Re: Cultural Norming

1

Oh, yeah, you're getting back into the country. Hope the boss lets you telecommute.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:14 PM
horizontal rule
2

Yolanda? Really?


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:17 PM
horizontal rule
3

It's "Yankee". Not "Yolanda".

"How about 'Yoni'?"


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:17 PM
horizontal rule
4

Whenever I need to use letter words over the phone I just make them up on the fly. And I tend to only use them for s/f and d/p.


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:18 PM
horizontal rule
5

I knew a Jolanda in high school, so you're not really winning on clarity. And there's that extra syllable.

Yogi?


Posted by: KRK | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:23 PM
horizontal rule
6

I live on the eighth floor, and giving my address over the phone there's always confusion as to whether I'm saying '8' or 'H'. So I say '8 as in octopus', which for some reason doesn't clarify things. I'm not sure why that doesn't work -- it'd make sense to me.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:24 PM
horizontal rule
7

Yoda.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:24 PM
horizontal rule
8

Sorry, Becks, but affirmative racialism doesn't excuse three syllables. Try again.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:26 PM
horizontal rule
9

yogurt


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:27 PM
horizontal rule
10

My current, soon-to-change position involves managing and working a few shifts on a very limited support line, and I'm always surprised by the people who leap straight to saying words instead of letters when trying to give me a ticker symbol. Is it really that hard to hear?


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:28 PM
horizontal rule
11

it's also "tango" and "romeo." why wasp-ize "tango" and "romeo" and de-wasp "yankee"? i don't get it.


Posted by: katie | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:29 PM
horizontal rule
12

I just have to say that it should be "Yolanda." And "Yankee." Not "Yolanda". Not "Yankee".

Periods and commas: always inside quotation marks. Unless you have some good reason to leave them out in the cold.

/pendantic punctuation point


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:30 PM
horizontal rule
13

'. So I say '8 as in octopus', which for some reason doesn't clarify things

You should say, "8, like The Ocho."


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:32 PM
horizontal rule
14

11 - That was my thought, exactly.

Also, this post about flights serves as a notice that I'm going on vacation (and hiating) for a week. Try not to burn the place down!


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:36 PM
horizontal rule
15

Tijauana Fiver Railroad Yeti Two Seven


Posted by: tweedledopey | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:37 PM
horizontal rule
16

Periods and commas: always inside quotation marks. Unless you have some good reason to leave them out in the cold.

Good reason = making use-mention distinction, rather than quoting something.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:42 PM
horizontal rule
17

The NATO system has "Yankee," but in that system you would have started "Tango Five Romeo." Probably different systems mixing.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:42 PM
horizontal rule
18

12: I put periods or commas inside quotation marks if and only if the period or comma is part of what I'm quoting, e.g. when I'm quoting an entire sentence, or the end of a sentence, that someone else wrote.

If I'm quoting a single word in order to refer to that word, I put the period or comma outside the quotation marks, because it's not part of the word.

The "always inside" rule is stupid and makes no sense.


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:43 PM
horizontal rule
19

Periods and commas: always inside quotation marks. Unless you have some good reason to leave them out in the cold.

I do have some good reasons to put them outside the quotation marks. Do you have some good reason to insist that they go inside?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:44 PM
horizontal rule
20

By my reasoning articulated in 18, Becks' post is perfectly punctuated.

(Although I agonize over how to form the possessive of singular proper nouns ending in "s". Should I add the extra "s" after the apostrophe, or not? This is especially agonizing because my last name ends in "s".)


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:46 PM
horizontal rule
21

Full stop, not period.

Geez.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:46 PM
horizontal rule
22

Despite my internet typing, I love The Elements of Style. I also loved Eat, Shoots, and Leaves.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:47 PM
horizontal rule
23

11: You forgot "foxtrot," which sounds a little racy.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:49 PM
horizontal rule
24

20: [Coughs loudly.] Or mine in 16.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:50 PM
horizontal rule
25

Motherfuck putting the motherfucking punctuation marks inside the quotation marks. I feel more strongly about that than I do Clinton versus Obama or the War in Iraq.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:50 PM
horizontal rule
26

I was just happy to see m/tch show up. I was worried that we lost him after the Texas primary. An angry Kraab is a dangerous kraab.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:51 PM
horizontal rule
27

I can't believe he corrected you.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:52 PM
horizontal rule
28

I'm cranky that my flight to Chicago this evening was cancelled, though I guess better now that after I got to the airport.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:53 PM
horizontal rule
29

Blume:

Strunk clearly states that it is *coughs loudly* and not [coughs loudly].


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:53 PM
horizontal rule
30

20: Don't agonize, add that "s"!

Mr. Jones's kitty jello recipe won the blue ribbon; Ms. Harris's recipe was disqualified for its high puppy content.

Plurals are harder. The Joneses' recipe and The Harrises' puppies. Yikes.


Posted by: KRK | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:54 PM
horizontal rule
31

Probably different systems mixing

Systems? I think Becks was making it up as she went along. Suddenly the clerk couldn't take it anymore. Damned Yankees.

The ITU/NATO alphabet isn't hard to learn. But I grew up watching WWII movies (with Able for A) plus Dragnet and Adam-12, so those were the styles I learned first. Having a set memorized does save time though. No fishing through the memory for a name that starts with P and has a P sound.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:55 PM
horizontal rule
32

Than, better than.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:55 PM
horizontal rule
33

I must not have gotten to that part yet! I just got the book for Christmas this year, the edition with the illustrations by Maira Kalman. Haven't finished it yet.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:56 PM
horizontal rule
34

31: I thought it was A for Abel.


Posted by: KRK | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:58 PM
horizontal rule
35

27 - you can't believe that she corrected me, you sexist.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:59 PM
horizontal rule
36

As long as we're being pedantic, I will note that the "alpha, bravo . . . yankee zulu" system was developed was so that the words would be 1) short and 2) easily distinguishable from one another over a sketchy radio connection. So "yankee" was not a random choice. (Consider inevitable comment on "zulu" to be here.)

/childhood spent on boats>


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 1:59 PM
horizontal rule
37

Do you have some good reason to insist that they go inside?

Because it's the rule, according to The Chicago Manual of Style, which I use at work, and Joseph Williams' Style, which I was taught at school, and Strunk and White's Elements of Style, which is another standard reference for such things. Because they look funny hanging on the outside of the quotation marks like that, imho. Because it's a silly pet peeve of mine to see it done differently. Because I am a punctuation pedant, perhaps.

I understand your reasoning, zadfrack*, which is why I added the "unless..." The periods go inside even by your rules. She's quoting herself; she ended the sentence with "Yolanda." Therefore the period goes with her quote, which goes inside the quotation marks.

It may be different across the pond; I don't know. It may even be regional, although I doubt it. I'm just a non-reformed English major, is all.

*Note I am not attributing the beginning quotation to you, but simply responding to your analysis as well. And yes, singular nouns ending in "s" are supposed to get an apostrophe and additional "s" to denote possession. I don't know why. Them's just the rules.


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:01 PM
horizontal rule
38

It is different across the pond.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:03 PM
horizontal rule
39

She's quoting herself; she ended the sentence with "Yolanda."

No, she's mentioning the word. Use-mention distinction. You may do that differently with your style, but there is reason to do it the way Becks did.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:05 PM
horizontal rule
40

Who cares? I hate all manuals of style. I follow the British and American systems in aleatoric alternation.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:06 PM
horizontal rule
41

The rule is wrong. Morally wrong. There is a right and wrong in the world, a sense of harmony and justness that transcends any rulebook.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:08 PM
horizontal rule
42

Alpha bravo charlie delta echo foxtrot golf hotel india juliet kilo lima mike november oscar papa quebec romeo sierra tango uniform victor whiskey xray yankee zulu, by the way. On the miniscule chance that anyone gives two figs.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:08 PM
horizontal rule
43

My understanding of the issue is that the commas and periods were supposed to go inside quotes for some technical printing-press reason, not a grammatical reason. But now even the fonts make it look weird for them to be outside.

Not with Unfogged's honorable straight-quotes, though. "Innovate on", I say.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:08 PM
horizontal rule
44

Blume is correct in 39.


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:09 PM
horizontal rule
45

31: Oh, I connected "Robert" and "Thomas" with "Baker" and "Charlie," which I assumed were part of their own partly-separate system.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:10 PM
horizontal rule
46

A for Abel

Could be. That's problem with those homophones. C should have been Cain.

There was a recent Deputy Under Secretary of Defense named Charles Abell. A nickname for him was Baker.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:10 PM
horizontal rule
47

I thought it was A for Abel.

Yankee ingenuity, son. A is for Able.

Apologies if KRK is not a he.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:11 PM
horizontal rule
48

42
when i spell my name people always mix B with D over the phone, even when i say B like in ball or bear, i suppose they hear it like doll or dear may be
i should say bravo then, another alphabet to learn


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:11 PM
horizontal rule
49

aleatoric

Emerson is William F. Buckley.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:12 PM
horizontal rule
50

There are times when it's a particularly bad rule, though. I've run into them writing variable glossaries for databases.

The possible values for SymptomSeverity are "None," "Mild," "Moderate," "Strong," and "Severe."

The possible values for SymptomSeverity are "None", "Mild", "Moderate", "Strong", and "Severe".

Which is easier to read?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:12 PM
horizontal rule
51

Blume: I've never seen the use-mention distinction apply to whether the punctuation goes inside or out. Whether the word is italicized or not, yes. Or whether to use single vs. double quotation marks, yes. But not on whether to put the attendant punctuation inside the quotation marks, whether double or single. Neither does my Chicago Manual make any distinction there, so I'm not ready to accept that as a rule for how to punctuate this post. I will stand corrected if it does apply here and if I can find the cite for it.

Ogged: Is w-lfs-n the only one who's allowed to correct other's grammar on unfogged? If so, I apologize profusely and hereby ban myself.


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:13 PM
horizontal rule
52

I occasionally want to put the punctuation outside the quotation marks for the use/reference distinction, but it looks painfully wrong.

Also, I endorse 31.1.

46.2 is funny. I love clever, at-a-remove nicknames


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:14 PM
horizontal rule
53

Is w-lfs-n the only one who's allowed to correct other's grammar on unfogged?

Good lord, no. Our pedantry is open source.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:15 PM
horizontal rule
54

Good lord. S/b "others' grammar." Heh. I ban myself anyway.


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:17 PM
horizontal rule
55

And yes, singular nouns ending in "s" are supposed to get an apostrophe and additional "s" to denote possession.

Isn't Jesus an exception to this rule? And isn't there a funny, punny explanation?

I used to work for an architect named Gl/ance. Rather than spelling, I would always say, "like a quick look." When he started sending out a quarterly newsletter, that's what we called it - a quick look.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:18 PM
horizontal rule
56

re: Abel. Yep, I'm wrong. (And not a he, but no apology necesary.)

Must have been those signal drills at church camp as a child. Abel, Baal, Caleb, Deuteronomy, Elijah, Frankincense, Gomorrah, Hagar....


Posted by: KRK | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:20 PM
horizontal rule
57

51: I don't necessarily disagree with the way you're arguing for it, I just think there's a case to be made here for the punctuation on the outside, too. That is, that it's not clearly wrong.

And don't apologize! Grammar pedantry for all.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:22 PM
horizontal rule
58

And yes, singular nouns ending in "s" are supposed to get an apostrophe and additional "s" to denote possession.

Another stupid rule.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:23 PM
horizontal rule
59

Radio alphabet is awesome, One of the the few things I still remember from getting my ham license. And I do tend to preemptively use words instead of letters for things like airline reservation codes. Airline folks, in my experience, do know the ITU alphabet; random other phone people always kind of annoy me when they start picking words to spell things out, and they aren't even good choices.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:23 PM
horizontal rule
60

Before Frege, how did anyone ever punctuate properly?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:24 PM
horizontal rule
61

i should say bravo then, another alphabet to learn

It's useful and practical to know.

Among my reperetoire of near useless skills is the ability to spell phonetically in German (Anton Berthe Caesar Dora Emil Friedrich Gustav Heinrich Ida Julius Konrad Ludwig Martha Nordpol Otto Paula Quelle Richard Siegfried Theodor Ulrich Viktor Wilhelm Xanthippe Ypsilon Zeppilin Ärger Ökonom Übermut) and French (Anatole Berthe Célestin Désiré Eugène François Gaston Henri Irma Joseph Kléber Louis Marcel Nicholas Oscar Pierre Québec Richard Suzanne Thérèse Ursule Victor William Xavier Yvonne Zoé)


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:24 PM
horizontal rule
62

And I didn't mean it to sound as snotty as I guess it sounded. Just a peeve of mine, is all.

Apo, your second set looks more readable to me. But maybe that's because of those years of beatings at the hands of English professors. I can still quote the first 30 lines of the Canterbury Tales in Middle English too. God help me if I ever forget those lines and end up in heaven with Dr. Redacted. She's probably got access to some big-ass rulers in heaven. And extra shaming, what with all the really virtuous people up there.


Posted by: wrenae | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:24 PM
horizontal rule
63

people always kind of annoy me when they start picking words to spell things out, and they aren't even good choices.

S-I-N. That's scent iota net. What do you mean, "What?"!


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:26 PM
horizontal rule
64

I can still quote the first 30 lines of the Canterbury Tales in Middle English too.

Fuck me, I think I can still do that, too. And yet I can't remember where I just left my cell phone.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:27 PM
horizontal rule
65

I had a friend once who lived in apartment 10KE. He'd spell it for delivery guys "That's K as in Knife, and E as in Euphemism."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:30 PM
horizontal rule
66

"Ms. Harris's recipe" sounds okay to me.

"Becks's post" does not.

I think it's because "Harris" ends in an unstressed syllable.

Emerson is being sarcastic in 60, but it's the truth.


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:38 PM
horizontal rule
67

It's not Thomas, it's Taliban.


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:44 PM
horizontal rule
68

Put me down for British/logical punctuation style, wrenae.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:46 PM
horizontal rule
69

66: "Becks's post" sounds okay to me, but I realize that's not worth much. Without the second "s" you get a homophone for Beck's, which loses the disctinction between Mr. Beck and Mr. Becks. And I assume that distinction is more important than soundly vaguely like a bee.

Where it really gets fun is the plural possessive. Wouldn't it be "the Beckses' post"?


Posted by: KRK | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 2:50 PM
horizontal rule
70

It's not Thomas, it's Taliban.

I dare somebody to say, "b (or l) as in Osama Bin Laden." ("Obama" doesn't work any more for that.)


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 3:11 PM
horizontal rule
71

This coud be fun:

b as in burka
I as in Iraq
A as in Afghanistan
b as in body count
A as in anti-Christ
W as in war on terror
t as in terrorism
m as in Muslim

The next flight I'm taking is HOZCJE.

"That's H as in Holy War, O as in osso bucco, Z as in zeiteist, C as in Christ Our Lord, Praise Be His Name, J as in jihad, and E as in evolution is a lie. Yes, you have provided me with excellent customer service today."


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 3:23 PM
horizontal rule
72

That's apostropher. A as in apostropher, p as in postropher, o as in ostropher, s as is stropher, t as in tropher, r as in ropher, o as in opher, p as in pher, h as is her, e as in er, r as in ribonucleic acid.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 3:33 PM
horizontal rule
73

58: That rule helps to communicate meaning, it can otherwise by difficult to tell the difference between a singular and plural possessive.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 3:35 PM
horizontal rule
74

73: Like what?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 3:39 PM
horizontal rule
75

I prefer the American punctuation rules because they make things look more elegant, but that's a losing battle on the internet, what with all the computer programmers who like things all logical.

The apostrophe, though, is simple. Use 's after s where you would pronounce another s (most of the time) and not where you wouldn't. Traditionally the rule is to use it all the time for singulars, but there are a few cases where you don't actually pronounce another s, so I see no reason to be overly pedantic about those.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 3:42 PM
horizontal rule
76

Period after the quotation marks is house style, motherfuckers. Siddown and shut up.

(And no, I don't do it, but I know that it's house style and why. Read the archives, n00bies.)


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 3:49 PM
horizontal rule
77

Instead of going on a lovely vacation, we are stuck in Cleveland with a surprise blizzard. Wah.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 3:50 PM
horizontal rule
78

I had a friend once who lived in apartment 10KE. He'd spell it for delivery guys "That's K as in Knife, and E as in Euphemism."

Living on Euclid Ave has really been fun.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 3:53 PM
horizontal rule
79

I had a phone conversation with someone just yesterday who wanted to ask me if someone could still be reached at an address on Euclid Ave, and she clearly looked at the address written out and froze, totally at a loss for pronunciation. "Is he still at ten nine-hundred... uh, E-U-C-L-I-D, uh, avenue?" Poor thing. I wonder if it was a genuine not-knowing or just brain freeze.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 3:56 PM
horizontal rule
80

A couple of the attorneys here have last names that people who call in have an enormous amount of difficulty with. They're both pretty straightforward German names, and not even particularly long, but the pronunciations aren't intuitively obvious to people who are unfamiliar with German spelling conventions, i.e., most people around here.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 4:07 PM
horizontal rule
81

77: Oh, that sucks rtfs.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 4:24 PM
horizontal rule
82

People often get the first letter of my name wrong because the first syllable with the wrong letter is a common word. This happened last when I voted (FOR OBAMA, YOU MONSTERS), and the person with the rolls went immediately to the wrong place as I was still spelling it out.


Posted by: Mo MacArbie | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 4:30 PM
horizontal rule
83

81: Yes, it is sad. Very sad! But at least we have plenty of bourbon.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 4:32 PM
horizontal rule
84

Glad to hear you're seeing the glass as half-full. No full glasses of bourbon, though, lest you disturb the adage world order.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 4:45 PM
horizontal rule
85

Use 's after s where you would pronounce another s (most of the time) and not where you wouldn't.

Okay, but when do you pronounce another "s"?

Does it have to do with whether the final syllable is stressed or unstressed? "Becks' post" vs. "Ms. Harris's recipe".


Posted by: zadfrack | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 4:46 PM
horizontal rule
86

Okay, but when do you pronounce another "s"?

When a singular noun is pluralized.

Does it have to do with whether the final syllable is stressed or unstressed?

No. I would say (leaving writing out of it) "Becks's post"; wouldn't you? "Becks' post" seems like it would be routinely misinterpreted as "Beck's post."


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 5:26 PM
horizontal rule
87

I had a phone conversation with someone just yesterday who wanted to ask me if someone could still be reached at an address on Euclid Ave, and she clearly looked at the address written out and froze, totally at a loss for pronunciation. "Is he still at ten nine-hundred... uh, E-U-C-L-I-D, uh, avenue?"

"No, he lives at ten nine-hundred 13th Street."


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 5:35 PM
horizontal rule
88

"The secret ingredient is Dirt. That's D like in dirt, I like in dirt, R like in dirt and T like in Orange Pekoe."

--Churchill La Femme


Posted by: Dr Paisley | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 7:18 PM
horizontal rule
89

Anal, Buttsex, Clitoris, Dong, Epididmus, Frenum, G-Spot, Hooters, I, Juggs, K, Labia, Masturbate, Nipple, Orgasm, Penis, Quim, R, Santorum, Tits, Urethrea, Vulva, XXX, Yoni, Zipless (or Zoophilia)

Suggestions?


Posted by: Dr Paisley | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 7:26 PM
horizontal rule
90

I have a layover Sunday in the Warsaw airport. i do not think there will be bourbon.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 7:53 PM
horizontal rule
91

I - Insertion
K - Kama Sutra
R - Rectum
W - Wang


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 8:06 PM
horizontal rule
92

You're really missing an opportunity not going with "Fisting".


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 8:20 PM
horizontal rule
93

I have a layover Sunday in the Warsaw airport. i do not think there will be bourbon.

Probably lots of vodka, though.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 8:59 PM
horizontal rule
94

92 to 93.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 9:00 PM
horizontal rule
95

There's always duty free!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 9:06 PM
horizontal rule
96

Übermut

Superdog?


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 03- 7-08 9:40 PM
horizontal rule
97

A for 'orses, B for lamb, C for yerself, D for ential, E for Adam, F for vescent, G for police, H for 'imself, I for Novello, J for oranges, K for ancis, L for leather M for sis, N for it, O for Christ's sake, I can't go on...

Popular usage in mid c20 Britain.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:31 AM
horizontal rule
98

The whole point of a spelling alphabet is to improve clarity while maintaining as much brevity as possible. Words must be short and easily understood and easily and unambiguously associated with the letters they represent. By these criteria, the Germans, French, and especially the Italians seem to value style over function, see below. They also are name oriented based on the idea that proper names are less likely to be confused with un-spelled-out words in a message, though the German use of "Nordpol" and "Zeppelin" violate this rule. In general, using as few parts of speech as possible aids clarity, as is also reflected in a tendency to use proper nouns/names.

To see how confusing I could make it, and in line with the vulgar spelling alphabet suggestions above, I threw in my own take on vulgar spelling alphabet, (at bottom), with as many parts of speech as I could.

What happened was:
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.

Wikipedia's Spelling Alphabets lets us know this would be variously reported by:

NATO & Aviation personnel:
Tango Hotel Echo Quebec Uniform India Charlie Kilo Bravo Romeo Oscar Whisky November Foxtrot Oscar X-Ray Juliet Uniform Mike Papa Sierra Oscar Victor Echo Romeo Tango Hotel Echo Lima Alpha Zulu Yankee Delta Oscar Golf

British Forces in 1952:
Tare How Easy Queen Uncle Item Charlie King Baker Roger Oboe William Nan Fox Oboe X-Ray Jig Uncle Mike Peter Sugar Oboe Victor Easy Roger Tare How Easy Love Abel Zebra Yoke Dog Oboe George

Royal Air Force Chaps from 1942-43:
Tommy Harry Edward Queen Uncle In Charlie King Beer Robert Orange William Nuts Freddy Orange X-Ray Jug Uncle Mother Peter Suga Orange Vic Edward Robert Tommy Harry Edward Love Apple Zebra Yoke Dog Orange George

A New York Cop:
Tom Harry Edward Queen Union Ida Charlie King Boy Robert Ocean William Nora Frank Ocean X-Ray John Union Mary Peter Sam Ocean Victor Edward Robert Tom Harry Edward Lincoln Adam Zebra Young David Ocean George

A Frenchman:
Thérèse Henri Eugène Quintal Ursule Irma Célestin Kléber Berthe Raoul Oscar William Nicolas François Oscar Xavier Joseph Ursule Marcel Pierre Suzanne Oscar Victor Eugène Raoul Thérèse Henri Eugène Louis Anatole Zoé Yvonne Désiré Oscar Gaston

A German:
Theodor Heinrich Emil Quelle Ulrich Ida Caesar Kaufmann Berta Richard Otto Wilhelm Nordpol Friedrich Otto Xanthippe Julius Ulrich Martha Paula Samuel Otto Viktor Emil Richard Theodor Heinrich Emil Ludwig Anton Zeppelin Ypsilon Dora Otto Gustav

An Italian:
Torino Hotel Empoli Quarto Udine Imola Como Kursaal Bologna Roma Otranto Washington Napoli Firenze Otranto Ics I lunga Udine Milano Padova Savona Otranto Venezia Empoli Roma Torino Hotel Empoli Livorno Ancona Zara York Domodossola Otranto Genova

A pervert:
the hot eating queer usually is cum kissing
bondage reluctant orgy was nasty fuck orgy
xrated jimmy usually manipulates pussy sex
orgy vagina eating reluctant
the hot eating lick as zen
yummy dom orgy guy/girl


Posted by: MrBitchPhd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:13 PM
horizontal rule
99

My husband spent all fucking morning doing that.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:35 PM
horizontal rule
100

Writing the post, I meant. Not having a yummy dom orgy.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:36 PM
horizontal rule
101

77. The Plain Dealer reports this important news:

A Starbucks shop on the 1400 block of Euclid in Cleveland closed at 4 p.m., seven hours earlier than usual.

The airport is closed; the orchestra has canceled. But when *$ closes, that's a storm.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:52 PM
horizontal rule
102

Your husband is a talented man.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 3:53 PM
horizontal rule
103

101: Yeah, man. That's crazy. SEVEN HOURS EARLY? Damn.

102: I think he actually wrote software to do the translations for him.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 4:01 PM
horizontal rule
104

though the German use of "Nordpol" and "Zeppelin" violate this rule.

Interesting story behind that. According to Wikipedia...

The German alphabet was changed several times during the 20th century, in some cases for political reasons: In 1934, supposedly "Jewish" names were replaced. Thus, David, Jakob, Nathan, Samuel and Zacharias became Dora, Jot, Nordpol, Siegfried and Zeppelin.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 4:14 PM
horizontal rule
105

Goddamn Nazis.


Posted by: Zippy | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 4:24 PM
horizontal rule
106

"Jot"? A common name?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:03 PM
horizontal rule
107

Just as common as "Tittle". Or is that Tuttle?

I wonder about Ypsilon.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:08 PM
horizontal rule
108

Tittle reminds me…

When I read Swallows & Amazons I was taken aback (nice metaphor there) by a character—a girl—named Tittie. A bit pervie there Ransome.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 7:11 PM
horizontal rule
109

A is for Axe that cutteth the pine,
B for the jolly Boys never behind,
C for the Cutting we early begin,
and D for the Danger we oft-times are in.

...And it's hi-doody, ho-doody, hi-doody down,
Give a shantyboy whiskey and his head will go round.

For real, I never even knew there was a cultural norm to be either upheld or violated. I just make shit up as I go along.

K is the Keen edge on our axes we keep,
And L for the Lice that keep us from sleep.


Posted by: Mary Catherine | Link to this comment | 03- 8-08 9:58 PM
horizontal rule
110

Even earlier British one: Ack Beer Charlie Don Edward Freddy George Harry Ink Johnnie King London Monkey Nuts Orange Pip Queen Robert Sugar Toc Uncle Vic William X-ray Yorker Zebra.

Hence "ack-ack" - AA or anti-aircraft fire. Toc H, the Talbot House charity movement. And the army still talks about Don Ten - D10 cable.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 03-10-08 11:07 AM
horizontal rule
111

110. Not to mention times, e.g. 10 o'clock ack-emma or pip-emma (Emma, not Edward, was standard usage in WWII).


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 03-11-08 7:33 AM
horizontal rule
112

"Jot"? A common name?

The German word for the letter "J", actually. It's distinguishable from other letters all by itself. Ditto for "Ypsilon" and the letter "Y". IME people today say "Julius" for J.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03-11-08 7:45 AM
horizontal rule