Gawd, I hope you're kidding. It looks half-made.
Well I guess SCMT won't be looking all fancy in the bedchamber.
2: Terrifying. It looks like some horrendous underwear experiment gone awry. Or as if the underwear was a living thing that had been cut and sliced, and is now oozing its frothy, confection-colored blood out on your ass.
4 - What? Are you sure you're scrolling down to the right picture?
Becks, she looks like she's stepped into a cake.
Oh! I get it! They look like clams!
In reality I would probably never wear these. I'm a very boring person and tend to find one style of panties I like and then just buy 10 pairs. But I think these are adorable and am glad they exist.
I don't think anyone can argue against rufflebutt underwear on little girls, though. That shit's adorable.
First Blade Runner, now this. What's wrong, Becks?
They would probably look awfully cute on some particular person. I am not she.
What, you're just blatantly stealing post titles now?
They forgot to photoshop the model's legs in the picture in 5. It looks like she might actually have human skin.
Ogged is right. Dangerously human looking in places.
Here I am in Wisconsin. It's cold. I mean, it was 89 at home on Saturday. This is *much* better.
Man, that shit is cute.
I may be wrong, but I may be the sort of person who could pull this off. Although I have to say the ruffles seem kind of impractical for wearing with pants. Better to wear under a skirt, no? Or just for fun playtimes.
The ruffles keep the snow off your ass.
Driving over the state line the first three signs I read were "Welcome to Wisconsin," "FIREWORKS, CHEESE" and "Beloit: Gateway to Wisconsin."
If you drive up to WI from Chicago you go past a state sign that says "BONG RECREATION AREA." It's a miracle it's ever there.
FIREWORKS, CHEESE
Just about sums the place up, I guess.
14: I don't think they forgot. That's the point of the ruffles: to draw the eye away from the Visible Human legs.
I'll note that I've never been to Wisconsin and am going entirely by stereotypes here.
18: the first time I ever smoked pot somebody pointed out that "Beloit" was the sound of a marble being dropped in a toilet. I laughed for at least an hour.
I might wear the ruffly underpants. It would have to be under a skirt, though.
Wisconsin is fucking great. They drink a shit ton, everything is fried and they have CHEESE CURDS, and it's really really pretty. The people I know who are from there 1) like to party 2) aren't prudish about food 3) swear a lot. I love that shit, man.
Teeters right on the edge between cute and blegh. They probably look better in pictures then they would on a real person, though.
I don't think anyone can argue against rufflebutt underwear on little girls, though.
Eh, I'm sure someone can, and I'd bet someone already has. But I agree: on toddlers, it's adorable.
On grown women, though? Well, whatever, and far be it from me to issue arbitrary edicts pertaining to matters of fashion, or pertaining to any matters whatsoever. But I have to say that grown women dressing as little girls makes me feel a little uneasy...perhaps because it makes me think of little girls dressing as grown women?
25: I was thinking the same thing! Under a sort of poofy skirt or dress.
aren't prudish about food
There are people who are prudish about food?
27: everybody else only likes it because it makes you uncomfortable, IA.
29: By "prudish" I mean "picky and only like things a certain way and just so". You know the type I'm talking about. That will go to any restaurant, Indian, Cuban, Italian, American or Chinese, and order something that amounts to "inoffensive chicken."
I hate those people.
I like the first pair, they're all squidgly.
I don't think anyone can argue against rufflebutt underwear on little girls, though.
Sorry Becks, but as a longtime child victim of rufflebutt, I will argue against it. Even as a toddler I hated the we- couldn't- make- your- dress- quite long- enough- so- here's- something- to- decorate your- bum- that- we'll- all- be- looking- at thing. The horror.
That said, I'd wear those under the right skirt.
15: This is *much* better.
Of course. There's nothing healthier than a cold climate. If we weren't meant to wear heavy woollens, then what's the purpose of sheep?
What a pair we'll make, Penny, flouncing gaily along the boardwalk with unadventurous eaters festooned gaily beneath our skirts.
I want those skulls boyshorts. Or these. Hott!
The ruffles are cute. I don't know what all the fuss upthread is about.
I want those skulls boyshorts. Or these. Hott!
So close (to comity)...
The ruffles are cute.
...and yet, so far.
Will this be an "I am a [man/woman] of the people and my tastes in food and drink so illustrate; prissy foods that I scorn include..." or an "I am the sexiest sex machine who ever sexed in Upper Sexington, Sexachusetts, but my sexy, sexy sexing is populist and frank, without need or desire for..." thread?
If the former, I'd like to state that all food should be consumed in bar form; if the latter, that all bars should be consumed during sex.
I don't look good in babygirl things, but I'd buy 'em just for the feel of them under a skirt. Plus, I think they'd provide a few moments of mutual tactile delight. For shape though, those skulls panties were made for me.
for the feel of them under a skirt
I would think the ruffly parts might itch, no?
Of course. There's nothing healthier than a cold climate. If we weren't meant to wear heavy woollens, then what's the purpose of sheep?
Or toilets with no glass in the windows?
I would think the ruffly parts might itch, no?
Deliciously, I'd think.
47: ruffled edges on panties do not itch, at least from the second-party perspective, so I don't know why ruffled butts would, either.
50: They do itch a little, under pants, unfortunately. But I think the issue here is not the ruffles themselves but the stitching that attaches all those ruffles. Most panty-butt-parts are smooth unstitched fabric.
I'd only wear a pair of those rufflebutt horrors in order to confuse people with my panty lines.
51: you would think the baby oil and/or Gold Bond would protect against that.
I would look and feel horrid in all of them, I feel sure.
Or toilets with no glass in the windows?
Well, naturally. Been there, done that, and I'll spare everyone the gruesome details of that time I got frostbite on my left big toe because I had a hole in my boot (o! the burning! after the numbness...and I'm lucky I didn't lose that toe...). Those toilets are what will make a man of you, or else a woman, of course, as the case may be.
ruffles! gah! no! wouldn't you feel infantile?
my underwear of choice is the ultra low cotton hipster from gap. as long as they're making them, i'm buying them.
I am a convert to nice cotton boyshorts. I regret to report that my favorites so far is made by Calvin Klein.
favorites... is
The end of Daylight Saving Time is hard for me.
57: those are truly snappy casual, catherine.
57: Those are cute. I wish the hips rode a little higher, but I'm like that.
Actually I take it back. Nothing casual about them. What did catherine just reveal about her wax's nationality?
This was a pretty close-run thing (I'm black).
They're all good! Let a thousand panties bloom!
I'd have to resist the temptation to prance around posing like the Coppertone toddler in the ruffled panties.
Cala, why would you want to resist that temptation?
Weinerpwnd by mrh so I rephrase my response:
I'd have to resist the temptation to prance around posing like the Coppertone toddler in the ruffled panties.
Now I wanna be your dog
Now I wanna be your dog
Well cmon
Tweety, your keen and lively interest in women's undergarments, which may or may not border on an unhealthy obsession, is ... interesting. Are you prepared to talk fabrics? or are you yet another rank amateur?
63: didn't seem that close, Ben.
Between moves 8 (c5) and, say, 17 I was pretty sure I was just staving off defeat. Anyway, it seemed close to me, especially since I know I tend to overlook things and the endgame involved a lot of risks.
75: I'm not that rank! I showered like... I dunno, recently.
77: So you don't know your natural fibres from your nylons and rayons, is what you're saying. Observed, without annotation.
Ben, you derailed a panties thread to talk about ... chess?
Seriously?
Ben likes the realm of empirical experience.
You're only aiding and abetting, mrh. But watch where I go now:
So you don't know your natural fibres from your nylons and rayons
Soooooo, if I remember right, "polyester" names an unnatural fibre, and the term can plausibly be decomposed into poly + ester, "poly" meaning "many", of course, and "ester" meaning "chemical of a sort some instances of which smells nice". So what I want to know, science nerds, is whether I can get a fabric made out of the smell of vanilla or oranges or some shit like that.
It was strip chess. By the end, ben ended up wearing just his ruffled panties.
Did you not get the photos mrh?
Oooh, silk. Someday when I am rich, all my underwear will be silk and all my socks will be cashmere.
There will be NO ruffles on the silk underwear.
Sexytopic + Benw-lfs-n = Nerdtalk.
"some instances of which smell nice", that is. Remember, kids, there's nothing sexier than subject-verb agreement! Especially when the agreement is to indulge in NSA sex.
It was strip chess.
Am I the only one who has devoted literally minutes of his life to coming up with rules for "Strip X," where "X" is any board game on the shelf?
I'm not wild about silk underwear, to be honest, either from the first-person or second-person perspective.
I don't like silk undies. I really like lace, at the very least on the edges.
That is not what ester means, Ben, although esters do tend to have characteristic scents. Also, the kinds of esters found in scents are, I believe, quite differently adulterated than the ones found in synthetic fibers, but ask a (various) Dr. Science on that one.
I don't own Mousetrap, Stanley, but I bet I could come up with a decent strip version of it.
87: strip pente! Strip Hungry Hungry Hippos! Strip Magic: The Strippering!
I know that's not what ester means.
Strip Risk?
Of course, the original term for ester was hadassa.
Strip Risk?
Easy. One simple version would be to simply allow a player to exchange an article of clothing for more armies at the beginning of the turn, or for an extra die when defending against attack.
you derailed a panties thread to talk about ... chess?
Well, chess makes some people think about sex. (It takes a while for this to devolve into mayhem, but it's worth it. Appalling, certainly. But hilarious.)
93: "meaning," in your lexicon, carries a lot more meanings than I imagine meaning meaning.
I don't think strip games are that fun when one or more players is not nudity-averse. There has to be fear for any such game to work.
the original term for ester was hadassa
Oh, very nicely done. It's just too bad about your insistence on lace underwear.
There has to be fear for any such game to work.
Exactly what I think about Badminton.
82/86: if it's a modern fiber, it'll smell like sweat pretty quick if you are wearing it. Hope that helps.
I don't think strip games are that fun when one or more players is not nudity-averse. There has to be fear for any such game to work.
Au contraire. One could be non-nudity-averse in general, but have fear (even the good kind) about being naked in particular company.
I quite like the idea of Strip Risk.
96: Gawd, what a bad idea for a TV show. That's set-up for a disaster.
Strip Monopoly
I suppose the obvious would work: an article of clothing in lieu of rent, which could be purchased back at the original rent amount. Plus, clothing as a get out of jail free card.
I think the activities for UnfoggeDCon are pretty well decided!
That's set-up for a disaster.
You think?
"I'd like to move my cock in your—"
Heaven bless cable access.
Strip Clue(do), but you first have to dress up as one of the characters (1972 edition of course).
I have a panties-related question. Does one wear them with tights? I have, for pretty much my entire life, not done so, but recently, while changing for our high school reunion, sometimes-commenter Tonks was surprised to note my failure to do so. Aren't panties and tights somewhat contraindicated, or am I gross? There's a little cotton pad there in tights, as if panties are not wanted. Right?
I never wear panties with tights, but you know, that's me.
So what I want to know, science nerds, is whether I can get a fabric made out of the smell of vanilla or oranges or some shit like that.
Something only has a smell if it's volatile, that is, if it evaporates and wafts up to your nose. Once something is polymerized into plastic it's no longer in a single-molecule form that can evaporate, unless you actually burn it or corrode it with acid or something, in which case it produces all kinds of unwelcome volatiles as well. The smells that plastics have are actually artifacts of the manufacturing process, I think.
Don't many laydeez hate the word "panties"? Maybe that's why they're not answering.
I just recently had this conversation with my girlfriend, AWB. My thinking was the same as yours, and she treated it as male ignorance.
117, your girlfriend sounds like she'd fit right in here.
With that being said, some soft plastic things, especially rubber masks sometimes, have a great chocolatey smell. I wonder what that is.
But whatever it is, it isn't the molecule that was polymerized to make the plastic. That has been conclusively changed into a non-smellable form.
I generally do wear panties with tights, AWB.
Whereas this guy would be easily dispatched on these hallowed grounds. What a douchebag.
I always wear underwear under my tights. This poll puts me in a slight minority, but the poll also reports that a substantial minority of women prefer to wear garter belts with their stockings, so its reliability is in some doubt.
120: What's your reasoning, Blume? I could be convinced it is the right thing to do.
I think his definition of "sexy" is something more like "glamorous". It's a meaningless article.
Something only has a smell if it's volatile, that is, if it evaporates and wafts up to your nose. Once something is polymerized into plastic blah blah blah
Right, I know that. Or something like that. I mean, what I know is that the polymer itself wouldn't smell. What I want to know is whether you could take, say, ethyl hexanoate, which wikipedia tells me smells of strawberries, and make a fabric out of it, which you could then tell people was made out of the smell of strawberries!!! even though it itself is odorless, or whether only certain esters are suitable for the process.
124: I actually agree with some of his definitions of sexy v. beautiful, but his tone is pure evil patriarchal condescending loser prescriptive asshole.
I don't know how to find a good list of monomers that are made into polyesters. It seems to be a pretty big category of plastics. Go do your own dirty work.
I admit that in my male ignorance I had never considered the possibility that women would not wear panties under their tights.
It's not like I do it to be sexy. I just figured it was like wearing two condoms--not really necessary, and possibly detrimental to health.
123: Well, it's probably because that's the way my mom dressed me when I was little, and I've never consciously considered it since then. But I do often wear tights multiple times before washing them, so that's a reason for underwear.
But must we semper ubi sub ubi sub sub ubi?
30: I don't think I could get away with multiple wearings. I has a flavor. But then, I haven't tried panties, so what do I know?
I guess I've just always thought of tights as analogous to pants rather than underpants.
133: yeah, that's why you wear the underwear. Tights are somewhere in the in-between zone: more wearings than the one-day-only underwear, but not as many as the not-wash-for-weeks jeans.
If you wait long enough, they walk themselves to the washing machine. It's pretty awesome.
My mom used to make fun of me for washing my jeans every time I wore them. Now I wash them after two or three wearings. Fastidious am I.
I once wore the same pair of pants for about six months. They weren't jeans, though.
You'll wear your clothes out washing 'em, my dad says.
You're not supposed to wash them while wearing them.
I just learned that the decals and whatnot on T-shirts last longer if you turn them inside out when laundering them. This seems obvious now but I never thought of it before.
Also, it is possible to wear boxers more than once. But not skintight undergarments.
I just learned that the decals and whatnot on T-shirts last longer if you turn them inside out when laundering them. This seems obvious now but I never thought of it before.
I also recently learned this. I had been wondering why the designs on my t-shirts kept cracking and disintegrating.
Also, it is possible to wear boxers more than once.
Possible, sure, but would anyone really admit to doing this?
I don't think strip games are that fun when one or more players is not nudity-averse.
Simply restates the classic line from Metropolitan:
Playing strip poker with an exhibitionist somehow takes the challenge away.
I'm getting ready to go on tour again. I think I'll be packing a few underwear changes, a few pairs of socks, and a couple of undershirts, and some Gold Bond. Same outfit daily. Woo! I'll smell great.
The same pants and outershirt each day.
I think the implication is only one pair of pant and only one (non-under)shirt.
147: hell yeah. I do that any chance I get.
Pwned on an intensely boring detail of someone else's life.
Why does no one want to guess the awesome song?
If I told you "I'm listening to the greatest rock song of the current millennium", what song would you think it was?
I'm not praising this lifestyle, but we're severely constrained by the cubic footage of a Ford Windstar with five people and a shit-ton of gear in it.
154: Satellite, Dave Matthews Band?
I had been assuming that the list in 149 was exhaustive.
154: "Our Country"!
155, the shit-ton should drown out any other noisome smells you might produce.
157: I have to wear something, teo. What kind of rock band do you take us for?
Attention laydeez: I can't offer you much, but I do wear clean clothes every day. I also shower.
And yet somehow it's the rock musicians of questionable hygiene who seem to get all the girls.
Then how are you gonna attract the laydeez with your animal scent?
teo does not rock.
True. But I'm very clean!
163: We wish. Some of us remain tragically unclaimed!
Then how are you gonna attract the laydeez with your animal scent?
I'll describe it in comments.
Some of us remain tragically unclaimed!
Hey there.
Hey there.
Isn't this what Butt-Head says when approaching women?
I don't know how to transliterate that tongue rolling purring sound, but imagine it in response to 167.
166: Piano's! This Saturday! Be claimed! Scents free o' charge.
14: For some reason that model's blood appears to be black. But that LSD-like flush look on legs is hot hot hot hot
One should never wash jeans.
One can wear boxers 2-3 days in the cool months, with an airing in between, but only for a few hours in the warm months.
A few hours? You mean two pairs per day?
171: Fer serious? We should meet up! Although Pianos on a Saturday is a frightening scene these days.
You coming 'round these parts any time soon, Stan?
176: We're also playing Goodbye Blue Monday on Sunday, which is more in your 'hood, I think.
177: Nope. Gas prices suck.
dude 124 is coming in slightly on the defensive/arrogant side, but i like him.
180: No Boston this time around. NYC weekend? Two shows!
So I'm guessing no Austin dates, Stanley?
Damn.
183: We applied for SXSW. So....nothing.
Gas prices suck.
Tell me about it. I ran out of gas today, and when I filled up I realized that prices were about $.10/gal higher than the last time I filled up.
the only things i like touching my skin are wool, linen, and cotton, in that order.
GBM is rather out of my particular way, but I bet we could get a crew of folks to show up and find out who wants to sex Mutumbo during a particularly quiet song break at one venue or the other.
is the point of rufflebutt unders to make the ass appear larger?
wool, linen, and cotton.....IS PEOPLES!!11!ONNOEZ
187: I'm down. I'm in NYC Saturday and Sunday. We could do a day thing, too.
And when I say I ran out of gas, I mean literally. The car stopped.
I am in the blessed reduced wash period of NE life. In the summer, I sweat balls because it's 85 and humid. In the winter, for some reason walking anywhere sucks the moisture from my body into my clothes. In the (NE-optional) spring and fall, I can do laundry no more than once a week. Because my life is small, this fills me with pride.
193: You had your date with you in the car though, right? Smoooove!
No, just me. My next date's not until Saturday.
You could "accidentally" run out of gas again.
On second thought, maybe that's a bad idea.
It once happened to my parents half way between here and Santa Fe. I hate this car.
The next date is in her neck of the woods, anyway. As was the last one, come to think of it.
Is this the 18 year old alcoholic?
No, this is the 19-year-old Orthodox Jew.
Running out of gas with her in the car would be a fun, mutually rewarding adventure.
Well, I just filled up the tank, so that adventure will have to wait for a future date.
The Larry David ski-lift episode comes to mind. In other voyeuristic relationship news, I conclude that AWB must have had some kind of luck, because she hasn't mentioned the word "June" in like two weeks.
Judging from the other thread, I doubt it.
Anyway, I should go to bed. Tonight's my last night in this godforsaken mansion; hooray!
If she's an Orthodox Jew, you'll have to marry to ever touch her bare skin, no? Less gossip for Unfogged!
This has been an illuminating thread...I think I'm ruining two of my favorite jeans by washing them after every two or three wearings.
Stanley: coming to DC?
204: Still June. Just gone somewhat dormant. I go out a lot, more than I have in years, but I'm trying to break old, easy patterns.
206 to 201, among others.
Also: this has been an awesome Unfogged thread! Doff your panties and take a bow, everybody!
206: no DC show this time around. Philly. And Richmond. Full schedule here, as long as I'm shilling.
207: Dormant? I 'd call that a pause to maintain optempo. I just flirted successfully tonight for the first time in ages, and am quite pleased with myself. As you sink into hermitry, the small pleasures are magnified.
Richmond, but no DC? Pffft. This is our nation's capitol we're talking about.
211: If you're offering us a show on 11/14, we're only too willing to play. DC's harder to play than NYC. Fact.
I wish I was connected enough to do that. You're right that DC doesn't have enough small clubs, in the city it seems like it's only Rock and Roll Hotel, 9:30 Club, and that other one.
Maybe you could play the Flophouse.
I'm holding out for my re-drum-off with Spackerman. But I appreciate the good will.
169: That's "Uh huh uh, hey, bay-beh... Come to Butt-Head...."
I also recently learned this. I had been wondering why the designs on my t-shirts kept cracking and disintegrating.
It also preserves the colors. It's a best-practices technique for laundry-doing.
Also, use cold water wherever feasible; bonus points for saving energy.
and a couple of undershirts
As long as we're on undergarment etiquette, can someone tell me when it became preferred practice to wear crew neck undershirts under v-neck shirts? OK, I know it's been forever, but why?
Running out of gas with her in the car would be a fun, mutually rewarding adventure.
I once managed to run out of gas while driving my boss back from a client meeting. I was the lowest guy on the totem pole, we were driving through a snowy mountain road in Austria, and I didn't take notice of the little light on the dashboard of the rental car that indicated we were almost out of fuel (it had been a stressful day).
I got to hike through the snow in my suit and loafers to the next village to bum a liter of gasoline from a farmhouse--enough to make it to the next service station.
When we finally made it to Vienna that evening, we ended up with his wife in a bar called "Spiritus Sanctus" that played Mozart at ear-splitting volume and had little shrines to composers and poets in sconces on the walls. We drank tequila until I had to be dragged back to the hotel. So ended my 24th birthday.
You're right that DC doesn't have enough small clubs
Too bad there's no more DC Space. It was an old alternative art space on E St., around the corner from the old 9:30. I blame a couple shows there in the early 80's for the fact that I'm already wondering about hearing aids.
I used to think DC was a decent music city - is that not true any more? Ah, what the republican revolution has wrought.
I always wear underwear under tights, AWB. Part of that is a remnant of my high school's "two layer rule", which was that there must be a minimum of two layers under your skirt between your lady bits and God.
(tights + underwear or underwear + shorts or tights + underwear + shorts)
I've never known anyone who didn't wear underwear under tights.
221: That rule makes perfect sense. God can see into the inner recesses of one's heart, but is easily foiled by an extra layer of cotton.
I've never known anyone who didn't wear underwear under tights.
I have observed data points supporting both positions, but one argument in favor of AWB's practice is that the pictures on the package always show the women wearing tights without anything else.
OTOH, I am sympathetic to Blume's re-wearing philosophy on practical grounds.
223: See, I was thinking that Becks's was a weirdly prurient god. I feel sure there is some connection between that and her love of frightening underwear, but I'm unsure what it is.
two layers under your skirt between your lady bits and God the HS quarterback. Otherwise known as "defense in depth".
221: Unfortunately, the online bumper sticker maker won't create a permalink to 'God Hates Camel Lips'.
What is this with you and the quarterback? Yesterday he was a nightmare threat to daughters born and unborn.
Ours was a nice kid, who got what he wanted, but was I think easy to avoid, and none too bright, neither.
Ours was a nice kid
So was ours, actually. One of the best.
I was speaking of the proverbial HS quarterack, and alluding to the discussion of yesterday.
My wife is one who seems to dislike the word "panties," but I wouldn't draw any conclusions. I certainly don't have a big enough date set to track usage outside fora like this.
the pictures on the package always show the women wearing tights without anything else
That's probably because underwear + tights is pretty unsexy. Actually, tights in general are pretty unsexy. But so practical in comparison to giant ouchie elastic around your thighs or to garter contraptions.
Or those stockings with the silicone garters that are supposed to stay up of their own accord, but in fact do not.
data set, although date set kinda works, although seriously out of date. I see many more than I speak about.
Not to be a scold, but when one's data set conflicts with a stereotype, one should probably make an effort to stop citing the stereotype. At the very least, we need fresh stereotypes.
My mother wore her nylons without underwear, which I always thought was gross. But then, I still pointed and laughed at the girls in ballet who wore underwear under their tights and leotards, so I suppose I'm just inconsistant.
I'm sure you were very nice when you were the star quarterback, JMcQ.
Are you kidding? Everyone knows hot chicks don't give it up for nice guys.
but when one's data set conflicts with a stereotype, one should probably make an effort to stop citing the stereotype
Mrs. Ruprecht dated the HS quarterback (yeah, she was *that* girl), and he really did fit the stereotype: excessive self-regard, drunken lechery, abusive 'roid rages, the whole nine yards. He got recruited to an NCAA Division I football program, but ended up playing backup behind a guy who won the Heisman. I think today he has a landscaping business or something.
An ex of mine had a couple pairs of those. They were very cute on her, but primarily for fun playtimes.
Re: 146: T-shirt decals/printing: They also last longer if the shirts are air-dried instead being tossed into the dryer.
Re: 232: Thigh-highs: LB, you may have tried the wrong brand. I swear by Jockey-for-Her, loathing tights/pantyhose as I do.
Ruffled panties? The fetishists will be thrilled...
I have a pair of (cotton, thank you) underwear with skulls all over them and ruffles on the butt. They're awesome.
You can only really wear them under non-skin tight jeans, though, otherwise the ruffles just look like some kind of weird crunched-up fabric. Which I guess they are.
the ruffles just look like some kind of weird crunched-up fabric
Or, like, elephant skin on your but.
