Re: Coaches Are Mean

1

Exhibit B: Bill Belichick.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:03 PM
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My high school swim coach made the girls with huge tits but bad form swim backstroke, and then would point and ogle with his teenaged charges.
The swimming posts cause me low-level panic, since I was on swim teams from 3 to 16 (when I exchanged my varsity letter for la vie bohémienne -- seriously, there were berets and long black cigarettes). The smell of chlorine has the same effect.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:05 PM
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Quit bitching or I'll nail your other foot to the ground.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:05 PM
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3 not to 2.

3 just a punchline to "Coach, I don't want to go in circles anymore."


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:06 PM
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Coaches—and the better Sargeants, ime—or I'm told Scandanavian parents, don't praise much but you can calibrate to them.

As long as it's consistent, you can adapt. It's the preson who plays favorites, or who uses wildly inconsistent standards, who messes you up.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:09 PM
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isn't that a seperate issue though? No reason you can't be consistent and offer praise more often.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:11 PM
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You're loving this, aren't you? It's exactly what your sadistic self hoped for.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:12 PM
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Masochistic, you mean?

Anyway, yes, I do love it; it's exactly how I want a coach to be--with the proviso that he he's a nice guy and has a sense of humor. After another goddamn "little better" last night, I said "Come on, that was better!" and he cracked up, because he knows he's doing it.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:17 PM
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God, if that guy had finished his sentence we'd be suffering the effects for months around here. Unfogged really dodged a bullet with this one.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:17 PM
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Wax on, wax off.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:21 PM
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5 is right. And true of most modes of evaluation: strike zones, foul calls, and grading. So long as the arbiter is fair and consistent, people will adapt. Or so the theory goes. The real psychological damage comes from capriciousness. Which is why I try very hard to stay on my lithium throughout the term.


Posted by: anmik | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:22 PM
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I was never so fast as the year our new coach from Korea carried a broomstick and slammed us with it when she thought we lagged. Someone must have told her boss (who ran the university program) because it stopped very abruptly, which was nice.

I've grown out of that. My new trainer thinks that working out shouldn't hurt, which will take a long time to internalize.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:23 PM
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Thus America falls behind globally. You are weak, weak I say.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:28 PM
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it stopped very abruptly

Meanwhile, Charlie gets stronger.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:28 PM
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5 is right. And true of most modes of evaluation: strike zones, foul calls, and grading.

Also true of laws.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:29 PM
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I had a coach praise my breaststroke technique in the context of asking other swimmers how someone small and weak could keep up with and beat people who were bigger and stronger.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:32 PM
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Old school martial arts teachers tend to carry sticks and hit correct students with them. How hard depends on how old school the teacher is and how badly in need of hitting correction the student is (e.g., elderly Japanese teacher + Flippanter = a symphony in the key of whap!).


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:32 PM
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what's the coach teaching you? or trying to teach you? went swimming again last night, still horribly out of shape but a little better. sadly, i have goals, dreams really, of getting up to 10x100 free on 1:30.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:32 PM
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The martial arts whupping stick isn't ancient oriental wisdom. It's just the way you deal with apprentices. Read Mark Twain's "Life on the Mississippi". When he was an apprentice pilot, he goy thumped pretty much every day.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:35 PM
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goy thumped pretty much every day


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:36 PM
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Anyway, yes, I do love it; it's exactly how I want a coach to be--with the proviso that he he's a nice guy and has a sense of humor.

I think most people feel this way. But the "not a dick" is really, really important.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:38 PM
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Goy thumping is a hallowed tradition among Jewish thugs.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:39 PM
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what's the coach teaching you? or trying to teach you?

On the breaststroke, the main flaws at the moment (there are surely others he just hasn't gotten to yet) are a slight head bob on the insweep and going into the glide. There's also a slight pause at the end of the insweep that we're trying to get rid of. He had me swimming breaststroke while holding (trying to hold) a tennis ball between my chin and chest. That was unpleasant.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:40 PM
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i have goals, dreams really, of getting up to 10x100 free on 1:30.

That's heart attack territory for me. I could do maybe 3x100 on the 1:30. I really need to step up the cardio work.

By the way, some of his age group swimmers were finishing up when I arrived and did you know that teenage boys look like He-Man nowadays? Holy crap, some of those kids are fast.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:42 PM
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Goy thumping is a hallowed tradition after Krav Maga practice.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:42 PM
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neat. do you do conditioning work on your own?


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:43 PM
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i have goals, dreams really, of getting up to 10x100 free on 1:30

Golly, me too. Can do about 5x1:45, but I cannot hit 1:30 even once.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:44 PM
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I can do that. We're talking about on a mountain bike, right?


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:45 PM
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Underwater biking: the latest craze.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:46 PM
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do you do conditioning work on your own?

I swim every day, but I've been doing mostly slow stroke work, and I do the elliptical most days, but haven't been pushing myself. If I were serious, I would go run.

TJ, do you mean that you can't do 100 in 1:30? Because Jake is doing 100, resting, and starting the next 100, all in 1:30.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:50 PM
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Racists.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:54 PM
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i have goals, dreams really, of getting up to 10x100 free on 1:30.

I could do 10 x 100 (yards) on the 1:40 at the start of the summer, but haven't been in a pool since July. Probably back down to the two minute cycle.

Sigh. 1:20s used to be like a brisk walk. I am soft.


Posted by: Lambent Cactus | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:54 PM
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You can watch a sick workout at USC, where Larsen Jensen and Ous Mellouli start with 2x300 @ 3:30, and finish with 2x300 @ 3:00. But those guys are Olympians.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:55 PM
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Have you guys tried marijuana? I've heard that it takes off a second a lap.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:56 PM
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start with 2x300 @ 3:30, and finish with 2x300 @ 3:00

People are crazy.


Posted by: Lambent Cactus | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 4:59 PM
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34: Is that what all the cool kids do? I don't think I should; I mean, I want to get into a good college and not end up in jail after a weed-fueled swimming rampage, John.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 5:16 PM
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It's exactly what your sadistic self hoped for.

Becks, I'm not a big fan of the swimming posts either, but "sadistic" seems a bit extreme.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 5:20 PM
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Yeah, training in a sport where the coach is allowed to hit you, is interesting.

Admittedly, my instructor doesn't go in for that. But she will happily tell beginners who are training with me that they can 'hit him harder, he can take it'.

25 is funny.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 5:33 PM
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Sigh. 1:20s used to be like a brisk walk. I am soft.

Nothing worse than realizing that you have become the old guy at rec swim who goes on about how fast he used to be.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 5:35 PM
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Your coach isn't doing his or her job if you dont hate him a little.

Good for you Ogged. You are going to be glad that you are training with other people. DC Unfogged is your motivation right?

Have I mentioned that we are having weekly weigh-ins at my office? I hadnt realized how fat I was.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 5:45 PM
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I'm not actually training with anyone else, Will. One on one with the coach. It's just that some of his ridiculously fast age-group swimmers (and he's coached some kids who've gone on to the Olympics, so we're talking very fast kids) were still there when I was swimming last night. Jesus.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 5:47 PM
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Is this KO'B?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 5:49 PM
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Nope. I can tell you more about it if you email me.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 5:50 PM
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Email me. I'm interested.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 5:53 PM
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Done.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 5:59 PM
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no, weed makes you mellow but really fast.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 6:05 PM
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Ogged: yes.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 6:07 PM
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I foresaw the confusion my reply would generate, but instead of correcting it, I went swimming.

There's a Krav Maga training center here in LA. I really want to try a class, but their hours make it impossible for me, last I checked.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 6:13 PM
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Yeah, training in a sport where the coach is allowed to hit you, is interesting. Admittedly, my instructor doesn't go in for that.

Yeah my instructor will give you a quick thump in the chest if you drop your guard, but no beating with broomsticks.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 6:30 PM
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Nothing worse than realizing that you have become the old guy at rec swim who goes on about how fast he used to be is faster than you.


Posted by: Lambent Cactus | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 6:34 PM
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no beating with broomsticks.

that's more a curling thing.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 6:36 PM
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I was young for my class, and consequently very small for junior high sports. My football coach, who was a high school classmate of my father's, earnestly suggested to my father that he should hold me back in school for a year if I ever wanted to be anything in football. In the context of where I grew up, this was considered perfectly sound advice, though my father, god bless him, laughed it off.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 6:46 PM
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As long as it's consistent, you can adapt, is true. I've worked with two people who had unconscious code for "that's dreadful". One said "very good indeed" (the 'indeed' was the kicker). The other one said "It's coming along a treat" which meant "I'm going to have to kill you soon, it's so bad."


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 8:48 PM
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On posting, 53 may be a Canadian problem.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 8:49 PM
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What could have possibly followed the coach's original comment, "The stroke itself is fine..."?

But what? But you're ugly? But your swimsuit is too tight? If the stroke is fine, what else is there?


Posted by: Gaijin Biker | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 9:32 PM
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If the stroke is fine, what else is there?

Well, grasshopper, in this instance, he was talking about how many strokes it takes in breaststroke after pushing off from the wall to settle in to a comfortable cadence. He said that usually people's first stroke is a bit quick and short before they settle in, but that I was taking two or three too-quick strokes before settling in.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 10:12 PM
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Is this some kind of whiny Northern California I-want-my-affirmation post?


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 10:24 PM
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This is the daily affirmation blog, is it not?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 10:27 PM
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Keep at it ogged. If you keep working hard for months, you two might be average.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 10:30 PM
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If ogged keeps working, he and slol might be average?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 10:31 PM
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This is the daily affirmation blog, is it not?

Bah. I'm now where it's dark and cold and one is entitled to reject affirmation. Fie on your warm California breezes, on your sunbathing in mid-November, fie on your self-worth and yearning for appreciation. And your year-round outdoor swimming. Fie!


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 10:34 PM
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If ogged keeps working, he and slol might be average?

This implies that I do not work at my swimming. It is an implication I take amiss.

In other words, I'm-a come down there and whup on you, Ben.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 10:35 PM
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I'm just glossing 59, pal.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11-13-07 10:37 PM
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re: 49

Oh mine will quite happily kick me in the head, with shoes on, if I drop my guard. In the context of sparring or drills I'd expect to get thumped moderately hard if I did something stupid.

But no hitting outside the context of sparring, unlike old-school karate types of yore. No 'instructor as venerated boss' mentality, either. She's also very kind to people who are, basically, crap at it.

re: 48

I hear mixed things about Krav, I think how good it is depends a lot on where you go. Like anything I suppose.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 12:23 AM
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Perhaps I'm dreaming, but I'd imagine a national training center would be pretty good, Matt. As far as these things go.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 12:26 AM
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re: 65

Sure, I have no idea specifically where the national training centre is, do I? There are also several different rival umbrella organizations or federations, afaik.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 12:33 AM
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The mixed things I've heard, incidentally, tend to be about the relative commercialization of particular schools, rather than anything specifically poor about the teaching.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 12:35 AM
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The last time I trained was in a academic context. I was a poor student, which my instructor took as license. I'd be in the middle of a thirty set of push ups, and he'd kick me in the ribs. He'd justify this in terms of my grades. He was right, of course, but that didn't stop the administration firing him for sleeping with a sixteen year old student, In his defense, she did advertise her availability, and was very attractive. If I were a HS teacher, I'd have problems not having sex with her.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 12:39 AM
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re: 68

Yeah, I took some karate when I was an undergraduate that was a little like that. The instructor was a lovely guy, and a really gentle, mellow man outside of the class, but there was still a bit of an old-school mentality there that meant things went on that my (now) fat, 30-something ass would just not want to put up with.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 12:45 AM
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If I were a HS teacher, I'd have problems not having sex with her.

Honestly, it's really not that hard to not have sex with someone you're not supposed to have sex with.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 12:58 AM
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Bill Clinton's coach should have just hit him every time he fooled around with an intern.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 12:59 AM
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Honestly, it's really not that hard to not have sex with someone you're not supposed to have sex with.

This is a neat puzzle: when you're in the same room as apo, are you supposed, or just compelled, to have sex with him?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 1:03 AM
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Honestly, it's really not that hard to not have sex with someone you're not supposed to have sex with.

It's easy to say this, but have you tried the temperance kata?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 1:17 AM
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Sometimes a cigar should just be a cigar.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 1:25 AM
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70 is,of course, correct. However, he was a hell of a good teacher. The weird thing is that my previous sensei was also brought up on similar charges. He was third generation (he studied under O-Sensei's son) but apparently he molested somebody or something. I was young at the time, but I remember him throwing my mom.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 1:29 AM
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The weird thing is that my previous sensei was also brought up on similar charges.

I think the dynamic of those sorts of classes can encourage that. I've heard similar stories. You also hear similar stories from gymnastics, tennis, swimming, etc.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 3:21 AM
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There are also several different rival umbrella organizations or federations, afaik

it pays to remember that a martial arts organisation is, economically, an insurance brokerage.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 4:30 AM
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There was a really great music teacher at the Portland HS I worked at in 1980 who was fired for messing around with a student whose father was a member of the Portland school board. I call that going out in style.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 4:33 AM
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re: 77

Heh, yeah, good point. The organisation I am a member of are missing a trick on that one. Our annual insurance is about 75% of what I paid 15 years ago when I was doing karate.

The other big income stream is gradings, with some organisations taking the 'you are now on step 5 of our 23 step ladder, please pay us 100 pounds to progress' approach.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 4:47 AM
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I used to fence competitively, and making a mistake during a lesson meant getting hit with a sword. On the other hand, masks and Kevlar jackets, so it wasn't quite so much the pain as the humiliation.

Also, before each tournament your mask gets tested by someone basically trying to drive an awl between the wires. Because while fencing accidents are rare, they tend to be very bad indeed.


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 5:17 AM
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Also true of laws.

How true. As long as the administration is consistently waterboarding the same people, we'll all get used to it.


Posted by: spaz | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 5:45 AM
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With all the side mt. bike mentions on threads, we could probably put together an adventure racing team before you sad swimmers get through a single relay. Time to add a poster who bikes. Or bring back Bob.


Posted by: spaz | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 5:47 AM
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re: 80

Yeah, I've fenced competitively, too. I fenced for the university, but only at a novice level. It was really good fun, though.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 5:50 AM
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I think that the world would be a better place if the martial arts were more lethal. When each tournament finally came to its bloody end, someone could just shoot the sole survivor.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 6:02 AM
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When each tournament finally came to its bloody end...

You mean Bruce Lee movies aren't represent of what actually happens in martial arts' competitions? I'm handing back my pyjamas.


Posted by: W. Breeze | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 6:14 AM
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When each tournament finally came to its bloody end, someone could just shoot the sole survivor.

It's probably only a matter of time. And when the day comes, you can bet your life savings that the television coverage will be carried on Fox.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 7:38 AM
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Once in HS football camp, August, our Belichick/Woody-Hayes-type coach stopped practice and had us take off our helmets because it was "pretty unbearably hot" (actual phrase, etched in my memory). My buddies and I thought he was a total girly-man for doing so. We were the essence of callow.


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 9:11 AM
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side mt. bike mentions

I have a relatively nice mountain bike. However, the bike outmatches my skills. I am slightly embarrassed to ride it.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 9:53 AM
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I think that the world would be a better place if the martial arts were more lethal.

They are. We call them "wars".


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 10:16 AM
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87: This suggests gobal warming may eventually add a useful evolutionary function to high school football.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 10:26 AM
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Hmm, didn't mean my 65 to be as snippy as it came out.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 10:45 AM
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84: this was the attraction of the original UFC; they marketed it as if there was a decent chance that someone would die. I never understood why[1] they now keep going around saying "actually it's much safer than boxing and blah de blah". It's like the organisers of Miss World putting in their promotional material "actually these are all fairly ordinary looking women who don't give a fuck about world peace".

[1]blah blah very nearly banned in Nevada fah fah fah.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 10:49 AM
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That's just the difference between a new sport trying to get attention, and an established sport trying to go mainstream.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 10:50 AM
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92: oh pshaw. They marketed as the chance to finally settle all those "my martial art can kick your martial art's ass!" debates, with all the implications that "no rules" entails. The reason it almost got banned had nearly as much to do with the current owners making a power play against the former owners, so that they could buy the thing, as it did any percieved brutality.

On the other hand, the first UFC did feature a guy getting punched in the nads thirty-seven times in a row, so there's that.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 10:52 AM
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87: at least in Oregon, now, each HS fall sports team has to keep record of the heat index during practice. If it gets too high, they're required to call (outdoor and un-air-conditioned) practice off.

Some pussy probably died.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 10:53 AM
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94.2: goaahahhhh!


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 10:54 AM
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I seem to remember that the video advert claimed that "you can win by knockout, submission or death!"

... yes I'm not suffering false memory syndrome. Although apparently it was Denver that it happened in, all these Yank places are the same to me. Other gems:

Campbell McLaren, who Meyrowitz put in charge of marketing the project, in no way believed this was the ground floor of a new sport. In fact, he told people, "The last thing we want is for this to be a sport."

The first show was booked for McNichols Arena in Denver and the secret local promoter of the event was Zane Bresloff, who had to keep his name quiet for fear his regular bosses, the folks at the World Wrestling Federation, would find out about his involvement.

It was billed as anything-goes fighting, to the finish, banned in 49 states (it was actually not banned anywhere - that would come later). On the first show, there were no gloves worn, and everything was legal except biting, attacking the eyes and attacking the groin.

The second show saw the rules modified somewhat: You could attack the groin.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 11:35 AM
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I swear I remember groin punches in UFC 1.

I also remember the two kickboxers with ponytails who mutually agreed on "no hair pulling."

Man up, guys!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 11:42 AM
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Having seen anything goes fights, I can't see how it would make good television.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 12:00 PM
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What about groin-hair pulling?


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-14-07 12:00 PM
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