Re: Ask The Mineshaft: Howcome None Of You Asked This? Edition

1

Is there any indication of the gender of the questioner?


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:23 AM
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Would a guy with a boyfriend be asking if his boyfriend is gay, Peter?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:24 AM
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Dental dam!

max
['He had a problem: he was gay but he hated dicks.']


Posted by: max | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:24 AM
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2: it's possible, given the intelligence level of people who ask questions like this.

"what's wrong with giving me a BJ? why does he have these other ideas? perhaps it is his way of fulfilling his latent desires to commit cunnilingus. perhaps he isn't really gay at all!"


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:26 AM
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"I'm a germophobe, but my boyfriend wants me to do this video with another girl and a cup. Is that peanut butter?"


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:27 AM
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How come none of you asked this?

Elmo embawwassed.


Posted by: Elmo | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:31 AM
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Dear Hygienocide,

1. Don't do it if you don't want to.

2. There is no way for me to tell from this one piece of information if your boyfriend is gay.

Sincerely,
Obvious answer giver


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:35 AM
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Sincerely,

Apparently!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:36 AM
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max beat me to it in 3. I think you have to go to a sex shop to get them or make them out of a condom, because I've never seen them hanging up next to the condoms in the drugstore.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:36 AM
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Tongue condom!


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:37 AM
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9: and it's easy!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:37 AM
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There is no way for me to tell from this one piece of information if your boyfriend is gay.

What are you trying to do, put all advice columnists out of business?


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:39 AM
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13

The suggestion at the link, Listerine breath strips, is a lot better than dental dams.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:40 AM
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13: shit if you're going to do that why not live a little and start things off with a Pernod enema?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:41 AM
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I call it a Pernenema.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:43 AM
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What are you trying to do, put all advice columnists out of business?

Working on a backup career, in case this academia thing doesn't pan out.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:43 AM
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The suggestion at the link, Listerine breath strips, is a lot better than dental dams.

The strips would dissolve though. There's no protection against STDs. Maybe somebody should make non-dissolving breath-mint dental dams. I know that you can get flavored stuff, but I don't think that it's designed to freshen breath.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:58 AM
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BG I think you've found your new line of work!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:59 AM
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Also, a mentholated strip jammed up one's ass just may be a bit too invigorating.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:59 AM
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The Listerine Breath Strips suggestion was obviously sarcasm, as I assume was 13.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:00 PM
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19: boy howdy. Even sticking half a pack of Kools up there is pretty wild.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:01 PM
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19: That's why you also have the Pernod, to take the edge off.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:02 PM
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Howcome None Of You Asked This?

Not germophobes?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:02 PM
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Sincerely,
Obvious answer
rim job giver


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:06 PM
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At the Women's Resource Center where I volunteered in college, all our dental dams were black raspberry flavored. Disgusting.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:11 PM
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Just take a thorough shower right beforehand and don't worry about it. In an ongoing relationship where you both trust each other, etc.


Posted by: Yes, I give rim jobs | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:13 PM
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There's a song on one of those mid-90s Kill Rock Stars comps wherein the singer mentions whipping out a dental dam. But that was for hott grrrl-power bathroom stall action.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:14 PM
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Germophobes should probably not have sex with any of these insect things.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:28 PM
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Germophobes should probably not have sex with any of these insect things.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:30 PM
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30

The suggestion at the link, Listerine breath strips, is a lot better than dental dams.

Better yet: Saran Wrap.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:31 PM
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a mentholated strip jammed up one's ass just may be a bit too invigorating

Not if you're aiming for shocked delight.


Posted by: My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:32 PM
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(2) Yes, he's gay, and (1) only by licking his ass for him will you satiate his latent desires and SAVE HIS SOUL.


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:34 PM
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33

For that locked in freshness.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:35 PM
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34

Also, a mentholated strip jammed up one's ass just may be a bit too invigorating.

Tastes vary, I suppose, but it sure would be extremely invigorating indeed.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:35 PM
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30: You have to know what kind of saran wrap it is. Some of them are porous.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:37 PM
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Dear Self:

Do you suppose you have the highest per-comment use of the word "indeed" of any Unfogged commenter? How about the highest per-comma use of exclamation points? Do you think this says anything about you as a person?

Signed,
Me

Dear Me:

Alas, yes.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:37 PM
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From what I gather in off-topic threads on sports-related message boards, porn has made licking butt / "A2M" culturally accepted behavior for heterosexual males. Requests for penetration still a culturally deprecated "sign."


Posted by: Moby Ape | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:37 PM
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38

31: Hey, My Alter Ego, I was over at your website, because I wanted to watch that video of the guy who had artificially made his dick ginormous, but the video's been taken down. I wish that I could find it.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:38 PM
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39

I did not think "licking butt" and "A2M" were the same thing, at all. But I'm not well immersed in this subculture.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:40 PM
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Tastes vary, I suppose

From ass to ass, yes.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:41 PM
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41

I think Chris Rock began the mainstreaming of salad tossing.

(There was a deli somewhere downtown with a big banner outfront that read "We'll toss your salad!" My my!)


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:41 PM
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I think Chris Rock began the mainstreaming of salad tossing.

(There was a deli somewhere downtown with a big banner outfront that read "We'll toss your salad!" My my!)


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:41 PM
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43

I'm glad no explanation was given in 38, because the ideas spinning around in my head are hilarious.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:41 PM
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44

I am very committed to that comment apparently!


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:41 PM
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45

38: Who loves ya, baby?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:42 PM
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46

a mentholated strip jammed up one's ass just may be a bit too invigorating

Watch out for those mentholated inhalers, too. Studies show that excessive use of Vicks inhalers may result in bizarre behavior.


Posted by: Populuxe | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:44 PM
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47

link in 45 is not work-safe


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:44 PM
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48

In the voice in my head, I always hear rfts say "in-deeeeeD!"


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:45 PM
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49

link in 45 is not work-safe

No, definitely not.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:46 PM
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50

Did you think a video about "that guy who made his dick ginormous" might be?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:46 PM
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per-comma

Hm.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:46 PM
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45: Clearly apo has teh internet not just in his backpocket, but in ihis pants too.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:46 PM
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53

"that guy who made his dick ginormous"

Sometimes Ogged makes my dick ginormous.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:46 PM
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54

That's not the internet in my pants. I'm just happy to see you, BG.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:47 PM
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55

Apo to the rescue.


Posted by: My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:48 PM
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54: HA!


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:49 PM
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50: well, it could have been a joke. Maybe I should have grown skeptical when I had to click through a "warning: adult content" disclaimer to get to the video, but the video on the other side was definitely not work-safe.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:49 PM
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At the Women's Resource Center where I volunteered in college, all our dental dams were black raspberry flavored. Disgusting.

Better'n Hazelnut or Moose Tracks. Or Squirrel.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:54 PM
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59

Man, what's wrong with that guy's lips? That's just strange-looking.


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 12:59 PM
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60

Better'n Hazelnut or Moose Tracks.

Habañero.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:03 PM
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61

60: Savory Salmon Feast.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:06 PM
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62

Well, instead of saran wrap, use aluminum foil. That's not porous.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:10 PM
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63

Giblets 'n' gravy.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:10 PM
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64

Better yet: Saran Wrap.

The Fugs did a song about this.

BG, I replied to your email. Sorry I didn't see it for a while.


Posted by: OneFatEngishman | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:10 PM
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65

Three Cheese


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:11 PM
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66

Natto.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:12 PM
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67

Durian Swirl.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:13 PM
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68

Owl. Miracle Whip. Pastrami. Brunswick Stew. Liver 'n' Onions. Wet Dog.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:13 PM
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69

Wasabi.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:14 PM
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70

Natto.

Heh.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:14 PM
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71

Durian Fudge Swirl.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:15 PM
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72

Butt-flavored dental dams would probably sell poorly.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:15 PM
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73

Maguey Worm.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:16 PM
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74

This flavor.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:19 PM
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75

70:

It also smelled kinda like baked beans. If they were baked in the filthy heat of Satan's asshole.

Pretty accurate.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:21 PM
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At the Women's Resource Center where I volunteered in college, all our dental dams were black raspberry flavored.

"Believe me, I tried every last one of 'em."

Dear Me:

Alas, yesIndeed.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:22 PM
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Special Hall-o-ween dental dam flavors:

"The Mummy's Cooch"; "Ass of the Wolfman"; "Frankenstein's Smegma".


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:23 PM
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78

||
Paging Jesus McQueen. Jesus McQueen to the white e-mail message, please.
|>


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:26 PM
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79

75: And to bring this thread back full-circle: "The entire experience is difficult to describe, but if you can remember back to the very first time you made out with a hobo's ass, it's a lot like that."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:26 PM
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79: Also an excellent dental dam flavor.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:30 PM
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Hákarl.


Posted by: My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:31 PM
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78: Read and replied.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:32 PM
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83

Other selections from the Icelandic flavor palette.


Posted by: My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:34 PM
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84

Hard gay has me convinced that natto can be delicious. Among the many other things he's convinced me of.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlO0ibU-wqs


Posted by: Defoe | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:35 PM
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85

Natto seems leagues nicer than the Icelandic delicacies mentioned.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:37 PM
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79: Japanese people often test foreigners by asking, "Do you like natto?" The correct answer is "No, my inscrutable friend, and neither do you."


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:37 PM
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Alas, yes.

s/b yes, indeed!


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:38 PM
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88

Delicacies from Greenland.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:44 PM
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89

I was laughing at a lot of these flavors, but I think I like owl best.

For laughing at, not tasting I mean.

Geez, people.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:44 PM
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90

Hákarl.

What a coincidence!


Posted by: Ardent reader | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 1:47 PM
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91

a mentholated strip jammed up one's ass just may be a bit too invigorating

One of the dubious pleasures of having my FIL over for dinner is that he occasionally livens up the dinner table conversation with anecdotes about the bizarre objects that he, as a physician, has removed from people's asses. Also, the lame excuses they supply for how said objects ended up there ("You see, I was in the shower, and my ass was all soapy, and I fell, and the pager/cellphone/coke bottle/frozen burrito was on the floor, and it went right up my ass.")


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 2:18 PM
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92

"Ass of the Wolfman";

I misread as "Ass of the Wolfram"


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 2:25 PM
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93

92: A New Kind Of Anus.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 2:27 PM
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92: well, I'd originally misread it as "Ass of the w-lfs-n", which I thought was odd.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 2:28 PM
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95

Natto is called "chou doufu" un Chinese, which means "stinky tofu". It's sold on streetcorners, and you can smell the stands a block or more away. I never tried it, but a friend told me it wasn't bad at all.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 2:30 PM
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93: Actually, this dental dam, or any of sufficient complexity, contains all possible flavors.


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 2:34 PM
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96: it is impossible to devise a formula for licking through this dental dam which achieves orgasm in less time than orgasm would occur in the natural system the dam's presence is intended to model.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 2:38 PM
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98

Thanks, OFE. I read your reply. I should have responded.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 2:40 PM
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99

I think, instead of passing notes back and forth about e-mails sent and recieved, commenters should simply post the text of those e-mails here, with both of them run through a mutually-agreed-upon internet translation engine, to preserve privacy. So e.g.:

Ostonianbay Irlgay,

Iway asway onderingway ifway ou'dyay ecordedray osethay
episodesway ofway Dray. Ew'sdray Elebritycay Ehabray atthay Iway
asway issingmay onway ouryay IVOtay? Iway amway esperatelyday
eagerway otay indfay outway atwhay Iway issedmay, asway ouyay
ancay imagineway.

Oneway Atfay Englishmanway


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 2:44 PM
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100

Stinky tofu isn't the same thing as nattō, other than that they're both fermented soy products.


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 2:57 PM
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101

The Boston crowd really knows this issue backwards and forwards.


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 3:01 PM
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102

"Ass of the w-lfs-n", which I thought was odd

Oh, it's odd, alright.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 3:02 PM
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103

I expect it of Sifu, but who know BG was a bad girl??


Posted by: Will | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 3:03 PM
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104

Malaria-eradicating bats


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 3:15 PM
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105

We don't even know who BG is, you perv.


Posted by: Malaria-eradicating bats | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 3:16 PM
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106

Sometimes batshit ideas really do work.


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 3:18 PM
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107

Will's not a perv, Malaria dude.

Will: When I decided that I needed to find some stuff out, I got hooked into reading up on everything. Some of this knowledge is more academic/theoretical than practical.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 3:22 PM
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108

I'd originally misread it as "Ass of the w-lfs-n"

That's a pleonasm, right?


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 4:48 PM
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109

No, hendiadys.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 4:48 PM
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Batshit has cash value. If you had enough bats, it could be a significant source of income.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 5:22 PM
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111

I call it a Pernenema.

A man, a plan, a canal, Pernenema.


Posted by: Gonerill | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 5:25 PM
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112

No blood for oil, but blood for batshit?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guano_Islands_Act


Posted by: Tassled Loafered Leech | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 5:25 PM
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113

Being a swede, I have of course eaten surströmming.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 6:39 PM
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114

I would love surströmming but in this country we are deprived.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 6:41 PM
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115

The internets say that Hollywood imported surströmming while there was a Swedish colony there. Garbo, I suppose. That's why she wanted to be alone.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 6:46 PM
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116

I could send you a can, but I'm afraid your sister would kick you out if you're still living with her. At least the neighbors would complain.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 6:47 PM
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117

I'm not joking.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 6:48 PM
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118

An old post from my pal Stefan.
http://www.stefangeens.com/000066.html

"I'm always happy when surströmming articles happen. There is a new one in today's Wall Street Journal, though I am very disappointed with its complete failure to accurately convey the true horror that eating surströmming entails. Or watching someone eat it. Or being anywhere near an open can. People have been known to spontaneously projectile vomit at the sight of one of the bloated cans squirting out its disgusting brine and stench as it is opened."

I don't think Stefan managed to properly convey the horror of it either, though.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 6:56 PM
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119

It may not be legal in the mails.

Pickled herring and smoked whitefish are common snacks around here, and lutefisk is a ritual food, but surströmming is a step beyond.

My son will be travelling in Scandinavia this fall with an old-timey band. I'll see what he can do.

Here's their schedule, BTW. It's old-time country music. Caleb Klauder Country Band:

Aug 29 2008 5:00P Tonder Music Fesival
Aug 30 2008 5:00P Tonder Music Fesival
Aug 31 2008 2:00A Tonder Music Fesival
Sep 1 2008 2:00A Tonder Music Fesival
Sep 2 2008 8:00P Hanstedt Svendborg
Sep 3 2008 8:00P Bornholm
Sep 5 2008 9:00P Klubb Bakersfield Malmo
Sep 6 2008 8:00P Tisvilde Folk Festival Tisvidle
Sep 7 2008 8:00P Bruunskepakhus Frederica
Sep 8 2008 8:00P LO Skolen Helsingor

They went earlier and I forgot to tell you. Review and picture of cute Scandinavian ladies.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 6:59 PM
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120

Wow. I've never heard of surströmming, but now I really, really want to try some. It sounds intense.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 7:06 PM
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121

You're not allowed to bring it on airplanes.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 7:09 PM
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122

What Stefan didn't really convey is that the smell isn't just unbelievably foul but incredibly strong, at least when I had it.

I couldn't be near the table for too long, but even standing 10 meters away from it was enough to give me a headache and make me really dizzy with nausea.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 7:17 PM
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123

Perhaps I'll work out a way in the summertime and eat it outdoors near a cowbarn.

Is it Danish or learned from the Greenlanders?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 7:20 PM
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124

One of the link says it's Saamish / Lapish.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 7:22 PM
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122: Sounds like a real adventure. I love adventure.


Posted by: Brock Landers | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 7:27 PM
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126

According to my encyclopedia of culinary history, fermentation is a very old method of conservation that once was common all over Eurasia. It's only survived in Sweden and Iceland, but the Finns still used in Linnaeus time.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 7:42 PM
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127

I'm pretty sure Aleuts still do similar things.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 7:47 PM
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128

Well, almost.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermentation_%28food%29#Fish-based

Back in the old days, lots of other fish was conserved that way, and it was everyday food. The alternative was to use insane amounts of salt, and the meat often still bacame rancid, whereas surströmming doesn't taste bad at all in my opinion. I didn't think it tasted good either, mind you. Just sort of salty, but I was too distracted by the nausea to form any strong impression.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 7:51 PM
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129

Makes sense, it's the climate that makes good conservation imperative. Life in esp. northern Sweden was pretty crazily harsh back in the day.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 7:54 PM
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130

129 to 127.


Posted by: David Weman | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 7:55 PM
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Alaska, despite its small population, has witnessed a steady increase of cases of botulism since 1985.

Perhaps a problem cause by co-op editing. Logically a small population can experience increases just like a big one. I've seen this error twice recently.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 7:55 PM
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132

Two posts up is a link to an article called Race to the Bottom. Just sayin'.


Posted by: Colin | Link to this comment | 05- 7-08 11:21 PM
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According to my encyclopedia of culinary history, fermentation is a very old method of conservation that once was common all over Eurasia. It's only survived in Sweden and Iceland

And anywhere else where people produce yogurt, beer, pickles, wine, cheese or salami...


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 7:36 AM
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Pickles? Pickling is a very different process from fermentation. The combination of high acidity and salinity makes an environment inhospitable to bacteria--and also to the yeast that would be necessary for fermentation.

Also, salami is preserved by drying, with large quantities of fat supplying the residual moistness.

And beer is more perishable than the grain it is made from; the point of the fermentation process is to convert certain nutrients and (of course) to produce alcohol for enjoyment.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 7:46 AM
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I don't know about pickles, but ajay's right about salami; fermentation is part of the process.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 7:51 AM
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Pickles? Pickling is a very different process from fermentation. The combination of high acidity and salinity makes an environment inhospitable to bacteria--and also to the yeast that would be necessary for fermentation.

But Western Eurasian pickling usually requires beer or wine to make vinegar.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 7:55 AM
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Salami ferments? Ew.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 7:55 AM
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ajay's right about salami; fermentation is part of the process

I stand corrected. That's pretty cool, actually.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 7:59 AM
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Salami ferments.

Lactic acid is produced by the bacteria as a waste product, lowering the pH and coagulating and drying the meat. The acid produced by the bacteria makes the meat an inhospitable environment for other, dangerous bacteria and imparts the tangy flavor that separates salami from machine-dried pork. The flavor of a salami relies just as much on how this bacteria is cultivated as it does on quality and variety of other ingredients. Originally, the bacteria were introduced into the meat mixture with wine, which contains other types of beneficial bacteria; now, starter cultures are used.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 8:05 AM
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Pickles? Pickling is a very different process from fermentation.

Lots of pickles are fermented! The acid in those cases is a byproduct of the fermentation -- that is, they wind up pickled by lactic acid instead of acetic acid. Sauerkraut, several kinds of cucumber pickles, kimchee, etc.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 8:14 AM
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Romans ate fermented fish-gut sauce


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 8:23 AM
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141: Garum! (Basically nuoc mam, I think.)


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 8:26 AM
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... and I have visited the ruins of a Roman city (Empurias), where the remains of the factory where they left the fish guts to ferment in the open air lies smack in the middle of a densely residential area. Lovely.

Worcester sauce is only a variation on the theme.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 8:28 AM
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Worcestershire (not using the crazy english variant (don't even tell me that's correct)) sauce is awesome, not least because it makes the Bloody Mary the only cocktail with fermented fish in it.

Do asian fish sauces also have fermented fish in them?

Re: 137: the germophobe is outed!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 8:31 AM
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144. Yes. Some people recommend Nam Ploc as the nearest you can get to garum if you want to recreate Roman food and not fall out with your neighbours by making the stuff at home.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 8:34 AM
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Do asian fish sauces also have fermented fish in them?

Yes.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 8:35 AM
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OK, OK! I scoffed prematurely. I am guilty of tortious mispwnage. Do I owe ajay liquidated damages or anything?


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 8:39 AM
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Huh! And fish sauce is also delicious. I have, for a long time, wanted to make an asian bloody mary, with fish sauce, wasabi, and Sriracha. Now I have historical/anthropological justification!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 8:39 AM
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For the completist, the Romans also used a bye product of the garum making process called hallec, which can be approximated using trasi, if you must.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 8:42 AM
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Do I owe ajay liquidated damages or anything?

Yes, and I believe the standard calls for fermented rather than pickled liquids.


Posted by: Di Kotimy | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 8:57 AM
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Huh-- equivalent interest in roasted dormice, another Roman delicacy? Squirrel stew confessions, anyone?


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 8:59 AM
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The food related bits of the series Rome might have been my favorites.

OFE is emulating traditional roman cooking a big thing? Isn't it, like, disgusting?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:04 AM
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Reading wikipedia: no!

Unfogged Trojan Pig meetup!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:08 AM
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152: were there any? I remember my brother becoming obsessively foody after watching "Goodfellas" which has plenty of cooking scenes.

Can you make vinegar out of beer? I thought it was wine or cider only. Or malt, which I suppose is beerish.

147 - gracious in victory, I admit I was wrong and you were right about beer.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:08 AM
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I feel like I learned all this in high school Latin. Oh well.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:11 AM
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Roasted dormice really piss PK off and have convinced him that the ancient Romans were an evil people.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:14 AM
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154: they were sort of incidental, but there was a lot of eating and somewhat less talking about food and the occasional feast preparing. You didn't see many details, but it was still interesting.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:15 AM
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156: whatever it takes, I guess.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:15 AM
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148: I haven't done the wasabi or the Sriracha, but fish sauce Bloody Mary's are less exciting than you might think. It tasted kind of... I don't really know how to describe it, thin?


Posted by: Anarch | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:15 AM
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Hm so it needs some kind of thickening agent. Maybe a fish paste. Noted!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:18 AM
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Roasted dormice really piss PK off and have convinced him that the ancient Romans were an evil people.

Crucifying our Lord and Savior wasn't sufficient evidence?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:19 AM
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161: PK's an athiest who would no doubt agree that crucifying people was very mean indeed, but would add that mice are somewhat less able to defend themselves than your average adult man.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:24 AM
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I used to have roman food parties for my latin class at the end of term. we didn't eat dormice. more of the beet salad and such. but I did use nuoc mam.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:25 AM
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Or even your not-so-average adult man.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:25 AM
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160: I'd recommend tamarind, actually; isn't that the other major ingredient in Worcestershire?

...great, now I need to pick up some tomato juice and experiment myself.


Posted by: Anarch | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:26 AM
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165: ooh now that's sounding mighty tasty.

163: did you have Trojan Pig?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:27 AM
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There's a place here that makes a roasted tomato Bloody Mary. So delicious. I wish I had one right now.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:33 AM
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I always thought that Greek food sounded better.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:38 AM
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Flamingo tongue is really my favorite example of looney-tunes Roman cuisine decadence.
Everyone's homework now is to read the Dinner at Trimalchio's section of the Satyricon.
Extra credit: What classic American novel name-checked Trimalchio in its original (but never published) title?


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:39 AM
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168: Agreed.
169.3: Too easy.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:41 AM
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Beijing Fast Food


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:42 AM
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Squirrel stew confessions, anyone?

Here you go.

See also here.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:44 AM
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Crucifying our Lord and Savior wasn't sufficient evidence?

That was the Jews, apo. The Romans just did their dirty work for them. The Romans do have the early church martyrs to answer for, though.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:45 AM
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173: sure, they killed Jesus. Just don't repeat the foul mouse blood libel, or PK's even more likely to grow up an anti-semite.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:47 AM
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That was the Jews, apo.

Or so the Romans would have you believe.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:48 AM
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Maybe not so loony. Duck tongue is really good.

Is it known how the Satyricon got disseminated in Roman times? (orally+informally, orally+formally (that is, reciter chosen with care, listened to with reasonable attention), or in written copies?)


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:48 AM
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OFE is emulating traditional roman cooking a big thing? Isn't it, like, disgusting?

You have to pick what you're cooking. Some of it is, yes, quite uneatable. But you can put together a really nice meal if you're careful - more like modern Greek than modern Italian, though. And of course, the fish sauce, which they used instead of salt.


Posted by: OneFatEngishman | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:51 AM
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169. What classic American novel name-checked Trimalchio in its original (but never published) title?

At a wild guess, Gatsby?


Posted by: OneFatEngishman | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:52 AM
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Can you make vinegar out of beer?

Kinda sorta. Anything containing ethanol can be oxydized to make vinegar. But there are more efficient processes for turning grain to vinegar so the intermediate step of making beer is rarely employed.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:52 AM
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Malt vinegar is kinda sorta made from beer, isn't it?


Posted by: mano negra | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:56 AM
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Malt vinegar is kinda sorta made from beer, isn't it?

I think technically it's made from ale, but yes, malted grain is the raw material.



Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 9:59 AM
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171: I'm pretty adventerous, food-wise, but dog brains, fried seahorses, scorpions, and starfish? No.

Well, mmmmaybe I'd nibble on a scorpion leg. But dog brains sound absolutely revolting and potentially disease-ridden, while seahorses and starfish fall into the "much too cute, and did you know that seahorses are endangered, goddammit?"


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 10:00 AM
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From KR's previous comment:

fried squirrel is good eatin'

Now you know the real reason the foreign exchange student wouldn't let him take off her shorts.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 10:01 AM
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I'd eat starfish, and probably seahorse. Definitely scorpion. Dog brain probably not; I'm not a huge fan of brains generally. I'd eat dog under the right circumstances, though.

I was really disappointed to fail to find fried cricket in southeast Asia.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 10:02 AM
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176.2: All of the above, I think.

178: Yes, indeed! But consider my tongue stuck out at B.

180: Is sorta right for KR's reasons. You make the vinegar from fermented malt water, but I'm not sure that that counts as beer.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 10:03 AM
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184: My mom often fondly reminisces about fried crickets. Supposedly just like crunchy chips.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 10:04 AM
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184: I used to go to a couple of places in Tokyo that served fried locusts; they're a great bar snack, salty and crunchy.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 10:04 AM
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Oh wait, or maybe it was locusts. Whatever, some kind of leapy little thing.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 10:05 AM
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I have fixed fried termites myself. They are like a very mild-flavored fish. Defnitely tasty.

Termites are a hell of a lot cleaner in their habits than pigs, chickens, or shrimp. I suppose that they might transmit dry rot or something.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 10:06 AM
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Fermented malt was Sam Adams' business' product, not finished beer, which would have required an ability to run a business. Maltster and brewer were distinct job descriptions in colonial Boston, and Sammy was no brewer.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 10:06 AM
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182: They're less gross-looking in that slideshow, but I was almost more disturbed by the Turkey Vulture Schnitzels.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 10:10 AM
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I always thought that Greek food sounded better.

God knows I always put barley and cheese in my wine.

I'm with B regarding 169.3, but then, we're all about bouncing high around here.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 11:11 AM
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I was almost more disturbed by the Turkey Vulture Schnitzels

Q: Why did the turkey vulture get pissed off at the airline?

A: Because they only allowed him one size-limited carrion piece.


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 11:13 AM
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God knows I always put barley and cheese in my wine.

Good thing you mostly drink alone, then!


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 11:14 AM
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You're an asshole, KR.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 11:15 AM
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Drinking while on the internet doesn't count as drinking alone, in any case. This is long established.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 11:18 AM
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You're an asshole, KR.

Peace offering: 109 was an awesome and underappreciated riposte.


Posted by: Knecht Ruprecht | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 11:39 AM
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I have fixed fried termites myself. They are like a very mild-flavored fish. Defnitely tasty.

"fixed"? Like in formaldehyde?


Posted by: peter | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 4:38 PM
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"I'm fixin to fix me some grub, partner"-type "fix". "Grub", get it?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05- 8-08 5:00 PM
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