Re: And It Makes Me Wonder, Wa Wa Wa Wa

1

That's just freakish enough to make me think it's got to be natural.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 12:14 PM
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2

Yeah, we need pictures from when he wasn't breaking world records.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 12:15 PM
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3

And just when they make it, some hater comes along and says "cheater!" It's annoying.

Cry, cry, deny, cry.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 12:15 PM
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4

Zee crest, she is iliac, non?


Posted by: Auto-banned | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 12:17 PM
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5

Open competition. If they get cancer, OK. Not my problem. Atheletes are goons anyway.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 12:28 PM
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6

5 is the first comment I have seen that I cannot tell whether it is by bob mcmanus or not.


Posted by: Auto-banned | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 12:30 PM
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7

Is this a frame grab from YouTube? A cellphone? There's some kind of weird perspective shit going on and I think some color bleed from the blue into his torso that is exaggerating the effect.

Still...


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 12:47 PM
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8

To be fair: I always thought the telltale sign of steroid use was acne on the back, and there doesn't appear to be any of that. Unless someone has a picture of his shrunken testicles, I think the evidence for steroid use is sketchy at best.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 12:50 PM
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9

Bernard also doesn't have the tell-tale disproportionately large head.

Don't know what that second link has to do with anything. Stumbled across it and thought I would share.


Posted by: Grumps | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 1:10 PM
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10

Viewimages has about 30 shots, none that extreme, but some rather interesting musculature.

Here he is in a stereotype-breaking group shot with French 4x100M really in 2007. (Which is also hotter than Ogged's video from last night).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 1:14 PM
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11

We speak english in this country, Stormcrow.


Posted by: Grumps | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 1:19 PM
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12

I don't know. You have to have pretty ridiculous lats to be a good swimmer. His don't really look unnaturally large to me. Unless you have an earlier pre-roids photo.... I'm not buying it.

Even Bonds doesn't look unnaturally big. There are plenty of 230lb muscular guys out there. They're rare, but they are natural. The problem with Barry was the 30lb weight gain in his early 30s. That's unnatural.


Posted by: mpowell | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 1:26 PM
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13

Color bleed is another lesser-known side effect of doping.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 1:28 PM
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14

Maybe he had some lower ribs removed.

Is that cheating?


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 1:29 PM
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15

Autofellatio is not yet an olympic event, so no.


Posted by: Auto-fellated | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 1:31 PM
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16

He seems to be standing at an odd angle in the picture.

Plus, if one is an elite athlete in a specialty sport, one is likely a freak of nature to begin with, steroids or no.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 1:33 PM
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17

15: Autofellatio, no. But synchronized cocksucking? London 2012!


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 1:49 PM
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18

That photo looks edited, with the blue going over his sides to make his waist look unnaturally small.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 1:57 PM
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19

16: here's a better angle
http://www.arhv.lhivic.org/images/web/alainbernard100.jpg


Posted by: CJ | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 1:59 PM
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20

But in the pic in 10 he isn't even the most cut guy in the group.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 2:02 PM
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21

The pic in 10 is from a year ago. The issue is what he's done in the past year. Compare that to the shoulders in 19.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 2:05 PM
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21: It's possible to conceive of chemical help as part of training. Or perhaps, if--if--he's using chemical help, it's a compound that hasn't yet been banned.

Keep hope alive, ogged.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 2:10 PM
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23

He appears to be running away from Hillary Clinton in an orange jump suit. Either it's fallen through a wormhole from the future, or I say it's faked.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 2:15 PM
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Okay, based on 10 and 19, I'm a little suspicious. Those shoulders are attainable- I saw a huge improvement in my shoulders when I really put some effort into them- but one year seems like a pretty short time to get there. On the other hand, after a swim and while flexing, your muscles will look a lot bigger than relaxing pre-competition.

This guy also has a freakish amount of curvature in his upper back. That's not roids related of course, but it does make him look like a hunchback in 19.


Posted by: mpowell | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 2:34 PM
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25

I saw a huge improvement in my shoulders when I really put some effort into them

Juiced commenting! Will ogged let this stand?


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 2:37 PM
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26

Another interesting snap of Bernard Rev08. Not necessarily suspicious, but still anatomically interesting.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 2:42 PM
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27

Wikipedia says he is 6 foot 8, and 210 pounds.

shouldn't a distributed intelligence network settle on a better estimate than that?


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 2:44 PM
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28

25: I don't think the steroids improve my commenting much.


Posted by: mpowell | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 2:46 PM
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29

His feet are totally roided up in that picture in 26.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 2:47 PM
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30

Rawr! Monkey feet!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 2:47 PM
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31

Speciesist.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 2:50 PM
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32

Steroids don't alter bone growth (at least not in someone his age); those crazy wide shoulders the result of being a natural freak not a 'roid freak. Furthermore, he has muscles because he's a professional athlete and he works out. It's his job. Plenty of dudes have got fuckin' huge without steroids -- just take a look at any natural body-building competition.


Posted by: W. Breeze | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 3:15 PM
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33

I don't think it's bone structure that makes him look like a hulking freak. I vote steroids.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 3:17 PM
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34

I seem to be under the impression that steroids were unlikely to help much in elite-level swimming, given that one has to be a genetic freak in order to compete at that level, and that it was more about technique than raw strength.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 3:32 PM
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35

Strength helps. So does endurance.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 3:33 PM
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36

But if you bulk up, you still need to move that bulk.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 3:36 PM
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32, 36: This is what is somewhat intriguing about Bernard; 1) yes, all world-class swimmers are freakish to some degree or another and 2) there are plenty of weightlifters who build up their shoulders and torso to look like Bernard, but 3) none of the weightlifters move those muscles in an actual sport that comes close to Bernard's level in swimming, and 4) the swimmers tend to have extreme flexiblity and be more of the muscular spaghetti type. Some sprinters have been on the bulkier side, but nothing like this. (Here is Matt Biondi, sprint monster of his day, right after a race for instance.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 3:55 PM
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38

If anyone can tell me why this post's title reminds me of the lines in Jeff Buckley's "So Real" where he says he never stepped on cracks to avoid hurting his mother, I'd appreciate that.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 3:58 PM
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39
2) there are plenty of weightlifters who build up their shoulders and torso to look like Bernard, but 3) none of the weightlifters move those muscles in an actual sport that comes close to Bernard's level in swimming, and 4) the swimmers tend to have extreme flexiblity

Nope. Look here. Chinese Olympic Weight-lifting team. Really, that swimmer isn't that freaky. Sure compared to your average guy on the street, but not compared to other athletes.


Posted by: W. Breeze | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:03 PM
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40

I don't see how 39 disproves the quote that it ostensibly counters.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:05 PM
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41

Here's how: It demonstrates 2) buff weightlifters. It counters 3) these dude compete in an actual sport. It counters 4) showing really flexible dudes. If you don't like that example look at gymnasts or track sprinters.


Posted by: W. Breeze | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:12 PM
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42

or track sprinters

Maybe not the way you want to go with this argument.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:14 PM
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43

Olympic weightlifters are actually extremely flexible. It's a myth that they aren't [the whole myth of the 'muscle-bound'].

Olympic gymnasts are also massively muscular -- much bigger than swimmers -- and I don't think anyone would claim they were inflexible or immobile.



Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:15 PM
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44

much bigger than swimmers

Although they are all about 5ft 4.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:16 PM
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45

Don't make me resort to name-calling.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:17 PM
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46

44: as are the gymnasts.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:19 PM
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47

re: 46

That's what I meant [unless there's a double entendre I'm missing].


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:20 PM
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47: no. I just can't read.

That's what she said!

Yeah, nope. Just can't read.

Weightlifters are often pretty short, too.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:25 PM
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a genetic freak
what i noticed, silly of course but
they the top swimmers look like pretty similar in the 10's link
it's as if water polishes their skulls oblique or what


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:27 PM
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50

Olympic gymnasts are also massively muscular -- much bigger than swimmers

Exactly. Which is why swimmers are hotter. (Ogged excepted, of course.) Which is really the entire point of the Olympics, after all.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:33 PM
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51

Aslo except for the part where swimmers have teeny tiny heads.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:38 PM
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52

39: I'm studying on this ...


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:39 PM
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53

I have a tiny head! (But I'm not as fast as Alain Bernard.)


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:39 PM
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54

51: Who wants them for their brains?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:40 PM
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55

I'd say not doping. France has doping under control. Their anti-doping agency is very strict.


Posted by: Willy Voet | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:40 PM
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56

France has doping under control.

Really? I thought the Tour de France was a total drug-fest.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:41 PM
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57

I don't necessarily want them for their brains, but I do object to the pinhead look. ogged, I'm sure that your massive schnoz helps to offset your tiny head.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:44 PM
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58

Now I'm picturing Ogged as a caricature for an allergy medication commercial.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:44 PM
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59

56: Me, too. Maybe it's a joke.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:46 PM
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60

I think he means French national teams.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:48 PM
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61

Doping is under control in France. Like with their industry policy, the government selects a certain "champion" who receives all the drugs (subsidies), while less-favored athletes have to fend for themselves.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:52 PM
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55: Their anti-doping agency is very strict.

All French athletes must use domestic drugs that meet extremely stringent purity requirements.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:53 PM
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63

I do mean French national teams and pro French cycling teams. The AFLD does lots of out-of-competition tests.

The TdF has been full of dopers, but that seems to be finally changing.


Posted by: Willy Voet | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:54 PM
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64

Then again, there is this:

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/01/23/sports/EU-SPT-ATH-Dehiba-Doping.php

But my point is: doping has been a crime in France since about 1993. That hasn't been the case until recently in Italy and Spain.


Posted by: Willy Voet | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 4:59 PM
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There was a great article--which maybe I saw through an ogged link?--that discussed the arms race between doping chemists and the agencies that are trying to prevent doping. I came away with the impression that the fight was pretty one-sided.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 5:01 PM
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Which is why swimmers are hotter.

Nah. Gymnasts.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 6:16 PM
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67

Agreed. Gymnasts.

I take it that swimmers have tiny heads, with or without prominent noses, because it ultimately helps their fluid motion through the water?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 6:24 PM
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I didn't think anyone found gymnasts hot. Is it because you like to carry them around in your pocket?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 6:25 PM
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I have a thing for powerful shoulders and find the moves on the rings apparatus super cool. And I can fit them in my pocket.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 6:29 PM
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"Frankly, I thought, you know, I was gonna kind of be like...the apparatus."


Posted by: Cala Seinfeld | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 6:31 PM
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I didn't think anyone found gymnasts hot.

Weird.

I tend to find gymnasts hot not because of the body type as a mere visual but because I did gymnastics myself for a time, and appreciate what's involved, at least to some extent. The mix of strength, flexibility, flight, and precision is something awesome. Like dancing.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 7:05 PM
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71: I know some midget show-pony jumpers you'll just die for.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 7:09 PM
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73

Thanks, Sifu. The hot dancers thank you.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03-26-08 7:14 PM
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74

Alain Bernard really doesn't look that much different from other swimmers in his class, just a bit more exagerrated. Slender body, big muscled shoulders but normal arms, which you would expect in a sport where much of the power comes from the shoulders. He doesn't look that different from Pieter van den Hoogenband.


Posted by: Martin Wisse | Link to this comment | 03-27-08 1:01 AM
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74: Gets it about right, I think.

Also, gymnasts are not hugely muscular. They are big for their size and can look huge on television as a result, but the total muscle mass is not that remarkable.


Posted by: mpowell | Link to this comment | 03-27-08 8:26 AM
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He doesn't look that different from Pieter van den Hoogenband.

You've got to be kidding. VD Hoogenband is the "skinniest" of the great sprinters. Picture.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-27-08 8:48 AM
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76: One thing I've learned as I've been masturbating to comparing pictures of these guys is that different angles give very different looks. For instance here is a much more "pumped" van den Hoogenband (but compare left and right arms to see effect of camera angle).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-27-08 8:55 AM
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78

Sure, but still nowhere near Bernard. Look at VDH's pretty normal looking shoulders. Another.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-27-08 8:59 AM
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79

Sigh.

Here is says Bernard is 196cm and 88kg. Now recall that muscle weighs more than fat, so if he was this hugely muscled behemoth that some of you seem to believe he is, he would weigh a lot for his height. So let's look at a strength dominant sport where people have similar heights -- rugby (you could also look at (US) football but I'm sure you'd all whine it is corrupted with steroids). Here is the height and weight of some random Fiji rugby team. You will notice that barely anyone there weighs less than Bernard. In fact dudes his height outweigh him by around 30kgs. Don't like that example? Here's a dude who weighs about the same as Bernard. He's an Olympic weight lifter. He is about 5'8". How about another example? Dwyane Wade is about the same height at Bernard. He is a pretty buff dude, and listed at 98kg, 10kg more than Bernard. Conclusion 1: Bernard is not at all muscular by the standards of strength-based sports. Conclusion 2: If you workout your body will change. Pro athletes have access to great facilities and nothing else to do. It is hardly surprising they can get pretty buff.


Posted by: W. Breeze | Link to this comment | 03-27-08 9:50 AM
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80

He's really 6'5" and 195lbs? You're right that that's not really huge at all. Lemme look to see if that's confirmed anywhere.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-27-08 9:54 AM
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81

Wikipedia says 6'8" and 210lbs. Roughly the same proportions, but not exactly helpful. I've found Hoogenband listed from 71kg to 83kg. Screw the evidence, let's just say Bernard is juiced.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-27-08 9:58 AM
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82

Look at VDH's pretty normal looking shoulders

You'd think they'd be much larger for all that pushing back against poisonous moral decay and weakness of political will in contemporary liberalism.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 03-27-08 9:59 AM
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83

Ok, if we're not being analytical I can get behind that. He's definitely on steroids.


Posted by: W. Breeze | Link to this comment | 03-27-08 9:59 AM
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84

79 is excellent. It reminds me that my reaction, one of the rare times I actually saw an NBA player up close and in person, was that they are really weird looking. Odd but useful body type is probably one of the things that ends up being selected for at high levels of athletics.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 03-27-08 10:07 AM
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85

Look at VDH's pretty normal looking shoulders

Oh, come on. VDH is totally juiced.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-27-08 10:20 AM
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86

Crap. Should have read 82 more closely.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 03-27-08 10:20 AM
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87

You guys are still missing the difference between flexing after a race and relaxing before hand. After that kind of vigourous work, you get more blood circulating in the relevant muscles. The difference in appearance is substantial.


Posted by: mpowell | Link to this comment | 03-27-08 12:04 PM
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88

What about that British diver -- Tom Daley? 'Roids or no?


Posted by: McChowder | Link to this comment | 03-28-08 9:14 AM
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89

My daughter swam competitively all through high school. She specialized in the butterfly stroke. She had shoulders like that. No, she didn't take steroids.


Posted by: Paul | Link to this comment | 03-29-08 5:23 PM
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