Re: Articulatibilitiness

1

i feel solidarity with Pr. Bush
and think personal attcks are mean


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 8:50 AM
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classist


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 8:53 AM
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A couple of days ago I was talking with a Congolese taxi driver who was adamantly, even angrily opposed to the idea that Bush was stupid. I still think it's mostly an elaborate, long-term legal strategy.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 8:54 AM
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I would so not be making fun of Bush if he were making mistakes like this in his fourth language, or even his second. In his native tongue, it's pretty lame.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 8:55 AM
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and think personal attcks are mean

You are going to find me quite mean in regards to the president, then.

classist

Why yes, I am the classiest.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 8:55 AM
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But read, English is your, what, fourth language? It's fair to point out that Bush speaks English as though it's not his first language, but still the only one he has.

Jonah Goldberg should be his official biographer.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 8:56 AM
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And so there's hardly anybody to negotiate with.

There is always somebody to negotiate with, except for the man who does not want to negotiate.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:02 AM
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On the BBC's "Dead Ringers" the Bush impersonator sometimes opens his speeches by saying "My fellow umbrella stands."


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:02 AM
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Also, ten instances of "in other words" in this talk, including one instance where he hasn't used an initial set of words yet: "In other words, what I'm about to tell you is, is that the Congress cannot take economic vitality for granted."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:07 AM
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ten instances of "in other words" in this talk

That must be the economics-talk version of "let me be clear"---his preferred locution circa 2002-2004 for war-talk.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:13 AM
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I really don't get the "Let's not attack our president for using unclear language, because I am not always clear" thing. He's used unclear language for seven entire years in order to obfuscate the torture and murder of people around the globe. He's not, like, someone who has a hard time ordering a six-inch at Subway. I don't get why people think it's mean to hold the most powerful person in the world to a standard slightly higher than we hold, say, a sixth-grader with Down Syndrome.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:23 AM
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The "in other words" or "let me be clear" is infuriating because it's his way of saying, "I know what's happening, you people are just idiots and I have to describe it in really simple terms for you." I think there was a post or comment a few weeks ago that nailed this description- he's an idiot who thinks he's the smart one talking to a bunch of idiots.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:32 AM
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What I especially love/hate is when he uses the exact same words before and after "in other words".


Posted by: dob | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:41 AM
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A couple of days ago I was talking with a Congolese taxi driver

The moustache of understanding looks good on you, JM.


Posted by: My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:44 AM
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12
thank you, you are adding a great value to the discussion (i wish i could use some emoticons to express my exact feelings)

my point is if you elected your president why not respect him as the head of your state
you have all rights to critisize his policy
just not personal insults how he looks speaks etc


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:44 AM
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he's an idiot who thinks he's the smart one talking to a bunch of idiots.

Yea, he is the idiot who got elected twice and has had his way with us. At some point, you have to give him (or his administration) credit for screwing us.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:44 AM
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my point is if you elected your president why not respect him as the head of your state
you have all rights to critisize his policy
just not personal insults how he looks speaks etc

His communication skills are directly related to whether he is a good head of state.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:45 AM
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not 12
to 11 i addressed my previous comment


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:46 AM
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I did not elect him. I don't respect him at all. I think the perspective that we should elect people who make us feel good about ourselves by not being very smart or articulate or capable or practical or ethical is deeply corrupt and corrupting. I didn't call him ugly. I said there's no reason to treat him like he's in Special Ed and might get discouraged if we asked him to talk like an intelligent person. He went to fucking Yale, fer Chrissakes.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:49 AM
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i am not talking about good or bad
you elected your president - you deserve what you have
once he is elected shouldn't he be above certain criticisms


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:50 AM
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once he is elected shouldn't he be above certain criticisms

Not in a democracy, no. And we don't deserve what we have.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:51 AM
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once he is elected shouldn't he be above certain criticisms

Oh, no. No. Once someone's been elected, you need to hold them to a higher standard, because their performance is so important.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:52 AM
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We feel disenfranchised by his election as head of our state, because neither election was fair. And his conduct has forfeited such respect as I was inclined to give him, for the office alone.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:52 AM
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And the majority of Americans elected Gore, read.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:52 AM
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i'm talking not about a personal vote against him, but general election results if it's legitimate


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:52 AM
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so how come Bush is the president


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:53 AM
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It wasn't legitimate, read. Bush declared victory before all the ballots were counted, there were ballot errors in several districts, and the Supreme Court ruled to halt the re-count and declared Bush the winner. It was fucked up at every level.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:56 AM
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once he is elected shouldn't he be above certain criticisms

Why? That is the heart of our country.

The head of state or government does not get to decide what criticisms are out of bounds.

Such things are far too easily abused.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:56 AM
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so how come Bush is the president

Some of us ask this question every day, read.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:57 AM
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It wasn't legitimate, read. Bush declared victory before all the ballots were counted, there were ballot errors in several districts, and the Supreme Court ruled to halt the re-count and declared Bush the winner. It was fucked up at every level.

I hate this argument. Being able to criticize your President shouldnt depend on his legitimacy.

It distracts from the issue that the government doesnt get to decide what we talk about.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:57 AM
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The only criticism which a legitimate election should exempt someone from is "You weren't legitimately elected."


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:59 AM
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once he is elected shouldn't he be above certain criticisms

No. No, no. No, no, no, no, and also no.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:01 AM
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i would say same things about the former President Clinton
that his personal life has nothing to do with his politics
and that levinsky affair should be kept private
ot corrupt all respect for governments everywhere


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:01 AM
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You're right, will, and I didn't mean to say that's why I "get" to criticize the president. Read just accused me of having elected him.

Read, if a huge majority of the people elect or re-elect a president, sometimes he can act with the sense of there being a "mandate" to follow through on campaign promises, etc., but even if the vote were nearly unanimous, the American people and their government always, always have the right, and even the duty, to criticize the president or any other member of representative government, because they're speaking in our names, and we have dignity, too. We're not a fascist state, or at least we weren't created as such.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:01 AM
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not


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:02 AM
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Read, I think the responsibility for not "corrupting all respect for governments everywhere" lies with the government, not the citizenry.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:03 AM
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How the president uses language is the main part of his job, too. It's not like a blowjob at all. All we pay the president to do is give speeches and make important and complicated decisions. If one can't speak well and is a moron at complex thought, the job of president is not something the high-school guidance counselor should have pointed to.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:04 AM
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Read, there is a big difference between someone's private life and the way they speak in public. The second is not "personal"; it's an integral part of their leadership role.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:05 AM
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You're right, will

In my household, the correct response is "You were right. I was wrong. How could I have ever doubted you?!?!" This must be said without any sarcasm.

I recently tried to convince an opposing lawyer to repeat that phrase when I turned out to be correct. But, he only said "Will, you are a shmuck."


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:05 AM
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Read: Fascist.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:06 AM
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Are we seriously having a debate on whether it's ok to criticize a president?


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:06 AM
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Are we seriously having a debate on whether it's ok to criticize a president?

asl is being disrepectful by not referring to him as "Our Beloved Commander in Chief." We are at War, after all.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:08 AM
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They're just being nice to the foreigner.

Charitably: read is ruling out only certain kinds of criticism, but still, in principle everything is fair game.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:09 AM
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Read: Fascist.

Ogged does not believe in being nice to foreigners.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:11 AM
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ogged: collaborator
generously

i said it's ok to criticise his policy, politics whatever
personal insults seem beneath at least me


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:15 AM
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That's a reasonable position, and I'd probably agree with you if the insults were "Bush is ugly". But being articulate and able to communicate his policy ideas is a large part of his job, and he's incompetent at it. That's not a personal insult, that's a criticism of his job performance.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:17 AM
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39. Speaking of divorce lawyers. Will, this WaPo piece on getting "good" divorce says that now is the peak season. Is that right? (So OT there isn't a symbol.)


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:18 AM
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What is personal about asking that someone whose job is to communicate concentrate a little harder on making, like, sentences out of his words, read? Especially when it's precisely because of prevaricating and vague language that he's been able to get away with a shit-ton of policy fuck-ups? Don't you see this is the strategy of his entire administration, to act naive and stupid as a way of not being able to be pinned down about what he means? At this point, I think you're either being obtuse, read, or else you're taking this really personally, as if everyone's criticizing your use of English. We're not, because it's not your job to run our government with your words.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:19 AM
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you elected your president - you deserve what you have
once he is elected shouldn't he be above certain criticisms

Hitler was elected, too. And in a more legitimate election than our president. </Godwin>


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:19 AM
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Use your words!


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:21 AM
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Who the fuck is this idiot writing in blank verse?


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:21 AM
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48
you win
i don't believe in win by all means


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:22 AM
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47:

generally a pretty accurate article.

Robert Emory (UVA guy) is a sharp guy who has done some very interesting research into the method people use to divorce and how that impacts their happiness.

My shameless plug is for collaborative practice to resolve divorces. Mediators cannot give you legal advice. Their only real goal is resolution.

http://www.collaborativepractice.com/


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:23 AM
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In read's defense, the fabulous luxury of criticizing the executive that we enjoy doesn't mean jack shit to the rest of the world that has to suffer because of American decisions.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:27 AM
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53. Thanks. It's interesting that the article is in the health section. Certainly it is a wellness issue.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:27 AM
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This isn't a competition. But there are some jobs that require skills. No one would have any problem criticizing me if, as a professor of English, I couldn't string a sentence together. My classes would complain, because I wouldn't be helping them learn about literature if I don't even have a basic grasp of the language. I'd get fired.

People who don't speak English well and have no aspiration to be able to do so should probably not become (1) public speakers, (2) educators, (3) lawyers, or (4) members of representative government. And if we were talking about someone who'd been raised in poverty without access to education, or with English as his second language, then, yeah, maybe we'd be snobs for criticizing his speech. But this is one of the most privileged human beings on the face of the planet, and he has been since he was very young. Who he is, where he's from, and what he does matter.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:28 AM
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I believe in speaking insultingly about people with lots of power. Hard satire, nasty personal insults. The feeling of respect verging on awe that most Americans have for the office of the Presidency is bad for our democracy and in fact has become a kind of fascist trope on the right. Are we worried that somehow the government won't function if we stop speaking reverently of those who run it?

As for hurting their feelings, these people have sought the spotlight and the bully pulpit. Also, they're usually complete bastards.


Posted by: Bave Dee | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:28 AM
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If Bush spoke perfect, eloquent English, he'd still be the worst President ever.


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:31 AM
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57 gets it right. Bush has been playing "Poor widdle me" about criticism since day one. Because apparently he's such a wilting lily that he decided to become the most powerful person in the world.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:31 AM
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53. The pictures on the Collaborative Practice site are attractive. Everyone is smiling. If I had known how happy I could be, I'd have gotten divorced years ago. I'd also have to get married, so there's that.

Seriously, CP does look like a method.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:31 AM
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like a good method


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:34 AM
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Collaborative Practice gets a nod in Juno.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:34 AM
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Bush was supposed to be a CEO president who picked good people and got out of their way, which means pretty much his only job is making speeches in this sound-bite happy society. He doesn't seem to be good at even that part.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:35 AM
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Seriously, CP does look like a method.

It can work really well. You certainly have a lot more power than you do if all you have is an hour before a judge.

Litigation is a very bad model for resolving problems for people who have to maintain a relationship.

In CP, you get to focus on solving problems, not attacking each other.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:37 AM
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Bush was supposed to be a CEO president who picked good people and got out of their way, which means pretty much his only job is making speeches in this sound-bite happy society.

You forgot the other important duty of a CEO, which is collecting tens of millions of dollars in golden parachute money when your shitty performance gets you fired. I think he's got that part down.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:38 AM
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Who the fuck is this idiot writing in blank verse?

I, for one, would be very impressed by someone who could troll in unrhymed lines of iambic pentameter. But read's comments don't scan.


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:42 AM
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troll in unrhymed lines of iambic pentameter

The reason there are no ladies who blog
On matters of import is that they all
Were victims of abortion. Also, why
Does ev'rybody here lend their support
To Hezbollah? I guess you're all just on
The side of terrorists. How typical.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:50 AM
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How dare you criticize the President?
It is the fault of those filthy lib'ruls
With their stupid Constitution fetish.
He is the President of these here states!
Decider he is, free from all question.
Want a free trip to Guantanamo Bay?
Keep disrespecting our Belov'd Leader.


Posted by: winna | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:57 AM
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In addition to the other parts of the speech that make us all cry, the President appears not to know that there is no "Public Works Committee" in the House, and there hasn't been one for a long time. (It's been called the Transportation & Infrastructure Committee since at least the mid-90s, and there was at least one other name between "Public Works" and today.) Perhaps he's a scholar of congressional history?


Posted by: BDM | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:58 AM
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70

apo, I stand in awe.


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:03 AM
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From the speech linked in 69:

"The first part of the question was immigrant -- immigration. As you know, I'm a person who believes strongly in comprehensive immigration reform. I agree with our citizens who say that we've got to do a better job of enforcing the laws of the country. And the laws of the country is, you know, you can't employ somebody who is here illegally -- knowingly employ somebody who is here illegally -- and that you've got a border for a reason, a Border Patrol for a reason, to enforce the border. And I'm for that and I supported congressional efforts to modernize our border, and we are."

"And as the person who have asked these brave young men and women to go into combat, I feel a special obligation to make sure that our veterans, particularly those who served under my watch, get the absolute best care. I'm -- I marvel -- isn't it interesting, by the way, it's the first military question -- just an observation point -- (laughter) -- I marvel at our military, and I marvel at the kids who -- in the military. Not only kids, but -- at 62 you can call them 'kids' -- 61 you can call them 'kids.'"


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:04 AM
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72

Your next assignment: trolling in sonnet form.


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:05 AM
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73

I prefer the Hiawatha meter.

My dream is for all us people
to have medical devices
that record within a decade. 1
But my caveat to make sure
that material is private,
that nobody else can get it
is to be against the gas tax,
tax on gas is a price driver
So we need to raise the gas tax
to reduce our oil dependence
But the Black-Robe chief,
the Prophet, He the P.O.D., the Cheney
Will forbid us thus so doing.
Here's the thing about the highway,
it goes on for many hours
I don't know whether you know this,
but the Public Works Committee
I guess is quite big in Congress.
Is that right, Eric-be-wawa?
And the way they get the bills out
of the House onto the cornfields
is to give all a special project.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:06 AM
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74

But that doesn't fit the Hiawatha meter, Gonerill.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:09 AM
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75

would you all please FUCK OFF
i write in whatever form, verse or not
my thought process desires to express


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:13 AM
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76

Fuckin' right, read.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:15 AM
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67- apostropher- By 'ladies', are you speaking to gender or to women with certain characteristics? Because if you speaking of gender, there are certainly women who blog, often on issues that are quite important. Although I vehemently disagree with your assertion of abortion as causative, I'm not sure such women have those characteristics generally attributable to 'ladies' so you might be right there.


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:15 AM
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Pretty good, you're just a few syllables short in the first line, otherwise it's good pentameter.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:16 AM
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But that doesn't fit the Hiawatha meter, Gonerill.

It's close enough to trochaic tetrameters for me.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:16 AM
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75 gets it exactly right.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:20 AM
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when i fuck
(mostly by luck)
the desire is oft expressed
that my form
(hardly the norm)
be slightly less repressed


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:22 AM
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It's a puzzle, indeed -
Should one say "read" or "read"?
If we're meant to say "read" -
Rhymes with "better off dead
By some foul mujahid"
But instead we say "read" -
Will he pay any heed
If we all call him "read"
As in rhymes with " trollfeed"
When we should have said "read"
As in "hole in the head"?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:29 AM
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Your next assignment: trolling in sonnet form.

I think that I shall never see an ass
So fine as heebie-geebie's. I'd hit that.
But Sarah Jessica Parker? I'll pass.
And Love-Hewitt? Oh neighbor please, she's fat.
It doesn't matter much because most of
Y'all stuck-up bitches never date nice guys.
You just mistake a thick wallet for love
And every time a normal fellow tries
To show you that he cares about your mind,
You tell him, "Oh you're such a perfect friend,
I wouldn't want to mess it up this time."
Then you just fall for asshole guys again.
If this be error and upon me proved,
I never writ, nor no man ever loved.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:32 AM
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Man, I really should get to work. Read, nobody's making fun of you right now. A challenge to troll in blank verse or sonnet form is the sort of thing most of the readership here finds irresistible.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:34 AM
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Thanks to apo's employer for subsidizing 83.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:35 AM
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I did not elect him

Sure you did. You may not have voted for him, but you elected him.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:36 AM
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apo is an elector? For the Republicans, no less?

Shame.


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:38 AM
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would you all please FUCK OFF
i write in whatever form, verse or not
my thought process desires to express

When I said "who the fuck is this idiot writing in blank verse," I was more irritated by the idiot part than I was by the verse.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:39 AM
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Ajay was sure on the right track
When talking of what read might lack:
The whole of her head,
A way to be read,
But 'jay she's as well short a sack.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:39 AM
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90

83 would be better with a volta.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:40 AM
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91

The other thing to remember, read, is that stras is an asshole whom you can mostly ignore to your profit.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:40 AM
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92

If I didn't have to finish this report, I'd do a rondeau about Ralph Nader.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:41 AM
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83 would be better with a volta.

It's open-source poetrolling, Ben. Tweak and recompile to your heart's content.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:42 AM
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94

91: What? Are we being nice to the trolls now?


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:43 AM
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95

Just the Mongolian ones.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:44 AM
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96

Stras, read isn't a troll.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:44 AM
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97

At least not an intentional one.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:44 AM
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98

To my mind, intention is a crucial factor in trollhood.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:45 AM
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99

Also "accidental lady troll of the Mongolian steppe" is a concept with some dramatic legs. Maybe a Tintin book in there someplace?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:46 AM
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94. Just to the trolls who must take EAAFL courses.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:46 AM
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96: Sure he is. If anyone else came in and started pouting about how we were being mean to Bush and how he was Our President, they'd be roundly mocked, not condescendingly lectured on the fundamental basics of American democracy.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:46 AM
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98: Restate in iambic pentameter, please.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:46 AM
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103

Some of you people are mean. I am objectively pro-read.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:47 AM
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104

Some of you people are mean.

I'm mean as a matter of principle, but right now I'm just playing word games.

Assholes.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:48 AM
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I like read! She's the funnest trolly spambot in all of central Asia!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:49 AM
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not condescendingly lectured on the fundamental basics of American democracy.

Maybe if we pointed out that mocking the President is a time honored tradition, going back to at least John Adams. (Was Washington publicly mocked?)


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:50 AM
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All right then, I apologize to Read for mocking her accidental trollishness and hilariously bizarre habit of writing in verse. Happy now?


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:51 AM
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106: You don't mock a man with thirty goddamn dicks, TLL.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:52 AM
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69: In addition to the other parts of the speech that make us all cry, the President appears not to know that there is no "Public Works Committee" in the House, and there hasn't been one for a long time.

Actually, this seems like a very good analogy to read's complaint about people being insufficiently deferential to authority. I didn't know that there wasn't a Public Works Committee, or that there ever had been. But so what? I'm not the damn president.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:52 AM
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But so what? I'm not the damn president.

That's because you're a fascist, Cyrus.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:54 AM
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There once was a man called strasmangelo
A something a something a tangelo...

Eh, I got nothing.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:54 AM
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People who don't speak English well and have no aspiration to be able to do so should probably not become (1) public speakers, (2) educators, (3) lawyers, or (4) members of representative government.

Pause to point out that the problem with Bush's speech(es) isn't precisely that he doesn't speak English well, but that he's nearly incoherent. His *thinking* is, shall we say, confused. This we have a right to express concern about.

read's not getting that part, perhaps. Whatever.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:54 AM
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To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. (1918)

Theodore Roosevelt (Republican)


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:56 AM
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This is just the camel's nose under the tent, you know, people. Pretty soon this place will be crawling with earnest second-language spambots asking us why we hate the troops and kill our babies.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:57 AM
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And something-ti-something D'Angelo.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:57 AM
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Seriously, no other sonnets? You people disappoint me.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:57 AM
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Sonnets are hard.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 11:58 AM
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I suck at scansion.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:02 PM
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asking us why we hate the troops and kill our babies

Wait, I thought the troops killed their babies. Now I'm confused. I don't want the troops killing our babies. Guess I'll vote for Obama. (Who should change the pronunciaction of his name to O- BAMA, and he would win the Bubba vote, unless you went to Auburn.)


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:02 PM
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Who should change the pronunciaction of his name to O- BAMA

Or change his first name to Al.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:03 PM
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120. Still loses the Tiger vote. War Eagle, or whatever.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:08 PM
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I scan at suction.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:08 PM
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"Who the fuck is this idiot writing in blank verse?"

I believe it is the President.


Posted by: Bryan | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:10 PM
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If Obama became president and named Oprah his vice-president, would it be unbecoming to criticize her book club selections?


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:11 PM
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I shun at sun casks.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:12 PM
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If Obama became president and named Oprah his vice-president

She would never agree to such a dimunition of her power, prestige and pay.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:13 PM
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51, 82 &c.: Maybe people have a different perspective on America's glorious Freedom of Speech when America's glorious Capitalistic Way of Life is something that gets forced their throats, and they're supposed to thank us for freeing them from oppression while their own voices don't count for shit, and when the supposed opposition in America's glorious Democracy rejoices in pointing out that the executive is an idiot but can't bring itself to check his power.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:13 PM
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¦¦

OT, but what's with the new mouseover?

¦>


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:14 PM
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Careful what you wish for, apo:

"Harding in his mist is bad enough, but Harding crystal-clear might be a great deal worse." -- H. L. Mencken


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:18 PM
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I wish for sonnets. I am being insufficiently entertained.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:20 PM
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Re: collaborative process above, it sounds like a great alternative but isn't always an available option. If I understand it correctly, when you do a collaborative divorce, everyone has to sign on to that in the beginning and if the process tanks you may wind up having to litigate anyway but have to start over with new lawyers. I went with a collaborative lawyer, UNG did not. Very early on my lawyer said, "The collaborative process is very good in many cases. This is not going to be one of them."

That said, big plug for collaborative practitioners even in cases where a truly collaborative resolution is never going to happen. I think I probably dodged what could have been a nasty financial bullet because my lawyer's collaborative orientation led her to steer clear of and in many cases head off a good number of stupid battles.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:23 PM
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Why are we supposed to respect W, again? Does he have a posse that will beat us up if they think we are trying to step to him in the club?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:24 PM
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Shouldn't it be a Swarthmore-educated black dyke?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:25 PM
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130: Apo, back in high school I had a friend with whom all our written correspondence (i.e., notes passed in class) for like a year was in sonnet form (Shakespearean, not Italian). Oh, would that I could oblige you today, but I must prepare an oral argument for tomorrow.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:26 PM
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Does he have a posse that will beat us up if they think we are trying to step to him in the club?

Is this a rhetorical question?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:27 PM
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I hate you, Apo, and my employer hates you too.

From his madrassa, the Prophet's dark horse
Has now been awakened: Barack Hussein
Obama, that beige man poised to pull Main
Street America to defeat by force
Of charisma alone. We will divorce
Our Christian brides for virgin houris, chain
Ourselves to the bonds of dhimmitude, gain
Peace -- the peace of slaves! Does mere water course
Through our hearts, that this man, not even black,
Can offer us his "religion of peace"?
We say no. Defeatocrats wet their pants
And cry, "Peace be upon him!", and stand back
While he takes orders from the Middle East.
Sic semper tyrannis! Agree, or move to France.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:27 PM
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132- Um, Yes?


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:27 PM
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I made no real attempt at scansion there. English ain't Italian, yo.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:28 PM
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I must prepare an oral argument for tomorrow.

Do it in villanelle form!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:29 PM
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136: Excellent! Everybody else please write less impressive sonnets.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:30 PM
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I think the real story here is that Bush had to go the Fredericksburg Rotary Club to find a friendly audience. Were the Elks busy or something?


Posted by: Gabriel | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:32 PM
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Is this a rhetorical question?

Yes, and also an allusion to the speciousness of most claims to respect.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:33 PM
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99: Also "accidental lady troll of the Mongolian steppe" is a concept with some dramatic legs. Maybe a Tintin book in there someplace?

I realize that it is only from öbör mongγol, but this mashup [note: 4Mb pdf] of Little Sisters of the Grassland with an American classic may be worth a read.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:34 PM
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Wow, I know I'm late to the party, but did read just send you people on an earnest wander through "Is the president above criticism?" The only sensible response to that is read the FAQ. Or are we now the Junior Rotary blog?

Also 81 is fantastic.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:38 PM
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Unfogged! Thou shouldst be typing at this hour:
Dame Web hath need of thee; in this small box
Compose thy posts, thy screeds, thy jokes of cocks
That all might smile and Sweet Reason may flow'r
Tho the netroots claim they've growing power
They merely strut and squeal -- their ranting mocks
Serious men and times as proud peacocks -
Accomplishing naught except a glower.
We ghastly pale in the monitor's glare
Beseech thee! Raise us high above the ground
That we may inhale - uh, just the clear air
Where our keyboards click with barely a sound
And laughter's sweet warmth melts our cold despair
As we preview then post - oh, fuck you, clown.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:46 PM
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Thanks, everybody!

People power stops FISA immunity:

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/12/18/victory/index.html


Posted by: Chris Dodd | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:52 PM
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George Bush cannot get out a line of prose
Without the jackal pack baying for blood.
It's not his fault the world beyond his nose
Won't act the way his god predicts it should.

It's we who fail our great and fearsome chief --
We and those uncooperative facts --
And science, which gives the godly grief
(And also, those insurgents in Iraq)

And mullahs who scrap their atomic bombs --
And mortgage markets, dropping stonelike still --
And kids who have sex at their junior proms --
At least Harry Reid still obeys his will.

Blame not George Bush's idiotic cheer.
Blame blacks, Hispanics, librul fascists, queers.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:54 PM
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Jeez, Chris, that wasn't even a passable Haiku.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:55 PM
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Actually, it almost was:
Thanks, everybody
People power stops FISA
Immunity now.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:56 PM
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You know what? This language doesn't fucking rhyme properly.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:56 PM
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Election season is upon us again: 2008
will be the year that the nation's fate
Will - for the short term at least -- be decided.
Who will lead? You think it will be: the much derided
Hillary? Surely not - that cackling scold
Makes the blood of men run cold
With fear and disgust. We search in vain
For someone else to take up the mantle. Barack Hussein
Obama? Can you really mean
To deliver our nation to that muhajideen?
Or Edwards? He cannot; the duresses
Of presidency would make him muss his pretty tresses.
It must be Giuliani then, when all is done.
Because everything changed after nine-one-one.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 12:58 PM
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If I didn't have to finish this report, I'd do a rondeau about Ralph Nader.

Let me take care of that for you, bub:

Critiquing the unsafe Corvair,
he made the populace aware
with singular courageous vision,
relentless, angry, focused mission,
That power can be so unfair.

He made the land's consumers care
about their houses, water, air,
about the risks of nuclear fission
and the Federal Trade Commission -
he lies in ruin.

Obsessively he took great care
to show us what our parties share,
implacable, without condition,
sin on sin of grave omission,
neglecting truly to compare -
he lies in ruin.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:05 PM
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Had I known you overeducated fuckers would post ones like this, I'd have put a lot more effort into mine.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:06 PM
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The true face of The Left, again espied
Amidst full condoms and empty syringes
With contradicted thoughts and righteous binges
In dirty fucking hippy garb attired
You said that it was I that lied
When your own argument is off its hinges
The patient logician within me cringes
To hear rank perfidy's poison again plied
To reason I invite you all to share
The goosing of my invisible hand
The verity of all the right may say
I do not come to split your shaggy hair
But to declare a timeless truth most grand
The noble dictum "A = A"


Posted by: Mo MacArbie | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:15 PM
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I'm guessing that everyone here has seen it at one time or another, but given where the thread has gone here is a link to "Make the Pie Higher", the poem of Bushisms.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:17 PM
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There once was a man called strasmangelo
In his buttone could fit a lit tangelo
He said with a shudder
As he pooped out another
Flaming citrus sets my ass aglow


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:19 PM
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I like the Nader one better, Chopper.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:22 PM
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I spent enough time on this that it really ought to be better:

Shall I compare a fascist and a lib?
How many have the latter hunted, jailed?
Though fascist leftists call my treatise glib
None other is so serious, so detailed
Analogies fell victim to their ban
On speech outside the strictures of PC
--Yes, almost done, Mums!--That was Lucianne.
Where was I? Ah! My yearning to breathe free
Of fascist lib'ral plots to hide the truth
I note not a likeness--nay, identities!
Swarthmorofascists are bereft of ruth
As Hitler, and all farmers of organic bees
At night, a knock. Afraid, I light the lamp.
The Brown ed prof now takes me to the camp.


Posted by: anonymous | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:27 PM
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I'm not a mature man, stras.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:28 PM
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158 - Racist.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:28 PM
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158: Take some credit. That was awesome.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:29 PM
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|| In other nrews, Turturro's Jesus Quintana in "The Big Lebowski" is the best supporting part ever. Also, stereotypes!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:30 PM
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||Jesus Quintana

|>


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:31 PM
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162: It must be admitted, though, that the role would have been better played by Randy Moss.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:32 PM
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I'm the state-schooled, no advanced-degreed kid in the locker room who is now realizing just how small his penis really is.


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:33 PM
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165: You're not alone, asl! Though that is one awfully small penis.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:35 PM
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Were it not for the trade, "Purple Jesus" would have been Randy Moss, but Adrian Peterson is the man now.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:37 PM
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I won't be impressed by anything less than a sestina.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:37 PM
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Write your own sestina.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:38 PM
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169: You wouldn't be impressed.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:41 PM
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I've lost all my poetic ability along with the spark of youth.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:42 PM
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Funny place to keep your poetic ability.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:44 PM
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Having realized belatedly that the third line from the bottom of 168 has two many syllables, if it's permitted I'd like to edit it to: "As Hitler and organic killer bees."


Posted by: anonymous | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:46 PM
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How about, "As plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee."


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 1:50 PM
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It's not even a language issue--it's that he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. Seriously. Look at that pargraph about the mortgage crisis. The man completely doesn't understand the problem. So he's babbling incoherently and throwing in the words he remembers someone telling him were important.

It's fucking appalling.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 2:15 PM
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he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about

See, this is it. You won't get this from a transcript, but nearly every speech I've seen him make contains one silver dollar word that Bush clearly has just recently been told to use (and perhaps just as recently, ever said before) because he enunciates it very carefully and then—no matter how inappropriate—has this one-second, involuntary, triumphant smirk. If he had thought bubbles, you would see it flash, "Nailed it. Heh."

I would willingly drop the natural-born citizen requirement for the presidency in exchange for a demonstration that a candidate has mastered basic subject-verb agreement.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 2:42 PM
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I would willingly drop the natural-born citizen requirement

Pro amnesty-for-illegal-aliens fascist.


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 2:55 PM
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Washington was called 'Mr. President,'
As it befit his republican creed.
Pomp and awe is hardly our precedent.

Jefferson's State of the Union was sent.
'Why go orate, when the Congress can read?'
Washington was called 'Mr. President.'

Taft was a fatty, as Harding was bent,
Anti-Federalists wrote a mean screed--
Pomp and awe is hardly our precedent.

Fluids at risk from the commie effluent,
A new Imperial Pres. was decreed.
Washington was called 'Mr. President,'

In the face of such rank aggrandizement,
Mocking this maladriot's act is meet. Read,
Pomp and awe is hardly our precedent.

A dynast's dream of a War President,
Is ruled by the issue of an inbreed.
Washington was called 'Mr. President,'
Pomp and awe is hardly our precedent.


Posted by: ixnaythemetier | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 3:01 PM
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Damn you, ixnaythemetier, I was going to attempt a villanelle, but I won't try to compete with that.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 3:06 PM
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175: I hadn't expected to find much interesting there, but looking at it closer, he actually seems to be repeating someone saying "the banks don't _own_ the mortgages."


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 3:14 PM
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... he actually seems to be repeating someone saying "the banks don't _own_ the mortgages."

Yep. If I understand the situation, (a) he's right, to an extent; and (b) that's a part of the problem. I hate to be defending the guy, but once the mortages have been sliced and diced and repackaged as collateralized debt obligations, some village in northern Norway owns (pieces of) the mortages while someone else (e.g. Countrywide) has the contract to service the mortgages. It's in the servicer's interest to foreclose (they get extra fees) while those who bought pieces of the CDOs aren't in a position to renegotiate.


Posted by: Michael H Schneider | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 4:20 PM
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"Make the Pie Higher", the poem of Bushisms.

Having not seen this, I'm just going to imagine that it was written to the tune of "Keep the Car Running".


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 4:23 PM
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'if you drink from their well abide their customs' comes to mind
but it feels innatural and strange for me
i swear i never swear and shout
and hopefully won't again unless forced


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 5:18 PM
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un


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 5:21 PM
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183: Really, shouting at people who are being jerks is just fine around here, and people were being jerks. Swear and shout as you choose.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 5:23 PM
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181: I understand what he's trying to say. I don't think that he quite does.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 5:26 PM
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He does have a business degree. I would guess that he understands this better than the vast majority of other issues that he should understand. He might not understand why it's a problem, though.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 5:30 PM
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The Brits elected one of the most articulate politicians ever - Tony Blair - didn't do THEM much good. In some ways an eloquent dissembler is an even greater danger to democracy than a crass idiot.


Posted by: Herr Torquewrench | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 5:43 PM
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There was a case rather hysterically reported where a judge threw out a foreclosure case, seemingly because someone in the process of mortgage transfers had forgotten to actually endorse things properly. I mention this not because I think Bush had any inkling of what he was talking about but so that the lawyers can enjoy the fantastically snarky footnote in the ruling.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 5:44 PM
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189. there will be more, not less of that. Unwinding this mess will take years. Another good explanation of what happened here:
http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk/2007/12/please-dont-des.html


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 5:51 PM
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Inspired by 158:

The Education of Jonah Goldberg, Part II

I see they've got you too, J Pod, K Lo -
In this place with "kumbaya" above the gate
It seems re-ed, not death, 's to be our fate
They're kinder, gentler fascists, don't you know.
Ramesh is less upbeat: "They're Death's Party!
Who euthanize without a second thought!"
He whispers - sidewise, so his words aren't caught
By Che, our guard, the Cuban functionary

And now, again, Self-criticism Time
Set topic: that the nanny-state is good
That money taken from rich white guys should
Be spent on welfare mothers and French mime.
No! no more waterboard - please, not another...
The process is complete, I love Big Mother.


Posted by: Amit | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 6:38 PM
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Yay, trollish poetry!


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 7:21 PM
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183:

'if you drink from their well abide their customs' comes to mind
but it feels innatural and strange for me

This reads marvelously doubly: here on Unfogged, drink from their well, abide their customs? 'Tis a hard thing sometimes.

Or here in the US? Wherein we criticize the president.

I want to be read for a (s)pace.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 7:23 PM
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Re 192:

I hope 191 didn't come across as though I'm batting for the other side. 191 is all in Goldberg's head. I agree with the prevailing consensus that Goldberg is a tool.


Posted by: Amit | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 8:09 PM
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194.---No, no, that's a sincere hooray.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 8:12 PM
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Aw, shucks...


Posted by: Amit | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 8:22 PM
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These liberals are all fascists through and through.
Organic food, health care, the smoking ban?
What they don't tell you is that Hitler did it too.

They'll barricade the church and overturn each pew,
Atheistic unbelievers to a man.
These liberals are all fascists through and through.

They'll teach your kids what Darwin said is true:
But unnatural selection's their real plan.
What they don't tell you is that Hitler did it too.

They'll cant sensitivity to those with another view,
And turn around and then oppress the Klan.
These liberals are all fascists through and through.

They'll say animals are with human rights imbued,
And try to keep your steak from out your pan.
What they don't tell you is that Hitler did it too.

It's time we gave these little Eichmanns what is due,
Then maybe go to war, just to prove we can.
These liberals are all fascists through and through.
What they don't tell you is that Hitler did it too.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 8:32 PM
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Damn.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 8:33 PM
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199

B-Wow. Nice.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 8:43 PM
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Kobe praises you. Twice. Hot damn.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 8:46 PM
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I'm really feeling the pathos in that steak.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:42 PM
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Wow.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 9:47 PM
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Nicely done, dubster.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-18-07 10:54 PM
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wt@#$% or et tu brutal something?!
i said my apologies like million times
where is your liberalism with pluralism of opinions etc
you say what you think without any second thought and you are instantly a troll and idiot :(

but seriously i m so very glad to find the well so well versed in verse and sound
cool


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 12-19-07 6:25 AM
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Look at that pargraph about the mortgage crisis. The man completely doesn't understand the problem.

Well, have to disagree a little on that one. The split between the mortgage servicer and the asset owner really is an important barrier to getting this whole thing sorted out.


Posted by: PerfectlyGoddamnDelightful | Link to this comment | 12-19-07 7:46 AM
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204: wt@#$% or et tu brutal something?!

Read, seriously, don't take it personally. Sure, you've been mocked a little, but this is mostly just because people are enjoying the challenge of poetry on Unfoggedesque themes.

where is your liberalism with pluralism of opinions etc
you say what you think without any second thought and you are instantly a troll and idiot :(

Well, I don't think liberalism and pluralism of opinions means that people are obliged to treat all ideas uncritically. Treat all ideas equally, maybe -- maybe! -- but even if we should treat all ideas equally, around here, that means critically and irreverently. If people think it's acceptable and good to criticize people, especially people in power, they're free to say so, and say why.

Also, AWB gave one answer to this, but there's an even more important one:

26:so how come Bush is the president

The president of the United States is chosen by the electoral college, not by popular vote exactly. (The electoral college is really complicated to explain, try looking it up on Wikipedia if you need to. But to simplify the problem, it gives more weight to voters who live in small states than in large states.) Bush won more electoral votes than Gore, but Gore won some of his electoral votes by larger margins than Bush. So there is debate over what AWB said in 27, but even if there wasn't, there's no question that Gore got more votes.

But aaanyways, I don't think that has anything to do with whether and how we should criticize Bush. I agree with 30 and 36.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 12-19-07 7:56 AM
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thanks, Cyrus
i'll figure out things eventually
so you are saying more people voted against Bush
but the system allowed him to win
hee, can't Obama (if he'll win the nomination) do the same thing
and he is from Indonesia, i don't understand why people always refer to him as black
this election may be he won't become the president, just because he is still young, the next term - may be
sure it's none of my business american elections, just curious


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 12-19-07 8:20 AM
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He grew up in Indonesia for a while, but his father's Kenyan. 'Black', to an American, means having African ancestry.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-19-07 8:22 AM
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ah, really
i did not know that


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 12-19-07 8:33 AM
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208: Yes we have very detailed rules on that, because it is very important to keep a careful accounting of things like this because ....., well just because.

The terms mulatto, quadroon, and octoroon originated with the racial policies of European colonizers in the Americas, especially the Spanish. Because civil rights and responsibilities were based directly on the degree of European blood that a person had, such classifications were highly elaborated, and minor distinctions in ancestry were carefully recorded. While these terms have highly precise definitions, in actual practice they were often used based on impressions of skin color rather than definite knowledge of ancestry.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-19-07 8:37 AM
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rules?
how very eloquent racism
hopefully the excerpt is not from the constitution


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 12-19-07 8:54 AM
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the text is hopefully historic, explanatory and describing
the practice, not decree
still a well wriiten piece of skin gradation, disgusting


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 12-19-07 9:05 AM
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212: Yes it is a description of past practice. Not followed now, but it is a big piece of the puzzle in the weird messed up evolution in the US of racial classifications.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-19-07 9:11 AM
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210: In all fairness, we should note that this multi-level racial classification system for persons of African origin has been supplanted by the two-level system advanced by Chris Rock.


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 12-19-07 9:54 AM
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