Re: I'm Looking At You

1

Real world?


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:09 AM
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I can quit anythime I want. As proof, I can point to at least ten times I quit unfogged. What?

Seriously though, if one's job is sitting in front of a monitor all day, a post or two isn't exactly interfering with one's productivity. If one is supposed to be out selling widgets to passersby, and one is home on the intertubes, well then we have a problem.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:10 AM
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No kidding. This has been particularly bad for me lately because I don't have much else going on in my life, but I think it would be a problem regardless. I've seriously considered canceling my home internet connection to cut back.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:10 AM
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if one's job is sitting in front of a monitor all day, a post or two isn't exactly interfering with one's productivity.

This is true. Given the nature of my job, spending most of my time at work reading Unfogged isn't really a problem. I'm more concerned about the fact that it eats up most of my free time too.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:12 AM
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"Therapeutic workshops on pottery and drumming"? Oh Ogged. This is where your "jeans and black button-down shirt" lifestyle inevitably leads.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:12 AM
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I'm fine if I'm actually away from it, like on vacation or somehow not near a computer. But at home is the worst, because I should be grading papers or doing laundry and I get caught up in stuff online. If I could read somewhere away from my computer, like at a cafe or something, I'd be a better-read person.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:14 AM
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If I could read somewhere away from my computer, television, telephone, Blackberry, etc., etc., I'd be a better person.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:16 AM
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I installed Ubuntu Saturday just so that I can put sites like this on LeechBlock and not have IE there to tempt me.


Posted by: Michael Vanderwheel, B.A. | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:17 AM
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6--

rediscovering print is a side-benefit. some days i lie in bed with a book or magazine. just as much reading, with less hang-over afterwards. takes me back to those halcyon days before the mac, or before the dec pdp 20, or whatever the hell i started with. back when we used to read stuff on paper.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:18 AM
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If were a better person, I'd be a better person.

And yeah, cyber crack is exactly right.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:18 AM
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Ogged never emails me about that. I feel so excluded.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:20 AM
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He's protecting you, Ben. Pure, uncut Ogged is the most potent drug of all.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:24 AM
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(The lowest of low hanging fruit, I know.)


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:25 AM
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There are warnings. The best solution, for me, is swimming threads. Then maybe threads about that hippety hop, or whatever it is you kids listen to.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:25 AM
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Maybe he'll slip me some in DC.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:26 AM
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I'd probably doing worse things if not on the internet.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:27 AM
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If were a better person, I'd be a better person.

I think that's my rough response. It can definitely be a timesink, and I've certainly said said "OK, I've got to stop." I'm not sure I wouldn't migrate to other timesinks in its absence, though.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:27 AM
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6 is so true. I've started going to a laundromat rather than using the laundry room in my apartment complex largely because I have to sit there until the laundry's done instead of running back and forth to my apartment. Much easier to get actual reading done. I've been considering just going to a coffeeshop or something on weekends and sitting there reading for a few hours. I just bought all these great-looking books that I want to read, but as long as the internet is there that's what I choose.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:27 AM
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I'd love to know what happens when these kids grow up and are expected to work for Samsung or LG; do they plan to zap them back into technophilia? Way too Clockwork Orange...


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:29 AM
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I've also begun forcing myself to read a book at those times when commenting is slow here, rather than desperately refreshing the page over and over only to see no new comments.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:29 AM
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Part of my job is a kind of hurry-up-and-wait routine that involves waiting for email and then responding as quickly as possible. This means sitting by the computer until the beep. (Does this make me sound like a test monkey in a psych experiment? It should.) On those occasions, Unfogged is unavoidable.

I have gone on occasional hiatus, but never for long. I sure as hell ain't going on no Iron John moral purity retreat, though. I'm addicted to certain, relatively socially acceptable habits, and this happens to be one.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:29 AM
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And if you're in a coffeeshop, you might meet people!


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:31 AM
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2: Seriously though, if one's job is sitting in front of a monitor all day, a post or two isn't exactly interfering with one's productivity.

This reads like a parody of alcoholism: Seriously though, a drink or two isn't interfering ...


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:32 AM
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I mean, for cryin' out loud, people. I don't even smoke tobacco anymore, and in truth I rarely drink. Don't take away my Unfogged! Who knows but what I might be forced into an uglier habit. Like Obsidian Wings, or Crooked Timber.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:32 AM
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24: Don't even joke.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:33 AM
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I used to allocate a specific time in the day for blog-reading. Lately I've sort exceeded that a bit a lot. I should get back to that.

Also, keeping Internet and personal lives compartmentalized has helped in the past. The era of Facebook has f-ed up that part a bit, too, but I still keep bloggery and personal life pretty much separate.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:34 AM
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And if you're in a coffeeshop, you might meet people!

There's that. I'll be there to read, though, so I'll likely to oblivious to them.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:35 AM
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Mark Twain said, "A man may have no bad habits, and have worse." He also told the joke about the sick man going to the doctor, who told him, "You must give up smoking and drinking or you will never be well."

"But doctor, I don't smoke or drink!"

And so there was no cure for him.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:36 AM
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I've seriously considered canceling my home internet connection to cut back.

I canceled my Intarweb and cable TV services in a fit of pique after suffering a break-in a couple of years back. Entirely unsurprisingly, it was one of the most productive few months of my life. More surprisingly, it was oddly gratifying to be lying around at home, pondering a question, and not being able to immediately discover the answer (or some reasonable approximation thereof).


Posted by: dob | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:41 AM
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28--
didn't he also have the line comparing bad habits to ballast in a ship? (i.e. that in a storm you have something you can throw overboard to save yourself. same punchline as in 28).


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:42 AM
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On the one hand, this place can be a massive distraction from my actual work (I should, at this very moment, be drawing door jambs).

OTOH, when I was a student, I would dick around sociably until 10 pm the night before a deadline, then work all night. Which is more or less what I do now, but here.

My biggest problem is being self-employed, working solo - no one looking over my shoulder, and deadlines that I can shift if need be. Worst thing is when I'm getting serious about a deadline, quit the browser entirely, then need to start it up again for work research - I always peek at blogs when I do so. Grr.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:44 AM
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Yeah, the most productive time of my college career was the couple of months at the end of my senior year when my computer broke. I got so much more done it was amazing. I wrote almost all of my thesis, got the rest of my work done, and did a lot of recreational reading as well.

The time after I moved into my new apartment but before I had the internet set up was good too.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:45 AM
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I'm not sure I wouldn't migrate to other timesinks in its absence, though.

This is my general feeling.

To the various stories about people feeling incredibly productive when they've been cut off from their computer, I've had that experience, more or less, but I'm not sure the effect lasts.

Perhaps we would all be well suited to unplug our computers at home for a couple weeks a year and then plug them back in when the novelty wears off.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:48 AM
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But all this about how productive we have been when temporarily bereft of the internet is not the same as projecting an exponentially more productive version of ourselves, like drawing an ever rising straight line off the page.

We would stall, and stop, and find another time-waster. Believe me, I know; I was a grownup with similar habits for many years before the internet.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:51 AM
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Yeah, before I spent all my time reading blogs I used to spend it reading magazines. This is part of why I'm not actually going to get rid of my home internet connection.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:52 AM
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or what 33 said.

Harnessing the very real burst of productivity we temporarily get by unplugging is a worthwhile endeavor. But it would need to be a kind of on/off rhythm.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:53 AM
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I've thought about this a lot, because I don't like how I interact with the internet, with Unfogged as the prime example. (But before Unfogged there was the Television Without Pity circuit, and before that was View Askew.) First, I agreed with every word that Sherry wrote. I am sure that my mood is always slightly worse after I've been internet bingeing. And still I spend hours, and want to return to it when I've been away.

Proximal cause, specific to Unfogged: I am pretty sure that Unfogged hits a sweet spot, where there is just enough intermittent reinforcement to keep your attention and just enough community to almost meet human needs for contact. (It doesn't though. It feels better than nothing, but if it is all you're getting, it is slow starvation.)

More generally:
I've realized recently how isolated I let my life get, and when I'm home alone every evening, I want to avoid all that emptiness. I was up at a friend's house cooking for a bunch of people a few weeks ago and felt not a single jones for the internet in any form, and I remembered that I need to be in a crew to be happy. Same at my sister's house, although when it is quiet the internet is a default.

Even more generally:
All addictions are a way to avoid being present to your life. This one is a way to live in your mind and not your body or your emotions. As addictions go, it is not hugely damaging. But if you want to end rather than fight the addiction, you have to be good living with yourself.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:54 AM
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When I started taking Unfogged, I was in a better position for it, with a dayjob I needed to hide from for hours in a day. Now that I'm a freelancer, this place is a real financial suck for me: Time spent typing comments is real money to me. Realistically, I probably wouldn't write more if I weren't reading Unfogged, but my workdays surely wouldn't bleed seamlessly into my evenings and nights like they do.

I don't consider it odd that, for example, I've invited a bunch of 47-year-old balding men into my home days before New Year's. And most of them are coming. I don't really even know people outside my family and (art-world) colleagues/acquaintances who would think this is the definition of bizarre, which has to be the opinion that 99-percent of America would hold. The part that concerns me is that I've joined the cult IRL.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:57 AM
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Before I did this I wasted a similar amount of time reading non-interactive websites, so this is an improvement. I never really existed in a world where there wasn't a potentially infinite amount of time-wasting available on the internet. But I often wish I did, because multitasking is not healthy or productive.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 11:59 AM
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Armsmasher, before you leave, Jackmormon and I were wondering whether you were familiar with the artist-poet Henri Michaux. Actually, what I wanted to know was whether he's a figure in the art world nowadays (I know him from literature).


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:02 PM
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Coincidentally, I just lost internet connectivity at home. Molly took the laptop with her when she and the kids went to grandma's.

My immediate reaction, withing minutes of finding myself in an empty house with no internet, was to try to find some way to get the internet working again. I hauled out a broken computer that may not even have the right kind of modem for our current system and tried desperately to reconnect. I failed.

I keep telling myself that I should look forward to some unplugged time at home, but I'm having a hard time doing it. Maybe I'll just stay at the office.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:07 PM
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I know Michaux but have not seen much of his paintings; I've seen one show of his works on paper and I've run across those in other places. I think there was an auction a year or two ago that generated some renewed interest in his stuff. I don't know anything about his biography—I didn't know that he was also a writer.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:12 PM
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It's hard for me to remember what work was like before the internet. I'm pretty sure I wasn't any more productive for the most part, but coming up with ways to procrastinate seems like it must have required a lot more creativity.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:14 PM
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Black and white on paper is mostly what he does, but I've seen some colored stuff. Sounds like he's still present but not a big player.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:16 PM
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It's hard for me to remember what work was like before the internet. I'm pretty sure I wasn't any more productive for the most part, but coming up with ways to procrastinate seems like it must have required a lot more creativity.

Agreed.

I'm quitting you people!!!


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:16 PM
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seems like it must have required a lot more creativity

I used to leave the house sometimes. Nowadays, not so much. Seeing as I've trained the kid to bring me self-heating K-rations, the bedsores are the only real remaining problem.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:17 PM
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By "big player" I meant "big presence". "Still known, but not a big presence".

We regret the error.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:18 PM
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That and the constant ache of loneliness, I mean.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:20 PM
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Dude, before the internet, I procrastinated in awesome ways. Like, I kept a second screen open where I would write short fiction during work hours. Now it is just click, click, click, all day long.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:21 PM
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Gonerill, I've found that if you cut patterns into your skin with a razorblade, the loneliness melts away and you become one again.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:22 PM
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This seems as good a thread as any to note that my wife and I just bought a townhouse in Arlington; not sure yet if we'll be moved in before Unfoggedcon2, but if there are people still looking for a place to crash, let me know and we may be able to make arrangements.

(After all, nothing says human contact like helping a total stranger paint his house!)


Posted by: BDM | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:22 PM
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This one is a way to live in your mind and not ... your emotions.

The internet in general or Unfogged in particular? IMX Unfogged is mostly light on emotion but there are many places and times in my life where the emotions conveyed by the bytes were primary.

As for the body, I'd love to find a way to surf while using the treadmill. I might have to settle for audio books tho'.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:24 PM
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52: When I briefly belonged to the super fancy gym, they had internet and video game treadmills and stationary bikes. I never used them because when I am on the treadmill I am usually engaged in some kind of RainManesque counting activity.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:26 PM
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Gonerill, I've found that if you cut patterns into your skin with a razorblade, the loneliness melts away and you become one again.

I think you are in the wrong room, sir. MySpace is left at the stoplight.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:26 PM
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Overstating the case somewhat, I could say that I swirled out the drain of one of the best jobs I'll ever have in my life by spending hours here when I could be Getting Things Done. That's too harsh; I made a choice to leave, and when I did it, it felt right. It wasn't to Go Read Unfogged All The Time, it was to write scripts and not have an office job. I have started the latter.

But what Megan says about avoiding your life is as true as true gets. In tribute to that perspicacious comment, I'm going to go tend to my life for a few hours. See y'all.

The biggest problem with this site is that it is very good.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:26 PM
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My timesucks before blogs were watching TV and, like Megan, reading Television Without Pity. That seems far more "what do you get out of it" than the internet/blogs. I've met some great people through the internet that have become IRL friends but never had anything awesome happen because I watched an episode of Six Feet Under.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:28 PM
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Here's one physically debilitating effect of Unfogged. I know all of you know it—when it gets to the end of the work day, and you don't have immediate plans to follow, and you end up just sitting there hitting that refresh lever, hoping that some commenter or poster will come along and treat you with a pellet. At times this happens to me in the evening and I fall into this total K-hole—eyes sore from laptop-induced strain, ego bruised from not having anything better to do, spirit shriveled to that of a spambot for not getting up and doing anything else. I seem prey to this when other things in my life are not going well.

But other than that, it's not a bad place. Hello, nice site.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:30 PM
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I should say specifically that I never experienced 57 before Unfogged, just from the Internet alone. It's really not that hard to walk away from Slate.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:32 PM
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Unfogged has damaged my health, lowered my IQ, and decreased my libido. Can anybody here recommend a lawyer?


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:32 PM
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On the scale of Internet addiction, Unfogged I suspect ranks pretty low, given the existence of gaming communities and the fact that nearly everyone here seems to be relatively functional. I feel it's a bit like comparing 'god, I'm so depressed' with actual clinical depression.

I suspect 34 is right. I am more productive on days where I turn the internet off, but I'm not sure I would be more productive consistently.

For me it's a bit of both. Graduate school was profoundly isolating, so this, and other places helped with the complete lack of human contact. On the other hand, it would be like starving to death on a diet of sugar water were it the only human contact I had. Because here's the dirty secret about the Internet: when you leave your blog or game or whatever in which you've invested so much time, no one will care.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:33 PM
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My parents have often worried about my World of Warcraft habit -- not exactly the same as Unfogged, but it's an online thing that takes up a potentially infinite amount of time with some social interaction but only very loosely, so it's the same basic problem -- and occasionally it seems like they have a point. What I always tell them and myself is that if everything else is fine, computer games or blogs are as good a way to spend my free time as anything else.

And everything else is fine, or pretty close. I have a job I like and I'm doing OK here; I have other hobbies as well; sure, I'm always behind and disorganized on personal business, but not so much that a check has ever bounced or anything; my social life is kinda slow, admittedly, but not nonexistent, and if anything I think that causes the online stuff rather than the other way around...

There are at least two problems with that logic. First, that's a pretty big asterisk under the "social life" category. And second, if an alcoholic said "Hey, I've never killed anybody in a car accident, so I don't have a problem," we'd be rightly horrified, and that might or might not be a good parallel to my own reasoning. FWIW.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:33 PM
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Two points I offer without bothering to read the whole thread.

First, I empathize with Armsmasher: when I'm sucked in, I feel like only an insanely funny or interesting comment or post will justify the time already spent, so I keep clicking in some kind of sunk cost madness.

Second, when I'm away for a few days, the whole internet seems bizarre and unappealing. Then I fall into it again, and suddenly it matters about that crazy thing on protein wisdom, etc.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:35 PM
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Unfogged has damaged my health, lowered my IQ, and decreased my libido.

If you read the fine print, you will see that these are the benefits promised from reading unfogged.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:37 PM
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Dear rationalizers,

At least IME, Unfogged (or rather, commenting on blogs in general) is a special kind of procrastination, and even if you're a natural procrastinator, it will be worse for your productivity than other forms. Once you start commenting, you spend time composing your comment, and you hit refresh all the more obsessively to see who may have responded. You start to read threads more carefully (and thus take more time at it) to look for responses. There are times when you can't find it in you to work, and those times, yes, you would have just been procrastinating anyway. But Unfogged will make you continue to procrastinate even after you otherwise would have found the energy to go back to work. Lurking, as I now do, except when I compose comments like this purely as a service to my fellow man, is much less of a drain on my productivity than commenting was.

And like jms, there was a time when I wrote short fiction at work to procrastinate.

Sincerely,
Tia


Posted by: Tia | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:38 PM
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37--
thanks, megan.
that puts it really well.
i think i'm off for the day.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:39 PM
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Megan, why read Television Without Pity if you don't watch TV? Just wondering what the entry-point is, there.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:39 PM
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Cyrus is right, the hardest thing is to judge the truth of "everything is going fine." There is work I'm behind on. (But this has been true ever since I started teaching full time). I don't have many friends outside my immediate family (but this has been true ever since I had kids).

I also worry that I have too many low level addictions. Can I afford both internet addiction and a steady drinking habit?


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:39 PM
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Emerson, have you read Michaux's A Barbarian in Asia? It's [almost] the only book I stole when my ex and I broke up.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:40 PM
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I used to procrastinate via writing fiction too. However, the fiction was terrible, and neither I nor the world is worse off for my having stopped.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:40 PM
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It's really not that hard to walk away from Slate.

Posted by: Armsmasher

A gentlemen with a gift for understatement.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:42 PM
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Ok, with that, me and my grading are going someplace with no internet connection.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:42 PM
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why read Television Without Pity if you don't watch TV?

I don't read novels. I prefer good literary criticism.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:42 PM
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Unfogged has damaged my health, lowered my IQ, and decreased my libido. Can anybody here recommend a lawyer?

Posted by: bob mcmanus

Not understatement, exactly.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:42 PM
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61: I see what you're saying, but this still feels like someone worrying that her friend is anorexic because she skips dinner sometimes, or that her husband is an alcoholic because he has a beer nightly to relax while watching TV. "Managing one's life well" is a higher bar than it might appear. There might be better uses of your free time, sure, but one hardly sees this sort of worry about television or sports or other pastimes.

There was a guy in Korea earlier this year who died because he was so addicted to gaming he forgot to go pee and his kidney shut down.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:42 PM
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First, that's a pretty big asterisk under the "social life" category.

Before the internet, out on the veldt (Sorry, K.R.) under the stars, we could spend endless hours tuning an already perfectly running bike or car, or trying to get Radio Moscow a bit clearer, or having chats with people on the shortwave that sounded very much like any of the idle chatter of net chats.

Megan is right about this: The internet is new, avoiding life isn't.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:43 PM
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why read Television Without Pity if you don't watch TV?

I don't read novels. I prefer good literary criticism.

Hmm. I don't really understand, but okay.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:47 PM
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There was a guy in Korea earlier this year who died because he was so addicted to gaming he forgot to go pee and his kidney shut down.

One would think that, purely as a matter of biological survival, that you'd end up peeing yourself before killing yourself.


Posted by: dob | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:48 PM
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58: It's really not that hard to walk away from Slate.

Long before the internets, a roommate observed me leafing through a People magazine because there was nothing else in the apartment worth a quick read. He remarked that I was an input junkie - and said that the word was carefully chosen, since the stuff I crammed into my head shouldn't be dignified by the use of the word "information".

This seems correct, and unfogged does a great job of feading my input addiction, as other aspects of the internet, or any random magazine, did previously.

I, for one, have found Slate hard to put down, even as the amount of preposterous content increases.

That said, Saletan's article in Slate today filled me full of such loathing that I really am considering never visiting that site again.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:51 PM
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Hmm. I don't really understand, but okay.

See here.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:54 PM
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I was telling some people this weekend about how I've had to have a couple of stern discussions with one of my employees for spending too much time commenting on blogs during the day instead of working. Besides the cognitive dissonance, one of the things that killed me was that he was spending all of his time commenting on sites like Atrios's. It's like having an intervention for someone who is taking really lame drugs. Why would you waste your brain cells huffing paint?


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:55 PM
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That said, Saletan's article in Slate today filled me full of such loathing that I really am considering never visiting that site again.

I just went and looked it up out of curiousity, and holy fuck, that is a horrible article.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:57 PM
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Christ I had rather hoped that "navel gazing meta week" was last week, but apparently it has continued by popular demand.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:59 PM
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Yeah, I waste my brain cells very precisely and effectively on carefully chosen sites.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 12:59 PM
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EVERY WEEK IS A GOOD WEEK FOR NAVEL GAZING


Posted by: sin | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:00 PM
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Feel the neuroses, d^2.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:00 PM
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I haven't read the article and don't intend to, but Rob Farley has a good response to it.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:00 PM
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Well, look who's returned to the turnip truck ("cabbage lorry" as the colonials call it )!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:01 PM
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Each week we take an in-depth look at a different aspect of our collective navel.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:02 PM
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Can I afford both internet addiction and a steady drinking habit?

We have to choose?


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:02 PM
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We have to choose?

I sure hope not.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:04 PM
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The internet is free and cheap beer is cheap. Direct costs for full blown alcoholism would only be about $250 / month. Vodka is cheaper still.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:06 PM
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The internet is free in ND?


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:07 PM
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I swear to God, even before I went over to Slate to check out Saletan's article (which I didn't bother to read), I already knew what topic I'd find.

What I most dislike about Slate is the bargain bin contrarianism. So cheap, so tacky.


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:07 PM
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What I most dislike about Slate

Another thing I dislike about Slate, is that their writers so often feel like they had promise. They take interesting, somewhat surprising people and help them turn out annoying, easy hits. I haven't looked at Saletan's latest yet, but I would put him and the chatterbox guy in this category.


Posted by: spaz | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:10 PM
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OK, $35-50 / month.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:15 PM
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OK, $35-50 / month.

I pay considerably more than this for my home internet connection, which is another reason I've considered getting rid of it. It's very fast, though.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:16 PM
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It's like all addictions: I quit smoking easily by coming down with pneumonia - by the time I was able to breathe again, the urge had passed. A couple of months ago, I spent 11 days in the hospital; the first three days, I was hellishly ill. When I could think again, I didn't miss the intertubes at all. What I hated most was a) daytime TV and b) that the IV was in my left hand, making it impossible to do crossword puzzles. Given that I was feeling fine after a few days, but had to remain for IV infusions a couple of times a day, it would have been easy to sneak away to a nearby internet cafe and log on.

There is a cure!


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:16 PM
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I'm fine if I'm actually away from it, like on vacation or somehow not near a computer. But at home is the worst, because I should be grading papers or doing laundry

This is true for me as well, but it's not unfogged per se; it's the internet. I think the draw is the same "hurry up and wait" thing Slol talks about--there's a sense that there's always something going on, and on some blogs there are people to talk to/keep up with, and one doesn't want to miss out. I don't think it's bad to have an online social life at all, but I do think it becomes a problem when you start feeling like you must be constantly available and connected.

The best solution I've found is to have something to do outside of the house, preferably early in the day so that I leave before getting online "for a couple of hours." Getting out into the sunshine seems to be the important part, but I still have the kind of "must rush and do things and check in with people" feeling about my real-life activities, too.

I'm sure part of this is simply not having a job, but I think part of it is just my personality.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:19 PM
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68:Now ya done it, I am off to study omphalos worship on the internets.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:19 PM
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Christ I had rather hoped that "navel gazing meta week" was last week

I thought last week was "consultant annoyingly trolls the academics" week.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:20 PM
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Megan, why read Television Without Pity if you don't watch TV? Just wondering what the entry-point is, there.

I can't answer for Megan, but: I do own a TV and watch it, but there are a fair number of shows that I used to regularly read the TWoP recaps for, even though I had no interest in watching them. I never had the stomach for the forums there, though.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:20 PM
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you type at the screen and the screen types back

Don't trust anything unless you can see where it keeps its brain.

And if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.


Posted by: rm | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:20 PM
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100: With the right attitude, that can be every week. Sort of an "every day is Christmas" thing.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:26 PM
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In the early days of websites, I was a regular reader of Danny Drennan's absolutely brilliant recaps of 90210, a show I never watched.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:26 PM
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And if you gaze into the abyss navel, the abyss navel gazes also into you.


Posted by: feldspar | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:28 PM
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Long before the internets, a roommate observed me leafing through a People magazine because there was nothing else in the apartment worth a quick read. He remarked that I was an input junkie - and said that the word was carefully chosen, since the stuff I crammed into my head shouldn't be dignified by the use of the word "information".

Couldn't agree more.

That said, Saletan's article in Slate today filled me full of such loathing that I really am considering never visiting that site again.

And this. I've had a couple of those experiences with Slate. Generally, Slate feels like it's aimed right at me as the target reader, and yet it so often achieves ghastliness that I don't read it at all unless someone links there. And then every time someone does, four or five of the sidebar blurbs look interesting, and I start clicking around, and then it gets loathsome again.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:35 PM
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Looking for something productive to do? Maybe you could enter this contest.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:44 PM
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From the link in 107: ""What single aspect of Homeland Security has been most successful, and what single aspect will be most critical to Homeland Security success?"

Gosh, there are so many homeland security successes to choose from!


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:52 PM
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consultant annoyingly trolls the academics

I feel like I read those threads, but I don't really remember this.


Posted by: spaz | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:54 PM
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As digitally-enhanced woolgathering goes, a place like Unfogged is not totally self-absorbed. I find that it does at times provide pointers to interesting avenues to explore (in both digital and meat space), while providing me enough context to judge my likely interest. I've experienced the same via the early '90s alt.folklore.urban and Bérubé's place. This is in contrast to "closed-loop" digital timewasters like Tetris, Jewelbox, Crystal Quest, online boggle, online Age of Empires (a great game played by assholes).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:58 PM
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I think Megan's take is a bit too globally negative. For people who are in a period of social isolation, or just don't have the energy to try to make real life connections for a time, this place can be a very nice refuge. I don't think it necessarily sucks you dry all the time, and now that there's something of an established path from commenting here to making real life connections, it can be downright social.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:58 PM
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"What single aspect of Homeland Security has been most successful, and what single aspect will be most critical to Homeland Security success?"

The single most successful aspect? Hmm, not sure--probably the use of manufactured fear to strip away civil liberties and silence dissent.

The single most critical aspect for success? I'm going to go with not electing Guiliani in 2008.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:58 PM
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Spaz, it was heaps of fun. Like periodontal surgery or something.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 1:59 PM
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Does the Iraq war count as a success for Homeland Security (tm) or the Global War on Terrorism (tm)?


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:00 PM
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I'm not sure the Iraq war counts as a "success" for any purpose, rob.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:01 PM
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As for me personally, I've been obsessively addicting to things for as long as I can remember. Spend 14 hours a day shooting pool in college? Yup. Become so good at a video game that people think you must be cheating? Yup. And looking back, I can see that when I was a kid I was the same way with reading books and playing basketball. Now it's blogs and swimming. Maybe I should trade blogs in for something else, but I don't even kid myself that it wouldn't be the same kind of obsessive "dude, maybe you should step away from that for a minute" thing.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:02 PM
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Slate feels like it's aimed right at me as the target reader, and yet it so often achieves ghastliness

Totally right. And they do have smart people, but it's mostly shtick now. I wonder if it's a deadline pressure thing, or just horrible editors, or what? And Lithwick/Stevens/O'Rourke are still usually very good.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:05 PM
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"What single aspect of Homeland Security has been most successful"

Providing the raw material for this collection.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:06 PM
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111: indeed; I would say unfogged has been a tremendous net gain for my social life so far, at least in some ways, and it's not like I'm a die-hard shut-in or anything (I dabble).


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:07 PM
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I'm exactly like Ogged in 116 and have been my whole life. I can't think of any time in my childhood or adult life when I haven't had something that I did to the point of possible excess. I think some people just have addictive personalities. I recognize this about myself and try to identify what it is that's filling that role in my life and keep it in check.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:07 PM
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You people clued me in to how to fit pants, if nothing else.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:08 PM
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118 is fantastic.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:09 PM
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116 is also correct.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:09 PM
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I thought it was odd that I read TWoP too, but smart and funny writing is always compelling.

Megan's take is a bit too globally negative

Yeah. It depends a lot on what your default is. I think that without the internets, I would default to a more effort-intensive social life with meat people. But if you would default to complete isolation, Unfogged is way, way better.

I've been obsessively addicting to things for as long as I can remember

Copier.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:13 PM
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I should also mention that as timesinks go, unfogged has nothing on irc.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:13 PM
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Totally right. And they do have smart people, but it's mostly shtick now. I wonder if it's a deadline pressure thing, or just horrible editors, or what? And Lithwick/Stevens/O'Rourke are still usually very good.

I comment at a sports site where a lot of freelance and otherwise not-very-famous sportswriters also comment.

They have anecdotes that make the general point that Slate often decides to publish something several weeks after it's been submitted; that one never knows how many revisions will be required before the article finally appears on the website; that they are strangely focused on making everything exactly the same length -- odd for a website; and yes, that if Slate ever sends back a submission with instructions on how to make it Slate-worthy, the instructions generally consist of "make it more contrarian", which for most articles is really a suggestion that the article be retooled to make the exact opposite point that the author wanted to make.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:15 PM
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See, I've always been too lazy to obsessively commit to anything. I'm an inveterate dabbler. The main reason that blogs have sucked me in the way they do is that you can do them while sitting on your ass and multitasking.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:15 PM
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Getting out into the sunshine seems to be the important part

To echo this, I currently have a theory that when I'm sleeping poorly (far too common) it helps if I spend some time each day outside feeling sun and fresh air on my skin.

It's less fun on days like today when it's cloudy, drizzling, and in the low 40s, but it's a good habit to develop.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:19 PM
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I comment at a sports site where a lot of freelance and otherwise not-very-famous sportswriters also comment.

Which site?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:24 PM
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I find it amusing that Ogged has so effectively shamed people with this post that we've had half our usual traffic today.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:25 PM
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well, not "a lot" of sportswriters. I can think of maybe 20 people who are regulars or at least show up to defend their columns when said columns are linked and discussed.

baseballthinkfactory.org


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:26 PM
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indeed; I would say unfogged has been a tremendous net gain for my social life so far

Unfogged has been a tremendous net gain for me to think critically about issues that were on the brink of my news-radar previously.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:28 PM
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I'm much smarter. S-M-R-T.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:29 PM
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Unfogged has been a tremendous net gain for me to think critically about issues that were on the brink of my news-radar previously.

BUT WE WILL NOT REST UNTIL ALL ARE AWARE OF THE NEED FOR CHIMPEACHMENT


Posted by: OPINIONATED GRANDMA | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:30 PM
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Oh yeah? I'm resting right now.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:30 PM
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I find it amusing that Ogged has so effectively shamed people with this post that we've had half our usual traffic today.

Yeah, you should see the short fiction I've written today instead.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:31 PM
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I do the S-M-R-T dance myself.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:32 PM
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baseballthinkfactory.org

You said "sports site," you tease.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:33 PM
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132 is very right for me, or was back when this site used to be more substance (read: cock jokes) and less navel-gazing. I didn't start reading hoping to make friends; I started reading hoping to learn something (and laugh).


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:35 PM
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Ogged, you should trade fucking swimming for something else. We love you! We really love you! But we see you slipping away from us. We see you becoming the seventy-year-old man. It just break our hearts, we can't imagine how your mother feels.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:36 PM
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I hate Heebie when she rests aggressively like that. I've never seen such a hateful rester.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:38 PM
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OTOH,I started reading hoping to find recipes and torment w-lfs-n in a purely maternal sort of way. It has, on the whole, not been disappointing.


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:41 PM
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I started reading hoping to learn something (and laugh).

The feel-good comment of the year!

A fun project for the Unfoggetariat would be to calculate how much this blog is costing the American economy. Everyone who comments (or posts) on the clock could do a rough calculation of how much their employers pay per month to feed the Mineshaft.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:42 PM
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116, 120: You two should really consider getting into drugs.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:44 PM
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Emerson has been drinking Haterade.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:45 PM
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59 may well be the most lucid comment that mcmanus has ever made at this site. (And it's also very funny).


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:49 PM
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Hate is good for the circulation and helps attain normal regularity.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:50 PM
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when you leave your blog or game or whatever in which you've invested so much time, no one will care

This knowledge keeps you commenting. Look! Wrongshore's still around! But this site is more fun than making faces at myself in the mirror, and I like making faces at myself in the mirror.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:51 PM
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This should turn out horrifying. Via Lifehacker.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:52 PM
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This blog is more fun than staring at a bare wall, drinking, and cursing the darkness, though also in many respects very similar.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:55 PM
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Like Ogged and Becks, I've spent my whole life finding stupid things to do to procrastinate, except it used to be crosswords and dumb video games and TV. I don't do any of those things anymore, and have replaced them with a large network of people, most of whom are pretty interesting and ethical and funny.

On a more personal level, it is such a huge relief to have a group of friends to hang out with in NYC who talk about things, ideas, abstracts, etc, and don't spend all their time interrupting one another with non-sequiturs. Seriously, I have maybe four grad-school acquaintances with whom I can have an actual conversation with. Most of them are urgent in their obsession to crowd people out of conversation, and to one-up each other not in a spirit of playfulness, but for pure ego-stroking. Hanging out with Unfogged types (who at least have a good memory for conversations) has meant being able to talk and listen for a few hours at a time with people who remember what one another has said. I know this isn't always how the site itself feels, but I think it does reward a certain kind of thoughtful interlocutor.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:55 PM
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I think that without the internets, I would default to a more effort-intensive social life with meat people. But if you would default to complete isolation, Unfogged is way, way better.

Ah, this explains a lot about Megan's attitude that I found mystifying before. I'm quite sure that my non-internet default would be complete isolation, because that's what my life was like before I began to spend so much time on the internet, so I tend to think of Unfogged (especially) as a step up rather than a step down in terms of social contact. It's true that it's not ultimately a substitute for a real social life, but it's better than nothing. And it has led to some fun real-life experiences with people I've met through it.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:56 PM
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Hate is good for the circulation and helps attain normal regularity.

Hate's just like
a magic penny.
Hold it tight for normal regularity.
Lend it, spend it,
and you'll have such good circulation,
that your cheeks will be flushed.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:56 PM
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146: I wonder how many times this backhanded compliment has been delivered here regarding different mcmanus comments. I say: the Unfogged Consensus is going to wise up eventually and recognize that a modern Jeremiah is among us.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:56 PM
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A fun project for the Unfoggetariat would be to calculate how much this blog is costing the American economy. Everyone who comments (or posts) on the clock could do a rough calculation of how much their employers pay per month to feed the Mineshaft.

I get paid by the month and my hours spent at the office in the Mineshaft are hours not spent relaxing at home, rather than hours not spent doing work. That is to say, I usually spend about 14 hours at the office every day, at least a third of which is wasted on nonsense like this. Not having a computer at home produces this situation.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:57 PM
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I have maybe four grad-school acquaintances with whom I can have an actual conversation with.

This seems like a situation in which it would be very uncomfortable to be in.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:59 PM
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and don't spend all their time interrupting one another with non-sequiturs

I'm sympathetic to the rest of your comment, AWB, but this pretty much seems like the defining trait of the Unfoggetariat.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 2:59 PM
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As a caveat to 151, hanging out with Unfogged types has made me really intolerant of rudeness and thoughtlessness in others. It's one of the reasons I quit dating on Nerve. I might not be meeting dates on the internet anymore, but at least I'm meeting people I actually *like*.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:00 PM
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154: Agreed!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:02 PM
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Heebie is beginning to see the light.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:05 PM
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Testify!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:07 PM
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I am filled with the hate of the Lord! Great God Almighty, I'm being swept away by rapturous waves of hate!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:09 PM
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I'm sympathetic to the rest of your comment, AWB, but this pretty much seems like

I LIKE CHEESEBURGERS!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:12 PM
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Everythings going dark...there's a tunnel...There's a dark, bilious oozy-glow coming from the end...who's that? Why, it's Strom Thurmond, reaching out his hand to me. And there's Pat Robertson!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:12 PM
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151: What do you mean by "ethical"? Not wont to take candy from babies? Not holding political positions divergent from the liberal assumptions? Not violating fiduciary duties recklessly?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:13 PM
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I love baby-candy.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:14 PM
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Heebie, call up your resting-fu and rest more aggressively and hostilely than you ever have before. These are not good haters, they're bad haters.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:15 PM
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162: Comments, I command you to COME OUT!


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:16 PM
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Unless you all comment
I shall die in a ditch,
Poet dead in a ditch.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:16 PM
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165: Ethical meaning having ethics, as opposed to having uniform ethics. I know some people bitch about us all being too similar ideologically, but this place requires a lot less lock-step than any other social set I have.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:16 PM
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151: It's sort of hurtful to have someone say that she hangs out with people ruder than me.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:17 PM
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...but this place requires a lot less lock-step than any other social set I have.

I'm sure everyone here will join me in absolute agreement on this point.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:19 PM
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Ethical meaning having ethics, as opposed to having uniform ethics.

I don't think I understand, and I am being at least 40% less disingenuous than normal. Are uniform ethics not ethics, by virtue of uniformity? Are ethics vitiated by criticism, implicit and otherwise, of people with different ethics?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:19 PM
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Heebie, call up your resting-fu and rest more aggressively and hostilely than you ever have before.

I will. I will hunker down and comment on Unfogged. I will not grade one more linear algebra exam or counsel one more student. Hallowed be thy name.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:20 PM
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It's sort of hurtful to have someone say that she hangs out with people ruder than me.

Emerson is a sensitive soul.


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:21 PM
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Unfogged is neither rude nor an impenetrable stronghold of Mao Zedong Thought? Troubling news. We must double our efforts!


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:21 PM
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The waves of resting are overwhelming the bad haters! Armageddon has been averted -- for the moment.

But Heebie may have to rest again.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:22 PM
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This is one of the silliest conversations we've had yet, Emerson. And that's saying a lot.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:24 PM
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173: No, I just meant that it would be a misunderstanding of what I value here to assume I come here for the comity. I come here because most people here have some idea of the principles they base their decisions on. I don't even care what those principles are; I just think it's neat that most of you have them.

IRL, outside of Unfogged people, I find most people don't have any idea what it would mean to have a set of ethical principles. They tend to think more in terms of their community's norms, and not saying anything too "shocking."


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:24 PM
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This is one of the silliest conversations we've had yet, Emerson.

Emerson in millenarian mode is just like William Blake, but without the poetry.


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:27 PM
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I call him Emillenarian.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:30 PM
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I feel that we are the Brady and Moss of silliness, Heeby.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:34 PM
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IRL, outside of Unfogged people, I find most people don't have any idea what it would mean to have a set of ethical principles.

I think you do your fellow beings a disservice.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:35 PM
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The many years I spent in the Millenary studying Revelation, Esdras, etc. have paid off richly for me. I have more work than I can handle and may have to hire a junior apocalyptician.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:37 PM
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we've had half our usual traffic today

I took a bath. It's hard to comment from the bath. Conversely, commenting does not make me feel cleaner.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:37 PM
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185: I thought you had an iPhone.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:38 PM
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I think you do your fellow beings a disservice.

I think she's being too kind to the commentariat.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:39 PM
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183: I'm not disservicing anyone. If they'd like to say things other than "Ethics? What is this, the eighteenth century? Yuck!" I'm happy to hear it and always open and ready to have a discussion about it.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:40 PM
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I thought you had an iPhone.

Sorry, no. And if I did, would I take it in the bath? No.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:40 PM
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A Millenary is a thousand Naries, whereas a Seminary is half a Nary. Kotsko is a pitiful wretch.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:40 PM
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And if I did, would I take it in the bath? No.

Then you don't deserve an iPhone.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:43 PM
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I feel that we are the Brady and Moss of silliness, Heeby.

I think what you are trying to say is that we are the plaid shirtdresses and saddle shoes and the cigarettes-rolled-in-the-sleeve with the Chuck Taylors of silly.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:44 PM
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The many years I spent in the Millenary studying Revelation

not to mention hats.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:44 PM
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Then you don't deserve an iPhone.

Somehow, this fails to make me feel bad.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:44 PM
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not to mention hats.

Man-milliner.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:46 PM
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I want an iRubberDucky.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:46 PM
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Chuck Taylor really cared. About basketball shoes.

This is getting away from the key hatred theme, though.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:49 PM
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197- If you want to become successful, make a friend. If you want to become real successful, make an enemy.


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 3:56 PM
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I bet an iPhone would be still work if it was sealed in a water-tight (but transparent) bag.

Lately I find that I've been putting off doing procrastinating tasks that I think of to do. I think I probably have a week's worth of backlogged slacking to do.


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:00 PM
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184 When I was back there in seminary Millenary school, there was a person there
Who put forth the proposition, that you can petition the end with hate.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:00 PM
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If they'd like to say things other than "Ethics? What is this, the eighteenth century? Yuck!" I'm happy to hear it and always open and ready to have a discussion about it.

One can't know what it is, or would be, to have ethical principles without wanting to have a discussion with you about them?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:07 PM
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Some people reach for their gun when they hear the word ethics. I'm all too familiar with them. AWB is right on.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:08 PM
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One can't know what it is, or would be, to have ethical principles without wanting to have a discussion with you about them?

I think this is a silly over-simplification of AWB's original point, that "On a more personal level, it is such a huge relief to have a group of friends to hang out with in NYC who talk about things, ideas, abstracts, etc, and don't spend all their time interrupting one another with non-sequiturs-"

HEY WHERE DID APO GO WITH MY CHEESEBURGER?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:10 PM
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You know what I like? Wombats.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:12 PM
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Wombats are fucking adorable. I have a stuffed wombat I bought in Australia. It's the only stuffed animal I own.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:15 PM
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Arioch!


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:15 PM
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Wombat. Wom. Bat. Whoa, mbat.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:15 PM
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Some people reach for their gun when they hear the word ethicsCHEESEBURGER. I'm all too familiar with them.


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:15 PM
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207: Womb@.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:17 PM
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You know what wombats remind me of? Economimesis and its contestation of key Kantian aesthetic categories.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:17 PM
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Wombats make really weird noises.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:18 PM
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A complicated dance, a bite on the rump and ferocious backward kicks are all part of the wombat's lovemaking repertoire, a new study has revealed.

Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:19 PM
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A complicated dance, a bite on the rump and ferocious backward kicks are all part of the wombat's lovemaking repertoire, ladies....


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:20 PM
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Figures of eight!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:21 PM
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212: What, that's not true of everyone?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:22 PM
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210- Anyone up for a conversation on Kantian ethics?


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:23 PM
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Or the aesthetics of wombat rump-mastication and their implications for an oppositional poetics in the post-postmodern era?


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:26 PM
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Wombles?


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:26 PM
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116, 120: I think it's the same for me, though not to such an extreme extent. Before WoW, it was a different game, before that it was a different one, while I had a crappy computer it was blogs, before that it was reading, etc. The funny thing is, I don't get addicted to cigarettes, or only very mildly addicted. I've smoked off and on for the past seven years, and there have been a number of breaks, just because my circle of friends at the time didn't approve or even because I wanted to make sure I still could. I quit one summer when my girlfriend urged me to, combined with smoking so much during a week around another group of friends that I got sick of it, and didn't start again until a stressful time the following spring. I don't think I've ever smoked a pack a week in my life. Three a day is a lot for me.

I know it's still dangerous, I'd better not get strongly addicted, etc., but it's funny that I form psychological addictions more easily than the most vilified one of all.

Re: sports writers - Oh, god yes. Part of my job involves editing the sports page of the local newspaper sometimes, and it always reminds me of the Hunter S. Thompson parody. (Does anybody know what I'm talking about? I've seen it referred to here and there, but I've never been able to find the whole thing online.)


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:51 PM
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Octupus.

That reminds me, I can never remember: is the plural of "forum" "fora"? I don't think it is, but why not?


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:52 PM
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Just because I felt guilty about interrupting all the hilarious non sequiturs with something substantive. Sorry, it won't happen again.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:53 PM
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I think you can have fora or forums. Fora always sounds too pretentious to me, so I say forums, and no doubt there are those who think that makes me sound ill-educated.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 4:55 PM
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Interesting that you should say that, Cyrus -- I've got an addictive personality too (no WoW, though) and I'm also bizarrely incapable of becoming addicted to tobacco. I've seen old friends who had the same smoking regimen as me one time, who're now completely incapable of quitting, while I've never quit smoking, since I can just, y'know, stop.

I feel that it's because I don't enjoy it as much as them somehow. Is that your experience too?


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:00 PM
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"Fora" is correct, but always seems a little "More asparagae, Pater?" to me.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:06 PM
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I'm also bizarrely incapable of becoming addicted to tobacco. . . . while I've never quit smoking, since I can just, y'know, stop.

Yeah, I used to say this too. And probably most of your friends who used to smoke casually did, too.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:06 PM
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asilon, contr-word!
what i'd whisper when i'll recognise Sifu Tweety's then will-become beard or ogged's jeans?


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:07 PM
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asparagae

ITYM "asparagodes".


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:08 PM
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I'm another occasional smoker. There's considerable variation between individuals in how nicotine is metablolized, with hints that some variants lead to stronger addiction. No word on internet addiction, yet.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:08 PM
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227: Gosh, I wish I'd put that in quotes so people wouldn't think it was me talking...

(Though I do call my father "Pater" occasionally.)


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:11 PM
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Fora always sounds too pretentious to me, so I say forums, and no doubt there are those who think that makes me sound ill-educated.

I heard myself say "lacunae" the other day, and winced. I believe the listener in the room winced as well.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:19 PM
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230: was the listener in the room yourself, and was the failure to identify your own presence a sign of early-onset dementia? Because, whoah, boss irony!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:21 PM
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Asparagon! Fetch your steed! The armies of Hollandasia approach!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:22 PM
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Main Entry:
fo·rum
Pronunciation:
\ˈfȯr-əm\
Function:
noun
Inflected Form(s):
plural forums also fo·ra
(Merriam Webster.)

I feel for you, parsimon!

"what i'd whisper when i'll recognise Sifu Tweety's then will-become beard or ogged's jeans?"

read, if you say something like that, I'll know it's you instantly.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:22 PM
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I'm using Unfogged to procrastinate writing my own fucking blog. How's that for irony? It's taken me over half an hour to write about 5 (short) paragraphs because I keep coming here.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:24 PM
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230: That's odd. I say "lacunae" all the time, and people love it.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:25 PM
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234: I have raised that particular form of procrastination to an art form, if by "raised" you mean "backed lazily into" and by "an art form" you mean "completely fail to post on my own blog".


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:28 PM
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231, 235: The listener in the room was an educated man, but not an academic; not an academic environment. "Lacunae" could easily have been covered by some other word, but I went for that unthinkingly.

"Wince" is maybe too strong: how 'bout a smirk: Whoa! Dude! Listen to you! (A little like using "fora," in other words.)


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:35 PM
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If I wasn't wasting so much time at Unfogged, I'd be posting at my own site looking at more porn reading more. It's tragic.


Posted by: JL | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:39 PM
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Is there ever a reason to say "lacuna", let along "lacunæ"? As far as I can tell, it means "gap, but in a context of the printed word or a body of knowledge". So if it's already clear that that is the context, you can say "gap".


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:40 PM
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What's this about eMilliner? I thought that went bankrupt in 2001 without ever delivering a single bespoke hat.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:42 PM
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OK, I commented before I read the linked article. Now I read it, and I see that my 61 was misguided, like Cala said in 74, and my parents are really worrying over nothing.

It has become a national issue here in recent years, as users started dropping dead from exhaustion after playing online games for days on end. A growing number of students have skipped school to stay online, shockingly self-destructive behavior in this intensely competitive society.

I've sometimes come in five or 10 minutes late for work (or for class, back when I was in school) because of games, but I've never missed something completely for them. I've sometimes stayed up later than usual due to WoW, but we're talking one or two hours less sleep, not no sleep at all. I've been half an hour over deadline on articles due to Unfogged and similar blogs, but deadlines at my job are pretty flexible anyway; I've never missed something entirely because of procrastination. Online addiction is once again a smaller concern than cigarettes or grammar nitpicking.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:44 PM
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For a couple of years I procrastinated by looking up and reading academic articles that interested me but that were tangentially related to my own coursework or research. Before that I watched and read about a lot of sports. After that period, when I began my turn away from grad school, I got into blogs.

I find it fairly easy to cut back on my bad habits when I have a project to work on that I see some value in or that has some prospect of getting done sooner or later. Or if the deadlines are finally too close. It can take me a long time to start writing something, but once I start I don't like to interrupt myself. Reading, unfortunately, doesn't concentrate me in the same way.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:47 PM
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Even now, three new books, purchased today, sit unread by the couch, while I sit here at the computer, madly clicking refresh, hoping for a new cock joke to provide that thrill that I need. Damn you, Demon Unfogged--you've robbed me of my life.


Posted by: JL | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:49 PM
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239: it comes up a lot in neuroscience. Easier than saying "your brain has holes," or at least more accurately descriptive.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:50 PM
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237: In Spanish the students we call "auditors", who attend lectures but don't write papers, take tests or get grades, are called "listeners" (i.e., by the same Spanish word used to designate people who listen). Antonio Machado wrote a funny thing where the teacher talks about how delighted he as to be confident that at least one student is listening.

He also wrote a hilarious thing about a parent-teacher conference.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:52 PM
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I invented a toy called the "lacunadoodle;" it's a piece of paper and an eraser.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:54 PM
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Easier than saying "your brain has holes"

"Cheesebrain" is no longer used because of Swiss huffiness and claims of victimization.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:56 PM
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243: ...and the bartender said, "Take that out of your mouth! I was talking to the duck!"

"Lacuna" is a word you use when you are fabulously sophisticated and glamorous. parsimon may have gotten a bit of a double-take because she failed to deliver it with the requisite devil-may-care charm.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:57 PM
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I used to sunbathe at Lacuna Beach but then it washed away.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:58 PM
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247: what do the Swiss huff, and should I feel bad mocking their brain damage, then?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 5:58 PM
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248: "Lacuna! Fetch my ennui and meet me amidst the atria!"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 6:00 PM
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"Lacuna" is a word you use when you are fabulously sophisticated and glamorous. parsimon may have gotten a bit of a double-take because she failed to deliver it with the requisite devil-may-care charm.

Sir, as Ned notes in 239, I did not say "lacuna" but "lacunae." It compounds the error of using exactly the right word in a non-glamorous situation.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 6:06 PM
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Sifu, we regret to inform you that you've already huffed all the good shit. If you're a completist, you might try exhaust fumes. You just run along behind a tractor exhaust until you can't run any more.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 6:08 PM
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I'm here to kick ass and huff Scotch-Gard, and I'm all outta Scotch-Gard.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 6:09 PM
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At this rate, how will we cover all the material.


Posted by: Lemmy Caution | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 6:10 PM
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...and the bartender said, "Take that out of your mouth! I was talking to the duck!"

Oh yeah, that's the good shit. Keep it coming. I'm a million miles away now . . .


Posted by: JL | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 6:11 PM
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255 is awesome.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 6:21 PM
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252: It compounds the error of using exactly the right word in a non-glamorous situation.

Ahhh, just so. I had a similar experience just the other day with "kine."


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 6:26 PM
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258: yes, you should have just said "cows".


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 6:29 PM
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It's a fallen world.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 6:30 PM
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255 is indeed awesome. "Insolence!" "What was I supposed to do?" makes me laugh and laugh.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 6:36 PM
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241: And thus, deviance is again defined down.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 6:40 PM
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asparagae

Tsk, tsk, a true Latin plural would be "asparagi". The really pedantic modern-day cook says "those green pointy things that make one's pee smell funny", in homage to Proust. [Well, OK, a somewhat heretical paraphrase.]

The problem with using "forums" instead of "fora" is that it leaves one unable to make the wordplay "fora and fauna" whilst discussing the realms of cyberspace and their various inhabitants.


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 6:49 PM
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Would that I could see 255.

As for this:

Ahhh, just so.

Don't get me started. I exclaimed "Just so!" to my advisor in conversation once years ago, god knows what I was thinking, and I thought he was going to shoot me, the sneer I got. Talk about having your ass handed to you in a ... wait now. What's that phrase?

Anyway, you gotta watch that stuff.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 6:51 PM
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Would that I could see 255.

255, assuming that the subtitles are accurate, demonstrates that the Japanese do in fact have a mastery of sarcasm and irony. You might not have wondered about that, but I have.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 6:54 PM
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Several groups of the myopic are called foris.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 6:55 PM
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"Just so!" is unacceptable? Try "And how!".


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 6:55 PM
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"Yeah, no shit!"


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 7:03 PM
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I don't even have A lacuna, let alone several lacunae, to necesitate a lacuna rack.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 7:08 PM
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Mind the gap.


Posted by: Invisible Adjunct | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 7:10 PM
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Arioch!


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 7:44 PM
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All the years I've seen that word—I never studied Latin—I thought Lacunae would be pronounced La-Coon-eye. But my old Webster's gives it as La-Coon-ee.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 7:50 PM
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La-Coon-Ass


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 7:52 PM
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I've always heard "eye".


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 7:55 PM
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255 is outstanding. "I mean, what the hell?"


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 8:00 PM
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264: Talk about having your ass handed to you on a trencher, as it were. Truly grievous.

271: What happens if you say that a third time?


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 8:00 PM
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276.2: MORE COCK!


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 8:04 PM
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276: Well...

A fly had come into the chamber. It buzzed about erratically, seeming almost to follow the lines of the runes Elric had so recently painted.
The fly settled first upon one rune and then on another.
...
The fly settled on Elric's forehead. It was a large, black fly and its buzz was loud, obscene. It rubbed its forelegs together, and it seemed to be taking a particular interest in Elric's face as it moved over it. Elric shuddered, but he did not have the strength to swat it. When it came into his field of vision, he watched it. When it was not visible he felt its legs covering every inch of his face. Then it flew up and, still buzzing loudly, hovered a short distance from Elric's nose. And then Elric could see the fly's eyes and recognise something in them. They were the eyes--and yet not the eyes--he had seen on that other plane.
It began to dawn on him that this fly was no ordinary creature. It had features that were in some way faintly human.
The fly smiled at him.
From his hoarse throat and through his parched lips Elric was able to utter but one word:
"Arioch?"


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 8:45 PM
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I used to sunbathe at Lacuna Beach but then it washed away.

Whatever.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 8:55 PM
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I would have been more surprised had that joke never been made before.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 11-19-07 8:56 PM
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All the years I've seen that word--I never studied Latin--I thought Lacunae would be pronounced La-Coon-eye. But my old Webster's gives it as La-Coon-ee.

The former is the reconstructed (Erasmian) pronunciation, the latter is the traditional English pronunciation.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 12:01 AM
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Latin plurals of "asparagus"? god, that I, an educated man, should have fallen among such company. It's from the Greek "asparagos", meaning a sprouting plant. It's already plural.

I am not going to read this thread as I think there is significant danger that some oaf may have tried to pluralise "penis" as "penii".


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 12:28 AM
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It's already plural.

Tell it to the marines.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 12:43 AM
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Anyway I already pointed out the obviously correct plural above.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 12:44 AM
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281 - I learnt "eye" at school.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 2:32 AM
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I suppose I say 'eye' but with a slightly different set of phonemes [closer to other uses of the 'ae' digraph in English]. Closer to 'hay' than 'eye'.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 2:53 AM
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Bah.

Internet addiction is just another way for middle clas wankers to feel special in that James Frey Million Little Pieces way without having to suffer the consequences of an actual addiction. Being an alcoholic, doing crack will kill you. Spending more time than normal on the internet won't.

And really, if you wonder whether you would have more of a social life without the internet: the answer is no.

I should know.


Posted by: Martin Wisse | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 3:17 AM
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at this speed, how we are supposed to cover all the material
ok, penii or asparagos 'll do
now just will have to spot the right personae
without errori


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 4:18 AM
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Oh, how many comments I wanted to respond to, but (yes, guilted by the post) I left the laptop at work and can't comment from my phone.

1. The comparisons between smoking and Unfogged addiction are apt. In fact, I first started lurking in the middle of a quit looking for something to do with that 10 minutes every couple of hours I was accustomed to taking a break from the work.

2. I second B's comment above as far as "Yeah, I also used to think I wasn't addicted because I could stop smoking anytime." There was probably a point when that was still true.

3. Wombats!! I love wombats. I have recommended it herebefore , but "Wombat Goes Walkabout" is my favorite kids book ever. All the other animals think Wombat is useless and lame because he doesn't do anything but sit around thinking and digging holes while the other creatures are doing fun things like running and flying and stuff. Wombat could be the mascot for Unfogged.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 5:58 AM
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All the years I've seen that word--I never studied Latin--I thought Lacunae would be pronounced La-Coon-eye. But my old Webster's gives it as La-Coon-ee.

What Teo says at 281. The Erasmian pronunciation was adopted in British and (I think) American high schools around the end of the c19. for teaching Latin. However, the traditional pronunciation continued to be used for words such as lacuna which had been accepted into English, and in legal phrases such as "hay'bius corpus" and "nolo contendery" until about 1980. I don't know why people have started affecting the pseudo-scholarly version in conversation - to me it sounds as false as pronouncing "garage" with a gutteral "r".


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 7:51 AM
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Oh dear, I would say "la-coon-eye" at any time. But I learnt it in Latin when I was 11, long before I might say such things in conversation. I'm not sophisticated enough to change my pronunciation according to where I am! For example, I still say Glasgow with a short 'a' as a result of living in Scotland for 2 years when I was little. I


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 8:04 AM
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118: "what's all that noise up there? Clicky clicky."


Posted by: W. Kiernan | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 8:06 AM
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I wouldn't worry about it, Asilon. You're half my age and language changes constantly. I will still resist "deity" or "reify" pronounced with an "ay" sound in the first vowel, but in time I may even give up on that.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 8:16 AM
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I still say PAT-ina instead of paTINA, to give one example of this kind of thing, but I think I give up these older usages when I become aware that they are eccentric to me in the circles where I use them.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 8:34 AM
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I have recently found myself pronouncing "dynasty" as "dinnasty". Why? I don't know. I don't even know what locality or type of person is associated with the pronunciation, but here I am, imitating them accidentally.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 8:45 AM
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And now I'm using the word "locality" instead of "place". Is "locality" even a word? Fuck all y'all, where "y'all" indicates myself.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 8:50 AM
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I have recently found myself pronouncing "dynasty" as "dinnasty". Why? I don't know. I don't even know what locality or type of person is associated with the pronunciation, but here I am, imitating them accidentally.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 8:59 AM
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I have recently found myself pronouncing "dynasty" as "dinnasty". Why? I don't know. I don't even know what locality or type of person is associated with the pronunciation, but here I am, imitating them accidentally.

England and English people.

Sorry about the fucked up tag.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 9:00 AM
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286 Ned's self-consciousness has reached such a pitch, he's about to evert into an extrovert.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 9:01 AM
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No! "Asparagus" is second declension! The plural is "asparagi"!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11-20-07 10:52 AM
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