Re: Played by Paper

1

The true message of the posts is hidden in their differences. It's surprising.


Posted by: Zippy | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 6:46 PM
horizontal rule
2

I didn't mean to delete the version of this post that had Witt's comment. Played by movable type. Hélas!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 6:46 PM
horizontal rule
3

It was just once, it meant nothing...


Posted by: di kotimy | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 6:51 PM
horizontal rule
4

The one reference to unfogged in wikipedia is a defense of that kind of thing.


Posted by: Zippy | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 6:58 PM
horizontal rule
5

Actually, it's not so easy to say what "this kind of thing" is. I was going to end the post by saying "Ephebophilia. It's real.", but the following factors need to be taken into consideration:

1. She is made up, and dressed, as an older person would be
2. It's quite common for people in my general age group to attempt to look like recent postpubescents
3. (This is specific to the term) Ephebophilia is attraction to pubescents/immediate postpubescents exclusively or as such.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:03 PM
horizontal rule
6

(The reference to which Zip alludes. Fifteen to twenty-five seems an awfully broad range.)


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:04 PM
horizontal rule
7

Right, so .... Uh, let's see: Ben, people grow into and through love! Start with 14 (can be pretty hot, you know), she eventually becomes 35, and your standards of beauty change.

No? How about: what the fuck is Paper? Or: What did Witt say? Or: ageist.

Or.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:06 PM
horizontal rule
8

So you like that look, eh? She does look like she might be as old as twenty, and like you could beat her in arm-wrestling, so I'm inclined to give you a pass on this one.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:06 PM
horizontal rule
9

It didn't even occur to me that the photos might be online.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:08 PM
horizontal rule
10

Or: what's your point? I seem to want to ask.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:09 PM
horizontal rule
11

What did Witt say?

Witt made a cutting remark about the fact that there were briefly two versions of this post.

Or: what's your point? I seem to want to ask.

These things have to have a point now?

Or: honey, the point's in the writing.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:11 PM
horizontal rule
12

2. It's quite common for people in my general age group to attempt to look like recent postpubescents

Does that make you think that people in your general age group are idiots?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:13 PM
horizontal rule
13

Hard to say. The conclusion's overdetermined.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:14 PM
horizontal rule
14

entirely without proairesis

I think you're baiting me, but I'm choosing not to be taken in.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:16 PM
horizontal rule
15

I wasn't aware that that was an avenue by which you could be baited.

You prefer the transliteration "prohairesis"?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:17 PM
horizontal rule
16

I doubt the possibility of acting without proairesis, outside of things like recoiling from a hot stove, etc.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:18 PM
horizontal rule
17

As you know, ogged, appetite can move each of our bodily parts (1147a35).


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:23 PM
horizontal rule
18

You might also look at this paper, except you can't.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:25 PM
horizontal rule
19

Cf. 1146b22–4: For the one [ie, the self-indulgent] is led on in accordance with his own choice, thinking that he ought always to pursue the present pleasure; while the other [ie the akratic] does not think so, but yet pursues it; of course that only says that the akratic doesn't believe that he ought to pursue the present pleasure, but I don't think it's a stretch to think that he also isn't acting in accordance with his choice.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:28 PM
horizontal rule
20

I thought we'd discussed my rejection of akrasia before, and that's why I thought you were baiting me.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:34 PM
horizontal rule
21

I seem to have been baited by my own petard.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:34 PM
horizontal rule
22

Oh, right, that's true. If you deny the phenomena, you don't need to suppose that you can act w/o proairesis, but then, you also don't even need the concept of proairesis as Aristotle develops it.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:35 PM
horizontal rule
23

I don't remember how he develops it, so I defer to you on that one.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:39 PM
horizontal rule
24

Sadly, I puzzle over what a rejection of akrasia might amount to. All I can see is a realignment of one's understanding of what constitutes one's proper judgment. This is not an unknown thing.

This is utterly not my field, of course, as is obvious.

Y'all are making me smile. As for the point being in the writing, b-wo, of course.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 7:55 PM
horizontal rule
25

4: I think that this gets half credit. Or is it in the same class as the confidence trick (thus not counting as a reference to unfogged)?

"Arrrgh, I was Og'ed"


Posted by: feldspar | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 8:07 PM
horizontal rule
26

but then, you also don't even need the concept of proairesis as Aristotle develops it.

One (or Ogged) might still want to distinguish between wish and choice (and even between choice and appetite, while denying that appetite is the sort of thing that can cause action on its own).

Here, Joanna Newsom tells a cock joke, badly.


Posted by: Merganser | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 8:21 PM
horizontal rule
27

Witt made a cutting remark

Ben, Ben. A gentle slice was all. If I'd intended to cut, you'd have known it. You know I stay up on my knife skills.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 8:46 PM
horizontal rule
28

an unusually heavy breakfast (roast leg of lamb; risotto with peas and green garlic)

What is it with unfogged and weird breakfasts? Scrambled eggs and cold pizza aren't good enough for you elitists?


Posted by: spaz | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:00 PM
horizontal rule
29

Leftovers, spaz. Plus I broke my fast at noon.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:01 PM
horizontal rule
30

I don't read Paper. Let's get that clear from the get-go. This was a one-time thing, an action in which, to be frank, I simply don't recognize myself. I've forgiven myself, and I hope each of you can find it in h/hself to do so as well.

I find no need to forgive the reading of Paper; it is the sheer pathetic asshattery of starting a blog post with such a paragraph that is unforgivable.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:09 PM
horizontal rule
31

:(


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:11 PM
horizontal rule
32

Sometimes the commenters are mean, Ben. It's because they're impotent.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:12 PM
horizontal rule
33

(pause)

snorting giggle-fit!

(/pause)


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:13 PM
horizontal rule
34

impotent s/b imprudent s/b impudent


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:13 PM
horizontal rule
35

Wasn't the pause ended by the giggle-fit itself?

Or is the giggle-fit contained in the pause? There will be a break now, for giggling?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:15 PM
horizontal rule
36

The pause pertains to the thread, the giggle-fit pertains to the commenter.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:17 PM
horizontal rule
37

It was the pause symbol followed by the play symbol, Ben, and for the latter I substitute an end pause.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:17 PM
horizontal rule
38

32: Come again?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:18 PM
horizontal rule
39

Mmmm, risotto. Wish I had some.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:19 PM
horizontal rule
40

Come again?

You first.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:20 PM
horizontal rule
41

14-24 and their referents and referrers fly in the face of current neuroscience research.

However I learned at dinner that I may only want to say this because of a naïve American faith in positivism.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:26 PM
horizontal rule
42

Yglesias had the whole ephebophilia thing covered awhile ago.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:36 PM
horizontal rule
43

14-26, the difference is 12 yrs, pretty compatible
so if you wait until she reaches adulthood like 4 more yrs, it's possible for you to ask her out
i like BW's pro-active attitude and wonder whether he got any responses to that simeon stylish profile


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:41 PM
horizontal rule
44

whether he got any responses to that simeon stylish profile

No, but someone in MA apparently registered just to look at it. (It's not just vanity that makes me think this.)


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:43 PM
horizontal rule
45

Wouldn't anyone who responded looking for a date be showing that she doubted Simeon's faith?


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:44 PM
horizontal rule
46

At the end of the story, Hadleyburg's motto is "Lead us into temptation".


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:45 PM
horizontal rule
47

Or would Simeon just say something like "I may be mystically married - but I'm not dead."


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:46 PM
horizontal rule
48

snorting giggle-fit!

A girl I knew at school used to snort when she laughed. It was very charming.

Apparently, the Momsens (Great-Great Grandpa Theodor must be spinning in the grave, eh?) are the latest Kate-n-Ashley gig. You were taken in, dear Ben. Don't flog yourself over it.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 9:53 PM
horizontal rule
49

A simultaneous snort and giggle was not indicated, Populuxe. You know I don't do that.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 10:06 PM
horizontal rule
50

Well, it would've been charming.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 10:09 PM
horizontal rule
51

Snorting is a wonderful release of tension and bad energy. Snorting therapy is becoming quite faddish in certain crowds in New York; many Hot Yoga teachers suffering from permanent dehydration have taken to leading snorting classes for the boat-show-and-bassinet set.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 10:09 PM
horizontal rule
52

I use a bassinet to carry about my basset hound.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 10:10 PM
horizontal rule
53

The pram-and-aged-parm scene, doncha know.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 10:14 PM
horizontal rule
54

Man! Sorry, I thought there was some allusion to the honking laugh in there somewhere. No, don't do that.

I snort in the privacy of my own home.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 04-17-08 10:20 PM
horizontal rule
55

I totally gave up snorting anything.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 12:10 AM
horizontal rule
56

I take this opportunity to remind Becks that hotortwelve.com is still unregistered, as per our conversation at the Brickskellar or whatever it was called. There is an ill-reputed fortune to be made with that domain name.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 7:34 AM
horizontal rule
57

56. That sounds like an excellent idea, and probably a good way to get yourself extraordinarily rendered somewhere.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 7:40 AM
horizontal rule
58

But I'm told those places are sunny and warm and I'd be served lemon chicken. I'm not seeing a problem.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 7:44 AM
horizontal rule
59

Any mention of risotto around my 15 month old causes the little one to begin demanding it. "Dodo!" "Dodo!" Banging on the highchair tray is what follows, along with some snorting. Which, as long as there is some risotto in the fridge, is actually really cool. I'm not sure the snorting is theraputic though. And of course, no risotto, no peace.


Posted by: benton | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 8:00 AM
horizontal rule
60

40: "Come again?" ... You first.

Hmm, I can't seem to bring myself to do that.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 8:03 AM
horizontal rule
61

hotortwelve.com is still unregistered

However, I'm willing to transfer you the rights to hotandtwelve.com for the right price. Make me an offer.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 8:15 AM
horizontal rule
62

Momsen also appears in Gus Van Sant's Paranoid Park as a self-obsessed cheerleader whose skater boyfriend accidentally murders a security guard.

I haven't seen the movie, but this can't be right.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 9:19 AM
horizontal rule
63

62: what? Why?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 9:20 AM
horizontal rule
64

Also every time I see the title of this post I get this stuck in my head. On balance, this is not a bad thing.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 9:22 AM
horizontal rule
65

He either accidentally killed him or murdered him, he didn't accidentally murder him. Unless he was trying to murder someone else and murdered the security guard instead, maybe then he accidentally murdered him.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 9:25 AM
horizontal rule
66

65: well so maybe he did, then.

He could have also accidentally killed him but then been convicted of a murder, an outcome the movie allows us to see through.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 9:28 AM
horizontal rule
67

Roast leg of lamb and risotto for breakfast? Good lord, is he pregnant or something? What's a normal lunch, an entire steer?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 10:20 AM
horizontal rule
68

66:

however, if the legal system can make something by definition a "murder" by convicting someone of murder, then by the definition of murder the legal system also makes it non-accidental.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 12:08 PM
horizontal rule
69

68: right but given the parameters of a fictionally constructed universe, there could be a legally construed murder that we, the audience, understood was actually accidental.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 12:10 PM
horizontal rule
70

What's a normal lunch

Three tablespoons of spirulina powder and Perrier.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 12:10 PM
horizontal rule
71

there could be a legally construed murder that we, the audience, understood was actually accidental.

This expresses the same idea as: the character could have been found guilty of murder even though he did not commit murder.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 12:16 PM
horizontal rule
72

71: which the plot summary expressed in convenient shorthand!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 12:18 PM
horizontal rule
73

which the plot summary caption to a photo of a fourteen-year-old expressed in convenient shorthand!

The caption to the photo of the 14-year-old says the killing was both accidental and murder, 69 and 71 say that it was accidental, not murder, and that he was nevertheless found guilty of murder.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 12:45 PM
horizontal rule
74

73: according to the standards of the law, it was murder. According to the standards of the just viewer, it was an accident, according to the stupid fan website that I've been inexplicably defending for most of the day now, it was both. Not so complicated!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-18-08 12:49 PM
horizontal rule