Re: Division Of Labor

1

I, uh, have a date this weekend.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 5:35 PM
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Hands off my grampa, Flip.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 5:37 PM
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Amended: I, uh, have a date this weekend with a lady.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 5:39 PM
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Hands off my grandma, then.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 5:40 PM
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Amended again, for Christ's sake: I, uh, have a date this weekend with a lady who is not related to anybody hereon, to the best of my knowledge.



Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 5:42 PM
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What's the matter, our families aren't good enough for you?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 5:45 PM
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7

Orange you glad I didn't say banana?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 5:48 PM
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5: way to date outside the tribe, traitor.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 5:49 PM
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9

What? You want a cookie for that?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 5:50 PM
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10

Wasn't that obvious?

This is just a first meeting under the supervision of the mutual friend who recommended us to one another. Like the scene in Miami Vice where the Aryan Brotherhood guys are meeting the undercover FBI agents for the initial show-of-good-faith drug deal.

It occurs to me that that may not be the best analogy.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 5:50 PM
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10: wait, I thought you said it wasn't Becks' grandmother.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 5:51 PM
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If it's under the supervision of someone else, then it doesn't seem very date-y to me.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 5:52 PM
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12: well, you really need to get to know somebody before you can be sure they'll honor your safe word.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 5:55 PM
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10: Sounds great.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 5:56 PM
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If it's under the supervision of someone else, then it doesn't seem very date-y to me.

Well, some of us catch what candies fall from the sky without asking first if they're lemon drops or peppermints.

We had a surprisingly pleasant conversation by phone a few weeks ago, but haven't had eyes-on yet, and I doubt she has discovered much about me apart from what our mutual friend relayed, so I can hardly disparage her implicit preference for a first meeting with a third party to move the conversation along. It's sort of like mentioning that she has a party to go to later that evening. All parties can make smooth getaways if necessary.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 5:59 PM
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16

If you're psyched to meet her, that should be enough. Unless you're unnaturally smooth, I'm not sure I see the harm in a third party being about.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:01 PM
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17

It's just that I've never seen somebody go off topic on the first comment before.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:01 PM
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18

Unless she's wearing a wire.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:02 PM
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19

More importantly, what are you wearing, Flip?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:03 PM
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20

18 to 17.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:04 PM
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21

My "I [Heart] Toxic Waste" t-shirt, of course. What else?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:05 PM
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22

15: That all sounds good. And for a first meeting, likely to go more smoothly than a date-ier date.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:06 PM
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23

Meetup at Flippanter's date! Who's in?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:08 PM
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24

No T-shirts on first dates. Wear something with a collar.

The treat of 23 is that she's never laid eyes on you. If enough of us show up early, we can steal her away before you get there.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:10 PM
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25

That's what the third party is there to prevent, Wrongshore. Unfortunately.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:13 PM
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26

Unless you steal Flip's friend, too.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:14 PM
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24: Or we can say "My name is Flippanter: for we are many"


Posted by: feldspar | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:15 PM
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28

No dates unless you have enough for everyone.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:15 PM
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29

And they're smart enough for ogged.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:16 PM
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22: I'd like to think so, and even more to think that our mutual friend wouldn't make a point of recommending me to a female friend if she didn't think for some reason that we would get along well, but she's been so hard to reach in the interim that I have no idea what inspired her to act ("pretty," "feminine," "successful," "gracious" are all nice things, but not really poeticaally revealing).

I've jumped off cliffs with less trepidation.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:16 PM
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"Gracious" is promising.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:18 PM
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32

'Gracious' struck me, too. An underrated quality.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:19 PM
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33

<Ogged's Mom>How nice that you'll have this thread to look back on when the two of you get married!</Ogged's Mom>


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:20 PM
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34

You overrate my mother's subtlety in these matters.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:21 PM
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I thought so, too. She's certainly been polite, returning my initial call without undue delay and responding to e-mails very quickly, but "gracious" connotes something finer.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:22 PM
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36

35 to 34

Now I get to spend the next few hours grading.


Posted by: feldspar | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:33 PM
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35: something finer

So what are you saying here? That she doesn't make jokes about reactionary cripples?


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:37 PM
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34: One suspects that's not all she's overrating.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:40 PM
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39

If this date doesn't work out, my mother is available. Her 91 YO studmuffin died a couple of days ago.

The moral of that story is: Don't tinker with your meds unless you know what you're doing.


Posted by: Theodore Roosevelt | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:40 PM
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40

Sad!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:44 PM
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41

That is very sad.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:50 PM
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42

I was trying to explain the concept of grace to my undergrads the other day. Tricky. I think most of the anti-examples involved FL.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:53 PM
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43

Labs or Florida?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:54 PM
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44

The moral of that story is: Don't tinker with your meds unless you know what you're doing.

Not so fast. How do we know your mom isn't one of those black widow types?


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:54 PM
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45

Labs, obviously, though Florida would work just as well.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:55 PM
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46

She's not from Florida.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:55 PM
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47

Incidentally, in the context of dates, it is not irrelevant that the word "charisma" basically means "bearing the gift of divine grace."


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 6:57 PM
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48

Way to up the pressure on the son of a preacher man, Gonerill.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:00 PM
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49

All grandmothers are from Florida, Filppanter. Even Becks'.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:02 PM
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50

l before i, except after four glasses of wine.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:04 PM
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51

Her 91 YO studmuffin died a couple of days ago.

Shortly before my mother died at age 87, I found her first fiancee (before my dad) on the internet. We wrote him and he wrote back, but alas, my mom died before he wrote back.

Anyway I Google him occasionally, and this is the latest:

On 20 September 2006, Mr. M/ohr K/eet from George became the oldest gentleman to do the Worlds Highest Bungy at a ripe old age of 93.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:16 PM
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52

51: That is fucking hardcore.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:22 PM
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53

44: Racist.


Posted by: neil | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:28 PM
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54

Is it ageist of me to have been weirded out by the story of a 24-year old man marrying an 82-year old woman? She died shortly after returning from a honeymoon in Brazil.


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:32 PM
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55

Haven't you seen Harold and Maude? It's cute and quirky.


Posted by: neil | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:33 PM
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56

The sex, that is.


Posted by: neil | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:34 PM
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57

I didn't much care for that movie. The fact that I saw it in a high school class taught by a teacher who really liked it probably contributed a lot to that.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:36 PM
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44: She can't move fast enough to have pulled this one off. He decided to cut the dose because he was annoyed, that got him to the hospital, where three different strains of MRSA found him, along with at least one incompetent doc. So it dragged out for a month, complete with his kids split over DNR or no DNR orders, lots of screaming and crying, and so on ad nauseam.

'Twas a soap opera of the real flavor, with no artistic merit at all.


Posted by: Teddy R. | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:42 PM
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Is it ageist of me to have been weirded out by the story of a 24-year old man marrying an 82-year old woman?

That's high on the ick scale, especially considering this.

Their love is said to have blossomed when Mr Waveqche went to live with his future bride after his mother's death, when he was 15.

Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:44 PM
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60

I would normally say 'greeeeeeeen card', but that doesn't seem to be operative, so 'ewwwwwww' will have to suffice.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:47 PM
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61

52: World's highest bungy


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:47 PM
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62

59: It wasn't the elderliness that turned him on, but the death itself. Again! Now, Again!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:48 PM
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61: Hardcore, John. If he were to BASE jump off that thing, that'd be cool too.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:51 PM
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64

Free taco!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:52 PM
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65

If only Taco Bell weren't so disgusting.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:52 PM
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66

60: Call me cynical, but I'm thinking 'executor and main beneficiary of her last will and testament'.


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:52 PM
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67

66: You got no poetry in your soul, you know that?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 7:53 PM
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68

In other news on the ageism front. (via feministing and Saiselgy)

Aging German playboy Rolf Eden has rarely taken no for an answer. And he's not about to start. He has filed charges against a 19-year-old for refusing to sleep with him. The complaint? Ageism.

...

According to Bild Zeitung on Thursday, the 77-year-old Eden has filed suit against a 19-year-old Berlin woman for the following reason: Despite a night on the town with Eden, which ended back at his place, she refused to have sex with him, saying the he was too old for her.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 8:02 PM
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69

Jeebus. Do we have to settle financially now with everyone whom we reject sexually? 'Cause, if so, I could pay off my student loans.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 8:04 PM
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70

And the thread returns to the tarry pit of sin from which it sprang.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 8:06 PM
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68: I think that may actually rank as one of the ten stupidest things I've ever seen.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 8:06 PM
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I'm signing on to the class action lawsuit against every single Jane Doe who has every refused to sleep with a nice, toothless old man.

Lawyer up......laydeez!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 8:08 PM
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73

No, you can reject people sexually, but not with ageist hate speech. I believe that the latest Cosmo has some tips on safe rejection lines.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 8:10 PM
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74

57: Teo, was it an older female teacher?


Posted by: feldspar | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 8:10 PM
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68: Jaysus. The makers of Viagra have a lot to answer for.

The article notes that she refused his advances even after he played the piano for her.


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 8:12 PM
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76

Perhaps especially after he played the piano for her.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 8:13 PM
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77

Teo, was it an older female teacher?

It was!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 8:15 PM
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78

Are you Samoan?


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 8:16 PM
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79

Not very likeable, is he? Seems a bit unhinged, or "unclear on the concept" as Chicago cartoonist Joe Martin would say.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 8:17 PM
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I hope it wasn't a younger teacher. "Okay, kids, your teacher for this semester is going to be Li'l Madison Dakota."


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 8:17 PM
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81

I beg your forebearance while I relate my favorite joke...

A white-haired old West Virginian goes into a menswear store and says he needs to buy a tuxedo. The clerk asks him what size he wears. The old man says, "Oh, it's not for me, it's for my father."

"Your father? Your father is still alive? What does a man your father's age need a tuxedo for?" asks the clerk.

"For a wedding. He wouldn't miss granddad's wedding for anything," says the old hillbilly.

The clerk is dumbstruck. Finally he manages to to stammer, "Why on earth would a man that old want to get married?"

The old West Virginian looks around, then leans forward and whispers conspiratorially, "You see, son, granddad didn't exactly want to get married."


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 8:53 PM
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82

I just want to say that I am very glad that this thread has zero on-topic comments. But alas, I have nothing to contribute.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 9:01 PM
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83

Re 68: You can't believe anything you read in the Bild Zeitung. They are notorious for twisting the facts of human interest stories like this one to make better news copy. Unless they've got court documents, I'm not even prepared to believe there is a person named Rolf Eden.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 9:12 PM
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Are you Samoan?

Awesome.

All this is reminding me of the middle aged English teacher I had senior year of high school. My friend Brian sure seemed to get a lot of casual touching from her. Made going to class a lot more fun for me.

"How many days in a row will Brian get a shoulder rub? What a stud. Brian, what's your secret?"


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 9:23 PM
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85

83: Oh, there does appear to be a Rolf Eden.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 9:29 PM
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86

doesn't anyone want to get into a tedious argument about feminism and the equitable division of household chores?


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 10:55 PM
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87

86: Everybody ought to have a maid. Solves everything.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 10:57 PM
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86: in your FACE!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 10:58 PM
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89

86 -- Household chores are so hopeless.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 11:04 PM
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90

Everybody ought to have a maid.

You should get a foster kid. You can make them clean, and the state will give you money.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 11:07 PM
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91

You should get a foster kid. You can make them clean, and the state will give you money.

Man, that made me laugh.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 11:08 PM
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92

It's good to know I'll have company in Hell.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10-25-07 11:10 PM
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93

re: 86

A fair and equitable division is only right and proper.

My only argument is with the typical 'average number of hours spent doing housework' figures which are so riddled with lies they are useless. I think housework is second only to sex in the extent to which people bullshit when surveyed.

By which I mean that total number of hours per day/week, not the % of division. I completely believe that women continue to do far more than men. I just don't believe the average person does 2.5 hours of housework a day unless we have a highly expansive definition of what counts as housework.*

* looking at some surveys it looks like cooking and food preparation are counted, which makes 2.5 hours a day seem slightly less implausible.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 12:31 AM
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94

91: don't laugh, that's what my parents did.


Posted by: Martin Wisse | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 12:51 AM
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95

that's what my parents did.

Are you the foster kid? And if so, did it make you especially neat as an adult?


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 1:24 AM
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96

91, 94: As a small town MD, my father knew everything. He believed that one farm family did adopt kids to use as farm labor. They dropped out of school early and missed a lot of school when they were attending.

I heard a story of a sweatshop owner who wanted to adopt Chinese orphans for the same reason.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 6:09 AM
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81: Lake Wobegon is pretty sexless, but there are a few honky-tonk lowlifes around. One 70-year-old guy who put a big sleazy hit on my 25-year-old niece a few years ago had been suspected of being after my mother back around 1960.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 6:12 AM
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98

You can make them clean, and the state will give you money.

I initially read this as, You can give them baths and clean them up, and the state will give you money. Then I realized you were talking about housework.


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 6:15 AM
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99

I made this poor little fella as clean and shiny as a brand new nickel!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 6:25 AM
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100

93 is unclear on the concept of this thread.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 6:48 AM
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101

Yet another advantage of the relationship-free life. You do 100% of the cleaning you actually think needs doing. No more endless arguments about toilets and dust mice.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 7:06 AM
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102

101, like 93, is suspiciously close to on-topic. Cut it out, guys!


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 7:12 AM
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103

dust mice

Do people say this in English? I've only ever heard dust bunnies. But in German they're Wollmäuse.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 7:34 AM
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104

I heard a story of a sweatshop owner who wanted to adopt Chinese orphans for the same reason.

Slavery: now with grassroots support.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 7:50 AM
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105

suspiciously close to on-topic. Cut it out, guys!

Okay, you've all probably seen this already, but have a look at this beautiful motherfucking dog.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 7:59 AM
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106

Slavery: now with grassroots support.

Slavery always had plenty of grassroots support, and slaveholding or practical aspiration to it was distributed far down the economic and social ladder in this country, which made getting rid of it here very difficult.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 8:05 AM
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107

Hypothesis: Every human living North American style (based on everyone who's lived with me) generates 1.5 hours of housework a day. I've arrived at this after living with various numbers of people, I can't prove it, but I stand behind it. Does not include cooking, does include clean up after cooking. Works whether or not you're at home during the day; if you own possessions, receive mail and phone messages, and shed skin cells - 1.5 hours. So if you don't do 1.5, either someone's doing it for you, or your place is getting messier.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 11:05 AM
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108

On the other hand, while doing that 1.5 hours of housework you generate three minutes and forty-five seconds of additional housework that you'll have to do.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 11:08 AM
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109

90 minutes a day of housework, not counting cooking?

How would you categorize the various activities that make up this "housework"? Because that sounds about 1000% too high.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 11:09 AM
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110

Clean your home in just 5.4 seconds a day!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 11:11 AM
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111

Oddly, if you criminally minimize your housekeeping for 20 to 40 years, it takes the cleanup people only a day or two to clean up after you when you croak.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 11:13 AM
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112

Yeah, 107 sounds wrong. It's not orders-of-magnitude wrong, but unless you live in a huge old place it takes less time to clean daily than that.

Again, it depends how expansive your definition of housework is, though.



Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 11:14 AM
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113

111: proper tools and industrial solvents.

on a releated note ... bring on the housecleaning robots.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 11:15 AM
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114

There is no need to do any housework at all. After the first four years the dirt doesn't get any worse.


Posted by: Quentin Crisp | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 11:30 AM
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115

Just doing your part to halt the spread of antibiotic resistant bacteria, are you Quentin?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 11:38 AM
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116

Why are people not counting cooking as housework?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 11:40 AM
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117

116: because cooking every meal from scratch using only the finest, freshest local ingredients -- as we all do for every meal, every day -- is a pure and joyful experience, and should not be counted as any sort of work.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 11:42 AM
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118

bring on the housecleaning robots

I fear that the increasing brazilianization of our society militates against the development of housecleaning robots (Roombas notwithstanding).

A friend of mine did a study of the vacuum cleaner market in Mexico, and discovered that ownership among Mexican households is extremely low--in the single digits, in fact, compared to >98% in the U.S.

Basically, most Mexican families are either too poor to afford a vacuum cleaner, or rich enough to hire a housekeeper to sweep with a broom. I fear a similar dynamic would apply to the housecleaning robot in this country.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 11:44 AM
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119

Ah, but you're discounting Americans' fascination with gadgetry and fetishization of privacy. I foresee a bright future for house-cleaning robots.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 11:46 AM
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120

118: I'm thinking more roomba (roughly the same cost as a good standup, could use some improvement) than a luxury good.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 11:47 AM
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121

I fear that the increasing brazilianization of our society militates against the development of housecleaning robots

Hairless people still shed dead skin cells.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 11:49 AM
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122

Why are people not counting cooking as housework?

Perhpas because we're rapidly moving toward a dichotomy of cooking as either a hobby, or something that isn't really done (microwave, prepped food, take out, etc)


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 11:51 AM
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123

Continuing the pessimistic vein of 118, it occurs to me that widening inequality also contributes to global warming. I have heard that it is basically impossible to keep a house larger than 3,000 square feet clean without hiring ouside help: above that size, the usage of cleaning services skyrockets. And cleaning services are only affordable to large numbers of people because we have a skewed income distribution. So it's inequality that enables the McMansion lifestyle, which, between home energy use and longer commutes, is the major driver of our energy profligacy.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 11:54 AM
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Hairless people still shed dead skin cells.

In writing that phrase I knew someone was bound to make a joke along those lines. And I might have figured that it would be Sifu.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 11:56 AM
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The (smooth, shiny) low hanging fruit tastes just as nice, I always say.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 12:01 PM
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We have a new Brazilian au pair. A few days ago she asked me if could help her with with a problem she was having with an electrical outlet. She had a device she wanted to plug in, but it needed an adapter. I found an adapter for her, but I wanted to make sure that the thing would work on 110V power, so I was holding it, looking at it closely on all sides, etc.

I said "[her name], what is this thing, anyway."

She said, "It is a...how do you say?...depilator."

This led to a terribly awkward moment where I wanted to drop the thing like radioactive waste, but didn't want to make the situation even more embarassing.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 12:11 PM
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Because that sounds about 1000% too high.

Heh.
Leaving the bathroom no messier than you found it, including towels, the mirror, around the toilet, hair in drains, garbage pail, foot prints, toothpaste drips - I don't mean obsessively, just whenever you're in there, a few minutes.

Putting the dishes in the dish drainer away. Clearing the table, including crumbs and spills, washing the dishes, clearing the counters and wiping them. Tidying up around the kitchen, say 5 minutes. Getting rid of the kitchen garbage, if it needs it, changing the bag. If your schedule affects anyone else, checking the calendar for conflicts. If you use Britas, filling 'em. Ditto humidifier. Checking phone messages (you might not count this as housework) leaving a note for someone if you take a message for them. Taking the mail in, throwing out the junk mail, dealing with the bills, paying them or filing them or whatever.

A few places always have stuff piling up, taking a few minutes in the morning to put it away.

Something to do with laundry, doing it or hanging it up or putting it away, mending something that needs it, if you do that.

Cleaning up after lunch, if you eat lunch. Dishes, etc. If you use something up and you share with people, write it on the list.

If you compost, if you recycle, doing what needs to be done with that.

If you have a yard, or shovel snow, or have a garden or houseplants, there's a few minutes, or one big session once a week, /7. If you have a porch, giving it a sweep once a week.

Replacing things that need replacing, toilet paper, paper towels, toothpaste, shampoo, salt, pepper, the vacuum bag, dish towels.

I you have a pet, feeding the pet and give it water, or whatever you need to do.

Dusting once a week, /7. Vacuuming once a week, /7. Ditto washing the floors, cleaning the fridge, the tub or the shower /7,- basically an hour/7.

Cleaning up after dinner. The dishes, the stove, the counter, the dish drainer. Sweeping the kitchen floor at night.

Around 15 minutes for putting stuff away later in the day. I'd call it tidying if that were't such an anoying word. 5 more for getting rid of stuff, throwing it out or donating it.

30 minutes a week to repair something that broke, /7.

Bed making, grocery shopping - not included.

I don't count cooking because some people could eat cereal for every meal and some people like to spend hours cooking, and that doesn't affect the way the house looks and feels and functions over time.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 12:22 PM
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127. Bed making is bad for you - official.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 12:34 PM
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Does anyone dust anymore? I thought that was a lost art, like using a slide rule or diagramming sentences.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 12:40 PM
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re: 127

That's not an unreasonable list, although some of those things I don't personally do. However, I'd dispute that totalled over a week that they add up to 10 and a half hours. All of the daily tasks you list -- 30 minutes or so a day. Plus a couple of hours once a week to do the 'cleaning' tasks.

Of course there are the occasional 'spring cleans' that might take a whole day, but still, I'd dispute it adds up to an hour and a half each day. Although your definition of housework is more expansive than mine.

None of these would generally fall under my usage of the term:


If your schedule affects anyone else, checking the calendar for conflicts. If you use Britas, filling 'em. Ditto humidifier. Checking phone messages (you might not count this as housework) leaving a note for someone if you take a message for them. Taking the mail in, throwing out the junk mail, dealing with the bills, paying them or filing them or whatever.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 12:42 PM
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That dog's even more awesome than Ling Ling.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 12:45 PM
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128: SWEET, SWEET VINDICATION!

You have no idea the battles this issue has occasioned in my house.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 1:02 PM
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128: I didn't need to see that closeup of a dust mite. But who knew that a simple act of slovenliness could help kill the little bastards off?


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 1:02 PM
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127: Sounds reasonable enough, but the times depend on the size of one's house, don't they?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 1:10 PM
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128 is great.
Does anyone dust anymore? I thought that was a lost art, like using a slide rule or diagramming sentences.

I think ttaM's right about the size and age of the house playing into this. In this place floorboards expand and shrink, and the house breathes up strange things that have been buried under them - 50 year old wedding announcements, toy parts from the 1970s.

It occurs to me if I lived by myself in an apartment I would skip a lot of these things.

130 totally fair.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 1:21 PM
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It occurs to me if I lived by myself in an apartment I would skip a lot of these things.

Yeah, I don't do nearly this much. This seems about right for the house I'm housesitting, which is huge. They have a cleaning lady come twice a month to do a big chunk of it, though.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 1:27 PM
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That is, I don't do nearly this much at my own apartment.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 1:29 PM
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I wouldn't include phone calls if they were all about business - but once there's kids involved it's amazing how much time is eaten up with who's going where, who's home for dinner, who needs a ride, and extended family wanting to be called back - to me it all feels like housework. But I also count communicating about housework as part of the housework. Not everybody would buy that.

I notice I have left non grocery errands entirely out of it.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 1:30 PM
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It seems like a lot of the work you mention is closely connected to having multiple people living in a house.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 1:33 PM
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Yes, upon reflection I think my formula is not applicable at all to single people, as so much of it is based on not encroaching/not being encroached on.

When I lived by myself as a student I didn't care; it was just my stuff.

However, I'd dispute that totalled over a week that they add up to 10 and a half hours.

I can't believe it either. But It does, and I used to clean professionally, I work fast. Maybe I need vitamins.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 1:43 PM
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It seems like a lot of the work you mentionhousework is closely connected to having multiple people living in a house.



Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 1:54 PM
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It's true Brock, but I got the 90 minute figure from noticing how much time freed up for me every time someone moved out, and how that disappeared when someone moved back in. Not a whole 90 minutes per person of course, I didn't wait on them like a servant, but I think their work plus mine totalled 90.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 2:10 PM
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I must say that Sifu has disappointmented me with his failure to wring any humor out of 126. He just might force me to tell my other Brazilian au pair bare pudenda story.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 2:17 PM
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Do tell, KR. Nothing speaks to division of labor quite as eloquently as shaved snatch.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 2:20 PM
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Do tell, KR. Nothing speaks to division of labor quite as eloquently as shaved snatch

See 82, 100, TLL.

My flight's about to take off, I don't think I'll have time.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 2:24 PM
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OK, on the ground again. This story actually pertains to a different Brazilian au pair than the one in 126.

The scene is the bathroom, where mother and daughter are bathing together.

Daughter: Mama, why do you have hair there (pointing to pubic area)?

Mother: That's what grownups have.

Daughter: I don't want to have hair there. Will I get hair there when I grow up?

Mother: Yes, all girls have it.

Daughter: But [au pair's name] doesn't!


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 4:18 PM
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re: 140

Actually, I used to clean professionally too. I used to clean a mental hospital ward for about 30 people. That took about 6 or 7 hours a day, but the place was bigger than any normal domestic home and had residents who had less than normal standards of cleanliness.

I also used to clean a high school department. That was about 3 hours day and, to be honest, really needed more like 8.

I'm kind of lazy domestically, in that I tend to do the bare minimum and I'm fairly messy but when actually cleaning, I also work super-fast.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 4:49 PM
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I used to clean a mental hospital ward for about 30 people.

Damn! That is some big cleaning!
Fast is good. I get obsessive about not hitting a spot twice, not retracing steps etc. I like that part, when it gets a bit athletic, but the tedium of picking stuff up and putting it away gets me down and in my own house it just kills me.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 5:24 PM
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the tedium of picking stuff up and putting it away gets me down and in my own house it just kills me

Modern science has found a solution.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 5:26 PM
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Daughter: But [au pair's name] doesn't!

I know someone who figured out that her son was being molested by their babysitter when he mimed taking off a bra, but did it as if the bra had a clasp in front, which none of hers did. She asked what was up with that, and he told her that's how the babysitter did it.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 5:30 PM
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I know someone who figured out that her son was being molested by their babysitter when he mimed taking off a bra, but did it as if the bra had a clasp in front, which none of hers did.

Gawd, that's awful.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 5:35 PM
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I think it turned out not to have been too traumatic. He wasn't so young, and apparently bragged about getting some afterwards. He's married with kids now; really nice guy, doing fine. A happy molestation story.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 5:46 PM
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Doesn't the degree of awful depend a bit on the ages of child and babysitter? If she was still a kid herself it's inappropriate and she ought to get her ass chewed and babysitting privileges revoked, but early-post-pubescent experimentation isn't the same thing as adult kiddy-diddling.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 5:48 PM
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Cross-posted because I was trying to figure out how to word that 153 appropriately. "Happy molestation story" isn't exactly what I was driving at, but sometimes I think we work so hard at emphasizing that such things are not OK that there's almost an expectation that victims are required to be traumatized when some sexual stuff doesn't necessarily have to be more traumatic than other sorts of childhood weirdness.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 5:53 PM
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Yeah, we've actually discusses this before here, and even B and I agreed that a part of the trauma is the reaction and expectations of adults. Some things are traumatic in themselves, but some things that we think should be, aren't so much. I'll see you at the NAMBLA meeting, NPH.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 5:55 PM
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Modern science has found a solution.


is this what you're thinking?


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 5:59 PM
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156: Nah, I was thinking more of our old friend entropy.

155: My taste runs more toward the ones who would only get me fired, not jailed, but yeah.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 6:08 PM
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An acquaintance of mine from Colombia grew up in a household with servants. One day he walked into the nursery and discovered the nanny sucking the penis of his baby brother. He told her he was going to tell the parents, and the nanny said "Don't be foolish. How do you think I got you to stop crying when you were a baby?"


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 6:16 PM
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152: I was thinking "awful" in the sense that it happened to someone else, and not you. Another sadly illustrative story, etc.

(Not really.)


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 10-26-07 6:18 PM
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I find 158 very disturbing.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 12:18 AM
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159 sounds like an urban legend.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 12:19 AM
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I mean 158.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 12:19 AM
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re: 161

I've read a variation of 158 in some book on the Victorian era, i.e. among a description of Victorian child-care practices including gin-soaked baby bottles, laudanum, diamorphine, etc.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 12:27 AM
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sounds like an urban legend.

Other cultures yo. I believe Jim Webb's book describes something similar in Vietnam with a father and his young son.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 12:27 AM
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Victorians too? I didn't know that.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 12:28 AM
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Hi, Becks! I got home at 12:05 am.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 12:31 AM
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Hey! I was in your 'hood then. We left the show around 12:30.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 12:32 AM
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Shit. Well, I was busy lying around moaning about a what a long-ass fucking day I had. We took a wrong turn that caused the trip to be 3 hours longer than necessary.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 12:40 AM
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there are actually medieval paintings which depict mary diddling the baby jesus' penis around with her finger, as it was a formerly acceptable child-soothing measure. not just graphically, but it's clear that's what she's doing.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 1:48 AM
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I feel like crying after reading the last batch of posts.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 7:31 AM
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Somewhat on topic, we had a division of labor discussion at home a couple nights ago. I thought it was pretty even. She didn't. This issues can really sneak up on you.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 7:41 AM
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159 sounds like an urban legend.

Well, obviously I can't personally attest to the truth of the story, but given the circumstances of its telling, I am reasonably confident that it happened as he said.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 7:41 AM
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this s/b these


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 7:41 AM
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172:

Freddy Mercury told me a similar story.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 7:43 AM
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sounds like an urban legend

A couple of years ago, I was exchanging embarassing stories with a couple of buddies. I told a story about something that happened to the Dread Ex and me that was the most mortifying moment I've ever experienced.

One of them called bullshit and said, "That didn't really happen to you, that's an urban legend, I've heard that before."

I swore that the story was true, and we decided to look it up on snopes. Sure enough, there was a story on snopes that was pretty close, though not exactly, what happened to us. I had never told anyone, and can't imagine that the Dread Ex ever told anyone (it was, if anything, more embarassing for her).

I guess the urban legend originated spontaeously elsewhere. But it felt weird to be reading about my life on snopes.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 8:21 AM
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re: 171

Definitely been there. My wife thinks she does more cleaning, and she's right. It's not totally unfair -- 60/40 or so -- but it's definitely not equal. Although if you count cooking then it's fairer since I do more of that.

What's totally infuriating, though, is I used to argue with an ex about it, and it was completely the other way round. I easily did 80%* and she'd still insist it was mostly her.

* not because I'm special-nice or anything, but at the time I was largely working from home and studying and she was working fairly long hours in a more stressful job so I just naturally ended up doing most of it.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 8:31 AM
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NattarG:

Our dispute was similar. I do all of the grocery shopping and the majority of the cooking. She does all of the laundry and more cleaning of pans than I do.

I was counting the running around of my kids in the mix. She wasn't.

We reach some acceptable solutions, but the big issue was simply the adjustment of my kids in her life (after almost 4 years).


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 8:35 AM
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Come on, Knecht, you are not going to get away with not telling the story so easily. Not while I'm around, anyway. At least link to the story on snopes!


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 9:48 AM
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178 is correct.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 10:12 AM
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During the big masturbation panic of the Victorian era the rumored tendency of the nannies of the upper class boys to teach their young charges 'pernicious habits' to keep them quiet was one of the big fears.

It may not have been as widespread as the fears about boys learning said habits from their peers at school, but a lot of those fun pamphlets against self-abuse included a sorrowful story from a young man weakened by practices he was taught by his nurse as a young boy.


Posted by: winna | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 10:17 AM
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I initially read 180 as "the big masturbation picnic of the Victorian era."

What fun!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 10:18 AM
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"the big masturbation picnic of the Victorian era."

Well, the one in the river is clearly with the programme.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 10:28 AM
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C'mon Knecht, you're not going to get away without telling the story that easily

Unfortunately, it would be rather unchivalrous of me to tell it, because, as have previously noted, I surmise that a couple of unfogged commenters are personally acquainted with the Dread Ex, and another commenter who does not know her nevertheless knows her specific identity.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 11:04 AM
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Oh, so now you're not a dog?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 11:08 AM
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Do you still have the costume?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 11:21 AM
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My money is on photography.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 11:25 AM
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You can just tell me, Knecht. I'm very discreet.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 11:51 AM
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I'm the only one you can trust, Knecht. I'm a lawyer. Your secret is safe with me.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 11:57 AM
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Tell them, Knecht, and then tell me, and then I'll know if they spill the beans and I can report back to you.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 11:59 AM
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No dogs, no costume, no photography. Just a throat culture. And an unforgiveable breach of doctor-patient confidentiality by another physician in her father's practice.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 12:00 PM
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@123: re: basically impossible to keep a house larger than 3,000 square feet clean without hiring ouside help:

Or the bigger the house, the easier to Zamboni the floors.


Posted by: Econolicious, aka Anonymous D | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 12:03 PM
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Sifu's is much the safest plan.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-27-07 12:04 PM
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