Re: Ask The Mineshaft: Dental Dame Edition

1

He is a weenie about his weener.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:25 AM
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2

He's a weenie.

But wouldn't it get in your own way?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:26 AM
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3

I am struggling with the words.

If he freaked out, he is a weenie.

If he said he would prefer you not to wear it, no big deal.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:27 AM
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4

Totally depends on the nature of the retainer, but my sympathies, based on my recollection of having one, are with the guy.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:27 AM
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5

It is all in the nature of the discussion.

"I would prefer you to not wear your big thick glasses while we get it on."

or

"I would prefer you not to put your zit cream on your face before we make sexy time."


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:29 AM
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4 gets it right, but not completely. I would not be comfortable with the sight of such a thing, its various pointy metal parts being unknown to me. But then again, he should trust that you know what you're doing.

"I wear a retainer to bed and therefore must wear one when having sex" - this bespeaks an overly literal use of the word "bed". Shouldn't it be "I wear a retainer to sleep"? Not "I wear a retainer whenever I am in a bed".


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:29 AM
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7

My retainer was just a clear plastic mold around my upper teeth. If it's this kind, he's a big weenie.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:30 AM
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8

3 gets it right.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:30 AM
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9

Do we need mo' better cloaking technology or am I misremembering? I thought Becks had a retainer.

I'm with LB and the guy,for LB reasons.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:30 AM
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10

Yeah, 4 is right. He's not being a weenie. In fact, wtf!


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:31 AM
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11

Oh, mine had wires and stuff -- uncomfortable to have in the mouth, and certainly looked as if it might have had sharp bits.

And then there was the one with the wires projecting out of the mouth, and attached to a big elastic band around the head. Hopefully we're not talking about that kind.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:32 AM
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12

In fact, wtf!

This was my reaction, as well. Get that thing out of there!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:33 AM
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13

9 - I don't have a retainer. This was not written by me.

I do have a mouthguard I'm supposed to wear to keep myself from grinding my teeth at night but I don't wear it nearly as often as I should and there's no way I could kiss or do anything else with it in. Drool on a guy, maybe.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:33 AM
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14

The retainers I had were big plastic molds that fit over my teeth. The metal ones might look scarier, but I'm trying to figure out how they're scarier than actual teeth.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:34 AM
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15

11: If it is that kind, I have third-party knowledge that the concern is a real one.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:35 AM
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16

The metal ones might look scarier, but I'm trying to figure out how they're scarier than actual teeth.

Not hard to figure out. You can tell if you're biting something with your actual teeth because they have nerves.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:35 AM
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17

When I am an old lady and have to wear dentures, I wonder how I will resolve that similar dilemma:)


Posted by: Mary Jo Koch | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:35 AM
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18

13: I was funnin'.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:36 AM
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19

I really don't know why one would enjoy wearing a retainer while giving a blowjob. Surely this is not an eight-hour blowjob, and therefore a serious loss of possible teeth-straightening time?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:37 AM
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20

re: 14

Because they can be sharp? And have places that sensitive bits of skin can get caught? [I basing this on having kissed people who wore 'em].

I'm wtf'ing at the question even being asked.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:37 AM
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21

Cala is right. Most retainers these days, my own past one included, are just plastic teeth shields. The objections, on a guy's part, are not based at all in squeamishness about safety, but some dumb aesthetic rubric. A plastic retainer is something of a condom for teeth.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:37 AM
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22

they're scarier than actual teeth.

It's been a long time, and I may be conflating the retainer with the braces that preceded it, but I'm remembering actual sharp edges -- like, when you cut a wire with a wire cutter, the end of the piece of wire. I was supposed to put wax, I think, on the sharp bits to protect my mouth, but it always came off and I had sharp things poking my gums and cheeks all the time.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:38 AM
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23

21 gets it wrong. The question is pretty clear that he is motivated by fear.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:38 AM
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24

16: Teeth nerves are not on the surface. But we're not talking metal caps, just a wire that runs along the outside of the teeth. You don't bite with the front of your tooth.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:38 AM
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16 is dumb. i can tell if i'm holding something even if i have a glove on.

also, though, AWB is technically right. There's no potential risk to the teeth by taking it out. But why not take a dental stand, I say.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:38 AM
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26

And then there was the one with the wires projecting out of the mouth, and attached to a big elastic band around the head. Hopefully we're not talking about that kind.

Hott!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:39 AM
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27

23 i don't know that "freaked out" necessarily suggest fear or the offense of one's precious aesthetic sensibilities. But even if he is motivated by fear, he is wrongly so. The only defensible objection is aesthetic, in which case I see no reason to not take a stand.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:40 AM
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28

22 to 25.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:40 AM
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29

22: Exactly. I knew someone who got `hooked' on one of those, and it didn't sound like any fun at all. Especially the wait for EMT's, and ensuing embarassment, once they figured out they couldn't seem to unhook him.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:40 AM
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21 is bollocks. I still see people wearing metal retainers. Any kind of 'hardware' is a possible hazard.

And sure, she could take a stand, but it would be a fucking stupid one.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:40 AM
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31

I've heard similar stories to 29.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:41 AM
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32

re 29 ... come to think of it, that was braces, and more particularly the little hooks for rubber bands on braces. Ow.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:41 AM
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33

i don't know that "freaked out" necessarily suggest fear or the offense of one's precious aesthetic sensibilities.

"weenie" suggests fear.

The only defensible objection is aesthetic, in which case I see no reason to not take a stand.

Assumes facts not in evidence. Those facts being that the dental equipment does not involve sharp things.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:41 AM
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34

22: Braces had wax, but on the retainers I've seen, they're either plastic molds of the teeth, or a piece of wire where the ends run into molded plastic. No sharp bits, and nothing that would make it more likely to bite anything.

I used to play a clarinet while wearing a retainer and so I suspect there's not enough sensation lost to be dangerous.

In any case, 19 and the second half of 6 gets it exactly right.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:42 AM
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35

At the risk of grossing people way out, I don't think this is very different from the Instead problem. Instead markets itself as a menstrual cup that can be worn during intercourse without being noticed. It's theoretically nice to be able to have clean sex all month long, but, well, it can be felt by the guy. It's not painful, just weird. And every time I've tried to get away with it, I've been told, "Please, I don't care, just take the thing out. It is weird." Not an aesthetic thing; it's just weird.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:42 AM
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36

Even if the dental apparatus doesn't involve sharp stuff, I see no reason to take a stand other than the desire to be a total shit about it.

No everyone's anxieties are 100% rational, but there's no reason to take a stand and deliberately do something that makes the other person anxious -- when you don't have to -- except if you're a fucking shitebag.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:44 AM
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37

in which case I see no reason to not take a stand.

This seems like insisting on some sort of sexual practice that one's partner doesn't enjoy. Which seems weird, but, hey, different strokes. Maybe it's some sort of punishment blowjob.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:44 AM
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38

But weenie is the askers' term. S/He may be willing to assume he is motivated by fear, but I'm saying that's too generous. Or, alternatively, that the fear is insufficiently grounded.

But, Ok, I guess it's possible that the retainer is not a plastic shield, although I find that unlikely in quick consult with a hygienist friend. To the extent that a piece of metal os the problem, I ask is this sufficient ground to ask someone to take out a lip or tongue piercing before a bj?


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:44 AM
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39

I am with Tweety in 26. If this guy weren't such a weenie, he'd request that she wear even more elaborate dental equipment.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:45 AM
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40

To the extent that a piece of metal os the problem

SHARP piece of metal.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:45 AM
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41

My standards of vanity are way higher than this person's. I can't fathom wanting to wear the retainer while I get my lascivious on.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:46 AM
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42

re: 38

Basically, who gives a shit if the fear is 100% grounded? There's certainly some grounds for it, and even if those grounds aren't 100% convincing, I refer you to 'taking and stand and shitebaggery thereof' above.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:46 AM
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43

36 is, however, completely correct (and the post says she's willing to abide by his request.)


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:46 AM
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44

to clarify, my suggestion that one 'take a stand' was intended to valence in the direction of being firmly committed to declaring the guy a weenie. Take it out, don't, whatever, the asker doesn't care her/himself.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:47 AM
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45

I'm with the guy. So what if it's "just" some plastic prosthetic device? Jeezameezus. Take the fucking thing out before you get hot and heavy.

(Yes, sure, once in a blue moon you'll be all prepped for bed, with retainer and zit cream and unflattering jammies and wool socks and hair set* and the like, and you'll still end up getting it on, zit cream, retainer and all. But as a general rule? Do you also insist on wearing your glasses during sex?)

*If you're, like, my grandmother.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:47 AM
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46

Plus, what 41 said.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:47 AM
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47

This is also an area in which I'm willing to give someone a fair amount of slack for irrational nervousness. Who wants to have sex if they're afraid that their genitalia are suddenly going to get caught on something sharp (no links, apo)? Even if it's an irrationally illfounded fear, it seems worth catering to.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:48 AM
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48

38b: They have tongue jewlry with built in vibrators --- would you really ask someone to take it out after they've gone to all that effort for you?

I guess if it really weirded you out --- but that stuff is a pain in the ass to put back sometimes. So not really the same, no.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:48 AM
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49

The use of the word "weenie" by the asker makes me think this is either just felicitous phrasing, or she doesn't think much of him for other reasons. Which is cool with me, btw. But someone who is otherwise not a weenie who asks for retainer-removal would not therefore become a weenie.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:48 AM
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50

38: A tongue or lip piercing might close up in the time they have sex, depending on how recent the piercing is. A retainer can go in and out easily.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:48 AM
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51

Multiply pwned.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:48 AM
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52

So what if it's "just" plastic. Plastic is still harder and possibly sharper than mouth, isn't it? And don't all retainers have a metal part that goes over the teeth to hold it in place? My own retainer is twenty years in the past, so I could be wrong. But I confess to being mystified by those who don't see problem with the retainer. Isn't there some space between the retainer and the roof of the mouth? What if he comes in her mouth? Doesn't the retainer make that more complicated and decidedly less pleasant for her?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:48 AM
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53

none of the guys I've been with have objected to kissing or having me go down on them while I'm wearing it

excerpted, suggests that this was must have been the very daintiest and/or most rounded of retainers ever, rather than the sharp wiry model. Either that or all her previous beaux have been from Hartlepool or something.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:50 AM
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54

I wear my glasses during sex (assuming I've taken out my contact lenses) because otherwise I cannot see the other person at all.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:51 AM
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55

re: 53

One of those hard northern places where they wear Ben Sherman shirts in 40-below weather, yeah.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:51 AM
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56

This thread isn't complete without one of Lisa Simpson's orthodontist's cautionary slides, but my google-fu is waning.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:51 AM
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57

53, good point.

Therefore the "weenie" implies that he is more than usually unwary of the unknown.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:52 AM
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58

S/He doesn't give a shit about taking it out or not, just about whether the partner is being dumb. The ins and outs of why the blower herself might want to take it out seem beyond the purview of the questions. There's fairly scant evidence for character assessment on the part of the receiver, I concede, but if I have this detail in concert with many others about a person, I still put it int he weenie column.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:52 AM
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59

52: No metal bits on my retainer at all, and nothing sharper than my teeth. New retainers fit just over the teeth, like a closely fitted mouthguard. I could play my clarinet in mine with no damage to my own mouth tissues.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:53 AM
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60

What if he comes in her mouth?

Exactly. And also, do they not make out during sex? Retainer-making-out can't possibly be that fun.

I'm with ttaM on this one. If taking a stance here means doing something that frightens your partner and does not even increase your pleasure, why would you do it? If she could only get off with her retainer in, or something like that, a crazy auto-retainer-fetish, I'd defend her adamantly.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:53 AM
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61

"unwary" s/b "wary"


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:55 AM
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62

Call me Mr Kinky Person here, but could she try not biting him? Even god's own natural teeth can hurt like merry hell, I am told.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:55 AM
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63

45: Do you also insist on wearing your glasses during sex?

Hey, hey, hey. That would be Totally Different.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:55 AM
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64

especially if they are filed to points.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:56 AM
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65

Do you also insist on wearing your glasses during sex?

How else are you supposed to see everyone, especially in a large room/bed?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:57 AM
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66

her previous beaux have been from Hartlepool

Or convicts, maybe. Fear of point metal bits might be part of normal sexual practice, according to Oz.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:57 AM
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67

Yeah, see, 65 is totally right.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:59 AM
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68

American English suffers from a terrible poverty of place names that connote personality types. There are some that add emphasis in context, but nothing that tells you all you need to know, all by itself.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 10:59 AM
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69

Or, following on 66, maybe the sexually inexpierenced or those in the midst of a drought. There have definitely been times when I would have risked sharp pointy metal bits.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:00 AM
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70

That thing looks pretty dangerous to me.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:01 AM
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71

70: I had one of those, almost exactly. Sucked bigtime.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:02 AM
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72

68: It's more that they are all localized. The UK has a fairly consistent national set, from what I can see. Everywhere in North America seems to have it's own versions.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:02 AM
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73

I had one of those, almost exactly. Sucked bigtime.

So your boyfriends didn't mind, then.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:03 AM
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74

American English suffers from a terrible poverty of place names that connote personality types. There are some that add emphasis in context, but nothing that tells you all you need to know, all by itself.

We have local ones, since the country is so big. I believe your state's equivalent would be "Barstow", although that might not be used by people in the BayArea.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:04 AM
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75

In honor of apo.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:06 AM
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76

Around hereparts, women from San Marcos have quite the reputation.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:07 AM
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77

it would make me happy if you all say he's a weenie about his weener.

I think the thing that catches me up about this is that one would like to reserve the right to be a weenie about one's genitals, howsoever irrational that weeniness might be.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:08 AM
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78

S/He doesn't give a shit about taking it out or not, just about whether the partner is being dumb.

Yeah, this seems accurate. And not a terribly promising sign for the relationship.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:08 AM
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79

From 75: Puss coming out of cock = epic fail


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:09 AM
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80

This is such a dumb thread.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:10 AM
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81

77, 78: Yep.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:10 AM
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82

78: also the mocking tone of "precious goods".


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:11 AM
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83

He is a weenie about his weener.


Posted by: Jesurgislac | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:14 AM
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84

80 makes a good point.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:15 AM
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85

We should consult a ounie board.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:16 AM
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86

Would it be so difficult for her just to have all of her former lovers come by and reassure the BF that her retainer jobs were very pleasurable for them? Perhaps some of the better-endowed could even display their unharmed members, as a sort of show of good faith.

She could even demonstrate!


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:16 AM
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87

So your boyfriends didn't mind, then.

Trying to conduct business while reading this comment was a bad idea.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:19 AM
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88

70 is pretty good but I want the one where her uncorrected teeth pop through her face.


Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:21 AM
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89

Trying to conduct business while reading this comment was a bad idea.

Indeed. But maybe my co-workers just think I find union-busting really funny.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:22 AM
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90

Indeed. But maybe my co-workers just think I find union-busting really funny.

Yes, but this does not work as well when you have just have just been told, "he is having sex with my sister!!!"


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:24 AM
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91

90: tell her to take that damn thing out of her mouth and maybe they can reconcile.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:29 AM
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92

Is self-reporting of one's own mental states more or less reliable when one is drunk than when one is sober?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:48 AM
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93

Does the self report consist of the words: "OMG, I am soooooo drunk!"? Then probably.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:50 AM
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94

92: I would think likely to be slightly more exaggerated quantitatively, but more accurate qualitatively.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:57 AM
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95

No, it consists of one's emotions and attitudes.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:58 AM
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96

Does the self report consist of the words: "OMG, I am soooooo drunk!"? Then probably.

I was trying to figure out how to take it when LB told me, "OMG, I am sooooo drunk, but I want to talk with you more tonight!"


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:58 AM
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97

Does the self report consist of the words: "OMG, I am soooooo drunk!"? Then probably.

By contrast, if the self-report consists of "I luuufff you guyzz sooo much," then take it with a grain of salt.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:58 AM
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98

I would say more likely to be an accurate representation of one's immediate emotions -- that is, less likely to be intentionally disingenous -- but probably not all that accurate a representation of one's feelings when sober.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:59 AM
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99

I agree with 94.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:59 AM
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100

94 seems right.

My wife can determine the truth-value of a statement like 93 based on the percentage of curse words in any given statement. Anything over 50%, and she's driving home.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 11:59 AM
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101

FE:
"Fuck, am I drunk." Probably actually OK to drive.

"Holy Christ, am I fucking drunk. Shit." She gets the keys.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:01 PM
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102

I would think likely to be slightly more exaggerated quantitatively, but more accurate qualitatively.

So how do you interpret, "OMG, I am soooo drunk, I've NEVER done this before!"?


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:02 PM
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92: I would think likely to be slightly more exaggerated quantitatively, but more accurate qualitatively.

In the words of Val Kilmer in Tombstone: "in vino veritas."

Also, while the self-reporting of mental and emotional states is probably more accurate when drunk, mental and emotional states when drunk are not the same as when sober.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:02 PM
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104

Which is the more important mental state? This is a dumb authenticity question, but if I'm happy while sober, but sad when drunk, am I happy or sad?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:06 PM
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105

Depends on how often you're sober.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:09 PM
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106

Also, while the self-reporting of mental and emotional states is probably more accurate when drunk, mental and emotional states when drunk are not the same as when sober.

True, though to the extent Cala mentioned attitudes I'm inclined to think those don't vary too much from sober to drunk. Just the willingness to admit them.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:10 PM
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107

This thread is disquieting. I am torn between dismay at the thought of wearing a dental device while having any form of sexual contact and dismay at the realization that I, er, always wear my glasses except when I'm swimming, washing or actually asleep. And thus, yes, tend to wear them in intimate moments. I wasn't even aware that this was a faux pas, since no one has ever complained. Also, my vision is so bad that I get dizzy without glasses. And also, I've gone to a great deal of trouble to acquire forbidding, artily orthopedic glasses, and I feel much more naked without them than when I am actually naked. Indeed, I have a suspicion that I look better with them than without them.

Now that I think about it, I would feel so vulnerable without glasses that it would totally change the dynamic of any kind of sex--it would totally be all about the helplessness, which might be all hott for some people but isn't for me. And it would be such a dorky kind of helplessness, at that.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:10 PM
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108

And even regardless of relative time, I'd say emotions you feel sober are more 'yours' than those you feel drunk. (This is more persuasive with a more uniform drug. The calmness you feel after a couple of Valium isn't, IMO, a quality of your mind in any non-immediate sense.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:11 PM
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In the words of Val Kilmer in Tombstone: "in vino veritas."

I always wondered who the original cite for that was, thanks.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:13 PM
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104: If you are only sad when drunk then you are probably not secretly depressed. Alcohol being a depressant, it tends to make sad. (May mean it's worth giving sober thought to the things that depress you when drunk, but it doesn't mean your sober happiness is but an illusion. At least not any more than happiness by it's very nature is but an illusion... )


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:14 PM
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I was referring to taking out your contacts and putting in nighttime dorky glasses, not if you wear glasses all the time.

Every day glasses can be hot. (M/tch, I categorically deny that this is any reference to Kraabie's glasses or that I bought BR a pair just like them to wear.)


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:15 PM
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Not to get too personal, Frowner, but what about when the lights are off? I mean, presumably this happens at least sometimes. If your partner wakes you up in the middle of the night for teh sexx, do you actually grab your specs from the bedside table?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:16 PM
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Dude, if shivbunny put the moves on me once I have my dorky nighttime glasses on, he gets to reap the whirlwind of dorky sex.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:18 PM
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As far as I can see, the main problem with glasses during sex is keeping the damn things clean(ish)


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:19 PM
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the whirlwind of dorky sex.

I give it three days before there's a website with this as the title.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:19 PM
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also, 113? Hott.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:19 PM
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It seems obvious to say, but no one has so far - alcohol affects people very differently. For many (most?) it's sort of an emotion amplifier, related of course to its inhibition-lowering properties. Others go in a specific direction, elation or depression. For (certain) uptight people, the drunk state is more "honest," stripping away layers of semi-conscious artifice. For others, they just get fucked up, saying and doing things that really are out of character.

I wouldn't ever credit drunken behavior one way or the other, unless I already knew the person so well that the only specific new information was how that person is while drunk.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:21 PM
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One of the reasons this thread is so confusing is that there are (at least) two completely different devices called retainers. One is made completely out of plastic and is generally worn only at night to keep one's teeth in place; this is probably the type of retainer described in the post. The other has a plastic part fitted to the roof of the mouth and a wire going around the front of the teeth, and is worn all the time to actively correct some sort of serious orthodontic problem. This is the kind I had after I had my braces taken off, and while I used to worry that it would be a problem in romantic situations, once I got a girlfriend I discovered that for kissing, at least, it doesn't cause any noticeable issues. It's just sort of there. I never had the other sort of retainer, so I don't know how it would function in similar circumstances.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:23 PM
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Every day glasses can be hot.

My wife has total glasses envy - when I got a new pair recently, she was trying on frames in the store; plus, she encourages me to wear mine as much as practical (I generally prefer contacts for various reasons). Me, I have excellent vision envy. We hope that our daughter will end up with my constitution and her eyes and teeth. The jury is still out.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:23 PM
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Why, that's pretty personal indeed, J. May I call you J?

Theoretical answer: probably yes, glasses. Possibly no. Depends on the specific situation.

Nerd/geek/stay-up-late-reading answer: No matter how partnered I am, I have my own room. Because I am unspeakably dull, I feel that the opportunity to read in the middle of the night trumps almost all other opportunities. And having my own room helps me keep my mystery, don't you know.

Also, since I live in the provinces, rent is cheap such that a two-bedroom apartment is quite feasible.

I used to be a rude drunk; lately word has it that I am amiable and charming.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:25 PM
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112: I can't speak for Frowner, but my vision is bad enough that I reach for my glasses instinctively once my eyes are open. So I would be reaching for my glasses and turning on the light.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:26 PM
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Many wear prescriptionless glasses in order to look cool and sexy, but your wife's timidity leaves her uncool and sexless, like...... some kind of unspecified warm and ungendered thing. Poor thing!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:26 PM
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I'd say emotions you feel sober are more 'yours' than those you feel drunk

Men only allow themselves to have feelings when they are drunk. Or they're not real men. If country music lyrics are any guide, there are a few wonderful women that are like this too.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:26 PM
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I never had the other sort of retainer, so I don't know how it would function in similar circumstances.

Teo, I don't think it matters if the guy wears a retainer while recieving a blowjob.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:26 PM
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Teo, I don't think it matters if the guy wears a retainer while recieving a blowjob.

Heebie! Shame on your for picking on Teo! Now you have to show him why it doesnt matter.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:28 PM
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120 was in response to 112, you see.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:28 PM
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Frowner's reputed cut-off level is about two drinks higher than my maintenance dose. This is not in any way a criticism of Frowner, nor do I feel that it is a shameful confession. We must all be tolerant!

I can't testify as to Frowner's recent drunkenness, which I missed, but reports are generally favorable.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:29 PM
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I'm an affectless but handsy drunk.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:31 PM
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I don't seem to be able to get drunk any more. Once I've had enough alcohol to be intoxicated, I just get sleepy.

shivbunny is a talkative drunk. He gets very animated when he's had a few drinks, and is fun to be around as long as he then stops drinking, because then he turns into a pouty drunk.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:34 PM
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I'm a lousy drunk -- first voluble, then inappropriately affectionate ("Man, I love you guys"), and then just stumbly and sleepy. And after the third drink, the fourth through twelfth start all sounding like excellent ideas.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:38 PM
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No matter how partnered I am, I have my own room.

Your own bedroom?


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:38 PM
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120, 121: See, I'd put my bad vision up against yours any day of the week. But my result has been a superb ability to navigate and function (around my house, primarily) correctionless. I can get up in the middle of the night, help my daughter use the potty, put her back in bed, turn on music for her, and go to the bathroom myself, all without lights (except streetlights through heavy curtains) or glasses.

As for the during-sex thing, maybe it's my years of near-exclusive contacts-wearing, but I would feel uncomfortable doing anything... non-vanilla with glasses on. They get knocked around, or poke my wife, or press against my face. Better to be blurry.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:42 PM
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I'm obsessive about cleaning my glasses. I carry lens cloths with me everywhere. I can't even wear my glasses for making out because they'll get smudged and I'll be so distracted by that it will take me out of the moment. I'd rather be blind.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:42 PM
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131: Yes. Only the direst economic exigencies could force me to share a room. Share a room? Not have your own closet? Not be able to keep the light on when you want it on? Get waked at random times? Deal with snoring? Not have your own blankets? Have to bicker about tidiness and all that? Seriously, I'm not going to live more uncomfortably than I did when I was twelve.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:43 PM
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I can see having an extra room, just not sleeping alone in it, mostly.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:44 PM
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133 gets it right. What do you need to see clearly anyway?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:45 PM
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And after the third drink, the fourth through twelfth start all sounding like excellent ideas.

Yes. But I think this is typical.

Now that I think about it, my drunken personality is probably very like my commenter personality. More foul language, more voluble, and a bit more belligerent (not physically). I've always preferred that my wife not show up around here, but she'd probably recognize this personality anyway.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:46 PM
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132: I believe you. And I could probably do all of those things; I can find my glasses if I've forgotten where I've put them. But I really like seeing, and don't mind smudges much.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:47 PM
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137: combine the two, and you have ULTIMATE JROTH!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:47 PM
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My bad, old GF and I shared a bedroom, but not beds. Worst of both worlds, I suppose. But she liked a futon and, despite diminutive stature, was a total bed hog. So I had my own twin mattress-and-boxspring for after she fell asleep. It seems like one of those foreshadowy things, but it did make sense at the time....


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:48 PM
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Worst of both worlds, I suppose.

Sounds like.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:49 PM
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132: The thing is, I get dizzy. It's even gotten so that I can't swim as well any more, because I can't orient myself visually due to the blurriness of my surroundings...that is, I can swim laps and all that, but I feel as though the pool is far more turbulent than it really is, and it gets a bit nerve-wracking.

Has anyone ever read Donoso's novel A House in the Country? The scene where the little girl's glasses are broken--that was really resonant for me in my teens. Or Lord of the Flies, not a happy novel-with-glasses-wearing.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:49 PM
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If your partner wakes you up in the middle of the night for teh sexx, do you actually grab your specs from the bedside table?

Funny.

I expect being farsighted might affect your decision in this regard.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:50 PM
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139: A little googling would probably reveal such a thing. Indeed, I left a couple super-dickish comments elsewhere about the Barry Bonds thing*; the host appreciated that I basically came back first thing next morning to apologize.

Since my last office job had Beer Fridays, I can't think of anyone who would know me well, but never have seen me while drinking. That's an, um, interesting thought (to me, anyway).

* As opposed to the moderately-dickish comments I probably made here earlier that day....


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:53 PM
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I expect being farsighted might affect your decision in this regard.

Wow. Good point. I can't fathom far-sightedness.

142: You mentioned the dizziness; I wonder why it's so bad. I suppose I now have something about my poor vision to be thankful for.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:55 PM
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141: To be honest, we had a very nice ritual: we'd hang out together in her bed until she fell asleep, then I'd go read in my comfy bed for a bit as the dog curled up at my feet.

It was the both-awake times that were bad....


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 12:57 PM
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Oddly or no, I've found myself in the last year or so actively trying to function (around the house) without corrective lenses. For all of 10 minutes, I mean. It's not terribly difficult, and contributes to [cliche alert] increased sensory awareness in other respects.

Feeling unable to see makes one fearful, obviously ... yet honestly, there is no reason I can't take a shower without lenses. More disconcerting than you'd think.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:06 PM
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145: As far as I can tell, the dizziness occurs because I am so nearsighted (and nearsighted in such a way--I have a very peculiar prescription) that my depth perception is pretty much scuppered.

I always have to get the absolutely most expensive lenses and even then they end up quite thick. Also that stupid smudgy anti-glare coating so that people can see my eyes and therefore be fooled into believing me trustworthy and warm. At the moment, I have a pair of blocky vintage early-eighties frames that are marginally too hip for the room (or perhaps merely hideous).


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:07 PM
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Scuppered!


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:15 PM
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If I were a guy, I would ask you to take it out. This thread is making my day. My daughters would kick me out before talking about retainers and blowjobs. 62 year olds don't know about blowjobs; they were invented after they became too old for stopped having sex:) I am extremely nearsighted and love to leave my glasses off and see my messy house in a lovely impressionistic blur.


Posted by: Mary Joan Koch | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:15 PM
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there is no reason I can't take a shower without lenses

My wife thinks it's funny that I shower without switching on the light (whether day or night). But what additional information would I be gaining? I know where everything is by proprioception anyway.

148: That just sucks. I do find it very disorienting to go outside correctionless, but around the house it's unbothersome. Actually, sometimes I'll go to do some task and realize that I should have just grabbed my specs, as I try to operate something with my nose 2" from it.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:17 PM
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I once had a conversation with a girl who told me `my mom taught me everything I know about blow jobs.' She really didn't mean it quite the way it came out.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:19 PM
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If your partner wakes you up in the middle of the night for teh sexx

You play the McEnroe clip and go back to sleep. Jesus.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:19 PM
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ogged is objectively on glue. again.

middle-of-the-night sleepy sex is excellent.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:20 PM
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He's just romantic like that, soup.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:22 PM
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I recently discovered that while I have no trouble reading books without my contacts in, reading on a computer without them is well-nigh impossible.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:23 PM
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154 gets is so, so right.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:24 PM
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Look, if you both find yourself awake at the same time in the middle of the night, then sure, but if somebody actually wakes me up for sex? I need my rest, man.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:26 PM
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My 8-month-old grandson loves to grab my glasses. I pry them out of his hands because they cost too much. I always wonder if I could take the elevator downstairs, walk 10 blocks to Penn Station, find the right Long Island Railroad train, find and stumble down the stairs after I get off the train, recognize my husband's car when he picks me up, figure out how to open the car door, avoiding breaking my leg on the front step, or tripping over our cat who loves to weave between my legs

I could probably make it. As a teenager, I was far too vain to wear my glasses anywhere outside the classroom. Perhaps my dismal social life could be attributed to not noticing anyone noticing me and coming across as a dreadful snob. I graduated from my Catholic high school in the local cathedral. I had to memorize the number of steps up to the altar.

I easily navigate around the house in the dark and recognize it is my husband in my bed.


Posted by: Mary Joan Koch | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:26 PM
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158: What if she doesn't wake you up first?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:27 PM
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159c: As opposed to...


Posted by: Sharkey | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:28 PM
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What if she doesn't wake you up first?

Rape.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:32 PM
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In fairness, we're so far out on a hypothetical with ogged here....


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:32 PM
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I always wonder if I could take the elevator downstairs, walk 10 blocks to Penn Station, find the right Long Island Railroad train, find and stumble down the stairs after I get off the train, recognize my husband's car when he picks me up, figure out how to open the car door, avoiding breaking my leg on the front step, or tripping over our cat who loves to weave between my legs

I have occasional fears along the lines of "what if I'm biking and have contact problems?" but it's so far from ever having happened that I don't sweat it.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:34 PM
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My oldest daughter complained (teased) that I had talked so much about sex that she didn't want to think about it until she was 30. The youngest, then 6, loved -the -condom -on -a- banana demonstration for her older sisters. I have useful tips onl how to prepare three and five year olds for home births.

Perhaps I overcompensated:) My parents didn't tell me anything about sex. I developed research skills almost as good as Katherine's devouring local libraries for clues. You simply have no idea how challenging that was in the mid-1950s.


Posted by: Mary Joan Koch | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:34 PM
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It depends on how sleepy I am.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:34 PM
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And even regardless of relative time, I'd say emotions you feel sober are more 'yours' than those you feel drunk.

Please, please, let this thread turn into a discussion of autonomy.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:35 PM
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I wouldn't be able to function outside without lenses. I don't think; at least, yes, I'd be counting steps. It'd only work for a very established routine. Certainly could never drive.

Showering in the dark is an intriguing idea, for some reason. The entire exercise (sans corrective lenses) reminds me of yoga: a slow down.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:37 PM
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The entire exercise (sans corrective lenses) reminds me of yoga: a slow down.

Absolutely no difference for me. Actually, if we had a modern shower, with a shelf at the proper height, I wouldn't even have to slightly-slowly reach for the soap. But otherwise, all the same.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:40 PM
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I only discuss autonomy when drunk.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:41 PM
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164: biking isn't such a big problem, I think. I used to carry extras for wilderness camping though. The only one that really worried me ever was that I would do a bit of solo kayaking on the exposed pacific. There are some fast (14 knot) rips etc, and without lenses I knew I couldn't find landmarks. I got paranoid about blow up doing me in not because I couldn't manage the water, but because I couldn't see where it was pushing me. I used to carry two backups (one on me, one in the boat) for that reason. It's the only thing that ever made me seriously consider surgery.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:41 PM
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Riding a bicycle with your eyes closed is really fun.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:41 PM
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What would all you blind people have done before modern optics? Soothsaying?


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:43 PM
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I only discuss anatomy when drunk.


Posted by: My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:45 PM
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I only cuss at manatees when drunk.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:46 PM
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I wouldn't even have to slightly-slowly reach for the soap. But otherwise, all the same.

Beautiful.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:47 PM
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Riding a bicycle with your eyes closed is really fun.

Especially on acid!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:51 PM
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My new glasses don't have the anti-glare coating, and I am so glad. I hate that stuff. It gets so smeary and scratched up and unpleasant.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:53 PM
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177: Especially if it's enough acid that you're not sure the bicycle is really there. Or that you are.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:53 PM
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179 and 177 get it exactly right.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:54 PM
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173: Died quickly of an avoidable cause, I expect. Run over by a speeding leopard on the veldt or something.

Merely by living, I degenerate the species!


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 1:56 PM
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Blacksmithing or needlework. Excepting signs and speed (so no hunting or gathering) nearsightedness is not that bad. Most people have very distinctive walks and motions, facial features do not convey that much extra information. On the other hand, lasses with glasses and not much else are nice.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 2:01 PM
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What would all you blind people have done before modern optics? Soothsaying?

David Landes makes an interesting point in one of his books (The Unbound Prometheus, I think) about the impact of the invention of corrective lenses on productivity. In economic terms, the biggest impact came not from giving distant vision to the myopic nerds, but from restoring the near-vision of farsighted artisans. Because almost everyone succumbs to presbyopia after the age of 40 or so, the invention of eyeglasses effectively doubled the productive lifespan of the most skilled craftsmen.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 2:12 PM
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facial features do not convey that much extra information

Huh. This is the only reason I can't bear to be without glasses -- seeing people's faces. I'm only moderately nearsighted, so I can practically get around fine without them as long as I don't need to read street signs or such. But I get paranoid talking to people where I can't read their facial expressions. (Come to think of it, I hate talking on the phone with anyone I don't know very very very well for similar reasons.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 2:15 PM
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facial features do not convey that much extra information

Not about identity, but otherwise sure they do.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 2:17 PM
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My oldest daughter complained (teased) that I had talked so much about sex that she didn't want to think about it until she was 30. The youngest, then 6, loved -the -condom -on -a- banana demonstration for her older sisters. I have useful tips onl how to prepare three and five year olds for home births.

Mary Jo and I were separated at birth.

Welcome Mary Jo. Welcome.

If you need to know anything about Nuva Rings, fallopian tubes, or sex ed, my 12 year old can tell you.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 2:33 PM
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talking to people

Try to arrange your day so you don't have to do this. You may find that you have warmer feelings for humanity generally as a side-effect.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 2:37 PM
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You know, I considered the possibility that maybe someone really would be so very myopic that they'd wear glasses during sex. And then I thought, oh come on, NO ONE is that nearsighted.

Just goes to show. Anyway, fine, wear your glasses during sex, weirdos.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 2:50 PM
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187:

Wouldnt this be nice.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 2:50 PM
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184: Yet you're fine with all your pretend internet friends. Interesting.

I don't know what I would have done before the invention of the corrective lens. Without my glasses, my focal point is about two inches, so I can't read without them. But had I been born before the invention of corrective lenses, I probably would have been illiterate.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 3:00 PM
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I have useful tips onl how to prepare three and five year olds for home births.

Call me old fashioned, but three year olds don't have the emotional maturity to raise a baby.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 3:04 PM
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Are we considering how much modern life also contributes to myopia? People I know who didn't read/watch tv much as kids seem to require glasses much less frequently than the rest of us.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 3:06 PM
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It may be that nearsightedness is beneficial, in that presbyopia is less harmful for the near-sighted.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 3:06 PM
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Are we considering how much modern life also contributes to myopia?

I have been considering this! Not with particularly interesting results, however.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 3:07 PM
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3 and 5 yr olds can handle home births just fine. Heck, let them cut the cord.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 3:07 PM
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192: I don't know how determinative reading/TV are. My sisters and I all read as kids. I have the worst vision at something like 'can you tell me what the top letter is/there's a chart there?'; my sister has perfect sight; another sister just needs glasses for driving; and the other wears contacts daily but has a weaker prescription than mine.

My eyes might be better had there been no books, but my anecdata suggest it's unlikely I would have had 20/20 sight.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 3:10 PM
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Look, if you both find yourself awake at the same time in the middle of the night, then sure, but if somebody actually wakes me up for sex? I need my rest, man.

Ogged wakes up hungry.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 3:13 PM
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I hate talking on the phone with anyone I don't know very very very well for similar reasons.

Yet another thing LB and I have in common.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 3:14 PM
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193: Out on the fucking veldt it helped to be able to distinguish lions from termite mounds. I couldn't do that without glasses.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 3:23 PM
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109: At Plato's Symposium 217e, Alcibiades mentions:

...to legomenon, "oinos aneu te paidôn kai meta paidôn ên alêthês"

the saying that "wine is truth whether the servants are absent or present"


The Bury and Dover commentaries have more detail for anyone interested (or even for anyone uninterested!)


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 3:28 PM
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201

199: Out on the fucking veldt most of us would be dead of old age, so it doesn't matter.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 3:29 PM
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202

201: Not so. Injury, yes, disease, yes, but you're not aging any slower than your savannah-dwelling ancestors.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 3:35 PM
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Given that reading by inadequate light has been shown to have no effect on sight, I'm very skeptical that any other common activity would, either.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 3:43 PM
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204

i have braces... so far, no complaints from wifey


Posted by: cleek | Link to this comment | 01- 7-08 7:23 PM
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205

People take their glasses off when they go to sleep?

Only time I don't wear glasses is in the showe.


Posted by: Martin Wisse | Link to this comment | 01- 8-08 12:34 AM
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206

You don't wear glasses in the shower? How do you see if you're clean?


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 01- 8-08 12:43 AM
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re: 202

Yeah, the oldest people in hunter gatherer communities are pretty damn old. And there are quite a lot of them, too.

It's one of those statistical things, isn't it. People assume that because the 'average lifespan' was (allegedly) 30 that that means there wasn't a lot of old people.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01- 8-08 12:46 AM
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207: na true. Once you get past the first few years of life, and assuming you don't do anything really risky and stupid like give birth, you can expect a reasonably long life as a hunter-gatherer. It's the infant and perinatal mortality that brings the averages down.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01- 8-08 4:00 AM
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re: 208

Once you get past the first few years of life, and assuming you don't do anything really risky and stupid like give birth, you can expect a reasonably long life as a hunter-gatherer. It's the infant and perinatal mortality that brings the averages down.

Which is exactly what I meant by "People assume that because the 'average lifespan' was (allegedly) 30 that that means there wasn't a lot of old people.", and was why I put 'average lifespan' in scare quotes.

Or am I not getting your point?


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01- 8-08 4:39 AM
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210

209: Yes! I was agreeing with you! And amplifying what you said!


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01- 8-08 10:41 AM
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211

"Na" looked like an unfamiliar negative -- was it a typo or a word I don't know?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01- 8-08 10:44 AM
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Yeah, I thought 'NA' was an unfamiliar abbreviation for 'not actually'. Sorry.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01- 8-08 10:48 AM
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213

Sorry, it's a colloquialism. (cf "True dat".)


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-10-08 10:54 AM
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