It's the new no-pacing model. Suck it up.
I think she'd be a terrible candidate; not on substance (I think she's terrible on substance as well, but that's not what I'm talking about), but that she looks hostile and nervous when attacked.
She is a horrible (but dedicated!) liar.
At least she'll serve to associate McCain more closely with Bush.
I think what Condi needs is a really long vacation on an island with plenty of cabana boys. In twenty or so years, perhaps we'll let her leave the island.
Right. If they put Rice on the ticket, I'd expect (well, hope. I don't expect anything anymore.) that our candidates would grill her constantly about how come she fucked up the prewar intelligence so badly: clueless or dishonest, which is it?
with plenty of cabana boys
This reminds me of the lesbian rumors. Man, a black lesbian. McCain would carry Berkeley.
Man, a black lesbian. McCain would carry Berkeley.
But she's a black lesbian from Stanford! West Coasters don't know how to hate.
She could be a lesbian, but I'd guess she's just really, really tightly wound. A steady stream of cabana boys and mai tais would really do her wonders.
7: God, I hope they would, they have to go right at the Repubs incompetence in military and foreign affairs, attack the perceived strength, no matter who is the Veep candidate.
I'm hoping they go ahead and put Romney on for VP as I have heard mentioned, but I suspect McCain would not care for that.
Are you on your lunch break, LB? How's the new job so far?
If they put Rice on the ticket, I'd expect ... that our candidates would grill her constantly
Is grilled Rice any good?
Is grilled Rice any good?
Tah dig is delicious.
Hm. I'm thinking a McCain-Rice ticket could improve Obama's chances in the South.
Since one must (well, maybe not must, but still) choose between the "she's a lesbian" rumors and the "she dreams that Bush is her husband" rumors (those come with a bonus report of her accidentally referring to him as her husband by accident), I prefer the latter.
McCain's biggest weakness will be the Bush legacy, and his biggest asset will be getting to run against either a black man or a woman. Why would he pick a running mate that hurts him in both areas?
I think she'd be a terrible candidate
Agreed. Were it not so, the GOP establishment would be loudly touting her already. The superficial appeal is too obvious, so there must be something underneath the surface that makes her radioactive. (I wouldn't be surprised if it's the sexuality thing, but who the hell knows.)
Also, I don't think think she will bring material numbers of African American voters over to the Republican ticket. Why take the token VP choice when you can vote for a Black President (assuming BHO is the nominee)? And to the extent that BHO takes criticism for not being "black enough", Rice is even worse. The association with Bush alone is enough to get her credentials revoked.
Finally, she has never held elective office or campaigned before, never had to deal week in and week out with skeptical (much less hostile) press coverage, her tenure as National Security Advisor has never been fully vetted, etc.
Accidentally by accident! See how accidental it was?
She could be a lesbian, but I'd guess she's just really, really tightly wound.
I think I'm gonna start randomly saying this about people.
I suspect that most of the country views her as a smart, well-dressed woman without associating her with any particular views.
I am not convinced that the Iraq war sticks to her. Look at George I and Iran contra. Maybe I am too jaded...
I am waiting for Powell to get pulled in.
12: Nah, I've got a week off between jobs. I've got a batch of foccacia rising, and am contemplating going out for a run.
In theory I won't be commenting from work anymore; we'll see if I manage to stick to it.
Hm. If McCain is smart, he *might* pick her as VP if Clinton gets the nomination, in the hopes of siphoning off some pissed-off Obama voters, i.e., working-class blacks who might (rightly) feel that their own pocketbooks aren't going to be significantly impacted one way or the other by whether there's a D or an R in the white house. Plus there's the abortion/gay marriage issues that might give a lot of conservative blacks a rationale for voting R if they're mad at the Ds.
I don't see picking Condi in the hopes of getting pissed-off Clinton supporters if Obama gets the nomination, though.
Am I a racist asshole for saying this?
22: I actually think you're wrong, and that most people view her as incompetent for two reasons: one, Iraq, and two, the fact that she has *always* seemed to be following Bush/Cheney on that rather than the other way round, and she's the Sec of State. She has never seemed to be "in charge" of that office.
The VP pick will be someone from Ohio or somesuch place.
Most intelligent people maybe, Bitch. But that isnt most people.
(I hope that I am wrong.)
We're used to considering possible veeps based on how well they balance the ticket and other electoral calculations, but I don't think that's how it will be decided this year. McCain will be 72 on inauguration day. I suspect we're going to see very heavy internal politicking among powerful Republicans who want the chance to be president if/when he dies in office (a la Democratic Party 1944).
In that environment, Rice doesn't stand a chance.
Who's this generation's Dan Quayle? That's who they'll pick.
Not especially concerned. She's really, really easy to attack on policy, & is not particularly personally appealing. Obama's already trying to argue that McCain is 4 more years of Bush; this would just make it that much easier.
I don't think Rice would be especially good at picking up pissed off Obama supporters, either. Would Alberto Gonzales as VP be good at picking up Hispanics? Okay, Rice didn't resign in disgrace, but it's not like black voters get equally excited about all black candidates.
Who's this generation's Dan Quayle?
Unfortunately, I think it's Dubya.
Jeb!
31: Equally excited, no. But if you're already pissed at the Ds? Maybe.
Then again, like I said, I could be being a racist asshole.
By appointing first Colin Powell and then Rice to the most senior job in the Cabinet... Bush changed the way millions of white Americans think about black public officials.
Now everyone thinks they're all incompetent, subservient liars?
I was really excited to hear that Rice was a talented classical pianist. It will give her something to do in jail. Those white colar prisons have music rooms, right?
In theory I won't be commenting from work anymore
Could I get a feed that just includes comments from 5 PM - 9 AM EDT?
Actually, I'll just check in around 5:30 PM to see all of my comments for the day rephrased more concisely and reargued more effectively. I can't wait!
It'll be Pawlenty or Sanford, longtime allies, probably Pawlenty. Crist presumaby is too gay and too disliked by conservatives. Pawlety also seems like the right choice, blue state governor, midwestern governor, mcain's weak point vs Obama, right balance between phony moderation and wingnut bonafides (who else has that?), right flavor of conservatism for this year, and to complement mccain, youngish, curious what locals think of him.
I gather he's only fairly politically talanted/appealing, is that true? but there's no plausible better alternatives.
Sanford would be more of a shore up the base choice, and reinforce mccain's anti-pork appeal among wingnuts. But only moderately appealing
The Georgia governor is outside possibility.
I could almost see him being vain/arrogant/devil may care enough to pick gramm.
24: I'm not sure it's racist; it's not clear to me just how strong the A-A taboo is against voting for Rs. To me, for a low-information black voter, seeing Condi on the ticket after HRC stole the nomination from Barack would be awfully tempting. But I could just as well see that no token VP would be enough to get that vote.
That said, I think 28 is right. Hmm. Except that people are pretty sure that McCain can't win - who wants to have been the VP who lost a 40 state landslide to BHO?
35 is right. She's got bigger problems on the horizon than figuring out her next job. And nobody likes her: the right sees her as an affirmative-action hire (unlike Powell) and former egghead academic; the center probably has no idea who she is; and the left sees her as a war criminal. Not to mention the shoe-shopping/fine-dining/show-going itinerary during Katrina.
Seems downright inevitable to me, frankly.
You're kidding, right? If this turns out to be true then I hope you get a kick out of that clip of her reading the PDB title because you're going to see it nonstop in every state that's at all in play.
I continue to maintain that he will pick a woman but that it will be Hutchison or Whitman.
Pawlenty makes no sense. He's not from the south, and Minnesota isn't going to go R.
Maybe it *will* be Condi: McCain's hiring Rove and Mehlman.
OT: Holy shit.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/nyregion/10cnd-spitzer.html?hp
Pawlenty has a bridge-falling-down scandal that could be exploited. A big important bridge. His relevant appointees were nowhere to be found in the days after the bridge-falling-down event. The year before the event he vetoed a highway-and-bridge maintenance bill.
Minnesotans are slow to judge, but that bridge could be puffed up real good for the sake of the more excitable national public. I doubt he'd do McCain any good.
Whitman's a good one. New Jersey really might be in play (unless it's HRC as the nominee); she had the good sense to get out of the Bush administration early (and with some small measure of dignity); she's exceptionally articulate (and clean); she has great appeal for women voters.
"Small" above s/b "a tiny shred."
37 is too sure of itself, but I'd like better quality speculation. He's not gonna pick prochoicers for christ sake.
43: Excellent.
I agree with 17 and 28. She won't get the VP nomination, and if she does, absent some October surprise or something, Democrats should cheer. A black woman VP candidate on the right would assuage David Broder, David Brooks, Joe Klein and no one else, while even non-racist Republicans would take it as tokenism.
True, the bridge *did* make the national media.
Whitman would be a much better choice. Of course, I'm not a Republican and never would be, so I'm sure McCain's going to do something I think is insane.
"As we're finding out in the Democratic primary campaign, it's very difficult to attack a woman or an African-American in ways that don't offend a lot of people, and this would be particularly true with Rice because the main criticisms of her personally are that she's incompetent and a liar; charges that are true but whose very unpleasantness makes them difficult to broach."
This doesn't seem to apply to Clarence Thomas.
20: "Forest Whitaker could be a lesbian, but I'd guess he's just really, really tightly wound."
So no one's putting any money on Lieberman?
45: Speaking of too certain, I think you mean to say that you hope he won't pick someone pro choice. And by the way, his choice will depend in part, one assumes, on who the Democratic nominee is.
So no one's putting any money on Lieberman?
I'm putting roughly the value of a stack of leftover GORE/LIEBERMAN 2000 bumper stickers on that one. If he did pick Lieberman, regardless of Lieberman's rightward canter, McCain would be doing the equivalent of painting FUCK THE BASE down the side of his own bus.
49: Exactly.
48: Oh, that's because it's okay when liberals are racist.
Speaking of too certain, I think you mean to say that you hope he won't pick someone pro choice.
That's the prayer, anyway.
his biggest asset will be getting to run against either a black man or a woman. Why would he pick a running mate that hurts him in both areas?
I don't know about that. Republicans have won close elections. They get a majority of the white female vote. I'm not sure that they can write that vote off.
52: Indeed. The same is true of Whitman, Rice or Hutchinson, all prochoicers. Especially Whitman, a quintessential norhteastern moderate.
42.---Whoa. I can't help think that this is ratfucking from Bruno, who really is a festering boil on the ass of the body politic.
No, I'd love for him to pick a prochoicer.
Depressing his base like that would guarantee his defeat.
52: The base, such as it is, believes that he's already done that. Also, there are at least two bases, no? And probably more like three or four: thecons, no-government types, hard-core racists, and maybe now warmongers. There's overlap, to be sure, but the Republican base is no more monolithic than the Democratic. And I think McCain is probably screwed with the theocons, the no-government types, and maybe the racists. But he's got the warmongers. For sure.
Implied in 59 is the fact that he must win lots of independents and a significant number of Democrats to win the election. Either that or run against Clinton and hope that parts of the base get back on the Straight Talk Express. Just because they hate the Clintons that much. He's got a tough road ahead of him.
58 see 59 and 60. The base is already very likely gone. They may come back, of course. But for the moment, they're not coming to the polls.
What does 48 even mean? Y'know what, forget it.
#43. Sanford has the same problem. He's spent most of his last 6 years in office squabbling with his own party in the lege, rearranging agencies, and downplaying scandals. He isn't that loved by the Republican base, nor is there any reason they need to flatter South Carolina.
#42. Holy shit indeed.
#62. James is pointing out that Clarence Thomas isn't a woman.
I can see McCain choosing the Lady Chablis. Anyone doubt that?
Just read 42. Zing! They're all the same, of course. It's corrupt turtles all the way down. It's just a question of figuring out what the particular vice is in a given person's case.
56, 59: Yeah, but picking someone who was the VP nominee on a ticket that ultimately lost and had a (D) after his name at the time? No way. He'd go with Hutchison as a way to make nice with the Rove machine or he'd go with Whitman and take his chances any day of the week before he'd go with Lieberman.
It should be noted that I at one time passionately believed non-nerds would never have a use for the internet and that high-speed internet access for the home was a losing business proposition.
I have met the Lady Chablis, swampcracker. And Condi Rice is no Lady Chablis.
McCain's electoral coalition will be different from previous nominees, but it will still mostly consist of antiabortion conservatives. And picking a prochoicer will depress far more votes than simply being mccain, without swaying close to as many independents.
62, see 54.2. It's all about the "I didn't say anything overt, it's not my fault you misread me" pose.
Well, if Obama ends up driving Miss Daisy around, then maybe McCain will choose Spastic Colin Irritable Powell to run with.
67: There is no way that I see him picking Lieberman. I just want to be clear about that. But I can imagine him picking Whitman, though I'd be surprised.
70: Nope, I'm not reading his comment again. I'd prefer to be ignorant than in pain. At least this early in the day.
Hey, does this mean that New York is going to get a Governor David Patterson? Because I'd be pretty cool with that.
75: Wow, talk about your good reasons to pray for the President's health.
73: Ignorant is better. Can you send some of that ability-to-ignore over my way, please? I seem to have misplaced mine somewhere.
79: All of a sudden we agree on everything. Who stole Bob and replaced him with this impostor?
Oh, Bob's lovely. It's just that you have to have Shearer around to recognize what a *real* troll looks like.
oh Condoleeza Rice is also not cool here
i did not follow her close enough to hate or admire greatly, just it always seemed cool to me that a black woman could rise to her level of a success in her carrier
Oprah is very didactic in my opinion, just saying
what i find surprising is that bitchphd does not find any kind words for her, i thought she is that fearless feminist to be above the party affiliations or race to defend her fellow woman
I think McCain has to ignore the base when picking his VP. Either they're going to hold their nose and vote for him because he's Anybody-But-Democrat, or they're not. A VP choice won't change that, and if he goes with a wingnut-friendly VP, he runs the risk of hurting his image with moderates. Given that his war position is "in it to win it," my guess is he runs towards the center on every other issue, and his VP choice will reflect that.
Rick Hertzberg makes the case for Condi as VP in the New Yorker.
I hold Hertzberg in high esteem, but I think he is asserting facts not in evidence in this passage:
Her nomination to a constitutional executive office would cost McCain the votes of his party's hardened racists and incorrigible misogynists. They are surely fewer in number, though, than the people who would like to participate in breaking the glass ceiling of race or gender but, given the choice, would rather do so in a more timid way, and/or without abandoning their party. [emphasis added]
Isn't Whitman pretty exposed on the whole "lied for Bush as his EPA chief to the detriment of those who live and work downtown"? And wasn't it on her campaign (not sure) that Ed Rollins worked his suppress-the-black-vote magic? Folks in NJ and NY don't like her anymore.
85: I, too, love Hertzberg (though his Huckabee piece was just weird). But I'm totally with you. I think he's wrong there.
That's the piece linked in the post, you yahoos. Banned, the lot of you. Jesus.
To believe that the Republican Party hungers to help someone break through the glass ceiling of gender and race is to have discovered vast new horizons of doobage. Like, that guy is so high.
I finally read the Hertzberg piece, and people! c'mon! we're all giving away the trap!
She's perfect, she has 8 priceless years of experience at keeping a straight face while enabling stupid wars.
48 54 62 64 70 73 78
Since some of you found my comment obscure I will elaborate. Ogged claims that McCain selecting Rice as VP candidate would put the Democrats in a difficult position because it is hard to attack a black or a woman without being offensive. I am objecting that this hasn't stopped the Democrats from attacking Clarence Thomas as stupid and a Scalia puppet (which is less true than Rice being stupid and a Bush puppet) and the only people who seem to be offended are partisan Republicans.
Thomas is not up for reelection. If he were, the things you say might be relevant.
92: I don't think attacking Rice is that difficult. She has a lousy record. As long as you make it very, very clear this is what you are doing, you shoud be ok
Via Firedoglake, a new report from an Australian paper on the run up to 9/11 that in a sane world would mark the absolute end to Condi's public career. Probably not a lot of absolutely new stuff, but it brings it together in a particularly damning way, for instance I was not aware of this:
more than 40 presidential briefings presented to Bush from January 2001 through to September 10, 2001, included references to bin Laden.
The weird thing is that we have simultaneously anti-terrorism hysteria and utter indifference to the details of counter-terrorism. It really is a mass pathology driven by elite journalistic fraud.
All that stuff coming about Zelikow doctoring the 9/11 report was out there already in Summer 2004, too. I researched it and wrote about it. The Democrats didn't care. The media didn't care.
Zelikow was right in the middle of the Bush network and he essentially controlled the report. The blue-ribbon people on the commission, Republican and Democratic both, let him get away with it.
You would've thought that with Zelikow looking as he does, like an half-starved rabid ferret, that more people would've mistrusted his role.
Oprah is very didactic in my opinion, just saying
How does that have anything at all to do with Condi Rice??
what i find surprising is that bitchphd does not find any kind words for her, i thought she is that fearless feminist to be above the party affiliations or race to defend her fellow woman
I don't object to Rice because of her party affiliation. Or her race (did you just imply that I object to her because she is black? How offensive). I object to her because she is the Secretary of State for an administration that lied to get us into an unnecessary war, and because she has been 100% supportive of and responsible for perpetuating those lies.
I hope that clears me of any imputed racism or feminist failures, Read.
97: Yes, why Kerry and the Dems did not just jam this stuff right up Bush's ass in 2004, I will never know. My God, imagine if the situation had been reversed. Is it too late to use some of this this year? I think Obama has to rip the guts out of the Republican protector daddy meme.
100: I spent the whole month of April gathering miscellaneous dirt about Bush. It was easy to find. They were scrupulous about ignoring the internet. Peter Daou, their internet guy (now working for Hillary) with the super hot musician wife Vanessa, was handcuffed by Mary Beth Cahill. (For that and other reasons, John Edwards despises her). Several other bloggers (Kos, Hesiod) had equally-bad, but weightier experiences with the Kerry campaign. What a bunch of losers.
Daou is a nephew or something of Erica Jong, who wrote a sort of stupid anti-Obama thing.
just recalled Oprah as another high profile black woman, sure she has nothing to do with Rice
ok, i got your objections and kinda agree, sorry
it's nice to see you people respond in earnest from time to time
coz i never sure when you are serious or joking
This doesn't seem to apply to Clarence Thomas.
Oddly enough, Bill Kristol:
Perhaps the most obvious way McCain could upend the normal dynamics of this year's election would be a bold vice presidential choice. He could pick a hawkish and principled Democrat like Joe Lieberman. He could reach beyond the usual bevy of elected officials by tapping either David Petraeus or Raymond Odierno -- the two generals who together, in an amazing demonstration of leadership and competence, turned the war in Iraq around last year. He could persuade the most impressive conservative in American public life, Clarence Thomas, to join the ticket. There are other unorthodox possibilities.
Not that I'm much impressed by any of the conservatives in public life, but I wouldn't put Thomas anywhere near the top of the list.
Ooh! Let him get Thomas on the ticket and off the court. Pretty please.
Though come to think of it, you just know that all that would happen is that Roberts & co (with Thomas writing the decision, natch) would decide that the constitution didn't specifically *prohibit* someone from being VP *and* a sitting SC justice, so clearly it's perfectly okay.
105: I'm not a lawyer, but I think the Constitution doesn't prohibit it. But America is a conservative place in a social sense, and what you're talking about carries with it a strong appearance of impropriety, and with few or no examples in history of people holding more than one high-level federal office at the same time, certainly no recent, well-thought-of examples of it... forgive the run-on sentence, but with no precedent for that, there is no way that a Republican VP/SC justice in 2008 would be the first.
I notice that I keep on saying "don't worry about it" to a lot of different concerns about 2008. I'm not particularly optimistic in general about the election: party identification is still strong, the media still loves McCain, Iraq is going badly but most people still aren't questioning the ideas that led to it, a candidate who's either black or a woman faces prejudices, etc. The odds are in the Democratic Party's favor, but it's not a sure thing at all.
But on the other hand, McCain is old, either Democratic candidate has their strengths, and all of the specific worries I see people bringing up just don't see that threatening to me. So maybe I should be optimistic about the general. I mean, look at the original post again. Someone is suggesting that McCain might add to his ticket a controversial, incompetent holdover from the current administration, and that is supposed to help him?
