Re: Yankees Suck

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Your title gets it right, in that you can always hang on to your familial traditions of hating all the other teams, even if your team is newly yours.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:44 PM
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You're supposed to like it for the baseball?

Well, not if you go to Nationals games.

Perhaps ogged and SCMTim will share their feelings about the game.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:45 PM
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Perhaps ogged and SCMTim will share their feelings about the game.


Posted by: sam k | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:47 PM
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I went to the Yankee game tonight, but they lost, and it was cold. The main point of interest is that Gary Sheffield responds to being booed by hitting home runs.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:48 PM
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The whole point is to have "your team", which was the same team your father rooted for and your grandmother rooted for and has been passed down to you your whole life.

I've always thought that the entire franchise-based structure of American sports is designed to make a mockery of this impulse. In Europe, say, sports teams are always geographically rooted: sometimes by county or region or other actual local-government unit, and sometimes by city or what have you (like Manchester United or AC Milan). The idea that one of these teams might up sticks and move elsewhere is absurd. And yet this happens routinely in pro-sports America. I find it weird that new sports franchises can build a loyal base of support, and am forced to conclude that Americans will join up for any old thing if there will be hot dogs and flags and cheering.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:48 PM
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I've been to games involving teams I didn't care about, and they were fun -- I like the game for itself, the rhythms of it and so on -- but yeah, the emotional investment is pretty key. That said, even given the past few years, I wouldn't wish an emotional investment in the red sox on anybody.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:48 PM
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My late paternal grandfather took me to Redskins games. I was supposed to feel grateful that he could do this and had season tickets and everything. It never stuck. I simply can't make myself like football, and I like it even less when I think about "the 'skins".


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:50 PM
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If you don't care which team wins, no sporting event is great, unless you're just rooting for the highest possible score or the greatest potential for palable crowd emotion.

Baseball may be the hardest to enjoy without caring which team wins, because the events on the field are so spread out that except on rare occasions there's not much palpable crowd emotion. Momentum builds up a couple times a game, but aside from that it's all about the tension between the pitcher and the hitter, which you either feel or you don't.

American Football is pretty bad for that too, but at least there are "drives".

In basketball, hockey, soccer there is a constant back-and-forth of shifting "this is good" / "this is bad" events.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:50 PM
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4: that's, uh, too bad I guess.

Did you hear about the Sox game?

What a thriller!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:50 PM
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Have I mentioned that I didn't start rooting for the Pirates until 2 years after Barry Bonds failed to throw out the slowest man in baseball, scoring from second on a grounder to left?

I've got timing.

At least tonight I had the solace that they lost to my childhood team, which I still like to see win. But, no, no intergenerational ties. I get to hear about Kiner and Clemente and Stargell from strangers, not my grandfather.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:53 PM
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3 clearly meant to write: Perhaps ogged and SCMTim will share their feelings about the game for each other.

9: They said something on the jumbotron about a walk-off single by the greek god of walks, which does sound like a thriller.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:53 PM
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Gonerill: Do the Australians do sports like Eurpoeans, with teams bound to places, rather than franchises? I always had the impression that they are the biggest jocks in the English speaking world.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:53 PM
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I find it weird that new sports franchises can build a loyal base of support, and am forced to conclude that Americans will join up for any old thing if there will be hot dogs and flags and cheering.

Every franchise was new at one time.

When one team moves away and is replaced by a different team with a different name in the same location, it's really a no-win situation for the fans, though. They can't follow either the new team or the old team without feeling like they've been had.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:54 PM
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I went to the Yankee game tonight, but they lost, and it was cold.

Someday you, too, can say you were at one of the games that extinguished the hopes and dreams of Phil Hughes. Was it like seeing a man drowning?, your grandchildren will ask. You'll laugh indulgently. No, kids, with a twinkle, when a man is drowning, sometimes people dive in to save him. But we just had Steinbrenners.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:55 PM
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You know I think the franchise system is further proof that the capitalist wing of the Republican party has more power than the traditionalist wing in the US. Or maybe it is just that capital has more power than tradition.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:57 PM
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8: I find that it all depends on your love for the sport, not for the nature of the game. I'm easily sucked into hockey and baseball games between teams I couldn't care less about, whereas I wouldn't watch a basketball game between anyone (I used to care about the Knicks, but...), and I barely care about football unless I can tie one of the teams to someone I like (Steelers, Giants, plus a couple vestigial family connections) or someone I hate (Dolphins, Dallas). But Niners-Vikings? Isn't there a thread about analytic philosophy somewhere?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:57 PM
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11: one-hitter by Lester, one-walk complete game from Halladay, kickass fielding from Pedey, clutch baserunning by David Ortiz (!) sporting an injured leg (!!): it had it all.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:58 PM
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14 is awesome, as was the Sox game.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:58 PM
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Australia does things code by code; Ruby League's club based (except for Origin, which is sepcial), Union's moving to some sort of franchise thingy, I think AFL's club based, and football's franchised at the A-League level.

Australia's quite sporty, but split 4 ways in the winter.

NZ's even worse -- all the rugby clubs are run by the NZRFU, who allocate players and so-on. It's kind of a farce...

Do any pro American sports have relegation?


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:59 PM
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I moved around a great deal as a kid, so I never got the chance to devote myself to a local team. I resented our move to KC so much (3rd move in 7 years of my young life) that I really hated the Royals. I have a journal somewhere from when I was eight celebrating that they'd lost the game I went to.

NYC is a fun town to go to bars and watch games in, just because the locals all care so damn much. I like watching good baseball played, but mostly, I go to bars during the playoffs to watch the fans.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:59 PM
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I find it weird that new sports franchises can build a loyal base of support, and am forced to conclude that Americans will join up for any old thing if there will be hot dogs and flags and cheering.

This, plus the universal popularity of an opportunity to jeer at hippies, is the basis for American foreign policy over the last seven years.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:59 PM
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Voluntary vicarious association, in the words of my History of American Sports professor.

But a more pressing question: are bad dates only necessary in the context of Indiana Jones, or are they a fact of life everywhere? I am already drunk and need to do work, but feel compelled to stop off at my local bar on the way home to improve my spirits.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 9:59 PM
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5: aye, I agree, and wherever I've moved have only rooted for my hometown teams. If one of them moved or something, I think I'd probably boycott the sport.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:00 PM
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capital has more power than tradition

Obviously.

It's amazing to me that sport-loving citizens of Boston, Cleveland, Manhattan, Brooklyn, Philly, Baltimore, DC, etc. can be anything other than rabid anti-capitalists. Hell, I resented the Giants for moving to NJ, and I lived in NJ.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:01 PM
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Do any pro American sports have relegation?

Sadly, no. They're all government-permitted cartels that forbid new entrants.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:04 PM
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Also, the Giants suck this year. Consider yourselves lucky you don't live in the SFBA.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:04 PM
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I find that it all depends on your love for the sport, not for the nature of the game. I'm easily sucked into hockey and baseball games between teams I couldn't care less about, whereas I wouldn't watch a basketball game between anyone (I used to care about the Knicks, but...), and I barely care about football unless I can tie one of the teams to someone I like (Steelers, Giants, plus a couple vestigial family connections) or someone I hate (Dolphins, Dallas). But Niners-Vikings? Isn't there a thread about analytic philosophy somewhere?

I meant watching the game live.

I can't watch any NBA team between any teams from anywhere on TV. It's just one damn thing after another and I fail to detect any momentum.

Being there in the crowd is a totally different experience.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:05 PM
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I am turning my decision making over to the internet: Do I go to bed now (I have a full day tomorrow) or open another beer and make strange comments here?


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:05 PM
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24 reminds that I should point out that obviously the Braves are traitors, but being in the generally traitorous national league who gives a shit?

I still miss the old Boston Garden; I wonder what it will do to the Yankees to have Yankee (hate) Stadium torn down?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:08 PM
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Also, the Giants suck this year. Consider yourselves lucky you don't live in the SFBA.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:08 PM
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I really can't believe that they let teams move from state to state; in a civilised country, you wouldn't get away with it.


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:10 PM
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Do any pro American sports have relegation?

No. Should, but don't. NFL and NBA don't really have minor leagues, hockey minor leagues are extremely minor, and I've always heard that even extremely bad MLB teams (such as my beloved Pirates) are still much, much better than even the best minor league teams. It would be weird to have a couple of shitty MLB teams kicking the shit out of everyone in AAA level.

And 14 is, indeed, awesome. Meant to say so in 24.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:10 PM
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I think I like Keir, despite his(?) inpenetrable allegedly political name.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:11 PM
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Sorry about the bad date, water. Perhaps it was bad enough to tell us about?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:11 PM
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Goddamn EDGE network. The blame for my double post rests with you. Rob, you should definitely open another beer.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:12 PM
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never mind, I'm going to bed.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:12 PM
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Yeah, if you don't tell us about it, helpy-chalk will end up going to bed beer-less.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:13 PM
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27: Ah. Other than baseball, never been to a major league sporting event without a rooting interest. I grew up watching all sports, so I'd imagine I'd always be able to enjoy, but I would inevitably conjure up a preference. I might cheer good plays by both teams, but I'd be pulling for one within minutes, possibly for no reason whatsoever.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:14 PM
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I think I like Keir

Thanks...

despite his(?) inpenetrable allegedly political name.

His, and if founding the British Labour Party can't get you any respect, what will?


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:15 PM
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Dammit, water moccasin, see what you did?


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:15 PM
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Now that I think about it, the post is basically right. I used to be into basketball, but the Blazers have been so intolerably bad for years I can't be bothered, and it doesn't make any sense to cultivate interest in another team.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:17 PM
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if founding the British Labour Party can't get you any respect, what will?

Renouncing the holy shit out of Jeremiah Wright.

'Night, all.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:18 PM
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Also, I feel the need to point out that my team hasn't moved in more than a hundred years. Also, we have a spiffy new ballpark. Take that, grasshoppers.

But I still have a little residual loyalty to the Bosox from the paternal line.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:19 PM
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24 reminds that I should point out that obviously the Braves are traitors, but being in the generally traitorous national league who gives a shit?

Wha?

The Athletics and Twins were well-established teams that moved to new cities.

I really can't believe that they let teams move from state to state; in a civilised country, you wouldn't get away with it.

It's part of being a cartel that limits new membership.

When a new city becomes prominent enough to merit a new top-league football team, the owners of all the other teams chuckle, and each one says "Ha, pathetic local politicians, we've got you now! Because there can only be exactly 30 top-league football teams, one of us is going to have to move to Charlotte, North Carolina! I bet you sure hope your team isn't going to be the one that leaves -- wouldn't that be embarrassing, and make the voters unhappy? Now, if you'll just agree to be extorted out of hundreds of millions of dollars to build new things for us, we promise to stay put."

They prefer to do this, but sometimes they also agree to let a brand-new franchise be created, because they are allowed to charge hundreds of millions of dollars (split between the existing franchises) in fees to investors who want to start a new franchise and have it start right up in the very top league.

It's extremely easy to create new franchises at the very bottom level of sports. But there is no mechanism at all by which these franchises could grow organically and become major-league franchises. If the city is really really really supportive of its minor-league team, the big league says "Okay, this city finally deserves our presence" and plops down a new big team, making the minor-league team become obsolete or have to move somewhere else. This happened in Minneapolis/St. Paul, San Francisco, L.A., Montreal...

Of course, the owners of the minor-league franchise aren't hurt very much by moving around.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:19 PM
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Enh. I should have left money on the table and taken off when she went to the bathroom. Just no chemistry at all. Irionically, given her professed hatred of Las Vegas, the interaction was totally in the vegas-chick-engineer style. Cute, but not cute enough to make it worth the incredible effort.

The only consolation is that she felt the same way.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:19 PM
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44: generally traitorous in that it has resolutely failed to be the American league. Don't read too much into what I'm saying, here.

vegas-chick-engineer style

Oh, I must know: what?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:24 PM
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the vegas-chick-engineer style

This is a style?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:30 PM
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As 8 points out, you're basically just discovering that baseball is boring as hell. Don't let this prejudice you against sports played by athletes.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:32 PM
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48: like swimming!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:34 PM
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If more Americans went to college, college sports would be more popular than professional.


Posted by: ed bowlinger | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:37 PM
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46.2: theoretically should be interested (due to hotness/money), but the interaction reveals that the true desires are ambition and competence, respectively.

This weekend, someone asked if we were all gay. "No," was the answer. "We're just engineers."


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:38 PM
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the Blazers have been so intolerably bad for years

Yeah, sucks to be a Blazers fan.

My dad took me to my first pro basketball game when I was in fifth or sixth grade. Clippers v. Blazers. Worth it just to watch Drexler.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:39 PM
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Sorry. There is an order of operations there. ((Vegas Chick)-Engineer) style.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:40 PM
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Is Vegas known for its chick engineers?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:40 PM
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one-walk complete game from Halladay

That'd be a no-hitter, but I'll read you charitably. Unlike someone in a pizza-related thread I can think of.

What an ugly finish in this Suns-Spurs game.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:40 PM
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Well.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:40 PM
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In Europe, say, sports teams are always geographically rooted: sometimes by county or region or other actual local-government unit, and sometimes by city or what have you (like Manchester United or AC Milan). The idea that one of these teams might up sticks and move elsewhere is absurd.

and

I really can't believe that they let teams move from state to state; in a civilised country, you wouldn't get away with it.

Both of these comments will come as quite a surprise to supporters of Wimbledon F.C.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:41 PM
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Oh, the vegas chick with an engineer style. Got it.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:41 PM
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50 is just so, so silly.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:41 PM
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You know, water moccasin, you could have avoided that confusion by using an en dash, thus: "vegas chick–engineer".


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:41 PM
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Do any pro American sports have relegation?

I guess this would presuppose them having proper leagues, instead of weird conference arrangements and playoff things. There are people who've studied the emergence of U.S. sports -- they're all more like each other in organization than they are like similar sports in other countries. I can't help feeling it probably parallels the organization of the political system in some way.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:42 PM
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52: Yeah, they had a good team in the mid to late 80s, and Clyde was awesome.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:43 PM
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55: it would be a no hitter if you exclude the hits against him, yes.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:43 PM
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Both of these comments will come as quite a surprise to supporters of Wimbledon F.C.

Yeah that model really took off.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:45 PM
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Both of these comments will come as quite a surprise to supporters of Wimbledon F.C.

I did say civilised countries, no?

(And what 64 said; there's now a Wimbledon AFC which has all the history of Wimbledon FC, and the MK Dons aren't allowed to pretend they've anything to do with Wimbledon FC.)


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:48 PM
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Yeah that model really took off.

It's only been, what, 5 years? Give it time.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:49 PM
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Are we to understand that vegas chicks are more discriminating judges of engineers than engineers might have hoped and believed? Sad.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:50 PM
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MK Dons aren't allowed to pretend they've anything to do with Wimbledon FC

Well, except for the "Dons" bit.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:51 PM
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Yeah, sucks to be a Blazers fan.

They're going to be really, really good if the Oden comes back and stays healthy. Not as good as the Lakers, but still good.

The Suns' loss was just sad.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:52 PM
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67 is really rather funny.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:54 PM
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See, in the US nothing can replace the top-league team once it leaves. The fans don't follow the franchise in its new city, because like Wimbledon, the franchise was a traitor to its geographical area. The fans have to start following whatever their second-choice team was, or just sit and wait if things look promising for being given a new top-league team.

Then the top league can deign to add a new franchise in the city that was just deprived of its ancestral franchise -- choosing the new team's owners, of course. The owners then decide whether they want the team to "maintain the history of the old team" (e.g. Cleveland Browns), or "be a new team" (e.g. Houston Texans).

This is happening with the Seattle NBA team as we speak. What will Seattle fans do? Sure as hell not continue to follow the team in its new home in the Dust Bowl. Switch to the next-closest team geographically (Portland)? Yeah, but that was traditionally the Seattle team's rival, as one might expect from nearby cities with a friendly rivalry.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 10:55 PM
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71: There's talk here of the Blazers moving up to Seattle if/when the Sonics leave. Whether that's at all likely I don't know.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 11:04 PM
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67: If it was only that simple. Engineers are used to being judged in such a manner. The bilateral nature of things is the noteworthy bit.


Posted by: water moccasin | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 11:04 PM
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I can't help feeling it probably parallels the organization of the political system in some way.

+

If the city is really really really supportive of its minor-league team, the big league says "Okay, this city finally deserves our presence" and plops down a new big team, making the minor-league team become obsolete or have to move somewhere else.

=>

Settler colonialism.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 11:04 PM
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2004, the first (and perhaps last) year that Rory followed a little MLB. Stupid Bartman crushed her young (and naive) hopes of seeing the Cubs in the World Series. She learned of the devastating news the following morning, and spent a bit of time grieving. Finally, she collected her crushed little spirit, and spontaneously proclaimed, "Maybe next year."

She then shifted her hopes to the Red Sox. When the Yankees knocked them out of the playoffs, we tried to hide it from Rory. Turned off the TV whenever sports came on, hoped she might just forget. Then my little brother casually let the truth slip. Rory hurled a pillow across the living room and angrily protested, "The Yankees are ruining baseball!"


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 11:34 PM
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75: in 2004?

You should let the poor dear know what year it actually is.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 11:35 PM
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About 1950, US and Europe decided to switch ideologies when it comes to sports. We have a basically fascist (state-sponsored monopoly) sports economy. Over there, you set up shop, and if you can beat enough teams, congratulations, you're in division three. Baseball salaries are ridiculously managed before free agency. Soccer salaries, post-Bosman, are determined by the free market. Don't get me started on trades. (Bonus soccer news: Ronaldo (the fat one, not the good one) was busted with three transvestite whores in Brazil).


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 11:38 PM
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Baseball salaries are ridiculously managed before free agency.

Do you hate all unions, or just the MLBPA?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 04-29-08 11:49 PM
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Do you hate all unions, or just the MLBPA?
I'll have you know that I stopped beating my wife last Sunday (on a bet).

My objection isn't that rookies are paid too much, but too little. Lester and Pedroia, who saved the damn game for the sox tonight, would, in a just world, be paid more than Crisp. But they're not. Rooney left Everton for ManU at 18, and collects a big huge paycheck for his troubles. I respect the hell out of the MLBPA, especially in contrast to their anemic NFL equivalent, but the system is still fucked.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 12:05 AM
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75: There was a whole other game after the Bartman incident and the Cubbies lost it all on their ownsome. Nevertheless, I sobbed like a baby while Yankee-fan brothers laughed hysterically.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 2:14 AM
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72: Portland could become America's premiere sports-free venue. I'd love it. UofP women's soccer would be the only game in town. None of the other college teams are Division I contenders in anything.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:44 AM
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No one has yet mentioned the joy of conquest one city gets for stealing another city's team. Or the pride in having arrived.

People in Baltimore can accept the Ravens as cosmic justice for the 'theft' of the Colts -- everyone remembers the image of the mayor crying over their stealthy departure, an image he rode to the Governor's Mansion -- and the people of OK City can love the Sonics as a reward for their growth and steadfastness. Unlike those flighty coastal elites who wouldn't do what it takes to keep the team.

I root for the football team of my youth, for which I take endless grief (they've done pretty well over the years), and which leads me to wish ill of the team where I live, even if someone gives me tickets. There wasn't a baseball team in my hometown until after I moved away -- I've certainly never rooted for the Rangers -- and it was a longer and more complicated route that led me to a team, and yet somehow the passion is as strong. We had a minor league hockey team, and my parents had season tickets, so I went to a few games. This did not translate into loyalty to the parent team when we moved away, or to the new team, and I'm now broadly indifferent. I can then root calmly for the home team when I go to a game, but there's no passion.

Chocolate/vanilla, Ginger/Maryann, red/white, red/green: We're an interesting animal, and plenty of it doesn't make sense.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:11 AM
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The FA has, post the criticism they received over the Wimbledon debacle, put in place new and much tighter rules on club relocation.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:37 AM
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84: People in Baltimore can accept the Ravens as cosmic justice for the 'theft' of the Colts

But the Colts were just delayed retribution for stealing the Orioles from St. Louis. (The Browns, not that St. Louis mourned that one.) So Baltimore is still one up.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:15 AM
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And the St. Louis Browns were originally based in Milwaukee, Stormcrow.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:23 AM
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I've certainly never rooted for the Rangers

Nobody can root for the [Texas] Rangers: worst franchise in professional sports, AND formerly owned by G. Bush.

This did not translate into loyalty to the parent team when we moved away, or to the new team, and I'm now broadly indifferent.

Well, I still like the Blackhawks, except when they're playing the Stars. And speaking of which:

STARS WIN! STARS WIN! STARS WIN!

max
['WOO HOO!']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:27 AM
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And the Braves were from Boston, and the Athletics were from Philadelphia.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:29 AM
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I saw a movie in the 60s, where some guys who had been completely cut off from the world found a radio, and one of them was listening to the sports and said, "Hey, they've moved Brooklyn to LA!" I suppose playing money games with the franchises was a less developed art in those days.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:35 AM
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I should have left money on the table and taken off when she went to the bathroom.

That would be a totally shitty thing to do.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:52 AM
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85: [Browns from Milwaukee] Yes, back in 1901, moved in 1902.

And Milwaukee in turn "stole" the Brewers from Seattle, where they were the Pilots for one year in the late '60s. Most notable for being where Jim Bouton spent most of his season as he was writing Ball Four.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:59 AM
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Doesnt Ogged have a swim meet coming up?


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:11 AM
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And the Yankees were originally the Baltimore Orioles. Back in the day.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:21 AM
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The Yankees came from Baltimore, originally. They still suck.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:25 AM
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Crabcakes at a baseball game do not suck.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:34 AM
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Crabcakes might make baseball games tolerable, even.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:41 AM
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UofP women's soccer would be the only game in town.

That, the Beavers and Reed rugby. For real excitement, people could drive down to Corvallis for OSU baseball. Any of those would be preferable to the Blazers.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:43 AM
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When these things come up, no one ever mourns how the lovely people of Frankford had their only professional sports team stolen from them by those braggarts in Philadelphia.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:52 AM
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Reed rugby: allow me to snort.

Actually, I think the Reed women beat Stanford awhile back.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:54 AM
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I was mostly being facetious, but Reed has fielded much better teams than you would think could be assembled from a small population of geeks and hippies. At least one of the women I knew there went on to play for the national team.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:07 AM
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Kobe and the Lakers will move to Portland.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:15 AM
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Reed also had a disproportionately high profile in squash, thanks largely to a handful of Pakistani students and a longtime PE director who had been a nationally ranked player.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:15 AM
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Scrivens, right?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:18 AM
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Yep. I think he started around the time you were there.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:21 AM
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Becks claims that "sports (especially baseball)" don't have any intrinsic value, and the only direct rebuttal in 100+ comments is a half-hearted reply from Tweety about liking "the rhythms [of baseball] and so on?" Let me be the first to say . . .

You're supposed to like it for the baseball?

Yes. In fact, the most annoying type of sports fan is the person with an emotional connection to a team but without any real understanding of what's going on in the game (or maybe second most annoying behind Mr. Intense Sports Fan who gets animated after every play to make sure you know that he is The Ultimate Fan). Baseball is much more complicated than people think, which is why it is the only sport that I would much rather see live than on television (television doesn't really show you everything that is going on).

To the tired claim that baseball players aren't athletes, I give the equally tired response that the hardest thing to do in sports is hit a 98 mph fastball (which isn't true but there is a point in there somewhere). There is also other evidence of athletic talent (please excuse the soundtrack).


Posted by: Grumps | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:26 AM
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the hardest thing to do in sports is hit a 98 mph fastball

I would think hitting a breaking ball would be harder.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:28 AM
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Baseball is much more complicated than people think

So's global thermonuclear war. Doesn't mean I want to see it.

I give the equally tired response that the hardest thing to do in sports is hit a 98 mph fastball (which isn't true but there is a point in there somewhere).

Be harder with snipers. Just a suggestion.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:32 AM
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Grumps gets it right.

105: Or pitching, hitting or catching a knuckleball. Willie Stargell said, "Throwing a knuckleball for a strike is like throwing a butterfly with hiccups across the street into your neighbor's mailbox."


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:36 AM
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Actually, I'd say that batting is probably the most predictable part about baseball. Unlike other team sports, most of the time that your team is working as a team, it's not with a plan, butvin response to this incredibly fast, tiny, hard ball that could go just about anywhere, and you never really know if you've got it, or your teammate's got it, or if it's foul or out of the park. Fielding in baseball can be wickedly hard.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:38 AM
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Baseball is much more complicated than people think

That still doesn't make it very complex.

I enjoy the dual between the pitcher and the batter, just like I enjoy a high stakes game of rock, paper, scissors.

One is always anticipating what the other is going to do.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:45 AM
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I will add that the complexity of most sports is underappreciated.

Like Ogged's seduction strategies, many sports involve subtle moves designed to position for later scoring (domination, etc.)


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:49 AM
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the hardest thing to do in sports is hit a 98 mph fastball

I think being able to throw a 98 mph fastball and have it hit the strike zone is even more difficult...


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:50 AM
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I've heard that hitting a 99 mph pitch is even harder.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:53 AM
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Also apparently hard: the lower-seeded team winning an NBA playoff round.

Still drooling over your AWESOMEST PLAYOFFS EVAR, Tim?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:57 AM
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Holy shit, Sowing discord has become reactivated.

Post something, front pagers!


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:58 AM
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I was really angry with Avery Johnson's response to losing to New Orleans in an ugly five-game series. We've been through worse, he said. It didn't seem clear whether he was saying that the team had been through worse playoff disappointments or worse inexplicable personnel changes. And why the hell was he so sanguine about it? He's no Buddhist legacy coach. He's been given the tools to go all the way but the Mavs can't get it done.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 9:01 AM
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And Larry Brown just got hired to coach his 9th different NBA team.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 9:03 AM
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Still drooling over your AWESOMEST PLAYOFFS EVAR, Tim?

I may change my mind if the Hawks pull the upset. It's still way too early to think about, but I would pay cash money to see the Boston dynasties go 0-for-2008.


Posted by: Gabriel | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 9:07 AM
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Actually, I'd say that batting is probably the most predictable part about baseball.

For Ted Williams, yes. For those of us who just shut our eyes and swung, less so.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 9:11 AM
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Eyes on the ball, Flip!

My own personal softball season starts soon and I tremble with anticipation. The past two summers, I batted well, but did half well and half miserably in the outfield, apparently having unreliable depth perception. Then, somehow, I got a chance to try out second base. I am brilliant at second base. I get in a sort of mindset where I can react really quickly to grab line drives and fast grounders, and it makes me feel all sporty and cool.

Then we decided to play around with some guys on the baseball field one week and I realized I hadn't played hardball since I was eight. It's a damn rough game.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 9:17 AM
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And Larry Brown just got hired to coach his 9th different NBA team.

Being Larry Brown is a recession-proof industry.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 9:22 AM
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Boston dynasties go 0-for-2008

I'm not 100% convinced that the Rays are for real. But, as you say, it's early.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 9:23 AM
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118: What is more predictable than that Charlie Brown will strike out?


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 9:27 AM
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122: That Joe Shlabotnik will.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 9:32 AM
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Still drooling over your AWESOMEST PLAYOFFS EVAR, Tim?

Totally. New blood (the Hornets), two excellent games in the Suns-Spurs series, Atlanta (Atlanta!) tying the series with Boston, Houston's comeback with Alston (Alston!) at the helm, a Cavs-Wizard series that has been fun, Kidd getting pantsed, an expectation that the Spurs could lose at any minute...what's not to love?


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 9:35 AM
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And Larry Brown just got hired to coach his 9th different NBA team.

It seems like a pretty good decision, but I fear for the UNC/Dean Smith cult come the inevitable blowup between Brown and Jordan.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 9:39 AM
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I fear for the UNC/Dean Smith cult come the inevitable blowup between Brown and Jordan.

You underestimate their resilience. They had little trouble forgiving Roy Williams for spurning them in 2000, and no trouble forgiving him for stabbing his former assistant in the back in 2003.


Posted by: Gabriel | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 9:41 AM
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Atlanta (Atlanta!) tying the series with Boston

If the Celtics lose tonight I am going on a killing spree.

Spurs through to the conference finals, Tim?

I think Gramps has described the taxonomy of irritating fans well. The strong attachment + no knowledge + bandwagon fan + obnoxious to other teams subvariant is most irritating of all. (why, yes, I do live in New England, why do you ask).


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 9:42 AM
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127 = Me. As was probably obvious


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 9:43 AM
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During one of our contract campaigns at V/e/r/i/z/o/n, our members in Boston handed out stickers at a Red Sox game that said, "The Yankees Suck and So Does V/e/r/i/z/o/n." People snatched them up like they were free beer.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 9:43 AM
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If the Celtics lose tonight I am going on a killing spree.

If you don't start early, you'll be hampered by the long lines. How great is it that the league thinks Pierce flashed a gang sign? (And maybe he did. But after the Wizards' fiasco with Stevenson's "can't feel my face" thing, I don't trust management much on this.)

Spurs through to the conference finals, Tim?

Boy, I don't know. Paul is quick enough to handle Parker. I'd want to know more about the Hornets' interior defense, but Chandler is long, strong, and quick. I don't know what the Hornets do about Manu, though.

For some reason, I expect the Spurs to lose. But, then, for some reason, I always expect the Spurs to lose.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 10:03 AM
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71

"... The fans don't follow the franchise in its new city, because like Wimbledon, the franchise was a traitor to its geographical area. ..."

Not entirely true. Some fans do continue to follow the team (just as some fans continue to follow a team after the fan moves away) but it is harder to do remotely so there is attrition over time. The Raiders which moved and returned are an interesting case. And teams moving around doesn't bother me any.


Posted by: James B. Shearer | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 10:04 AM
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And teams moving around doesn't bother me any.

It only bothers me when it results in wildly inappropriate names like the Utah Jazz or the two seasons we had the Tennessee Oilers.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 10:12 AM
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I'm going to be superexcited if Shearer outs himself as a member of Howling Crazy Raiders Nation. Also if Stras comes clean on his secret love for Hack-a-Shaq and Ogged admits that swimming is boring.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 10:12 AM
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132: Or the Oklahoma City SuperSonics, or the Seattle Trail Blazers...


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 10:17 AM
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134 - If they just shorten their name to the Sonics, they'll be a tribute to one of the major contributions Oklahoma City has made to American culture.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 10:19 AM
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This is happening with the Seattle NBA team as we speak.

Oddly seeing this mentioned casually on unfogged is more painful than following the ups and downs of the legal struggles on a weekly basis.

I am still hopeful that the NBA will remain in Seattle, but it doesn't look likely (and, Jesus, if it matters, I don't think there's any way the TrailBlazers move to Seattle).

This has been a painful year to be a Seattle NBA fan.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 10:41 AM
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132: e.g. the LA Lakers?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 10:41 AM
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for some reason, I always expect the Spurs to lose.

Me too. But I can hear Popovich giving Agent Smith's from the Matrix "that is the sound of inevitability" speech.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 10:45 AM
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College football has more loyalties than professional sports. It used to be true also of ML baseball, but expansion has lessened that to some extent.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 10:46 AM
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Oh yes, the Yankees suck. Bucky fucking Dent. (My dad grew up in Milton, Mass. Red Sox fans from the beginning. My son went as Manny Ramirez for Halloween, with a rasta wig but no blackface. he has no idea what he is in for).


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 11:04 AM
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But the Colts were just delayed retribution for stealing the Orioles from St. Louis. (The Browns, not that St. Louis mourned that one.)

No, I'm pretty sure that the retribution that Baltimore must suffer for stealing the Orioles is... having the Orioles as their baseball team.


Posted by: NBarnes | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 12:09 PM
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No, I'm pretty sure that the retribution that Baltimore must suffer for stealing the Orioles is... having the Orioles as their baseball team.

I think the Orioles moving to Baltimore was delayed retribution for the Braves leaving Boston, since so many Red Sox fans wouldn't be able to see them play otherwise.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 12:12 PM
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141, 142 : Because if they were the Browns, they wouldn't have traveled to Boston? I'm lost here.

And dinosaur that I am (plus Indians "fan" via original tribal geographic considerations), the Orioles' teams of the 60s and 70s provided Baltimore at least a half century's worth of baseball goodness, so no whining about the current state of the Orioles allowed, punks.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 12:42 PM
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Several items (thread dies while I am forced to pay attention to motherfucking work ... total fucking bullshit).

1) Given the characteristics of pro sports in the US that Goneril mentions anyone who gets all into the regional/hometown loyalty thing is an annoying sap. A regret of my not becoming a multi-billionaire is that I don't get to buy the Celtics, Red Sox and Patriots and move them. (Celtics to Colorado Springs and keep the name, Red Sox to either Spartansburg/Greenville or Nashville (the "Pickers"), and the Patriots to Boise or Spokane and call them the "Real Patriots".)

2) The controlled monopoly non-relegation style league, with neatly encapsulated regular season that only really matters for the winner-totally-rules playoffs aspect of US pro sports (and college) is the suxxor as well.

3) And if you tried anything else you would probably hear howls of outrage from the stats-besotted lunatic scum of the sporting world, fantasy league players. (Are there really fantasy soccer leagues now?)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:00 PM
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1) Given the characteristics of pro sports in the US that Goneril mentions anyone who gets all into the regional/hometown loyalty thing is an annoying sap.

This doesn't really make any sense. Anybody who gets into the regional/hometown loyalty thing has a team there that they grew up rooting for, maybe?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:06 PM
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143: because the combination of the Red Sox's popularity and the Orioles general badness means the cheapest and easiest way for a lot of New Englanders to see the Red Sox play is to travel to Baltimore.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:07 PM
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anyone who gets all into the regional/hometown loyalty thing is an annoying sap.

You're a sap if your town buys them a huge new stadium, sure. But generally,* people who root against their hometown teams are not to be trusted.

*Dallas Cowboy exception, etc.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:15 PM
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145: So a) I'm 80% trolling, but b) the 20% point being that you are attaching yourself to an institution that is only contingently tied to your region/city. Look at all of the shifting of franchises early in the formation of the big US sports leagues, most were created to fill arenas and stadiums, sport was secondary. Baseball had this relatively stable "classic" period (16 teams in 10 cities in the northeastern 1/8 of the country) for about 35 years that obscured the reality. (All the literary boo-hooing associated with the predictable NY team moves in the '50s always annoyed the piss out of me.*)

*me=anti-semite


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:18 PM
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147. Au contraire, mon frere. Growing up in suburban NJ meant that everyone else was a Yankees fan. My Yaz worship was beautiful in its silent martyrdom. There was no way in hell I was ever going to be a Yankees fan, although I did flirt with Tom Terrific and the Miracle Mets.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:23 PM
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148: it's perfectly possible to understand that pro sports teams are a commercial enterprise designed to make money for the owners and still root for them. Whatever their reasons for playing in your hometown, that is where they play, and if you have fond experience of that town and (some subset of) the people in it, then feeling a sense of belonging or nostalgia or whatever in cheering for that team doesn't actually mean you've swallowed whatever kool-aid it would be that would lead you to honestly believe you were actually rooting for sons and brothers defending you from the rapine instincts of swarthy foreigners. It's a low-maintenance, low-investment feeling of belonging, and as such is a pleasantly rooted diversion. Are you really so rootlessly cosmopolitan that you find that insufferably sappy?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:24 PM
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A few of my other "favorite" lesser-known team moves:
Cleveland Rams->LA (very nice that it was Browns over Rams in very exciting championship game their 1st year in the league (came over from AAFC with 49ers& Colts))
Dallas Texans -> KC Chiefs
Some of the original NBA cities - Ft.Wayne -> Detroit, Tri-Cities -> St. L, Syracuse -> Philly, Rochester -> Cincinnati.
Decatur Staleys -> Chicago Bears.
Chicago Cardinals -> StL (football)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:31 PM
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If you really care about your team moving away, stick to college ball. A college fan's biggest danger would be that they drop the sport.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:39 PM
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Becks--Speak for yourself, auslander.

I grew up in Washington. My father was in the liquor business and we went to the season's opener every year. I remember Griffith Stadium and Frank Howard and many lesser lights. I spent 31 years waiting for it all to return.

The Messiah may be a sub-.500 team, but who cares what you goyim think? It's my team, if not yours.


Posted by: Joe S. | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:40 PM
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Still drooling over your AWESOMEST PLAYOFFS EVAR, Tim?

The Hawks and the emergence of Chris Paul outweigh the disappointing fizzle of Spurs/Suns. Out with the old, in with the new! Although one can't claim that unless the Spurs, 90s zombies that they are, finally go down.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:41 PM
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150: Are you really so rootlessly cosmopolitan that you find that insufferably sappy?

Actually, I think that I am just bitter from one too many episodes of PTSLD (Post-traumatic Sports Loss Disorder).

More seriously, I clearly have a love-hate relationship with this stuff, I just get a bit tired of the Steelermanias et al, and the escalating spiral of consumero-normative aspects of Pro Sports. But never-no-mind, better now, I'm going to Disneyland! ...and Gene Conley was the man!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:41 PM
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152: you know, I feel better about people devoting so much blood and sweat to my entertainment if they get paid for the privilege.

155: Actually, I think that I am just bitter from one too many episodes of PTSLD (Post-traumatic Sports Loss Disorder).

This was, in fact, the thrust of my original, much more mean-spirited comment.

I do agree that it can get a little bit out of control, and growing up in Boston I found it all fairly irritating, but once I moved away it became a pleasantly comforting way to maintain a sense of place, and you know, all the history, etc.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:47 PM
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All the literary boo-hooing associated with the predictable NY team moves in the '50s always annoyed the piss out of me.*

Meh, literary, schmiterary, I'm sympathetic. My dad grew up in Flatbush and was 14 at the time of Walter O'Malley's great crime.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:48 PM
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Oops. 14 s/b 24 in 157. Old enough to feel the magnitude of the betrayal.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:51 PM
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The thing is, certain sports (not so much baseball) are just fun to watch for the grace, teamwork, etc. But weirdly, you need a rooting interest to make it engaging. I wonder why that is? Designating teams by hometown is just an arbitrary connection that allows you to do that.

Maybe it would be better to identify teams with lifestyle groupings or political beliefs. And the Libertarians or the Green Party could actually win something.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:51 PM
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Maybe it would be better to identify teams with lifestyle groupings or political beliefs.

In Scotland we've tried that. Take it from me, it's not a wise road to go down.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:53 PM
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(not so much baseball)

I don't care which teams are playing, a bench-clearing brawl is just plain fun.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:57 PM
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"Maybe it would be better to identify teams with lifestyle groupings or political beliefs"

I'm afraid I do this anyway, based in reality or not. My conception of the Yankees as the evil empire team took a hit when they booed Cheney during God Bless America, though.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:57 PM
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But weirdly, you need a rooting interest to make it engaging.

I'm not sure. People often arbitrarily pick teams. I have US-born friends who have an English team. I suppose I have one, too, and I'm not from here, and support a team not from the city I currently live in.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:57 PM
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156: much more mean-spirited comment.

Could it have been more mean-spirited than my fantasy about punishing New England sports fans? Don't hold back in the future, it shows a lack of respect.

but once I moved away it became a pleasantly comforting way to maintain a sense of place, and you know, all the history, etc.

Yeah, once again this is all about my own personal ambivalence, Boston/you were just such a tempting target. For instance it is much easier to root for Ohio State football when you're not actually in Ohio being confronted by the asshole other fans on a daily basis. One interesting observation is that as I have moved around the country my acceptance/rejection of the local sports teams has been quite variable, here in P'burgh I'm down with all the teams except the Steelers.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:58 PM
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161: shit, watching a batter work the count is fun. Baseball: fun to watch, no matter what they tell you.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 3:59 PM
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163: Indeed. Like Liverpool. Fucking, fucking, fuckety-fuck (retroactively applied to last week).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:01 PM
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163: Indeed. Like Liverpool. Fucking, fucking, fuckety-fuck (retroactively applied to last week).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:01 PM
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Feel better now, Katherine?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:02 PM
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Au contraire, mon frere. Growing up in suburban NJ meant that everyone else was a Yankees fan.

Fair enough. It's a general rule with exceptions. The Cowboys, The Hated Yankees, and rooting for Lutz Long at the 1936 Olympics.

it would be better to identify teams with lifestyle groupings

That's why we have pro wrestling.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:07 PM
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the literary boo-hooing associated with the predictable NY team moves in the '50s always annoyed the piss out of me.

I have a certain sympathy for that position. New York fans are the most consistently overpraised fans on the planet, and, in the same fashion, every team that succeeds in NYC (and some that fail) becomes, immediately, mythic. Very irritating. I really shouldn't have to hear one more sports writer/pundit refer to the Knicks as a "flagship NBA team."


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:08 PM
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A bunch of things at Yankee Stadium annoy, but certainly the God Bless America at every 7th inning stretch is in the top 5, though Cotton-Eyed Joe during the 7th inning stretch is also miserable, and I can't stand YMCA either.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:10 PM
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168: argh it irritates me so much when they play that song at games. I'm damn well not standing up during it, I'll tell you that much.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:10 PM
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Sweet Caroline, on the other hand, is terrific fun.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:11 PM
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I suppose I have one, too, and I'm not from here, and support a team not from the city I currently live in.

I never would have figured *you* for a ManU fan, ttaM.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:13 PM
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I stand for "Take Me Out To The Ballpark." "God Bless Ameria," not so much.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:14 PM
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it irritates me so much when they play that song at games

Dare I ask about your flag lapel pin?


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:15 PM
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"Take Me Out To The Ballpark."

BallGAME, you communist.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:17 PM
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I'm not sure. People often arbitrarily pick teams.

Huh. You're right, but I sort of agree with baa on the untrustworthiness of people who don't root for the home team (though I would probably restrict it to childhood home team). Maybe it's that you've got to have a non-utilitarian reason for liking a team, and a little loyalty.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:18 PM
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177: You beat me to it, I was trying to tie it into a People's Republic of Berkeley joke.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:20 PM
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176: worn upside down... ON MY BUTT LAPEL!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:20 PM
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Now that, it would be OK for Stephanopolous to ask about.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:23 PM
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I was reading some 2004-era posts by Yglesias because last night by room mate mentioned not understand why people on blogs hate Tom Friedman so much, so I figured if I went back a while, especially to when a lot of the big liberal hawk battles happened, I could help illustrate how this hate developed. Anyway, this is all lead up to my point that a lot of posts from that time period were a) very good and b) seem quite different than a lot of what's being posted these days. I'm thinking in particular of an exchange with DeLong over the meaning of the rent/buy ratio for housing and a discussion of lyrics by the Killers.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:27 PM
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But generally,* people who root against their hometown teams are not to be trusted.

I've long been intrigued by the broad vein of support in DC for the Dallas Cowboys among blacks in the D.C. area. I'm not sure if that tradition originated as a response to the historic (and long discontinued) racism of the local franchise, but it wouldn't surprise me.


Posted by: Gabriel | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:38 PM
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re: 174

Hah, I'm not. Although I don't share the hatred lots of other people feel for them.

My actual home town team -- village where I grew up, etc. -- is deep in the Scottish third division.* So, I have my Scottish premier league team -- chosen largely because the fans of the 'other team' aka the forces of Hunnic darkness used to irritate the fuck out of me when I lived next to the stadium -- and an English premier league team.

* i.e. deeply rubbish


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:44 PM
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the team's mascot is "Willie the Warrior", a Fudge-like figure with round balls and horned helmet.

Well, that certainly sounds intriguing.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:54 PM
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re: 185

I presume the fudge thing is because one of the two main industries in the village was a toffee/caramel/fudge factory. The football ground adjoins the factory. The other main industry was a huge victorian asylum. Both are now defunct.*

Now it's all hi-tech research parks and 'silicon glen' style companies on the edge of the village.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 4:59 PM
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Hunnic darkness that's going to win 4 trophies this year!

(Or possibly crash and burn under the weight of fixtures and injuries/suspensions etc. and not win anything.)


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:11 PM
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Oudemia, suppress your embarrassing kink!


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:12 PM
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Maybe it would be better to identify teams with lifestyle groupings or political beliefs/i>

Are you Blue or Green?


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:13 PM
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re: 187

Yeah. Or somewhere in between. There are several games in hand. So maybe on the last day of the season they'll win it [and then the bat-winged monkeys will rise up out Castle Greyskull and up Paisley Road West ... ]


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:17 PM
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a Fudge-like figure with round balls and horned helmet.

The Stenhousemuir Melenas?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:18 PM
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One can but hope.


Posted by: Keir | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:19 PM
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the historic (and long discontinued) racism of the local franchise

Yeah, what is that franchise called, again?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:21 PM
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re: 192

Or not, as the case may be!


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:21 PM
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If you had twins, one could be Melena and the other Meconium.

-- Hey! You do have twins!

Come on Jesus! Help us, Jesus! We need you, Jesus!

Name changes are ~ $100 per. I'm sure you could get Unfogged to pay.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:22 PM
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Wait! I must know who the forces of Hunnic darkness are! Who's at the top of the league? Celtic?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:23 PM
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re: 196

Yes, but the forces of hunnic darkness are the other ones. Rangers.

There's a lot of banter and insults flung about* alluding to, on the one hand, Celtic's irish/catholic links and Ranger's protestant/germanic/actual_sulphurous_reek_from_satan's_own_arse links.

* good natured between friends or genuinely nasty/bigoted depending on context ...


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:29 PM
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Well, Celtic has 5 points on them it seems, so fie on the Hunnic darkness.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:39 PM
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195: Every man has his price, John, but that's not mine.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:41 PM
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||

Totally off-topic:

I have taken only about three months to become incredibly annoyed by this new TNR foreigners writer, Alvaro Vargas Llosa.

You should be able to expect what TNR will write about the recent Paraguayan election. Basically "We can't blame ignorant people for voting for politicians who seem to understand their problems instead of politicians who have spent over a half-century demonstrating that they do not care about the people's problems. However, we can all hope that this new president is lying about everything he claims to want to do."

But this article is even more annoying than usual toward the end, in the paragraph about how sure, left-wing parties as well as right-wing parties can lead to bad results, but in general, the way you identify which party will screw up the country is by looking for the party that seems more populist.
|>


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:41 PM
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So how much do we have to sweeten the pot?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:47 PM
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re: 198

Yeah, but Rangers have 3 games in hand. They've played 32 games so far to Celtic's 35. If they win them, and the Scottish league being what it is, it's quite likely they will, then they'd be four points ahead. There's also an Old Firm game [rangers v celtic] which could widen the points gap. On the other hand, if Celtic win the Old Firm match, then they (Rangers) would have a mountain to climb.

Now, isn't this, the Manichean struggle between the forces of light and darkness more interesting than baseball?


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:49 PM
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John Emerson, you could also give a thought to paying him to give them names that sound hilariously stupid when combined wtih his last name.


Posted by: Fatman | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:49 PM
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I don't think I'm betraying an-off blog confidence to say that these two names would go swimmingly with Jesus' actual name. Alliteration and everything.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:52 PM
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They would, wouldn't they? But you'd have to pay a lot for my not telling my wife what "Melena" means.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 5:57 PM
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202: Well, the Cubs/Cards series is this weekend, and I think of them in similar terms. But there's no religious angle, which could certainly spice things up.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:05 PM
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re: 206

Everybody always says that their local derby or great rivalry with some other team is similar. (Respectfully) everyone* is mostly wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_football_rivalries#Celtic_vs_Rangers

* unless you're a Flamengo fan or Boca Juniors fan, maybe. Or some crazy Eastern European.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:26 PM
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There is no Dallas Cowboys Exception for people who saw Don Meredith play. I don't apologize, either, for rooting for the hometown baseball team of my poor departed grandmother.

Passion about a professional sports team may be lame -- I've had less explicable passions -- but it does not come remotely close, in lameness, to judging people for liking one team or another. Do you go up to random couples in the airport, and ask the woman "Geez, what do you see in him, anyway?"


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:34 PM
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I don't think Oudemia was saying the rivalry is of similar intensity.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:35 PM
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What I liked about English Football league play was that teams would move up or down in division. It could work in professional baseball, but the farm system would have to be radically changed.


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:42 PM
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210, see 19 et seq.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:43 PM
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re: 209

Yeah, I get that. I wasn't being disparaging, I hope.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:44 PM
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Napi--I sent you a couple fo e-mails.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:45 PM
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207: Oh w/d's 209 is right. I was saying that it certainly isn't and joking about the upcoming Cubs/Cards games.

In fact, I am thinking of taking up Celtic as a new way of bugging the shit out of my in-law equivalents, but I can't decide if they would (a) be annoyed or (b) say "of course you are you little papist."

In additional Scottish news, I just bought tix to the Nat'l Theatre of Scotland performing Euripides' Bacchae at Lincoln Center with Alan Cumming at Dionysos. Is that perfect casting or what?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:47 PM
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213: If he's not otherwise occupied and knows what's good for him, Nápi should be watching another excellent pitchers' duel unfolding right now at Fenway.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:51 PM
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215: yup, good stuff.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:55 PM
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re: 214

That production had mostly stellar reviews, if I recall. I saw a bit of it on TV when it was first produced at the festival. It looked pretty good/interesting to me.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:55 PM
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205: Name your price, Jesus. Unfogged is good for it.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:58 PM
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Jesus, I watched the first couple innings, but had to go to the airport. And MLB.com is blacking out the game -- I guess they can tell I'm at Logan. The TVs have basketball. I don't begrudge them (but can't say I took the same position last night when the North Side bar switch to the NBA in the 8th inning).

BG, received and responded.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 6:59 PM
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219: Bastards. Ortiz just homered to put the first run on the board.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:03 PM
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From a practical standpoint, I'm a lot more annoyed at United Airlines, because I'm still at Logan, and will be for half an hour at least. I ought to be in the air by now.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:07 PM
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Well, the Cubs are up 7-1 in the 3d.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:18 PM
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And Mark Cuban is at the game telling all and sundry how much he would like to buy the Cubs. How ought I to feel about this?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:27 PM
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The Cubs' ownership seems all right, though it is part of the holdings of the extremely heavily leveraged yet plutocratic Sam Zell.

Mark Cuban would be a great owner for any team but I don't see how he would improve the Cubs. What he needs to do is buy his hometown Pirates.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:33 PM
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The Orioles are playing like the Orioles tonight. Gave up 5 runs in an inning to the Tampa Bays. That ain't right.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:35 PM
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223: he's wanted to for a while; I don't think he even has the high bid.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:37 PM
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224: No, no. Zell has made it clear that they are on the block -- not officially yet, but he ain't keeping them. Hmm . . . so perhaps I should be happy that he rocking his Cubs jacket tonight.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:37 PM
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Adding, that Tampa Bay winning tonight is exceedingly bad news. It means that the Devil Rays will have had the first winning month in team history. Which I'm pretty sure means that the universe is about to explode.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:37 PM
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Correction, the Devil Rays never had a winning month in all their 10-year history.

however, the Rays are 1 for 1.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:41 PM
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They will always be the Devil Rays. Just like the California Angels will always be the California Angels.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:44 PM
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Isn't Zell selling essentially all Tribune company assets?


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:46 PM
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the California Angels will always be the California Angels.

but they started out as the Los Angeles Angels!

(BTW, I still cannot believe that the San Francisco Giants were serious about moving to Tampa, of all places, in their extortion demand. That would have been a bad move no matter how many free substandard stadia they got out of it.)


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:48 PM
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231: Yes. But there aren't actual bidding documents yet, etc.

I enjoy 12-1.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:49 PM
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Well even if the Jays do manage the win, the Yankees can't gain any ground tonight. I'll commence grumbling about the Yankees inability to score runs, and I expect plenty of sympathy.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:53 PM
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They were the Los Angeles Angels when they were in Los Angeles. Thats fine. They moved to Anaheim and became the California Angels. Thats also fine. What is not fine is being the "Los Angels Angels of Anaheim". I veto that name.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:53 PM
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yeah, "The Angels" is fine, and "Los Angeles" is fine, but "Los Angels" is just silly.


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:54 PM
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Los Angels de la California would be fine.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:59 PM
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234: I am somewhat sympathetic! I grew up a crazy Yankee fan. Living in Chicago for so long (and with a Chicagoan) turned me into a Cubs fan,* but I have the pictures of 10-year-old me with my arms around Joe DiMaggio to prove it. Hell, the Yankees figure in my father's obit, and I wrote it.

*It turned out, for me, to be more fun to root for the Cubs than the Yankees. I had a dual allegiance for a while, but when my Yankee fan brothers laughed hysterically at the Cubs 2003 loss, I decided that Yankee fans could actually suck.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 7:59 PM
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last night when the North Side bar switch to the NBA in the 8th inning

That's crazy! It's only the first round, and that game was a gem!

I was actually just reading a couple weeks ago - pretty sure it was King Kaufman - about how one of the great things about baseball is that any random midseason game can become one for the ages - a perfect game, or a well-played no-hitter - in a way that is not true for the NBA or NHL (in the NFL, almost every game has at least some significance, due to the short schedule). Unique basketball games tend to require a superstar (Heat-Hawks won't suddenly erupt into an 80 pt. performance for a journeyman), and hockey shutouts or 5-goal games aren't special the same way.

Probably the greatest baseball experience I ever had was the combined 10 inning no-hitter (before a sellout crowd on Jackie Robinson Day, no less) that the Pirates threw in 1997. Electric, from about the sixth inning on.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:05 PM
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when my Yankee fan brothers laughed hysterically at the Cubs 2003 loss

Damn that's harsh. A Red Sox fan would never do that, oudemia.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:06 PM
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Unique basketball games tend to require a superstar (Heat-Hawks won't suddenly erupt into an 80 pt. performance for a journeyman), and hockey shutouts or 5-goal games aren't special the same way.

There was that game this season where Linas Kleiza scored 41 points. But none of those point-scorings were inherently any more interesting than any other data points.

Every baseball game does contain at least some small thing that's unique. I was pretty excited to see Mike Gonzalez hit a double a couple years ago. And being at the game where Sammy Sosa's helmet got shattered by a pitch was memorable too. And then there was the game last year where 44-year-old pitcher Jamie Moyer hit an infield single.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:08 PM
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||

Two walkoffs in two nights! Oh hell yeah.

|>


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:09 PM
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Fuck yeah. Condolences, w/d.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:09 PM
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Oh, and I don't know why I didn't think to mention this when 159 came around, but:

Nationals games are fucked up, because one of the team hats is a red hat with a big script W on the front. Within the first month or so of the inaugural season, it totally became a partisan thing, with all of these cocky Republican assholes wearing the W hats.

It was strange viewing fandom through that lens - sure, you're wearing my team's colors, but are you really on my side?

More recent Nats game attendees: with GWB in the toilet, has this dynamic cooled? I must say that, were I to become a Nats fan (not possible), I don't think I would ever wear the W hat.

God, that asshole just ruins everything, doesn't he?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:09 PM
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they should be the Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim of Miami University of Ohio.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:10 PM
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239: I've never seen a no hitter. Thats pretty awesome. But I have seen the exact opposite. I was at the game last year when the Orioles lost 30-3.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:11 PM
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Maybe at A's games it used to be "ballpark"?

Damn. I love that song so so much, and I always fuck up the first line.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:12 PM
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I seem to see a lot of "urban" "disadvantaged" "youths" wearing the W hat. No earthly idea why. At least the Chicago White Sox hats of 10 years ago could be explained by sharing colors with the Oakland Raiders, or sharing colors with the Malcolm X t-shirts, or both.

What I like is seeing rappers in music videos wearing the jerseys of their hometown athletes. Best example here (a member of Bone Thugz-n-Harmony in a Mark Price jersey). Nelly does this a whole lot, everything from the St. Louis hockey team to Negro League throwbacks.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:13 PM
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And being at the game where Sammy Sosa's helmet got shattered by a pitch was memorable too.

Wish I'd been there. Solomon Torres was a cool kind of badass.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:13 PM
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And being at the game where Sammy Sosa's helmet got shattered by a pitch was memorable too.

Wish I'd been there. Solomon Torres was a cool kind of badass.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:13 PM
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244: Yeah, its a shame about the W hat because I actually like the style. But I got a "DC" hat instead. I don't really like how it looks as much, but I like not being an asshole.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:14 PM
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246: oh, geez. Sorry.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:14 PM
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The Los Angeles Angels of Miami of Indiana University Purdue University Indianapolis University of Pennsylvania.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:15 PM
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248: Maybe the W hat shares colors with the Bloods?


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:17 PM
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I was at the game last year when the Orioles lost 30-3.

Holy shit.

Didn't the coach have some great quote the next day? Damn, can't quite remember.

I seem to see a lot of "urban" "disadvantaged" "youths" wearing the W hat.

In our town? Haven't seen this at all, but maybe I don't go to those neighborhoods ("those" meaning, most likely, neighborhoods dominated by red gang colors - is it still the Bloods? I can never decipher the {possibly pseudo-]gang graffiti in my neighborhood parklet).


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:17 PM
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Man, Spike pwned me even as I was expressing sympathy. I know he didn;'t know that, but it still seems cold.

BTW, that no-hitter was won by a walk-off homer. Against the Astros, whom we were battling all season for the division. Amazing. Actually, without a doubt the greatest Pirates game of the last 15+ years.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:20 PM
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El Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Angeles de Porciúncula Angels of the home by the Santa Ana river*.

*Just learned via Wikipedia - Anaheim settled by Germans who originally named it Annaheim per the italicized portion above.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:20 PM
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No, right near the universities and medical centers.

Maybe I've seen four such hat-wearings. Maybe it was all the same couple of guy. But I detected a pattern, at least. Since wearing baseball caps with actual baseball teams' logos on them at all, instead of the Steelers logo, is very uncommon for "urban" "disadvantaged" "youths".

Now, the young black guys wearing the bright yellow-and-blue Brewers hat with the mb logo: THAT's definitely all the same guy. And an awesome guy, I must assume.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:21 PM
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How can a 30-3 game only take 3 hours and 21 minutes?


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:23 PM
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I saw Ozzie Guillen hit a grand slam once. (He hit a career 28 home runs.)


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:24 PM
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I've never even seen a complete game. I have seen two different pitchers pitch 8 2/3 innings for the win, give up a home run, and then be removed for a reliever.


Posted by: CN | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:25 PM
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It really is true that there's always something at a baseball game. For instance, last night was Chris Stewart's first and probably only appearance as a Yankee.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:27 PM
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256: Didn't mean to pwn you, I appreciate the sympathy. Fans of the Orioles and Nationals tend to need a lot of it.

Must have been kinda frustrating that the Pirates pitchers could go 10 innings of no-hit ball and not get any run support. But I guess they got it when it counted.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:30 PM
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Hmm, lessee... Gary Carter's 100th home run, Montreal. Can't recall anything else out of the ordinary.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:32 PM
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I saw Cal Ripken's 300th homer. It landed two sections away from where I was.

I also saw Mike Mussina strike out Daryl Strawberry 5 times in one game. That was before Mussina went over to the dark side and became a damned Yankee.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:37 PM
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I was at the Sox/Yankees game in 2004 with the fight that turned the season around.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:38 PM
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Old unfogged thread on great sporting moments we'd seen.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:39 PM
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My husband was at Game 6 of the 1986 World Series. He started whining how he was tired & wanted to go home & they were going to lose anyway when the Mets fell behind. Unfortunately this has made him pathologically unable to give up on sports teams & generally nuts about sports.

I've been to a fair # of baseball games but nothing especially exciting to report. Frank Viola handed me a baseball once when I was a kid.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:40 PM
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I saw the Giants clinch the NL west but didn't really care that much.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:42 PM
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259: It was a short game because there were very few pitching changes. Once it was obvious the game was going to be lost, the pitchers that were in were left to twist in the wind, because it was the top half of a double header and the bullpen was needed for the next game. I also believe the Texas reliever who pitched the final few innings got a save out of it.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:44 PM
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The same season as the no-hitter, I was a young Jon Lieber strike out Albert Belle 4 times when Belle's salary was bigger than the entire Pirates payroll.

Kris Benson throwing a CG shutout* as Jason Kendall hit for the cycle; the last hit was a triple, which, as George Foster said, is the most exciting play in baseball. The best part was, it wasn't really a triple - it was a standup double to RF, but Kendall knew he had a chance for the cycle, and by god, he got it.

I also saw Sosa and McGwire homer in That Season, but it's a less warm memory now.

Oh, and I see green reading about Katherine's husband. I was in Williamstown MA for that game, listening to the radio (out of Chicago, IIRC). I nearly died.

* Almost certain about that part; I know it was a CG


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 8:50 PM
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A kid I grew up with's Uncle saw Don Larsen pitch a perfect game in the World Series. He didn't go to many games after that, because, after you've seen a perfect game pitched in the World Series, no other baseball game you see can ever top that....


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 9:00 PM
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272: "Yeah, I dunno, OK game I guess. Kid gave up a big homer in the seventh - he's lucky Buckner got a double in the bottom of the inning and Evans drove him in. At least it was quick."

"What's that? Yeah, I guess he had some strikeouts. Why?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 9:07 PM
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I watched Nomo pitch the first no-hitter in Camden Yards. No one was rooting for the Orioles in the 8th or 9th innings.


Posted by: Nápi | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 10:27 PM
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I saw Barry Bonds hit his 500th home run. And his 600th. And break the single-season home run record. And no, I don't have season tickets to the Giants.

I also saw Tim Hudson beat the Red Sox on 93 pitches, giving up only 2 infield hits. Closest I've ever come to a no-hitter.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 04-30-08 10:52 PM
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272: My pop was at that game!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05- 1-08 3:52 AM
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