Re: The People

1

Standing in line to vote the other night, and listening to the conversations, I'd be hard pressed to disagree.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:19 PM
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One of the people on my immigration forum posted that with the claim that this proves he wasn't American enough to be President. (These guys are usually my barometer for the 28% crazification factor.) About half pointed out that he stood respectfully, about half said he was too liberal, but only a few squawked about HUSSEIN OSAMA.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:22 PM
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Bah to the "reason vs. emotion" dichotomy. We high-falutin' types also have emotional reactions to candidates. It's just that our emotional reactions are predicated on different things. Don't be such a snoot.


Posted by: ack | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:23 PM
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4

The majority of voters have no idea what might be a good reason to vote for one candidate over another except the candidates' personalities, and could not possibly be informed enough to have such an idea. This seems to have been the conventional wisdom forty years ago, but now it's forbidden to say it, unless you're one of those oh-so-outrageous Republican strategists.


Posted by: Junius Ponds | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:24 PM
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5

Why do you [keep making me] hate America, Ogged?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:24 PM
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6

I don't go to sports events much, which means my anthem manners are weak. Are women supposed to take their hats off and hold them over their hearts? I vaguely thought that was for men only, but I also thought that if I left my hat on someone would hit me (it was happening elsewhere around me), so I took it off.


Posted by: baton rouge | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:24 PM
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Bah to the "reason vs. emotion" dichotomy

There was no such dichotomy in the post.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:25 PM
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8

Are women supposed to take their hats off

Pants.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:25 PM
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9

It was implied. As in,

most political messages are aimed at "low information voters" who can be swayed by emotional appeals


Posted by: ack | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:26 PM
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10

6: Baton Rouge is a woman? Damn, all my hypotheses about the identities behind these one-day pseuds are proving wrong!


Posted by: pox | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:27 PM
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11

Most people are idiots. I think that's the whole story.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:27 PM
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12

The proper answer to those questions would be, "What are you? Retarded?"

Unfortunately, proper answers are rarely the best strategy in electoral politics.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:27 PM
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13

9: "or misinformation."


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:28 PM
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14

I don't go to sports events much, which means my anthem manners are weak. Are women supposed to take their hats off and hold them over their hearts? I vaguely thought that was for men only, but I also thought that if I left my hat on someone would hit me (it was happening elsewhere around me), so I took it off.

Whenever I've heard an actual announcement it's been "And now, please stand, and gentlemen, remove your hats, as the First Archiaparchal Choir sings our National Anthem."

Presumably this is because women's hats used to be attached with pins back on the veldt, so they could not be expected to follow these orders while still maintaining a presentable appearance.


Posted by: Junius Ponds | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:30 PM
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13: Except that the specific example being offered is about "emotional appeals," not "misinformation."


Posted by: ack | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:31 PM
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16

Although to be fair, Obama getting asked this stuff is likely akin to how classes get disrupted. There's always some retard who has to ask the stupidest fucking question ever, and most everyone else is mentally begging for God to strike them down, or contemplating the feasibility of beating the questioner to death.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:32 PM
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Presumably this is because women's hats used to be attached with pins back on the veldt, so they could not be expected to follow these orders while still maintaining a presentable appearance.

Zackly. Miss Manners says that nowadays, when women aren't wearing "ladies' hats" but baseball caps, they should remove 'em, same as the boys.


Posted by: ack | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:32 PM
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13: Except that the specific example being offered is about "emotional appeals," not "misinformation."

Both, no? Are you supposed to heart/hand during the anthem? I didn't learn that set of behaviors.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:33 PM
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14: What was the National Anthem back on the veldt?


Posted by: Zing Zang | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:33 PM
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What was the National Anthem back on the veldt?

A hearty blast blown through a mammoth sphincter.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:35 PM
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21

What, we're back to regular names?
I don't take my hat off for God Bless America at ballgames because it's stupid that it's become some kind of second national anthem. I usually stand, but that's only because it's the 7th inning stretch.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:36 PM
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Symbols matter, especially to those who are looking for them. Why anyone who claims that they want to be President of these United States wouldn't place his hand over his heart is beyond me. Appealing to only those who agree with you is no way to win an election.


Posted by: HAL | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:36 PM
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Baton Rouge is a woman?

Seriously?

This is fun, it feels like a layer of care has been stripped away and we're a bit more like our old selves.


Posted by: apc | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:37 PM
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24

I put my hand over my heart for every John Cougar Mellencamp song.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:37 PM
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25

16: Yes! Only sadly, in elections, people are afraid to do what any half-decent teacher would do and, after this has happened a few times and been dealt with "respectfully," just refuse to call on that person.


Posted by: ack | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:40 PM
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26

23: I am mysterious and stealthy.


Posted by: baton rouge | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:40 PM
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27

As sad as it is, I agree with the first two sentences of 22.


Posted by: CER | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:41 PM
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28

Miss Manners says that nowadays, when women aren't wearing "ladies' hats" but baseball caps, they should remove 'em, same as the boys.

Not a problem for me. I always wear a straw bonnet.


Posted by: cfm | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:42 PM
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I am mysterious and stealthy
Surprisingly, also showing a gullible streak.


Posted by: lunk | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:43 PM
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30

26: not mysterious to me, to the questioner.


Posted by: apc | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:44 PM
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31

Are we sure these aren't people that came specifically to spread the rumor and make Obama look bad?


Posted by: xxx | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:44 PM
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32

OT: I just got this email from a student: "I must apologize. I had no idea that anything was plagiarized. You see, a friend of mine wrote the paper for me because I was pressed for time. All I did was submit it!"


Posted by: ink aid | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:45 PM
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33

32: Oh dear. Can you please fail this student?


Posted by: ack | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:47 PM
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34

"I'm so sorry, I put the grade on your record rather than his. If you give me his name, I'll correct that. By the way, do you plan to submit a paper?"


Posted by: baton rouge | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:49 PM
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At what point does everyone pull off their mask and reveal their secret identify?

I'm going to go first, because I need to sign off for a while. If this is premature, just shoot me.

pox = Knecht Ruprecht


Posted by: pox | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:49 PM
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36

Isn't that the sort of thing that you typically get expelled for?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:50 PM
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37

Symbols matter, especially to those who are looking for them. Why anyone who claims that they want to be President of these United States wouldn't place his hand over his heart is beyond me.

I'm rethinking my agreement with this. See, it's so similar to the whole lapel pin nonsense that, upon further reflection, I'm finding myself enraged by it. Seriously, people would rather make inferences about Senator Obama's patriotism from the placement of his hand during the national anthem than, you know, FUCKING LISTENING TO THE FUCKING WORDS THAT COME OUT OF HIS FUCKING MOUTH.

Fucking stupid? I'm becoming more and more convinced.


Posted by: CER | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:50 PM
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38

How embarrassing for you, pox. We're never going to reveal who we are.


Posted by: Booze Not Bombs | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:51 PM
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39

33: isn't delegation an important skill?


Posted by: gwb | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:52 PM
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40

36: HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No.


Posted by: ack | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:54 PM
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41

34's pretty good, but not pointed enough.


Posted by: ack | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:54 PM
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42

pox = Knecht Ruprecht

That, and about four or five others, have been obvious to me (as far as I know), but the rest, I have no idea.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:54 PM
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43

37: Especially since he stood respectfully with his hands folded.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:55 PM
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44

I think 34 is plenty pointed.

Also....lol, Knecht, is your face red! There's 7 more hours of anonymity left in the day! TAlk about a party pooper.


Posted by: Junius Ponds | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:56 PM
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45

I'm pretty sure about 'ack', because no one else uses scare quotes, stars, and 'duh', that much.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:56 PM
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46

32: Oh my dear Lord. How sad.


Posted by: CER | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:56 PM
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47

45: I concur.


Posted by: Zing Zang | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:57 PM
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48

The ones I'm sure of are pox (correct!), Anon A. Moose, baton rouge, ack, cps (of course), and ink aid (um, dude...).


Posted by: stp | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:59 PM
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49

I think 34 is plenty pointed.

That's because you're not as stupid as the student who "didn't plagiarize, I just let my friend write the paper because I was pressed for time." You must consider your audience.

45: And here I thought it was because I managed to piss someone off in the other thread. (By admittedly not being particularly nice, but the person that got pissed off seems rather to have deserved it, from what I can tell.)


Posted by: ack | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 2:59 PM
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50

Yeah, I think ink aid is less anonymous now than he was under his ordinary name.


Posted by: Junius Ponds | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:00 PM
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51

So, ogged, you started this thing with I read something yesterday (not on this blog) that cracked me up, and then I saw who had written it, and realized that I probably wouldn't have laughed if I hadn't been wrong about the author.

So was that a case of the statement solely being funny because of the identity of the author, like it was someone talking about their cock and you assumed it was B but it turned out to be Emerson? Or was it something where you had a prejudice that the actual author is an unfunny person?


Posted by: d7c | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:00 PM
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52

Oh, and apc.


Posted by: stp | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:01 PM
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53

48: I don't know baton rouge. But I'm pretty sure about Junius Ponds. (If you're married, steer clear of him.)


Posted by: Zing Zang | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:01 PM
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54

51 is an interesting question, but shouldn't it be in the original thread that started this? (not the closed one, the one from earlier today)

Because I was just about to start talking about the pseudonyms and then realized that this thread has actual content and I should put that in the meta-thread.


Posted by: Junius Ponds | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:02 PM
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55

Or was it something where you had a prejudice that the actual author is an unfunny person?

I had a prejudice that the supposed author is a funny person.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:02 PM
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56

Which would have made you not laugh? You are a strange and subtle person.


Posted by: baton rouge | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:03 PM
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57

54: It's here now. Deal.


Posted by: d7c | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:05 PM
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58

I laughed because I was favorably disposed to the supposed author, and wondered whether I would have laughed otherwise.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:06 PM
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59

baton rouge, I think ogged is saying he read the comment thinking it was from someone in the set of people ogged thinks is funny, laughed, saw that the author was in the set of people ogged thinks isn't funny, and then changed his answer.


Posted by: d7c | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:07 PM
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ogged is making a good point here.

In high school I somehow became the guy who says funny things, and it got so that I could easily make a completely obvious observation in a deadpan voice and people would laugh. Quite predictable. Sometimes I would watch a non-funny person get lo love from saying a funny thing, and then I would sort of repeat it shortly thereafter, and it would get a huge laugh, at which point I would try to give props to the originator of the funny thing. But I too often took advantage of this phenomenon to steal lines from others.

Humor is very context-dependent. That should be obvious. It was mentioned in the sitcom thread.

This is on point because at one point I started to have scorn for my friends because their response was so predictable and manipulable.


Posted by: Junius Ponds | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:07 PM
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37. I concur about the lapel pin, but the tradition is to place one's hand over one's heart. Fuck with tradition, and you reap the whirlwind. I mean what if Candidate X said "No thank you, I can't kiss your baby" or "No hotdog for me, they're gross!" One can admire his honesty, but would have to write him off as a candidate.


Posted by: HAL | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:07 PM
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58: Which makes sense because, yes, our responses are to some extent conditioned by our expectations.


Posted by: cfm | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:08 PM
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63

58, 59: Got it. I had the situation reversed.


Posted by: baton rouge | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:09 PM
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64

To be honest, I wasn't really that concerned about anonymity. I suppose someone can clean up the "posted by" line if they want to preserve the integrity of this game.

The translation of the Zhuangzi I am using in class renders a characters name as "Master Ink Aid", so I couldn't resist.


Posted by: ink | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:09 PM
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65

Somewhat back on topic, did anyone hear the NPR story this morning about HRC visiting a diner? The owner comped her meal, but apparently no one in her entourage has ever waited tables, because they didn't leave anything for the waitress (who is a single mother earning minimum wage). Don't worry Hil -- your exciting presence is worth more than the tips she would have made from the customers she could have being waiting on. (Yeah, I know, HRC has People to take care of these things. But she should hire People who know how hard it is for most to make a living.)

Far worse than not knowing the price of milk, if you ask me.


Posted by: I bet John Edwards tipped the barber | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:09 PM
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66

Sometimes I would watch a non-funny person get lo love from saying a funny thing, and then I would sort of repeat it shortly thereafter, and it would get a huge laugh, at which point I would try to give props to the originator of the funny thing.

And I fucking hated it when you did that shit to me.


Posted by: d7c | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:10 PM
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67

66, but it wasn't my fault! The masses are asses!


Posted by: Junius Ponds | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:12 PM
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68

65: Hillary should fire one of her People for that, pour encourager les autres.


Posted by: d7c | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:12 PM
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69

65. Better check snopes. I seem to remember the same thing said about Kerry the last time. Doesn't mean it isn't true.


Posted by: HAL | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:13 PM
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67: But you got the laugh off of my line, then pointed me out as the loser who couldn't get a laugh off the very same line. Thanks a lot.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:13 PM
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71

I concur about the lapel pin, but the tradition is to place one's hand over one's heart.

Not true, or at least not strongly true, in places I've lived. More of a some do, some don't sort of thing.


Posted by: sven | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:13 PM
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72

the tradition is to place one's hand over one's heart.

It's stupid that it's important, but this actually is kind of weird. The story sounded as if he literally did not agree as to the tradition. Is there a regional thing? Is the 'hat over the heart' thing only for ball games, and for the anthem at non-sports event you just stand there? What gives?


Posted by: baton rouge | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:15 PM
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73

but the tradition is to place one's hand over one's heart.

People split. Watch for the players. (Unless you think Bill Walton is some kind of American-traditon-hating hippie.)


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:15 PM
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74

Huh. Crossed with, and answered by, 70.


Posted by: baton rouge | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:15 PM
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72, maybe it's because he grew up in one place and other people grew up in other places.


Posted by: Junius Ponds | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:17 PM
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76

I'd rather have people react emotionally to the institutionalization of torture or poor health care policy than to have them reason informationally on the basis of which candidate puts their hand over their heart during the national anthem.

Of course the emotional reactions I'd prefer would be: against torture and for expansion of health care coverage. It's not like reacting emotionally or informationally carries with it only one set of political programs.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:17 PM
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65: Do you mean this NPR story?

Since this story aired, Hillary Clinton's campaign contacted NPR to say that the campaign paid Maid-Rite a bill for $157 the day of Clinton's visit and left $100 in tip money. NPR contacted Maid-Rite manager Brad Crawford, who confirmed that a bill was paid and tip money was left. Crawford, who was not in the restaurant at the time, said that he believes a campaign staffer left the money with one of his employees, but "where Hillary was sitting, there was no tip left." Neither Anita Esterday nor the manager on duty that day were available for comment as of noon Thursday.


Posted by: cfm | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:17 PM
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78

pox = Knecht Ruprecht
That, and about four or five others, have been obvious to me

If it's not too solipsistic of me to ask: why gave me away? Style? Content? I have a pretty good idea, but I would be interested to see if it is confirmed.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:18 PM
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79

68: Fire, and send the waiter a sincere apology and a hundred bucks.


Posted by: ack | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:18 PM
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80

Seeing 77, I hereby take 79 back.


Posted by: ack | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:20 PM
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81

78: If it's interesting, I didn't get you. I had a very weak guess that you were teo, based on I don't remember what, but drifted away from it.


Posted by: baton rouge | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:20 PM
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69: The reporter interviewed the waitress, who mentioned it. It wasn't the point of the interview. (Which was more or less do voters feel like politcians give a damn when they meet them in person.) She could have been lying, I suppose, but she sounded totally credible.


Posted by: IbJEttb | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:22 PM
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83

why gave me away? Style? Content?

Oh, I'm not going to tell you.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:22 PM
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84

I don't take my hat off for God Bless America at ballgames because it's stupid

This is true. This is our response to terrorism? It's a good thing there hasn't been another 9/11, because if there were, we'd be singing America the Beautiful in the middle of the third, and then My Country 'Tis of Thee in the fifth. Eventually the terrorists would turn all our sports into one painfully earnest musical .


Posted by: tla | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:22 PM
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85

For me, this one.


Posted by: lunk | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:23 PM
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86

69: they interviewed the waitress.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:24 PM
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77: Damn liberal media. Always trying to make conservatives look bad.


Posted by: IBJEttb | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:25 PM
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85: Well knock me over with a featherduster. *That* gave me away?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:25 PM
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89

It sounds as if tips handed to the manager don't make it to the waitstaff, which completely bites.


Posted by: baton rouge | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:25 PM
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73. Meh- I think athletes get a pass. Most football players can barely stand still during the anthem. It is funny to watch hockey players, who are either Canadien (Go Habs), Scandanavian or Russian, with a few Yanks for flavor.

I know in scholl we were taught to place our hand over our heart for the pledge. (Hooray fascism!) I don't remember about the anthem. Point is a guy who went to a madrassa for elementary school needs to go the extra mile when dealing in retail politics.


Posted by: HAL | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:27 PM
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91

You aren't the most brazen person, given to not caring what people think.


Posted by: apc | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:27 PM
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92

I submit that the problem with "everyone's anonymous" day is that we aren't really reading each other sans standing prejudices, but are instead trying to guess who each other are, based on standing prejudices.


Posted by: ack | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:28 PM
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93

God Bless America pisses me off so much. Ugh ugh ugh.


Posted by: kwrl | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:31 PM
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94

It sounds as if tips handed to the manager don't make it to the waitstaff, which completely bites.

A waiter/manager I really like and tip well recently revealed that the owner of the place pays him a mediocre salary and makes him hand over the tips. Now I'm not sure what to do next time there. Tip in cash and hope he's skimming, I suppose.


Posted by: sven | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:33 PM
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I know in scholl we were taught to place our hand over our heart for the pledge

I think others may have pointed this out before, but this may merely reflect where you went to school. My sense is that I split between the heart/hand and the crotch guard.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:33 PM
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96

God Bless America is better than the *actual* national athem, though, come on.


Posted by: ack | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:33 PM
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97

Point is a guy who went to a madrassa for elementary school needs to go the extra mile when dealing in retail politics.

As does one who did not, but was accused of that by his electoral opponents, I take it?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:33 PM
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98

God Bless America is better than the *actual* national athem, though, come on.

America the Beautiful is better than all of them.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:34 PM
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94: It's not a bad idea to tip in cash, because then people can underreport to the IRS. WRT this particular situation, though, ask the guy how you can make sure tips go to him, personally--maybe write a check?


Posted by: ack | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:35 PM
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100

No, it's the worst. I loathe it. God Bless your God God Irving Berlin Yankees God God God. Ick.


Posted by: kwrl | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:35 PM
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101

97. Dude, that was a joke.


Posted by: HAL | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:36 PM
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102

I concur with 98!


Posted by: kwrl | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:36 PM
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103

America the Beautiful This Land Is Your Land is better than all of them.


Posted by: IbJEttb | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:36 PM
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104

98: Granted.


Posted by: ack | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:36 PM
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105

Am I the only one here who never knew (or knew as a kid and forgot) that it was tradition to put your hand over your heart during the national anthem?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:37 PM
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106

100: As opposed to a song to the *flag* that's all conditional and shit?


Posted by: ack | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:37 PM
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107

101: apparently Single Blindness makes me humorless.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:37 PM
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108

107. Answer- get blind drunk! Unless you're one of those sad drunks, then nevermind.


Posted by: HAL | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:40 PM
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109

If management kept the 100 dollar tip, that's reprehensible, obviously. However, sometimes tips go into a general fund, to be divided amongst all staff (including, eg, the dishwashers and kitchen staff and other behind-the-scenes workers who otherwise wouldn't get tips).

It's definitely better to tip in cash.


Posted by: cfm | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:40 PM
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110

Apparently I should, like, read these threads before commenting.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:40 PM
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111

105: No.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:41 PM
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112

humorless

Because one never knows how a stranger will take a personal joke, does one.


Posted by: lunk | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:41 PM
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105: I learned that you put your hand over your heart for the pledge but not for the anthem. I mean, some people did it for the anthem, but it wasn't expected. That's what I still observe at ball games & the like.


Posted by: IbJEttb | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:41 PM
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114

This Land Is You Land, sung in Spanish in the Norteño style


Posted by: ink | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:41 PM
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Like TLIYL, but think AtheB is the best. And Ray Charles' recorded version meant a lot to me when I first heard it.


Posted by: apc | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:42 PM
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Your people, sir, is a great beast.


Posted by: alh | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:43 PM
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It suddenly occured to me that the reason none of you remember putting your hand on your heart is because the godless commies took over the schools in 1972. How old are the people who question Obama on this subject? Could this be a generational difference as opposed to regional?


Posted by: HAL | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:44 PM
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That story made me feel all warm and mushy inside. I'm becoming an NPR-targeted goober, I guess. The Led Zep cover was fun too, though I've been on a kick of enjoying covers a lot.


Posted by: lunk | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:44 PM
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Am I the only one here who never knew

Yes, you pinko.


Posted by: jmc | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:45 PM
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I really like the national anthem. I'm also very attached to the symbols; I want to fly a flag on the front porch - there's a flag holder and everything - but I don't because it would bother me not to follow all the protocols and I would feel sincere guilt. That said, y'know what? Hating on a dude for not putting his hand over his heart is totally stupid.

94: Ask point blank. Be honest with him and tell him you assumed tips were going to him and you want to make sure that happens. Ask him how to proceed. He will probably be shy and tell you not to worry about it; at that point, insist. Tell him you're both going to feel pretty stupid when he catches you trying to slip a fiver into his back pocket when he's not looking. Be as blatant as it takes. That kind of shit has got to go.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:46 PM
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And Ray Charles' recorded version meant a lot to me when I first heard it.

I will somewhat sheepishly admit that Al Sharpton's speech to the 2004 convention moved me to tears, when he talked about the (then recently deceased) Ray Charles, "blind from birth," singing America the Beautiful in praise of an America he couldn't see; just as he, Al Sharpton, was in love with a vision of America that had not yet been realized.

I later learned that Ray Charles was not, in fact, blind from birth, and I felt really cheated.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:47 PM
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I really like the national anthem

The part where they put the word "free" on a note so high nobody can reach it?


Posted by: jmc | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:47 PM
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"My Country Tis of Thee" is my favorite.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:49 PM
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He went blind from masturbating too much, right?


Posted by: ink | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:49 PM
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"My Country Tis of Thee" is my favorite.

... because you're secretly a monarchist.


Posted by: jmc | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:49 PM
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The part where they put the word "free" on a note so high nobody can reach it?

Drop down an octave. It's not that hard. Also, that note is hell of fun to play if you're in the trumpet section.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:50 PM
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Drop down an octave.

But it's, you know, the symbolism. Don't you see the symbolism, man?


Posted by: jmc | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:51 PM
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A waiter/manager I really like and tip well recently revealed that the owner of the place pays him a mediocre salary and makes him hand over the tips.

Jesus. Time for a beatdown.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:53 PM
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Also, that note is hell of fun to play if you're in the trumpet section.

Oh no, I lived in fear of this part. We played an arrangement in a key where that note was a high F on the trumpet, and I was always petrified I wouldn't be able to hit it, especially at a football game where your lips were too cold to pucker properly.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:53 PM
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RMP- fly the flag proudly! The only protocol you need to worry about on your front porch is to take the flag down at sunset or to shine a light on it. Don't fly "Old Glory" in the dark, or inclement weather.


Posted by: HAL | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:53 PM
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In some movies from the 30s and early 40s - a couple of Capra movies, if I remember right - people sing "Sweet Land of Liberty" where you'd expect the national anthem today. I'd link to the relevant scene from Meet John Doe, but I can't find it isolated online (no point in linking to the whole movie).

And I'm glad to see I'm not the only non-hand-over-hearter.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:53 PM
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I started to suggest that you perform a sex act instead of singing that note and then, y'know, I felt a little guilty.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:54 PM
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It suddenly occured to me that the reason none of you remember putting your hand on your heart is because the godless commies took over the schools in 1972.

It must be regional, because way back in 1962 we were putting our hands over our hearts for the pledge, but not the anthem.


Posted by: special k | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:54 PM
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130: No light, and I get home after dark between November and March whereas Rah is already gone to work. I dunno. Maybe I can work something out.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:55 PM
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134: just make sure to set it on fire the minute you get home.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:57 PM
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Have Rah take down the flag when he leaves. It's not like you need a color guard or anything.


Posted by: HAL | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:58 PM
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Ask point blank. Be honest with him and tell him you assumed tips were going to him and you want to make sure that happens. Ask him how to proceed. He will probably be shy and tell you not to worry about it; at that point, insist. Tell him you're both going to feel pretty stupid when he catches you trying to slip a fiver into his back pocket when he's not looking. Be as blatant as it takes. That kind of shit has got to go.

Yeah, that's basically the plan, except for the "shy" part, which made me laugh. This is a guy who's way over the top in a sort of stereotypically gay way (although apparently straight).


Posted by: sven | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:59 PM
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What, and you're a flag salesman?


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 3:59 PM
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Optional for the anthem, not for the pledge when I learned it, also in the 60s.


Posted by: apc | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:00 PM
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No, but I do feel strongly that the flag belongs to all of us. I really hated that whiny column from that chick after 9/11.


Posted by: HAL | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:02 PM
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Didn't you learn a different song when you were young, HAL? Dave's not here to ask you to sing it for us, though.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:02 PM
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140: I don't know the column of which you speak, but on the flag belonging to all of us: anony-comity!


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:03 PM
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If it's not too solipsistic of me to ask: why gave me away? Style? Content?

Content, definitely.


Posted by: stp | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:04 PM
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But you definitely, absolutely, must take your hat off for the anthem. And what do you do with your hat? Hold it over your heart. The only non-hand-over-hearters must be non-hat-wearers.


Posted by: jmc | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:04 PM
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If HAL puts his hand over his heart when he sings, he'll fall off his bicycle.


Posted by: jmc | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:05 PM
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Daisy, Daisy give me your answer, do.
I'm ...half ...crazy.... all for... the ... loooove of youuuuuu


Posted by: HAL | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:06 PM
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Kind of on topic since this is the political thread. God I hope this is real.

Jimmy Carter: He will slay your cat


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:06 PM
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147. Good thing it wasn't a swimming rabbit.


Posted by: HAL | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:08 PM
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Putting my hand over my heart during the anthem, *and* standing/hand-over-heart during the pledge, for that matter, feel of a piece with the new thing in Catholic churches of holding hands during the Lord's Prayer. So fucking showoffy and embarrassing. I hate all that shit.


Posted by: ack | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:09 PM
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For the record, the only comments I posted under any alternate pseuds today were 5, 10, and 11.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:12 PM
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Heh. But not in this thread.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:13 PM
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The scene I was talking about starts at about 15:45 in this clip. Watch any more than the song and you'll be watching spoilers.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:19 PM
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Is there a possibility that these people are plants? Or people asking "when did you stop sucking dick" questions?

There's selection bias (is that the right term?) at play here, too. I suspect the loudmouths who like to ask psuedo-questions/give commentary are over-represented in audience speakers. Cards and pencil is a much better system.


Posted by: glk | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:22 PM
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Heyyyyy, and now that I've gone and read that thread, just as well that I posted it here! If you're happy and you know it, clap your hands.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:22 PM
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It seems as if Obama is trying to change what a retail politician has to be. That there are other ways to show loyalty, and approach issues. But it's not working. That national anthem was painful.


Posted by: terpbball | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:24 PM
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OT, but I know this will appeal to some:

DJ Shadow and Cut Chemist are going on tour again! Their February 1st date in Chicago just got announced, so I bet tickets will go on sale for their other venues very soon.

Also, add my vote to the "single blind sucks" pile. Others may have been very good at identifying commenters, but I certainly wasn't, and it was really annoying to suddenly lose all the personalities, background information and relationships that make this place so interesting and pleasant.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:24 PM
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I've been posting all day with my alternate pseuds. I used a few at first, but eventually settled down on one.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:25 PM
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Yeah, you I think I spotted.


Posted by: baton rouge | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:27 PM
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I've only posted in this thread and the single blind thread and only as eb.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:28 PM
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But it's not working.

It's working with a lot of people who show loyalty and approach issues in those other ways. Unfortunately, there are lots more people in this great big who approach politics as professional wrestling.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:28 PM
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I think I recognize Sifu, LB, B, Emerson, Tweety, soup biscuit, and Knecht so far. But it really is surprisingly tough to know who's who.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:29 PM
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Okay, I'm bored with single blind day. I was glaringly obvious, I figure. And Tweety was Beer Nuts.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:30 PM
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155. I don't doubt his sincerity, but in my opinion he does not have that je ne sais quois that would allow him to break with tradition that much. Bill Clinton or Ron Reagan could have done it, had they chosen to.


Posted by: HAL | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:30 PM
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161: You're giving yourself credit for Sifu and Tweety? Bold.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:31 PM
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98 -- AtheB beats them all, hands down. There was a move to make it the anthem, but Baltimore politicians beat it back. Led by then-Mayor Schaefer: "first they steal our Colts, now they want to steal our anthem."

120 -- I fly a flag on appropriate holidays, but not the national flag. I have a Bennington flag, that works fine. I bought a Taunton to fly from time to time, but the red in the field didn't match the red in the canton, so I had to take it back.


Posted by: npi | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:31 PM
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You're giving yourself credit for Sifu and Tweety?

Oh, oops.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:31 PM
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Not that I was trying to fool anyone, but HAL is me. Perhaps you should try "write in the style of" day, like that scene in "Asmodeus".


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:32 PM
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Not that I was trying to fool anyone, but HAL is me

It helped that you left your real email address in the email fied.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:35 PM
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98. True fact, the house wherin the poem was written is a dorm at my high school.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:35 PM
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I was glaringly obvious, I figure.

Yep, so that's two correct so far for me. Tweety as Beer Nuts seems obvious in retrospect, but I didn't get it at the time.


Posted by: stp | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:36 PM
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I was glaringly obvious, I figure.

I figured, too. And then my-guess-of-you made some random comment about...gawd knows, Amish accounting practices or something...and I decided I wasn't so savvy after all.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:37 PM
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it really is surprisingly tough to know who's who.

Only because most people have no personalities.

I thought it was fine. I sort of don't care who's saying what anyway; if it's cool it's cool, if it's dumb it's dumb, if it's funny, it's funny. I'm sure it's true that there are individuals who, because I like them or know them to be touchy or whatever, I will pull punches with, and that I won't do that with anonymous people I have no relationship to, but I mean, the *content* of the convos was basically the same, no?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:37 PM
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162: You were really that obvious? I was looking for medium-length posts of incredibly concise reason, but didn't spot any deadringers. Of course, I did give up on the sex thread around comment 200, because it was getting to the point where I thought anyone who came up behind me at work would think I was reading the most neurotic dirty site ever.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:37 PM
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lunk


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:38 PM
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168 I'm stealthy that way.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:39 PM
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Huh. I was figuring I was obvious on punctuation -- the dash problem, which I cut down on but couldn't eliminate, and the twitchy need to answer everyone's questions as soon as they're asked. I was breaking up long, grammatically non-functional sentences into short ones at the start of the day, but couldn't keep it up. Maybe I hid better than I thought.

Bitch was very obvious, Coconuts, right?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:41 PM
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I'll put up an unmasking thread.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:42 PM
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176: you were very obvious; there was a comment where you had clearly clicked on a link and then read it in a relatively deep, lawyerly way that was pretty identifiable. Bitch was, apparently, not so obvious.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:43 PM
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I was figuring I was obvious on punctuation -- the dash problem, which I cut down on but couldn't eliminate, and the twitchy need to answer everyone's questions as soon as they're asked.

Yeah, this came though clearly. Plus the sheer number of comments.


Posted by: stp | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:44 PM
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Bitch was very obvious, Coconuts, right?

You're the second person that said this. I don't even know who this "coconuts" person is; I didn't notice the name at all. Then again I wasn't trying to guess, b/c I'm lazy like that.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:45 PM
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Bitch was obviously ack; come on, people.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:46 PM
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Plus the sheer number of comments.

I am, in fact, losing my mind at work. You all realize that the way I comment here is a cry for help, right?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:46 PM
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Ok, move it to the new thread, please.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:47 PM
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The only thread I've read in full (or close to) is this one and ack was obviously B just from comment 3.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 4:47 PM
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God Bless America is better than the *actual* national athem, though, come on.

America the Beautiful is better than all of them.

Non! The one true song is "Take Me Out To The Ballpark."


Posted by: Peevish | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 5:11 PM
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My son's been doing My Country 'Tis of Thee/God Save the Queen for his piano lessons and now uses the two sets of words more or less interchangeably, depending on how the mood strikes him.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 5:37 PM
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I didn't stand for the pledge in high school, they said we didn't have to.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 6:15 PM
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I love the national anthem. Mostly because I'm from Maryland and I like being reminded that Baltimore held its own before the British went and burned DC.

However, I seem to rember in my youth that the tradition was for everyone to sing the national anthem at a sporting event. That doesn't happen so much any more. Now, there is a performer who sings it, and everyone else stands around respectfully, some with thier hand over thier hearts.

I liked it much better when everybody used to sing.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 6:42 PM
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Each in his own key, of course.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 6:43 PM
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It's the American way.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 6:52 PM
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It's a big country though, 12 keys aren't enough. The additional ones can get a mite grating.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 6:54 PM
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Yeah, the best part was always the high notes that few people can hit. It makes me feel patriotic just to hear them try.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 6:58 PM
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192: we will rattle the very rafters of this stadium with our patriotic dissonance!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 6:59 PM
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I'm a huge fan of singing crowds, as long as they're large enough to drown out individual voices to people not actually in the crowd.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 10:09 PM
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While y'all are fixing the blog on the other thread, I'll take care of this one with help from Marvin Gaye. If you still hate the Star-Spangled Banner after hearing him sing it, you must genuinely hate America.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11- 8-07 11:18 PM
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Way too late, but members of the US military do not do the hand on heart thing either. If covered they salute. If not, they stand at attention. Those anti-Americans are everywhere!


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 11- 9-07 4:32 PM
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As usual- Family circus has the amswer!

http://www.arcamax.com/familycircus


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11-12-07 9:37 AM
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