This Shenzer fellow has a bit of the serial killer about him, doesn't he?

Probably the aftereffects of staying the whole concert.

Here's an interesting piece about Cohen's 'Hallelujah,' with a little bit about Cale's role in its transformation and spread.

Did the host actually say "whim of iron"? I think he did.

It would be more interesting if it didn't contain factual errors (it's not Cale but Rufus Wainwright on the Shrek soundtrack).

Also, Fall Out Boy must really be awful.

Also, Fall Out Boy must really be awful.

Hoo boy, yeah.

I think Cale's version plays during the movie itself, while Wainwright's version is on the soundtrack album.

Yeah, the article in 3 would be even more interesting if it traced the Wainwright part of it. Wainwright is covering Buckley covering Cale covering Cohen, and it's not just that people think Buckley wrote the song that's fucked up. They think Wainwright did.

7: I don't know what's on the soundtrack, but in the film, it's Wainwright.

4: Yes he did, I replayed that part just to see if I had heard it correctly. The host was Garry Moore, he was pretty good as though things go. Just a bit of whillsy on his part I suspect.

Wainwright on Cohen is passable when it's Hallelujah, inspired when it's Everybody Knows

Back when that Damien Rice song from Closer was on the radio all the time, I thought it was Jeff Buckley covering some song from the 60's. And I thought that when watching the movie last week, too. Quite a surprise when the credits revealed the truth.

7: I don't know what's on the soundtrack, but in the film, it's Wainwright.

No, in the film it's Cale. On the soundtrack its Wainwright. I have a 4 year old and you have no idea how often I have watched this movie.

11: I was in the audience!

13: To be honest, I think it has just occurred to me that I have never seen Shrek, but that I seem to have assumed that I had. How weird.

I hate that version of "Everybody Knows". It's like Dennis Leary's lounge singer cover of "Immigrant's Song". I blame AWB.

It was a Leonard Cohen tribute concert in the park next to my apartment with $3 admission. Am I made of steel? I am not.

Hate it all you want, Someguy. More for me.

I also want his shirt.

It's not fair, I know, but I can't hear anything of Rufus Wainwright without thinking of his dad's song Rufus is a Tit Man. Then I think of Unrequited to the Nth Degree, from the same album, which I think he (the dad) played in an episode of M*A*S*H.

And then Hardy Boys at the Y. You kids know these songs?

As I started to watch, I thought, "Is Cale a typo for Cage above?" And whaddayaknow, it's not, but Cage was another of the pianists.

Everyone is aware of the existence of "Rufus is a Tit Man", because it is now taken to be ironic.

Boy, I just don't like Leonard Cohen very much.

Also, Loudon's "One Man Guy," which Rufus covers to somewhat different effect.

23: what a pointlessly grumpy addition to the thread. You, sir, should be ashamed of yourself.

24: I thought that was a Rufus original!

Oh, this is all too confusing for me.

Also, is my promotional CD of Rufus's very first single, "Foolish Love", worth tens of thousands of dollars by now?

I thought Papa Wainwright's most famous song was "Dead Skunk in the Middle of the Road."

25: But it was so ... authentic. Someone on the Internet saying they don't like a particular musician, how often do you hear that?

22 -- It's just like post-boomers to think the song is about the kid.

Can someone change the name of the person who posted 25?

28: don't let him off the hook that easy.

28: exactly the thing! I felt like it was very important that you all knew I find Leonard Cohen sort of tiresome.

But really now, when I think of Loudon Wainwright III, I think of the dorky dad on Undeclared.

I remember when Rufus Wainwright's first CD came out (and I have to admit, it's the only one I genuinely enjoy), he made some statement that he wanted to write songs you could listen to while cleaning your house. I think his affinity for Cohen makes sense in that way. Cohen writes songs you can clean your house to.

My ex made the mistake of buying a collection of Cohen's music that covers his whole career, and the later stuff is almost totally unlistenably bad, just horribly cheesy and backup-singerish, with annoyingly "lush" instrumentation, and this seems to be the story of RW's output, too. Early stuff is kind of cold and detached, with eerily detailed lyrics and fussy instrumental interludes. Later stuff passes through campy dramatic pop and towards self-indulgent wankerliness.

27 -- Yeah, but I never owned that album. And it was on Top 40 radio and had the living crap played out of it.

I can't hear anything of Rufus Wainwright's without wanting him to unlock his jaw. Seriously. Dude sings like it's wired shut.

It's just like post-boomers to think the song is about the kid.

But it is about the kid, and his enthusiasm for breastfeeding.

he wanted to write songs you could listen to while cleaning your house

AWB, this is very interesting, because I heard Rufus say in another interview that his bottom-hitting bender that forced him to seek help was precipitated by his doing a bunch of meth in order to clean his house.

I saw him do Judy Garland's Concert at Carnegie Hall (at the Hollywood Bowl). It was a great show, and his voice, which I find idiosyncratic in a frequently not-for-me way, was a perfectly assertive and sincere notes-on-camp. He did a little moment of claiming it for Gay History, which I thought was sweet and smart. The audience consensed roaringly.

AWB, are you saying you don't like "The Future"? "Everybody Knows"? "First We Take Manhattan"?

35: Yeah. I was little and had older hippie brothers when it came out. They would play it for me and we would dance around, and thus I remember it fondly.

I liked when Leonard Cohen was in a monastery and not recording any music.

Cohen writes songs you can clean your house to.

Are you serious? I can't tell. I actually like Leonard Cohen, but they are all kind of dark-night-of-the-soul songs.

I clean my house to Springsteen and Daniela Cotton. Maybe, maybe you play Cohen when you're wiping down the kitchen counters at 1 a.m. after a dinner party, but even then I'd probably go for some early Tom Waits instead.

I never really liked Leonard Cohen either, although his singing on McCabe & Mrs. Miller is tolerable. But maybe that's just because of Julie Christie.

All this talk of prostitution, maybe I ought to dust that one off . . .

> they are all kind of dark-night-of-the-soul songs.

I don't know. I think a lot of Cohen's stuff is more mordant than morbid.

The arrangements on I'm Your Man are terrible. I can find them interestingly terrible, and if I strain I can find them sublimely terrible, but they really just schlock up the songs in a way that beg for the relief of a good cover.

They work on "First We Take Manhattan", providing that Leonard Cohen taking over Manhattan with two soul sisters and a Casio is no less ridiculous than Leonard Cohen taking over Manhattan on his own.

45, it's still not suited for the bright sunlight.

When I want to clean the house I want it to be fast music, anyway. None of these people mentioned are remotely appropriate. How about Rancid, or Elastica?

39: My Cohen-loving, RW-loving ex was at that concert at Carnegie Hall. It takes a certain kind of straight dude to attend a concert like that by himself, but he did.

40: "Everybody Knows" is tolerable. I despise "First We Take Manhattan." I know I've heard "The Future," but I can't think of it clearly enough to state an opinion. But seriously, none of those songs are in remotely the same league as his early work. I'm one of those pathetic "Famous Blue Raincoat"-era Cohen fans.

40: My thoughts as well. Don't know when you date "later" from, but I'll just have to disagree from 100 floors below you, in the Tower of Song.

My wife agrees with ixnay on the backup singers. But she is wrong.

When I got into The Clash, my mom decided it was really good for vacuuming. But this led to me doing more of the vacuuming.

46: I suppose you can find a way to justify all those goddamn accordions, too.

Yeah, the Clash. Now that's good house-cleaning music. Whereas Bauhaus is not.

My last enthusiastic cleaning binge was set to the first Soviettes album. Repeated like 3 times.

Yeah, the Soviettes!!!! I gave their second album one of the best reviews I ever gave anything.

Channel X Channel X Channel Channel X Channel X Channel X Channel Channel X Channel X Channel X Channel Channel X Channel X Channel X Channel Channel X

I admit that the only Leonard Cohen album I own is the Greatest Hits. So, perhaps not representative.

Mordant, morbid, morose -- they're all varieties of the DNOTS, aren't they? More to the point, ya foreigner, don't you know that "mordant" is a UK-ism? Not common at all over here.

Accordions are great and need no further justification.

Mi>Just horribly cheesy and backup-singerish, with annoyingly "lush" instrumentation....

"Marianne" on his first record was that way too.

37 -- Oh come on.

For my lungs and my liver
I do definitely fear.
I like to suck on cigarettes
And drink the wine and beer.
The doctor says I'm oral.
And I believe it's true.
Ah son you look so satisfied
I envy you.

I first heard "Everybody Knows" in Exotica, where Mia Kirshner strips to it. So I've always liked it.

I recently had my first-ever public accordion gig, bandleading on Hava Nagila for a friend's wedding. I'd played it on recordings before, but never live before more than a dining room.

Ben, what's the most underrated instrument?

Expanding on my very serious argument from 46.2, I have decided that though Manhattan remains an open question, L.C. + 2 soul sisters + Casio could have Berlin on its knees within the first four measures.

I first heard "Everybody Knows" in Pump Up The Volume and thought it was thought-provoking and world-weary. Of course, I was 15, and also thought Pump Up The Volume was thrillingly subversive. Thank goodness I didn't figure out who sang the version of that song in the movie (on the soundtrack it was Concrete Blonde, and awful) or else I might be one of you poor, deluded Kool-Aid drinking mordant motherfuckers today.

42: I liked when Leonard Cohen was in a monastery

Yes, I found that interesting.

Relevant stanza from "One Of Us Cannot Be Wrong" (applicable to this thread with suitable numerical adjustment).

And just when I was sure that his teachings were pure
he drowned himself in the pool.
His body is gone but back here on the lawn
his spirit continues to drool.

Ben, what's the most underrated instrument?

The most underrated ever, or the most underrated played by squeezing?

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I'm probably gonna be in the Boston area for a few days a week from today. I've never been before; anybody got suggestions for stuff to do on a Sunday or restaurants I really shouldn't miss? (Hopefully I'll be staying in Cambridge, though I may get stuck in Waltham, but I'll have a car.) Also, any of the Boston peeps up for a meetup?
|>

I hope we can all agree on what is the most underrated instrument to be the namesake of a type of sharp wire.

Ben, what's the most underrated instrument?

I'll field this one. The kazoo, people. It's the kazoo.

I was introduced to Leonard Cohen in college by a girl who was trying to fuck me (unsuccessfully, in a sad way). A month later, I was introduced to Rufus Wainwright by a dude who was trying to fuck me (successfully, in a sad way). So I've never actually been sure that I genuinely, myself, *like* either LC or RW, but it seems to be that they've been playing during a bunch of really important moments in my personal life, and are sort of inextricable from my memories of them.

64: the most underrated played by squeezing would be the bagpipe, one assumes, and there I can agree with you.

65: Deep Ellum in Allston, that's my advice. I will unfortunately be out of town unless you're still around on Wednesday.

What's the word on Concrete Blonde? They must have been popular with Reed kids around ten years ago, because I heard them a bunch in a Reed bar. It reminded me of the Pretenders and Blondie a little bit, and at that time it made me feel weird for Hynde and Harry to be "influences". As if they were dead, so people my age were really, really dead. And now I suppose Napolitano is an influence too. (And Governor, of course.)

Ah yes, by squeezing. Bagpipe?

Cohen's experimentation with orchestration was... unfortunate. I think he just got bored with being a folkie. I suspect that the songs themselves are good, but that he has no real talent for arrangement (which is why you hear everybody's version of "Hallelujah" but his). The Democracy album, which is post-orchestration, is terrific, though.

Tuba. There's some great tuba stuff out there, but no one believes it.

For some people, the Fender Rhodes and Hammond B-3 are wrongly disdained.

Probably vibraphone too.

I was introduced to Leonard Cohen in college by a girl who was trying to fuck me (unsuccessfully, in a sad way).

"Excuse me, ma'am, I'd like to fuck you unsuccessfully, in a sad way. I think this music would be perfect for that."

To allay pedantry, one must specify Highland pipes.

My son's band was in a bar in Brooklyn once playing Leonard Cohen on the jukebox once, and some of the local Brooklyn guys (not hipsters) accused them of trying to induce suicide. More than 2-3 songs of that drone could do it to someone who wasn't inoculated and acclimatized.

As a bookend to the original post, here is (terrible quality video of a TV screen) Loudon Wainwright playing on TV and then introducing Phillip Glass playing Metamorphosis Two.

For some people, the Fender Rhodes and Hammond B-3 are wrongly disdained.

How can anyone hate on the B-3? I don't think I've ever heard a song that featured it that I didn't love. Same for the Farfisa.

76 - Funny. I used to have a regular bar that I would go to, and when I got drunk enough, I would go to the jukebox and request four Leonard Cohen songs and Richard and Linda Thompson's "Wall of Death". It was (I kid you not) a grad student bar, though, so nobody complained.

I'm disappointed that people don't want to talk about Satie. Nevertheless, I agree with the assessment of Cohen's overdone orchestration. It seems to have been a law at a certain point that no one could record an album that didn't include black female backup vocalists -- I assume "Take a Walk on the Wild Side" was a parody of this trend.

Concrete Blonde is okay. I thought "Tomorrow Wendy" was a great song, until I found out that it was a cover, and that the original is slightly better.

Josh, I'm up for a meet-up, though Easter day itself is not so great. Deep Ellum is a pretty cool bar, and it's in my neighborhood. It's bus accessible but a bit more of a walk from the subway. Nothing too far; you just have to have a good sense of direction, or at any rate, one that's not as horrible as mine.

80 - Are you new? We have discussed Satie (and Cage) at great length in the past. Though I think we've discussed Cohen and Wainwright at great length too...

I apologize. I forgot that every commenter needs to have mastered the archives. Back to work!

I posted a clip of Salvador Dali on "What's My Line?" a while back.

I assume "Take a Walk on the Wild Side" was a parody of this trend

I don't.

(Yes, he says "and the colored girls sing". But then they sing. If it was Iggy Pop and David Bowie doing the doo-wops, then I'd be right with you.)

82: Crap, I forgot next Sunday is Easter. (Comes from living in secular-humanist paradise, I guess.) Is more stuff than usual going to be closed? The timing of my trip is up to me, so I can certainly push it back a week if it'll mean I can have more fun while I'm out there.

But he himself also does the tune they're supposed to sing. A parody necessarily means the exclusion of the thing parodied?

Satie is one of my main men, along with Musorgsky and Janacek. All three of them were substantially self taught and frequently accused of incompetence. All three were anti-Wagnerians. Wagner is Satan.

80: Satie had marvellously lunatic musical instructions in his scores, like, "Be clairvoyant!"

I was introduced to Satie by a boy who was trying to fuck me (successfully, in a happy way), by saying some particular bit reminded him of me. Heh. I was easy.

Hm. Your melody line was out of synch with the accompaniment? Your downbeats came in unexpected places? You repeated 840 times?

All of the above.

Concrete Blonde is okay. I thought "Tomorrow Wendy" was a great song, until I found out that it was a cover, and that the original is slightly better.

It's by one of the guys from Wall of Voodoo, but didn't he actually end up in a band with Johnette Whoozit from CB?

The Democracy album, which is post-orchestration, is terrific, though.

"Democracy" is off The Future, which has more or less the same sound as "Everybody Knows"-era I'm Your Man.

What's the word on Concrete Blonde?

Johnette Napolitano sounds uncannily like Ann Wilson of Heart.

I have to admit that I was always entranced (and not just with their singing) by Perla Batalla and Julie Christensen when they sang backup to Cohen (like at the classic Austin City Limits show in '88). So I may be a bit biased on that part, but all in all he has managed to entertain, depress and amuse me in five different decades. Here's to musical mordancy.

||

Why Elliot Spitzer?

|>

Thanks for the link, ben. I really liked the format of that show, I've Got a Secret. It's like reality TV, but with content of cultural import.

Yeah, let's have a meetup. Easter means little or nothing in my life, but probably more things would be open the next weekend. Also, will Sifu be back in town? Always a consideration.

87: Is more stuff than usual going to be closed?

This is making me laugh and laugh. It's about my reaction as well: didn't realize Easter was so soon, though I've noticed the chocolate eggs in the stores, so I figured it was soon.

No, this has nothing to do with music.

87, 99: push it back a week! Yeah! Yeah! Then (not to answer for her) Blume and I can come.

99, 101: Sold! I should be able to nail down my itinerary early next week.

97: The smell of spittle in the morning. It smells like... Greg Palast!

Spitzer was undoubtedly targeted in no small part because he pissed off wall street. But he sure as hell wasn't standing in the way of a Fed bailout of Bear Stearns. By the way, I hope none of you all own stock in Bear or have any friends who work there. Not to agree with he who cannot be named, but it's looking like things are going to get pretty ugly.

I first heard "Everybody Knows" in Exotica, where Mia Kirshner strips to it.

I saw that movie in an undergrad philosophy class! Ancient Wisdom and Modern Love. And I never knew the name of the song, but it's been a running joke between me and a college friend for about ten years now, as in (say "everybody knows the dice are loaded", or "there's something about a schoolgirl' waggle an eyebrow and I collapse into giggles.)

Much like Richard Thompson, Leonard Cohen is one of those artists I feel like I ought to like, but just haven't ever found interesting.

It really does work in McCabe & Mrs. Miller. I only watched the first third or so last night, and then we saw No Country for Old Men. Somehow I don't see people paying much attention to that one 5, 10, or 30 years hence. And I liked TLJ, and even Mr. Creepy.

I vote for Josh to come the weekend after Easter. Anyone for a brunch meetup? Bloody marys! There's a surprisingly cheap place on the waterfront.

If it's to be Easter weekend, I'd be in town for a Friday meetup, but I'm off to springbreakland on Saturday.

107 gets it exactly right..

brunch with bloody marys on the waterfront sounds great to me.

Bloody Maries during Lent. Fie on you.

I haven't had a Bloody Mary in years. Sounds like an excellent idea.

This is the second year in a row I have failed to keep my Lenten vows, of which I have only even made two in my life. What a horrible Catholic I'd be.

112: Ben, you would make a remarkable Jesuit, I am certain.

110: Since when do Catholics quit drinking?

Doesn't Lent end on Easter? Not to worry, Emerson. It'll be a godly meetup.

There exists an electro cover of "First we Take Manhattan" by a certain Maxx Klaxon. Its the treatment that song desperately needs.