Re: Footnote

1

What in the world is the point of this video?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:10 AM
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From the NYPost article:

"I just don't want to be thought of as a monster," she said. "This has been a very difficult time. It is complicated."

Interesting choice of words.


Posted by: sam k | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:12 AM
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Her arm fat alone probably weighs 105!

There, are you happy now, you sick fuck? We're ruining this woman's life!

I still say she's very pretty. I'm sticking by that.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:12 AM
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Looks like filming scenes from a hip hop video.

Sifu has good taste.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:22 AM
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I feel dirty for having watched that.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:22 AM
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The linked photo looks so much like a male commenter here (with a wig) that I'm inclined to think this is all a put-on.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:22 AM
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Perhaps she's built out of balsa wood and styrofoam.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:22 AM
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Like I said, I'm guessing that '5'5'', 105' was used as a shorthand for 'slender and pretty like how you like' rather than an accurate guide to her weight. (Frame size or no, people.)


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:24 AM
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I still say she's very pretty.

I haven't been paying attention. Is this controversial somehow?

From the article: On her MySpace page she has posted a single song, called "What We Want" -- a amateurish R&B song about love

What a bitchy little swipe.


Posted by: felix | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:25 AM
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She is pretty, and the entire discussion about whether or not she is is so gross. (Not the discussion here, which if one happened I missed. I just mean, as a general topic. Leave the poor damn woman alone, I say.)


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:25 AM
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1. Trolling your own blog is its own reward, ben.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:26 AM
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Cameras add 20 lbs.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:27 AM
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2: Love the headline on that article. The NY Post really puts the "ass" in class.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:28 AM
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Leave the poor damn woman alone, I say.

Yeah, I kind of agree.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:29 AM
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Note to self: don't hire hookers with MySpace pages.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:31 AM
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I really do like that body-picture site, though I suspect by looking up the people my height & weight and then the heights & weights of everyone whose heights and weights I know is probably not approaching it in the correct spirit.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:32 AM
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15: classist!


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:34 AM
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Threadjack: GOD DAMN IT TPM has a picture of Obama making the "I got caught" face on the obligatory "I profoundly disagree with Wright" story.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:34 AM
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17: Yep, I'm a West Coast liberal elitist. Also effete.


Posted by: Hamilton-Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:35 AM
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They're already talking about that in the other thread, Hammy.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:35 AM
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Hamlove, a hooker with a Facebook page is no better. Especially if she starts a group called "Women Hamilton-Lovecraft has paid to have sex with - Let's see if we can get to 10,000!".


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:36 AM
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18: Wright made me love him with that video. God damn America, indeed.

And people, really, leave this woman alone. I read the bitchy NYT piece and even through the writer's condescending "I don't have to have sex for money, neener neener" snark, she came across as an ordinary, decent human being who doesn't deserve to be preyed upon by media jackals.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:38 AM
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I LOST MY PHONE and AM FinALLY! getting around to making a thread---- FORMER JOHNS PLEASE POST!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:38 AM
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"I don't have to have sex for money" is snark now? Talk about defining deviancy down.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:41 AM
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Die verlorene Ehre von Kristen Blum

(Or, The Lost Honor of Kristen Blum, by Heinrich Boell, but trust me it's funnier in German.)


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:41 AM
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20: Swimming Drill? Odd.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:42 AM
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24: If you're doing an article about a prostitute? Yes.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:43 AM
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I have a small-ish frame and am only 5'2 3/4, and I weigh 112 or 113. My arms are miniscule, because I'm a muscleless wimp. I don't see how she can weigh only 105.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:43 AM
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"I don't have to have sex for money" is snark now?

It is if you think it makes you any better than the person who has sex for money. Especially if your job is "paid hack for the New York Times."


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:45 AM
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Die verlorene Ehre von Kristen Blum heisst Treue.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:45 AM
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BTW, I agree (I think) with Tim in 5. Something very creepy about the vid (although to an extent that's often true watching footage that lacks its soundtrack). I avoided the NYT article on her. I'll admit to having felt some curiosity-satisfaction seeing her picture, but I would have been perfectly happy never having known a thing about her. Not Important.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:45 AM
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AM New York, or whatever the freebie subway paper is called, had as their Spitzer resignation headline, "OUT WITH A BANG!"


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:45 AM
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Or if you're simply doing a prostitute, for that matter.


Posted by: sam k | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:46 AM
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My name is Vickey Alvarez I am 5'5 and weigh 97 pounds

If you'd have asked me to guess her height, I'd have said she was 5'11". I think partly it's because she's so skinny, but also because she seems to have a small head.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:46 AM
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33 to 27


Posted by: sam k | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:46 AM
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Oh yeah, FWIW, based on the linked site, I agree that the weight can't be right. 105 is light for a short woman, much less a (slightly) taller-than-average one.

Defining 105 up, or something.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:48 AM
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105 is light for a short woman

Maybe it's in Celcius.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:51 AM
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"I don't have to have sex for money"

I thought that's what made it a luxury?


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:51 AM
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It is if you think it makes you any better than the person who has sex for money. Especially if your job is "paid hack for the New York Times."

Ironic, much?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:52 AM
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"Celsius"


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:53 AM
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What in the world is the point of this video?

iMac product placement, as far as I could tell.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:53 AM
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According to Ogged's system her boobs alone are 20 lbs., right? On the other hand, she cleansed the clay ropes out of her colon.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:54 AM
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"Celsius"

Rats. I knew I should have written centigrade.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:55 AM
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44

The "105 pounds" thing is obviously supposed to be shorthand for "she's skinny and pretty," going with the assumption that men don't really know how much real women weigh anyway, and some exaggeration in the numbers is needed to get the point across.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:55 AM
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According to Ogged's system

?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:56 AM
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46

Maybe it's in Celcius.

I think you mean Kelvins!


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:57 AM
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47

Defining 105 up, or something.

By 20 lbs. or so, I'd say. Not that it matters, but it's strange that the 105 lbs. thing is being repeated everywhere (I assume) without any eyebrows being raised (I gather), given that it's pretty absurd. Is it culturally similar to not saying a word when, say, a clearly 30s woman claims she's 24 or something? You know, the 'we do not ask a woman how old she is' thing.

I might as well answer my own question and agree with myself that it's a politeness thing.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:58 AM
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My sister is 100-105 lbs., 5 feet tall, and is noticeably slender. She looked at the video and agrees, no way is Ms. Spitzersbabe 105 pounds.

Maybe in that culture all weight reports include and implied "or more", sort of like restaurants whose selling point is strong drinks and generous portions.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:59 AM
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Ogged isn't the boob-estimating guy? It was someone here. All commentators are really Ogged, right?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:00 AM
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50

Why do people still wear big sunglasses?


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:02 AM
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Because you don't have $5000 to spend on them, Rob, and other people do.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:04 AM
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and some exaggeration in the numbers is needed to get the point across.

Yeah, I'm always one of the ones harping on the massive variability possible in frame size, so that someone healthy at 105, 5'5" is possible, but generally this sort of exaggeration is what makes women insane. It's so weird being someone who's skinny and gawky, but has never seen an attractive woman described publicly as being within twenty pounds of her weight -- it makes you nutty on the subject.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:04 AM
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I think it's a 'we have no idea what a person who weighs X will actually look like' thing more than a politeness thing. Hell, the other day people would have defended to the death that such a weight wasn't unusually noticeably skinny at all. Even given the norms of Internet arguing, it shows that our mental image of what normal people look like is a little messed up.

Or what 44 said.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:05 AM
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54

Maybe she only has one leg?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:05 AM
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55

Also, I agree that AA Dupre is very pretty. I also thought Monica was pretty, too. In general, I think we can be proud of the taste in women of the male democratic leadership.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:06 AM
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To be 105-5'6" she'd have to be visibly wiry, whether healthy or not. A marathon runner type.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:07 AM
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55: Totally. We should be saying this much more loudly, and comparing "our women" to, say, John McCain's praying mantis wife.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:10 AM
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A marathon runner type.

Doesn't "marathon runner type" imply lots of muscle, which would just make you weigh more?


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:13 AM
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On a slightly more serious note, does anyone know of a blog with good, basic coverage of this financial stuff. JP Morgan is bailing out Bear Stearns, but the Fed is guaranteeing the loan. WHy doesn't the Fed just bail out Bear Stearns directly?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:14 AM
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Isn't the deal with Cindy McCain that she had a stroke recently? I'm not sure whether she had that terrifying glassy stare before the stroke (or before the publicisation of her prescription drug problem), but I'm a little reluctant to make too many sarcastic comments about her before I understand the story there.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:17 AM
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57: Irony alert.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:19 AM
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Long distance runners have no upper body strength or body fat at all. Some of them can't do one pushup. Their legs are strong but not terribly thick.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:20 AM
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54: I was sad because I had one leg, but, hey! lower BMI!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:23 AM
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Apparently according to Atrios Morgan has a fed status BS doesn't. Atrios also helpfully points out that Morgan is taking on no risk, perhaps because of their federal status allows them to dump losses on taxpayers.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:24 AM
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59: because only commercial banks have access to the discount window. JP Morgan is one, but Bear Stearns is an investment-only bank - so JP Morgan is acting as a channel and (possibly) lining itself up for a takeover of BS.

try delong.typepad.com, economistsview.typepad.com and blog.risk.net.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:26 AM
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64: not quite: the Fed's lending money to JP that JP will pass straight on to BS. It's not that JP can get the taxpayers to cover its losses, but that it won't make any losses anyway, because it's in the middle of a back-to-back transaction.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:27 AM
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Hell, the other day people would have defended to the death that such a weight wasn't unusually noticeably skinny at all.

I don't think any of us were arguing that. We were just saying that we knew people at that height/weight who were still within the realm of normal looking, even if very slender and small.

I'd pretty much agree with people in this thread, however, that the girl in question does not look anything like 105 pounds. Even her chestiness alone would pretty well exclude that possibility. 47 seems right to me, in that she's probably closer to 120-130 depending on the various vagaries that cause similar looking people to have surprisingly divergent weights.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:31 AM
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66: it's in the middle of a back-to-back transaction

So is this what it's like in the post-Spitzer world? All of our personal sex for money schemes are going to be discussed in public?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:32 AM
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68: the Fed's all about the injections of liquidity, IYKWIM.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:33 AM
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Doesn't "marathon runner type" imply lots of muscle, which would just make you weigh more?

No. Have you ever seen a marathon runner?


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 11:38 AM
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I also agree that she's very pretty, and that people should leave her alone, but I think that's about as likely as the probability that people will focus on actual substantive issues.

As I comment to 55, I sadly have to say that I disagree WRT Monica. Obviously, in neither Eliot's nor Bill's case was it worth risking their executive career for their daliances, but I personally think that FWIW, Eliot managed to display marginally more aesthetic taste in his choice of methods of self-destruction.


Posted by: Eric T | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 12:20 PM
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"Craving a Styling Top," don't get whatever hat Monica was wearing that day.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 12:31 PM
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Leave the poor woman alone, unless you're a paying customer.

--You don't want notoreity? Don't fuck New York governors for money.

Feel free to print this comment and tape it to your refrigerator if that will help guide you in future.


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 1:18 PM
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You don't want notoreity? Don't fuck New York governors for money.

I'm guessing she didn't, in fact, want notoriety when she signed up with the anonymous escort service that sent her to have sex with the anonymous client, whose name was only revealed thanks to an FBI wiretap.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 1:20 PM
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I feel the need to add that my girlfriend, who is not particularly thin is about 5'8'' and 130lbs. So I think this girl could easily be less than 115lb, but maybe 105lb is pushing it a bit.


Posted by: mpowell | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 1:20 PM
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I don't see that anyone has linked the photographic height-weight chart, so here's 5'5" and 115 pounds. That's pretty thin.

And here's 5'5", 97 pounds.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 1:21 PM
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She's what they call "thick" in the hood. Sort of fleshy and voluptuous in an attractive way. Beautiful, but in just the opposite manner as implied by 105 pound weight.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 1:22 PM
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76: What's missing in the image with the 115 lb girl is her legs. That's where you'll see a lot of the difference in weight.

But seriously, of course they're going to lie by 5-10 lbs. Isn't that just expected? But 120-130lbs. Hell no. This girl is almost certainly under 115. And damn hot.


Posted by: mpowell | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 1:30 PM
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I'd say she's 130, give or take. Which looks damn hot on a 5'5" frame. But when men think that the ideal weight is 120, regardless of how tall the woman is, of course she'd lie.


Posted by: Magpie | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 2:21 PM
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I'd guess 120, but everyone knows better than to trust me on this sort of thing.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 2:33 PM
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76: You mean, other than in the post?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 2:55 PM
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61: Not at all, I was serious. In a kind of jokey way, but still.
60: Great, way to make me feel guilty.
73: Gosh, we're just beseiged with lovely comments today, aren't we?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 3:03 PM
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80: It's hard to say. I'd say between 120 and 140, but it depends on how much muscle mass the girl has, if one takes the photo project seriously.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 3:03 PM
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I'd say between 120 and 140, but it depends on how much muscle mass the girl has

Ditto.

almost certainly under 115

Not unless she's also actually shorter than 5'5" (entirely possible).


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 3:07 PM
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I am also rapidly coming to the conclusion that I must have bones made of lead, or that no one who has submitted photos in my weight range has my body type. I would think that I just don't know how I look, except that the same seems to hold true if I look at the weight/height for my sisters, and I know how they look.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 3:10 PM
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Oh, good heavens. I'm sorry I took insufficient pity on the poor girl -- who is so eager to be away from public attention that she's giving interviews and promoting her music on her MySpace page.

They didn't use to call 'em "shameless hussies" for nothing. At least the shameless part. I'm not sure I actually know what a hussy is. Maybe it's misspelled?


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 3:11 PM
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The only permitted form of sexism is calling women "whores" in a derogatory way, as Anderson demonstrates. Anyway, it's interesting that Eliot married a proper Southern girl but liaised with an ethnic/white girl from NJ.


Posted by: bjk | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 3:15 PM
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85: You could add yourself to the project, then .. isn't that sort of the point?


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 3:17 PM
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86: Yes, the fact that I have a blog and a facebook account and have given interviews and have taken money for sex means that I want everyone and their dog assessing my looks. Shamless hussy that I am.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 3:17 PM
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88: I could, but the guy only seems to want pictures from weight/height combos he doesn't have, and mine is a popular weight, apparently.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 3:19 PM
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the guy only seems to want pictures from weight/height combos he doesn't have

Does he say that? Many of the plot points have multiple photos. I've always wished there were more at each point.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 3:23 PM
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Yes! I would love to add your photo (if the slot is not taken)

Right at the top.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 3:26 PM
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I am also rapidly coming to the conclusion that I must have bones made of lead

Some people are kind of like that. My high school girlfriend's roommate was apparently one of those people. She was probably 5'8" to 5'10", and built like a rectangle, so no one would expect her to be featherlight, but it turned out she actually weighed around 200 lb. Just astonishing considering her size, and that even most guys about her size would only be 180 as a reasonable estimate. Some people really are bizarrely dense for their seeming volume, and others are bizarrely light for the same.


Posted by: Po-Mo Polymath | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 3:27 PM
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The bastard.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 3:28 PM
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But I'd bet that he'd put it up if you said "here I am and I sure do look different from the other people at that point."


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 3:28 PM
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92: That seems kind of silly. Particularly with the variation of posing and amount of clothing worn in a lot of these photos, it would be good to see a few variants.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 3:28 PM
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It is silly. Especially since I get the sense that a lot of the pictures are of people dieting down to a certain range, or in the process of dieting. Which looks different from someone whose natural max is that range, or who weighs that without any training at all. Or big frame vs average frame vs. male vs. female vs. small frame.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 3:40 PM
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I'm not sure I actually know what a hussy is. Maybe it's misspelled?

Indeed, the proper spelling is "housewife."


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 3:40 PM
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98: Not in the 21st century it isn't.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 3:46 PM
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Fair enough.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 3:47 PM
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means that I want everyone and their dog assessing my looks

Oh, that. I don't care about her looks.

Tho I would imagine that some expectation of inevitability would accrue there, given the "becoming famous b/c I had sex w/ the governor of NY for money" part, and the existence of ironically depraved people like Ogged, and depravedly ironic people like me.

--Riiiight, huswife! Got it! I *did* use to be an English major, once.


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 5:10 PM
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Just because something is inevitable doesn't mean it's excusable.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 5:18 PM
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Okay, one more bite at the apple:

Prostitutes are paid to have sex. Most people find a person's appearance to be an important element of sexual attractiveness, esp. outside a relationship, and thus esp. in the case of paying for sex. Thus, a prostitute's appearance is a professional asset, just as with a model.

Hence, when people hear that a particular prostitute's services cost $1000 or $5500 an hour, they are, I think, not necessarily sexists for being curious as to her appearance, just as we might be curious as to the appearance of the America's Top Model winner.

Of course, this runs the risk of being confused with the general appearance-bias that pervades men's and women's evaluation of women, whether or not the evaluated women's appearance is relevant to anything in particular.

That's as bloody-mindedly clear as I can make it without having a drink first.


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 7:01 PM
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I also think she may have gained a few lbs in this video in comparison to the photo in the original New York Times story. Her arms look different. But for a slim women, the big difference is in the legs. And based on the way her jeans sit on her, I doubt she has much mass in those legs. That's the difference b/w the 115 and 95 lbs 5' 5'' girls on that website.

The thing is that you can carry more weight in your legs and be just as attractive if it's allocated well. I think a lot of women run into problems on these issues b/c they are looking at the wrong number: weight, when body fat content is probably a better indicator of whether extra body fat is detracting from your appearances. But at the end of the day, our well fed and sedentary life styles do not tend to lead to ideal, physically attractive figures. And this is true of both men and women.


Posted by: mpowell | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:34 PM
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But at the end of the day, our well fed and sedentary life styles do not tend to lead to ideal, physically attractive figures.

Depends. One looks better well-fed than malnourished.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:39 PM
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runs the risk of being confused with the general appearance-bias that pervades men's and women's evaluation of women

Being as it is, in fact, *exactly that*.

Also, being curious is one thing. Indulging your curiosity, especially if such indulgence requires one to talk about whether or not said woman is "hot enough" to justify the money, "really not that hot," etc. etc., is quite another. Polite people know that not all their natural curiosity is something they should be allowed to indulge.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-14-08 10:40 PM
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On a slightly more serious note, does anyone know of a blog with good, basic coverage of this financial stuff.?

That would be Calculated Risk, BG.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03-15-08 3:40 PM
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Goddamit I'd managed to totally ignore this whole conversation (because, hey, who cares) but this:

Polite people know that not all their natural curiosity is something they should be allowed to indulge.

rubs me absolutely the wrong way. People should damn well be curious about what they're curious about. Wanting to know something, and learning about that thing, and learning about why you want to learn about that thing, is exactly the path to understanding. I mean, really.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-15-08 3:43 PM
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