Re: Fatties, Every Last One Of Us

1

Betcha Jackmormon thinks he's muscle-y!

I blame whatsisface who directed Kids for this.

Or maybe Hedi Slimane.

One of those assholes.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 6:49 PM
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Oh sure, when *male* models are anorexic, you complain! [/bitchphd]


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 6:49 PM
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Where do his lungs fit?


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 6:51 PM
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Or maybe Hedi Slimane.

How do you know that name? In any case, click through.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 6:52 PM
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"Fashion responds" is the lamest cop-out ever. Why even go into fashion if all it does is "respond"?


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 6:52 PM
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I can't say anything bad about the attractiveness of skinny men, but jeez. Isn't the point of fashion to sell clothes? Stuff that looks good on that guy is going to look very weird on 98% of the male population.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 6:52 PM
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AHA! Yup. That bastard.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 6:53 PM
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Hey, that's my height and weight.


Posted by: destroyer | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 6:54 PM
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I think it's more just as the article said earlier: one designer had a taste for really thin male models, everyone noticed the clothes hung better because clothes do hang better on toast racks.

That guy has my waist measurement. I don't know whether that means he needs to eat something or I need to give him my food.

(BTW, Mineshaft women: "business formal" means a suit. I figured that much. Does it mean anything else (like ruling out sweaters, or certain accessories, or shoes)?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 6:55 PM
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8: Need a job? I think you also need the slackly pouting mouth, but collagen'll do that for you.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 6:55 PM
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9: Nope, not reliably anything more specific than suit. If this is for that consulting job, see if you can track yourself on the women you saw on your first interview.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 6:56 PM
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That's what the bike kids (very early twenties) I was hanging out with last year all looked like. Very androgynous.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 6:57 PM
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I'm about that tall and had a somewhat lower weight for a while but that was when I had a serious drug problem. My view, though, is that this is a public service. Fashion designers know that there is a problem with American being over weight. They were doing their part for years with women by helping induce bulimia and anorexia but that only got half the population. Now they are finally starting to address the other half. (Many men get the first half of bulimia but can't put in the effort to go the whole way, for example. Maybe this will help.)


Posted by: Matt (not the famous one) | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 6:57 PM
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9- for Business formal you must absolutely wear shoes. going barefoot is never formal.


Posted by: Matt (not the famous one) | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 6:59 PM
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13: (Many men get the first half of bulimia but can't put in the effort to go the whole way, for example. Maybe this will help.)

Hey, yeah, pretty progressive of them when you really think about it.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 6:59 PM
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11: I'd have to have straight hair and be four inches taller and a B cup. And probably a blue shirt and tasteful jewelry and pointy heels, but fuck the pointy heels.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:00 PM
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dude looks like a spine

ain't right


Posted by: felix | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:01 PM
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Damn. Maybe this means there will be fashionable clothes that look good on me. Or, at least, the five-inches-taller me.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:02 PM
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16: So it can't be straight, but have you got a yank-it-back hairstyle that works? And if there was tasteful jewelry, match it -- little earrings, necklace. But you know what I mean: go through your stuff to come as close as you can to dressing up as the women who work there now.

(Elevator shoes and binding your breasts not recommended.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:04 PM
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It just makes the models look younger. They don't actually look like distorted humans to me, the way female models do if I haven't looked at a magazine in little while. They look like boys who haven't filled out.

But hey, starving's still starving.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:06 PM
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Mostly I want to cluck at him and pull his shoulders back. Posture, hon. And push your bangs out of your pretty face.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:07 PM
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Cala - is the main problem that you'd be able to identify an outfit just fine, were you inside Ann Taylor, but you don't have the time/money/self-abuse drive to go fetch it, and so you're trying to analyze what's in your closet?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:08 PM
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I think the weight is far more shocking than the waist measurement. I wear a 28-29 inch waist, but he must have no shoulders or something.

My roomie in high school was actually even thinner. I think he was 6'2" and 130-something, but he was apparently anorexic for a stretch. Eesh.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:08 PM
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Buck was 6'2", 135 when I met him. He looked a lot bonier than that.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:09 PM
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I've noticed that in most of the ads featuring super-skinny female models in the semi-buff (like the Coco Chanel bus stop ads), they aggressively airbrush out their ribs, which makes them look like eels or something. Weirds me out. If you're 5'10" and weigh 105, you're going to have some bones sticking out. Don't they pay those girls for their ribs? Why then get rid of them?

Super-skinny models in general just don't look as good naked as they do with clothes on.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:12 PM
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Super-skinny models in general just don't look as good naked as they do with clothes on.

Unless the clothes are really ugly. Pleated pants and boat shoes.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:16 PM
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Buck was 6'2", 135 when I met him

I know there have been threads on this before, but I can't even imagine that. I'm 6'1" and according to the last body fat check I had, I should be 220-230lbs. I have a heavy build, but that is taller than me and almost 100lbs less than my ideal weight.


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:16 PM
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Here's the 6', 145lb. guy.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:17 PM
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Here's the 6', 145lb. guy.

Gaah, how do his legs even support him?


Posted by: CJB | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:19 PM
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He doesn't actually look particularly youthful. He does look like angry, aged Hansel.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:20 PM
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Gaah, how do his legs even support him?

Good thing they only have to lift 145 lbs.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:20 PM
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Here's the 6', 145lb. guy.

That's exactly what I was as a college freshman. 28" waist and everything. But I still looked more substantial than that guy.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:20 PM
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My boyfriend is 6' and about 140 pounds. 145 on a good day. He doesn't look that skinny though. Maybe he has honeycomb bones.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:21 PM
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Yeah, Buck's legs looked pretty much like that. A whole lot of kneecap going on.

27: Frame size is everything.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:21 PM
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One of my college boyfriends had the same waist measurement I did (26"), but he was only 5'7". His cheeks weren't all sunken but he did have clavicles like Nicole Kidman.


Posted by: Amber | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:25 PM
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22: The main problem is that I'm an academic without a lot of experience of what's okay in the business world, and have a tendency to find black suits very boring, and in my department, I could get away wearing pretty much anything. I just needed to know what business formal meant beyond the suit.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:27 PM
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27: Frame size is everything.

That's why the picture in 28 surprises me. His shoulders actually look fairly broad for his waist and hips. Most of the guys I've known with that kind of height and weight have been more skinny-rectangle in shape, much smaller framed. He must look pretty emaciated under that shirt.

I'd say "sucks to be him", but he's being paid several K to walk that stage a few times and I'm some chump about to go to Chipotle for dinner.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:27 PM
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I too was 6'/145lbs or so in college, though with a 30" waist. I think that's actually a stage quite a few guys go through (particularly if they don't get enough exercise?). At the time, I thought it didn't look too good, and the revealed preferences of straight women tended to back that view up.


Posted by: JWP | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:29 PM
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I suppose the waist thing shouldn't be all that surprising, since shivbunny has about 65 pounds on me and a 34 inch waist. Neither of us are very delicately framed, though.

But it is weird that a guy could be my weight and eight inches taller.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:29 PM
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Oh, come on, ladies. You've been brainwashed by the guys into lying, but you know that that guy is totally hot.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:30 PM
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Business Formal means make your suit as boring as possible.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:31 PM
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I think that's actually a stage quite a few guys go through

I looked about average for a 17-year-old boy. And I sure didn't get any exercise, aside from walking around campus.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:31 PM
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Cala, as someone in the douchebaggy consulting industry, let me give you some advice -- while it makes sense to wonder about what to wear to the interview, after you get the job, make an absolute effort not to get caught up in the mental mindfuck about trying to fit in fashion-wise with the other female consultants. Some consulting firms are worse than a sorority when it comes to hazing and conformity. It's a game you can't win and you don't want to play. The extreme: I was on a project where whenever any of the women bought a new shirt or suit or whatever, the two female project leads made us stand in front of them as they rendered their verdict about whether they liked it or not in front of the team. Make sure you know from day one that you don't give a fuck.

That said, a conservative suit and tasteful jewelry is the way to go. And, while you hated on black suits, women consultants are all about black suits because they hide the ills of traveling well.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:32 PM
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40: He's gorgeous, sure. But he'd look much better in long pants.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:33 PM
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40: I like my men a lot heavier built. He has a very pretty face, but his body doesn't do much for me except make me think that bench pressing him could be a good fitness goal.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:33 PM
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I can't say anything bad about the attractiveness of skinny men, but jeez. Isn't the point of fashion to sell clothes?

Not entirely, I think. At least, that's not the whole of it. The point of high fashion is to cultivate a brand. The brand sells clothes, but it sells them to a limited group of the right people; if it sells too many clothes, or sells them to the wrong people, the brand loses value. So you have couture shows, which are not about selling clothes at all, but about developing the brand; and you have fashion houses that refuse to make clothes in the sizes that most regular people today could wear. Skinny models won't give a regular consumer an accurate picture of what an outfit will look like on the consumer -- a skinny model arguably won't even make the outfit look as beautiful as a fit person of a more regular size. But in the fashion context, the skinny model will make the outfit look chic and sharp. A skinny model also makes the clothes look depersonalized, which is important, because you want the outfit to project brand image.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:34 PM
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Cala, I don't think you have to do black (subject to correction by LB). Navy's fine. Gray is fine. I wonder if, being fair, you might even be able to do taupe or camel or somesuch--I should think so, if the cut and fabric are right. I known I look much better in lighter colors than in darker ones.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:34 PM
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40: The boy on the main page is adorable.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:35 PM
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36: You don't have to go with a black suit, though some of that depends on the consultancy. I've never had a problem with a medium-to-dark grey suit and bold colored shirts. Women also tend to get a bit of slack to wear just a blouse with a couple buttons undone, a solid-color top or a turtleneck under their suit.

Low heels are the typical choice, but all that really matters is that you wear nice leather shoes.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:36 PM
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32- I think it was your big hair in those days, that made you look "more substantial."


Posted by: Fleur | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:36 PM
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(And I'm not saying that you have to go with a black suit but you'll probably see a lot of them when you get hired and that's why.)


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:37 PM
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40: The boy on the main page is adorable.

I think so too.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:37 PM
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45: Cala is just lying to make the men not hate her. Panderer.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:37 PM
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Thanks, everyone. I had to go and buy a black suit. My old one was ridiculous outdated, and my other options were a camelly-gold color and a lavender-grey color, both of which are too spring-y and are about 1/2" too tight at the moment. (I can wear my eight-year-old suit, but not my six-month-old suit.)

So, time to shop for a boring shirt.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:38 PM
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50: Heh. The pictures you've seen, though, I was probably 180-190.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:38 PM
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(And an anecdote - I was on a project out of town once where one of the clients (earnestly) asked "if [our company] made us dress like stewardesses" because we all showed up on Friday in somewhat identical black suits and carrying rollaway bags.)


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:38 PM
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56: That's awesome.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:39 PM
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How cute would it be if the consultants really did all roll in in matching outfits? Like a team of munchkins is going to spit and polish your company for the big ball this evening.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:41 PM
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56: I can top that. I was on a case with a lot of depositions once, where we saw the same court reporter over and over again. Nice woman, very sharp, and dressed to the nines -- hair, nails, jewelry, makeup. I used to chat with her on breaks. The third or fourth time I saw her, she said "You know, I've been looking at you and the other lawyers, and I figured it out. They tell you not to wear makeup or do your nails in law school, don't they?"

She wasn't sniping, she thought she'd spotted a legal shibboleth. I felt awful confessing that no, we were just all slovens.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:43 PM
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Ok 6ft and 145 on a guy isn't that easy. I'm 6ft, and people tend to think I'm skinny/light. My build is a bit misleading (thick neck makes my shoulders seem smaller,etc) but I'm definitely on the slim side. My all time max weight, due to a bunch of training, was about 200lb.

145lb though? I've been there. And a bit less. But I had been living on the street for months at that point with little to eat and a pretty serious drug intake. I looked like a rail.


Posted by: Abraham Lincoln | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:44 PM
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58: That's pretty much what my law firm does. Actually, we wear identical blue warm up suits, and then we do a cheer ("GO PLAINTIFFS! [Handclap!] GO GO PLAINTIFFS!" [Handclap!]) at the start of each trial. It pretty much blows the jury away, every time.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:44 PM
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The last place I worked, before grad school, had a how to dress for success seminar with a lady who put people up in various types of dress (smart business suits, club clothes, coveralls and hardhat) and asked me who was prepared to go to work and totally didn't appreciate when I observed that it depended on their job. Also, her shoes clashed with her suit.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:45 PM
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One of my students heard my dorky cellphone ring go off, (it's me, saying "brrring! brrring!") and said "I can show you how to download ringtones, if you want."


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:45 PM
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61: You should get one of those Maori chants incorporated into your routine. "Plaintiff dies! We die! Plaintiff lives! We Live!" Bad taste if you do death penalty work, probably.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:47 PM
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145lb though? I've been there. And a bit less. But I had been living on the street for months at that point with little to eat and a pretty serious drug intake. I looked like a rail.

But hang on. For you, it required a dandy drug habit. But people vary wildly on their set points for weight. There do exist people who come by 6', 145" naturally. (That said, the guy in 28 looks gaunt.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:49 PM
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63: See, Heebie ... they still think there is hope for you. It's sweet.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:49 PM
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no, we were just all slovens

AKA "working ridiculously late hours and who gives a fuck about my nails."

One of the guys I hooked up with once said "ah, working woman's hands." I thought it was cute.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:50 PM
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63 cracks me up. As if recording your own ringtone weren't trickier than downloading someone else's.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:51 PM
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59: she thought she'd spotted a legal shibboleth. I felt awful confessing that no, we were just all slovens.

Oh! Oh! When I went up to the courtroom for jury duty, I watched as the ADA got up from his desk, and he had a GAPING hole in the crotch of his light gray trousers---maybe 8" across---with red boxers underneath. I was horrified. Who walks out of the house like that? Does he sit on the subway like that?


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:51 PM
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Where I worked before every single woman except me had a French manicure with acrylic tips.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:53 PM
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The higher the hair, the closer to God.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:54 PM
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But hang on. For you, it required a dandy drug habit. But people vary wildly on their set points for weight. There do exist people who come by 6', 145" naturally. (That said, the guy in 28 looks gaunt.)

Sure, obviously they exist. But I was trying to point out that it is really pretty extreme. I'm 6ft, and really not a big guy. I can wear some small tshirts, and tend to have a 32-34 waist.

But I had to do pretty horrible things to my body to get down to that sort of weight, so anyone who can do it comfortable is really going to have a tiny, tiny frame.


Posted by: Abraham Lincoln | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:54 PM
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I dunno, Abe. I've seen pictures. You have a stove-top hat and look pretty skinny.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:55 PM
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... we saw the same court reporter over and over again. Nice woman, very sharp, and dressed to the nines -- hair, nails, jewelry, makeup. ... I felt awful confessing that no, we were just all slovens.

I don't feel like looking for my copy, but Tom Wolfe made exactly the same point in Bonfire of the Vanities.

I wouldn't leave this guy with Labs' friend's sister's landlord. Rowr!


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:56 PM
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Yeah I was 6" and 150 in college, and pretty fit. Those were the days. My brother is my height and weighed even less, but he was a full-time track athlete.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:56 PM
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The guy in the picture looks astonishingly like a girl I went with, ages ago.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:57 PM
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I had a 30" waist though. I used to pick on those 28" stickweeds.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:57 PM
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He was a javelin.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 7:58 PM
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I had a 30" waist though. I used to pick on those 28" stickweeds.

Is this the part where we all start to muse about that pair of jeans in the back of the closet? You know, the ones that fit better than any other pair, your absolute favourite. Except now somehow the waist is 2 4 inches too small.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:00 PM
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"ah, working woman's hands."

Maybe he was under the impression that only a sex worker could be that skilled.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:00 PM
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81

78 to 69, why not.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:00 PM
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I'm reading 81 as if Zoidberg said it.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:01 PM
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That's how I wrote it!


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:02 PM
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Isn't camel a classically acceptable formal color?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:03 PM
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Not so's you'd notice looking around the office. Black, black, black.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:04 PM
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Uncertainty as to social norms and mores leads people all to act similarly and adopt what they think is the safest and most conservative manner, even if they're actually wrong about what that would have been back when such codes were more widely known and inculcated—thus demonstrating that the supposed "freedom" we currently are said to enjoy is actually far more constraining than the so-called bad old days.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:07 PM
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Who walks out of the house like that?

Probably happened after he got to work that day and he doesn't keep spare pants in the office.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:07 PM
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Golfers wear two pairs of pants.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:10 PM
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72: You are all looking pretty good here, Abe.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:11 PM
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86: My dad would agree with you, at least in the matter of clothing. He found clothing choices easier when he had to wear a suit than when he had to try to hit business casual.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:12 PM
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If everyone's wearing black, a well-cut camel suit is totally going to get you promoted. IMNHO.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:18 PM
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God, AWB, that sounds awful. It must have been an accident. I can be pretty clueless about stuff like that, but even I would notice a gaping hole.

Cala, one of these days, you, oudemia and I need to head to meet up in New York to go shopping.

I can't sew, since my motor skills are in the bottom 1% range, and I wouldn't be able to place a button properly, so I need some help finding clothes that fit which don't need too much tailoring.

I just found out that I shoudl be hand washing silk blouses instead of drycleaning them. This is good, since I don't really have the money for drycleaning, and I may be able to save the blouse I have that practcially has ring around the collar. I didn't take it to the cleaners, because I was too embarrassed.

Blume--Do you know of any good consignment stores? The cheapo thrift stores don't have clothes that fit, and the stuff in the high-end consignment stores is still more than $200 for a suit jacket.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:20 PM
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wow, you just have dinner and there is a new thread and full of comments
Navy's fine. Gray is fine.
i used to like green colour of clothes, not suits, my suits usually are dark grey or beige
now i always end up buying something brown, like almost all my sweaters are brown
is brown ok
i suspect something wrong with my mental state, may be depressed or what, subconsciously
though i consciously try to not
i don't like when people in the pics leave their mouths open, it looks so dumb, for example never liked Demi Moore for that reason
but thinness is just that, a professional liability


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:20 PM
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Your dad sounds like a swell chap, Cala.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:25 PM
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The sad thing about the pants-hole was that it was all tattery-looking, like it had gradually worn itself open over a great deal of time. All I could think was that the ADA was going through a really rough divorce and was too catatonic with rage and despair to notice that the only pants that still fit him offered no modesty for his red-clad junk. It made me like him, somehow. The defense attorney was a real slick motherfucker in a nice tailored suit.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:32 PM
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(Had they called me up for voir dire, I might have noted the prejudice in 95 so I could go back to work.)


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:33 PM
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92: I have two friends who swear by that one in Harvard Square. Second Time Around, I think it's called?

I've gotten really good at tailoring my own clothes, but it takes so frikkin' much time. I've got a pile of clothes that don't fit yet, but will when I finally get to them.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:41 PM
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I've been to the one in Harvard Square and got the black coat I was wearing last week there when they had their 50% off winter sale. Their Newbury Street location is all really high designer stuff.

I neeed to get some professional clothes very inexpensively. Jones New York which seems to be standard At places like Marshall's just doesn't fit.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:45 PM
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95: This might be a variant of an old courtroom trick ascribed to the legendary defense attorney F. Lee Bailey. The story goes that he inserted a thin wire of some sort (a straightened paperclip?) down on of his Dunhill cigarettes and began smoking it just as the prosecution began its closing arguments. As he smoked the cigarette, he never flicked the ash, which continued to cling to the end. One by one, the jurors became transfixed by the sight of the ludicrously long ash, and they all sat watching it and waiting for it to fall onto the table, ignoring the prosecutor and his closing summation.

No idea if this story is true, but as the saying goes, it's too good to check.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:45 PM
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This is the closest thing I have seen recently to an interior design thread that I have seen, so here goes:
I am constructing in my apartment an ego wall consisting of famous photographs of cruelty and injustice with my face photoshopped in. For instance, I've successfully put my face on the Vietnamese girl running away from napalm or whatever, and I'm working on putting my face on this. Any suggestions on other photos to photoshop? Surely the Vietnam war cannot be the only source of photographic horror?


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:47 PM
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92: You do know about Garment District, right? It's like 80% chick, but I still love it.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:49 PM
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99: I heard that same story from my dad, which I'll treat as independent corroboration.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:52 PM
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Even in Milan last month at shows like Dolce & Gabbana and Dsquared

D^2 is a fashion designer?

Slightly on topic, I was shocked to learn recently that "ideal competitive weight" for male runners is typically considered to be two times their height in inches. For a 6 footer like me, that's only 144 pounds. I knew I was bigger than the real runners, but I didn't think it was by that much. I'm presently 200, have some more weight to lose, but think 56 would leave me too skinny.

I did however PR Sunday's half marathon in 1:39-something. Me in pain.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:52 PM
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I am constructing in my apartment an ego wall consisting of famous photographs of cruelty and injustice with my face photoshopped in.

That's very weird. If I were at a party at your apartment and I saw this, I'd say "Wow. That's very weird."


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:55 PM
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104 gets it right. I will now find it hard to take foolishmortal's opinions seriously. Sorry.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:56 PM
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103: Me in pain.

That guy next to you seems to be laboring a bit as well.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:57 PM
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Nice pointy nipples, Otto.

I am constructing in my apartment an ego wall consisting of famous photographs of cruelty and injustice with my face photoshopped in.

That's weird, dude. Worthy of respect, but weird. I think it needs its own post.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:57 PM
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106: I am the guy on the right.


Posted by: Otto von Bisquick | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 8:58 PM
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100: foolishmortal, don't you live in Somerville? You must have a meetup at your house when this project is completed, because I want to see it. I can't think of a photograph, but why not photoshop your self onto a nice crucifixion, or a martydom of St. Sebastian? Or St. George stabbing a dragon with your face on it? Just for a change.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:00 PM
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Me in pain.

Nice rack.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:00 PM
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Jones New York which seems to be standard At places like Marshall's just doesn't fit.

This isn't you, BG, their stuff is just boxy and shapeless.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:01 PM
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Are catholics committed to the existence of dragons?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:02 PM
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112: Looks like it. St. Martha is also frequently shown accompanied by a small dragon, because she led one out of a town it was annoying, and either converted it or stabbed it, I forget which. Maybe they're extinct now.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:04 PM
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Ooh, mcmc's right-- there must be lots of martyrdom paintings. Though if you went that route I guess it would lose a little of the edge and become silly much faster. "Look, here I am in a Bosch painting!"


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:05 PM
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foolishmortal, that's super awesome. What about Paris Hilton being led away to jail, or some Olympic loser's heartbroken face or something?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:05 PM
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You know, foolish, I read your comment and I was sure--sure--that w-lfs-n had written it. (Until, of course, I saw that it was yours.)

How about some Holocaust pictures? Or hey, there are a few pictures of Algerians being beaten by cops during the 1961 demonstration--most of them were probably pushed into the Seine to drown or shot in the police yard later, so that should qualify. Or how about just photoshopping yourself into one of those memorials to that guy the British cops shot?

I've got to say, if you're going for some beyond-perverse-and-also-beyond-criticism hipster thingy, you win. Definitely a nice "fuck you and your teeny-tiny liberal feelings" vibe.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:06 PM
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"Look, here I am in a Bosch painting!"

He could put his face on every face in a Bosch painting. That would be pretty awesome.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:06 PM
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I guess I find the photoshopping of Vietnam pix pretty disturbing, but I love the Bosch idea, as well as the martyrs. Saint Sebastian is teh best.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:08 PM
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117: And then he could give each face googly eyes!


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:08 PM
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117: Wow.

(Must finish re-reading the text I'm teaching in the morning. Will not open photoshop.)


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:08 PM
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108: Ah, maybe foolishmortal can use it on his wall
(and such low-hanging fruit was destined to be mutiply plucked).

And fm, I have to say that I agree that this is an unusual and somewhat morbid project. I started looking for some, but then when I found this one (Kent State), for instance, it just ... I don't know, but go for it I guess.

Another one.

There are some famous lynching pictures out there ... how far do you want to go? Stills from Nick Berg beheading, or Saddam hanging videos? I am sure they are out there.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:09 PM
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So all right, I'll ask the question that no one is asking: why, foolish? Is it really to show contempt for that whole truth-shall-make-you-free/let-us-now-praise-famous-men approach? Is it to impress the chicks in your set? Is it for the thrill of out-perversing your friends? I know that the author is dead and all that (appropriately enough in this case), but I'm still curious.


Posted by: Frowner | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:12 PM
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Sacco and Vanzetti?
http://www.viewimages.com/Search.aspx?mid=2635665&epmid=1&partner=Google


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:14 PM
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brown, as i looked up, means sadness and isolation
if negative, if positive it means all good things as they say
i'm glad that i'm totally normal, comparatively
good night


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:14 PM
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Yes, I am rather weird (and Salome carrying my head would make me happy). But nevermind that, 92 was asking about used clothes: the Goodwill at Davis Square is a gold mine if you're willing to put time into it. Yes, there are random homeless people wandering about, and no, there are no changing rooms, but if you put three hours into browsing I guarantee at least one find, and nothing is over two dollars. Garment District is awesome, and there are vintage shops all over Boston, but Goodwill Davis is the real deal.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:15 PM
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Damn, there are a lot of paintings of Saint Sebastian.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:15 PM
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This topic now has its own post.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:16 PM
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Saint Sebastian is teh best.

Saint Sebastian could easily be a male model.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:22 PM
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76: a girl I went with

Was this circa 1950, soup?


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:23 PM
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Hush up, SK. I like that locution.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:26 PM
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All the gin that remains to me in the world is in a glass in front of me and a bit to the left.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:32 PM
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My honey wears a 28" waist. With a belt. Seriously though, he really is just built very slim. The guy on the main page? He's not meant to be as skinny as he is; he'll put on more normal dimensions once he's off whatever starvation diet he's on (or once he hits like 22).

My exboyfriend used to work in fashion, and he claimed that back in the 1990s the male runway models were just sort of average goodlooking guys who were pretty fun to hang out with but that they've all become professionalised and be-divaed.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 9:34 PM
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Most cyclists are similarly proportioned but with larger legs depending on their specialty. I am about 6'1" about 160 lbs, so I am a GC/Overall racer. Someone with bigger legs would typically be a sprinter. Someone with skinnier legs would typically be a pure climber. Someone with even skinnier legs would be a runner.


Posted by: Willy Voet | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 10:00 PM
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back in the 1990s the male runway models were just sort of average goodlooking guys who were pretty fun to hang out

I have a very good and old friend who was a male model back in the late 80s/90s. And yes, he was extremely good looking (still is, only he inherited his dad's unfortunate pattern baldness thing) and a really fabulous person.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 02- 7-08 10:40 PM
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23 is right.

I think the weight is far more shocking than the waist measurement. I wear a 28-29 inch waist, but he must have no shoulders or something.

A lot depends on age. I knew a lot of kids who were probably in a similar height-weight range who didn't fill out until their 20s. So, that sort of weight/build wouldn't be freakily unusual on a 17 or 18 year old, I don't think.

At 20 I probably weighed in the mid 140s, and was in the same weight range as this guy, and at 22 in the high 160s/low 170s. At both ages I had a 28-30 inch waist. However, I'm a bit shorter, which I suppose makes 145 and 6ft a bit skinnier.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 12:03 AM
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23 is sort of right, I meant.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 12:04 AM
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I could have been a model in college? - normal weight back then 140 - 145 at 6-2, though a 29 waist. And plenty of food and exercise, at least for my lower body. Even now it's only about 165


Posted by: tkm | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 1:35 AM
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hey by the way, ttaM, I just dropped into the cruiserweight class with a print at 90.0kg. How's that bet of yours going?


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 2:36 AM
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re: 138

I'm doing totally shit, tbh. So far, in 4 weeks, I've lost about 6lbs so unless I speed up an inordinate amount, there's no way I'll lose another 14-15 or so [which is what I'd need to make the target] by the end of the first week of March . Last time I was on a similar diet I lost about 14lbs in the first 4 weeks.

To make matters worse, I'm actually sticking to the bloody diet, so I can't blame 'cheating'. I have torn a muscle, which means I've missed two of the last five kickboxing sessions, but that's not really an excuse.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 3:57 AM
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Further to 138

I weigh around 103kg, so I'm considerably porkier than you. My target was to get down to about 96 or 97 by early March. I might still make it.

[Come to think of it, I've lost a little over 3kg. Still, I'm at least 2 weeks behind where I need to be.]


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 4:03 AM
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Hey, when I was a journalist I had a linen suit that repeatedly split in the thighs; I must have stitched the fucker five or six times. Because I couldn't afford to replace it. I've still got the jacket.

Reasons to quit journalism, part the first...


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 4:12 AM
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I saw this post last night and thought about getting up int he comment thread, but instead ate an entire pint of ice cream and went to bed. I feel better about that by the light of day then I expected to.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 5:25 AM
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Is this the "I need to lose weight thread"???

This kid is clearly divorced. You don't get that skinny without drugs or divorce.

I feel better this morning bc I swam. Still fat, but getting better.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:13 AM
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I felt better about the ice cream because I yoga'd before it. I yoga'd hard. That, to me, is the essence of balance.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:31 AM
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Sybil and I have the same brain. ice cream s/b baklava though.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:37 AM
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a serious allergy to walnuts dooms me to a life w/out ever knowing baklava.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:40 AM
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I had a bagel with cream cheese and cherry butter last night. I can't think of any reason not to go have another right now.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:42 AM
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You let a little swelling, redness and shortness of breathe stop you from experiencing deliciousness?

Think of it as a hard work out, yoga girl.

Actually, a serious case of big bellyness should doom me to a life without baklava. But, I am weak. Oh so weak.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:43 AM
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Nápi, I think you're in danger of being a fifth wheel in this little tête-à-tête between Sybil and Will.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:43 AM
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I had a bagel with cream cheese and cherry butter last night. I can't think of any reason not to go have another right now.

I think you deserve it! Think of all those calories your wife has burnt dragon boating.

Go with the family share plan of caloric intake v. exercise.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:44 AM
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Napi can come, I like cherry butter.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:44 AM
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Knecht:

Don't give me crap just because you are skinny. I'm telling fleur.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:46 AM
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Napi can come, I like cherry butter.

It's OK, Nápi, Sybil already asked your wife for permission.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:46 AM
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When I was 14 or so, I was making out with a boyfriend who had earlier int he day eaten brownies with walnuts, and my lips swelled up to touch my nose. What a humiliating way to have one's family all know about the severity of one's allergy.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:46 AM
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Don't give me crap just because you are skinny.

Ironically, I was just telling Fleur this morning that I needed to lose weight because my trousers are all getting too tight. She thinks its the antidepressants. I'm hoping that my Lenten abstention from alcohol will help me drop a few pounds, as it usually has in the past.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:48 AM
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I used to regularly buy bagels or donuts for my office. Another lawyer regular brought a bunch of chips for lunch. Clients regularly drop off junk food.

Finally, we collectively decided that we needed a scale on the floor. Now, we have Monday morning weigh ins.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:49 AM
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Now, we have Monday morning weigh ins

'Cause it wouldn't be fair to let a bantam-weight lawyer go up against a middle-weight lawyer in court, right?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:50 AM
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OK, I could think of one reason: I'm a goddam whale. Guess what? The cherry butter is worth it.

I don't cook, but I think it just might be worth making cherry butter.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:51 AM
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When I was 14 or so, I was making out with a boyfriend who had earlier int he day eaten brownies with walnuts, and my lips swelled up to touch my nose. What a humiliating way to have one's family all know about the severity of one's allergy.

Add swelling of hands, feet or other body parts and the story gets much funnier.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:51 AM
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154 SW, that's so funny!
A Happy New Year of Mouse! And Happy Birthdays all!


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:52 AM
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sorry, SV, i always read your name like Waine, not Vane, just automatically


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:55 AM
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And I think I can even do it:

Ingredients

2 quarts cherries pitted
1 cup water
1 cup pineapple crushed
2 tablespoons lemon juice
4 cups sugar

Directions

Combine all ingredients.
Cook slowly, stirring frequently, until thick.



Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:55 AM
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This one requires more action, but probably tastes better.

2 cups dried cherries (6 oz)*
2 fuji apples, cored, peeled and finely diced
4 cups brewed Orange Pekoe Tea
1/3 cup packed brown sugar
1 tb Almond liqueur

Combine cherries, apples and tea in a heavy saucepan. Bring to a boil, then reduce heat to low and simmer gently, uncovered, for 20 to 25 minutes or until the cherries are plump and the apples are very soft. With a slotted spoon, transfer the fruit to a food processor or blender and process until smooth. (Do not discard cooking liquid in saucepan.) Return the puree to the saucepan and stir in brown sugar and almond liqueur. Bring to a boil, reduce heat to low and simmer, stirring often, for about 1 hour and 20 minutes, or until thick and pasty. Let cool.



Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 6:59 AM
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154- Why, read, happy new year to you, too. Since I am a rat, I hope for a great year.


Posted by: asl | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 7:06 AM
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When I was 14 or so, I was making out with a boyfriend who had earlier int he day eaten brownies with walnuts, and my lips swelled up to touch my nose. What a humiliating way to have one's family all know about the severity of one's allergy.

Sound like a cautionary tale like Struwwelpeter:

"Sybil Vane, a little girl who secretly did naughty things with a boy, only to find certain parts of her body swelling up to an enormous size."

There could be an X-rated version and a G-rated version depending on the audience.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 7:11 AM
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"Sybil Vane, a little girl who secretly did naughty things with a boy, only to find certain parts of her body swelling up to an enormous size."

Hasnt a similar story been done on from the boy's perspective?

Sybil did naughty things with a boy, causing certain parts of his body to swell up to an enormous size?


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 7:20 AM
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I am liberating the Struwwelpeter story from the androcentric frame, Will. No longer will small disobediences lead to terrible deaths only for boys. In my book, girls too will gain full personhood and get what's coming to them.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 7:28 AM
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91: I'm not dead sure that this is true, but I do kind of think that way (that wearing something that's completely within the dress code, but somewhat unusual, looks confident and statusy). I like light-colored suits, and while I wear a fair amount of black (and my favorite suit is navy pinstripe, I think light grey and light brown both look confident. I've had and liked camel suits, but I don't have one now.

But I'm working in law firms, where as long as you're in a suit (or not, depending on business casualness), you're not necessarily expected to be a fashion plate. A more fashiony industry might penalize wearing something unusual more heavily.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 7:31 AM
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There definitely was no swelling to enormous size on his part. "Enormous size"makes it less of a cautionary tale and more of a fantasy.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 7:54 AM
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There would be two versions, I think, one a cautionary tale and one porn.

I think that Will was referring to the normal "swelling to enormous size" that occurs in guys' pants in such situations.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 7:57 AM
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Me too.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 7:59 AM
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Bc of read, I am now singing "Vane's World! Party On! Excellent!! Schwing!"


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 8:02 AM
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164, Asl
Today is our New Year's day, it's a little different from the Chinese, they call it the year of Rat and it was yesterday, we call it Mouse, the yr of the yellow mouse
In old days the New Year day was considered a day when all people turn older one yr, now it's an obsolete custom
people born this yr are usually beautiful, industrious, active, leaders, financially successful, but can hide their true nature very well


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 8:03 AM
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What a horrible boy! He caused you grief and didn't even get aroused.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 8:11 AM
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and because it's your yr, it's one of those risky yrs, so you have to be careful
but the preceding yr is riskier (because we count the yr, 10 mo, in one's mother's body already as the first yr of life, so 36 yrs old means for example 37 for us, so it's that yr of cataclisms :) and hope it was good for you


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 8:18 AM
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Forget yoga. Forget swimming. Even forget divorce and heroin. This is the way to get skinny:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9_amg-Aos4


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 8:35 AM
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You can make baklava with almonds or pistachios, if it's just walnuts that you're allergic to.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 8:36 AM
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176: That commercial gives me a special feeling.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 8:46 AM
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176.--Hawaii-chairs might be the perfect chairs for compulsive fidgeters like myself. The rotating parts would probably break down immediately, however.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 8:57 AM
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The rotating parts would probably break down immediately

The rotating parts of the chair or of you?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 9:04 AM
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Now that I think about it, that spot where I separated my ribs (or whatever I did) would probably start spasming within fiften minutes on that thing.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 9:09 AM
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I am liberating the Struwwelpeter story from the androcentric frame, Will. No longer will small disobediences lead to terrible deaths only for boys. In my book, girls too will gain full personhood and get what's coming to them.

Oh, Heinrich Hoffmann was an equal opportunity scold. The Struwwelpeter book also contains the story of Pauline (Die gar traurige Geschichte mit dem Feuerzeug), who suffers a similarly terrible fate as a result of her misbehavior.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 10:56 AM
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All that is left is her shoes!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 10:57 AM
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As a counter example---I checked out a couple of episodes of Gossip Girl in order to keep up with my students' allusions and I was shocked at how buff the "17-year old" boys are. It made me worry about boys going nuts on the weightlifting and roids in order to make sure their chest has the right profile. I teach sophomores and I can see the guys start worrying about these things now too.

Among adults, my current hottie of choice weighs 150 lbs and is 6 feet tall. He think he's too skinny and is trying to buff up, but I have to admit there is a certain charm to his lankiness that I hadn't really contemplated before the contemplation became convenient.


Posted by: Ile | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 1:01 PM
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Mmmmmmm. Girls' shoe's. Tasty.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 3:45 PM
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176: Did that guy say "That feels great on my ass"?


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 9:28 PM
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182: I am now listening to the Tiger Lillies' Shockheaded Peter. So great.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 9:33 PM
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Nobody addressed the Serious Question of the post:

The article is full of explanations about why designers or consumers or editors want this look, but isn't it just that fashion needs to change to keep being fashion? Is this convincing?

Yes. No.

Yes, fashion just needs to keep changing, because it's about the manufacture of elite style, and must necessarily be available only to the few who have the wherewithal (time, money) to follow the trends, change wardrobes or bodies (or electronic gizmos) constantly; and it constructs and perpetuates a desire in the rest of us to aspire to that class, membership in which must be constantly ephemeral, because once we've approximated it, it has become ... merely common.

No? Too simple? It may just be that we're terrified of death.

I've been reading, like, sociology and cultural studies and shit lately. Perhaps you can tell.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 9:58 PM
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176, 178: Fans of the G4 show "Attack of the Show" (or, more accurately, fans of Olivia Munn) will appreciate this even more.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 02- 8-08 10:26 PM
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