Re: For The Less Taxidermically Inclined

1

pirogues.

Canoes?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:34 AM
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Shit. I just posted this in the wrong thread. To repeat:
Oh boo. I adore Veselka and would love to have come, but I will be in beautiful Portage Co., OH.
Ah, Veselka . . . I've basically crawled there on hands and knees on particularly crapulent Sunday mornings.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:35 AM
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Aparrently Polish cuisine is the new Thai.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:39 AM
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3: I think Veselka is Ukranian, and, while Polish fare would be most appropriate, given my tribe, I'll gladly accede to the knowing recommendation of the locals.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:44 AM
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In Minneapolis Frowner and Minneapolitan took me to a very nice Polish haute cuisine place. It's in a theatre Minneapolitan is involved with. Oddly, the week before I'd had sauerkraut-sausage soup with my Polish neighbors.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:48 AM
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Well that experiment didn't last long.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:48 AM
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Kids today, man.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:50 AM
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I believe this weekend is Polish independence day. At least, some friends are having a party for it.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:50 AM
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On my very first day in New York ever, I wandered around for hours and ended up at Little Veselka in First Park.

Yes, I was (slowly, but surely) making my way to an Unfogged meetup.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:50 AM
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You already closed the other thread? What's the worst that could happen?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:50 AM
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I thought it was an interesting idea, ogged.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:51 AM
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Kids today, man.

Don't worry, beef again tomorrow.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:51 AM
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Polish food is good. There's one decent Polish place in Oxford. I have eaten there with a refugee from Unfogged.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:53 AM
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Please tell me that Ukrainian food is nothing like German food. I nearly starved away to nothing the year I lived in Germany.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:54 AM
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What's the worst that could happen?
Ogged couldn't handle my eerily accurate impersonation.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:54 AM
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Apropos of the aborted thread, where do I file an official notice of intent to change handle to something that could pass LB's standards?


Posted by: neil | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:56 AM
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Ukrainian food is very much like Polish and Russian food. A little like German food, but not really.

To make the meetup o-interesting, everyone must show up wearing Nixon masks.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:56 AM
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16: you just did. what's the new handle?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:56 AM
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I nearly starved away to nothing the year I lived in Germany.

What's wrong with you?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:57 AM
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OK. no longer just 'neil.'


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:00 AM
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Gender agreement?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:01 AM
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I wasn't with all the cool people in Berlin, Mr. w-lfs-n.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:01 AM
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Of the closed thread: I feel half-indignant, half like we got swatted with the newspaper. It only went on for ten minutes or so. This is a bit of a trigger for me, to be categorically shut down for being annoying.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:02 AM
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Yeah, JackM, what gives? It is a city-related thing? Where were you? While I was in Berlin, I had some of the best Indian food, Thai food, and Shawarma products evar.

Actually, my breakfast/lunch every day was a 3 Euro shawarma from the Egyptian guys down the street. They used this yogurt-based sauce that was really yummy.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:02 AM
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But German food is good!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:02 AM
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I assume that JM was in some Dorf where you couldn't get thai food or the like. But I bet you could get sausages.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:03 AM
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'La mano', man. I follow ogged's dictum of "speak [x]ish, dammit."


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:04 AM
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You're free to be annoying, heebie, but I can't stand impersonations.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:04 AM
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Fair enough.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:05 AM
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I was in Mainz, and there are only so many sausages one can eat.

I ordered a potsticker from a chinese restaurant there, and I swear to God the thing they served me was like a burrito. SO GROSS.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:06 AM
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Yeah, I thought the last post was hilarious. The post suggested trying an experiment, and had an update saying "you all suck and this was a bad idea," and comments were already closed. I was only gone for an hour or two! And the comments were even better. Two trying and failing to follow the experiment, one off-topic, followed by one commenter spoofing for most if not all of the next 30 comments... classic.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:07 AM
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Ukrainian food is very much like Polish and Russian food.

Wow, sign me up. More buttered buckwheat chaff, please.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:08 AM
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When I was in Poland, all I ate was pierogies and Italian food. More of the latter than the former, I'm ashamed to say, but it was a very very hot July.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:09 AM
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Borscht is disgusting. Russian food on the whole is totally awful; there is only so much cabbage and beet a man can eat, and dill might be a perfectly fine spice on occasion but it hardly belongs in every dish that comes along.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:18 AM
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Borscht is disgusting.

Good borscht is bloody delicious. Seriously, what kind of weird fucked up borscht have you had?


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:18 AM
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Gender agreement?

Mano is feminine, oddly enough.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:20 AM
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Good borscht is bloody delicious.

...said the native of Haggisland.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:20 AM
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Heebie wasn't annoying, but Ogged was annoyed, and possession is nine points of the law.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:20 AM
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That being said, I've never had borscht.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:20 AM
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Haggis is also fucking delicious.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:21 AM
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mano negra

erm, this is either a really overrated pop band (fronted by the execrable Manu Chao), or a 19th century Spanish anarchist-terrorist group. Are you sending a message?


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:22 AM
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Restauarant culture has evolved rapidly in the ostblock since 1993, still not great, still improving. Anyone eating anything paid for rather than home-cooked a few years back would have good reason to hate the food.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:22 AM
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Borscht, sauerkraut, potatos, sausage, pierogi and other dumplings. Mmmm. Ham. Kasha. Even turnips.

Get with the trend, folks. You're so 2006.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:23 AM
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I've had the sort of borscht that's made with beets, cabbage, fucking dill, and a Soviet apathy for the common welfare, is the sort of borscht I've had.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:23 AM
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Heh. I just bemused my depressed Scottish vegetarian coworker by being aware that there is such a thing as vegetarian haggis, and that it's good with curry sauce. (She claims that you can't get it imported into the US though because of rules against importing offal -- the Customs Service gets so stuck on the idea of 'haggis' that 'vegetarian' doesn't get through to them.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:23 AM
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Borscht is great. Don't make me close this thread.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:23 AM
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I can't believe that there's anyone who doesn't like borscht.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:24 AM
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Borscht, vareniki, those vinaigrette carrots with the cumin seeds -- all excellent. I enjoy foods on top of which one is expected to load sour cream.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:24 AM
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Borscht is a plague visited upon sinful men by an angry God. Christ, I hate that stuff. The beet is my natural enemy.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:25 AM
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36 pwned by 27.

I ordered a potsticker from a chinese restaurant there, and I swear to God the thing they served me was like a burrito. SO GROSS.

Chinese food in Germany is truly disgusting, but then again, it is almost everywhere else outside of the US, including China, so BFD.

I can imagine that lithe little jackmormon isn't likely to be the type to get off on German food, but if you like that sort of thing, it can be awesome. In Mainz you have Presskopf and Saumagen; further up the Rhine you get fabulous white asparagus; there's all the delicious breads and smoked hams (true Black Forest ham indescribably good); there's fresh Pfifferlinge (chanterelles), of which I can never eat my fill. And the desserts.... I could go on and on, but now I've made myself hungry for lunch.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:25 AM
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Borscht comes in myriad forms. There's a borscht for everyone, 'Smasher, even you.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:26 AM
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45: LB, I'm a vegetarian and my sweetheart is a (strapping, ginger-headed) Scottish vegetarian, and folks are forever sending us veggie haggis. It comes in a can and is basically sesasoned oats and lentils in a plastic casing. You boil the whole thing and then cut the casing off.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:27 AM
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Chinese food in Germany is truly disgusting, but then again, it is almost everywhere else outside of the US, including China

Congratulations, KR, This may well be the most wrong statement on unfogged.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:27 AM
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I could understand hating turnips or parsnips, but beets?

I made a beet gratin from Larousse Gastronomique the other day, and it was fucking delicious.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:27 AM
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heh at 45.

re: 51

Yeah, I have about 8 recipes for it and I only have a couple of vaguely 'eastern' cookbooks. All of the recipes are very different.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:28 AM
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52: Got a link to a source? She really is depressed, and was sad about being unable to get veggie haggis shipped here.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:28 AM
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Veering off-topic, Kucinich's resolution to begin impeachment of Dick Cheney almost made it to the House floor when Republicans started voting for it, but then Steny Hoyer sent it on to the Judiciary Committee, where it will gradually die of neglect. I had to chuckle at this from the Washington Post:

But it became a partisan issue yesterday once Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.) moved to table Kucinich's resolution. Hoyer and Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) have said they will not back such symbolic gestures, for fear of burnishing Congress's current do-nothing image.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:28 AM
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The mushrooms and white asparagus were good. I'll give the Rhineland that. The other problem was that I was living on German university wages: I was so poor, so, so poor.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:29 AM
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KR's comment about Chinese food is one of those things that makes those of us outside the US hate the fuck out of you [collectively].


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:29 AM
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53 was me


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:30 AM
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re: 56

http://www.scottishfoodoverseas.com/macsweens-haggis.html

That might be a possibility.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:31 AM
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I hate beets and all their works. Forced to choose between the eradication of beets and the ability to fly (with bonus super-strength if you order now!), I would be hard pressed.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:31 AM
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57: The interesting thing about that was that at one point, the majority voted to table the impeachment bill, but leadership held the vote open long enough for Republicans to reverse its outcome. So, who's throwing who into a briar patch? Hard to say.

Refusing to doing something, though, is no way to overcome your do-nothing image.


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:31 AM
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61: They don't ship to the US.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:32 AM
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re: 64

Yeah, just found that out.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:33 AM
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61: There's a pulldown menu listing countries to which haggis can be shipped. We're not on it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:33 AM
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Congratulations, KR, This may well be the most wrong statement on unfogged.

Are you implying that there's not a lot (most likely a majority if you exclude rice and some regions' noodles) of fairly gross Chinese food in China? Because that certainly matches my East Asian experiences.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:35 AM
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59: The scots hate us more than most. This is the similarity argument again: the scots hate us extra, the french hate us extra. What do we and these nations share? Anti-English resentment.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:35 AM
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http://www.caledoniankitchen.com/catalog/index.php/cPath/33

There. I've never seen haggis in a tin before. It normally comes either wrapped in a plastic shrink wrapping [which you cook it in] for veggie haggis. Or in the actual stomach [for real haggis].


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:36 AM
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Good borscht is bloody delicious.

Sometimes "bloody" is a gross adjective.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:37 AM
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So, who's throwing who into a briar patch?

I was wondering this also. I'm also beginning to suspect that when the time comes, I may feel I have no choice but to vote for Kucinich.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:37 AM
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Many thanks -- god knows if she actually wants to order haggis, but the link should at least cheer her up.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:37 AM
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I hated borscht the first time I had it, but pretty early on in my Ukrainian sojourn I realized it's amazing when made well.

The rest of Ukrainian cuisine has its ups and downs, but yeah, they don't have many spices beyond salt, pepper, onions, and dill. You have to learn to take pleasure in plain carbs and fat.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:37 AM
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This is the similarity argument again: the scots hate us extra, the french hate us extra. What do we and these nations share? Anti-English resentment.

Alternate explanation: both peoples are good at hate.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:38 AM
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69: The "click to enlarge" option on this product page is most unhelpful. What's a presentation haggis?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:40 AM
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re: 68

I don't hate Americans generally. I just get annoyed by some of the things they say and do!

The US food snobbery -- 'oh, no [insert ethnic food] anywhere is as good as the [ethnic food] made by [3rd generation immigrants] in [US city]' -- is infuriating. I can totally buy someone saying that, 'Oh you can't get really good chowder outside of New England'. I totally can't buy someone saying, 'Oh you can't get really good chow-mein/rogan-josh/whatever outside of New York'.

This is especially annoying when you are living in, say, the colonial power that original controlled the place that food is from and where you can't chuck a stick without hitting people from there.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:40 AM
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67:

no, not at all. There is bad food everywhere.

The claim was that US chinese food represented some sort of pinnacle, which is laughably inaccurate. It's actually difficult to get decent chinese food in much of the US, even if we restrict it to `north american chinese food' which is a different cuisine and, although plentiful everywhere here, much of isn't much good.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:40 AM
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Expanding on 67:

This is a common problem, as, well, most food is kind of gross. Most people can't cook very well, and there are lots of things eaten in this world that start out incredibly unappetizing and then are subjected to bad preparation. Most American food in America is pretty crappy too (though still not as bad as American food outside America).

I'd argue that America probably has a slightly higher hit rate of decent food in restaurants and the such because we're a richer country, with a much larger service industry to reward good chefs that go into business and a vast logistics system set up to provide quality raw ingredients. We are not forced to use the unpleasant parts of animals or plants for food, and the luxury of waste brings up the quality slightly.

Also, none of this is to argue that China doesn't have a lot of fucking great food, and I'm sure KR will agree.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:41 AM
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re: 75

Those presentation haggises are just normal haggises. That's what haggis looks like. I presume they call them presentation haggises because they are larger and are the sort that would be presented at the table at a banquet for, say, Burns Night.

re: 70

I've eaten blood soup, in Czech. Also soup with brains in.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:41 AM
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Hey 69 (um) -- that's the link I was about to send. But that isn't the haggis we're sent. But I guess ours is sent to us privately (and illegally! who knew!).


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:42 AM
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The recipe for a grand version of borscht in the soup book which should be in every kitchen begins with eight pounds of meat including ham hocks, beef brisket and pork shoulder. 'An especially luxurious version,' it goes on to say, may incorporate roasted duck or goose added to the other meats at the end. What's not to love?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:44 AM
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re: 81

The version I make, from a Jewish cookbook published in the Czech Republic, uses a load of meat. I just make it with a couple of pounds of pork though.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:46 AM
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We are not forced to use the unpleasant parts of animals or plants for food
See, this brings down the quality of food on account of squeamishness. Like 79, I've enjoyed blood soup, and morcilla is fucking tasty.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:46 AM
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78: We are not forced to use the unpleasant parts of animals or plants for food

Was that part a joke? Because US standards in this are definitely not normative.

Anyway, the economic argument has some merit if you are comparing vastly different economies, but it's a wash in `developed' countries. In the US, emphasis is definitely not on food quality, but on convenience, speed, cheapness. So there is an awful lot of mediocre food here. The amount of processed food has definitely had a negative trend in quality.

That being said, of course you can get great food in the US too.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:46 AM
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I suspect that one of the other reasons the US has a lot of good ethnic cuisine is that there isn't really a tradition here of The Great, True, and Authentic Way of Preparing Food. The Europeans I know are hamstrung by their vague awareness that Grandmother cooked everything in a very specific, laborious way.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:46 AM
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78: FWIW, Tyler Cowen argues that America actually has worse raw ingredients ("at least, if you have a U.S. income to spend"). I see a lot of "vast logistics system" going on in the American food industry, but I don't see it going towards quality.


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:47 AM
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In Taiwan good food was everywhere, often very cheap. The Chinese themselves care a lot about food; for many, it's their only indulgence. I can't believe what KR said.

I did go to a very cheap quickie breakfast place once which served very thin soup and "grease-stick" pastries once, and it was not good. Everyday Chinese food isn't necessarily bad, but it's very simple and uninteresting.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:48 AM
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re: 85

The Europeans I know are hamstrung by their vague awareness that Grandmother cooked everything in a very specific, laborious way.

I suspect that applies more in France and Italy than it does elsewhere in Europe.

I think the availability of 'ethnic' cuisine varies a lot by place. Amsterdam -- huge amounts of a high quality. Ditto London, Glasgow, etc. I presume Berlin, various Scandinavian cities, etc are the same.

The major cities of former colonial powers usually have shitloads of really good restaurants.

'Ethnic' food in Prague is universally pretty poor, though.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:50 AM
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88: The sushi in Stockholm was pretty good.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:52 AM
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I have been told that the basic Czech food is lard. True?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:52 AM
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85: I think the main reason there is a lot of good ethnic food in north america is an immigrant population who are willing/able to do the very specific, laborious work. You really mostly can't take shortcuts with food without it reducing quality (hence, lots of mediocre food in a rich society, because time is pressed)

I've watched two very good indian places and one amazing sezchuan place go out of business upon retirement because they couldn't find anyone in a younger generation willing to take over from them and work the kind of hours they did, and they weren't willing to sacrifice quality.

One of the indian places had a sweet counter, the old guy used to show up at 5am every morning to make them, and didn't leave until 10 or 11pm, with a break in the afternoon. His kids all thought he was absolutely insane.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:53 AM
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The major cities of former colonial powers centers of immigration usually have shitloads of really good restaurants.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:53 AM
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I am amused by the strain of comments amounting to some equivalent of 'The cuisine of the Germans is great, for I had wonderful Thai food there.'

I'm sure there's some interesting reason, country of aspirational immigrants, something like that, that the chief virtue of food for Americans of a certain generation seems to be that it's plentiful and inexpensive.

People often confuse 'authentic' for 'tasty.' I am all for tasty food, and to the extent that 'authentic' is a proxy for tasty, that's great. But sometimes authentic food means boiling the hell out of vegetables.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:55 AM
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re: 90

Nah. I assume you are kidding? A lot of it is pretty nice. Meat, dumplings, sauces. Pickled veg, etc. Great soups. Carp.

It does tend to be fairly stodgy and heavy, though.

re: 92

This is true. It just tends that the two go together. The US would be the exception on that.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:55 AM
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88: I ate at an Icelandic restaurant in Prague (I know, I know &mdash who hasn't?). The food was excellent, but I can't attest to its authenticity.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:56 AM
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I make many of the soups (including borscht) from this, my favorite Russian cookbook. We used to have big parties that consisted of table after table of zakuski (sort of Russian finger food/appetizers/drinking food) from that book and loads of vodka.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:56 AM
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I was in Thailand for months and came away liking California Thai food better than Thai Thai food. Californian Thai food was less oily and not so strongly flavored with fish sauce and used more vegetables. But one likes what one is used to, I suppose.

Borscht is awesome.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:58 AM
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What's not to love?

Dill! Winter vegetables! The fact that you're eating it every fucking meal of the day! Except for the rare treat day when the kommandantka decides to make some porridge horror and call it kasha.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:59 AM
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95: Can't be too careful about Icelandic restaurants. How can you really be sure that it really was fermented shark, and not some cut-rate fish with urea added?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:59 AM
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that the chief virtue of food for Americans of a certain generation seems to be that it's plentiful and inexpensive.

This is true to such an alarming degree that it has completely screwed up the agricultural economy, in ways that are very difficult to fix.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:00 AM
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liking California Thai food better than Thai Thai food.

Well, yeah. The not-quite-so-obnoxious version of ttaM's ugly American is talking about how you can't get the kind of, e.g., Indian food they make in NYC's East Village anyplace else, and that's the kind he likes.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:01 AM
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KR's comment about Chinese food is one of those things that makes those of us outside the US hate the fuck out of you [collectively].

For the record, I meant that to be tongue in cheek. I've never been to China, so I have no basis for an informed opinion on the matter.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:01 AM
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Stanley should smash Smasher next time he sees him.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:01 AM
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Greece is almost totally free of non-indigenous food. Not only that, there are about ten things that every restaurant serves. Lucky for me I find those things delicious but, boy, you'd think they'd get bored.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:02 AM
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104: Portugal is like this too.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:03 AM
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re: 101

And that seems fair enough. Preferring the food where you are from because it's been modified* in ways that are in line with how you personally like it seems a reasonable preference to have.

Stating, on the other hand, that the only worthwhile food of type-X anywhere in the world is from where you are from, isn't so agreeable.

* I'm not placing any value on 'authenticity' here.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:03 AM
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104,5: And northern spain.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:04 AM
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I was in Thailand for months and came away liking California Thai food better than Thai Thai food.

I can't imagine this. American Thai restaurants will not -- no matter how much you plead -- put enough chili in. Also, I have yet to have green papaya salad in this country that's even close to what you can get from any street vendor in Bangkok.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:04 AM
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For the record: I could probably make a Sunday afternoon meetup in the East Village and would be gracious about eating Ukrainian food.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:05 AM
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I'm at work, so I haven't read the thread, but the meetup is so we can all hang with Stanley in a less-loud environment than the shows. If you're interested in coming (or have other suggestions--I just happen to be fond of Ukrainian food on a hungover Sunday afternoon) please email me! I has a phone number and stuff.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:05 AM
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101: Chinese food in the US really is a funny example of that though, because of the long history and the fact that whan most random north americans (it's much the same in canada) think of as `chinese food' is really invented in north america. And the bog standard version that shows up in strip malls everywhere tends to suck pretty badly.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:05 AM
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But ttaM's reviled ugly American is just right when it comes to certain fusion or hybrid cuisines. And really, I'm just talking about Tex-Mex.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:06 AM
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111: San Francisco-style burritos are another funny example of the same phenomenon, with much the same demographics.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:08 AM
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Greece is almost totally free of non-indigenous food food that isn't a local adaptation of Ottoman Turkish cuisine.

And yet, you bring the Greeks to America, and they are perfectly content to open pizzerias. Go figure.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:08 AM
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I am not-quite-so-obnoxious!!

Not only that, there are about ten things that every restaurant serves. Lucky for me I find those things delicious but, boy, you'd think they'd get bored.

Back when my mom was married to an Iranian man, she asked him one time if he had ever eaten a dish that didn't have a name. If I had to name an entree, it would be, like, 'Summer Vegetable Mess Vaguely Derived from Ratatouille'. Or, 'Salad with More Ginger This Time'. But every single dish from his childhood had a name and set of ingredients.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:08 AM
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108: You see any papya trees around?

The spicing thing seems to be really regional. Many parts of the US are used to terribly bland food, and it effects the expectations of ethnic restraunts too. Others, not as much. It's weird though -- in the bay area you can get hot kung pao, but it's difficult to get a proper curry.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:11 AM
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The names for Iranian dishes seem to be things like "Green-Bean Stew," though.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:12 AM
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American Thai restaurants will not -- no matter how much you plead -- put enough chili in.

Come to Portland, Sifu, I've got just the place for you. The heat scale is 1-20; 5 is intensely hot, and I can only assume that anything above 15 would take your head clean off. Plus, delicious papaya salad.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:12 AM
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Anyway, the economic argument has some merit if you are comparing vastly different economies, but it's a wash in `developed' countries.

I was talking about the US versus China. I'm not going to argue the quality of ethnic food in certain European capitals, as some of it is quite exquisite and some of the capitals (London, especially) are just too damn expensive for me to have tried any of the good places (but what I have tried was excellent).


Was that part a joke? Because US standards in this are definitely not normative.

Somewhat a joke. I've had one hell of a lot of different delicacies from different places, and some were quite delicious. What they shared much more often than tastiness was a tendency to be extremely energy-dense (pure fat, etc.) and semi-rare. I try to keep an open mind, but I still have ended up finding meat to be the tastiest part of animals, and I think there's a reason it's the most commonly served portion in most countries that can afford it being common (liver being the one possible exception, with it's buttery texture and insane nutritional value).


78: FWIW, Tyler Cowen argues that America actually has worse raw ingredients ("at least, if you have a U.S. income to spend"). I see a lot of "vast logistics system" going on in the American food industry, but I don't see it going towards quality.

A lot of it is focused toward cost, for obvious reasons, but there is a definite market for upscale quality raw ingredients. My time in England didn't exactly endear their supermarkets to me (except for the availability of cheap pesto), and I can say with nigh certainty that the ingredients for foreign cuisines are more available here than in any of the developing countries where I have spent a lot of time.

Basically, no, it's not perfect. And other countries will obviously have better local cuisines with fresher ingredients. But America's probably got an overall edge due to a combination of domestic horticultural variety, lower agricultural product tariffs than any other developed countries (a sad sign of international trade policy), extreme wealth, large numbers of immigrants, and considerable inequality compared to other developed countries.

But I'm really not too tied to this, and ttaM has a point that Americans, big city folks especially, can be insufferable on food snobbery. Hell, just track down the threads where you people discuss kitchen knives for evidence.

And with that, I'm off to lunch.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:13 AM
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114: I know some greeks who would vigorously dispute that assertion. You see, I imagine they'd say, the Ottomans got the idea from the Greeks in the first place.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:13 AM
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113: SF style burritos are tasty, so much so that they export them to Boston, e.g. Anna's.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:14 AM
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Authentic Ukrainian food is actually found a couple doors down from Veselka at Ukrainian East Village Restaurant. (Note the charmingly authentic naming scheme from a land where dairy stores are called "Milk" and butcher shops are called "Meat.") But Veselka has windows, which UEVR does not, and is more likely to have Maggie Gyllenhal sitting a couple tables over. The pierogies (should be called varenniki, as I think they are at UEVR) are fine at both places.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:14 AM
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116: You see any papya trees around?

Well, right, I wasn't saying the papaya salad's made poorly out of mean-spiritedness.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:15 AM
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Sure, but you wouldn't substitute fresh corn for the green beans and also cut the liquid to change the consistency, just to be all wild and crazy. That would not be a proper dish, with a name.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:15 AM
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Second the Portland nomination. I go to a different Thai place than Jesus, with a 5-point scale, and 2.5 ("mild-plus") was the absolute limit of what I could stand.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:16 AM
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How we get burritos in NYC.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:17 AM
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120: Greeks will dispute lots of things. They'll probably invade Macedonia someday, because it used to be Greek.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:17 AM
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I know some greeks who would vigorously dispute that assertion.

All of them, in fact. And kimono is derived from the Greek word for himono, meaning winter.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:19 AM
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127: everything used to be Greek, as far as I can tell. The specific Greek-American I'm thinking of is endlessly fun to get riled up: all you have to do is mention e.g. Easter or the Roman Empire or NATO and he's off and running.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:19 AM
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129 - Hee. I play that game with my Armenian-American friend. So easy! So rewarding!


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:20 AM
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126: Haha! But have you ever tried El Paso Taqueria (I think now there are 3 Spanish Harlem locations)? It is the most echt Mexican food I have ever had in NYC.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:21 AM
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re: 129

Yeah, Scots are like that about pretty much everything from the late Enlightenment onwards.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:22 AM
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I got a furious letter from a Greek-American about an obscure joke on my website about something that happened a thousand years. He may have had a point, but he started off with insults and invective and as a matter of principle, I let the joke stand. I think I was speculating that Harald Hadrada had screwed Anna Comnena, or something like that.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:24 AM
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"ago"


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:24 AM
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The sad thing is when you have to explain to Greek people in Greece that, no, there really isn't much of a chance that Michael Dukakis will make a comeback and finally be elected President as God intended.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:24 AM
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How we get burritos in NYC.

This still cracks me up when I think about it. It's a great idea executed well.

And I've never eaten at one of his places, but if Rick Bayless' grasp of Mexican cuisine is anything like his grasp of the history and culture, I'll pass.


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:24 AM
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Scots are like that about pretty much everything from the late Enlightenment onwards

You need to get Thomas Cahill to pen a volume. I figure he's got a pretty good business model going (ethnic flattery publishing), and there's enough chauvinistic groups around the world that he can probably keep his racket going for decades.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:27 AM
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135: on the other hand, I saw him give a speech the other day and he was loose, funny, and very engaging. Not running for President does wonders for a person. On the other hand he did make a Danny Kaye reference in some kind of bid for cultural relevance.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:28 AM
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And then, on the fifth hand...


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:28 AM
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And really, I'm just talking about Tex-Mex.

You have to be more regional that `in the US' though. There are huge swathes of the country where teh tex-mex or cali-mex you can get probably isn't any better than what you would find in, say, germany.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:29 AM
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The sad thing is when you have to explain to Greek people in Greece that, no, there really isn't much of a chance that Michael Dukakis will make a comeback

I was in Turkey not long before the '88 election. Turks I spoke to didn't need much convincing that Dukakis was going to go down in flames, and they seemed pretty satisfied with that.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:32 AM
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on the other hand, I saw him give a speech the other day and he was loose, funny, and very engaging

The suspicion that they're all better than the media caricatures—who wouldn't be?—make judging on the basis of those caricatures, which we can't help doing unless we live in a cave even more nauseating than it would otherwise be.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:33 AM
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Damn he would have made a good President though. I'm still with The Duke.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:33 AM
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who wouldn't be?

This question has been answered empirically.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:34 AM
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142: I saw him give plenty of speeches and whatnot during and before the 88 campaign, and he genuinely was a lot stiffer than he is now.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:34 AM
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One of the sadder experiences of my political life was the '88 election. I was a college freshman, and lost track of politics because of the distractions of school. When I stopped focusing, in the summer, Dukakis was winning. On Election Day I thought he still had a shot. I was so wrong, and so sad about it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:36 AM
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146: I went to the Dukakis victory party (you can hardly throw a defeat party now, can you?) on election night in Boston. One of the most depressing scenes I've ever seen, from the mockingly elaborate diplays of red, white and blue balloons, to the once-eager staffers standing around shell-shocked, to the memorabilia collectors prowling like vultures for buttons and stickers. It was in this cavernous space (the old World Trade Center pier) and I swear to god it was like being in a misery cave.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:39 AM
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You need to get Thomas Cahill to pen a volume.

Arthur Herman beat him to it.


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:41 AM
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I'll point out again that Dukakis is a Vlach-American or Arumanian-American. The Vlachs / Arumanians are Greek nationals who speak a romance dialect.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:41 AM
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Dukakis teaches at UCLA, and I know a number of people who think the world of him.

Does this mean Tweety is back in LA?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:42 AM
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147: I still have a tshirt that says "New Jersey and Mike: Perfect Together" from when I worked on his primary campaign.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:43 AM
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He only teaches there the winter quarter, Wrongshore.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:45 AM
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149: We should try to get the word out in Greece; it will make the feel a lot better

148: Good catch.

147: I went to a Dukakis victory party thrown by the son of a major Dem fundraiser. There were muchos kegs, and we devised a plan to funnel a beer for every state Dukakis won. Since he actually did reasonably well in the Eastern time zone (he even won Florida!), we were all sufficiently anesthetized by the time the race was called for Bush.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:46 AM
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What doesn't Sifu Tweety know?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:46 AM
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How many fingers I'm holding up.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:47 AM
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155: eleven.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:48 AM
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You have me confused with a younger man.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:50 AM
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Mano is feminine, oddly enough.

The word for "hand" is feminine in every gendered language I know of.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 12:38 PM
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And borscht is delicious, thought the bottled Manischewitz version is too sweet.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 12:40 PM
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there's all the delicious breads

German bread ... eh. The only bread I had in Berlin that I enjoyed was Turkish or French.

Armsmasher loses all credibility for describing dill as a spice.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 12:41 PM
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The word for "hand" is feminine in every gendered language I know of.

Its because guys masturbate with their hands, and don't want to seem gay.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 12:43 PM
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And pace 41, mano negra was a really good band. Meth madness to the stoner groove of Manu Chao's later work. I saw them open for Iggy Pop in 1990 in New Brunswick. Great show.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 12:43 PM
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guys masturbate with their hands

Women, conversely,...


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 12:47 PM
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Oh, 41: Manu Chao is pretty good, and so is Spanish anarchy, but 'mano negra' is also slang for 'illegal immigrant' and that's the sense in which I use it.


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 12:48 PM
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Fuck taxidermy, I want to know the untold story of A White Bear and Scott Lemieux

And w-lfs-n, you couldn't find good bread in Berlin? Did you overlook the slot machines in Vegas, too?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 12:48 PM
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OT, but vaguely related to the closed thread below: can we declare presidential anonymity a failed experiment and abolish it? It seemed like a good idea at the time, but it's turned out to be too easy. We've had some really good threads where people have taken conversational risks. Now people are going presidential over stuff that's mildly embarrassing at worst, and we're heading toward making non-presidential disclosure of difficult stuff look exhibitionist.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 12:49 PM
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164: Didn't know that. Where?


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 12:49 PM
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Women, conversely,...

... aren't nearly so touchy about being called gay.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 12:49 PM
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166: I think it's still useful, but is now overused. So we should just mock inappropriate presidential --- merciliessly.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 12:51 PM
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Women, conversely...

Masturbate with toys, which are masculine or neuter in many of those same languages.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 12:54 PM
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161: And have complete control over all gendered languages (yay patriarchy!). I did actually first see this fact noted on a rather dubious website that advanced a similar explanation, but it seems to check out on a descriptive level. I've been taking note of the gender of "hand" whenever I encounter a new language and I have not yet found any exceptions.

It's probably related to the fact that hands come in pairs. There seems to be a general tendency for paired body parts to have feminine gender, which is often associated with plurality.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 12:55 PM
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169: That's where I started, and then I thought no, you really have to either take the risk or keep your mouth shut. One place where it does make sense is when there's a risk of pseud slippage, but that's not what it's getting used for.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 12:55 PM
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165: Nothing thrilling -- Scott's got a most-Mondays hangout at a particular bar, bloggy acquaintances welcome, thing going on. I go occasionally, and AWB goes more often.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 12:56 PM
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166 - While some people overuse the presidential anonymity, I think the solution is still better than the problem, which was that people would disclose information they considered embarrassing while leaving the name field blank or using a name that made them appear to be a lurker and not a regular who just didn't want to associat a comment with their pseud. That made it much harder to have conversational continuity.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 12:59 PM
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I think the solution is still better than the problem, which was that people would disclose information they considered embarrassing while leaving the name field blank or using a name that made them appear to be a lurker and not a regular who just didn't want to associat a comment with their pseud.

Or not disclose it at all. I do think many threads would have been a lot less interesting without the presidential veil.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:01 PM
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There seems to be a general tendency for paired body parts to have feminine gender, which is often associated with plurality.

El testículo? Der Fuß?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:04 PM
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A general tendency. The gender of "hand" is remarkably consistent compared to other paired body parts.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:06 PM
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Maybe. I don't remember as big a problem with one-time-only pseuds as I'm seeing now with unnecessary presidentiality, but maybe I just wasn't paying close enough attention. But if people want to keep it around we ought to at least try soup's fallback position.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:06 PM
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I don't see any problem at all.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:07 PM
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There's still a place for being determined not to use presidential pseudonymity. I've decided I can't think when it would be appropriate for me unless it compromised another known or knowable person, so you won't catch me using my idiosyncratic version of it under any other circumstances.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:08 PM
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They say my problems are unsound.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:08 PM
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I've never eaten at one of his places, but if Rick Bayless' grasp of Mexican cuisine is anything like his grasp of the history and culture, I'll pass.

I know nothing of his commentary on Mexican history and culture, but his restaurants and food court shack have been uniformly tasty when I've visited them. His top-end restaurant, Topolobampo, has an extremely good reputation here in town of being among the top few in taste (even among exceptional competition) for a much lower price. Also, I can't speak to authenticity in Mexican food, but his food almost certainly doesn't resemble normal Mexican food anyway, because what country on earth has normal cuisine costing $40?

tl;dr: it's worth a try if you're in Chi-town.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:09 PM
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Hey teo, while you're at it, you never got around to explaining why a purported Jew took an implicitly Christian pseud.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:10 PM
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Knecht already covered this, but Ben, seriously? No good German bread?

You obviously shoulda been hanging out with me more in Berlin.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:11 PM
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167: It may be an idiom that I've misapprehended. In a more general sense it means the man behind the curtain, or the person responsible for a hidden crime, or the person who does the dirty work. From there it's a short hop to someone who works 'under the table' but maybe it's not a hop that's actually made. I'll have to ask some native speakers.


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:12 PM
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180: I'm not opposed to it on principle, but mostly I wouldn't bother except for something that was a very, very big deal, and if it were that big a deal, I wouldn't trust my writing style not to blow my cover. All my real secrets are going to the grave with me.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:12 PM
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186: So we will never know the truth about those skater boys in Shanghai? Not even in some posthumous memoir?


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:16 PM
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You obviously shoulda been hanging out with me more in Berlin.

He was baiting you, Blume, and you walked right into his snare.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:20 PM
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182: Frontera Grill, the (slightly) cheaper and more downscale incarnation of Topolobampo immediately next door is also very good.


Posted by: NickFranklin | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:25 PM
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Na ja, it's all vorbei now.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:28 PM
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There's still a place for being determined not to use presidential pseudonymity. I've decided I can't think when it would be appropriate for me unless it compromised another known or knowable person, so you won't catch me using my idiosyncratic version of it under any other circumstances.

I would probably feel this way if I knew anybody here personally. That would change things a lot.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:32 PM
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Na ja, it's all vorbei now.

So it was a non-invitational invitation, was it?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:33 PM
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I have certain shameful confessions which I would probably put under a pseudonym if I made them. I'd feel obligated to charge money, however.


Posted by: John Randolph of Roanoke | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:35 PM
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I have to admit, I'm not sure why anyone would mind an occasionally too-broad use of a presidential pseud for anonymity's sake. Why should it matter to me if someone's criteria for online privacy are more strict than my own? The conversational continuity argument doesn't make sense to me, either. Why is it harder to have an occasional conversation without easily identifiable interlocutors than otherwise? I'm honestly confused...

(I do understand LB's desire for consistent and reasonably unique pseuds as a general practice, but that seems like a different issue.)


Posted by: NickFranklin | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:38 PM
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I've never used presidential pseudonymity, but I like that it adds another protective layer around one's real identity when discussing very sensitive things. This is particularly important now that many commenters' real names are known to many other commenters.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:38 PM
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And now that many people have met each other and stuff. Adds a lot of complications.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:40 PM
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To be clear, I'm confused about both 166 & 174.


Posted by: NickFranklin | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:41 PM
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How do people here feel about cannibalism when the deceased died accidentally, is healthful and fresh, is not a relative, friend, acquaintance, and has no family?


Posted by: John Randolph of Roanoke | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:41 PM
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What kind of accident?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:43 PM
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A fall. I need an answer soon.


Posted by: John Randolph of Roanoke | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:44 PM
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194, 195: Because this place is an ongoing conversation and because conversation often works best with some background knowledge of where people are coming from. An anecdote from LB can convey something different than the same anecdote from B would, etc. Make it from "Dolly Madison" and you're moving away from a conversation among (imaginary) friends and toward just another session of people talking past each other on the internets.

I actually feel less strongly about this than I'm probably coming across, but what the hell.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:46 PM
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Was the deceased wearing a wetsuit?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:46 PM
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An anecdote from LB can convey something different than the same anecdote from B would, etc. Make it from "Dolly Madison" and you're moving away from a conversation among (imaginary) friends and toward just another session of people talking past each other on the internets.

Only if you discount the ability to identify people by tone and style.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:48 PM
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I find that I'm most tempted to use presidential anonymity when my comment might be regarded by the Unfogged Consensus as beyond the pale.

My solution? I post all of those comments under my James B. Shearer pseud.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:48 PM
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198: Just please don't tell me you're going to season them with turmeric.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:50 PM
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204 would seem to win the anonymity subthread.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:51 PM
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I need an answer soon.

No need to rush. Faisandage, dude.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:51 PM
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It was a perfectly normal, fresh, healthy orphan with no bad habits. Mmmmm. Orphans.


Posted by: John Randolph of Roanoke | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:51 PM
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203: In which case there's no point to attempting presidential anonymity anyway.

204.1: And that's a category of comments that especially need to be made non-presidentially.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:51 PM
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I am completely in favor of presidentiality. I'm have little to lose and am pretty upfront about my own life, but even I might want to talk about certain topics without dragging my name into it.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:53 PM
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Only if you discount the ability to identify people by tone and style.

Or if anyone posts under "Judah P. Benjamin", we're totally going to know it's you, teo.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:54 PM
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In which case there's no point to attempting presidential anonymity anyway.

There is some value to being identifiable by people who are familiar with the site but not, say, those who are not but can connect regular pseudonyms to real identities through a bit of sleuthing.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:54 PM
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I will address 183 at some point, but I am at lunch right now and need to get back to work.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:55 PM
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I think I should have posted 207 under James B. Shearer.

Anyway, it's time for me to get on the phone and get chewed out by my boss. If I start commenting here much more frequently, it's because I lost my job and have nothing to do. If I cease commenting entirely, it's because I lost my job and fell into a deep depression.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 1:56 PM
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Judah P. Benjamin

A very interesting man.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 2:01 PM
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A second question: does anyone have any good orphan recipes?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 2:01 PM
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NPH - you're right, of course, about opinion comments. That's not what presidential anonymity is for.

But I think that I disagree about your opinion regarding 203. I think one might appropriately seek a level of privacy that corresponds with "Well, if they know me well enough to figure out my identity from my style, then I don't mind sharing this with them."

And I disagree with you about presidential anonymity in general. I think it's proved to be an excellent device that has solved the problem it was intended to solve without undue cost. As teo points out, many of those posts would be lost rather than be posted under the normal pseud.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 2:02 PM
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Don't be hating on JBS.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 2:03 PM
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I mean, me. WTF is Emerson doing anyway?


Posted by: John Randolph of Roanoke | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 2:03 PM
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202 et al: I definitely get that context matters, and that often context helps us decide when it's appropriate to be charitable, etc., but isn't there also a value--as I think ogged was hoping for in the "I Don't Know You" post--in sometimes dropping that context? Sometimes our pseuds can encumber the responses we get to our postings as much as they illuminate them, right?

I do agree that too much idiosyncratic pseud usage would be a problem. Maybe I just haven't been around long enough to see a whole lot of examples of the kind of disjointed everyone-talking-past-everyone-else phenomenon (because of pseud usage, anyway) that others seem to take for granted as a looming issue.


Posted by: NickFranklin | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 2:03 PM
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216: Swift recommended seasoning with a little pepper or salt.


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 2:05 PM
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212, 217.2: OK, I buy that. Re 217.3, I'm still not fully convinced, but maybe I've just noticed more abuses than good uses lately.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 2:07 PM
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I have to admit that I'd never have suspected a presidential pseudonym to disguise John Emerson.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 2:07 PM
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223: Most presidential pseudonyms are used to discuss sex and relationships, which obviously don't apply to Emerson.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 2:09 PM
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Haven't read the thread, but on the topic of the post: I"ll be in NYC and free the evening of the 13th (next Tuesday). If anyone wants to plan a meet-up, drinks are on me. I'll likely be drunk by the time I get there, so I may not be good company at all or I may be great company, depending on your perspective.

I'll be staying at the Hilton at 1335 Aven. of the Americas, so I'd like to stay reasonably within reach of there.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 2:39 PM
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Okay, about my moniker. The short version of its origin story is that I got it from a restaurant. The long version is totally different and more interesting, but I can't really go into it on account of my desire to maintain whatever shreds of pseudonymity I still have. Suffice it to say that the connection to Judaism is there, but extremely tangential.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 2:40 PM
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I would have hung out with Blume more in Berlin if we had actually managed to get in touch before a few days before she left. And the delay in establishing contact is only partly my fault.

Is there non-super-dense German bread?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 2:41 PM
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Actually I guess it was more than a few days before &c. Hèlas. I still maintain that it's not entirely on me, though the Vorbeiheit of it all makes it rather pointless to dally, I suppose.

Don't mind me, I'm just being moody.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 2:51 PM
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Teo's handle is from the Spanish version of

Theophilus Thistle, the thistle sifter, sifted a sieve of unsifted thistles. If Theophilus the thistle sifter sifted a sieve of unsifted thistles, where is the sieve of sifted thistles Theophilus the thistle sifter sifted?

Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 2:55 PM
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'tis all true, what you say. But we shall hang out at unfoggeDCon!

There is German bread that isn't super dense. I particularly recommend the Schusterjungs, a kind of roll made with rye.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 2:59 PM
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225: I have this lousy feeling that that's parent-teacher conference night. If I'm wrong, I'd love to meet up.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 2:59 PM
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I didn't know you were going to be there, Blume. Awesome.

LB, If you start letting Sally and Newt comment soon, you'll have the perfect excuse for holding the meetup at the PT conference.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:02 PM
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Not absoabsolutely sure, but it looks pretty likely.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:05 PM
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231: okay, just let me know. Probably should have made clear that I'll be there and free after about 9:00pm, so that may be after your PT conference anyway.


Posted by: Borck Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:09 PM
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Borck!


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:10 PM
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225: That's "6th Ave" to you, pardner. (I think "Fashion Ave" and "Ave of the Americas" are ploys to make tourists sound dumb. Quite mean, really.)

I will probably be around and up for it!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:11 PM
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236: okay, don't shoot the messanger--that's the address they gave me.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:12 PM
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Following on 237: oh I forgot to say great. I don't know the city well at all so you locals will have to be in charge of plans. Just tell me where to show up.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:14 PM
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That was supposed to be "great!"


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:15 PM
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There are probably worse ideas than meeting in the hotel bar -- it's an easy location to get to, and that way you don't have to get lost. It's not going to be a particularly thrilling bar as bars go, but it should be quiet.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:19 PM
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Is there non-super-dense German bread?

Laugenbroetchen
Rogenmischbrot
Bauernbrot
Leinsamenkernbrot
Bauernweissbrot
Sonnenblumenkernbrot
Siebenkornbrot
Kaesestangen

I could go on and on


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:19 PM
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It's not going to be a particularly thrilling bar as bars go, but it should be quiet.

Not necessarily. That's a convention hotel, and depending on what convention's in town, it can get pretty rowdy (in a drunken businessman kind of way, mind you).

Unfortunately I will be in NYC on Tues but will be on a plane to LA by 9pm, so I will not have the pleasure of drinking on Brock's dime.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:23 PM
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There are probably worse ideas than meeting in the hotel bar

Sounds unlikely to me, but like I said, locals are in charge of the planning.

I'm totally serious when I say I'm probably going to show up drunk (like: drunk), so keep that in mind.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:25 PM
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I heart hotel bars. And no, I didn't mean to give you shit for AotA, but just a warning: don't ask for directions that way or someone will guide you to the Bronx in spite.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:26 PM
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What will you be doing that you'll be drunk, Brock?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:27 PM
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So Brock, what's taking you to NYC and what's happening before 9?


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:27 PM
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Clearly, Brock's law firm is more fun than mine. The last time I got drunk on a firm's money was a post-trial party over three years ago.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:29 PM
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245: Drinking, presumably.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:29 PM
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Or perhaps drinking.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:29 PM
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I'll be at work-related dinner, drinking heavily.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:30 PM
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Pwned by LB on my own plans! Damn, that's disgraceful!


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:31 PM
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ICAC, the boss-chewing-out foreshadowed in 214 was much less severe than I anticipated. Still, it might behoove me to spend a little less time shooting the shit with you lot and a little more time adding value to my employer.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:32 PM
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247: you didn't pop any corks when you got that $500b case dismissed earlier this year? Your firm really is no fun.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:33 PM
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252: Bastards need to get their priorities straight.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:35 PM
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252: man, tell me about it. I attended a 3-hour conference earlier this afternoon on potential liabilities associated with blogging and blog commenting and now I'm sort of terrified.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:35 PM
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255: it didn't sound to me like any of them knew about your commenting.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:36 PM
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The last time I got drunk on a firm's money

LB, there's no art to getting drunk on the firm's money. Any fool associate can do that. The real art is getting drunk and billing it to the client. I had a client last year that had a policy of not reimbursing alcoholic beverages, and made me realize what an important component of job satisfaction those customer-financed benders are to me.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:37 PM
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I'm not sure I understand 255.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:37 PM
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255 s/b 256.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:38 PM
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Any fool associate can do that.

But not LB, apparantly.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:39 PM
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253: There was a hearty round of congratulatory emails, if that helps.

I suppose in theory I'm entitled to get drunk at the holiday party, but it's a hellish seething mass of humanity that I only show up at because they threaten us.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:41 PM
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244: okay, thanks for the tip.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:43 PM
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I suppose in theory I'm entitled to get drunk at the holiday party.

No, that's the worst possible time. You need to be sober and taking notes. And video, if possible.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:45 PM
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I suppose in theory I'm entitled to get drunk at the holiday party, but it's a hellish seething mass of humanity that I only show up at because they threaten us.

Sounds like a normal Christmas celebration to me.

Speaking of Christmas, guess what just came out in time for your loved ones? Sifu, I think you'll want one of these, but, umm, you may want to take on a 2nd job.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:45 PM
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261: This year, just send me as your proxy. I'll show you a hellish seething mass of humanity, alright.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:46 PM
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264: my mommy said I had to give up rapper action figures after I cried when the dog ate Biggie.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:48 PM
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265: That'd be fun to watch. They probably don't actually check photo ID at the door...


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:53 PM
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OT: Other than attending the conference mentioned in 255 and leavinga few choice comments here, I've spent my entire day (since 9:00) trinyg to do my diary entries for the last few weeks (which I'm being harrassed about because they're trying to finalize Oct. bills). And I'm not even done! I feel like ripping out my hair.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:54 PM
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Meetup at LB's firm's Christmas party!


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:54 PM
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Surprise your loved ones


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:55 PM
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268: woo! Bald, drunk Brock gonna be rockin' the Big Apple!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:57 PM
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268: You are my spiritual brother. My diaries are the bane of my existence. (Well, and the fact that I don't bill anything near as much as I should. God, I hate my job. Some guy I vaguely recall from law school just came by on a sales call -- he's dropped out of practice and is now working for a temp legal staffing firm. I bet he doesn't have to do diaries.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:57 PM
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267: Sweet! I promise to sleep with the partner who has the biggest crush on you and let him yell your name as he climaxes.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 3:58 PM
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269 is an excellent idea. LB can provide nametags identifying us as absent colleagues she doesn't like very much.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:00 PM
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273: eew


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:00 PM
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Jesus Christ did I not need that thought cluttering up my head. Not that I have any idea that any of the partners are lusting after me, but they're a motley bunch.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:00 PM
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Diaries?

10/23/07

Today I finished a draft of a memo on (case) for (partner). God I can't stand him. It took four hours, twelve minutes, and thirty-seven seconds and he didn't even respond for an hour after I sent it to him and when he did he just said that he didn't like the font and could I change it. I wish I were working for (other partner) because all his associates say he never does that kind of thing. I spent forty-eight minutes drawing little doodles of him in the margins of (reference work).


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:05 PM
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277, sadly, is the very face of law firm associates today.

You're a mean, rotten, evil man, Ben.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:10 PM
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You're a mean, rotten, evil man, Ben.

Yeah, but he can't bill for it.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:11 PM
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Wait a minute, w-lfs-n is a lawyer? I thought he was a shiftless post-doc or something. A whole mental world comes crashing down.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:15 PM
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Yeah, but he can't bill for it.

Excellent.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:17 PM
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He was a paralegal for a bit a few years ago, but a grad student now. The veneer of anonymity over the thread where he asked if he should accept his professor's invitation to Paris was thin.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:17 PM
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AWB is a dirty girl, and we love her for that. (LB not so much at the moment, but that will pass.)


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:23 PM
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Sexist


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:26 PM
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It's the socks. No one loves me, because I have no long brightly patterned socks.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:27 PM
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Oh, LB, I love you no matter what cheap and unfashionable hosiery you wear.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:29 PM
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Aww, LB, we'd love you in nothing at all.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:29 PM
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You look wonderful LB. So quit asking, OK? We're busy men!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:31 PM
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286: 2.8
287: 6.9
288: 4.6

You can do better, guys.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:33 PM
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No, LB, I was saying that based on 276 you might not love AWB so much at the moment. Everyone loves you. Don't think that we're just trying to make you feel good.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:33 PM
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John brings his A game.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:34 PM
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You can do better, guys.

But we're nice and supportive and feminist and shit.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:35 PM
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The last time I got drunk on a firm's money was a post-trial party over three years ago.

Rest assured that it was the client's money, not ours. But it was a great party.


Posted by: Idealist | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:38 PM
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AWB and I are going to go off somewhere together and discuss sock purchases. Hrmphf.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:38 PM
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I've though of teaching passive aggression at the junior college level.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:39 PM
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AWB and I are going to go off somewhere together and discuss sock purchases.

Ooh, can I join you?


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:40 PM
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293: True fact -- the inhouse lawyers were paying the room-service bill.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 4:40 PM
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294: Apparently, the socks I own are all Roman socks. They simply do not make socks like this in the US. I've never been to Italy, but my toes practically live there.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 6:03 PM
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Same with my candles.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 6:05 PM
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Pneu! Pneu!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 6:07 PM
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Your toes live in your candles, or your candles live in Rome?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 6:09 PM
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They simply do not make socks like my candles in the US.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 6:10 PM
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What, heebie, the ass men weren't enough for you? Now you want Dick Morris too?


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 6:19 PM
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Not that I have any idea that any of the partners are lusting after me

Co-bloggers are partners of a sort, yes?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 6:23 PM
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Hmmm. NPH, you might have to spell that one out for me.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 6:23 PM
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305: google "Dick Morris" "toe-sucking" prostitute


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 6:25 PM
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Must be time for my Metamucil and a new Depends. Thanks, heebie.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 6:28 PM
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S'okay. Want me to tell you about Neil Patrick Harris again?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 6:30 PM
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Just get the bastard of my lawn already, whoever he is.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 6:31 PM
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I claim this lawn in the name of the bastard of Spain!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 6:33 PM
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304: Not that I'm clear on all the details, but I think if you follow that line of thinking up, AWB's agreed to have sex with you.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 6:35 PM
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The last time I got drunk on a firm's money was a post-trial party over three years ago.

I'm drunk on private school money right now.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 6:38 PM
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Doogie Houser is awesome or something.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 6:42 PM
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Ack, my first date with the NYC Mineshaft coming up and I have two zits. I never get zits! How mortifying.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:05 PM
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I have a cold-induced zit on my lip and it makes me look like I have herpes. But I do not have herpes. I have a badly-healing zit. Sigh.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:07 PM
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If you had herpes on your lip it wouldn't mean you have the erotic kind of herpes. Search the archives for "well-known goat molester" for more on this issue.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:08 PM
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315: Cold-induced sounds entirely plausible. I had a cold earlier this week.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:09 PM
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Nobody's worried about herpes for decades, AWB. It's like consumption and neuralgia.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:14 PM
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I am not worried I have herpes. I am worried that I look like I have herpes, or that my lip appears mildly misshapen.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:17 PM
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But you only look like you have oral herpes. Plenty of god-fearing churchmen have that.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:22 PM
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People don't worry about having consumption. They worry that it looks conspicuously like they have it.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:42 PM
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I think I'm developing lumbago.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:45 PM
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Alexander!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:49 PM
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322: All that comes to mind is

Lumbago, Montego baby why don't we go down to Kokomo.

Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:51 PM
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A decent mustard-plaster can do wonders, LB. You can get the ingredients from the same place you get your gripe water.


Posted by: Phthisic Ned | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:51 PM
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I'm planning on developing gout, now that there is a flipping Belgian Waffle Truck in the city.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:52 PM
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295--
"I've though of teaching passive aggression at the junior college level. "

i've thought of developing a system for passive-aggressive solar heating.

stupid sun. it beats down on us all day!


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:53 PM
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I'm planning on developing gout

True goutmands are born, not made.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 7:55 PM
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I am worried that I look like I have herpes, or that my lip appears mildly misshapen.

Heh. Zits suck. Uh, cold sores *are* herpes, no? The various forms of herpes are really common.

And LB, cut it out with the lumbago remarks. I have lumbago, awright? Also really common!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:06 PM
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Yes, cold sores are herpes. To my knowledge, I've never had one, but my mother gets them and it used to freak me out when I was a kid.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:12 PM
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I get them. Not all that often, but a couple of times a winter. There are worse things in life.

(And I had no idea lumbago was still extant. What is it, beyond some kind of ill-defined backpain?)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:14 PM
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It's really charming, actually. Lumbago is just screwed-up lumbar vertebrae: lower back.

It's really common to have degenerating discs in the lower back (lumbar vertebrae 4 and 5: L4, L5), just above, or right around/between, your hip bones. They used to call it lumbago. Something like 40% of people wind up having trouble in that area, and not at particularly decrepit ages, but it's often relatively symptom-free.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:24 PM
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It should be "Lumbargo", obviously!

"Oh, my lumbar are starting to go!"

"O, this cursed Ograbmul!"


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:31 PM
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Next you'll all be telling me you didn't realize that sciatica was still extant.

("Extant"? So cute.)


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:38 PM
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I've had sciatica. One of the many fun pregancy related experiences.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:41 PM
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Some things just sound old-timey. "Bursitis" was probably coined less than a century ago, but it sounds a bit old-timey nonetheless. Especially since my dad started having it as soon as his hair started going grey.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:42 PM
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Idealist was here! and Parsimon is back. And I've been at PT conferences this afternoon and evening. And I don't have to do diaries, but I do have to fill in online timesheets which loose all your carefully entered break ins and break outs with a single wrong stroke, forcing you to start over. And several people on my last project were having their productivity measured and found wanting by statistics on their accounts, like we were doing data entry, which in a way we are.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:46 PM
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"O, this cursed Ograbmul!"

Love it!

"Oh, Ethel, my lumbago, my sciatica!"

"Oh lordy yes, how's your bursitis today, Marguerite? The damp doesn't do us any favors, does it?"

Etc.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 8:57 PM
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268, 272: I feel your pain. I got the "get your shit together" memo (w/r/t time entry) a few weeks ago. I'm making a concerted effort to complete detailed entries as I go. It's like I tell Rory all the time with cleaning her room -- it's alot easier if you just keep on top of it as you go rather than waiting for it to all pile up. Nevertheless, her room (and my room) and my time are a mess.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:03 PM
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338: Bunion


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:06 PM
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339 -- I tell my flock that if their names are going to come up at the monthly associates committee, I'd rather have it be in the context of my fielding compliments for their work, than making excuses for why their time didn't get put into the system. Some actually get it.

The others I just tell it's part of the damn job.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:09 PM
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Bunion

How'd you know I was looking for that term? I don't actually know what bursitis is. Something to do with grey hair, according to Ned.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:13 PM
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Bursitis is inflammation of the bursae, which are sacks of fluid around the joints. I have bursitis in my ankles and one shoulder, thank you very much.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:16 PM
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Just like Kwame!


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:20 PM
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A friend pointed out that old-timey disease make great names for kittens. I don't know if Bursitis fits the bill, but try not to love Dropsy or Rickets.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:20 PM
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Something to do with grey hair.

Corns, anyone? Fallen arches? Swayback?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:21 PM
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Piles the Cat.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:21 PM
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Know yourself out, Wrongshore.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:25 PM
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Knock.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:26 PM
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349: Cool.

But

Sciatica: Rheumatism in the hips

Still, though, cool.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:33 PM
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They've got apoplexy for stroke, but I've seen it referred to - sometimes referenced, even - as "paralysis" or "the paralysis" or "a fit of the paralysis" in letters from the 1860s and 1870s. It's definitely not something to be sanguine about. To eat unhealthy foods is to evidence a want of sagacity that should not be countenanced.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:36 PM
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(not that apoplexy is wrong, mind you, just that "paralysis" isn't listed - maybe it wasn't used at whatever time that list is compiled from)


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:37 PM
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Meanwhile, I originally thought it would be keen to name our cat Deixis. I was overruled.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:37 PM
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I'd guess that 'enterocolitis' hasn't gone completely out of use.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:41 PM
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Wasn't Dropsy a friend of Peter Rickets?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:42 PM
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Actually, there's a lot of diseases on that list where the 'pioneer' name is still commonly used.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:42 PM
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I've had both bursitis and sciatica. I feel like I should be wearing spats.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:50 PM
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I'm one of (at least) two regular commenters who rocked Epstein-Barr virus. I'd love two cats named Epstein and Barr.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:53 PM
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AWB and I have Gilbert's Disease.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:54 PM
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That's true! I forgot about that! I haven't had any symptoms in over a year, I'm pleased to say.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 9:58 PM
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Scrumpox would be a good name for a kitten.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:00 PM
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I have lumbago.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:31 PM
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See? Now who the hell needs presidential pseudonymity with all this frank confession going on?

I'm waiting to hear about swayback any time now. Or at least flat feet.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:35 PM
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I have the vapors.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:39 PM
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My oldest sister had swayback when she was a kid. Then she had three kids and developed sciatica. Just recently, the doctors modernised the diagnosis: herniated disk. Now they're taking her crippling pain seriously!


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:42 PM
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I haven't had any symptoms in over a year, I'm pleased to say.

I've noticed that your Facebook pictures don't show any sign of it.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:46 PM
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Gotta work on that stalker vibe, Teo.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 10:51 PM
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We're friends, you know.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:05 PM
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Now you're my friend? See what I mean?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:07 PM
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That was an exclusive "we."


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:08 PM
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I can still be friends with other people!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:09 PM
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Sure you can, dear. Go right ahead.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:10 PM
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I can still be friends with other people!

Sounds like a wager to me!


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:12 PM
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Comity.

And to bed.

Alone. In the dark.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:12 PM
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Let's see if that goads him into getting a real Facebook account. Apo joined the other day, you know.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 7-07 11:13 PM
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Drat. Parent teacher conferences are on Tuesday. Sorry, Brock.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:32 AM
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How late do they run?


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:38 AM
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Oh, it's over by 7:30, but that leaves me a long haul from Rockefeller Center. It'd be possible, but going back downtown after I've already schlepped up to Inwood isn't happening. Sorry to miss you, though.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:45 AM
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Boo.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 7:54 AM
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You know, on Wednesday I'll be working from a secret undiscloed NYC location that appear to be reasonably close to your office. We could potentially lunch.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:00 AM
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Yay, lunch! Email me if it looks like your schedule will allow it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:01 AM
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Gosh I need to start proofreading. I'll email you.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 8:12 AM
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Hey y'all. Let's say 2pm at Veselka tomorrow? Would we rather do it a little later?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11-10-07 1:35 PM
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So, I can't tell if 236 is still in effect or not. Is AWB meeting me (in the hotel bar?) tonight? Is anyone else going to be there? Plans either need to be finalized or officially scrapped relatively soon.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 11:06 AM
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Is AWB meeting me (in the hotel bar?) tonight?

This is the very sort of thing "Married to the Mineshaft" is addressing, I think.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 11:11 AM
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And are we on for lunch tomorrow?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 11:15 AM
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385: yes, in a way you're right. But seriously, meetup or no meetup? I'm getting on a train soon.

386: I thought I was supposed to email you?


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 11:19 AM
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Yeah, I'm just getting into the range where I need to know if I'm blocking time out in the middle of the day or not.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 11:22 AM
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Sadly, I don't think I can make it tonight. Wish I could!


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 11:24 AM
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388: Oh, okay. I guess I misread your earlier comment to imply you wouldn't really know whether you could do lunch until probably day of. Sure, let's do lunch. If you want. I feel compelled to warn you though, [despite/in confirmation of] my online persona, I'm truly an extraordinarily boring human being. (Especially when sober.) Those who've met me can attest. I'll have nothing interesting to say, and will have poor table manners. And it's possible I won't be properly groomed. But if you're really interested, I'm up for it.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 11:28 AM
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Excellent -- email me for time and place, and we can have an extraordinarily dull lunch together.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 11:30 AM
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I'm not sure. I hope I can, but I have a job interview tomorrow and have to prepare my CV and several syllabi. Are other people coming?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 11:31 AM
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392: I don't know. That's what I'm trying to figure out.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 11:33 AM
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Okay, I just ran through my schedule for tonight, and, unfortunately, I think I'm out. I'm working at the Co-op until 6, then I have to do all this CV stuff and do some laundry so I have something decent to wear. Plus, I'm broke (hence the job interview). Shit. I'm sorry, Brock! I would have liked to!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 11:36 AM
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There will be tears in my beer tonight, folks.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 11:39 AM
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Brock, I'm probably not as high on your list of people to meet as AWB is, and having personally met both her and myself I'd agree with that judgment. But my office is two blocks from the hotel you mentioned up thread, and I'd probably be available for a drink tonight.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 11:45 AM
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You don't work for Craven Swine, do you? Or are you just in the same building as they are?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 11:49 AM
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Neither work for them nor same building. I've also told you who I work for repeatedly, though I don't think ever when you were sober.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 11:51 AM
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Touché. Yeah, I know you've told me, but I unfortunately remember it as 'top-tier firm' rather than the specific name, which would include Craven but I hadn't thought that was it. Proper nouns are my downfall; I don't remember them at all.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 11:55 AM
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