Re: To Bury Fafblog

1

I never found it particularly amusing. Maybe I'll find it hilarious now.

In other news - since I'm piping up - at the party I was at last night, Turbo from Breakin' (and Breakin' 2: Electric Boogaloo) performed his signature moves. He's still got it.


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:02 PM
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It really is Slate week, here. I don't read Slate anymore for a reason, you know.

Is contrarianism all you have in common with Kaus, ogged?


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:03 PM
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I have no idea where the anger could be coming from. It's quite mysterious.

But lots of it is still funny. "Fafblog Interviews the Democratic Party" and "A Serious Philosophical Discussion on Utilitarianism versus Deontology" still make me chuckle.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:04 PM
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All right, I'll play along. Here's a brilliant and funny Fafblog post, with no anger soever. Maybe wist, but who hates wist?


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:06 PM
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I still think they're funny, but I'm a simple, silly, person.

On being 'angry' -- do you think they looked less angry to you at the time because you didn't agree with them quite so much? The 'how to get out of Iraq' post I love is from 2004, and all sorts of sensible people were resisting the idea for years after that, so it looked cutely wacky rather than so obviously right that saying it at all seems overstated.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:07 PM
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4: I love that one. I can't get past this line:

"An those duck's tears went on to form the Cuyahoga River,"

without starting to make little snorting noises.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:08 PM
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5: yeah. fafblog was just ahead of the curve about that stuff, and not making excuses for this admin. I can't see not understanding the anger, as it seemed to stem from a pretty clear-eyed view of how badly the country was getting fucked over.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:09 PM
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Dylan, Fafblog, Arcade Fire -- which hip icon will these brave contrarians smash next? I'm bating my breath forthwith. The suspense kills.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:09 PM
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To be fair, Fafnir did write this:

Gene Wolfe is a punk. He also greedily ate my fudgcicle once while signin my copy of "The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories." I said "hey gene wolfe that is my fudgcicle" an he said "maybe you only THINK it is your fudgcicle because you are plaaaaauged by the ghooosts of meeeeemory. wooooooo!" all the while makin wiggly fingers. And I went home thinkin that maybe I really was plagued by the ghosts of memory and maybe I wasn't who I thought I was, was I Fafnir or was I Gene Wolfe, or was I a butterfly dreaming I was Gene Wolfe dreaming I was Fafnir? And the next day I woke up an realized that punk had just eaten my fudgcicle.Gene Wolfe is a punk. He also greedily ate my fudgcicle once while signin my copy of "The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories and Other Stories." I said "hey gene wolfe that is my fudgcicle" an he said "maybe you only THINK it is your fudgcicle because you are plaaaaauged by the ghooosts of meeeeemory. wooooooo!" all the while makin wiggly fingers. And I went home thinkin that maybe I really was plagued by the ghosts of memory and maybe I wasn't who I thought I was, was I Fafnir or was I Gene Wolfe, or was I a butterfly dreaming I was Gene Wolfe dreaming I was Fafnir? And the next day I woke up an realized that punk had just eaten my fudgcicle.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:11 PM
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Denzel Washington and Russell Crowe: are they frauds, or just hacks?


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:12 PM
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which hip icon will these brave contrarians smash next?

Jonathan Coulton and John Hodgman had better watch it, is all I'm saying.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:15 PM
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I'm guessing Jon Stewart and/or Stephen Colbert are next on the list. or else, DailyKos.


Posted by: neil | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:15 PM
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Unfogged comment threads -- they aren't really all that long.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:16 PM
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At least Fafblog is still better than Seinfeld.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:16 PM
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Underrated genius: the new Britney Spears album.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:17 PM
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Thaddeus Venture: Visionary, Humanitarian, Loving Father.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:19 PM
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When I wrote this comment yesterday, I thought I was joking.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:20 PM
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Question -- Did Fafblog's painfully hideous colorscheme add to the experience, or would the posts still have been as funny if you didn't have to squint to shade your eyes from the awfulness.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:21 PM
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I didn't get into Fafblog at its heyday. It's okay.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:22 PM
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Is contrarianism all you have in common with Kaus, ogged?

Also, I presume, celibacy.



Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:22 PM
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The colour scheme always reminded me of the Joker for some reason. It wasn't necessary, but somehow it worked.

Budweiser: it's really quite good! (Oh wait, that one's taken...)


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:26 PM
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"Althouse: an underappreciated national treasure"

"Instapundit: There's a reason he's the web's most popular blogger"


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:29 PM
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I didn't get into Fafblog at its heyday. It's okay

Right; we change and so do blogs. I'm sure I visited here several times in the first few years without liking it.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:29 PM
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20: Contrarianism and celbacy are really both underrated. Two great tastes that taste great together!


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:30 PM
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I never loved Fafblog, but I just read "A Serious Philosophical Discussion of Utilitarianism versus Deontology," and I thought that it was very funny.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:35 PM
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I'm sure I visited here several times in the first few years without liking it.

Same here. I had it favorited for a while, then deleted the bookmark after Unf left, and then somehow got drawn back in.

Fafblog had flashes of pure genius, but I never had an appreciation for it in the way that, say, Delong did.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:36 PM
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Is that the exploding fat man stuck in the mine?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:36 PM
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20: I was thinking of a shared fondness for goats.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:39 PM
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Ogged is Kaus squeezed tall.

I have unbated my breath. "Britney is really good!" is the third shoe.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:39 PM
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Wait, I just read that utilitarianism-deontology thing and totally missed the funny.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:39 PM
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Right; we change and so do blogs. I'm sure I visited here several times in the first few years without liking it.

My first experience with Unfogged was clicking over from LGM and seeing Ogged (unless it was Bob) saying something enraging about Howard Dean and Iraq, and I promptly stopped reading it ever again. And that little boy who nobody liked grew up to be... Roy Cohn.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:42 PM
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LizardBreath in 27: Is that the exploding fat man stuck in the mine?

Yes.

Labs, I am an unsophisticated person and philosophically ignorant. I'm sure that it isn't funny for an ethicist.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:43 PM
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I have unbated my breath. "Britney is really good!" is the third shoe.

See, that's more Sasha Frere-Jones-style contrarianism of the anti-intellectual variety. I think the next example will be something like "Margaret Atwood blows and Doris Lessing is so much better".


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:44 PM
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30: Ham jello, man. It's Giblets' ham jello. What's not to like?


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:45 PM
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There's a right way and a wrong way to go about Britney criticism. She's working in a genre, and if you scorn the entire genre you won't like her stuff, but that's not very interesting.

The album is pretty good for what it is; this has everything to do with the production and very little to do with her.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:46 PM
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34: I think the dignified and intellectual among us fail to fully appreciate how funny arguing over liquefied pork products is.

And I hate them all for it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:47 PM
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everything to do with the production and very little to do with her.

which is a perfectly good reason to scorn the genre when you get down to it.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:48 PM
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While the political satire is often on the mark, it's the whimsical, absurdist, side, boundlessly imagination that makes it brilliant.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:48 PM
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I can't imagine not enjoying Fafblog Interviews the Democratic Party. "I can wrestle a buffalo" still makes me laugh. But, Fafblog, like all of us, has its share of misses. I'm not sure we should hold that against it, or us.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:49 PM
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I could never make myself read fafblog on a regular basis, though. I think it's the rare blog that's better in large doses.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:50 PM
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37: I don't think so. About 75% of what I like about Public Enemy has very little to do with Public Enemy; it's the Hank Shocklee stuff that's interesting to me. Therefore, if you don't agree with me about Britney, you're a racist.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:50 PM
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Or maybe they're just uneven. The Poor Man's even better, anyway.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:51 PM
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Someone has to check the medicine cabinet at Unfogged Central.

OK, the fourth shoe?

"Frampton: Father of Punk"


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:53 PM
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Tim, buffalo-abuse is a touchy topic for LB.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:54 PM
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35: The album is pretty good for what it is;

I feel like I've unwittingly conjured up something terrible.

36: And I hate them all for it.

Not to worry. Giblets will avenge us.

I wish The Poor Man would just make the full-on transition to sportsblogging and get it over with.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:55 PM
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Man, Moss's one-handed catch was beautiful. Even Dungy couldn't help but smile.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:57 PM
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I like reading Fafblog out loud.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:57 PM
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Is a recitation of simple pleasures out of place here? Tomtom club, say. Or Giornale nuovo , sadly just ceased. Chopin's nocturnes. Freshly baked cookies.
Or, especially for the haters, prawn mayonnaise, with bootleg Neil Young played a little too loudly. I'll stop.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:58 PM
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43: Emerson, you've chosen brilliantly. I love to annoy you, but I loathe Peter Frampton. Caught!


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 12:58 PM
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I never really read Fafblog but the comment by Yglesias in this thread (tangentially related to Fafblog) makes me chuckle.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:00 PM
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it's the Hank Shocklee stuff that's interesting

Word.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:01 PM
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41: I can't wait for the new season of The Wire, either! I love telling my fellow honkies that they're racist!


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:03 PM
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I never thought baa was that incisive.


Posted by: Standpipe Bridgeplate | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:04 PM
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Fafblog is totally not going to link your site when they come back, ogged.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:15 PM
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Hypothesis: people who didn't find Fafblog funny are offensively earnest.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:29 PM
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I bet you people wouldn't like molesworth either. Savages.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:31 PM
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Why is my gas fireplace making this awful chemical smell? Am I going to blow up?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:36 PM
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So almost half the people agree with me, but I'm trolling? Liberals are so intolerant of dissent.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:42 PM
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Am I going to blow up?

Is there a fire lit? If not, then yes, you will probably blow up. If there is a fire lit, then it is possible you will blow up, but less likely.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:44 PM
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Where did someone use the word "troll," Mr. Making-Shit-Up-Just-to-Pick-a-Fight?

I thought the stereotype was that liberals had no sense of humor, and were offensively earnest.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:44 PM
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Those are your lickspittles, lackeys and running dogs, Ogged. You can't bribe, deceive, and intimidate everyone.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:44 PM
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There's a fire, yes. Which is why I don't understand why it's smelling so awful. It wasn't yesterday.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:45 PM
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Follow the link in 17, B, and all the contrarianism/Kaus comments are basically accusations of trolling. And it's feminists who have no sense of humor (they sometimes overlap with liberals, of course).


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:46 PM
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Is it the first seasonal use of the gas fireplace? I always expect a funny chemical smell the first time I use anything. Granted, something involving gas is more troubling than, say, a blender, but still.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:47 PM
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feminists... sometimes overlap with liberals

Pervert.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:49 PM
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63: Link shmink. "Basically" sounds like something *I'd* say in an argument, and you'd be all bitching about how I was being slippery or some wussy nonsense like that.

64: It isn't! I've been using it to heat the l.r. instead of using the central heating to heat the whole house.

Maybe it's some chemical smell from the stupid-ass dental work I just had, and only my teeth will blow up.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:49 PM
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Pervert

I didn't say I like it, LB, but I know people who do.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:49 PM
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it's feminists who have no sense of humor (they sometimes overlap with liberals, of course)

What glass houses. Ogged, you have never had a sense of humor in all the years I've read this blog, you prissy little stick-up-the-ass.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:50 PM
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Speaking of feminists and liberals, Katha Pollitt's essays about her Marxist ex just go to show what I've always said about leftier-than-thou men.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:51 PM
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Stras, I'm totally funny. Trust me.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:52 PM
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what I've always said about leftier-than-thou men

That they all have webbed toes and a superfluous nipple? (Sorry, it's more fun to speculate than to look up the essays.)


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:53 PM
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In my heart, I know I'm funny.


Posted by: Lieutenant Hawk | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:54 PM
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71: Nothing so interesting, no.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:54 PM
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a superfluous nipple

"Extra" I can see, but "superfluous?" Either each nipple on a man is superfluous, or none are, in which case, the question is how many is too many?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:57 PM
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Stras, I'm totally funny. Trust me.

You aren't funny; you're interminably stuffy. Even in this post your principal objection to the humor in question is that it basically ruffled your feathers ("what! anger in humor? outrageous! where are the light observational quips on modern grooming and grocery shopping the modern man seeks for a truly sophisticated laugh?").


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:58 PM
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74: When painting a leering face on your torso, you should have only enough nipples to function as a pair of "eyes." Anything over and above that is superfluous.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:59 PM
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Christ. Here we go again.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:59 PM
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Is there some kind of "team up on Ogged" thing going on these days? Why didn't I get the fucking memo?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 1:59 PM
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I think my humor might be too sophisticated for you and your ilk, Jones. Anyway, it's not as if I'll demonstrate via argument that Fafblog is overrated, but I didn't say that I don't like angry humor, just that Fafblog was more anger than humor.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:00 PM
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Stras-as-comedy-critic: very funny.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:02 PM
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Stras, to what extent are you kidding? If you were kidding, it would be a little bit funny, but if you weren't kidding, it would be extremely funny.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:03 PM
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Accusations of trolling? Trolling is totally awesome, dude. Trolling is the most creative art form since commedia dell'arte. Trolling is the Hank Shocklee of comment boards.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:04 PM
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Ogged, we've seen before that you tend to label "angry" anyone that was right about Iraq before you were. So yes, I can imagine that if you were reading Fafblog - or any blog to the left of Mickey Kaus, really - back in 2003 or 2004, you might find it too shrill to be funny, because you were one of the ones they were laughing at.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:06 PM
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Stras, my brother in zen, you seem to have misunderstood the post, in which I said that I liked Fafblog at the time, but find it unfunny in retrospect.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:08 PM
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"Extra" I can see, but "superfluous?"

I think "supernumerary" is the accepted usage.

It's generally a sign that the person has concluded a pact with the devil, and has the extra teat for demons to suckle on.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:08 PM
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And trolling is harder than it looks; I got a flurry of exchanges and then comity broke out again. You have to keep at it.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:08 PM
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73: That they tend to be philandering narcissistic bastards, maybe? Only if they're not leftist enough.

Please enjoy Toni Bentley's completely non-inflammatory review of Pollitt's book. It should complement the chemical fumes nicely.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:10 PM
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"Supernumerary nipple" is how it is said.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:10 PM
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It's because we're like the cast of an American sitcom. Sure, we bicker, but underneath there is deep love. Except for you, I don't pay, you motherfucking fucker.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:11 PM
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83 is *totally* not fair. I was the angry person here way before Stras was even a gleam in Giblet's eye.

I'm going to go pout now.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:11 PM
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Dsquared, as always, was right.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:13 PM
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87: They tend to be condescending self-satisfied jerks. Philandering is optional.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:13 PM
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92: There there, dear.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:14 PM
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Re. link in 87: how much you wanna bet Toni Bentley's sleeping with Pollitt's ex now?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:15 PM
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93: That's the best you can do? You'll never succeed in being a liberal nice guy at that rate.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:18 PM
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Heh.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:18 PM
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And you a Canadian and everything. Tsk tsk.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:18 PM
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Philandering is what makes makes progressive politics possible for men.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:19 PM
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97: I'm troubled by your reification of arbitrary nationalistic stereotypes, B. As a feminist, I had hoped you'd be above all that.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:20 PM
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Query: would any men be liberal if they didn't think it would get them laid?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:20 PM
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99's pretty good! Very Canadian of you.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:20 PM
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I object to the claim that there's something wrong with fantasizing about running people down in crosswalks. I do it all the time.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:22 PM
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I thought we were firmly of the belief, Ogged, that men don't do anything except what they think will get them laid. The poor one-trick ponies.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:23 PM
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100: I dunno. Does Emerson count as 'liberal' for these purposes?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:23 PM
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Being liberal doesn't get anyone laid, I don't think.

B hasn't confessed on-blog to having been expelled from Canada for rudeness, has she?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:24 PM
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Query: would any men be liberal if they didn't think it would get them laid?

That is entirely too easy. You can do better than that.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:24 PM
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105: Actually my teaching evals for the first semester dinged me for rudeness, so I started being all saccharinely "concerned" about things, and it solved the problem.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:25 PM
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Better one:

Would any man support reproductive rights if child support wasnt an issue?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:25 PM
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I don't have a car, so I have to fantasize about walking really slowly through crosswalks and making people wait. It's not quite the same.

91: Wait, right about what? You're not talking about that Budweiser thing?


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:25 PM
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The really clever thing about that Budweiser post, IIRC, is that with all the talk about authenticity and such I don't believe that he actually claimed that it didn't taste kind of foul.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:27 PM
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Stras, my brother in zen, you seem to have misunderstood the post, in which I said that I liked Fafblog at the time, but find it unfunny in retrospect.

You find it unfunny in retrospect because you're personally embarrassed by your lengthy endorsement of the policies that Fafblog criticizes - criticism you didn't have to pay much attention to at the time because you were never a regular reader. And because you proudly cling to a moderate liberal tradition in which displays of anger, in any context, are an unforgivably shrill and impolitic breach of etiquette. See also, for example, the way you introduced Tony Karon as "a saner version of Juan Cole" months ago, when by any reasonable standard Juan Cole is far more mainstream than Tony Karon. It's not that you think Karon is more mainstream; it's that you've already decided, through years of previous disagreement with Cole, that Cole is crazy, even when he's been proven right time and again.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:27 PM
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"Clever" is one way to put it, LB.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:27 PM
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100: tons of men would be liberal regardless of getting-laid possibilities. The question is how many would be feminist.

The link in 87 is great...Bentley is the anal-sex ballerina, right? I doubt she's with Pollit's ex, ballerinas can usually do better than "Marxist intellectual".


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:28 PM
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I think my humor might be too sophisticated for you and your ilk, Jones.

What he's trying to say, Stras, is you're just not smart enough.

(Just kidding Ogged! Really, just playing.)


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:29 PM
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115

I'm sure I'd be amused by a video of "Nice B".

DS: sometimes I imagine seeing someone drowning, and then recognizing them at the last moment and letting them go down without saving them. Or sometimes swimming out to save them and then clumsily pushing them under.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:30 PM
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anal-sex ballerina

It cracks me up that this is a neutral, accurate description of her.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:30 PM
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Stras, the sad fact is that no litany of my flaws as a human being is going to make Fafblog funny.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:30 PM
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ballerinas can usually do better than "Marxist intellectual"

Once they've been defiled?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:31 PM
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I think Tony Karon may be more sane than Juan Cole, by dint of having grown up, lived and worked in places where his views are not viewed as insane by the mainstream, he is more able to act as if he assumes his views are reasonable instead of constantly feeling like an inevitably powerless repressed minority.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:32 PM
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The really clever thing about that Budweiser post, IIRC, is that with all the talk about authenticity and such I don't believe that he actually claimed that it didn't taste kind of foul.

Budweiser (by which I mean the real Budweiser, the beer which has been sold under that brand by Anheuser-Busch since 1876) is really quite a good beer.


Posted by: joeo | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:34 PM
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You are a small, sad, lonely little man, ogged.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:34 PM
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Amused, but deep down, terrified.

Anal sex ballet is unfamiliar to me.

Now that it's on topic, I'm just mention that my g-g-grandfather founded a brewery in Iowa before the Budweiser brewery came along, but was driven out of business around 1880 by accursed honky prohibitionists.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:34 PM
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I'm sure I'd be amused by a video of "Nice B".

Just imagine me being all wholesome and saying things like, "now, I really respect what you all have to say, so I hope you'll all participate in class discussion... you'll see on the syllabus that this is part of your grade, because I want to reward students for participating, but don't worry if you're the shy type, because we'll be doing some group work too...."

Then I'd go home and grind my teeth until they cracked, which is why now I'm needing so much fucking dental work.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:34 PM
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117: Oddly, though, repeatedly typing Bow! Bow before Giblets! BOOOOWWWW!!! will make it funny.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:35 PM
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So the answer to 81 is: extremely funny!

115: Sometimes I dream that I'm doing dishes, and I can't find the Palmolive.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:36 PM
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Re: the Toni Bentley review, it seemed like she was trying to make Pollitt's book sound kinda bad and pathetic, but her review just made me want to read it more.

attempts to read his e-mail by guessing his password: " 'marxism,' 'marx,' 'karlmarx,' ... 'belgium,' 'chocolate,' 'godiva,' 'naked,' 'breast,' 'cunnilingus,' 'fellatio.' "

Teh funny.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:36 PM
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Re:anger:
If you're writing a political blog in the twenty-first century, anger isn't a liability, it's a symptom of a functioning conscience. If you were writing a zombie movie blog during the same period and were angry, that would be inappropriate: what do you have to bitch about? We've had loads of zombie movies, some of them extremely good.
How one expresses that anger is the measure of a political blog. The first half of this post (ending with the word "service") is the most constructive thing anyone other than Katherine has ever done about extraordinary rendition.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:36 PM
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120: He says 'good beer' but doesn't actually identify it as tasting good, rather than 'not tasting like piss'.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:36 PM
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You are a small, sad, lonely little man, ogged.

See, now that made me laugh. We can get along.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:37 PM
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Anal sex ballet is unfamiliar to me.

Paging jackmormon!


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:40 PM
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126: Read it, it's great. Like all these "oh ho, the feminist leader has no clothes!" things, Bentley's review just demonstrates that she has a tin ear and no sense of humor.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:43 PM
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yeah, the amazing thing about that post about rendition is that it took me a 40 page law review article to make this precise point. Fafblog is certainly funnnier than that:

RICE: I'd also like to point out that whenever we send a prisoner to a country that routinely tortures prisoners, that country promises us NOT to torture them. FB: And then they get tortured anyway! RICE: Yes, they do! It's very strange. FB: Over and over again, every time! That's gotta be so frustrating. RICE: Oh it is, it is. FB: So the first time you kidnap a prisoner an send him to Saudi Arabia you're like "don't torture this guy" an they're all "we totally won't" an then they go an torture him an you're all "ooh Saudi Arabia I told you not to torture him!" an they're all "oh we're sorry, we promise next time" an then you go "well you better" an you send em the next guy an they torture him too an you go "oh man Saudi Arabia you did it AGAIN!" RICE: The president believes in the value of patience, Fafnir. He's not going to let a few dozen innocent torture victims come between him and his favorite third-world dictators. FB: See after the first coupla hundred times that happened I woulda registered a complaint with customer service.

Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:43 PM
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See, now that made me laugh. We can get along.

It'll be less funny in thirty years when you're gently weeping into your organic pesto and rice salad while the women at Whole Foods are trying to avoid making eye contact.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:43 PM
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Perhaps it takes some of the weight off the toe shoes.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:44 PM
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132: Thirty more years in California and Ogged will be wearing a white suit and Panama hat to go to Whole Foods, where he'll cheerfully embrace everyone he sees.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:45 PM
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in thirty years... while the women at Whole Foods are trying to avoid making eye contact.

Wow, kindness from stras. Who knew?


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:47 PM
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the amazing thing about that post about rendition is that it took me a 40 page law review article to make this precise point.

I thought the main point of law review articles was to take a three sentence concept and turn it into 40 pages?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:47 PM
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A health-conscious guy like Ogged should have the pick of the laydeez by the time he's 70 or 75.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:47 PM
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Fafblog was pretty good, but I think it suffered from overuse of a basically-lame comedic device: the wacky non-sequitur. Like an otherwise witty friend who can't help himself from overusing puns, the idiot randomness seriously detracted from the mostly-hilarious overall package. It really suffers on the second reading, though, when "Fudgecicle! Where does he get this stuff?!" turns into "right, Fudgecicle".


Posted by: Tom | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:48 PM
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138: I think in that age group, what women are really looking for in a man is full kidney functioning.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:48 PM
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[Bentley] has a tin ear and no sense of humor

Also, while one could admire its confessional daring, "The Surrender" is in hindsight a pretty silly book which belongs somewhere at the rear of the literary pack. (Yes, it's full of puns just like those.)


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:51 PM
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140:

I suspect that ceases to be a requirement after age 29.

Ogged has it made. He is neat and clean Women will flock to him. He will be granny's fastidious, well-groomed boyfriend.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:53 PM
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138, 140: Deep in our hearts, we all know that ogged resets the Tivo at a fearsome rate. And so we feel existential angst.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 2:53 PM
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I think in that age group, what women are really looking for in a man is full kidney functioning.

Money!


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:02 PM
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Okay, this is where I break in and say that making the pro- and anti-Ogged argument about whether or not the man gets laid is just incredibly sexist, and you all suck.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:03 PM
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Good point, tom.

And yes, we really are having a disagreement about the funny that involves competing predictions about who will die alone and miserable. Sweet.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:05 PM
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Tom's comments were better--more authentic--back when he was "tom."


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:08 PM
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Mmmmmm. Suck. Isn't it puritanical to accuse people of sucking?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:10 PM
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I long for those heady days, too, Tim. But there's no going back.

FWIW, I'm trying to make up for it with an increasing emphasis on comments that are much too late to the thread to be at all relevant (a core component of the Tom style).


Posted by: Tom | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:12 PM
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strasmangelo jones is ogged's sock puppet. And both of them wrote Fafblog.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:13 PM
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I agree. Despite its feminist pretensions, 145 is in fact disturbingly anti-feminist, whereas those discussing Ogged as a sexual object are redistributing sexual objectification in a distinctly pro-feminist manner.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:13 PM
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I agree with 148 that is.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:14 PM
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139 Likewise, The Divine Comedy suffers from overuse of terza rima, Metal Machine Music could have used a little less feedback, and Debbie Does Dallas relied too much on sex scenes.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:15 PM
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competing predictions about who will die alone and miserable.

I'd like to place a full cover bet with regard to the whole unfogged commenter population.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:15 PM
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B has always been anti-sucking. Sometimes the truth slips out.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:16 PM
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Feminism is an elusive, delicate concept, and the truest feminism, paradoxically, comes from those who most fervently exhort women to know their place.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:16 PM
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an otherwise witty friend who can't help himself from overusing puns

This pains me, Tommy.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:18 PM
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Reading this thread has made me realize there's too much negativity in the world. Stras, can't you learn to love? And by love, I mean vote Republican.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:19 PM
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149: What's sad is that I genuinely miss the lack of capitalization. I have no explanation for that, or even a sense of where to begin looking.

156: You misstate it. The truest feminism believes that women can know there place. The exhortation is only support; the real work is done by the women. And Cosmo.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:20 PM
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153 is very funny. Terza rima will probably make me think of Fafblog from now on.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:20 PM
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Feminism is an elusive, delicate concept, and the truest feminism, paradoxically, comes from those who most fervently exhort women to know their place

C'mon, LB. We know you just plagiarized that from Katherine Jean Lopez at The Corner.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:21 PM
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158: war is peace. love is hate.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:22 PM
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basically-lame comedic device

There is no such beast. A comedic device is neither lame nor awesome; Tom is a tool-blaming craftsman.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:23 PM
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158: The Finnes believe the opposite: complainign will make the world one. And they're completely right!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:23 PM
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No, no, of course your puns are a delight, Smasher. You know I'm willing to bend the rules for jokes involving role playing games or the internet.

Besides, even if your puns were worse I wouldn't be able to blame you for it. The descent into Dad Humor is inevitable. It's our neurological destiny.


Posted by: Tom | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:24 PM
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153 - Poor underappreciated Neil Hannon.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:24 PM
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Love and hate are the merest epiphenomena, masks worn over the deeper reality, the Higher Love, as we learn from the works of the masters, such as Steve Winwood.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:24 PM
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Spelign is not ipmotratn. Sausagely is right.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:25 PM
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Feminism is advocacy of the rights of women, as distinct from those of "female persons". Thus, the ideal feminist institution is the stripper training camp. Or maybe the stripper combine, I'm not sure which.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:26 PM
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stripper combine

Farm equipment?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:28 PM
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169: I know I should steel myself to feel no pity, but I've been feeling terrible for SdB over all the links to that female persons thing. I do hope that he's solidly weird enough not to be humiliated by the fact that people are reading that and laughing at him.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:29 PM
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170: The truest feminism comes from recognizing the essential connection between femininity and crop yields.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:30 PM
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I do hope that he's solidly weird enough

BEEEE-DA!

Don't worry, LB, don't worry.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:31 PM
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Bow! Bow before the Harvest Goddess! Bow!!!!


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:31 PM
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171: And I hope he's profoundly humiliated, for the rest of his life.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:31 PM
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stripper combine

Feminism is the mother of trusts!


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:32 PM
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I've been feeling terrible for SdB

Oh, LB.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:32 PM
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171: Me, too. I was too cowardly to put a comment in at Yglesias's place this morning suggesting he lay off.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:33 PM
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I've been feeling terrible for SdB

I got savaged for feeling sorry for Krauthammer in his wheelchair. I demand that LB be savaged!


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:34 PM
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You are a small tall, sad, lonely little man, ogged.

It must be so great to be tall...it makes even insults and mockery into compliments. Before he sounded pathetic, now he sounds like Gary Cooper or Abraham Lincoln.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:34 PM
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180 was me! I want credit for finally figuring out how the strikeout worked!


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:35 PM
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169 is funny, but not really imbued with the spirit of love. LB gets it. Maybe all of the generalizations about New Yorkers I took from Seinfeld weren't completely accurate.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:35 PM
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I know, pity is weak. That thing was just so sad -- this poor weird guy who just wants someone to love him and has absolutely no idea what's wrong with that he's not getting what he wants, and isn't in close enough contact with consensus reality to have much of a hope of ever getting there. I mean, he's also a truly unpleasant excuse for a human being, but sad.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:35 PM
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I haven't time to read through the thread right now, and I hope I'm pwned thousands of times above:

ogged, you have never, ever been more wrong about anything. I weep every time I think about fafblog being no more.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:36 PM
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Look, go back into the Unfogged archives, see how many of Labs's funny comments are replaced with [redacted], not to mention the posts that have been taken down wholesale, and then tell me how bad you feel for D/en B/este.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:37 PM
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LB, maybe in the abstract this is a makable case. But come on: you're not talking about someone unpleasant in the abstract, you're talking about someone who is personally responsible for depriving us of some of our most beloved posts.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:37 PM
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183: I think that sort of pity speaks well of you, LB. Not weak. He's some random guy, not some Overlord.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:38 PM
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Wait, we're talking about Fafblog? I fucking hate that site.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:38 PM
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Ogged, now you're annoying me.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:38 PM
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Tim, don't be a weenie. He's not a random guy. He's the guy that took from us FL's smutty, smutty wisdom.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:39 PM
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Hey Sir K, are you ready for our date tonight?


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:39 PM
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185: Gawddammit, I'd somehow forgotten that. No pity till he's in a wheelchair. No! Until he needs one but can't afford it!


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:39 PM
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185, 186: Okay, there's a point there. But still.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:40 PM
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187: I think that sort of pity speaks well of you, LB.

Agreed. I do view it as a personal failing that I think SdB deserves to die pinned under an avalanche of RealDolls, but there you have it.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:40 PM
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SDB is sad in exactly the same way as a rabid dog. You can feel pity but you've got to shoot it. Oh and in this particular case, as ogged already noted, it's a rabid dog that already bit one of your children. So pity is actually something of an extraordinary emotion.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:41 PM
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SDB is sad in exactly the same way as a rabid dog

See, I cried at the end of Old Yeller.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:42 PM
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How could anyone be "ready" for something like that, Smasher? I'm sure that she's steeled herself.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:42 PM
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194: But this would be funny.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:42 PM
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LB will never be allowed to join my terrorist group, and not just because she's a feminazi.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:43 PM
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191: Rowr!


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:46 PM
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183: "Pitiable" and "sad" are not the same thing.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:55 PM
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"Pitiable" and "sad" are not the same thing.

Good point. I'd also distinguish between pity and sympathy. I pity SdB because he is pitiable, but I don't have much sympathy for him.


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 3:59 PM
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There was, I admit, some schadenfreude involved in seeing the "most wingnuttiest" discussions this week. It's a tricky case, because I sort of feel bad for the guy's being such a prick that I don't feel bad for him.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:09 PM
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hmmm


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:12 PM
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this poor weird guy who just wants someone to love him make him feel like "a man" by pretending to have no thoughts or personality of her own.

Dude, I cried at Old Yeller too, but come on.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:18 PM
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I do hope that he's solidly weird enough not to be humiliated by the fact that people are reading that and laughing at him.

I think he very deeply wants people to respect him and take him seriously as an intellect. "Tranzis"!


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:23 PM
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Fuck SdB. No pity. Not so much a rabid dog as a fucked up sane dog that runs about biting everyone because he likes the taste.

That stripper post makes if quite clear he's perfectly aware he's totally at odds with reality. He knows damn well that relationships with women don't conform to his fantasy. But does he then try to accept that and have a relationship with a woman as an equal? No! Instead he sits in the basement writing screeds on how great it would be if all women were like strippers, and then fwapfwapfwapfwapfwapfwap to a bunch of pedophilic anime.

His viewing tastes and views toward women reek of sexual predator, and one that targets the young. He's totally fucked in the head, and it's only going to get worse as he ages. Maybe the anime and the social isolation will keep him in check, but I doubt it.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:24 PM
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When Unfogged goes all Lord of the Flies, Ogged and I are going to eat all of you.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:25 PM
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From 204, Burke says: There's a reasonably large universe of people and ideas out there to take issue with.

And many of the influential voices among them are crazier than a shithouse rat; den Beste was (and still is) esteemed widely throughout Right Blogistan as a "thinker." And Burke is concern-(s)trolling back to an era when we could politely ignore this type of thing and pretend to be "elevating the debate" instead of avoiding the obvious. Acknowledging and mercilessly mocking it is the better course.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:25 PM
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I think by "pitiable" people mean "pathetic."


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:26 PM
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I've had several unpleasantish run-ins with him on MetaFilter, where he is often mistaken completely making shit up, but never in doubt willing to concede that even subject-matter professionals known more than him. It leeches the sympathy away after a while.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:27 PM
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208: Starting with the laydeez.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:27 PM
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210: Not this people.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:33 PM
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When Unfogged goes all Lord of the Flies, Ogged and I are going to eat all of you.

Human flesh supposedly tastes a lot like monkey. Buy a monkey and get your taste buds all tuned up.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:36 PM
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207: It's not that any of this is wrong. But I still hate seeing that post linked to.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:43 PM
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Human flesh supposedly tastes a lot like monkey.

That's odd, because every other animal tastes like chicken, apparently.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:45 PM
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Much as one would hate to see one's personal information posted on someone else's blog....


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:46 PM
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208: Both of you can eat me.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:48 PM
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I'd always heard pork, for human flesh.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:54 PM
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The nearest thing in nature to the flesh of a man is the flesh of a pig.


Posted by: Bill the Butcher | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:55 PM
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Long pig, you know.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:55 PM
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The nearest thing in nature to the flesh of a man is the flesh of a pig.

Oh man, now apo isn't even going to wait.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 4:59 PM
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Mmmm. Pulled commenter butt.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:01 PM
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Look, go back into the Unfogged archives, see how many of Labs's funny comments are replaced with [redacted], not to mention the posts that have been taken down wholesale, and then tell me how bad you feel for D/en B/este.

How exactly did D/en B/este do that? That affair has been mentioned a few times since I started reading this site, but only in the vaguest terms. I assume there's good reason for that, but it's very confusing.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:03 PM
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There was an article about the taste of human flesh on Slate not long ago. Verdict: veal.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:07 PM
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I'd always heard pork

I read/heard somewhere that an anthropologist (Jack Petrie, I think) once ate human flesh out in Indonesia. Didn't know what it was, and supposedly didn't realize anything was amiss because of the similarity to roasted monkey he'd eaten on the same trip.

Ah, Google takes me here.

http://food.oregonstate.edu/ref/culture/taboo_allen.html

Link gives this as the source of the Petrie story.

Millman, Lawrence. An Evening Among the Headhunters and Other Reports from Roads Less Travelled. Cambridge, MA: Lumen Editions (Brookline Books), 1998, p. 222.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:10 PM
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Here.

"I took a big swallow of wine, a helping of rice, and thoughtfully ate half the steak. And as I ate, I knew with increasing certainty what it was like. It was like good, fully developed veal, not young, but not yet beef. It was very definitely like that, and it was not like any other meat I had ever tasted. It was so nearly like good, fully developed veal that I think no person with a palate of ordinary, normal sensitiveness could distinguish it from veal. It was mild, good meat with no other sharply defined or highly characteristic taste such as for instance, goat, high game, and pork have. The steak was slightly tougher than prime veal, a little stringy, but not too tough or stringy to be agreeably edible. The roast, from which I cut and ate a central slice, was tender, and in color, texture, smell as well as taste, strengthened my certainty that of all the meats we habitually know, veal is the one meat to which this meat is accurately comparable. As for any other special taste or odor of a sort which would be surprising and make a person who had tasted it not knowing exclaim, 'What is this?' it had absolutely none. And as for the 'long pig' legend, repeated in a thousand stories and recopied in a hundred books, it was totally, completely false.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:10 PM
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Verdict: veal.

Now I'm not going to wait.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:11 PM
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I do not endorse cannibalism. As Sin City's Marv says: "I know it's pretty damn weird to eat people."


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:12 PM
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If SdB elevates their debate, they deserve all the scorn we can heap. Fuck him and his hentai-for-the-articles.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:12 PM
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hentai-for-the-articles

So good, Cala.

Destroyer, I can't recall all the details, but long story short, SdB posted Fontana's ip address and the name of his institution. Out of caution, any Labs post that might have made the tenure committee raise an eyebrow was taken down.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:15 PM
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any Labs post that might have made the tenure committee raise an eyebrow was any fun


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:16 PM
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231, that wouldn't be the same institution that comes up as the first non-blog-related search result for "F/onta/na La/bs", would it?

That seems like it would defeat some of the purpose for anonymity.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:16 PM
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233: No.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:17 PM
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No.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:18 PM
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227: we are incapable of tasting (or indeed, even thinking about tasting) a madeleine without summoning all we know of Proust.

Wow. So true. And I always summon all I know of Stendahl when I drink wine.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:18 PM
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D/en B/este's degenerative disease, for which powerful stimulants are a palliative but not a cure: meth addiction.


Posted by: Richard Milhous Nixon | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:19 PM
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There seems to have been a lot of posting people's IP addresses, employers, home addresses, etc., in the early years of the blogosphere (you know, back when people other than deluded idealists thought blogs mattered). Has that blown over or are the pusillanimous peckerwoods still blowing everybody's cover?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:19 PM
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are the pusillanimous peckerwoods still blowing everybody's cover?

The psquared's are still out there.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:22 PM
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238: I think Patterico was the last prominent practitioner of this ancient form of Netkook Warfare, but no doubt it has adherents even now.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:22 PM
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Apo outed that idiot Charlie (not Whitaker) for about fifteen minutes last year, but took it down.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:24 PM
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240 Didn't they switch to posting personal info of 12-year-old political prop kids instead of bloggers?


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:25 PM
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238: They seem to be going right to actively doing harm now.


Posted by: icathing | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:26 PM
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that idiot Charlie

Who dat?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:26 PM
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231: This was in response to criticism/mockery from FL, or somesuch?


Posted by: the Other Paul | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:26 PM
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242, 243 Right you are.

244: Nobody worth remembering.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:28 PM
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A link to a particularly ridiculous SdB review of softporn anime, in which he complains that the anime he's watching includes too many naked cartoon little girls as opposed to naked cartoon (and 'nicely bouncy') adult women, was what pissed him off.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:29 PM
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241: I had almost forgotten; that still feels so wrong.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:30 PM
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But he left.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:31 PM
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231: so I assume when Labs gets tenure there's going to be a best-of for a few weeks?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:33 PM
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247 is right, but what made SdB's post particularly ridiculous was his claim that he averted his eyes whenever there was a naked girl on the screen.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:33 PM
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249: True fact. I think being outed for fifteen minutes was exactly what he needed.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:34 PM
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249: He was here or at Apo's, being a nuisance?


Posted by: the Other Paul | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:36 PM
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243 is so, so awful. Ugh.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:37 PM
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He'd been asked to leave several times and kept coming back under different names. I named the law firm all the comments were being posted from, then took it down.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:37 PM
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149: FWIW, I'm trying to make up for it with an increasing emphasis on comments that are much too late to the thread to be at all relevant (a core component of the Tom style).

What he said.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:38 PM
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Here.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:38 PM
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254: It really is. How can people be so ghastly?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:38 PM
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I have tamed the Troll of Sorry with love, BTW. He can be quite interesting at my place. I have to delete an occasional post, but not a lot.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:41 PM
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256, on the other hand, is funny.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:41 PM
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For what it's worth, I feel sorry for Den Beste too. All his negative stuff is defensive against his sadness. He doesn't have enough positive input in his life to keep his temper and irritability in check. HE JUST NEEDS A HUG.

B is right that he probably couldn't handle a real woman any more, but he's not a predator or an exploiter (unless you count spending a ton of money at strip clubs as exploitation). More like a lost soul.

The important thing about him was that the warblogger community actually took him seriously.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:43 PM
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Holy fuck, I just followed the link in 243.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:44 PM
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Christ on a cracker. How could they?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:45 PM
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261 gets it right.

Also, people giving themselves pancreatic cancer and death just to scam donations out of people are the very face of the Left today.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:46 PM
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The stuff in 243 seems to cross a line (if there are any). Isn't there anything that can be done back to punish tactics like this -- lawsuits?

Of course, another theme there is the obscenity of postponing or canceling surgeries for deadly conditions because of payment arrangements. Welcome to the U.S. health care system. Disgusting.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 5:55 PM
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Lawsuits are a kind of useless way of punishing someone unless you have a whole lot of money to spend on lawyers without caring what you get in return.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 6:01 PM
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243, wow.

265: Sure, we can threaten to sue!!!!! That'll help the dead man and create an ugly blog fight over nonsense. Those are always fun.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 6:08 PM
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Isn't there anything that can be done back to punish tactics like this -- lawsuits?

Lawsuits? Oh my. Oh.

Is there really any doubt that come the revolution, the right will completely crush the left? Those folks are merciless.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 6:12 PM
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True fact. I think being outed for fifteen minutes was exactly what he needed.

In the future, everyone will be outed for fifteen minutes.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 6:14 PM
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The thread where everyone was seriously fantasizing about snubbing Bush, but being unsure they could really go through with it if the opportunity offered, convinced me. We're doomed.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 6:14 PM
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Surely it's not the left that is doomed, but the ├╝ber-educated blog-commenting left. I'm sure mcmanus would have useful ideas about what to do to punish tactics like this.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 6:18 PM
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270: This from the woman who feels sorry for SDB.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 6:19 PM
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Is there really any doubt that come the revolution, the right will completely crush the left?

That's pretty much the way it played out in Spain, but the Left did get in an spree of nun-raping before the final collapse, if Franco's historians can be believed.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 6:20 PM
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272: Do I claim to be successfully more vicious than my peers? I am not, and am just as doomed.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 6:21 PM
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273 [the right crushing the left] That's pretty much the way it played out in Spain,

Remember the war against Franco?
That's the kind where each of us belongs.
Though he may have won all the battles,
We had all the good blogs songs.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 6:29 PM
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Of course these people are unhinged. People who stalk you to your door and then try to get in should me met with a shotgun blast.

Remington 870 with a 7 round tube. Only about 300 bucks. If you're inexperienced, get the 20 gauge instead of the 12. Slugs or buckshot. Birdshot is shite when it comes to shooting people.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 6:41 PM
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Birdshot is shite when it comes to shooting people.

Yeah. If you want nonlethal, you skip the shot and put rock salt on the wad. Nothing makes you reconsider the wisdom of harassing someone like picking fragments of rock salt out of your ass. But don't use your good shotgun, it's not good for the barrel.

Now, where's that SOB that called me an effete northeastern commenter?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 6:47 PM
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Birdshot is shite when it comes to shooting people.

Based on? At the kind of ranges at which the average schmoe might feel compelled to shoot someone (


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 6:55 PM
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277--

hate to tell you this, but the box o' truth says you're wrong.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot33.htm


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 6:56 PM
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Shit, that was supposed to be a less-than sign. What I was trying to say was:

At the kind of ranges at which the average schmoe might feel compelled to shoot someone (less than 20 feet?), birdshot would still be patterned tight enough and moving fast enough to do lots of damage, no? And the rapid loss of energy/lethality at longer ranges strikes me as more feature than bug for that sort of thing.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 6:59 PM
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birdshot would still be patterned tight enough and moving fast enough to do lots of damage

Small pellets don't penetrate well. As Cheney has so aptly demonstrated, a load of birdshot to the face doesn't even kill a 72 year old.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:02 PM
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The article linked in 279 is weird. Despite superficially denying it, it seems to confirm that if you want to deeply annoy and scare but probably not kill someone who show up and your door demanding to get in, a shotgun loaded with rock salt should do the trick nicely.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:05 PM
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281: That's why you fill the casing full of wax, natch.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:06 PM
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282: I think it's saying that the rock salt wouldn't even break the skin at more than four feet -- not only wouldn't it kill someone, it wouldn't bother them much.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:07 PM
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annoy, scare, not kill, yes, all good.

but also: not really slow down, or even impair. once the echoes die down, and they realize they are not hurt *at all*, then you are just back to where you started.

so, if you really want to deter the person, rock salt ain't going to do it, any more than a blank would. it fails as a non-lethal way of deflecting a determined attacker.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:07 PM
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but lb knew all this anyhow, from living in manhattan.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:08 PM
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We may be thinking of different sorts of birdshot. I don't know what Cheney was shooting or what the range was, but I'm very damn sure--possibly wrong, but very damn sure--that a 12 gauge waterfowl load isn't something I want hitting me at short range.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:09 PM
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285: sure get someones attention though. If you tell them `next one is lead shot' (and mean it) it might work quite well.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:09 PM
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288: For that sort of thing, isn't the standard movie thing to do firing into the air? No need for a special load.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:11 PM
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289--
and that depends on whether you're in the penthouse of your co-op or not.
upstairs neighbors? then you probably would get complaints.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:12 PM
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288: If having a shotgun pointed at them isn't doing the trick, providing evidence that the shotgun isn't as deadly as it looks doesn't seem like the right move.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:13 PM
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Gunfire inside an apartment building is regarded as unneighborly regardless of the direction.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:13 PM
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I knew of a woman who was at the county fair, when a stray bullet fell out of the sky and landed right next to her spine.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:13 PM
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I just wear goggles, because I enjoy picking out birdshot with a tweezer. It's like being a cutter, except more macho.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:14 PM
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293--
i'm trying to think of what would come next in fafblog.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:15 PM
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The link in 279 is teh awesome. I must concede that the hope of making someone pick fragments out the ass is probably ambitious given these experimental results

However, I would concur with the view in 282. A rubber bullet (or a horsewhip) doesn't break the skin, either, but it hurts like hell.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:15 PM
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And there've been people killed around New Year's by bullets shot into the air.


Posted by: the Other Paul | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:16 PM
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291: better to shoot one leg out from under them, then ...


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:17 PM
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I knew of a woman who was at the county fair, when a stray bullet fell out of the sky and landed right next to her spine.

Firing a shotgun in the air is not dangerous in the same way that a rifle shot is. When the spray returns to earth, it's unlikely to do serious damage unless it hits your eye.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:17 PM
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289: remember though ... the standard movie thing is to shoot in the air, making a hole in the ceiling, out of which plaster/wood falls and knocks you out.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:19 PM
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it fails as a non-lethal way of deflecting a determined attacker.

Assumes facts not in evidence. These are bedwetter wingnut bloggers we're talking about.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:19 PM
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300: Aren't you supposed to be doing this outdoors?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:20 PM
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A famous and relevant Charles Adams cartoon.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 7:24 PM
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I'm very damn sure--possibly wrong, but very damn sure--that a 12 gauge waterfowl load isn't something I want hitting me at short range.

Me neither, and it's surely better than a scowl. But again, small shot has poor penetration. Birdshot will surely hurt like hell, but there's a good chance you're going to inflict a nasty, but shallow wound that doesn't incapacitate the target. There's just way too many stories from cops and such who've seen guys still on their feet after taking a hit from birdshot to make me consider it a good option for defense.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 9:00 PM
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yeah, lawsuits are the ultimate lameness. I guess I was thinking about the guys family suing someone for his death.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 9:15 PM
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Well, the circumstance is a supremely assholish wingnut coming to your door. In which case a shotgun, followed by a very loud bang (ever stood without ear protection three feet from the front of a shotgun being fired?) indicating a willingness to inflict at least moderate physical harm and no knowledge of what the next round is going to be seems like it would be ideal at provoking a hasty retreat.

Maybe someone should experiment at UnfoggeDCon II.


Posted by: Jake | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 9:23 PM
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I know the thread has moved on, but I need to say that I feel really bad about getting overly pissed at ogged before, and about implying that he'll die cold, alone and unloved. Sorry, ogged.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 10:03 PM
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Sorry, ogged.

Stras, I appreciate that, but it's really not a problem. I mean, are you sometimes nuttily hostile? Yes, but I love you for it.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 10:09 PM
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304: Still thinking it's very much an issue of range and shot size. There's a lot of energy there when those pellets leave the barrel. It bleeds off fast, but a lot of it will still be there at 10 or 20 feet. And people are pretty soft targets. I'm not suggesting that birdshot would be the right thing for cops, who have more reason to be shooting at longer range, but for inside-the-house type ranges I have a hard time believing that a load of #4 birdshot out of a 12 gauge wouldn't be pretty devastating.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 10:09 PM
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308: Aw, see, well that just made me get all fuzzy inside.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 10:14 PM
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306 - We love teh shotguns in DC. You can't experiment shooting our ceiling but we can totally hook you up with places to discharge a shotgun if you come to UFC2. In fact, I just went shooting last weekend.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 10:17 PM
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Also, there's a great scene about what happens when you try to use birdshot to shoot through a door in American Gangster.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 10:18 PM
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If the wingnuts ever come for us, we'll just give Stras a shotgun and that'll be it.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 10:21 PM
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OMG, we could have an UnfoggeDCon some-number-athalon: swimming, skeet shooting, and...


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 10:21 PM
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308: Aw, see, well that just made me get all fuzzy inside.

Without nutty hostility, there is no love. Don't listen to these people with their talk of "dysfunction" and "healthy relationships."


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 10:22 PM
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swimming, skeet shooting, and...

witty blog commenting!

Oh, wait....


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 10:23 PM
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toilet seat blowjobs.


Posted by: marcus | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 10:24 PM
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I have a hard time believing that a load of #4 birdshot out of a 12 gauge wouldn't be pretty devastating.

Nothing to sneeze at, for sure. But I'd only load the the first round or two with bird, just in case.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 10:27 PM
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312: Yeah, Hollywood is known for the technical accuracy of its depictions of firearms use.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 6-07 10:28 PM
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And there've been people killed around New Year's by bullets shot into the air.

Mythbusters claims this isn't actually possible. A falling bullet doesn't penetrate the skull.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 12:02 AM
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Mythbusters claims this isn't actually possible. A falling bullet doesn't penetrate the skull.

What they showed is that it depends on the trajectory. If the bullet is shot straight up (or nearly straight up), it falls at terminal velocity and doesn't do any more harm than if you dropped it on someone's head from a couple of stories up. But if it's shot at a slightly lower angle, it retains much of its velocity and can be lethal.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 12:05 AM
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that just made me get all fuzzy inside

Which is the very most difficult place to shave.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 5:42 AM
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Yeah, Hollywood is known for the technical accuracy of its depictions of firearms use.

Which is why I want to get me one of those bottomless magazines that allows you to fire an AR-15 on full automatic for, like, 10 minutes.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 5:55 AM
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The only time you should be shooting at people AT ALL with ANYTHING is when you have no choice: ie you have to use potentially lethal force to protect yourself or others from immediate physical peril, because there's no other option (including running away) that will protect you. In which case, you should be shooting two aimed shots at the centre of the body from a 9mm handgun, preferably a SIG. That is, you are shooting to kill. If you don't want to kill the guy, why are you shooting at him? All this mucking around with birdshot and rock salt and shooting to wound is dangerous and irresponsible - either it'll kill the guy without your having meant to, or it won't stop him and he'll harm or kill you or others.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:28 AM
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The only time you should be shooting at people AT ALL with ANYTHING is when you have no choice: ie you have to use potentially lethal force to protect yourself or others from immediate physical peril, because there's no other option (including running away) that will protect you.

I disagree. Regarding running away, if you are accosted in your home, there is *no* legal "duty to retreat" required for a successful claim of self defense. That's true even of namby-pamby liberal states, and even more so in states with "make my day" laws.

Given that you have a right to use force in self defense, you still might want to stop short of lethal force. The "proportionality" required for a successful claim of self-defense militates in favor of non-lethal force, as might your sense of humanity. Arguably, non-lethal force is better delivered with mace or a taser, but low-tech is OK too if that's all you've got available.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:39 AM
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I disarm home intruders using nothing more than the force of logic. Well, logic and paperclips.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:45 AM
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I've noticed and can't be the first to point out that the assumptions Mythbusters make to "disprove" things often create a new kind of disinformation masking as revealed truth. The bullet straight up in this thread is a good example. Think of it as a vector analysis, where there's still plenty of horizontal energy.

I can just imagine what they'd do with a treadmill.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:47 AM
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325: I think the idea is that a firearm is a really dumb tool with which to exert non-lethal force in self defense. If you're willing to kill people, firearms are great. If your intention is to injure or frighten rather than kill, there's a whole wide exciting world of blunt instruments out there (as well as pointy ones.)

My direct experience of violence is pretty much non-existent, so the above may not be defensible. But it's my strong impression of the conventional wisdom w/r/t firearms.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:48 AM
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Ajay wrongly minimizes the potential of sport shooting. Lighten up, dude. Sometimes shooting people is just fun. Sure, there's some danger, but skiing and rock-climbing are dangerous too. he utilitarian nanny state ruins everything.

Not entirely a joke. In the West, anyway, every year a few people get blown away during what are essentially live-ammunition shooter games.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:57 AM
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I've known at least one person who drove off an intruder just by displaying a gun.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:58 AM
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What I was taught was that you do not pull out a firearm to threaten, or to look tough, or for any reason unless you are willing to shoot and are okay with the possibility of taking someone's life. As it turn out, you might pull your gun and frighten the bad guy away, or be able to shoot him in the knee, but pulling out the gun is crossing the Rubicon.

That said, there is no duty if someone is invading your house to hit him with a baseball bat first, and that's probably exceedingly bad advice for most women.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:58 AM
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My direct experience of violence is pretty much non-existent, so the above may not be defensible.

No, it's pretty much on the mark. I was inhabiting my redneck persona when I brought up the shotgun thing.

Your very first instinct about firing the shotgun in the air was also on point. There is a reason that soldiers fire a warning shot before firing on menacing civilians: it concentrates the mind wonderfully.

The problem with trying to intimidate someone with firearms is that, as likely as not, they'll be armed, too. And then you've escalated the conflict into one you might not want to carry to its logical conclusion. Also, adrenaline is scary powerful stuff: when you're holding that weapon, and especially after you've discharged it, you do crazy stupid stuff. The term "buck fever" describes what happens to hunters in this moment, and it's how a lot of accidents happen. I don't have any direct experience with armed street brawls, but I would guess that adrenaline plays a similar role here.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:59 AM
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What I was taught was that you do not pull out a firearm to threaten, or to look tough, or for any reason unless you are willing to shoot and are okay with the possibility of taking someone's life.

Yeah, exactly this is my understanding of what people who know stuff about guns think.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:00 AM
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pulling out the gun is crossing the Rubicon

This is correct. I don't think it completely rules out the possibility of attempting to use a gun non-lethally on an intruder, but still, you're signing up for the possibility of killing someone.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:01 AM
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Yeah, it's not 'shoot to kill', but emphasizing that pulling the gun is a big fucking deal that guarantees you've escalated the situation. Don't escalate the situation unnecessarily or to get the neighbor kids off your lawn.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:03 AM
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334: No, you certainly can. But the thing is, the TV thing where the trained person shoots the guy in the knee is a) sort of hard to do, knees being little and b) really hard to do if you're actually scared shitless enough to go for your weapon. You can try to use the gun non-lethally; the point is self-defense, not to kill him, but realistically, it's easier to shoot someone in the torso and you don't really have a whole lot of control over the bullet after it leaves the gun.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:06 AM
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you should be shooting two aimed shots at the centre of the body from a 9mm handgun, preferably a SIG.

What are you, some kind of effete European? Real Americans use a .45 or a .357.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:07 AM
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I keep a flamethrower for home defense.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:08 AM
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I rely on the savage dog to protect us. Someone tries to break in, she'll snort at him, and shed violently. There's also a good chance she'll trip him while fawning around his ankles.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:10 AM
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Real Americans use a .45 or a .357.

But a .45 makes a bigger mess on the wall, for no real benefit in terms of lethality.

Oh, I guess that is kind of an effete attitude.

FWIW, I reckon the .45 round is also less likely to penetrate the bedroom wall and kill your sleeping child.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:11 AM
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FWIW, I reckon the .45 round is also less likely to penetrate the bedroom wall and kill your sleeping child.

Wuss!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:13 AM
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I keep a flamethrower for home defense.

These are available as an aftermarket option for your car.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:13 AM
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339: I have an attack cat.

Did I tell the story here about my grandmother going skeet shooting?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:14 AM
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334/335 takes all the fun out of things. Rocksalt sounds just right for getting the kids off your lawn.

You know, all you have to do is talk about killing potentially innocent people and (some of) you lot get all serious and shit. (yes, precisely none of my posts in this thread should be taken seriously)


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:16 AM
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I reckon the .45 round is also less likely to penetrate the bedroom wall and kill your sleeping child.

Drywall doesn't stop bullets worth a damn. Even wussy 9mm is going to zip though at least a couple interior walls.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:32 AM
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345 is assuming a miss. Most hollowpoints, even if they do exit a person, won't go through much after they exit.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:34 AM
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343: What happened to your grandmother?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:36 AM
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343: Attack cats are awesome. My problem is that my attack cat only attacks me. In the presence of intruders she retreats to her mystery spot. I suspect that this is the general case.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:42 AM
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Drywall doesn't stop bullets worth a damn.

I meant after exiting the person. Also, I've got thick horsehair plaster walls, which I suspect have superior stopping power.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:46 AM
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you do not pull out a firearm to threaten, or to look tough, or for any reason unless you are willing to shoot

Also, one must not put a loaded rifle on the stage if no one is thinking of firing it.


Posted by: Anton Chekov | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:51 AM
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It's more what happened to my grandfather's pride. He pursued skeet & trap as serious recreational hobby, along with hunting. (I don't think he ever actually killed anything, it was more about being outside, oddly enough. One day his club (all men, of course) had an event where they invited the wives along. A picnic and clay pigeons.

They think it would be fun to let the ladies have a go of it. My grandmother's a great sport. She's never fired a shotgun, so they make a big show of showing the lady how to hold the weapon, explain the rules of the sport carefully, and offer some advice.

The little clay pigeon is released, and she nails it. Again. Bam. Bam. Bam. "She's a better shot than you!", the men tease my grandfather. She returns to the picnic area, slyly grins and puts on her red lipstick. "He was mad all day after that."


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:51 AM
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"She's a better shot than you!"

According to an acquaintance of mine (female) who was a serious competitive shooter in college (NCAA championship team), women are naturally advantaged in certain shooting positions because of their lower center of gravity. The key is to have a weapon light enough that their upper body strength is adequate.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:58 AM
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Furthermore, Real Americans know that the greatest handgun cartridge of all time is the .45 Colt, which has proven itself on everything from Moros to moose.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:59 AM
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Surely I've told the story about my grandmother who, when a burglar had been making his way through the neighborhood and apparently gaining access via rooftops, spent the night on the roof with a rifle, confronted him, and told him to never come back? The story goes that he said that he would leave and tell everyone that Lur women are not to be messed with.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:11 AM
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the greatest handgun cartridge of all time is the .45 Colt

I'm no expert on these matters, but isn't the supposed superiority of the Colt 45 an artefact of days when cartridges were designed so simply that you needed all that heft to create lethal power at low muzzle velocity?

I know there were also logistical disadvantages to the .45 because they're so damn heavy, but aren't the modern 9mm rounds actually more lethal because of higher muzzle velocity and different ballistics?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:12 AM
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Surely I've told the story about my grandmother who, when a burglar had been making his way through the neighborhood and apparently gaining access via rooftops, spent the night on the roof with a rifle, confronted him, and told him to never come back?

My great-something granny didn't even need a rifle.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:16 AM
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If you don't like Fafblog, you won't like . . .

molesworth -- not that funny, needs more bitterness (see #54 above)
archy and mehitabel -- just a punk poet
krazy kat -- just a dumb cartoon anyway

. . . where did all that gun talk come from? Don't answer that.


Posted by: rm | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:33 AM
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355:

Those blackpowder .45 Colts were hefty stuff. 255 grain bullet at approx. 900 fps. The army had actually transitioned away from .45 Colt by the time they were in the Philippines in the early 1900's. The .38's they were using had such poor results against the Moros that they re-issued .45 Colts to the soldiers over there. Based off of the Philippines experiences and some subsequent tests done by Thompson and La Garde, the army determined .45 to be the minimum caliber for their new pistols. So a few years later we ended up with 1911's in .45 ACP, which is basically a rimless .45 Colt using a shorter case. Operates at similar pressures, with a slightly smaller bullet, 230 grains standard rather than 255.

9mm started relatively anemic, but has gotten better because modern loads are being wound higher than the original specs. The "hottest" loads are pushing a 124 grain bullet at 1200-1300 fps. The hot .45 ACP loads are pushing a 230 grain bullet at 950 fps. Roughly the same energy as the 9mm, but with a substantial diameter advantage.

.45 Colt these days can be loaded in the large frame Rugers like the Blackhawk and Bisley up to 32,000 CUP (copper units pressure), which will give you ballistics that exceed .44 mag. Really impressive stuff, 300-350 grain bullets at 1200-1400 fps.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:02 AM
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Women are naturally advantaged in certain shooting positions because of their lower center of gravity.

And their lower centers of gravity are cute, too.

Ex-blogger Scott Martens' g-grandfather was shot nine times point-blank by Ukrainian anarchists back in the old country. It took him a couple of days to die. Old-time guns could be pretty lame, at least in the Ukraine.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:52 AM
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337: the greater recoil from a .45 or .357 means you can't bring the weapon back on line as fast as you need to for a double tap. In my experience, anyway. Plus, .357s can have reliability issues. Again, in my experience.

Also, if you try to shoot someone non-lethally, you will feel a complete clot when you (eg) accidentally sever their femoral artery and they bleed out in thirty seconds all over your kitchen floor, when you were really aiming for their knee.

Which is my point. You shouldn't fire with the attitude "Well, I don't really want to kill this guy, but if he does die it's OK with me" which is the reasoning behind "shoot to wound". It shouldn't be OK with you to kill someone unless they are a clear and immediate threat - in which case it shouldn't be OK with you not to.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 9:02 AM
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I don't get that. If someone is a threat to me, I want them to cease to be a threat. I might be willing to kill them, but dead isn't better than incapacitated. I'm at least indifferent between dead and incapacitated, and really have some preference for incapacitated over dead.


Posted by: baton rouge | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 9:04 AM
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