Yep, it's Mukasey's big moment. For all the "I don't know anything about waterboarding" nonsense he was supposed to be reliably anti-lawbreaking. Now we find out.
Huh. Given the option of destroying the tapes entirely, or redacting them to remove images of the interrogators, the second option just never occured to them. A perfectly reasonable mistake that could have happened to anyone.
The unasked question is whether anyone as attractive as either Ollie North (he is, admit it) or Fawn Hall was involved. If not, I assume that this will sink without a trace in a couple of months.
Where are the inspector generals when you need them?
Answer: Going on vendettas against their children.
You gay up the CIA lawbreaking thread by comment 3? You've been resting up.
(he is, admit it)
We're all here for you, Tim. You can tell us anything.
5,6: There's something about a man in uniform.
That Jay Rockefeller and Jane Harman are completely fucking useless and deserve primary challenges.
I started off sixth grade with a teacher who had an Ollie North coloring book in class. Told us all what a great American hero he was, etc. Clearly off her rocker, even to my 11 year old self.
Then I got transferred to hippie guitar playing teacher who made us sing "Oh Christmas Tree" and such in multiple languages. At least she was good looking.
9: Yeah, makes me wonder if key Democrats are being constantly threatened with the Espionage Act or something.
Not that that's an excuse, I hasten to say.
Jay Rockefeller and Jane Harman are completely fucking useless and deserve primary challenges.
This is true of half the Democrats in Congress, which is why they never get primary challenges.
(he is, admit it)
For a politician, probably.
I'm tired of my federal government overlooking potential revenue-raising ways to relieve my tax burden. In a world where Hostel and Saw are big hits, destroying videotapes of harsh CIA torture is passing up potential boffo box-office. All would have been forgiven if it the grosses were good enough, guys!
15: It does make you wonder about the value of a Harvard MBA.
I take it that no one thinks there are going to be any prosecutions over this, right?
#1: "See we thought we were just taping over an old copy of knots landing."
#2: "Yeah, that's right... we did."
#1: "Because I remember, I was like, 'Hey Mike, do you still watch this?' and he was like, 'Nah, I'm on gossip girl now.'"
#2: "I DO love gossip girl."
#1: "So that was that. I don't know what else to tell you. Next question."
17, see 1. I'm not exactly holding my breath, but people whose judgment I trust say that whatever his shortcomings, the new AG at least has integrity. We've been disappointed before, but promises about exactly this are what made Schumer et al (no, none of the people whose judgment I trust are senators) vote for him...
Is treason still a capital crime? I generally not a fan of the death penalty, but I could probably be convinced it's a good idea in cases like this. No I am not joking and yes even if these were lowly subordinates under orders. Solely for deterrence.
We now have the potential to improve this critical department. There is virtually universal agreement, even from those who opposed Judge Mukasey, that he would do a good job in turning the department around. Indeed, my colleagues who opposed his confirmation have gone out of their way to praise his character and qualifications. More importantly, Judge Mukasey has demonstrated his fidelity to the rule of law, saying that if he believed the president were violating the law he would resign.
the new AG at least has integrity
I suspect that if this were true, he wouldn't have been nominated. I guess we'll see.
In a world where Hostel and Saw are big hits, destroying videotapes of harsh CIA torture is passing up potential boffo box-office.
Ogged's road to stardom will have a few bumps shocks to the testicles.
Is treason still a capital crime?
Yes, though I don't see how this would fall under the legal definition of treason.
17: I don't think the NYT reporter will be prosecuted.
22: Exactly. Even if you leave aside the loathsomeness of the Administration that nominated him and what that might tell us, no one rises to that level, particularly in politics, without a certain comfort with disposing of bodies. But I hope that this is over the line for him, nonetheless.
Oh, this looks like a good place to link to the comic about When the Revolution Comes.
"Frankly, Janeane, we really hadn't worked out exactly who would go up against the wall first!"
19: And we see how well confirmation hearing promises worked with those open-minded new Supreme Court justices.
If Mukasey weren't inclined to endorse criminality, he wouldn't have been nominated. Period.
From what I read at Glenn Greenwald, Mukasey as a judge was OK with endorsing criminality as long as the courts were kept in the loop.
22, 26, 29: Yeah, that's why I'm not holding my breath. I do hope, though that his judging career might give him some sympathy with the poor district judge in the Moussaoui case, who got lied to by the DOJ so often that she had to go on the record saying she couldn't believe them any more. This whole episode is a big fat public statement from the Executive Branch that courts are for sissies--sure, they've been saying so for years, but it hasn't really been front page NYT material like this--and like I say I'm hopeful that a former judge will resent that.
I mean it's one thing to say that no court has jurisdiction over your atrocities. That's one kind of contempt for the system. But to show up and then lie to the judge and withhold evidence, that's even more brazen.
Yes, though I don't see how this would fall under the legal definition of treason.
The legal definition of treason has never been the rich, nougaty center. A traitor is defined by his accusers.
Christ, I sound like mcmanus.
People, nothing's going to happen on this. Those very same useless Democrats will hold some useless committee hearings in order to show us liberals that they're Doing Something, and the CIA, Pentagon, White House, etc. will stonewall them, shamelessly obstructing justice and perjuring themselves in the process like they always have. No Democrat is going to even attempt to do anything serious to hold anyone accountable here, because ultimately that would mean impeaching someone - or quite a few someones - and the Democratic Party is quite happy with the political order as it is, regardless of who's torturing whom, and isn't going to do anything to rock the boat on the eve of an election where they stand to take control of the White House. There will be no justice here, as there won't be for any of the countless crimes committed by this administration and its predecessors, because nobody in a position to do anything about it has anything to gain from justice.
37: Long-term, I might be more optimistic than stras, but yeah, this little news development is just another pebble on a mountain of malfeasance.
isn't going to do anything to rock the boat on the eve of an election where they stand to take control of the White House
This is the pathetic, disgusting truth and the Bush administration knows it. By the time Jan 2009 rolls around, there won't even be a paper trail left for historians.
Stras is probably right, but there's a very outside shot that Mukasey cares. & what I really wish, and harbor unrealistic hopes of, is for a new administration to hire some human rights lawyers, give them security clearances, & have them investigate all of this stuff--in either a truth-commission sort of way, or a special-prosecutor sort of way. I don't think is impossible but I think it's extremely unlikely.
27: I think of the phrase pour encourager les autres pretty frequently in connection with the Bush administration.
39: maybe, maybe not. Pessimism can shade into an excuse for not doing anything.
I don't think is impossible but I think it's extremely unlikely.
Depressing, but true. It's really the only way to clear the air over this stuff.
40: I'm tempted to reply with some "and a pony" snark, but I, too, haven't given up hope that this is possible.
2
Dear Professor,
I could not turn in my senior thesis, "The Generational Challenge of Islamofacism and the Dhimmitude of the American Academe" because my authorship would invite violent reprisals from the jihadists. I have incinerated it to prevent it from falling into enemy hands.
Sincerely,
[redacted]
Of course, Katherine is just part of the human rights industrial complex, and her opinions should be taken with a grain of salt.
I disagree with Andrew Sullivan on many things, but this is one of the reasons why I still read him.
Stras is probably right about the foreseeable future, but I haven't given up hope that some of these guys will face some kind of justice during my lifetime. I want a Truth Commission, too.
First question: Aren't war crimes like torture punishable by death in some cases? Second question: Is there some way for Bush to be directly arrested, rather than impeached?
(Fans of irony will note that the arrest of a criminal president without impeachment occurred on TV's 24.)
stras is making me want to run for office. Too bad I have an indefensible public record of blog comments.
Mr. erner: Isn't it true that you've publicly admitted to urbanity?
No way, man! Your pseudonym is, like, impenetrable!
It's important to be shocked by this stuff even when we're not surprised--for whatever reason, Congressional investigations seem more likely when you're presented with a revelation that's not "old news." Thus the Comey hospital visit coming out in a probe of the U.S. attorney firings.
The critical question is whether Tim thinks I'm as good-looking as Ollie North.
Isn't it true that you've publicly admitted to urbanity?
You laugh, but:
"You are quoting from this Marlowe. Is he a Communist?"
Well, slol, Wikipedia says
Christopher "Kit" Marlowe (baptised 26 February 1564 - 30 May 1593) was a Communist dramatist, poet, and translator of the Elizabethan era.
I swear I didn't do that.
56: Perhaps some statute of limitations should apply to 'avant la lettre'.
It's already been changed back. That was rather convenient timing.
53: yay dick durbin.
Not surprised that Durbin is pushing this, I suspect that a day does not go by where he does not do a mental replay of the "some mad regime" apology kabuki.
"Christopher is often described to have brought sexy back Some believe that the question of whether an Elizabethan was "gay" or "homosexual" in a modern sense is [[anachronistic]]; for the Elizabethans, what is often today termed homosexual or bisexual was more likely to be recognised as simply a sexual act, rather than an exclusive sexual orientation and identity'
Ha. Ha.
The critical question is whether Tim thinks I'm as good-looking as Ollie North.
It seems unlikely, McSlol-y.
I think I have, on several occasions, admitted to being fairly prudish, LB. I've never understood the glamor of felching.
It'll be interesting, in the first instance, to see what Judge Brinkema does with this.
The idea certain habeas lawyers had of getting court orders directing the preservation of evidence, and then serving them on the Director of the CIA, is looking a little better now.
We have an order from Roberts barring destruction of any evidence to do with the prisoners (Abdullah and El Falesteny) [nb -- the order covers Abdullah only] and we served it on the directors of the FBI, CIA and others. Our position is that they could be in contempt, if they don't preserve evidence.
Slol's much better looking than Ollie North. Much.
Back to our fucked-up, evil ass government. On the one hand, quel surprise: of *course* they destroyed the evidence.
On the other hand, holy fucking shit. I don't know if I have a lot of faith in congress to do jack shit about this (though there are a few folks who might try to make a noise), but the candidates would be fools if *they* didn't keep it on the front pages during the general election. It's simple and sound-bite worthy, easy to understand, and sums up the last 8 years of legalistic bullshit in a nice, concrete way.
It seems unlikely, McSlol-y.
See, there goes the vital definitely-not-gay, just-aesthetically-appreciating-rugged-men vote.
and thanks, LB and B. Yuh beautiful, as that British cavalry officer says.
"Quel surprise"? Quelle surprise!