Re: The Column Labs Should Have Written

1

It got several laughs of recognition out of me.

Heh, indeed.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 1:39 AM
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I have trouble imagining how someone unfamiliar with that Rouge's Gallery would read the article, which is much more important than my actual reactions. In at least a couple of cases, I was surprised by omissions that I thought were more important than that was mentioned. Glenn's Ward Churchill comments are definitional, I'd think. Also, Ace's 2004 Democratic candidates as D&D characters or the time he compared a vagina to Play-Doh and bacon.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 1:44 AM
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I have no idea why I made "rouges gallery" capitalized or possessive. Well, I have one idea, but it involves alcohol causing brain damage.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 1:46 AM
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Goldberg got a higher stupid/evil ratio than Althouse. Ouch.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 1:56 AM
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I read it thinking how awful it would be to have someone take my blog apart and expose me for the dumbass I am.

Well, when I wasn't laughing about what dumbasses Althouse and Ace of Spades are.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 2:03 AM
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the time he compared a vagina to Play-Doh and bacon.

Okay, see, I didn't need to know that.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 2:05 AM
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Okay, see, I didn't need to know that.

But now you'll get my joke in the chocolate/bacon thread.

And Hilzoy's post making fun of Ace is not to be missed.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 2:16 AM
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All right, Hilzoy helped. Now to bed.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 2:35 AM
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as much fun as the former and as tasty as the latter?


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 4:14 AM
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Malkin gets a surprisingly low evil rating.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 4:58 AM
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Not safe for work -- hell. You should have an abbreviation for not safe on trains. Here I am toodling in to Londond on a crowded train, playing with my new 3G broadband, and I follow the link to Hilzoy's explanation. Christ, I think, the man next to me will be looking over my shoulder RIGHT NOW, or possibly the woman (I dare not turn around to do the research). Thanks a bundle, gswift.


Posted by: the mobile pornographer | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 5:05 AM
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Goldberg got a higher stupid/evil ratio than Althouse. Ouch.

The problem is in the choice of a ratio as the metric for stupid and evil. It suffers the same flaw as comparing General Electric with Calabrese Brothers Electrical Contracting in terms of return on sales: the ratio elides the magnitude of the numerator and denominator.

A more information-rich depiction would plot stupidity and evil on a 2X2 matrix. A management consultant would also make the size of each data point porportional to something (say, hits per day), yielding a "bubble chart". Thus, a stupid-to-evil ratio of 50-50 could appear anywhere along a diagonal line exttending from the southwest corner to the northeast corner of the matrix, depending on the magnitude of the two scalar values.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 5:55 AM
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Malkin gets a surprisingly low evil rating.

See 12. The magnitude of the numerator skews the ratio.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 6:04 AM
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Of course you are right, but I also think that Malkin is *more* evil than she is stupid. So the ratio is wrong, in addition to signifying in a misleading way.


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 6:17 AM
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14: upon further reflection, you are right. I was letting her manifest stupidity blind me to her more insidious evil.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 6:24 AM
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What kind of online column on bloggers does not include links to quoted phrases? I for one am appalled.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 6:55 AM
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Does it even contain a link to alicublog? Roy was robbed, man, robbed!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 7:21 AM
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Thanks a bundle, gswift.

OMG It's a Balrog!

Hee hee.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 7:41 AM
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12 gets it almost right -- why are all the "ratios" normalized?

It's as if the Village Voice is implying that each of these people must be some convex combination of Stupid and Evil, which is itself a Stupid (though probably not Evil) idea.


Posted by: arthegall | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 7:43 AM
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Good stuff. They maybe weren't tough enough on Instapundit or McArdle (where were the greedy Food Stamp recipients?), but some of the others were spot on.


Posted by: PerfectlyGoddamnDelightful | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 7:44 AM
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The problem is in the choice of a ratio as the metric for stupid and evil.

Sure, but I'm thinking that if I was a righty blogger "evil" would be easy to chalk up to lefty hatred and shrug off. But "dumber than Althouse", them's fighting words.

Does it even contain a link to alicublog? Roy was robbed, man, robbed!

I can tell I've been reading blogs too much. My initial thought was " but everyone knows who Roy is".


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 7:44 AM
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I'd love to see a Steve Sailer, John Derbyshire, and Michele Malkin group blog. That would be hilarious.


Posted by: bjk | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 7:48 AM
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Pittsburgh Post Gazette endorses Obama. That's news!


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 7:51 AM
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I'd love to see a Steve Sailer, John Derbyshire, and Michele Malkin group blog. That would be hilarious.

That would quickly degenerate into internecine conflict as Sailer realized to his disgust that Malkin is non-white and Derbyshire realized to his disgust that she is over 30.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 7:54 AM
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He'd still beg her to make more cheerleader videos.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 7:56 AM
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Derbyshire realized to his disgust that she is over 30.

Fifteen is the relevant age, unless Derb's giving her an Asian age push.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 7:58 AM
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the time he compared a vagina to Play-Doh and bacon.

also, breasts are like bags of sand


Posted by: felix | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 8:00 AM
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As a corrolary to 21: I can tell I've been reading unfogged too much because I just googled "bags of sand" and was surprised that the first page contained only links to, you know, bags of sand.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 8:03 AM
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26: He's actually written about how much better preserved his Asian (he considers this causal) wife is than her peer group.

Poor Derb's wife -- he's also written that she is a liberal Democrat who supports Obama.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 8:05 AM
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The "bags of sand" was surely a Forty Year Old Virgin joke?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 8:05 AM
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Well, yeah. I just wanted to refresh my memory on the whole setup. But no! Bags and bags of sand to purchase, but none to fondle.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 8:07 AM
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Poor Derb's wife -- he's also written that she is a liberal Democrat who supports Obama.

Back in college, some stoner friends and I used to play a game we invented called "Dostoevsky's girlfriend". Someone would pick a hypothetical job or role, and you would debate whether inhabiting that role would be better or worse than being Dostoevsky's girlfriend (example: thank-you note writer for George H.W. Bush).

"John Derbyshire's wife" makes an interesting (i.e. genuinely debatable) entry to the Dostoevsky's girlfriend game.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 8:13 AM
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The units - I propose that a standard unit of evil would be one milliaddington, being one-thousandth the depravity of David Addington. Stupidity could be, I know, a yosh, or Adam Yoshida divided by 100.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 8:13 AM
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Bags and bags of sand to purchase, but none to fondle.

You just have to know the codewords, Sifu. Look for ads that say something like "filled yellow polypropylene sandbags, 14x26", 1600 uv treated, with happy ending"


Posted by: felix | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 8:14 AM
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The units - I propose that a standard unit of evil would be one milliaddington, being one-thousandth the depravity of David Addington

I see it more as a unitless, unbounded logarhythmic scale, like the Richter scale or the JECDS.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 8:18 AM
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I'm deliberately looking for a way to anchor it against the Overton drift.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 8:19 AM
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Edroso has a Lileks obsession. Lileks isn't A-list for anyone but him.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 8:52 AM
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Is Labs up for tenure this year or something? Where's he been?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 8:53 AM
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It was a mistake to make the stupidity / evil ratings reciprocal. Some people are all stupid and all evil.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 8:53 AM
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No need to google-proof logarithmic, Knecht. Transcendental functions are humble, and never do Google searches for themselves.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 8:54 AM
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37: No, but he used to be bigger. Power law, early adopter, network effects, whatever the suitable jargon is.

When Tom Tomorrow started blogging*, post-9/11, Lileks was on his links page**

* Actually not in blog format

** Pre-blogrolling


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 9:20 AM
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Pittsburgh Post Gazette endorses Obama. That's news!

One of the Letters to the Editor the other day started out, "Without deviating from its long pattern of radical leftist ideology, the Post-Gazette remains true to form...." The Post-Gazette is reliably liberal, I suppose, in a civic-boosterish, pro-business kind of way. It's really comical how many cranks write in imagining that it's basically a daily dispatch from Moscow, ca. 1961.

In other political news, Murtha just called McCain too old to be Pres. Awesome. "I'm a cranky old Vietnam Vet. I know cranky old Vietnam Vets. And you, sir, are way too fucking cranky and old a Vietnam Vet to be President."


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 9:29 AM
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Ooh, in other local news, Al Gore is speaking at alma mater's commencement (we got Jack Klugman). That seems worth going to.

Should my banner read, "Run Al Run" or "Thanks for the Internet"?*

* I know it's a slur; but at CMU, it's funny.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 9:32 AM
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This is awesome how I now have my own blog here.

Note to self: pick up flour at store.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 9:33 AM
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Thanks, JRoth. I'll go get it now.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 9:33 AM
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Unfogged is a Pittsburgh-and-shopping echo chamber!


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 9:42 AM
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You're doing a service, JRoth. The pixels in the blog start to rust or dry rot or something if they aren't rearranged from time to time. Someone needs to do it.

As someone who used to read the early Lileks back in the paleoblogic era, I still haven't decided whether he descended into madness, or he was mad the whole time and I failed to notice. It's like chatting with an old guy at the bar, and he laughs and makes jokes, buys you a drink, says a few interesting things, reveals himself to be a little better educated than you would have imagined from his appearance and accent, but he slowly gets drunker and starts saying suspiciously eccentric things--not becoming incoherent per se, but using terminology that can only have learned from really objectionable sources. And then he says something so far over the line that you feel the need to gently push back, but you decide to let it go, and to divert the discussion instead. But he senses the diversionary tactic and throws it back at you: "What? You think I'm crazy or something." And so you push back gently, saying that reasonable people can disagree about whether the country has been going to hell ever since the U.S. went off the gold standard, and then his face turns beet red and he starts screaming in your face.

Anyway, that's how I felt after reading Lileks for a while.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 9:46 AM
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43: Great place you have here, Jroth! When Al was running for president, he gave a terrific top-10 list on Letterman (like, the only funny one in a decade-- "Top 10 Reasons to Vote for Al Gore"), and one of the items was "I gave you the internet, [looms menacingly] and I can take it away."


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 9:48 AM
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at CMU, it's funny

Don't be so modest, man. It's funny!


Posted by: Sybil Vane | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 9:53 AM
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47: That's... very vivid. I'm glad I don't have the urge to read these people.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 9:54 AM
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Analogizing in the first degree, though. Hey, I don't make the law.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 9:57 AM
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47: Well described. As I recall, TT's link to Lileks, in its pre-9/11 form, read something to the effect of, "I don't agree with all his politics, but he has an amazing trove of kitschy Americana." IOW, the reactionary impulse was always apparent, but I do think he went off the deep end on 9/11. I suppose it goes without saying, but that's an impulse I just don't get.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 9:59 AM
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Ooh, in other local news, Al Gore is speaking at alma mater's commencement (we got Jack Klugman).

Al Gore spoke at my college commencement, but that was back before he invented the internet, helped invent DLC centrism, supported the Iraq war, reinvented government, won the popular vote, lost the Supreme Court vote, opposed the Iraq war and reinvented Democratic liberalism.

So I didn't pay any attention.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:01 AM
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Did anyone see this article in the Hill about Lieberman? So annoying. Allegedly, Reid has promised Joe that he will get to keep his Seniority even if there are more Democratic Senators. Even if Lieberman speaks at the Republican Convention. I loathe him.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:02 AM
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Lileks is the guy that mingles jus' folks stories of his daughter doing something precious with how he wants to skullfuck Muslims, right?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:03 AM
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Lileks is the guy that mingles sugary reveries on simple small town friendliness with bitter rages at shop assistants who wish him "happy holidays."


Posted by: felix | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:11 AM
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53: When I was in HS, we did a leadership week in DC thing, and a buddy took a leak next to Al Gore in the Capitol. He (Gore) was running that year, so it was already a semi-big deal.

55: Yes. Creep.*

* Him, not you.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:11 AM
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55: along with the occasional whimsical anecdote about shopping at target and how this reveals the perfidy of liberals, yeah.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:13 AM
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55: Yes, that's the one, Cala.

I can't begrudge anyone some hours or days of panic in the wake of terrorism in a place that hasn't had it before. The shift from "them" to "us" is disconcerting. It's just that part of the basic responsibility of adulthood as I see it is to check impulses against the actual world around us. So the time to settle down was the afternoon of 9/11, or the morning of 9/13, or something like that.

But I have this working theory that there's a chunk of the American public that basically had gotten tired of being civilized. It's an impulse that's been nurtured by the conservative machine back to Nixon, and 9/11 was the license to give it full cry. Some of those who happily went animal now have the sense to be ashamed of it, but not all do.


Posted by: Bruce Baugh | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:14 AM
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57: A friend and I sat next to Nancy Reagan at a goofy young leaders (ha!) luncheon. He repeatedly asked her, "You gonna eat that?" about her roll, her salad, her dessert, etc. She said no and smiled and handed it all over right away.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:19 AM
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There was a talk arranged by my college's career center on government careers. The speaker had been one of those elite policy interns in the Clinton White House. One day, he said, he was walking down the front steps and saw a guy bent over as he loading up a car. Since it was a view from above, he saw the guy's prominent bald spot (not his face) and called out a snarky comment. The guy looked up... and it was a glaring Al Gore.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:23 AM
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Now, If Mark Steyn or someone equally as clever does the left side of the Blogiverse would Unfogged get a mention? Who would, beside Atrios and Kos?


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:23 AM
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If he used the same metric Roy seems to have (used to be relevant) I'm liking my co-blogger's chances.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:25 AM
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62: They really, really hate Amanda Marcotte and Jessica Valenti. Cuz, you know, girls are icky.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:26 AM
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If Mark Steyn or someone equally as clever does the left side of the Blogiverse would Unfogged get a mention?

No chance: Unfogged isn't primarily focused on politics.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:28 AM
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Who would, beside Atrios and Kos?

Yglesias, Drum, Firedoglake, at least one of the feminism sites.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:30 AM
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Mark Steyn or someone equally as clever

This phrase is both boggling my mind and making me laugh.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:30 AM
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Stupidity could be, I know, a yosh, or Adam Yoshida divided by 100.

A "feith."

I do think he went off the deep end on 9/11.

Johnson's the one I find sort of grossly fascinating, because more than any of the rest, his politics seemed rooted in obsessions that seem--AFAIK--to have only appeared after 9/11. As if he woke up on September 12th, shaken, traumatized, and utterly convinced that it was his mission to save the West from dhimmitude by whatever means necessary.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:34 AM
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67: You couldn't throw a rock without hitting somebody at least as clever. Equally clever might be difficult, though.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:39 AM
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I remember reading LGF prior to 9/11 and it was harmless. I still think Lileks MST 3000 type commentary on old movies and ads, etc. funny.

Mark Steyn is good on history of Broadway, etc. You don't have to like his politics.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:40 AM
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66: You forgot Poland Josh Marshall.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:40 AM
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And any right-winger would include that filthy commie dhimmi Juan Cole.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:41 AM
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70: I don't know about Broadway. I hate his politics, but he writes well. He's like a less stupid Pantload.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:41 AM
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68: "All the time I spent focused on jazz fusion I thought I was saving America, but I was ignoring the real issues! How could I have been so blind?"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:45 AM
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Also, I like that "Crunchy Con" conservative guy. He's vehemently anti Iraq war, thinks income inequality is a serious problem, and Bush is a disaster. What more do you want from a conservative?


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:48 AM
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Steyn is a loon. Just as dumb as Goldberg, once he gets on his pet subjects of the decline of Western civilization and the looming Muslim menace. Just because he can be witty about old Broadway figures doesn't change that.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:49 AM
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What more do you want from a conservative?

To shut the hell up about the evil faggotses.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:52 AM
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#74. Exactly. "Have you ever looked at a burqa, man? I mean, really looked at a burqa?"


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:56 AM
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Was LGF Johnson into jazz fusion? The Kenny G kind? That's worse than his politics.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 10:58 AM
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79: dude used play guitar with Al Jarreau and Stanley Clarke. Into jazz fusion? Hell, he helped invent it.

Kenny G, on the other hand, isn't actually fusion. I think they call it "soft jazz" or "light jazz" or something similarly anodyne.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:00 AM
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I still don't understand why some people get worked up about teh gays. Sure, the Bible, whatever, so don't do it if if squicks you out. Read the whole thing, as they say especially the parts that make you Xtian, not some renegade Jew splinter sect.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:03 AM
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I still don't understand why some people get worked up about teh gays.

Oh, I think I understand it, but they get incredibly pissed off if you suggest it.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:04 AM
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82: indeed.

"So, say, fellas, isn't your whole philosophy premised on the idea that gay sex is so deliciously tempting that we must keep away from even the thought of it, lest the devil guide our willing penises into some dude's sinful, sinful mouth?"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:06 AM
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Steyn is deeply, profoundly, A Number One stupid, and a topline wanker. Fortunately, with the imprisonment of Conrad Black and commercial sequelae, his profile in the UK is now indistinguishable from zero.

If you think his US work is crazy, you try his views on Canadian politics.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:07 AM
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That put a scare into me, but I checked the Stanley Clarke albusm I like and Johnson wasn't on any of them. Later on Clarke went bad anyway -- his early stuff was sort of borderline already in certain cheesy ways. Clarke was one guy who should never have been allowed to write a lyric, not even once, ever, ever, ever!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:08 AM
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85: Johnson did a lot of playing with people in the later, wankier phases of their careers.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:11 AM
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81: I think our tent is big enough for you, TLL. If we wrote a special exemption for you into our confiscatory taxation and ban on wood stoves program, could we close the sale today?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:12 AM
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He shouldn't be allowed to write his own Wiki either:

Stanley Clarke, to this day, remains as passionate about music as that young teen prodigy from Philly with big dreams. Like the man himself, his biography is a continuous work in progress. Legend is a word that has been associated with Stanley since he was 25, yet he remains unpretentious, preferring simple pleasures in the peaceful canyons where he resides in Los Angeles.

Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:14 AM
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87. Throw in an automatic weapon (just for self protection, natch) and you got a deal. I am leaning toward Obama anyway. Probably Stockholm syndrome from hanging around here.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:17 AM
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Johnson did a lot of playing with people in the later, wankier phases of their carepeeners.

Fixed.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:26 AM
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89: I think we've got a deal! Let's shake on it. Now, I've just got to go back and get a quick approval from the manager of the dealership...


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:32 AM
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89, 91: No, wait! Semi-automatic, but you get to use it for self protection and for fun. Deal?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:33 AM
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I still don't understand why some people get worked up about teh gays.

Another thing I like about Rod Dreher, the Crunchy Conservative guy, is that he admits the religious-conservative issue isn't really gays but sexual promiscuity outside of marriage in general, to include straights. Gays are just the most "scandalous" example of that.

I like that because it's A) honorable and intellectually consistent, B) not based on raw bigotry, and C) ensures total marginalization in the wider political debate.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:36 AM
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Sorry, the manager says no-can-do on the automatic weapon. But just between you and me, even though we can't write it into the contract, we'd be willing ratchet up Fourth Amendment protections to the point that you'll never have to worry about anyone finding your gun. Also, the boss is willing to thrown in "medical marijuana" on very generous terms, IYKWIM.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:42 AM
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Kenny G, on the other hand, isn't actually fusion. I think they call it "soft jazz" or "light jazz" or something similarly anodyne.

The proper term is "Fuzak"


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:44 AM
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93: The quote from him in Roy's article -- a bride with a tattoo is a "slut" -- doesn't recommend him.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:49 AM
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Here's the post.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:52 AM
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92, 94. Semi -auto and 4th Amendment absolutism will do. Keep the medical marijuana, or just include it in the UHC plan, that'll be ok.

93. And the abortion ban in necessary to properly punish promiscuity, or something. Obviously, in a perfect world every child a wanted child, etc. but I have more understanding for thinking that abortion kills an innocent.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:54 AM
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97: With an update clarifying he doesn't expect brides to be virgins so much as he expects them to be properly ashamed of their violation. Classy.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 11:56 AM
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I have more understanding for thinking that abortion kills an innocent.

Don't you worry, TLL. We're going to eliminate most surgical abortions through the nationwide installation of Plan B-dispensing vending machines in all secondary school restrooms and Abercrombie & Fitch fitting rooms. There will be a nominal fee, but low income children will receive free tokens through the school lunch program.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 12:00 PM
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100. Wait, I thought all the junior high school sluts were into buttsex and rainbow parties, so they don't need plan B.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 12:09 PM
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97
that post is outraging, what one wears on one's own wedding is none of his or anyone else's business


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 12:12 PM
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96, 97: he apologizes for use of the word in the addendum to the post.

When you include the addendum the post is thoughtful. The point of singling out gays is to plug into popular bigotry. But the actual Christian point is that sex should be enlisted in the service of sanctified marriage, which is a point that applies to most straight people these days. Being clear about that is more honest, less bigoted, and ensures that most people will disagree with you based on personal experience.

And the abortion ban in necessary to properly punish promiscuity, or something.

There's basically no Biblical justification for seeing abortion as equal to murder. I think it does two things. One is punish promiscuity (as you point out). A second is that it makes abortion such an overwhelming issue that it subordinates all other issues. That makes the culture war much simpler. Cutting funding for poor kids might seem unchristian. The Iraq war might seem to conflict with the Sermon on the Mount. But surely those things pale in comparison to murdering hundreds of thousands each year through abortion.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 12:13 PM
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I like that because it's [...] not based on raw bigotry

Bzzzzt. Try again.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 12:13 PM
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Being clear about that is more honest, less bigoted

Just as bigoted, merely less specific.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 12:14 PM
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102: you may never understand our asshole culture, read.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 12:19 PM
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102: read, I don't think that "outraging" is idiomatic English. I think that "infuriating" would work better there. "Outraging" would be a good word, since it sounds more active than outrageous, but I've never seen it used.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 12:21 PM
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I agree with Commenter Bostoniangirl, and move that we induct "outraging" into colloquial English.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 12:23 PM
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ok, got it, infuriating :)


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 12:24 PM
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understand our asshole culture

Reading the Tucker Max blog would help, though.
http://www.tuckermax.com/


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 12:25 PM
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not you, the post


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 12:25 PM
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Good lord, can he find something else to worry about besides whether some woman had a slinky wedding gown?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 12:26 PM
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Look, Dreher a conservative Christian. Nobody who posts here is. Being a conservative Christian means he's going to be against promiscuity and homosexuality, want to discipline people into marriage, have different roles for men and women, etc. If you think that's bigoted, fine, I can't disagree. I'm not a conservative Christian either.

But Christianity should also mean being at least suspicious of war and violence (actually, it should mean being pacifist where possible, but never mind that), hostile to the unconstrained greed of capitalism, opposed to torture, and so forth.

What most public Christians do is just push the gay-hating parts and jettison pretty all the difficult parts that contradict the Republican platform. At least he's trying to maintain the full scope of the religion's moral system. That's rare on the right, I respect him for that.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 12:26 PM
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The commenters are by and large worse. God, how dare anyone be fat in her wedding gown?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 12:29 PM
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Holy moly, PGD, don't confuse what Jesus taught as recorded in the New Testament with organized religion. That shit's about controlling people. Coupla wars fought about it too, if memory serves.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 12:32 PM
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God likes $100,000, but not butt cleavage.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 12:33 PM
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$100,000 weddings, even. I do not know what the Deity thinks of the American dollar.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 12:34 PM
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115: Yeah, I'm an agnostic but a secret Jesus fan. You're right that stuff has little to do with most organized religion -- Catholicism was the result of a weird cross between the Jesus movement and the Roman Empire. But Jesus continues to have a certain influence at times.

Here's Dreher on hippies, conservatism, and Iraq:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6817201

How many pro-war Democrats have admitted their error so frankly? (You have to listen to the end).

I see Dreher as a searcher in an interesting way, he puts tough questions to himself and wrestles with them. A different level than these wretched, complacent, vicious propagandists in most of the right wing blogsphere. So I cut him some slack.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 12:39 PM
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I had PGD's take on Dreher until I read Roy's piece, actually - I didn't realize just how much Sex Police stuff he did. I understand the point that it's of a piece with where he's coming from, but, to say the least, I feel as if it's been done - the Sex Police Movement doesn't need any assistance from Mr. Dreher, whereas most of his other positions are bolstered by his support (ie, he's a good "even the conservative Rod Dreher thinks..." guy). I don't think he needs the Sex Police aspect to give him cover, b/c he's obviously conservative and Xian about everything else.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 1:43 PM
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I do not know what the Deity thinks of the American dollar.

It needs more colors, and I'd like my name taken off of it, please. Also, the pyramid with the eye kinda creeps me out.


Posted by: God | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 1:47 PM
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116: The notion of, the possibility for butt cleavage first entered my consciousness in Flowers in the Attic, where the hidden children spy on their mother attending a party in such a dress.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 1:51 PM
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They maybe weren't tough enough on Instapundit or McArdle

McArdle's young. There's still a slim chance she'll grow out of it.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 2:12 PM
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I don't change my judgment of her cheap morals and her bad manners

"On the other hand, it's not at all indecent to be thinking about the bride's hymen while you sit in church, nor is it bad manners to pass judgment on other people's morals or clothing."


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 2:17 PM
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I recommend Edroso's post on the reactions from the profiled WingNetters.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 2:19 PM
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thinking about the bride's hymen while you sit in church

my rule of thumb is that if you're thinking about the bride's hymen, then the sermon's too long and the bridesmaids' dresses aren't racy enough.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 2:20 PM
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What most public Christians do is just push the gay-hating parts and jettison pretty all the difficult parts that contradict the Republican platform. At least he's trying to maintain the full scope of the religion's moral system. That's rare on the right, I respect him for that.

IIRC, Dreher jettisoned the difficult parts, too, until recently. I'm pretty sure he backed the war. Deathbed conversions are still conversions, but there is a reason we make special note of them.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 2:22 PM
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Dreher, 2003:

We're already moving toward Baghdad in our war against Iraq, one I believe with all my heart is just and necessary. We don't know how long it will last, or what the fallout will be. When the smoke clears, I am afraid that one home-front casualty will be some friendships. [...]

I've not had that same sense of outrage, but that's probably because long ago I quit talking about the war to most friends who disagree with me. It wasn't my choice, but it was necessary if we were still to be friends. It shouldn't be this way. I've tried to think through my pro-war position carefully, and if I'm wrong in my facts or analysis, I want to know. But in my (deeply unpleasant) experience, there's simply no point in talking to most antiwar people, left and right, because they're lost in a fever swamp of emotionalism.

It doesn't improve much from there.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 2:32 PM
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125: I bet you don't believe in virgin brides, either, D2. You're what's wrong with America.

Oh, wait. You're what's *right* with America. We had a revolution in order to rid ourselves of your corrupt old world mores.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-16-08 2:36 PM
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