Re: What Lies Beneath

1

Well, Becks, shit like that is why I don't buy you lingerie any more.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 11:32 AM
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The end of the article is great, because as beautiful as lingerie can be, it's usually not on all that long.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 11:39 AM
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Didn't like your Christmas presents, did you?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 11:39 AM
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Isnt Becks-style all about a rejection of underwear?


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 11:39 AM
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will, you're doing that thing again.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 11:48 AM
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5:

trying to get people divorced?


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 11:49 AM
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Capitalizing your name.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 11:50 AM
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2: "Lingerie is best chosen for how it looks flying across the room." -- some old acquaintance of mine.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 11:56 AM
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I don't think I've ever dated anyone who acknowledged my underwear, or underwear in general, in the slightest. I've never been bought underwear. I've occasionally gone out of my way to wear cute underwear, but it has gone unnoticed.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 11:59 AM
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I've never been bought underwear, or flowers, or chocolates, except for one time, and I was all, "Really?" and he was all, "I figured you'd let me eat them."


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:01 PM
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Of the three, I hope he had bought chocolates. Though some flowers are tasty. Chives for instance.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:05 PM
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10: The flowers, or the underwear?


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:08 PM
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*sigh*


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:08 PM
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Things I can't find: The C++ Programming Language; my laptop charger.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:14 PM
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If you could get one of the items on this page in a floral pattern you'd have a trifecta.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:22 PM
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CHERRY Edible Briefs For Men - Who will have more fun with these edible undies -- you or your lover? Tie on these sexy (and tasty) briefs, and give your lover the pleasure of removing them with her teeth.

I'm not a dude, so I don't know, but doesn't this description sound... frightening?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:24 PM
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14: can any of us really find the C++ programming language, Ben? Or is it the journey that's important?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:26 PM
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16: Yes, that's right.


Posted by: Chris Conway | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:30 PM
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Things I can't find: a reason to believe; somebody to love.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:32 PM
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I think cute underwear can have a bigger impact in long-term relationships, when you tend to spend more time flopping around the house in various states of undress. When the hot gets heavy, there's no time to stop and stare.


Posted by: Chris Conway | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:32 PM
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Lingerie is a crappy gift. Buy her something she wants, and if you want to buy her lingerie, take her shopping and pick it out together.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:39 PM
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22

Buy her Le Creuset cookware. Le sexxy.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:45 PM
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21- That's true. Shopping for lingerie together is pretty hott.


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:45 PM
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Buy her Le Creuset cookware. Le sexxy.

And a mop. Chicks love that stuff.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:46 PM
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I can sort of see why the author of this article did it. It sounds like his girlfriend is "into" Parisian lingerie and dropped that as a hint. But, as he suggests, this is a risky request, and to me, it smacks of the sort of silly mind-reading people expect one other to do in relationships. Like, if you really really know me, you'll be able to buy me lingerie I like and it will prove you love me. (This is different, Will, from the kind of "mind-reading" you accused me of touting, in which someone actually tries to get to know your character.) And all that silly shit at the store, where he describes her skin as the color of the dawn sky on an autumn morning?

In my only actual long-term relationship, I suppose we weren't that different, in our way. He knew I was "into" fancy salts and spices, and that I like really good soap. But those were good things for him to buy for me because he was also into fancy salts and spices and good soap, so he knew what he was looking at. Another man might have run off to Bath & Body Works and gotten some raspberry shower gel and said, "Well, it ain't Irish Spring," and I would have probably felt disappointed about our lack of communication. But that's why you don't ask for things your partner doesn't know how to buy when you know perfectly well what you want.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:50 PM
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24: Don't make fun. The most romantic gifts I've ever gotten were a Le Creuset pot and some dishtowels and some socks. They were and are very special to me.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:50 PM
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Dude, I was at a friend's house last night and she had a new lime green Le Crueset skillet. It was so beautiful. I wanted to have its babies.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:51 PM
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Let me then speak for those who would love to be bought pricey flimsy unmentionables. Also, let me speak for (represent!) those women who have received compliments on their underthings from both occasional and longer-term lovers.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:52 PM
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Mine is the now-discontinued dark irony brown, cream on the inside. I love him.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:52 PM
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I lust after Le Creuset. Tis very pricey but so elegant.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:54 PM
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Shopping for lingerie together is pretty hott.

At the very least, simply receiving lingerie out of the blue can set up a weird dynamic whereby the woman (presumably) is thinking: Hm, what's being projected on to me here?

Unless the prospect has been discussed previously, however teasingly, it's kind of asking for trouble.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 12:54 PM
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26. I agree. Some of my favorite gifts were seemingly mundane. I would be thrilled to be bought good cookware. I'd be even happier to have a kitchen that has counter space.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 1:00 PM
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Don't make fun. The most romantic gifts I've ever gotten were a Le Creuset pot and some dishtowels and some socks

Truth be told, I got a large Le Creuset dutch oven for my most recent birthday, and I was pleased as could be. The year before that I got a standing mixer. The combination of being notoriously hard to buy gifts for and being a keen cook has pretty much guaranteed that I get only cooking-related presents. Not that I mind.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 1:01 PM
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For me it depends on the kind of flimsy unmentionables. If it's the sort that's meant to look nice flying across the room, go for it. If it's the sort that's meant to actually function as a bra, don't try for it because I'm picky about bras.

(Just thinking about raspberry soap from Bath & Body Works is making me itch.)

I once received a simple silk cami & shorts set that quickly became my favorite sleepthings because they were essentially just fabric upgrades of my usual cotton cami & shorts sleepwear.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 1:01 PM
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33. Comity!

Now how about them Patriots?


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 1:02 PM
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My roommates in Cleveland bought me a standing mixer for Christmas one year. That was when I vowed to fight for polygamous rights so that I could marry them and live with them forever.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 1:03 PM
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I got the brandnew and unreturnable silk cami and shorts set that was intended as a bridal present for a 5'1" friend. It was probably still a little big on me (it was way, way too bit for her), but I wore those things all the time.

But no, I would not expect someone else to get me The Ueberbrassiere That I Will Wear Everyday.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 1:05 PM
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38

Geez good thing I didn't bring those door prizes to uDCon


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 1:12 PM
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19: Find a dead dog lying by the highway in a ditch.
Poke the dog with a stick.
If you stand there long enough, the dog will get up and run.


Posted by: Zippy | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 1:15 PM
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I used to buy decorative, non-functional lingerie, but my experience has been similar to Cala and AWB: either it was on for too short of a time, or they didn't really notice. Special lingerie also made me feel like I was gift-wrapping myself. My current boyfriend prefers simple and naked, so I haven't done it in a while.

I have the same feeling about kitchen equipment that others were expressing about lingerie. Unless I ask for something specific, don't bother buying it, since it would probably be impossible for anyone to buy me something I didn't already have. I am a sucker for kitchen gadgets, though. After the last thread, I was actually considering whether or not I should try and find a popcorn popper.


Posted by: pasdquoi | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 1:22 PM
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People try to buy me kitchen gadgets, and I usually have a hard time being nice about them. Rice cooker, salad spinner, whipcream dispenser, coffee maker, I do not need you!

Until very recently, I had just one pot (a Le Creuset dutch oven) and one pan (a 10" Le Creuset skillet). Now, my honey has added one stainless steel pan, and I got another stainless steel pot for Christmas.

I really want a mortar and pestle.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 1:29 PM
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42

35- Brady looks like Eli Manning's bastard brother so far (and that's not Peyton.)


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 1:36 PM
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43

42: dude you unjinxed him! Sweet!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 1:43 PM
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41: But you do need a salad spinner! You really do!

I like having a rice cooker, but concede it is inessential.


Posted by: Chris Conway | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 1:46 PM
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45

I received an avocado masher and a mango de-seeder for Christmas. Unfortunately I don't live in an area where these are native crops.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 1:47 PM
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46

I eat salad every night. My salad spinner lives comfortably under the sink. We aren't about to throw it out, but we're not about to use it, either.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 1:48 PM
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47

I have enjoyed other people's salad spinners, but I don't like cleaning them. Picking little bits out of the basket annoys me, which is weird because I don't at all mind cleaning my very hard-to-clean food mill.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 1:48 PM
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48

43- Not really. His receivers are pickup him up making some good catches. They just got the TD, but would have had it on the previous pass if he hadn't thrown to the receivers back knee.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 1:48 PM
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48: pickup him up because they're getting into the zone, man. Momentum, man. Watch him roll, man!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 1:52 PM
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dark irony brown

Being ironic doesn't excuse you from racism, AWB.

I have a sardony flame LC dutch oven.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 2:06 PM
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Christ on a popsicle stick, you people are the death of romance. I have purchased sexxy underthings for my wife, and I've given her (and them) due appreciation when they were worn.

Buying someone bad lingerie is usually the result of the kind of unproductive projection of fantasy onto reality that you black-hearted cynics seem to think represents the sum total of romantic relationships. But it can be avoided and, even if you fail to avoid it, it can be overcome.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 2:09 PM
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52

Your claims are meaningless without pictures, marvey.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 2:13 PM
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53

those who would love to be bought pricey flimsy unmentionables.

But wouldn't you love it more if the mister would take you to La Perla (or wherever) and foot the bill?

Being a humorless feminist, I buy my own sexy lingerie. And yes, I find that it is appreciated. Plus, bonus: it fits, and I don't feel ridiculous in it.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 2:33 PM
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54

I eat salad every night. My salad spinner lives comfortably under the sink. We aren't about to throw it out, but we're not about to use it, either.

So, what, you eat wet salad? The horror!


Posted by: Chris Conway | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 2:37 PM
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55

47 is truly perverse.


Posted by: Chris Conway | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 2:38 PM
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56

My salad spinster, on the other hand, lives uncomfortably in the attic.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 2:53 PM
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57

I don't really like giving or receiving presents for birthdays or Christmas.

I do love giving presents or receiving presents randomly. It shows that the person was thinking of you.

I avoid buying lingerie.

But, like mrh said, buying poorly is bad, regardless of what it is.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 2:53 PM
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I misread 56 as "salad sphincter", and imagined 55 had spoken too soon.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 2:56 PM
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I don't really like giving or receiving presents for birthdays or Christmas.

Honestly, I think the stress and mortification of screwing on my, "I am delighted by and grateful for this gift," face overwhelms any potential benefits of receiving gifts.


Posted by: Chris Conway | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:00 PM
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I wouldn't want someone to give me lingerie at a family Christmas gift-giving event, and I"m not even sure that I'd want someone I wasn't married to/living with giving it to me at all. I don't really believe in advertising the intimacy. I'm hopelessly old-fashioned in that way.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:01 PM
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This game reminds me of the NYG-SF49ers game where NY won without a TD but with 5 FGs.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:04 PM
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62

Presumably one has to outscore the opponent to manage that, SP?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:07 PM
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Dude, if NE blows this and SD doesn't get a touchdown, I am going to be seriously annoyed.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:08 PM
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One more FG and it's 15-14. NE needs a defensive TD because every time Brady touches the ball he turns it over.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:09 PM
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65

This is blogwhoring, I guess, but this is my comment on Jim Henley:

They should keep decoy stats for Randy Moss.
"Brewski" is a GREAT name for a middle linebacker, even if he doesn't spell it that way.
"Jammer" is a FANTASTIC name for a cornerback.
The TV shits failed to jinx Kaeding on his 3rd field goal. Good, I hate the TV shits more than I love New England. (Actually, I only love Moss and now Maroney, who's been coming through when needed.)
As a little short guy, I admire Sproles enormously. He's 5′6″. He had at least one fantastic run.

Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:12 PM
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Also, mrh is right that a well-chosen gift can be very romantic. shivbunny is very good at the whole watch-what-she-likes-and-then-ask-the-shopgirl-for-help game.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:12 PM
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67

64: excluding the two touchdowns, of course.

Can't pick that Rivers, either.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:16 PM
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68

I rest my case.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:16 PM
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69

STOP SUCKING!!!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:16 PM
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70

okay this is key. C'mon Tommy.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:17 PM
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71

Fuck. I hate TiVO. I was two minutes behind y'all.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:18 PM
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72

shivbunny is very good at the whole watch-what-she-likes-and-then-ask-the-shopgirl-for-help game.

That is such a rare skill for men. I blame society.

(I'm proud to say, though, that PK has been really good at presents for Mama ever since he was old enough to have opinions. It's a little odd, having a kid who wants to get me things like clip earrings and purse-sized blank journals instead of "ooh, look at that super cute thing that *I* like!")


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:18 PM
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73

That is such a rare skill for men. I blame society.

Yeah, women are invariably dynamite at buying gifts.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:20 PM
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74

73 should have concluded:

Weirdo.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:21 PM
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75

Did I say that?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:21 PM
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76

(considering the time investment required in an endless discussion of whether 72, by mentioning only men, was in fact implying that men were worse at this than women were, followed by reams of anecdata, followed by general meta discussion featured pointlessly heated and accidentally insulting tangents)

No, no you did not.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:24 PM
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I despise gift-giving and -receiving days, too, Will. Way too much pressure, and you have to gift everyone all at once, or be gifted by everyone all at once. I think the best gifts are ones that fit comfortably in that conjunction of your own special interests and the giftee's special interests. Sometimes it's been during gift-giving scenarios when I've realized I don't actually have anything in common with someone I'm dating, which is depressing.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:25 PM
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76- Sexist.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:25 PM
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79

He surprises me. My Christmas stocking was filled with little lotions and bath salts and fancy soaps, which doesn't sound all that remarkable unless you take into account that I tend to be allergic to anything artificially scented and all of it worked.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:25 PM
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But wouldn't you love it more if the mister would take you to La Perla (or wherever) and foot the bill?

I'm afraid this would make me feel uncomfortably like some kind of kept woman or something. And I'd be all worried about not wanting to spend tooo much, not wanting to take advantage.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:26 PM
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81

Yeah, women are invariably dynamite at buying gifts.

But you said you liked it!!


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:27 PM
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82

76: Defensive much, Tweety?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:27 PM
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I think it's hard to buy gifts that knock someone's socks off. Acceptable and pleasant is usually easy to hit, but making someone's jaw drop is hard.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:28 PM
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84

What, you don't believe the Lexus commercials?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:29 PM
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85

82: nope.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:30 PM
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86

84: 'bout that interception, SP?

81: I just feel a little bit fat in that thong.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:31 PM
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87

Luckily, I am going to go do other things this afternoon, so I'll avoid being accused of starting a fight. Toodles!


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:32 PM
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I have always liked nice underwear, and have always bought it for myself. I like the feeling of being perfectly ordinary-looking, even scruffy, on the outside, but all slinky underneath. Now C buys it for me too. Sometimes as presents, sometimes together. A couple of things I haven't liked, but it's not been a big deal. I wouldn't expect him to buy me a decent bra; you have to try them on.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:33 PM
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I need to go underwear shopping. I pretty much hate all but eight or nine of my panties, and make any excuse not to wear any. I have fantasies about taking pretty much all of my clothes and dragging them to the Salvation Army and starting from scratch, but that will be expensive. That goes in the Real Job Fantasy stack.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:39 PM
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86- Brady's going to have to buy each defensive player a Lexus for saving his ass.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:41 PM
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AWB: sales at figleaves.com! That is how I manage to afford way nicer bras than I could otherwise, and they carry all sorts of pretty panties, too.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:45 PM
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AWB: discontinued styles at marygreen.com!


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:49 PM
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OK, I've read the article now.

Firstly - she wants him to buy her hugely expensive lingerie, and then lets him see it for a few seconds in the dark? Ridiculous behaviour.

And secondly: like most American women, tolerates an underwire, and prefers padding - like most British women too, given the ratio of padded to unpadded. WHY??????? I fucking hate padded bras. Hate them, hate them, hate them.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:51 PM
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Your claims are meaningless without pictures, marvey.

Now that she occasionally reads here, you'd better watch your ass, w-lfs-n.

I think it's hard to buy gifts that knock someone's socks off. Acceptable and pleasant is usually easy to hit, but making someone's jaw drop is hard.

This is undeniably true. Knowing it's true, I always try to do a good job of appearing to have had my socks knocked, regardless. And those rare times you know you've hit the bullseye are definitely worth any effort it took to come up with the gift.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:51 PM
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72: Not that odd; the Offspring has been a champion gift-giver since he was very young. He took to heart the early advice "find out what someone wants before you give them something". His friends have historically been like that, as well, hence the odder things he got at his one-digit birthday parties that the giver's parents were dubious about, but he adored.

The Biophysicist is a great gift-giver. Power tools, kitchen gadgets, knives [kitchen], knives [non-kitchen], chocolate, books - what more could a woman ask for? A Sig 220?


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:52 PM
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Padded bras are stupid. However, I can't really stand unlined bras. I have nipples. A lot of fancy lingerie does not care about looking good under clothes, I suppose.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:53 PM
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And, AWB - La Senza - Canadian, but ship over the border; not high-end, but nice, and they do loads of good offers on knickers (5 for $15 atm).


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:54 PM
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That sounds nice, asilon. Yeah, all I really want are lacy boy-shorts. I am not picky about their fanciness.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:55 PM
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Ugh, what did I do to my html? link


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:55 PM
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100

On the subject of Le Creuset, I'll just have you all know that I am the one person on earth who can, in fact, ruin Le Creuset cookware.

(My lingerie, in contrast, has generally held up pretty well. Probably because it gets much less use.)


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:56 PM
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101

Hrm. La Senza does not seem to sell the cut I want, but maybe in their non-sale stuff they do.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:58 PM
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102

Gooooooo Pats!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 3:58 PM
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103

Maroney rules. Brady is his bitch.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:02 PM
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104

I'm afraid this would make me feel uncomfortably like some kind of kept woman or something

I just asked the missus and she said the same thing, except for the "un" bit.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:06 PM
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I know some people love it, but I can't imagine going shopping for clothes of any kind with a s.o. I am a terrible grouch about clothes shopping and I know it adds unnecessary stress and unpleasantness to anyone else to have to be around me when I'm doing it.

I absolutely love giving gifts and mostly enjoy receiving them, but I also make it a point to avoid obligation-gifts (in either direction), so that helps. There is a lovely scene in an Alexandra Sellers romance in which the man gives the woman a box of ballpoint pens and it is beautifully clear from the backstory why it is such a thoughtful and romantic gift.

As far as underthings, the soft stretchiness of Love Tanjane is worth the priceiness, and if I lived in a country that had an Intimissimi store I'd be in real trouble. (Victoria's Secret carries some here, but I refuse to set foot in VS and they don't stock the good stuff anyway.)



Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:11 PM
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106

I pretty much hate all but eight or nine of my panties.

Jeez, meetings of your panty team must be really tense.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:11 PM
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107

Fights breaking out in the pantie drawer all the time.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:13 PM
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108

Thongs threatening to strangle the hipsters, boyshorts playing rough. It's a frilly disaster.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:17 PM
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Gift-giving is highly individual though. I don't think there are a lot of useful rules. The dearest, most romantic Valentine's Day gift I ever got was a card with a gift certificate to make a charitable contribution to the organization of my choice. It was perfect in the context of the relationship -- but I can imagine that 90% of my friends and 99% of the world would have thought it was an awful gift.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:19 PM
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Football challenges lingerie for thread preëminence; lingerie comes out on top. I blame Tom Brady's Yankee-insignia panties.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:19 PM
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Those panties had their day. They're just washed-up has-beens now. Wearing them is like Hollywood Squares for them; they're just glad for the attention.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:24 PM
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I've had fun shopping for clothes with s.o.'s, but always when there's no actual felt need to buy something. In contrast to task-oriented shopping, where you know you need x or y and would rather just go find it (in an efficient manner).

But yes, just poking around a shop with someone, perhaps trying on this or that, can be fun -- I've tended to treat it as not unlike poking around an antiques store together, say.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:24 PM
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Gift-giving is highly individual though.

I agree with Witt. Gift-giving is totally about the individual. I would still prefer a well-written card to anything else.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:25 PM
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Those panties had their day. They're just washed-up has-beens now.

Reminds me a little of the 'Secret Lives of Dresses' feature on the Dress a Day blog.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:26 PM
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let's talk gender issues.

Most women here seem to not want their men to buy them underwear. If you started dating a guy and he had underwear choices that you didnt like, would you attempt to buy him new ones? Or change his style (tightie whities to boxers)?


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:28 PM
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I can't imagine caring what underwear my partner wore, as long as they're clean. With boxers, there's the benefit that I can borrow them so as to not have to actually dress for breakfast, but beyond that, who cares?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:32 PM
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The better question is, why would you date a guy who wore tightie whities? Have some self-respect, for crying out loud.

OT: No more masturbating to Suzanne Pleshette. That's not going to be easy.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:33 PM
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I probably have made obnoxious clothing gifts of shirts, though. When one is dating a very extremely medium-sized man who exclusively owns XL shirts, one is tempted to purchase a few M-labelled sweaters and button-downs, with the caveat that if he hates fabric actually touching his skin, he's welcome to return them.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:35 PM
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If a certain style of underpant looks good on a fellow, I will not be shy about encouraging him to buy some more of the same! Modulo comfort, however -- I wouldn't want anyone to wear something uncomfortable just because I thought it was cute. But I think it's all pretty comfortably in the same range as "Baby! That shirt looks so good on you. You should wear that color all the time!" Unfortunately, canonically sexy girl underwear is a much dicier bag.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:36 PM
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I am the worst gift-giver in the world. Every once in awhile I give someone something that they really like, but never at the normally scheduled times (birthdays or Xmas). But even my off-the-cuff gifts often happen to be wrong.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:36 PM
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If you started dating a guy and he had underwear choices that you didnt like, would you attempt to buy him new ones? Or change his style (tightie whities to boxers)?

Good lord, no.

IF the relationship is of the sort in which discussing clothing is part of your dynamic, it might come up in a playful way, but that's about it.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:37 PM
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I went through a period in which all my shirts were chosen for me by Napoleon and Lucretia (their way to school goes past the clothes market). As a result, half of my t-shirts have cartoon characters on them. I can testify that if you're a slightly scruffy and frequently unshaven red-haired bloke with a small paunch, and you wear a t-shirt with a picture of Shaggy from Scooby-Doo on it, it looks pretty fucking ridiculous, particularly if you're wearing roughly the same colour trousers as Shaggy is wearing in the picture.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:38 PM
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That's really cute, d^2.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:40 PM
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I can testify that if you're a slightly scruffy and frequently unshaven red-haired bloke with a small paunch, and you wear a t-shirt with a picture of Shaggy from Scooby-Doo on it, it looks pretty fucking ridiculous, particularly if you're wearing roughly the same colour trousers as Shaggy is wearing in the picture.

How recursive.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:40 PM
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119 gets it right. There's not nearly as many standard options* in men's underwear as there is in women's, and sexy women's underwear is a much dicier bag. Comfort seems to be the primary concern, and holey-ness a close second. So there's not really all that much to suggest beyond "baby, you know we can afford to buy a new pair of underwear so you can throw out this one with the holes. come on, let it go!"** except color and comfort.

*To be underwear-normative, I will exclude all apo links from consideration.
** It's a bizarre gender stereotype that shivbunny incarnates. Things with holes do not need to be kept!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:46 PM
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sexy women's underwear is a much dicier bag

there is something about this subject which turns us all into Austin Powers, apparently.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:47 PM
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Yeah, I agree that comfort is primary, and not to be interfered with.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:49 PM
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Good lord, no.

This is wrong. You are always allowed--obligated, even--to encourage someone away from tightie whities. I say that as someone who had the change forced upon him. (I look with shame at my younger self.)

But in all other cases, parsimon's general rule seems fair.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:53 PM
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Just admit that it is ok for a woman to tell a man to change his fashion (or lack thereof) but not ok for a man to tell a woman.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:54 PM
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Things with holes do not need to be kept!

You mean I don't really need to be hanging on to all the various socks with holes in the heels?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:56 PM
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129: Why? So we can play straw man for you?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:57 PM
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131:

AWB, I would never try to get you to dress up as someone different.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:58 PM
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#129: it's perfectly acceptable for a man to tell a woman to change her fashion choices, just as it's perfectly acceptable for a woman to tell a man to change his hi-fi system, the one caveat being (and it's a rarely met one in practice) that the teller should know what they are fucking talking about.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:58 PM
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No! There will be more socks! There will always be more socks!*

*I threw out 90 socks. Ninety!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 4:59 PM
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I actually don't have much investment in my clothes, so when I've been asked to wear something, I usually do so pretty happily because it saves me the bother of trying to guess what to wear. The ex I bought shirts for told me what to wear all the time, so I think mine was a minor crime.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:01 PM
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Ah, for the good old days, when a man could tie a string around his penis and be regarded as well-dressed. Civilization and wealth have brought corruption into the world.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:01 PM
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i need to throw out a bunch of t-shirts. I have way too many tshirts that do not get worn.

I also need to throw out all of my non-smart wool socks.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:01 PM
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R more or less switched me from boxers to boxer-briefs, and I've never been happier or more comfortable. Until the Great Underwear Shift of '02, I never wore jeans, because I found the boxers bunched up uncomfortably.

Telling someone what to wear? Weird. Suggesting, and even encouraging them to wear something? Totally cool.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:06 PM
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115 was done to me, but it had more to do with fertility than fashion.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:08 PM
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It must be a generation thing. In my youth, the only men who wore boxers were one's grandfather. I still find the idea of boxers=attractive undies to be ludicrous. However, I was glad when my son left some boxers behind when he moved out, as I now have several pair of wear-around-the-house shorts, after sewing up the flies.

I agree that the average white briefs are boring. That is why the Biophysicist has undies in a variety of attractive colours. His are still not as fun as My Old Roommate's, which were often day-glo or Escher-patterned. MOR worked in a bank and had to wear ties, so he rebelled through underclothing.

[Hmmmm - B-Wo wears ties voluntarily - does that mean he's rebelling through neckwear? I tell you, it's generational.]


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:10 PM
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Boxer-briefs do seem to be cool.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:12 PM
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One of the main differences, I think, in clothing advice from a partner is whether it's advice that says, "You are so attractive to me and I have this fantasy about you wearing this clothing that would highlight those features that particularly arouse me" and advice that says, "You are so unattractive to me and I desperately wish you would wear something that would distract me from noticing the flaws in your form." Sometimes, on the receiving end, no matter the gender, it's hard to tell the difference. Sometimes it's unambiguous.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:12 PM
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Of course, then there's also advice that says, "I want you to wear this thing that reminds me of some other person I dated or something I saw in a porno," which basically goes into the latter category.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:15 PM
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what about the advice that says "you're a lovely bird, darling, but you've got crap taste in knickers?"


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:18 PM
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(because I like living, I will hastily point out that I have never either said or been in a position to say anything of the sort, ever).


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:18 PM
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Why must the flies be sewn up?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:19 PM
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told me what to wear all the time

This really is a pretty touchy subject. Obviously.

I've had a couple of relationships in which I asked for the s.o.'s advice on my clothing. And a couple of times when someone's said, Dude, I know they're one of your favorites, but those pants have got to go. And a few in which we sort of dressed each other; which can be very nice.

Generally, though, I'm pretty stubborn, and it's a bit of a danger area for someone I'm seeing to opine overly much about my dress.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:20 PM
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There's a great line in Scrubs where the married couple is bickering about something with their friends and the wife turns her husband to invoke his support, and he doesn't, and then goes on to say something like "And your favorite jeans make your butt look ridiculous. [beat] I'm already in trouble anyway and it needed to be said!"


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:26 PM
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Now that she occasionally reads here, you'd better watch your ass, w-lfs-n.

My ass I can watch any time.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:32 PM
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I hear 'you're not really wearing that, are you?' every now and again. Sometimes it has an effect, sometimes not.

I wouldn't buy sexy underwear on a bet. I've scored well enough on gifts over the years, but am really at a loss with the wife's birthday only a week away.


Posted by: Napi | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:36 PM
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'you're not really wearing that, are you?'

Heh, that's a step beyond "Is that what you're wearing?"


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:38 PM
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149: really? Do you carry a hand mirror?

150: you'd look terrific in sexy underwear.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:42 PM
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One of the main differences, I think, in clothing advice from a partner is whether it's advice that says, "You are so attractive to me and I have this fantasy about you wearing this clothing that would highlight those features that particularly arouse me" and advice that says, "You are so unattractive to me and I desperately wish you would wear something that would distract me from noticing the flaws in your form."

Well, certainly. In giving clothing advice and suggestions, as in all things, it's important to remember not to be an asshole.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:43 PM
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No, I carry a full-length three-way mirror.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:45 PM
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Does your wife have luxurious pyjamas, Napi? Silk, satin, or very very soft cotton?


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:45 PM
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153: it's important to remember not to be an asshole.

Unless you are an asshole, in which case it's important to remember to be clean, well-moisturized and hemmorhoid free.

And not bleached, show off.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:45 PM
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Sifu is clearly drunk with victory.

I'm watching the CBS climate change thing -- during hockey practice -- and it's quite something. I guess I knew about WH editing and the like, but showing the drafts and the emails, really brings it home.


Posted by: Napi | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:47 PM
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154: the crosses we must bear, eh?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:48 PM
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My undergarments fall into the "cute, not sexy" category, which so far has worked for me & interested parties just fine. Thinking about it now, "cute" is probably easier to purchase for an s.o. than "sexy," which seems to get into "is that really what he wants"* territory a lot faster.

& damn, I can buy a bra for myself in ten minutes, but I suspect that no man I have ever dated would be able to do so competently.

*"Or she," obviously; many, but perhaps not all, of my previous partners would have been confused had I purchased them sexy, glittery thongs.


Posted by: caldwellian | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:48 PM
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152.1: Do you have any doubt that Ben carries a hand-mirror?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:48 PM
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pwned by Benjamin himself.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:49 PM
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160: well, yeah. Is this a common Edwardian gentleman's accessory? I would be less surprised if he carried a magnifying glass & fingerprinting kit.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:50 PM
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It's a good thought, Jack. I'm not checked out on buying PJs; only her cousin in Germany can buy them. (Apparently, German PJs are different from American).


Posted by: Napi | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:52 PM
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Actually, I just keep my watch cover at a high enough polish that it can be used as a mirror.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:52 PM
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I covet these pyjamas, for example.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:54 PM
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Eh, my ex was an excellent shopper. I would have been delighted to turn over all my clothing choices to him. God knows he was better about sizing me and choosing interesting clothing than I am. Besides which, I figure he looks at me all the time and I never do. Might as well maximize that for his preferences.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:55 PM
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I covet this, with the matching boyshorts.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:59 PM
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146: Because I don't require ventilation?


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 5:59 PM
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165: I picked up a pair of pants/bottoms like that at the Goodwill not too long ago -- just great, wear 'em all the time. I should go back to that place; they had a good sub-section of similar things, $6 or so a piece.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:00 PM
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Hanro has the absolute nicest cotton. I still wear a camisole my mother bought for me 14 years ago.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:06 PM
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157a- Saiselgy found just the thing for him.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:09 PM
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168: But what is the downside? That is, ventilation being unnecessary, why is it harmful enough to require sewing up?

Evolutionarily speaking, a trait persists even if useless uless it has a cost. So I'm trying to figure out the down side of having a placket.

Also, trying to figure out the mystery of the Feminine Principle. I can't remember that Jung had anything to say about this.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:13 PM
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Jung never had popcorn fall through his flies into his tender pink parts, did he? Or the pen he was doing the crossword with whilst lazing back on the sofa?


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:16 PM
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One of my more fortuitous breakups occurred shortly before a Christmas when my gf had intended to give me lots of clothes. She was a bit of a fashionista (she worked as a buyer for a snooty clothing boutique) and the garments would have been expensive and high quality, but very much not me. I escaped with my Carhartt-shorts-and-grey-t-shirt look intact.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:17 PM
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171: hey I have standards.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:18 PM
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I would have been delighted to turn over all my clothing choices to him.

See, this prospect just unnerves me. I look so completely different when dressed entirely differently (or when made up, for that matter). People I know would just stare and wonder if I'd gone off the deep end.

That said, I have a number of things in my closet I've never worn because they're not my usual style. People will stare!

I really need to construct opportunites to wear these things in novel circumstances.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:18 PM
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Speaking of wardrobe changes, the winter jacket I've been wearing for the past ten years finally wore out so much that it's unwearable, so today I went over to my mom's house to try on some of my dad's old jackets as replacements. They're a little big on me, but I took them all anyway, along with a couple of Pendleton shirts that were in my closet. While I was there, we started talking about clothes, and I mentioned that I was getting tired of the large flannel shirts that I've been wearing as winter casual wear for the past few years, since I really wear a medium and would prefer a sleeker look. My mom and sister, who apparently went shopping at Western Warehouse recently for some reason, suggested I get some western shirts. Might not be a bad idea.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:23 PM
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173: I guess ladies are just more sensitive.

166: That Megan, stubbornly going against type! Her boyfriend probably cons her into carrying out the garbage, opening the pickle jars, emptying the rat traps, shooting the homicidal intruders, and taking on all the other masculine responsibilities, just so she doesn't have to buy her own panties.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:26 PM
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had popcorn fall through his flies into his tender pink parts, did he? Or the pen he was doing the crossword with whilst lazing back on the sofa?

these sound very much like the sort of excuses that they are familiar with at the Accident & Emergency department.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:27 PM
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Do it, teo. Full speed ahead.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:27 PM
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177: With the mother-of-pearl buttons. Hint: that's what snagged Heebie.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:28 PM
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177: Western or not, having shirts that fit will make you look sharp. But... the same jacket for ten years? Since you were twelve? I'm guessing you bought it to grow into?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:29 PM
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With the mother-of-pearl buttons.

See, this is why I'm a little reluctant. I prefer a more understated look. On the other hand, heebie is awesome...


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:29 PM
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Western shirts without m.o.p. buttons are a waste of your sartorial time, Teo.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:30 PM
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Since you were twelve?

13 or 14. I know I had it in eighth grade, but I'm not sure when I got it exactly. So maybe not quite ten years.

I'm guessing you bought it to grow into?

No, I've been the same size since then. It's a men's medium.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:30 PM
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Western shirts without m.o.p. buttons are a waste of your sartorial time, Teo.

I'm not wholly against the MOP buttons. But no huge bolo ties or belt buckles. It's a slippery slope, people.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:31 PM
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183: aw, live a little.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:32 PM
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But a cowboy hat would be cool.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:33 PM
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But a cowboy hat would be cool.

True, and I've been meaning to check out that hat store near my office.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:33 PM
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Pearl buttons aren't that overstated. Goes with the territory anyway.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:34 PM
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No half measures, teo. Forget the western shirts and get a Nudie suit.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:35 PM
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190: I suppose.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:35 PM
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Chew snoose with a six gun on your hip and your trusty armadillo hound at your side. Pick your teeth and examine the end of the toothpick. Drink straight shots and chase them with more straight shots. You're a Westerner, son.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:36 PM
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191: See what I mean?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:36 PM
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And I agree with ben about the pearl buttons, especially if it's not part of a whole western get-up. (This from a girl who owns red cowboy boots, so grain of salt.)


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:37 PM
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Where I came from, the difference between hip kids and hicks was that hicks wore tight jeans and loose shirts, while hip kids wore looser jeans and tight shirts. Now, things are so damn confused I don't know what I'm looking at anymore.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:37 PM
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You folks (Jesus excepted) are clearly not familiar with the extremes to which people go with this look.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:38 PM
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I represented a guy at a meeting with his employer this last week. Before the meeting, he had asked me what he should wear, and I told him to dress comfortably, as he would for work (he's a mechanic). He told me that, no, he wanted to dress up, in a shirt and tie, to be respectful. He showed up in a western shirt and the most awesome bolo tie -- braided leather threaded through a slice of polished agate, about three inches across. I liked him, like, 3000% more after that.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:39 PM
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They're your heritage, Teo. For you it is a legit authentic choice.

carrying out the garbage, opening the pickle jars, emptying the rat traps, shooting the homicidal intruders, and taking on all the other masculine responsibilities, just so she doesn't have to buy her own panties.

I would make that trade IN A FLASH. If it were only that easy.

But Parsimon, I'm not vested in what I present as now. My look right now is "being bland enough that I'm not making a conspicuous mistake." My ex had way better taste than that, so if he'd been willing to take over my wardrobe, I'd have been grateful.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:44 PM
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Mother of pearl buttons = snap buttons?

I don't really speak American west or southwest, so the western shirt, if I understand it correctly (I'm thinking piping along the shoulder-blade area or something) is out of my purview.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:47 PM
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Megan, I guess I'll get some panties to have around just in case I need to have a rat or an intruder shot. Stay by the phone.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:49 PM
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They're your heritage, Teo. For you it is a legit authentic choice.

That's the thing, though; my people didn't and don't actually dress like this.

Mother of pearl buttons = snap buttons?

Yes.

Funny story combining both of the previous parts of this comment: My dad's oncologist dresses very western. Once when they were meeting my dad mentioned that he was having trouble buttoning his shirts, so the oncologist suggested that he start dressing western to take advantage of the snaps. My dad replied that that was an option, yes, but then he'd be one of those obnoxious guys with the big bolo ties and stuff, whereupon he looked up and saw that the oncologist was wearing a western shirt and a big bolo tie.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:52 PM
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200: reference.

A counter-example.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:53 PM
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On the other hand, if jms likes the western look maybe it's worth a try.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:54 PM
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202.1: western shirt, bolo tie, tallis, tails, and yarmulke.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:54 PM
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You could go for the prospector look instead of the cowboy look, and grow a grizzly beard.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:56 PM
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205: Now we're talking.

206: I've tried that; it wasn't for me.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:57 PM
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204 gets it exactly right.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:58 PM
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western shirt, bolo tie, tallis, tails, and yarmulke.

Please, dear Lord, yes.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:59 PM
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205, cont'd: this could be you, teo!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 6:59 PM
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Proud to be an asshole from El Paso.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:01 PM
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210 is awesome.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:02 PM
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But Parsimon, I'm not vested in what I present as now. My look right now is "being bland enough that I'm not making a conspicuous mistake." My ex had way better taste than that, so if he'd been willing to take over my wardrobe, I'd have been grateful.

Sure, I understand. I seem be curious about it all, though, since apparently I am invested, myself, in how I currently present; which isn't to say it's great or anything.

I don't know, it's odd. I think of myself as dressing slightly strangely, though not outrageously; then I spend time among, say, hippies or other alternative types, and I find I'm really conspicuously conservative. It has nothing to do with avoiding mistakes, though.

In any event, I'd probably enjoy a (free) wardrobe of things that looked fantastic on me, even if I looked nothing like myself.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:04 PM
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Teo, you should give some real thought to changing your pseud to Bucky Goldstein.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:12 PM
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Kinky Friedman has already exhausted that schtick.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:13 PM
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Kinky Friedman exhausted a lot of things, and people.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:15 PM
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And we will dress Ben up as the International Standard Hipster guy, and Ben will *like it*, dammit.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:17 PM
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Is there a story, Sifu? You're among friends. Everything will be kept in the strictest confidence.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:17 PM
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If he touched you, maybe you can show us on this doll where he touched you.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:19 PM
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Sometimes a vaguely racist election spoiler with a cigar is just a vaguely racist election spoiler with a cigar, John.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:25 PM
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I'm beginning to think that when I bought a couple of pairs of pants last week, I should have bought some long underwear too.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:27 PM
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This thread has convinced you, eb?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:28 PM
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It is a very convincing thread.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:31 PM
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I can just see the next Unfogged Meet-Up: We all get together at a really big mall, say, Mall of America, and take Teo, Megan and any other guinea pigs people on a fashion make-over buying binge and maybe find AWB some new undies...


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:32 PM
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This may not have been the best day for me to decide that taking the subway "only" one or two stops wasn't really worth it and that I'd walk instead.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:35 PM
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I have a hunch that an Unfogged makeover would be a disaster.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:39 PM
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But an entertaining one!


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:40 PM
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but if it was an underwear makeover, only a few would know about the disaster. Unless you all then got knocked down by a bus I suppose.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:41 PM
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225: I had the opposite thought, and then I waited for the R train for half an hour.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:42 PM
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DE - I am in your capable hands.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:44 PM
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226: What, AWB, you wouldn't trust the Unfoggedariat to pick out just the right bolo tie for Teo? Or the proper chaps? How little faith you have.

And, at least, we wouldn't be Elizabeth Hasselbeck or those annoying twins.


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:46 PM
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228: Not if those re-togged attended an UnfoggeDCon. I've seen pictures.


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:48 PM
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OT: I just took one of the match-yourself-to-a-presidential-candidate on the issues quizzes.

I am just a little surprised that I matched as follows:

Kucinich (no kidding): 85%
Clinton: 75%
Cynthia McKinney: something
Mike Gravel: something
Barack Obama: 70%
Edwards: 65%

Hm. Quiz results provide links to statements from the candidates. Maybe this is all old news; and there are probably more extensive forms of this Q&A online than just the 20 questions here.

The link to the quiz came from here.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 7:59 PM
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Fucking Giants.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:01 PM
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Fucking Giants are folding like a cheap carnival tent.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:03 PM
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This game is something else. Eli's big interception is coming, I can feel it.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:04 PM
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Maybe they should let Eli kick the field goals, he couldn't do any worse.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:05 PM
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A night to remember for Tynes. Four seconds to go, that would have been sweet. Tant pis!


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:08 PM
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Who was throwing that big interception again?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:09 PM
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Hmmm -

Clinton 75%
Kucinich 73%
McKinney 70%
Edwards 68%
Obama 68%


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:09 PM
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Not NY is going to score starting from the 40, of course, they'll blow it again.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:09 PM
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XLII- Rematch of UnfoggeDCon Bowl!


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:12 PM
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Redemption! Sorry, Packers.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:14 PM
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Dammit. Is Eli actually going to become a good quarterback next year? He damn well better, or else this will be the greatest waste of a post-season. America wanted Packers-Pats. Before that, America wanted more Colts-Pats. Bastard fate.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:16 PM
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Except this time the Patriots will use the rest of their playbook!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:16 PM
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Go Pats!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:17 PM
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Kucinich %75
Gravel %73
McKinney %71
Hillary and Obama %63
Edwards %58

Sometimes these quizzes make me seem a little more mainstream.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:21 PM
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I did that quiz pretty quickly, and answered in the extreme on most questions, just wanting to see what would happen: Stongly Support, Strongly Oppose.

Most of my differences from Obama and Edwards were in their being judged by the quiz-makers as merely Supporting or Opposing (not Strongly). Though Obama shows up as supporting increased military spending for various arguably sensible reasons.

The main surprise, then, was in how many things Clinton is judged to "Stongly" oppose or support.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:33 PM
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I took the test in 233. The funny part was clicking on the links to the candidates' issues:

You have a very good match with Hillary Clinton. You should consider voting for Hillary Clinton unless you disapprove of his character and background.

Posted by: pasdquoi | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:34 PM
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That quiz is weird. I got a four-way tie of Clinton, Kucinich, McKinney, and Obama at 70%. What do those four politicians agree on?


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:50 PM
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I reject the premise that strong opinions obligate me to vote for Kucinich (80%).


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:51 PM
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What do those four politicians agree on?

The desirability of your vote. And abortion.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:53 PM
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They agree on the desirability of abortion?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 8:57 PM
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America wanted Packers-Pats.

No they didn't. And the Giants gave the Pats their best game.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 9:00 PM
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I think that that quiz is crap. I checked the most liberal answer on every question, and I got 73% Kucinich / 10% Duncan Hunter.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 9:02 PM
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I'm sure they don't all agree on the desirability of mrh's abortion.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 9:07 PM
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America really did want Packers-Pats, and the fact that people here disagree shows how much of out-of-touch liberal elitist Obama supporters you all are. (I didn't want Packers-Pats; I wanted the earth to swallow up Tom Brady, and nothing less will do.)

Though, all I have to say about the Giants going to the Super Bowl is: Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. Ha. I'd be tempted to put money on the Patriots if the line was 40 points. The grotesque squashing that's coming will almost make the Super Bowl party that I foolishly agreed to co-host bearable.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 9:17 PM
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god, people going through life making their interactions mostly about getting validation are so fucking intolerable.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 9:55 PM
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One of the main differences, I think, in clothing advice from a partner is whether it's advice that says, "You are so attractive to me and I have this fantasy about you wearing this clothing that would highlight those features that particularly arouse me" and advice that says, "You are so unattractive to me and I desperately wish you would wear something that would distract me from noticing the flaws in your form." Sometimes, on the receiving end, no matter the gender, it's hard to tell the difference. Sometimes it's unambiguous.

yeah this too i guess.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 01-20-08 10:05 PM
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The quiz questions struck me as, well, simplistic - take the "drug use is immoral" - what drugs? A little grass on weekends? Your little brother's Ritalin? Mother's little helpers? A full-on crack addiction? Where does "morality" come into it? Harmless, harmful, tragic, stupid maybe, but "immoral"??

More money for the military? To be spent on what? Some psych counselling for those PTSD sufferers? Some body armour? Or just some more millions for Dick Cheney's pet projects of Halliburton and invading the rest of the world?

Family values taught in schools? Whose - mine, yours or Ann Coulter's? School vouchers? To help inner city kids get a better education without benefit of rodents in the classroom or to help fund "Christian" schools that teach religious doctrine?

Insomnia makes me cranky. And I will never forgive Hillary for not admitting she was wrong about the war in Iraq. [And why the hell do so many Murricans say "Eye-rack"?]


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 2:43 AM
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Harmless, harmful, tragic, stupid maybe, but "immoral"??

To you and me, sure. To them, yes it's immoral (question addresses basis of ethical positions)

More money for the military?

For them, don't ask. It's a good thing.

Family values taught in schools?

Dog whistle. If you have to ask you haven't heard it.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 3:11 AM
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More money for the military? For them, don't ask. It's a good thing.

I can't remember which right-wing pundit it was (Bill Kristol, maybe?) who once quipped, in more than half-seriousness, that he didn't care whether Reagan's missile defense system worked or not, as long as it kept the money from going to the poor.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 6:47 AM
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Caspar Weinberger, Sec Defense under Reagan, said that he didn't know anything about defense and just figured that his job was to lobby Congress for as much money as possible.

Like Rumsfeld, Weinberger had that glittery-eyed tweaker look. With enough amphetamine, all your ideas seem good to you.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 6:53 AM
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With enough amphetamine, all your ideas seem good to you.

Now there's some first class apostropher link-bait.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 7:56 AM
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260:

The quiz questions struck me as, well, simplistic - take the "drug use is immoral" - what drugs? A little grass on weekends? Your little brother's Ritalin?

If you click on the link for each question, you get an explanation for what each of your answer options means: Strongly Support means you think that blah blah; Support means you think blah blah.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 8:22 AM
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Those don't seem like very useful explanations.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 8:24 AM
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Now there's some first class apostropher link-bait.

It's just the meth making you think that, KR.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 11:56 AM
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265: The explanations aren't particularly edifying. Given that this is a nation where people make a book a bestseller because Oprah liked it, vote for president because they confuse the man with the characters he played in his movies, and appear on Jerry Springer in their underwear in order to boast of their 15 minutes, I have faith that there are people who decide whom to vote for based on silly "quizzes" such as this.

I'm still cranky.


Posted by: DominEditrix | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 1:53 PM
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268: Given that everyone left of Huckabee seems to end up being told to vote for Kucinich, that could be fun.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 2:03 PM
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Of course the quiz is ultimately silly. However, people like taking quizzes, and the silly thing does link to statements from the candidates I imagine many people wouldn't otherwise see; and it does clarify a few positions that, again, people quite likely wouldn't otherwise be aware of.

You work with the electorate you have, etc.

Now, have you considered throwing something? Could work.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 2:06 PM
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I think that the quiz questions were OK, because they were all buzzword questions easily interpretible in party-line terms. But the scoring was weird. I was trying for 100% Kicinich and got 79%, and I don't know where the Duncan Hunter 10% came from.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 2:41 PM
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I don't know where the Duncan Hunter 10% came from

That would be because you answered "sometimes" to the question "I hear voices inside my head telling me to do bad things."


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 3:24 PM
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But the scoring was weird.

Yeah, I actually scrolled through some of the candidates' policy statements that resulted in my matching Clinton on certain things, and not matching Edwards; the judgments as to whether they Support or Strongly Support or Oppose this or that are a little weak in some cases.

No surprise, really. Still enlightening to read some of the statements. You'd think I haven't been paying enough attention.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 6:33 PM
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I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but my mom and step-dad got me sleazy lingerie of the black lace and garter belt variety as a present for my high-school boyfriend. seriously mom, what the fuck. beats when my sister's bf bought her an SS uniform in his size, though, I guess.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 8:45 PM
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beats when my sister's bf bought her an SS uniform in his size

Um, what?!?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 8:47 PM
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Alameida, this sister is a WWII re-enactor, right? Pretty selfish for him to get her a present in his size.

Your mom & step-dad: words fail.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 9:04 PM
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Alameida, any normal stepfather would buy you sexy lingerie.

Normal in the sense of Humbert Humbert. because, you know, he wasn't queer or shit.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 9:09 PM
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My mom used to buy me totally slutty underwear when I was in college, though she was in denial about me having any kind of sexual relations. She has this conundrum about feeling like she didn't properly prepare me to be a fancy Parisian prostitute in the bedroom, but also knows she's supposed to wish I was a virgin. She just doesn't want someone to dump me for not wearing red and black satiny lacy underthings, I guess. Whatever it is that goes on in her mind, I can't trace it.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 9:09 PM
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278: That seems SO Southern to me. When my son was about 14 or 15 a Southern family we knew was vigorously pimping their dolled-up 9-year old at him. The virgin whore schtick.

/Puritan Yankee Avenger


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 9:13 PM
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278: I freaked out my mom once in college because I owned a leopard print bra. So glad it wasn't her idea! I can just see it -- cramped dorm room, fumbling, "you look hot", "oh, thanks, it was a gift from my mom!"


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 9:25 PM
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Oh my God, I forgot about my leopard bra. I had this incredible leopard-print bra that made my boobs look huge when I was 15. My mother did indeed buy it for me. I think it was a desperate act to counter my outerwear, which was (1994) ripped flannel from Goodwill and my brother's jeans.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 9:32 PM
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279: We can't help that our daughters are so hot, John. Best we can do is tart 'em up and try to get them to channel that energy into something productive.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 10:35 PM
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274: I've been on the boyfriends side of that. Worse actually.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01-21-08 11:04 PM
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283: Someone's parents bought you a WWII uniform, soup?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 01-22-08 7:00 AM
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