Re: Prisoner's Dilemma

1

This smacks of Becks trying to figure out how to work our new favorite phrase into a post.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 12-21-07 10:58 PM
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I had the post first but the opportunity to say that was too good to pass up.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 12-21-07 10:59 PM
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voluntary exchange witch makes us both better off allows the airlines to blacklist you


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 12-21-07 11:07 PM
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4

That's not very nice of her.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-21-07 11:08 PM
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Does this really happen that often? I've only been on a few overbooked flights, but I don't remember people ever being too eager to get bumped.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-21-07 11:09 PM
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Of course, I don't fly very often.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-21-07 11:09 PM
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This happens all the time lately. Airlines are way overbooking their flights because capacity's down -- there just aren't as many empty seats anymore. Tonight, they were asking for volunteers for almost every flight in my part of the terminal.

I don't get it -- if you hear that the flight to Tampa is offering $500 for people getting bumped and they're only offering $200 for your flight, why would you go for it, having heard that if you all wait, they'll be willing to go up to $500?


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 12-21-07 11:17 PM
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Hey, the site's back!

Do airlines still do the dollar-value vouchers? I've only flown Southwest recently, which just offers a free flight.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 12-21-07 11:19 PM
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Because if you wait, someone else might get the $200 and you'd get nothing. Seems simple enough.

Any idea why capacity's down? Are the airlines selling off their planes to pay their debts or something?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-21-07 11:20 PM
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Like mrh, I basically only fly Southwest, and I haven't flown at all since March, so I'm not very familiar with conditions out there in legacy-airline land.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-21-07 11:21 PM
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9 - Which is why it's a prisoner's dilemma! People need to coordinate about this shit.

The main reason I've heard for reduced domestic capacity is that airlines have found they can make a lot more money by moving their big planes to international routes and either eliminating those domestic routes or replacing the big planes they used to fly on those routes with commuter jets.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 12-21-07 11:23 PM
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On a similar vein, my apartment complex recently resurfaced the parking lot, which obscured all of the parking lines. In this section next to my building, where there was previously six spots, after the surfacing seven people started parking there most of the time. Yet when they came back around again to repaint the lines, they only painted six parking spots. Ugh! There isn't enough parking next to my building! Those idiots!


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 12-21-07 11:27 PM
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Which is why it's a prisoner's dilemma! People need to coordinate about this shit.

Meh, I don't particularly care if some random person gets a smaller windfall than they could have possibly gotten if they acted more strategically. They're still better off, after all.

The main reason I've heard for reduced domestic capacity is that airlines have found they can make a lot more money by moving their big planes to international routes and either eliminating those domestic routes or replacing the big planes they used to fly on those routes with commuter jets.

Interesting. Since Southwest only flies one kind of plane and only flies domestically, this hasn't affected me at all.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-21-07 11:28 PM
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People need to coordinate about this shit.

But if they coordinated enough to raise the amount, how would the group decide who gets the windfall?


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 12-21-07 11:34 PM
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Isn't this a supply-auction game, rather than a prisoner's dilemma?


Posted by: Michael Vanderwheel, B.A. | Link to this comment | 12-21-07 11:40 PM
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You are in effect advocating people form an auction ring in which for example all the local antique dealers agree not to bid against each other at estate sales and then hold a second private auction among themselves splitting the profit. Dutch auctions make this harder as there is no way to outbid non-ring members. The airline procedure of offering increasing amounts until someone accepts is effectively a Dutch auction making collusion difficult (which is good as such collusion is anti-social).


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 12:11 AM
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I accuse James B. Shearer of colluding with the Voluntary Exchange Witch!


Posted by: minneapolitan | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 5:21 AM
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As many of the major airlines went through bankruptcy over the last few years, they reduced capacity and eliminated marginal flights. Lower capacity and full flights have given them more pricing power.

Southwest...this hasn't affected me at all

Having recently priced flights across a few different airlines, I don't think this is true. Southwest is up too.


Posted by: spaz | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 6:10 AM
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I volunteer fairly often, but never for less than a free ticket. I probably average one a year. That is, usually the volunteering is for naught: they'll get 5 people, but because of no-shows, will need 2 or less. But you have to hang around the gate until the bitter end to find out.

I had one last year, though, where I volunteered from a flight from Cleveland to Thurgood Marshall, and got (a) a free ticket and (b) a flight from Cleveland to National that got me home an hour earlier. I'd've taken that deal for lesser values of (a).


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 6:37 AM
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You know what airline related failure of social organization bugs me? If everybody waiting at the baggage carousels stepped back two steps, there would be plenty of room for everyone and people could step forward in a civilized manner and claim their bag when it came down the way. No, though, everybody has to cram right up in against the thing -- with their carry-ons at their feet taking up even more room -- leaving people who aren't as pushy/jerky to have to shoulder their way in to grasp desperately at their luggage.

I only fly smaller airlines domestically, pretty much, and they never seem to be overbooked. Not sure why that is.

In other news, Midwest Airlines is so much better than any other airline (unless you regularly get upgraded) that it's ridiculous.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 7:58 AM
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I know! That drives me out of my mind. I wish airports would paint a line around the baggage carousels. Some jackasses would no doubt stand inside it, but I think many people would get the concept.

When you people finally elect me your Exalted and All-Powerful-But-Extremely-Benevolent Premier-for-Life, I'll take care of these things.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 8:14 AM
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22

What's the relevance of the DMV?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 9:30 AM
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or replacing the big planes they used to fly on those routes with commuter jets.

Yeah, a lot of my recent flights have been on dinky puddle-jumpers.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 9:36 AM
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I read 19 and thought, "Where the hell is Thurgood Marshall Airport?" Then I realized it serves my city.

But nobody calls it that. Renaming the airport after Justice Marshall was obviously less objectionable than sticking "Reagan" in front of National's name, but in a way it was even dumber. "Reagan" has fewer syllables than "National", at least. Saying "Marshall" by itself isn't viable, since the name could also refer to a famous area high school or a discount clothing chain. So they're asking people to say the drawn-out "Thurgood Marshall" instead of the short, percussive "BWI". The fools!


Posted by: Tom | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 10:06 AM
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Southwest is up too.

Yes, they are, and I'm actually not flying Southwest to UnfoggeDCon because they're not necessarily any cheaper anymore. It's not because of the specific reason Becks gave (shifting larger planes to international flights), though.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 12:46 PM
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Yes, they are, and I'm actually not flying Southwest to UnfoggeDCon because they're not necessarily any cheaper anymore. It's not because of the specific reason Becks gave (shifting larger planes to international flights), though.

Did the fuel hedges finally run out?


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 12:49 PM
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I think so.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 1:04 PM
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Sifu @ 20 In other news, Midwest Airlines is so much better than any other airline (unless you regularly get upgraded) that it's ridiculous.

True dat. I was in Boston in Feb. '03 for a con (Boskone/Snowcone) and we were supposed to fly out at 6p Monday. But the blizzard heading up the coast made it clear that wasn't going to happen. We went to Logan early, hoping to catch the 11.30a flight, though the reservation bunnies said it was full. The terminal looked like refugee central, with long lines everywhere except the Midwest counter. We walked up and said, "We're supposed to be on that flight you have marked as cancelled. Can we catch that one there?" And the nice gentleman at the counter said sure, no problem, and booked us on it. We celebrated with bloody Marys (for the ladies) and Sam Adams (por moi) for breakfast.

It turned out that someone looked at the weather, and, anticipating a scene not unlike the US Embassy in Saigon (but with bulkier clothing), had ordered a larger jet sent for that trip. Midwest rocks. Two across seating, and the cookies. Ummm, cookies. Sadly, only regular chocolate chip, not bacon chocolate chip yet, but one can always hope.


Posted by: Dr Paisley | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 7:06 PM
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28: ohh, those seats. Ohh, those fresh-baked cookies. They also -- and how random is this -- are by far the best airline to fly if you're travelling with pets. They have a special pet compartment (heated and pressurized), and a pet frequent flyer program. So great.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 7:10 PM
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30

Sifu is one of the few, proud members of the Canine Mile High Club.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 8:20 PM
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Oh, sure, because I bring your bestiality to light in my poetry you have to resort to this sort of slander. I'll have you know I own cats.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 8:23 PM
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Mrowr!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 8:26 PM
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24 -- I realize that I'm a little ahead of the curve on the airport formerly simply known as BWI. There are fewer syllables in Thur-good Mar-shall than Be Dub-el-you Eye.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 8:32 PM
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Not if you pronounce it "bwee."


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 8:33 PM
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31: Face it, Sifu. You really screwed the pooch with that limerick.

32: Easy boy.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 8:34 PM
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And the man was a giant of our time. Unlike pretenders past and present.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 12-22-07 8:34 PM
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37

everytime i drink pepsi i have hives
either i'm too sensitive or it's poisonous
same thing with coke
pespi was a nice sounding typo i read somewhere


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 12-23-07 9:22 AM
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Reading this thread from the bottom up, I had to figure out who was "a giant of our time:" Dylan as usual? Bob Dole?. Then it clicked: Thurgood Marshall. Hell yes!


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 12-23-07 9:36 AM
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Seconded on 38. Gotta love Thurgood.

The limerick in 37 doesn't scan very well though.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 12-23-07 11:40 AM
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