You're also an anti-semitic ass.
I don't see how lack of hair on his backside really tells us anything about his character.
And yet you won't date a Russian.
Hey, he doesn't ask for the eradication of all semites, just some portion of their semitism. You can only ride this train if you are this semitic. [Diagram]
You're also an anti-semitic ass.
You had to make a joke about the one word I changed after posting, didn't you?
personally, I have a real thing for semites of all persuasions.
4: Yep.
3: Or if you follow the right depilatory and surgical regimes.
5: I would think that being attracted to gay male semites might lead to a lot of frustration on your part though.
This guy sounds like the type who also pulls "I like black people fine, but I can't stand niggers."
I love that this is the dog rescue guy. 'I really want to open a dog rescue ... in northern Idaho.'
re: 8
Chris Rock?
Shit, I forgot that's a line of his. I've heard white guys give this exact sentiment many times, and years before Rock did it.
Shit, I forgot that's a line of his.
Yet another reason why Chris Rock sucks.
No matter how you define semitic (there are many options), Turks aren't.
Shit, I forgot that's a line of his.
Yet another reason why Chris Rock sucks.
How does that follow?
...as I'm sure you're aware...
Like Ogged, I love this line as a perfect illustration of the patronizing-yet-desperate backpedal. Classic.
...as I'm sure you're aware...
... from seeing this move used by usenet trolls ...
Oh, he loves the Jews. It's those fucking Christian Turks!
Another example of swelling ignorance. A few decades ago he would have known, and used, the term "Levantine."
More things that people do when they think they're among their own kind:
Julie Myers, assistant secretary in charge of Immigration and Customs enforcement has apologized for awarding "most original costume" to a federal employee who dressed in prison stripes, dreadlocks and dark make-up for a Halloween celebration at the agency.
10 needs more attention. The best part of the story is that it's dog rescue guy.
Semitic dogs are ugly, hairy and whiny. Who wants to rescue them?
He'll be rescuing mostly German Shepherds and Alsatians.
Until now, I did not realize that Alsatians are German Shepherds. Huh.
Sometimes people only think they're among their own kind. When the thing you love best doesn't love you back, heartbreak ensues:
"It suddenly occurred to us that Regnery is making collectively jillions of dollars off of us and paying us a pittance." He added: "Why is Regnery acting like a Marxist cartoon of a capitalist company?"
The best part of the story is that it's dog rescue guy.
So true.
19: I'm having that Poor Man Feeling. This story is so amazing yet totally predictable. Is Julie Myers really going to keep her job? "I didn't realize he was wearing makeup--I thought he was that color! Because bronzer is dark, and black people are dark, or so I've heard." Also, totally committed to fighting racism, if only she recognized it, which she wouldn't if it hit her in the face with a dead fish and held up a sign saying "I am racism."
Dog rescue! Dog rescue!
Also, the guy's tone sounds like some turn-of-the-century racist anthropologist. How a touch of the mongoloid feature does please the eye, but the grain of the semites falls mainly on the plain or something like that.
"It suddenly occurred to us that Regnery is making collectively jillions of dollars off of us and paying us a pittance."
"Schadenfreude ist die beste Freude."
19: I just don't even know what to say, it's so bad. It's like hearing people whine about dirty Mexicans and then insist prayerfully that they feel the same way about Irish or any suitable ethnic group who overstay their visa, and then go back to worrying about being invaded by HIV-bearing mariachi-band listening dope fiends. Who knew an expired I-94 could cause so much anger?
27: Yeah, there's something disturbingly naive about what "anti-semitism" might entail, when you're willing to say you don't like semitic-ness, but aren't anti-semitic. Lots of people might not realize it's anti-semitic to say they aren't attracted to people who look "too Jewish," (though that's frighteningly ignorant in another way), but this guy is even using the word semitic to describe what he's against.
What, in the end, does he mean? "Well, I guess I totally am against semitism, but anti-semitic makes me sound genocidal, and that would be taking it too far"? Well, and he did in the past rub up against a token semite prized for her lack of "obvious" Jewishness, so blackJewish people love him and all that.
Who knew an expired I-94 could cause so much anger?
Doesn't seem like I-94 would be all that useful for most Mexican illegals. Now, those sneaky Canadians, on the other hand...
19: Good thing nobody found out about the guy who went as Al Jolson at the DOJ Civil Rights Enforcement Division halloween party.
The best part of the story is that it's dog rescue guy.
So, so fantastic.
3:You can only must ride this train if you are this semitic.
I apologize.
Dog rescue guy! That devolved into a cheating thread. But still, dog rescue guy!
I was picturing a fit, graying at the temple's Sean Connery sort of guy, but if you're talking about some hairy, ugly semite poorly endowed with a whiny voice it's less appealing.
I detect a lot of unconscious anger here, probably at parents who forced him to see Annie Hall when he really wanted to see A Bridge Too Far.
I keep trying to figure out if the imagined semite is "poorly endowed[,] with a whiny voice" or "[,] poorly[,] endowed with a whiny voice."
How does that follow?
If you find yourself, as a black comedian, building a routine around infamous white racist catch-phrases, something may be amiss.
If only because it gives future racists cover: "Dude, why are you being so PC? Chris Rock says the same thing."
17: the grain of the semites falls mainly on the plain
Cala's having a good day.
If I may jack this here thread, I would like some advice.
I need trousers advice, and so much advice about trousers has been thrown around here that it's impossible to wade through it.
I want to get my honey some nice flat-front pants for his birthday (coming up very soon!). I like the Hickey Freeman pants---like these---but they're too expensive and don't seem to come in the necessary 29" waist. Any suggestions?
36: What? Jews, trains: Gold, Jerry, Gold!
41: Future racists aren't worried about black people. It's the filthy oversexed Nebulons that really bother them.
re: 43
The difference between 29 and 30 is so tiny it'll make no difference. I'll bet the variation in size between individual pairs probably varies by anywhere up to half an inch or more.
Hickey Freeman pants, with a 29 inch waist, but cheap, you say?
JM, I've bought two pairs of pants here, and they're great. They run about $175 (here, anyway).
46: Those are pleated, LB. No wonder they are discounted.
Hmm, ebay might have been a good place to look, but I've only got a few days now. And since I'm afraid that no matter I try, the size will be wrong, I think I'd be better off buying new.
In other semite news, via Laura Rozen:
Bay Area FBI agents wanting to find Iranian secret agents data-mined grocery store records in 2005 and 2006, hoping that tahini purchases would lead them to domestic terroristsInasmuch as this brings ogged one step closer to a Cuban vacation, I applaud the effort. (I know Persians aren't semitic, but I thought tahini was Arab anyway)
LB has great ebay-fu. J-Mo, the wool ones that LB points to look nice, but they are not the same as the cotton ones you are looking for.
Depending on where you live, check out one of the stores that sell overstocks. Small waist sizes are especially likely to end up there. I have seen Hickey Freeman at each of the following: Filene's Basement, TJ Maxx, and Marshalls. Also, there may be a Hickey Freeman outlet store in wherever your closest bucolic retail paradise is. I know there's one near me, anyway.
Tahini is a primarily arabic food, and my decision to never get a grocery store card has been vindicated.
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. Ogged, I'll check out that Seanstore in SoHo--it sounds very promising.
my decision to never get a grocery store card has been vindicated
But do you pay for your groceries with a credit or debit card? Then you're leaving a trail that can be mined. Your best bet is to revert to barter, which I understand the Lur are supposed to be really good at anyway.
personally, I have a real thing for semites of all persuasions.
Yosemites?
On topic:
Tia's anti-semitic dude is reminding me of the moment when I finally realised that "Oh you're not like those other Americans" was really insulting.
Come on, Americans abroad are awful. Surely you must have noticed this. They're almost as bad as the Israelis.
But the problem was that the people saying this knew me really well. They weren't just commenting on my ability to dress myself without embarrassing everyone.
54: just keep swapping your grocery card in a (large) group of people. And pay cash.
Jackmormon, how do you know if this is insulting or not, without knowing who `those other Americans' were?
Oh you're not like those other Americans
Ditto for "you're not like those other women," "you're not like most women," and "you're the first really close female friend I've ever had!", shit I get all the time.
In all seriousness, this was a conversation I had with French people over and over again. We'd be talking about American politics, foreign policy, culture, whatever, and slowly but surely there would come a moment of: "Ugh, Americans are so crazy and destructive and benighted; you are different, one of the enlightened very few." And gradually, I started to feel offended rather than complimented.
You're not like the other Mormons I've known either, JM. You're a unique individual, not just a member of a group. Not like those others.
IME, nothing reminds you of how much you care for your country like hearing outsiders take shots at it. Same with family.
62: Gotcha. People do that all over. Particularly people who haven't travelled much.
What they really mean, is that they have some stereotype of `person of nationality X', and then they have you, an actual breathing example of said nationality. When you don't live up to the stereotype, it's easier to assume/assert you are an outlier, than to question the stereotype.
62: fwiw, it seems to me to be particularly bad between France and the US. In both directions. Probably because there is so much similarity.
Re: 62. It's especially vexacious because you are simultaneously insulted and aware that it's a little bit true.
One thing I detest is people who get all "Oh, you're so right, my country sucks," in these conversations. The Germans have a great term for someone who does this: Nestbeschmutzter a bird that fouls its own nest. It's almost as annoying as someone who thinks their country can do no wrong.
I was a much more patriotic American when I was living amongst anti-Americans than at any other time: it was a "my mother may be ugly, but I'll clock you if you call her ugly" type of feeling. As I mentioned yesterday, it was easier to come to the defense of the USA when Clinton was in the White House.
All of 2003 and most of 2004, I was personally assuring all my French and German friends that of COURSE America was slowly coming to its senses and would vote Bush out of office.
You know what I noticed when traveling abroad? People want to talk about how awful the US, Bush, the Iraq Way, etc are, and they expect you to defend US policy (especially in the Middle East). I feel like it kinda deflates their balloon when I'm like "yeah, I think the war is awful." They're all riled up and ready to fight, but no dice.
You're not like the other Mormons I've known either, JM.
Emerson, the Mormon stereotype was confounded even more among the French because of that stupid translation error in the subtitling of the movie Witness.
[*muttermutter* Stupid incurious French people *muttermutter*]
67: I've got a friend who'se all depressed about this now. He's been living abroad for years, and told me that he's always felt pretty defensive about the `ugly American' stuff when it comes up. And it does come up. But now somebody will say `fucking Americans, lying to everyone about Iraq, invading it, and completely fucking it up afterwards' or `george bush is such an asshole' and he's stuck thinking: well, ah, yeah. can't argue with that.
Emerson, the Mormon stereotype was confounded even more among the French because of that stupid translation error in the subtitling of the movie Witness.
! I did not know of this.
62: I've been through this a million times. I tend not to get insulted, because for all the effect that decent Americans have on our foreign policy, there might as well be sixteen of us, and foreign policy is what Frenchmen see. I do tend to get more patriotic overseas, but man, it's hard these days. I was sitting in a cafe in Bolivia in '04, listening to a rich American at the next table explain to his tour guide how he couldn't get his mexicans to work while in the background the radio was recounting the Abu Graib story. Fucking painful.
71: This is great. You had to spend a year in France explaining that you weren't Amish?
it seems to me to be particularly bad between France and the US.... Probably because there is so much similarity
This gets it exactly right. Most other nationalities do not assume that foreigners either want to or ought to want to be just like them. Both France and the U.S.A. have pretensions to universality: America with its "City on the Hill" mythos and France with its mission civilitrice.
With France you get those added layers of resentment that come from almost having been a superpower, and from a deep-seated belief that the inherently superior French culture has been unfairly displaced by the brutish forces of commerce.
Twice in my life, during the Vietnam era and today, I've had to deal with a weird, undiscriminating anti-Americanism among Canadians, who you'd think have no excuse. And most people I'd want to talk know that, but you have to talk to your own family. So I'd think that's an argument against familiarity being enough to do away with this nonsense.
My in-laws have been pretty good about not thinking that all Americans think alike, except they're a little convinced that all Americans think all Canadians live in igloos.
re: 77
Twice in my life, during the Vietnam era and today, I've had to deal with a weird, undiscriminating anti-Americanism among Canadians
You mean when the US state was behaving shittily, people's opinions of Americans went down? Really?
[I'm being snarky, but, seriously, wtf?]
For all my abuse of our lovable Screech-drinking northern neighbors, I may have the option of becoming a Canadian at some point in the near future, and I'm still making up my mind. Defending Canadian aggression against uninhabited islands claimed by the Danes would be a lot easier than the stuff I'm dealing with now. I'd probably end up joining the James Sutherland Brown Brigade.
Canadians
Plaid, right? Do Canadians like Red Green?
I've found the best way to distract the French from lengthy disquisitions on the evils of American foreign policy and the iniquity of American domestic policy is to ask them a question, even a simple one, about food: e.g., "Do they still make pink champagne? What sort of food do you drink it with?" Smooth sailing for three hours after that.
I may have the option of becoming a Canadian at some point in the near future
Hah! I sense a crack in the 'no relationship policy'. You're dating a wolverine, aren't you?
77: I think the CanadianAmerican dynamic is quite complicated. Canadians often get tarred with the same brush as Americans (anglophones, anyways), and they really can't avoid being very aware of what is going on in the US. Americans, on the other hand, are largely blithely unaware of Canada, and take it for granted if at all. I guess it leaves some Canadians feeling like they are having a lot of crap shoved down their throats and not much they can do about it, which can breed resentment, I guess.
I do believe that for the most part Canadians and Americans who actually know each other, like each other and find a lot of similar cultural ground (and some jarring dissimilarities, just because they are otherwise so close).
The indiscriminate stuff is weird, as it always is. You may have a problem with, say the current administration, but projecting that onto 300 million people is a bit crazy (beyond a wtf were you all thinking sort of response), more so by people who presumeably have opportunity to know differentlly. This works in both directions, of course.
78: On average, Americans are suprisingly ignorant about Canada, so this is only a little snide.
You had to spend a year in France explaining that you weren't Amish?
Longer than that, but yes. The thing that really got to me over the years was that after the first spurt of questions about whether I'd been raised with electricity, French people quickly lost curiosity about the varieties of American Protestantism.
79: I mean what JM was talking about wrt the French: affecting to be amazed that an individual American was not gross, self-satisfied, cruel. That American soldiers weren't literal baby-killers, as individuals. Hence "undiscriminating," and built from the cruelest, and least defensible because Canadians absorb so much American culture, stereotypes and straw men.
Na, my brother is a Canadian citizen.
I suppose I could justify a relationship with a hot lady if I could justify it as politically necessary.
Do Mormons consider themselves Protestant?
I've found the best way to distract the French from lengthy disquisitions on the evils of American foreign policy and the iniquity of American domestic policy is to ask them a question, even a simple one, about food
Or about the TGV. Mention that you've heard it's superior to the German ICE, and you're wondering why that is. Works every time.
By contrast, if you want to turn the conversation into an all-out brawl, mention how great it is that Australian wineries are redeveloping the neglected vinicultural areas of the Languedoc and thereby bolstering France's declining market share in export markets.
French people quickly lost curiosity about the varieties of American Protestantism
I don't know about you, but I've always found that few people have any interest in said varieties, and that includes the great majority of church members, who couldn't draw a more-or-less accurate family tree of the major western denominations and what characterizes them to save their lives.
Talked about this w/ M/tch & Sir Kraab.
Do Mormons consider themselves Protestant?
Yes, basically. Church doctrine would have us consider even the other Protestant churches to be part of the historical Whore of Babylon, the falling-away from the true original church upon which the LDS Restoration is built, but most rational Mormons will cop to being fourth or fifth wave Protestants.
Pink champagne can actually be quite good.
92: Then again, why would most people care?
couldn't draw a more-or-less accurate family tree of the major western denominations and what characterizes them to save their lives.
Judging by my wife's French relatives (who, it should be noted, come from a conservative nationalist Catholic milieu), the "family tree" consists of two branches: members of the one true church (RC) and hellbound.
I love that sectarian shit. I can even do a lot of the Eastern churches in Persia, India, Ethiopia, etc. I like medieval heresies too.
By my reading, a lot of fundamentalism (dispensationism) depends on an occult reading of the Bible and is very far from fundamentalist.
92: Then again, why would most people care?
How about basic cultural competency, because of the freighted significance these distinctions had in much history and culture people should know? I'm not talking about knowing what a Nazarene is, I mean knowing what a Methodist is, and what, historically, ethnically, culturally, distinguished it from say Presbyterianism.
Then again, why would most people care?
If they're giving you crap about American Puritanism, or drawing on vast religious stereotypes, or completely fucking getting your weird religious background wrong, perhaps they should care. But no.
As for Mormons being Protestant, I should clarify that I didn't consider myself blanket-Protestant enough to have wanted to pay the German state Protestant church taxes. When I got my residence permit, I had marked "other" for religion, and I wasn't about to let the tax people shoehorn me into their dualistic religious categories. I was all: "Evangelische?! That's Lutheran! And my religious background objects to the state's being involved in this at all, thank you very much!"
Around 1800 or even before a lot of Americans started trying to get down to the True Bible before it had been covered up with Catholic lies. All kinds of shit came out of that: Adventists, Mormons, Armageddonists, and so on. Even the Deists like Jefferson played that game, and some of them may actually believed that they were the true Christians.
That famous, impossible-to-find book The Burned-Over District is really good on the religious explosion in the 1820s.
I may have the option of becoming a Canadian at some point in the near future
I recommend you choose your province on the basis of its official tartan. My favourite is Nova Scotia.
Here's an example we'll love: Keillor is always talking about Lutherans as if everybody ought to know what he means. And many of his listeners do, but obviously, many people from the same class and milieu don't.
He himself isn't one, but Plymouth Brethren, I think.
choose your province on the basis of its official tartan. My favourite is Nova Scotia
Got a vast amount of stuff in that while growing up. Seemed an easy gift: ties, socks, book covers, anything fabric.
Everyone should know what a Lutheran is. It's not rocket surgery.
That's fiendish of you, IA. I'll be in Lotusland.
In the US "Lutheran" is an ethnic-geographical term, meaning Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc. There are actually Lutherans in Texas, but they're very different.
There is one significant thing: in America, Lutherans (like Catholics and probably Orthodox and Jews) are more communitarian and less individualist than British Protestants. That's where the socially-conservative New Deal liberals are found.
He himself isn't one, but Plymouth Brethren, I think
Hmmm. I always wondered what the factual basis for the fictitious "Sanctified Brethren" sect in Lake Wobegone Days was.
99: Ok, at that level it makes sense. All the tiny branches are irrelevant if you aren't directly involved.
106: This is only true in the sense that everyone should know what the difference between shinto and zen buddism is, or what (culturally) Sikhs are, or Jains.
With France you get those added layers of resentment that come from almost having been a superpower, and from a deep-seated belief that the inherently superior French culture has been unfairly displaced by the brutish forces of commerce.
If I were French (ugly thought, but bear with me) I would take great pleasure in reminding Americans at length about the vital role of French support in the American War of Independence (Lafayette, Chesapeake Bay, etc) and finish up by saying "So, if it weren't for us, you'd be speaking English".
If it weren't for Gen. Wolfe, I'd be speaking French.
Everyone should know the difference between shinto and buddhism. And the difference between a sikkhism and jainism.
111: if it weren't for the British educational system, I'd be speaking French, and German, and be able to do calculus.
And the difference between a sikkhism and jainism.
The Jains are the ones who submit meekly to colonial rule, and the Sikhs are the ones who put up a fight before you crush them under the heel of the imperial boot, right?
If it wasn't for those last few evolutionary changes, we'd all be on the plains of East Africa communicating by grunts and hoots. Pretty much like blogging, in fact.
Everyone should know what a Lutheran is.
Lutheran services make liberal use of the slow jam hymnal.
Do either Penny, or IA, or soup biscuit, or DS, or anybody, know the words to "The Maple Leaf Forever?"
Alif Sikkiin, born and raised in Hamilton, had never heard it or of it when I brought it up on these here threads, and I'm sure it's much, much less heard now than it was pre-sixties.
I mention it because it starts: "In days of yore, from England's shore, Wolfe the dauntless..."
Benjamin West's Death of Wolfe used to be on the main stairway of the Canadian National Gallery when I was growing up.
Not that it makes dog-rescue boy any less of a shithead, but he might have been thinking of Syriac Christians, many of whom used to live in what is now Turkey until they were almost all (a) massacred or (b) driven out in the first quarter of the 20th century. And who are Semites, in the sense of speaking a Semitic language.
I picture the guy getting this information from a conversation in a bar and/or with a coworker and only remembering the bit about Turkey and Christians and "no, we're not Armenians, we're Semites, goddamn it!"
PS - I remember reading an early-20th-century history of Armenia in which the historian lamented how Armenia's conversion to Christianity as a state religion transformed the people from a vibrant, Aryan race into a race of backward Semitic priest-whipped prayer-mumblers.
117: You mean: http://ingeb.org/songs/indaysof.html ?
That's what I mean, and in fact rebembered "Britain's" but couldn't be sure I hadn't corrected it from "England's"
Forty years ago that was virtually the anglophone Nat'l Anthem, and you certainly had to learn it in school. Now I guess not.
Forty years ago that was virtually the anglophone Nat'l Anthem, and you certainly had to learn it in school.
Not in Catholic school.
IA was too busy making parcel bombs for the IRA to fool with "The Maple Leaf Forever".
A was too busy making parcel bombs for the IRA FLQ to fool with "The Maple Leaf Forever".
119: That's the most plausible explanation, yes, though he might just be an idiot. Also, don't most Syriac Christians in the US belong to the Assyrian church and describe themselves as "Assyrian"?
120: There's a strong strain of traditional racism that identifies all the negative aspects of modern society with the "Semitic" elements (original purportedly of Jewish origin) introduced into "Aryan" Europe by Christianity.
Hi idp, yes, I do know the words to The Maple Leaf Forever. My mum (also born and raised in Hamilton) sang it while doing the dishes. She learned it in school, and warned me that it would offend francophones. I guess she liked the tune.
After hearing "Wolfe the dauntless hero" that many times I learned recently of Wolfe's famous line re my ancestors: that Scottish soldiers should be sent into battle because "they are hardy, intrepid, accustomed to a rough country, and no great mischief if they fall."
I may have the option of becoming a Canadian at some point in the near future
Yesss!
I'd been hoping Girl27 and I could fly you in on a rural development grant.
I'm going to go read what happened on that archived thread.
Girl27 and I could fly you in on a rural development grant
Just like being invited to Paris, except Canadian!
129: IOW, the absolute opposite of being invited to Paris!
I'd love to see Montreal and Quebec. I can read French but speak very poorly if at all.
I asked my friend who lives there, "So, is Quebec an important center of French culture, or a bunch of French-speaking hillbillies?" He answered "Yes".
Hatch's Democratization of American Christianity is good at putting Mormonism in the context of other Christian religious groups in the early 19th century US.
I was in Ottawa briefly, with hopes of seeing the National Gallery, shortly after the blackout in 2003. Everything in the way of sightseeing I'd planned was still closed and I ended up spending most of my time in a park reading.
94: Do not believe Jackmormon. Mormons do not consider themselves Protestant. Their theology/ecclesiology holds that all Protestant churches have it wrong, just not as wrong as the Catholics, and in any case lack the proper authority from God to save people. Jesus had to come back down to earth and re-found his church through Joseph Smith. Mormons do consider Martin Luther and other Protestant founders to be seekers headed in the right direction.
Jackmormon -- Pink champagne is best! Mmm . . . Billecart-Salmon Brut Rosé.
(The French never think I'm American because I am tiny and black-haired rather than big and blond. When I explain, no, really, I am totally American, they insist that I should never say américaine -- only new-yorkaise. But I won't do it because I feel like I need to, you know, represent.)
Billecart-Salmon Brut Rosé
Hey, I just had some of this. Yummy indeed.
Yeah, JM is full of it! Stone her!
My sister has a Christianist friend who distinguishes between "Protestant" and "non-denominational". To her "non-denominational" means (among other things) "no old fashioned boring music". The one she goes to seems a bit charismatic and prosperity-gospelish, and accepting of sinners, people with problems, unrespectable people, and strangers.
I'd like to see a study, but I really believe that the virulence of the homophobia of the new churches is sort of a way that they let flawed converts to separate themselves from their own problematic pasts, by condemning someone even worse than them.
Another year in the successful defense of my second virginity, Ben.
140: So you weren't sipping it out of a maribou slipper?
I hate it when you people talk about drinking during business hours.
I didn't say that.
I distinctly heard you say "ethical obligation."
Also, don't most Syriac Christians in the US belong to the Assyrian church and describe themselves as "Assyrian"?
It is all very complicated. There are any number of different types of Arab and Aramaic speaking Christians from the Middle East.
The Assyrians are Nestorians - they don't accept the Council of Ephesus of 431.
Then there are the Non-Chalcedonians - the Syrian Orthodox and the Copts (and the Armenians) AKA Monophysites, who don't accept the Council of Chalcedon in 451.
Then there are the Eastern Orthodox - the followers of the Eastern Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch and Patriarch of Jerusalem, largely.
Finally, there are eastern Catholics - the Maronites of Lebanon (whose origins are obscure) and then, generally, various splinter groups from all the others who reunited with Rome in the nineteenth century - Chaldeans (AKA Assyrian Catholics), Coptic Catholics, Syrian Catholics, and Melkite Catholics (AKA those who broke away from the eastern Orthodox Church).
Extremely complicated.
the Maronites of Lebanon (whose origins are obscure)
Didn't they they accept the authority of the Pope during the Crusades or something?
Anyway, very interesting. Is my impression correct that of those groups the one with the largest immigrant population in the US is the Assyrians, located mainly in Detroit and Chicago?
And are their cohorts in fact all gleaming in purple and gold?
Just like being invited to Paris, except Canadian!
Yes, and by Paris I mean Elgin, ND.
I miss Montreal so much. When we graduated and went to Ontario to look for work our class banned mentioning Montreal because it was bad for morale. You'd love it there Emerson. But that would be the death of the policy, I'm afraid.
132 is hilarious.
Maronites of Lebanon (whose origins are obscure)
Monothelites. They moved to Lebanon from Syria, probably to escape from the Byzantines after they managed to take that particular part of Syria back from the Arabs. For a bit.
Yes, they accepted the Pope's authority at the end of the Crusades, since there weren't any other monothelites left anyways and it was a dumb compromise some Emperor came up with in the first place.
Also, yes, the Assyrians are a pretty big community - the head of the Assyrian church has been in Chicago for like thirty years. (Well, the main branch of the Assyrian church, there was a smaller one that splintered off with an archbishop or whatever still in Baghdad, though I don't know what's happened with that since the war started).
(Of course, that's the Assyrian church, while the Assyrian community in the states is split between the Assyrian church and the Chaldean catholic church.)
what people say when they think only their own kind is around
As I'm sure I've said before on this blog, my Puerto Rican girlfriend says, truly, that it's "amazing what white people say when they think they're the only people in the room."
You should hear us when we don't think there are any colonials in earshot.
