Re: I'm Sure It Was Empowering At The Time

1

The linked piece is revolting. The casualness with which this women is entirely elided with commodity/lottery ticket has made me feel queasy, and I'm not especially reactive to this on the whole. I fucking hate Joe Francis and his fucking rock star treatment in prison. Hate.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 8:57 AM
horizontal rule
2

Yeah, I guess I was sort of assuming he was in prison for the infinite future, to make me feel like the world was somehow balancing out.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 8:59 AM
horizontal rule
3

She's one of the most famous prostitutes in the world right now and her best offer's from GGW? There are much classier porn producers in the area.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:01 AM
horizontal rule
4

After reading the article, it turns out Larry Flynt and I were thinking the same thing. Depressing.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:03 AM
horizontal rule
5

I don't know if I'd call Hustler "much classier", even compared to GGW.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:03 AM
horizontal rule
6

Agreed with SV (though I can't be bothered to read the linked article). Joe Francis is possibly the most loathesome person on the planet.

Random thought: I think Paris Hilton gets more press for being loathesome than Francis does. Surely this is proof of sexism.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:07 AM
horizontal rule
7

5: He said even Hustler probably wouldn't be doing it, though, that she could easily hold out for a book. Now books, they're classy.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:08 AM
horizontal rule
8

Surely this is proof of sexism her superior PR staff.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:09 AM
horizontal rule
9

I think Paris Hilton gets more press for being loathesome than Francis does.

It's surely a good thing if the press ignore Francis. He must really hate that.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:12 AM
horizontal rule
10

Does anyone think Francis looks like Zach Braff?


Posted by: Klug | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:26 AM
horizontal rule
11

8, 9: Both true, but still.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:27 AM
horizontal rule
12

It would be really handy if everyone that loathe-worthy looking like Zach Braff.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:28 AM
horizontal rule
13

There is a particular kind of press Francis would love, no doubt. But you don't see the kind of mass-characterization of him as a useless sack of meat in the way you do of Paris, B is right about that. Further, he is clearly more loathesome, and actual scourge on the planet. I hope when he dies there is a whole unfogged thread where people gleefully ring the bells. I resolve to not feel even the slightest bit squeamish about it.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:28 AM
horizontal rule
14

Er, looked.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:28 AM
horizontal rule
15

Does anyone think Francis looks like Zach Braff?

GRRRRRR! You're the reason Arrested Development was canceled! YOU YOU YOU YOU YOOOOOUUUUU!


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:32 AM
horizontal rule
16

15: Zach Braff or Klug? Or Joe Francis? Or me?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:33 AM
horizontal rule
17

Zach Braff played the Joe Francis character on Arrested Development.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:35 AM
horizontal rule
18

Shit! That one was supposed to go on Standpipe's blog.


Posted by: strasmangelo jones | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:35 AM
horizontal rule
19

Helpful, though.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:36 AM
horizontal rule
20

Surely, someone is going to come in and say "Francis isnt that bad. He just lets girls do what they already want to do" so that this thread will explode to 700 comments???

I keep waiting.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:42 AM
horizontal rule
21

20: I think pretty much everybody realizes Francis is a vile, sociopathic blight on the species by this point.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:44 AM
horizontal rule
22

Anyone else find it a little weird that Kristen has an agent?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:47 AM
horizontal rule
23

Sifu, you arent playing very well. Sometimes it is fun to throw up a softball.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:47 AM
horizontal rule
24

Even people who like looking at naked girls know that Joe Francis is Douchebaggus Maximus.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:52 AM
horizontal rule
25

Anyone else find it a little weird that Kristen has an agent?

Not so much. Once her identity was out she would have been harrassed by agents wanting to take their piece of her 24 hours a day. Under these circumstances the conventional wisdom is to sign up with one so you can tell the rest to foad and get some sleep.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:53 AM
horizontal rule
26

Besides, she's trying to be a musician. Of course she has an agent.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:54 AM
horizontal rule
27

re: 22

Everyone knows that if you want to sell your story you get an agent.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 9:55 AM
horizontal rule
28

But you don't see the kind of mass-characterization of him as a useless sack of meat in the way you do of Paris, B is right about that.

Surely this is explained by the fact that he created his own path, whereas Paris is an heiress? We idolize the self-made rich and people who are bold, both without much moral qualms. Think of the idolization of mobsters, pirates, and gangsters, which has always been around. Walk through Blockbuster, and it even appears as if serial killers are honored.

It also seems that Paris-loathing peaked some time ago, and has died down as she has become more entrepreneurial.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 10:17 AM
horizontal rule
29

27: So much for the let the poor girl alone bit.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 10:19 AM
horizontal rule
30

Seriously, I'm pretty sure she plans to play this for what it's worth. Going into hiding wouldn't do her any real good, and her reputation (for chastity anyway) is permanently shot world-wide. She probably even feels, quite reasonably, that it's Spitzer and not her who should be embarassed.

Empathy is a good thing, but maybe she feels less awful about this than most of us would.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 10:31 AM
horizontal rule
31

29: I dunno know. I can see how she could feel like this is her big chance for money -- what's her career path after this? -- and for a weird kind of respectability if people are taking your story "seriously."

Semi-Emerson pnwed.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 10:32 AM
horizontal rule
32

your her


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 10:33 AM
horizontal rule
33

I think Paris Hilton gets more press for being loathesome than Francis does. Surely this is proof of sexism

It's dumb, but it's boilerplate. Let. Go. Of. It.

We idolize the self-made rich and people who are bold, both without much moral qualms

indeed, Paris Hilton and Joe Francis are both of them truly stories that could only ever have happened in America.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 10:35 AM
horizontal rule
34

re: 29

I'm not sure what you mean by that. I'm familiar with the workings of the tabloid news media. The UK is saturated with 'em. The pattern is always the same. Scandal --> get agent --> sell story.

I'm not attacking her, that's just how the 'system' works. There's a whole industry of bottom-feeding publicists, agents, paparazzi, etc. who exist to run that system. You'd need to be pretty saintly not to get sucked into it if you were part of a big public scandal and a lot of money was dangled in front of you.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 10:35 AM
horizontal rule
35

Well, yeah, she wants to be a musician. She'd have to be mad not to milk this, and fair play to her.


Posted by: felix | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 10:36 AM
horizontal rule
36

Are the pop songs OK? How's her singing voice? If OK, then with a little training she could do torch songs and jazz standards a few years out for a comfortable living.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 10:37 AM
horizontal rule
37

I read that she's already made something like $200,000 from downloads of her songs.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 10:39 AM
horizontal rule
38

29: Nah. Her being smart enough to capitalize on her infamy is admirable, but it doesn't mean that discussing whether or not she's hot enough to be "worth" $1000/hour (or whatever) isn't still obnoxious.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 10:53 AM
horizontal rule
39

Joe Francis should be publicly immolated, and then defenstrated, and then some other 4 syllable indignities that I can't think of.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 10:53 AM
horizontal rule
40

Vivisected.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 10:56 AM
horizontal rule
41

"defenestrated" is five syllables.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 10:56 AM
horizontal rule
42

Bitch slapped.

Which is two syllables, so you'd have to do it twice.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 10:57 AM
horizontal rule
43

I can see how she could feel like this is her big chance for money -- what's her career path after this?

with all other options gone, she may have to go into hooking.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 11:05 AM
horizontal rule
44

We haven't quite gotten to the pÄoint where Joe Francis can get a big network tv show and become a real celebrity. Be careful what you wish for, B.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 11:05 AM
horizontal rule
45

More seriously, maybe I'm wrong but I imagine that she'll be making obscene piles of money and live a life of decadent, sinful, lazy luxury until no one cares about what she did anymore, which will be on March 25th, give or take a day.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 11:08 AM
horizontal rule
46

44: GGW might as well be a big network show, and the man is pretty much a celebrity. But okay, you have an excellent point there.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 11:20 AM
horizontal rule
47

As far as I can see, Joe Francis and Paris Hilton are quite similar phenomena (and basically emergent properties). Francis is the more loathsome of the two, but that's a low bar.


Posted by: Pop Ullous | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 11:24 AM
horizontal rule
48

Francis is the more loathsome of the two

Ya think? He tried, as I recall, to sexually assault a reporter. Which is probably the only reason we heard about it. Hilton is a ninny; Francis is a criminal.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 11:35 AM
horizontal rule
49

B, Joe Francis was bitch slapped and then some a while back. There was even a video. I don't think he liked having the dildo in his rear. And while not defending him per se, how improbable is his empire? Young men like seeing naked girls, and some young girls will take off their clothes while drunk. How ever will we put these two together, at maximum distribution? If it weren't him, it would have been someone else.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 11:42 AM
horizontal rule
50

20: Apparently it'll take exactly 49 comments.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 11:48 AM
horizontal rule
51

If it weren't him, it would have been someone else.

This is true, but that's no reason not to abuse him. If it were someone else with the GGW empire, it'd be someone else getting abused.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 11:49 AM
horizontal rule
52

If it were someone else with the GGW empire, it'd be someone else getting abused.

Our lustful, uncontrolled teenagers must be prevented from self-abuse in front of the camera! No more flashing of tits!

(Unless they have tatts and are appearing on the Suicide Girls web site, of course...these women are clearly far more feminist than those distasteful spring break types).


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 12:01 PM
horizontal rule
53

don't think he liked having the dildo in his rear

That's not what he said on the video.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 12:06 PM
horizontal rule
54

oh, I think I misunderstood 51...you weren't talking about the abuse of Francis.

Francis is an asshole on a personal level. The government has had him in its sights for years though. He will not come to a good end. But the unstoppable tide of sex radicalism will roll on, casualties and all.

I predict that in a few decades the drunken 19 year old fling with nude photos or even porn will be just an ordinary rite of passage.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 12:07 PM
horizontal rule
55

You're right PGD. Neo- puritans are blinded by tattoos and attitude, which are clearly empowering, while naked "girl next door" shots are degrading. Or something.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 12:07 PM
horizontal rule
56

I predict that in a few decades the drunken 19 year old fling with nude photos or even porn will be just an ordinary rite of passage.

Reminiscing on what you did nearly twenty years ago is a pretty lame rite.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 12:08 PM
horizontal rule
57

53. what Apo, no link?


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 12:09 PM
horizontal rule
58

If it weren't him, it would have been someone else.

Dude, that's true of most pests, but we still try to exterminate them.

And I don't think the GGW thing was being reviled just for the taking pics of girls flashing themselves, but around the ethics of getting people drunk and pressuring them to sign contracts. I.e., the problem wasn't just the nudity, but that he's a dick.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 12:23 PM
horizontal rule
59

52, 55: Yes, it's the fact that he's a pornographer, rather than the fact that he's a rapist, that's the real problem. See also 58. And try not to be assholes, mkay?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 12:26 PM
horizontal rule
60

Yeah, I mean, he's a rapist who went after underaged girls. That strikes me as evil quite outside of any cultural significance of his business. Sucks he's out of jail.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 12:40 PM
horizontal rule
61

I admit that part of me thinks, damn, wish I'd thought of that. Not the rape part , though. He can have that, and the jail sentence he deserves.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 12:43 PM
horizontal rule
62

The rape part really isn't a trivial detail.


Posted by: Not Prince Hamlet | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 12:45 PM
horizontal rule
63

I don't know whether the video made it out onto the internets or not (and I'm certainly not looking for it at work), but here's the description:

[It is] stark, grainy. The color is garish, almost fluorescent, possibly from too many generations of loosely authorized copying. A shirtless male figure lies face down on a mattress, his head resting on a pillow. His eyes flutter at half-mast. His mouth is puddled in a stuporous grin, and he looks very, very high. The camera pans to reveal his pants dragged down around his knees and a pink vibrator resting on the crest of his buttocks, lazily gyrating with an irritating whine. The mood is hardly erotic. The man on the screen looks like a hostage in one of those videos streaming out of war-ravaged Iraq: disheveled, sleep-deprived, disoriented, and, just maybe, fearing something on the order of an on-camera beheading. "My name is Joe Francis," he says repeatedly in a damaged monotone, slurring his words in a continuous stream. "I'm from Boys Gone Wild, and I like it up the ass."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 12:47 PM
horizontal rule
64

"My name is Joe Francis, and I approved this advertisement".

"My name is Joe, and I'm a creepaholic".


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 12:50 PM
horizontal rule
65

My exhaustive research indicated that his admission of preference had been coerced, to show what a girly man he was. Probably by an irate dad.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 12:56 PM
horizontal rule
66

his admission of preference had been coerced

Well, yeah.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 1:12 PM
horizontal rule
67

The identity of the coercer was eventually revealed with the help of Paris Hilton, Girl Detective.

He tried, as I recall, to sexually assault a reporter.

Baby, give me a kiss

Joe Francis, the founder of the "Girls Gone Wild" empire, is humiliating me. He has my face pressed against the hood of a car, my arms twisted hard behind my back. He's pushing himself against me, shouting: "This is what they did to me in Panama City!"

It's after 3 a.m. and we're in a parking lot on the outskirts of Chicago. Electronic music is buzzing from the nightclub across the street, mixing easily with the laughter of the guys who are watching this, this me-pinned-and-helpless thing.

Francis isn't laughing.

He has turned on me, and I don't know why. He's going on and on about Panama City Beach, the spring break spot in northern Florida where Bay County sheriff's deputies arrested him three years ago on charges of racketeering, drug trafficking and promoting the sexual performance of a child. As he yells, I wonder if this is a flashback, or if he's punishing me for being the only blond in sight who's not wearing a thong. This much is certain: He's got at least 80 pounds on me and I'm thinking he's about to break my left arm. My eyes start to stream tears.

Posted by: Wrongshore | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 1:22 PM
horizontal rule
68

Until one minute ago, I had no idea who Joe Francis was. Perhaps I need to get out more (or go to mardi gras)?


Posted by: Currence | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 1:32 PM
horizontal rule
69

I'm here for Ashley?


Posted by: Mo MacArbie | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 1:38 PM
horizontal rule
70

Isn't the difference between how you wnat jo frnacis and Paris Hilton to be percieved, and how they actually are percieved, is that they're celebrities, not real life friends of ours? Celebrities being assholes isn't a problem for us, we can appreciate them on a purely aesthetic level. Its only people we know that reality forces some kind of moral considerations on.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 03-19-08 5:14 PM
horizontal rule