they take forever -- cook for a half hour, maybe? But Quaker rolled oats are also good, albeit not as good, and take five minutes. You might be able to make them in the microwave, but I have no idea how, and presumably you do have a pot and a stove.
Oatmeal, raisins, a little good maple syrup? Mmmm. Buck won't eat oatmeal, though -- he's a Cream of Wheat purist, which seems entirely pointless to me.
But twelve hands-off minutes. Stovetop is similarly uninvolved: one simply gets the water boiling, dumps in the oats, stirs, then simmer, simmer, jazz hands and shimmer.
Cream of Wheat is not pointless. You can lade that stuff down with a lot of brown sugar and butter.
I don't have a microwave either, but there's only a microwave at work.
79: No, but they're faster-cooking than steel-cut.
Cream of Wheat?!? Holy shit, did I fall asleep and awake amid the Amish?
For rolled oats, I really like the "Extra Thick Rolled Oats" from Bob's Red Mill. They take ten minutes of simmering, plus five sitting there with the lid on, off the heat. They do not collapse into mush. Toasting them in a dry pan for a few minutes first is a nice touch.
I do find that oatmeal takes a little too long to want to make it on a weekday morning, but actually it would be easy enough to do it while the coffee does its thing.
I very occasionally make oatmeal of a weekday morning. If I'm going to take time on the weekend, you'd better believe pancakes are involved, and waffles would be had I an iron.
Quaker not-instant rolled oats are perfectly OK but not good enough to make me want to bother eating them. I find Cream of Wheat distressing, for whatever reason. Apparently the rolled oats I like can be cooked in the microwave in 3-5 minutes, plus two minutes of standing quietly, though I don't know if they actually taste good that way.
Cream of Wheat is an abomination. It's basically wallpaper paste with a thicker texture, and if you let the leftovers dry in the pan *cough*the way my wife does*cough* the clean-up takes fucking forever.
The very best breakfast in the world, however, is leftover deep-dish pizza from Zachery's.
Pecan pie makes a good breakfast.
87: Thinly sliced cold leftover lamb on a toasted English muffin with some sharp cheddar is an excellent breakfast.
88: Pecan pie works at pretty much any time of day.
I don't really enjoy Zachery's, I finally admitted to myself.
Pumpkin pie makes a good breakfast, too.
Spam, egg, and blue cheese with thick bread and lots of butter. mmmmmm.
Pecan pie is always good. breakfast, lunch, dinner.
I enjoy Zachary's (which is so spelled). I have never had it for breakfast but cold stuffed pizza is generally a chancy proposition IME.
How long does it take to make stove top oatmeal? And can you make decent oatmeal in a microwave?
I use McCann's quick-cooking steel-cut oats unless it's a religious occasion. They cook (mix w/milk, not water) in about eight minutes on a low heat. Add maple syrup, or brown sugar & walnuts, and there you have it. Microwave is not recommended unless you want it to take about the same amount of time on v low power.
Cold pizza for breakfast is awesome, even thick crust stuff. There isn't a song about it for nothing.
The very best breakfast in the world, however, is leftover deep-dish pizza from Zachery's.
OH HELLS YES.
I haven't had Zachary's in ages. I think that needs to be rectified soon.
Second only to the properly made breakfast burrito. However, making said burrito takes a solid twenty-thirty minutes, which I think is too long for a weekday.
94: Heh. I've been humming "Don't Ever Call Your Sweetheart By His Name" to myself since comment 86.
73: I don't even have a microwave.
I suppose you also don't eat fast food and don't even own a TV?
Thanks for making that explicit, Bisquick.
Written in response to "You Never Even Called Me By My Name," no doubt. And oddly enough, onion rings don't keep for shit.
Any SFBA types wanna dramatically change Sunday night plans and scalp some tickets to the Pogues? There were plenty for sale on Craigslist, so I figure the crackheads outside should be willing to deal.
Mmmmm, oatmeal.
OT: Those who were discussing various translations of Tolstoy the other day may be interested in this article on the latest brouhaha:
Almost 140 years after first publication of the epic novel a nasty duel has broken out between rival versions of the weighty tome published in the US.[...]
What might have been an interesting quirk of the autumn publishing schedules degenerated into a full-blown, publicity-generating literary spat when Pevear wrote an open letter criticising Ecco for its "philistine attitude towards Tolstoy". Pevear's editor at the publishing house Knopf called the shorter version a "serious mistake".
And oddly enough, onion rings don't keep for shit.
Now Jake, a fried food item will only stay crispy for a short while!
y'all I really hate the way my much earlier comment re: the Steelers is not holding up.
105: It's not over yet. But if things don't turn around, plan to go watch music might be shelved in favor of heading down to sports bar with The Terrible Towel in hand.
It's not over, but it's ugly. The offensive line seems to have preceded you to the bar.
Today for breakfast I prepared a breakfast pizza (similar to that photo, but today's had jalapeños).
Crescent-roll crust, whisked eggs, toppings (grape tomatoes, peppers, {fake} sausage, etc.), and cheddar cheese. Feeds a household.
107: Just close your eyes and think of Randy.
I made pancakes this morning. Also, bacon and eggs. Cast iron rules.
The black beans I made last night turned out pretty damn good.
Did you soak them first, ben? And if so, for how long?
I did not soak them first, Stanley.
I haven't had Zachary's in ages. I think that needs to be rectified soon.
You are going to make me cry, it's been so long for me. I need to visit home pretty soon.
This thread was about oatmeal! For a while anyway. Ogged, since you seem to be (at least passingly) considering same, I have you know that I recently instituted an oatmeal breakfast regimen. I've been using the steel-cut ones, which take 30 minutes, but I just put them on first thing I get up, and then monitor them while I get ready. It's a world away from the instant or rolled kind, I believe. I like mine with strawberries, honey, and a bit of plain yogurt. Quite delicious.
In fact, I think it's almost done now.
Spam, egg, and blue cheese with thick bread and lots of butter. mmmmmm.
DaveL, this is your cue to weigh in with an endorsement of the spam musubi for breakfast.
Whole Foods is the new pickup spot.
That's odd; I'd swear I've seen this already and that it was called Tales of the City and set 30 years in the past.
You guys know the original reference to oatmeal was jocose, right?
1. You can't prove to me that anyone at the NY Sun has ever been on a date, much less picked someone up.
2. I once wandered into singles night at a Chicago Whole Foods all unknowingly. I got like 10 "Helloooooooos" in 5 minutes. I was very pleased with myself thinking, "Damn. I have got it going *on*," suffering as I do from body eumorphic disorder. But I sadly realized upon checkout that everyone there on that Tuesday night was there to be cruised.
body eumorphic disorder
Excellent.
McG stole my comment. That was really good.
You can't prove to me that anyone at the NY Sun has ever been on a date, much less picked someone up
A plausible assertion, but as it happens, I can attest that the managing editor of the NY Sun used to date this reporter from the Boston Globe. I know this because he cockblocked me. (I had a weakness for Jewish women journalists, a fact that Emerson can confirm.)
is that not what we need most in our partners--someone with whom we can talk not about that about which we want to talk, but about that about which we need to talk?
Ben, we need to talk.
w-lfs-n's partner
The Pope's confessor?
Dr. Frankenstein's human subjects review committee?
Cheney's conscience?
OFE, there's no love lost between me and WF. I haven't dropped all of my friends who shop there, though. I think that I'd have to abandon all the people I know on Beacon Hill if I did.
It's interesting that the New York Whole Foods seems to be being marketed as a good pick-up spot, because it's well-lit; and the Austin one is desirable because of its dim lighting.
Politics and my employment history notwithstanding, I don't know whether I'd want to date someone who shopped there too much. I feel a little bit like parsimon did about the woman who spent $45 on a dinner of cheeses. The excess of it all violated my sense of Yankee frugality. I like money as much as the next person and would, all other things being equal, love to date someone with plenty of it; but I don't think I could abide someone who wasted money on overpriced stuff. I don't think that the quality of the stuff at WF comes close to justifying the prices they charge.
126: Is that all about contrast --- NY by default is grey, Austin bright and sunny (and hot)?
I don't think that the quality of the stuff at WF comes close to justifying the prices they charge.
I've never been to a Whole Foods, but from what I've heard about it I really can't understand why anyone would shop there. Granted, most of what I've heard about it has been that it's really expensive, but still.
teofilo: I don't shop there, but I can sort of understand why the appeal in some areas, anyway. Some places I've lived, it's really really difficult to find good produce consistently. Even worse for good bread (does WF have a half decent bakery?). The cheese selection in the average supermarket is pathetic, too. So if they collect these things up in one place in even a half-assed reasonable way, I can see people who aren't particularly price conscious going there. I've heard they market `organic' in a yuppie friendly way, too.
Some places I've lived, it's really really difficult to find good produce consistently.
Huh, I live in a neighborhood like this right now. But do such areas tend to be convenient to Whole Foods? The one here is in the middle of a wealthy area with plenty of good supermarkets.
130: well I don't think they've actually solved the problem, but that seems to be a premise of the place (decent produce). Obviously there are lots of places that aren't close to a WF; I don't think there are so many of them, right? There are also lots of `good' supermarkets with pretty marginal produce departments. I'd guess it depends where you are, too.
131: In Boston, I think that Whole Foods produce is not as good as some of the stuff at mainstream markets like Shaws and Stop & Shop.
Their pre-made sandwiches are more expensive than those from Au Bon Pain, where they are freshly prepared, and not as tasty as the ABP ones.
Also, do not eat the prepared foods from the deli counter. They've probably been sitting around for a while--at least a week.
lw, The staff aren't so much indifferent as harried themselves.
132: well, you'd know better than I. As I noted, it's what I thought of as a premise of the place ... which might well not be reached anywhere.
I've never understood the appeal of sandwhiches & prepared foods from any supermarket, really, unless you watch it made. That sort of thing doesn't scale well.
The state of produce in typical markets is depressing.
Maybe an unkind word-- mostly the comment about the warm breakfast photos made me realize that part of what I don't like about WF is the elaborate copacetic setting which contrasts so sharply with the living people in the store. It's been a while, but I've worked retail; listening to elaborate food requests has to get old fast.
Other groceries are less polished and less dense with fussy people, so less contrast. I had to look up eumorphic, found some interesting paragraphs.
133--soup, I'm not just talking about the sandwiches. The premade salads, the vegetables at the salad bar, the cooked vegetables at the bbq are very likely several days old.
135: that's why I said sandwhiches & prepared foods . I meant all of it. These things just don't scale well.
I don't count myself among the WF haters, but I am definitely a skeptic. On the positive side, they have used their buying power to professionalize the supply chain and make a lot of organic products (e.g. spaghetti sauce, breakfast cereal) price competitive with conventional, branded products.
On the other hand, if you live amongst the WF target demographic, you can probably find comparable or superior products in almost every fresh food category just by shopping carefully and visiting specialist purveyors for your special needs.
Also, I tend to come down in favor of buying local products (e.g. produce from the farm stand) over organic products shipped over 1,000s of miles.
buying local products (e.g. produce from the farm stand) over organic products shipped over 1,000s of miles.
This is the crucial flaw in `yuppie' marketing of `organic' foods.
In most areas people live, you mostly can get better food outside the big supermarkets than you can inside. It's a tradeoff though, you're playing off time/cash/quality, so somewhere like WF is aiming for lower time for higher price and ok quality.
The thing that annoys me most about all this, is that we've spent 50+ years building infrastructure tha assumes that the right way to do things is big places far away that you have to drive to, with the premise of one-stop shopping. It doesn really work that well though. But we've been so successful at it most places, that all the other options are gone or really marginalized. It's one thing to stop three to five different places for your groceries if they are all in easy walking distance on a market street, but if you have to drive all over to do it, and *nothing* is walkable, it falls apart.
This year was the first time I started buying practically all of my produce at either the Durham Farmer's market or through our farm share with a local farm. I just couldn't get over the difference, and I started out skeptical. Cheaper than the organic section at WF or any other local grocery store, and twice as tasty. We've started getting all of our eggs and pork from the lesbian pig ranchers at the Farmer's Market, too.
I know it isn't an option for everybody, but holy cow did it raise my quality of life over the past seven months.
if you have to drive all over to do it, and *nothing* is walkable, it falls apart
Unfortunately, it falls apart pretty quickly even if butcher, baker and candlestick maker are all located in close proximity to one another, because a large proportion of the time spent "shopping" is actually spent queueing and paying, which is multiplied with every stop. And neither singles nore two-income couples have that time to spare. That's why these guys are running the mom & pop shops out of business.
through our farm share with a local farm
Bravo to that. Community supported agriculture is an unambiguous good, and not necessarily more expensive than supermarket shopping, provided you can unlearn the habits of eating fresh foods out of season and learn to deal with unprocessed raw ingredients. Here again, the luxury of time to putter around in the kitchen is helpful.
140: it's true.
Part of this is a problem of shrinking `leisure' time, which is pretty hard to change. On the other hand, there are plenty of significantly sized cities now that don't have a single decent bakery, it seems. So other priorities are getting hammered, too.
Cream of Wheat purist, which seems entirely pointless to me
Oh man, I love cream of wheat. It's what my mother would feed me when I was sick as a little kid and I think I have a lizard-brain level association between cream of wheat and nurturing comfort.
CSA's are a great idea, but not for everyone. Hard to pull off if you are single too (most of them don't seem really well set up to do small amounts like that)
You are going to make me cry, it's been so long for me. I need to visit home pretty soon.
I sense a plan for another SFBA meetup...
In my experience, a farm share is way, way cheaper than supermarket shopping, though some CSA farms are better run than others. As I found the last time I tried it here, it is a disappointment when it turns out that your farm only planted about six successful vegetables in a given year. (Also, I am spoiled and really really want my CSA to deliver to my door.)
146: Some places have food co-ops that buy multiple farm shares and distribute (and deliver!). This seems to be a good idea, and helps with the variability, too.
CSA's , like other things, seem to be clumped. You seem to either have no access, or a bunch of options.
I love the way upscale grocers will shill organic vegetable from Holland as if this isn't a fundamentally broken idea.
erm, to clarify ... nothing inherent about Dutch produce, just selling it here is crazy, just like selling california produce in europe.
I regularly see apples from South Africa in grocery stores here, which just seems insane.
I don't think that the quality of the stuff at WF comes close to justifying the prices they charge.
I think this is true for the word "quality", but not for the word "selection". I'd think you would have to be a plutocrat to go there for your milk and lettuce and cereal and granola bars. I have no idea why people are in the non-express checkout line. But I go there for the cheeses and sometimes fruits that exist at Whole Foods but don't exist in any form anywhere else.
So I guess my point is that the yuppies who waste money on staples there subsidize its ability to provide certain unique things now and then. But that is also sort of true of Trader Joe's without the overpricedness.
149: that's only sort of insane, because apples store and travel well. So in theory you could just slowly transfer a metric crapload of them fairly cheaply. Still crazy, but less so.
Cross- or inter-continental tomatoes, though? Insane.
In any rational universe, the hegemony of pretty, tasteless, produce would be a sign of the end times.
nothing inherent about Dutch produce
Actually, "Dutch produce" is a byword for "shitty quality" even in contiguous countries. It's all greenhouse grown, largely hydroponic, and optimally bred for shelf life and transport survivability rather than taste.
In any rational universe, the hegemony of pretty, tasteless, produce would be a sign of the end times.
Isn't that what it is now?
152: I find this very believable, but not the point I was trying to make, hence the caveat.
Your description has it the protoype for pretty much every major producer in the western world.
Let me agree with what's been said about farm shares, subject to these caveats:
We got our neighbors to go in with us, about ten years ago, so we got delivery. That was great, but more great for us than them, because if you get a bunch of a fresh vegetable, then you had better cook it. My wife was happy to look up a recipe for an unfamiliar vegetable, and cook it, but our neighbors where as likely to be embarrassed as pleased by this "opportunity," it turned out. Even we ended up wasting some of it, because it just wasn't well-timed. So we didn't have enough takers to make delivery worthwhile after two years.
We sometimes have the same experience even with supermarkets. We have an outstanding and cheap non-chain supermarket, one of several in the area, where the vegetable selection is interesting and enticing, and often go to the farmer's market in Evanston, too. But we end up not cooking them, and finally throwing out more times than we should, and that's demoralizing.
It's hard to think of a discontent I have, on any issue, that doesn't come down to "the way we live now."
I'm always skeptical about the people who say WF (whole wallet?) is expensive and only for the affluent - true there is a premium price on their products - but they are premium products.
I generally shop for selected pieces of produce (the quality is much better then Safeway/Giant) but not at the level of the local farmers' market. It's disappointing that a majority of their produce is industrial organic from overseas - but WF is doing a lot nationally to fund mid scale farm enterprise development and is actively sourcing more locally. The hard part is demand for local/regional products farm outstrips supply (hence in a market makes things more expensive).
As for their meats - almost all of it is "natural" i.e. raised without added antibiotics or hormones. While "natural" raises the prices - it should make you feel a lot better about what you're putting into your body. (70% of antibiotics use in the US is through livestock operations)
Paying more for food is something we should be ready for - especially if the ethanol charade continues to waste tax dollars.
p.s. the WF has some very attractive women - but very different then the TJ - TJ's ladies seem less pretentious.
At least in the Northeast, WF 365 brand milk is just Garelick Farms. When I had a 20% discount, I bought my milk there, because it was cheaper. Now, it's less expensive at Shaws, and Shaws has a decent selection of organic milk. I don't buy organic milk, but I could buy it at Shaws. I coudl also buy natural beef there, and teh selection fo deli meats is superior.
Trader Joe's is pretty awesome.
I'm okay with the idea of paying more for food, in theory. In practice, food is already a significant portion of my budget, but I digress. Whole Foods is supporting sustainable agriculture. It squeezes its suppliers just as much as Wal-Mart; it's just a little bit more effective at making liberals and yuppies feel that they're being virtuous when they shop there.
it's just a little bit more effective at making liberals and yuppies feel that they're being virtuous when they shop there
It's a mystery to me why people don't feel scammed on principle whenever this appeal is being made explicitly, by a large chain. Even if there are instances where it might be true, I'm very suspicious.
157 should say that Whole Foods is not supporting sustainable agriculture.
My intent is not to be an apologist for WF - since I think that they've played a huge role in turning organic into an industry and that their shiny industrial organic is unsustainably imported from South America and China.
BUT
Since Pollan and Macky got into a blog war last summer WF has stepped up and attempted to do more for sustainable agriculture. Their $10m loan line is just coming on line and is sorely needed since most farm programs don't provide funding for "Ag of the Middle" type enterprises.
I'm also surprised that you fault WF in New England where they have a robust local purchasing program - including a lot of regional work with immigrant and refugee farmers who are selling through their stores. (And getting top dollar - something Shaw and Hannafords won't pay - when you're a little farmer this is key)
They're not a farmers' market or a hippie co-op - but if you really want to make substantial change in the food system - then it's going to have be market based and in conjunction with some of the larger players.
At least their trying - which is more then a lot of supermarkets are doing.
haw--Part of my dislike of Whole Foods is purely personal. I also object to their labor policies. Those are separate issues, but they probably color my interpretation of the merits of their actions.
Hadleydoes buy some local food. The area with which I'm most familiar is vitamins, and one of the major herb companies is pretty squeezed. They actually refused to sell to vitacost and successfully defended an antitrust suit. I don't know what legal theory they employed, but this company's rep said basically that they felt that it was important to them not to discount but to have 'educated' sales people selling their products. In many areas there are very few independent natural supplement stores, so this seemed kind of dumb to me, since it puts them at the mercy of WF.
