Swimming's all about pacing, right?
I thought about making that joke, dammit.
He can do it because of the relaxed stroke.
Impressive though.
This is not the caucus joke blog, heebie.
Oh. I should go to apostropher.com?
I think it overstates things to say that a single 100 free (short course yards) in :52 is "bad ass." In a practice setting, from a push (i.e., not diving from a starting block), I'd say that it's strong, but something most DI males could do. Better for perspective: 5 x 100 at :52 = a 4:20 500 free. That's well under NCAA championship qualifying time, not even considering time gained from a block start. Also, I'm not sure anything in swimming can be properly called bad ass.
something most DI males could do
Well, yes, exactly, it's a decent time for a male Division I swimmer, and I was trying to put it in perspective for non-swimmers.
Is a 52 sec 100 in swimming similar to a sub 11 sec 100 in track? If so that's VERY impressive.
Also, I'm not sure anything in swimming can be properly called bad ass.
This may depress a small segment of the unfoggedetariat, but it's true. Some sports allow the possibility of bad ass. Swimming isn't really one of them.
Come on phred!!! DI swimmers are impressive! Don't forget that.
You are talking about a very small percentage of the population.
Is a 52 sec 100 in swimming similar to a sub 11 sec 100 in track?
No, it's not that badass. I mean, the record for the 100 yard free is just under 42 seconds, so it's not like he's going at sprint pace, but I'm comparing what he's doing to what a fit, relatively competent non-competitive swimmer might do at the pool, and 52 seconds is very fast by those standards, and holding it for 15 100s in a row is amazing.
Actually, I would say that if you cannot do a :52 from a push, you probably couldnt swim in a D1 program.
12:
Ok I got you. Actually I doubt 15 sub 11 sec 100s is even humanly possible. That'd put you at 2:30 minute mile pace.
It's interesting trying to convert numbers in swimming to numbers in sports that I'm more familiar with. The numbers I see suggest that swimming is very very hard.
15: Perhaps the more comparable numbers would be minutes/mile. There's got to be a number there that, while achievable once for many runners, is pretty impressive to hold for 15 miles (without being world class).
13: I disagree based upon the existence of breaststrokers.
12: That's right. :52 is not a good 100 time (from a block, in a race), but it is pretty difficult to do overall.
So I got a swimming etiquette question. You're swimming laps in a crowded pool, say there are four people in a lane. Each is doing a different workout, some are faster than others.
Coming into the wall, it's clear that swimmer A is going to pass swimmer B. Should swimmer B stop briefly at the wall and, as it were, yield right of way, permitting the passing to occur with the least possible jamming of traffic? Or should swimmer B keep swimming, and let the forces of the free market act as they will?
I usually just take the number of seconds it takes to complete the event and compare to the running event that takes the same time. 100 yard free at 42 seconds is like the 400 meter run at 43 seconds. The 100 yard free at 19 seconds is like the 200 yard run in 19 seconds. That gives you an idea of what it's like to string some of these times together.
17:
breaststrokers and divers dont really count.
Slolernr:
Slow down to let the other person pass. Maybe even hesitate at the wall.
Should swimmer B stop briefly at the wall and, as it were, yield right of way
I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, with the added note that I think the rule is that the faster swimmer will tap the slower swimmer's foot to indicate that he wants to pass.
But, in fact, if there are four people to a lane, I just go home. Only child, you know.
See, I usually do, when I'm swimmer B. But other people, not so considerate, when I'm swimmer A.
tap the slower swimmer's foot
You would actually touch another person?!?!?!?!
breaststrokers ... dont really count.
Will, is it my fault that you can't swim all four strokes?
You would actually touch another person?!?!?!?!
Re-read 22, friend.
If they do not slow down, etiquette requires that you increase your speed and move to the middle. Then, as your head passes their waist, place your elbow in the middle of their back and your hand at their neck. Push down and back forcefully and move on.
52/42=1.24, so there's your "relative to the world record" multiplier.
Most people have run a 400m, right? And that's at least somewhat comparable to a 100m swim in terms of sprint vs distance, right? Maybe the 200m run is closer, but the 400m is close enough.
So, it would be like repeatedly running a 400m in 53.5s (wr=43.18s).
Will is right, at least as a sprinter. It is certainly way faster than anyone who didn't swim competitively for several years could ever hope to do.
Or, to put it another way, I know a few people who do triathlons and seem to do all right who would have trouble doing the exact same set except 50s instead of 100s.
24: I was actually reading a handout on this while watching my kids' lesson, and it explicitly instructed faster swimmers to tap, and then pass at the wall. So, if you're swimming at Asphalt Green in NY, you tap. Globally, I don't know.
Ogged:
I am currently training hard so that I can beat my friend's 10 year old daughter. In a couple of months, I am going to challenge her.
Most people have run a 400m, right?
Most of what people?
19: What I was thinking was that pretty much nobody sprints recreationally (running), so they won't have a feel for it.
Asphalt Green in NY
I swam there! Great pool.
World record Men's 1500m free-style: 14:34.56 by Grant Hackett (Australia)
World record Men's 1500m (running): 3:26.00 by Hicham El Guerrouj (Morocco)
So
15 52 sec 100s in a row is like doing
15 12.26 sec 100s in a row.
Very impressive.
Fine, fine.
Tapping is the correct approach. Grabbing their ankle and pulling might be a little aggressive.
Most people understand the hierarchy. If you are catching them quickly, they will move over.
Slol, if they are rude, run them down.
Based on what people say about triathlons, running is about 4x as fast as swimming, and biking is another 2x faster than that. Which means that an actual "sprint" triathlon should be a 100m swim, 400m run, and 800m bike. Probably in bike-run-swim order.
Re-read 22, friend.
Still. I'm reeling that you would even recommend it.
HS gym class. Physical fitness tests and all that jazz. Does that not happen any more?
Slol, if they are rude, run them down.
What if swimmer B is a girl?
I know a few people who do triathlons and seem to do all right
Many triatheletes are relatively weak swimmers, it being a running race essentially. But still that's not a bad comparison, because they mostly are in pretty good shape.
Slol, if they are rude, run them down.
You can also go to the middle, get far enough past them that your head is about at their hands, and then move back to your side to run them into the lane line.
Slolernr:
Same rules apply. Swimming knows no gender. There are plenty of girls who will kick your (and my) ass if they can. No mercy for them just as they would show no mercy to you.
Slol, if they are rude, run them down.
Seriously, a lot of people just have no idea about swimming etiquette and it should be up to the guards to post rules and enforce them. Wingnut Lifeguard, stoner, racist, crazy person, is great about this, but he seems to be a rare breed. You might want to say something to the guards or their supervisor.
Even for short distances, bike-run-swim is probably a bad idea. Maybe with lanes. But your assuming they'll spend the same amount of time on each event, which isn't close to right for long tris as they stand now.
Of course, as a liberal, I'm all for bringing the boot heel of institutional power down on the neck of individuals.
Ogged is right. People have no clue.
too many people think that they are entitled to their own lane.
Guards should post the rules better.
Even for short distances, bike-run-swim is probably a bad idea. Maybe with lanes. But your assuming they'll spend the same amount of time on each event, which isn't close to right for long tris as they stand now.
The sprint trialthon would have to run heats, like all sane races of that length do. Bike, run to the pool, swim a long course 100. Probably lanes to account for having to run different distances to get to your lane. Prelims in the morning, finals at night.
One question about relative stamina.
For competitive sprinters, the 400m is a sprint. However, for most people, it probably isn't (ie they can't go anywhere near full speed for the duration).
Can the average swimmer do 100m at full sprint?
50 heats would make sense, but you'd still probably have trouble in the water. Going bike-run rather than run-bike is probably an improvement, but swim-bike-run still seems better to me.
It would be a strange form of race though, with weird tradeoffs.
It's hard to judge how hard the elite levels of any sport are unless you've participated in the lower levels of that sport.
I watch swimming on TV at the Olympics. They all go fast. I cheer (because swimming is awesome to watch on TV) and Phelps wins! But I have no idea of how hard what he is doing is compared to what an average fit adult could manage.
Elite athletes are really on another planet.
Can the average swimmer do 100m at full sprint?
Depends on how you define average. If you are very good, you can do it as a full sprint. If you are only pretty good, you have to do the first 25 or so "almost as fast as you can possibly go." Less than that and you start having to seriously think about pace.
Can the average swimmer do 100m at full sprint?
If average=amateur, then no; if average=median DI swimmer, then not quite but close; if average=median world-class swimmer, then yes, just about.
Elite athletes are really on another planet hormone.
Elite athletes are really on another planet.
This is true. Many drugged too, but even before that they are aways off in the distance from what a hobbyist will do.
It would be a strange form of race though, with weird tradeoffs.
No doubt. It's mainly something I kick around because it offends me greatly when an athletic event that takes more than an hour gets called a sprint.
Bike-run-swim seems like it would make for easier and faster transitions. I can't tell if you'd want to wear shoes or not.
It's hard to judge how hard the elite levels of any sport are unless you've participated in the lower levels of that sport.
That's really true, isn't it? So many little things in sports look so effortless when done by professionals that you don't even see them when watching unless you've tried to do the same yourself.
ogged will cry that I skirt up his thread, but the little turns that figure skaters do in between multi-revolution jumps that look like they're just as easy as walking? Years to learn. Years.
There's a realization that for some of these things, it's not just a matter of practice and hard work. If your natural talent level peters out at high school sprints, that's where it goes.
Bike-run-swim seems like it would make for easier and faster transitions. I can't tell if you'd want to wear shoes or not.
Biking barefoot is dispreferred.
What if swimmer B is a girl?
Cop a feel as you pass. That'll encourage her to keep her pace up, so as to not give you an opportunity to do that again.
The 400 running = 100 swimming conversion isn't exact, I suppose, but the 400m is only just barely a sprint now. When I was a kid it was middle-distance. It's not impossible that the 800 m. might become a near sprint someday, at least if someone calls off the drug prohibitionists.
The use of the word "stud" here reminds me of the reason I decided exercising regularly should be part of my daily routine.
I felt fine doing just about anything, but sexual intercourse, the very thing humans were born to do, took too much energy for me. So I figured that in earlier generations every single person on earth who ended up having children was in better shape than I currently am. This was jarring. So, getting in shape became a higher priority than it had been.
"Are you sexually active?"
"Nah, mostly I just lie there."
60: This is especially true in sports that peak early. I faced this a bit, but luckily in a way injuries & knee problems suggested I should bail at 14 or so ... if I'd have kept at it until 18 I would had the wrong build to really make it. But even at that age we were training 6 days/week pretty hard. The weird thing was that the things you're learning to do don't seem too crazy to you because all the people you train with can do it, and there's always someone a year ahead or whatever who is vastly better than you.
Then one day your middle school phys ed rotation hits something related to what you're doing, and you look round one day to see your entire class picking their jaws up off the floor.
66: Any reason for presidentiality?
for that matter, fit people can manage more positions. Not that this is exactly the same as `good' ... but hey, variety being the spice of life etc.
67 I've had some pseud slippage before and this is an fairly identifying detail.
Someone might realize who you are based on your elementary/middle school athletic skills?
Wow.
Pretty amazing by any measure. (And since I unconsciously carry times from 30+ years around as my standard, it seems almost ridiculous.)
One note is that a comparable running feat would probably be a bit slower since running in general has a more rapid fall off of sustainable speed with distance. For instance what follows are a sequence of the speeds of world records in men's swimming and running for roughly comparable distances starting with 50 meters and 200 meters respectively (expressed as the ratio to the speed of the shortest distance).
Swimming Running
50 1.0 200 1.0
100 .90 400 .89
200 .86 800 .77
400 .79 1500 .70
800 .75 3000 .66
1500 .74 5000 .64
So in the video, the coach mentions something the swimmer's doing technically wrong with his arm—crossing past the center line, or somesuch. What does he mean, and why is it bad?
not as much power when you drop your elbow or not snapping hips at the correct time.
Michael is crossing when he breathes. It is a common problem. Obviously, he is still extremely fast.
74: You mean crossing his hand under his body as he turns his head to breathe? Hmph.
Aha. Thanks for the clarifications will. (And let no one mistake this line of questioning as an endorsement of the wussy swimming posts.)
Stanley is secretly training for the next Unfogged relay. He will be my team's secret weapon.
Um... yeah tris typically don't split time evenly between the sports.
anyhow, i've got an appt with the orthopaedist tomorrow to make sure there's nothing wrong with my achilles, but barring anything dramatic... 42 days to go.
Which tri are you doing tweedledopey?
Good luck with the achilles.
IM Arizona. MRI scheduled for tomorrow night (I have achilles tendonities (yes, I like the spelling that way better)) to make sure I haven't started tearing it.
Have to brag about an old friend, Matt Cetlinski, who did 100 100's on a minute at age 40. I asked him how come? He said "I felt pretty good after the first 20 and just kept going." He had a 3:48 400 in the '88 trials in Austin. I've never seen anything like him and until Tom Dolan came along about 15 years later, no one else had either.