You can't get soda from any faucet.
In Ashland Oregon, you can get mineral water from a faucet. It's got a really strange taste.
Also, Coke and Pepsi are implicated in the corn complex. I drink a lot of both, so I guess I am too. They taste better to me from a can.
Bottled water looks particularly pointless since it is so similar to a product that comes freee from taps.
Like how in the Big Rock Candy Mountain, it's silly to actually pay money for stew or whiskey.
interesting article about a bottled water competition
I found one of those Bosnian waters at one of those Russian stores that sells mostly pierogies, tea and canned fish. It tasted like carbonated water, but with less taste, and less carbonation. I also tried "Radenska", from Slovenia. it was noticeably different. I liked it.
Soda hate is old news. Don't you remember the fad for Tab in recyclable paper bags?
Part of the text of my link disappeared, but no important content words.
Also coke and pepsi sell a shitload of bottled water.
I agree with becks. Sometimes I just want to have a lot of cold water.
One could argue that if the bottles are that evil, people should only drink fountain soda or, at a minimum, from 2 liters or cans.
Shearer 1, Becks 0.
Shearer has been a bit on fire today. I think the actual count is Shearer 2, Becks 0, Ogged 0. First joke I can remember him making.
"Mineral water" is the weirdest concept ever. The minearl(s) can be almost anything. We have well water here that tastes as though you dissolved a pinch of baking soda in it -- if you boil off a gallon of it, the last quarter inch will be murky. The mineral is ac arbonate, I presume, with no good or bad effects except a slightly bad taste. But some minerals are toxic.
I actually hate the proliferation of 20 oz bottles as the standard size. I usually want more than a can's worth, but less than 20 oz. But often there's no choice.
I'm such a horrible princess that I've stocked my office on campus with bottles of sparkling mineral water, so I think I've jettisoned all right to have an opinion on this one.
They taste better to me from a can.
Very true.
First joke I can remember him making.
No, he also didn't want to know if nickels were an unacceptable tip.
Shearer's right.
Coke with corn syrup in it sucks.
The water in the well where shivbunny grew up smells of sulfur, which created much merriment after we went into some of the national parks where we learned that settlers thought that natural hot springs smelling of sulfur would cure syphillis. Sulfur-smelling water is very soft, and my hair has never looked better.
"Mineral water" is the weirdest concept ever.
If you think of it as opposed to distilled water (which tastes kind of flat and blah), it's a little less weird, maybe. Some minerals are gross, and others are tasty, but any of them are different from no minerals.
Coke with corn syrup in it sucks.
Aren't you talking about movie house Cokes? Those are the best. I like the extra syrup.
Kids today, I tell ya.
I'm going to enhance my locally-produced, artisanal bottled water idea: reusable glass bottles (technically mason jars). Eh? Eh? $2.99 a bottle, I says.
18: probably as opposed to coke with cane sugar, which is way better by all accounts.
I was hoping for someone in the movie to call some of the weapons built in Iron Man artisanal.
20: Mexican coke (ahem) and kosher for passover coke don't have corn syrup.
Hélas, I am with Foxytail here -- all of my eau, she is gazeuse. My neighbors growing up did have a seltzer spigot in their kitchen. We would make egg creams. Hooray for NJ suburbs where everyone's parents are from Brooklyn.
Isn't Coke's bottled water basically Atlanta tap water?
The water in the well where shivbunny grew up smells of sulfur
I can't remember if you've mentioned exactly where shivbunny is from, but I remember the water in the Canadian prairies generally being pretty awful-tasting.
Awful-tasting, but good for hair.
22: Canadian coke has sugar too, and the Dominican-run mini-mart has started stocking extra Mexican Coke recently because, um, it's been in their business interest to do so since he moved here.
People, it's not just the plastic bottle that's the problem. The problem is that bottled water and soda are both a massive waste of water, and clean, potable water is becoming an increasingly scarce resource. So stop buying bottled water and soda, and cut back on meat while you're at it (or just go vegetarian).
25: if the water ends up consumed, a waste how?
25: Apart from the bottle, how is bottled water a waste of water? I'm confused.
If I've been a vegetarian forever can I keep my fizzy water?
NO YOU CANNOT YOU ARE SINGLEHANDEDLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF THE ENVIRONMENT.
28: if you drink it only from fountains and not bottles, and use reusable glass cups, then yes. Otherwise, no.
Wow. I knew I was personally responsible for the agony of Christ, but now this!
if the water ends up consumed, a waste how?
Because it takes more water to produce a single bottle of bottled water than is actually contained in that bottle.
Completely OT:
Today I biked behind a black SUV with the following written on the back window in some kind of brown greasepaint?
DEAR OBAMA ABORTION IS THE NUMBER ONE KILLER OF BLACK BABIES IN AMERICA.
I tried *so hard* to catch up with the driver at the light so I could signal to him to roll down his window and yell at him, but alas, I failed.
Stras, did you know that by using a computer you're contributing to the genocide in Darfur?
Fuck, I mean rape in the Congo.
So, so racist.
Here's more on the cost of manufacturing bottled water.
The cost of manufacturing soda in terms of water usage is even higher, if I recall correctly.
32: but that's because of the bottle, right? So, contra 25, it is just the plastic bottle that's the problem. I think.
but that's because of the bottle, right? So, contra 25, it is just the plastic bottle that's the problem. I think.
No, it's also the transportation and manufacturing itself. If the bottles were made out of glass, you'd still have an international supply chain wasting lots of water and fossil fuels at the expense of relatively impoverished countries like Fiji. The lack of plastic would make it slightly better for the atmosphere, but not any better for the people whose water is getting poached.
Stras, inefficient agricultural practices waste far more water than households anyway. If we're interested in preserving fresh water, that's the place to start. Changes in household consumption just aren't that big a deal, relatively speaking. That's why I leave my faucets running 24/7.
People, it's best to come to terms with it: soda is a lousy beverage. It's an okay dessert, if you treat it like dessert (ingest in small quantities infrequently), but tap water is what you should be drinking.
Oh, I didn't realize the stress you were placing on "plastic". Yes, I understand the bottle itself is the problem, no matter what it's made of. And I was including manufacturing within the scope of "the problem is the bottle itself".
I filter my tap water. Is that bad too?
40: You're right that agriculture wastes a lot more water. And littering doesn't look like such a big deal in the face of mountaintop removal. But just because Bad Thing X is worse than Bad Thing Y doesn't mean you should ignore Y.
I filter my tap water too, but that's only because of the peer pressure.
17: Some minerals are gross, and others are tasty, but any of them are different from no minerals.
Trying to knock down tautologies is a bitch.
Doesn't NYC have the best (urban) water in the country? I wouldn't think you would need to filter that. Boston water consistently fails every test the EPA offers. But I still feel bad filtering it.
38: I don't drink bottled water, so no, not particularly.
Stras is right, people.
And yet, my car is littered with half empty bottles of water.
If you really cared about the environment B, you would not only not drink bottled water, you would scold people who do.
I completely doubt that soda and bottled water waste any significant quantity of water. Agriculture, lawns, golf courses, industry, carwashes, and wasteful household use all have to rank ahead by an order of magnitude or more.
Maybe not carwashes.
That said, I'd feel stupid paying money for water. I also never drink water, just beer and coffee. But I make coffee from carbonate-rich well water from the tap.
50: And here I thought scolding Ogged for being sexist was enough to get me into heaven.
SF has really spectacular water. That said, the only bottled water I drink is bottled locally so there's no trans-pacific nonsense, and I also feel compelled to point out that cooling a power plant does not require fresh water nor necessarily consume it.
If people in SoCal really cared about the environment they wouldn't drink water at all. Just think of the harm to the environment in the delta or in Owens Valley. The aqueduct just encourages folks to live a non-sustainable lifestyle. Now here in DC, we drink water processed by those nature boys, the Army Corps of Engineers.
Yours in Goalposts and Conjugations.
I don't generally drink bottled water, but it really does seem like a relatively minor environmental crime. And anyhow, Nalgene bottles are super lame and get disgusting in a hurry.
On the other hand, PK did make me stop the bike today so he could pick up a styrofoam cup and throw it in the trash can where it belonged.
If people in SoCal really cared about the environment they wouldn't have cities there.
Your urine can be reprocessed the way astronauts do. lot of them developed a taste for it and continued to drink reprocessed urine after they returned to earth.
it really does seem like a relatively minor environmental crime
I have no idea, but in terms of unnecessary stupidity it really is kind of an obvious no-brainer.
I BUILT LOS ANGELES WITH MY OWN TWO HANDS.
Opinionated Academic!
Good for PK and you. Plus bikes are great.
On the other hand, PK did make me stop the bike today so he could pick up a styrofoam cup and throw it in the trash can where it belonged.
Well, technically it belonged in the recycling bin... But seriously, good for PK.
I filter my tap water too, but that's only because of the peer pressure.
Wait, filtering your water is bad? It never even occurred to me to feel guilty about that!
I buy bottled ice cubes. Then I grind them up and throw them into the ceiling fan and cheer, "It's snowing in May!"
iltering your water is bad? It never even occurred to me to feel guilty about that!
Rory's going to have lots of cavities, and it's ALL YOUR FAULT.
Isn't Coke's bottled water basically Atlanta tap water?
It's tap water from wherever the local bottling facility is located, tarted up with some baking soda and salt so that it tastes the same nationwide. The incredible thing is that they have begun to market it as an environmentally friendly product, since the water is not shipped long distances and the packaging is lighter, both of which are true as far as they go, but sort of pale before the alternative of drinking your local tap water.
Some minerals are gross, and others are tasty, but any of them are different from no minerals.
Trying to knock down tautologies is a bitch.
Water bereft of minerals tastes funny, or more precisely, it tastes like nothing, which is a wierd sensation. Try drinking distilled water sometime. It's not terribly enjoyable. A little bit of assorted carbonates and chlorides makes all the difference.
Ah well. Drilling builds character. At least she won't have [whatever the bad thing was that fluoride is supposed to do to kids].
OK, but if your typology is mineral water vs. distilled water, it's an incredibly crude one. Minerals can be good, bad, or indifferent, and usually "mineral water" means LOTS of random minerals.
At least she won't have [whatever the bad thing was that fluoride is supposed to do to kids].
Autism. Or maybe the loss of her bodily essence, I forget which.
That's the fluoride, B. Fucking with your brain.
The water in the well where shivbunny grew up smells of sulfur, which created much merriment after we went into some of the national parks where we learned that settlers thought that natural hot springs smelling of sulfur would cure syphillis.
The tour guides at this place like to boast about how presidents, senators, and captains of industry used to visit the spa for the healing effects of its sulfur waters, but they dance around the issue of exactly what ailments were being treated.
There's also the "why do we allow industrial concerns to dump their waste product in our drinking water" question. My fiancee, the dentist's daughter, always comes back to that one.
In the XIXc healing waters were a cult in Europe. Boredom, depression and horniness seem to have been among the ailments treated at the baths.
They were no less a cult in the U.S., John.
I wouldn't limit it to XIXc. Baths, spas, Baden Baden Powell, Preparation H2O.
77: I worked for a company in 1975 which was still famous three decades because of its successful attempts to get around water-purity laws. fair means or foul. It was a mom-n-pop electroplating/polishing plant run by a quaint old German couple.
cooling a power plant does not require fresh water nor necessarily consume it.
Not necessarily, but using salt water increases maintenance costs.
Bottled water is terrible. I do occasionally buy it, usually when I'm out and about in the city and convenience stores that sell bottled water are infinitely easier to find than a water fountain (What the *&&*&^*&^ is up with that?). Home is strictly tap water, which tastes great. We have a filter pitcher in the fridge, but it's really just an excuse to keep it colder; the filter is ancient and could probably be removed and it would be a year before anybody noticed.
I do worry about the water consumption when I make beer, though - lots of rinsing of things, and a lot of cold water for chilling. But hey, homemade beer!
Here's the hit song about healing mineral-water tourist traps that's burning up the charts on the AAA radio stations.
I completely doubt that soda and bottled water waste any significant quantity of water.
It's not just sheer quantity; it's also the effect that an imported water industry is having on third world sources of water, which are now being exported to America and Europe with predictably deleterious effects.
And B, it's pretty fucking hypocritical of you to complain that I'm being a scold here.
And B, it's pretty fucking hypocritical of you to complain that I'm being a scold here.
Consumerism's different. She likes it. Commie.
And B, it's pretty fucking hypocritical of you to complain that I'm being a scold here.
In environmentalism as well as feminism, we all know that one person's decisions can have no effect on society, so it's silly to be concerned with other people's attitudes.
My point was that the sheer quantity was tiny. Drinking water altogether is a tiny proportion of even household water use.
I usually just filter tap water. It ends up tasting better, but I'm not sure if it's because my local water is bad tasting or that I'm still used to the tap water in my hometown, which was very yummy.
cooling a power plant does not require fresh water nor necessarily consume it
They do tend to dump a lot of heat pollution into their water sources. The water that comes out of the cooling tower is several degrees warmer than what goes in, and the ecology of rivers downstream from power plants is notably different from upstream, in some cases. It's not the most significant environmental concern out there, but it's not nothing, either.
B's fluoridated scold soul is destined for lewd heaven.
90: Yes, the sheer quantity is small, but the effect it's having on the places where that water is coming from isn't small at all.
83: I am pretty convinced that the single greatest determinant of water flavor is coldest. Colder tastes better, warmer tastes weird.
My point was that the sheer quantity was tiny. Drinking water altogether is a tiny proportion of even household water use.
You're missing the point, Emerson. Inconvenience and privation are their own reward, when it comes to salving the conscience of the Western consumer. In commiting yourself to painful, but meaningless sacrifices, you absolve yourself of the obligation to change your behavior in more meaningful ways. It's like autoflagellation, or walking up the steps at Rocamadour on your knees.
And B, I really don't see what your point is. "Humorless scold" is an epithet typically flung at feminists as often as it is at environmentalists, and it's done specifically to avoid having to confront important and pervasive problems. If someone reacted to you the way you've reacted to my fairly unoffensive, on-topic comments upthread, you'd be justifiably irritated.
"Coldness", Sifu. We speak English here.
I save more water per year than the whole bunch of you busy-do-gooder-bodies by peeing in the sink instead of the toilet.
97: And here we go with the "recycling is just another kind of self-flagellation" meme. Half this thread's comments could've been culled from Megan McArdle outtakes.
They do tend to dump a lot of heat pollution into their water sources. The water that comes out of the cooling tower is several degrees warmer than what goes in, and the ecology of rivers downstream from power plants is notably different from upstream, in some cases. It's not the most significant environmental concern out there, but it's not nothing, either.
Oh, absolutely. But when someone says "the world is running out of fresh water, and drinking bottled water is scandalous because it consumes 6 times as much water as you actually drink so stop it right now", it's reasonable to say "let's look at this in a bit more detail."
98: Oh please, SJ. First, the "school a feminist about feminism" move is so incredibly tired in leftier-than-thou circles, and second, at least when I bitch at people, it's to actually disagree with them.
That plus nagging people about eating meat is soooo 90s.
But when someone says "the world is running out of fresh water, and drinking bottled water is scandalous because it consumes 6 times as much water as you actually drink so stop it right now", it's reasonable to say "let's look at this in a bit more detail."
Do you actually dispute that drinking bottled water consumes several times more water than you actually drink? And if not, then why shouldn't we stop drinking bottled water?
58: If people in SoCal really cared about the environment they'dwouldn't have cities there. all wear my newest line of artisanal stillsuits.
And that's why they don't call him bottled water moccasin.
leftier-than-thou
I get the distinct impression that it doesn't take much of a lefty to be leftier than thou. Or, for that matter, much of a feminist to be more feminist than thou.
100: Or you could go ahead and pee in the toilet and just not flush every time.
105: Has anyone in this thread other than Oudemia--the wastrel!--said they drink bottled water, Stras?
108: Gosh, Stras, I guess you've really told me.
I don't think that the waterfilters leech out flouride; I certainly hope not, anyway. The main reasons I've succumbed to peer pressure and gotten a filter-pitcher is because there's that slight cloudiness (hard water) that the filter gets rid of, because I don't quite trust my stoner landlord to have de-leaded pipes, and lastly, because I get kind of embarrassed not to have one in front of guests. Oh, and because hard water totally fries the electric tea-kettle.
Stras is completely right in this thread, btw. Hooray, there's two of us!
That plus nagging people about eating meat is soooo 90s.
So nineties? This isn't "stop hurting the poor animals" territory here. You are aware that meat consumption on the scale that Americans engage in is a massive contributor to, among other things, topsoil erosion, water depletion and global warming? The notion that humans are going to have to eat a lot less meat in the future isn't some radical fringe view limited to the likes of PETA; it's pretty much taken for granted in environmental circles.
Completely right, that is, until 108, which isn't going to make any friends.
I eat meat because it's fucking delicious. I try to eat less beef, and less mass market beef, but at a point, I could help the planet by not eating, and I won't do that: so. Individual steps do matter, of course, but it is absolutely correct that there is a point at which the politicization of the personal ends up being the no-fun league, and why not strive for policy solutions before we get to that.
But but NYC's water is famously soft.
111: I don't think the filters take out fluoride.
I second 115. she said while tossing bottled ice cubes into the fan.
Only the really super expensive water filters remove fluouride. (Like, $1,000+). It's really hard to get out of water.
Has anyone in this thread other than Oudemia--the wastrel!--said they drink bottled water, Stras?
Which is what makes your reaction kind of mystifying. What, exactly, are you getting so irritated at? The fact that you'd like to reserve the theoretical right to waste resources? The fact that you just don't like seeing anyone say that consumer culture might have negative consequences, ever?
114 actually should have been "less mass-market meat", not just beef.
119: Please. I take them out of the bottles first.
But but NYC's water is famously soft.
Hm. And hm again. I, uh, I don't know about that. Christ, that's the last time I listen to my loopy English former-roommate about science issues.
121: sir, your manners are just shocking, and absolutely inappropriate for a forum as high-minded and decorous as this one. Why, the fainting couches have filled clean up.
Were it not for your distasteful breaches of gentlemen's etiquette I have no doubt we'd be celebrating a fine post-prandia with grass-fed cigars and fair trade cognac right now.
111, 118, 120: So I am not destroying my child's teeth? Yay!! One thing I have not screwed up!
I eat meat because it's fucking delicious.
Yes, meat is delicious. But I tell people not to eat it much, or at all, anyway, because the way that meat is produced and consumed is wildly unsustainable, and because short of a massive policy change at the federal level that radically raises the price of meat and reduces the amount of meat produced in this country, personal changes are all we've got. And because the more people commit to that personal change, the more likely it is that policy change will become politically possible.
121: YES! I love consumer culture and waste. And I had NO IDEA that meat production was wasteful! More plastic for me, please.
Sifu's right, but let me add that if you're going to try to scold people for being wasteful and get them to change their personal habits, you might *at least* scold them about (1) things they actually do; (2) things they actually don't already know.
83: I am pretty convinced that the single greatest determinant of water flavor is coldest. Colder tastes better, warmer tastes weird.
Too cold hurrrrts in the gullet.
you might *at least* scold them about (1) things they actually do; (2) things they actually don't already know
Says the glass-house-dweller. Which of your responses could not have been delivered to any of your comments in any of the feminism threads?
You know what, the boys have gone out to see a movie tonight. I think I'll order a big plate o' ribs from the rib place that actually delivers.
I'll see if I can give 'em a wrong address, too, so they have to drive around a while before they call me to find out where I live. Then I'll have to heat the ribs up in the oven because they'll have gotten cold!
I concede, Stras. You are a much, much better feminist and human being than I am.
I'd enjoy cold water more if they didn't keep the AC in restaurants set to mega-extreme.
I just ate my third or fourth meal from last week's "small chicken"! Beautiful soup (celery, squash, cilantro, onion, sweet potato) with a base of beautiful chicken stock, and I have another quart in the freezer. Another quart of both the soup and the stock, I mean.
So, if the Nazis occupy and bomb my city and I have to stretch meager food rations, I'll do okay as long as the electricity still works, which I suppose is a dubious assumption. Hm.
I'll cop to drinking bottled water.
My office gets Deer Park (yes, deer shit in the water). The building has water fountains and sinks. The building's water also tastes ungood. Not horrible, but a off. Not much we can do as the building is being rehabbed and we are already in a rehabbed section. Heck, we can't get the HVAC to work right either. Your tax dollars at work.
Okay, let me get this straight. I'm getting chewed out for responding on-topic to a post about bottled water and why it's considered bad.
When I talk about why bottled water is viewed in a negative light - not just by me but by pretty much everyone who writes about the environment - everyone acts like I've run over their dog. What the fuck, people?
25 wasn't all that scoldy, as scoldiness goes. Not that I really give a shit. Buying bottled water for me is a tax on stupidity for not filling up my water bottle before I left the house, though I have to find something to replace my Nalgene bottle since they're supposed to be bad now.
Half this thread's comments could've been culled from Megan McArdle outtakes.
"Could've been"? Have been. It's called recycling. Try it. You might like it.
Nazis in NY? Jackmormon will just reach back to her Yukon roots. She's a survivor born of survivors. (OK , so we all are. But she's got the talent.)
Do you actually dispute that drinking bottled water consumes several times more water than you actually drink? And if not, then why shouldn't we stop drinking bottled water?
I do dispute the several times assertion, or at least assert my skepticism. The vast majority of the water usage the linked post claims comes from their plastic production, and I believe that the vast majority of this goes for process cooling, which does not "use" water in the sense they are trying to assert.
Does using bottled water have costs? Yes. Does it have benefits? Yes. If I have a limited desire to care about stuff, should I devote it to agitating for more water fountains and less bottled water? Doubtful.
It wasn't the criticism of bottled water, Stras; it was the merest suggestion that you might move into criticizing meat-consumption. These are some defensive meat-eaters around here.
134: Isn't that fun? We've been doing that here. Roast chicken one night, and leftovers and a carcass that I can turn into great homemade broth.
And looking back, it took me two comments to send B flying off the deep end, and these two comments are here and here. I've said before that I've tried to change the tone of my comments around here to not clash as much with other commenters, but it's pretty clear that I've no idea what sets you people off.
Has anyone in this thread other than Oudemia--the wastrel!--said they drink bottled water, Stras?
No, I do too -- fizzy water. At least they're big bottles, and glass, but it's definitely a net ill. I also don't let Snark put in as many compact fluorescents in the house as he'd do if he had his druthers, and a number of other wasteful things. I buy stuff at Whole Foods, too, and travel by air a fair amount. I'm quite ideologically impure in my habits, though I try not to be too hideous about it.
But I tell people not to eat it much, or at all, anyway, because the way that meat is produced and consumed is wildly unsustainable, and because short of a massive policy change at the federal level that radically raises the price of meat and reduces the amount of meat produced in this country, personal changes are all we've got.
Cheer up, Stras: thanks to inflation and the skyrocketing cost of grain, soon people won't be able to eat as much beef as they want anyway, and then the polar caps will melt and we'll all be shark food. (JM has it in 141.)
it was the merest completely gratuitous and irrelevant but incredibly cliched suggestion that you might move into criticizing meat-consumption.
Look, I thought it was funny, so I made fun. I'M SO SORRY I'LL NEVER MOCK VEGETARIANS AGAIN.
I really don't understand why B is crawling up Stras's ass in this thread. He may be humorlessly scolding, but he's right, and the reaction to it seems needlessly defensive.
Mock vegetarian soup is delicious.
I've no idea what sets you people off.
Racist!
Hey now, the criticism of bottled water does not merely rest on actual water consumption. Nor is the harm of bottled water limited to the costs of producing the bottles or attempting to recycle the bottles. (I am seriously skeptical about the efficiency of most plastics recycling; sure, I sort my plastics and do my best, but what I've read isn't encouraging.)
In re bottled water I'm mostly worried about 1) transportation costs, and 2) the gradual erosion of political support for the fucking kick-ass municipal water systems. Watersheds! Aquaducts! Reservoirs! Pipes! Treatment Centers! And then you turn on the tap in your kitchen and clean water comes out! This is a modern marvel, a wonderful, astonishing beautiful thing! And you suggest I should drink water from a sealed jug like a refugee? I think not.
146: Gratuitous my ass. I was talking about water usage, and one of the biggest uses of water goes into the production of meat. If people want to conserve water, they should look into eating less meat.
Get a fucking grip, B. You don't flip out this much on Ogged when he starts feminist-baiting.
People, up through comment 92 I was being funny. In fact, comment 92 specifically pointed to me making fun of . . . myself!
I then went badly wrong by trying to respond to Stras seriously, which I knew was a bad idea at the time. Mea culpa.
I drink fizzy water. The kind with essense 'o lime. And for that matter, I bought a bottle of water with electrolytes in it because I was at the store and I was fucking thirsty. Part and parcel of my unsustainable American lifestyle? Yes. And there we are.
People often try to do their best, to then be scolded for their best not being good enough seems petty, and rankles. The only way any of us could do enough, really, would be to move to a place where we could live sustainably, except the only places like that are unspoiled wilderness, and then what? We live in America, we are ipso facto guilty of using way more than our share. We should think, as a nation, about this. But in the meantime here we are.
Anyhow stras I thought you figured we were all doomed anyhow.
In re bottled water I'm mostly worried about 1) transportation costs, and 2) the gradual erosion of political support for the fucking kick-ass municipal water systems. Watersheds! Aquaducts! Reservoirs! Pipes! Treatment Centers! And then you turn on the tap in your kitchen and clean water comes out! This is a modern marvel, a wonderful, astonishing beautiful thing! And you suggest I should drink water from a sealed jug like a refugee? I think not.
There was a pretty biting letter by some Major or Colonel or whatever who was bitching about the inanity of having this huge logistics tail to move bottled water around in Iraq, when the Army had spent lots of money on water purification systems and water tankers and whatnot. I also don't like the trend in restaurants away from serving tap water in a glass.
But I'll be damned if I'm not going to keep a couple of bottles of water in my van in case I end up thirsty somewhere.
Seriously, B, why are you being such an asshole in this thread?
As far as I can tell, 152 consists of "I was just joking! Gawwwwwwwwwwd!" followed by another snipe. Why?
Now I'm wondering whether Obama and Clinton have positions on bottled water, and if we need to ask Obama to denounce and reject Aquafina, and if we say Clinton is 'all wet' we're being sexist.
I bought a bottle of water with electrolytes in it
THE THIRST MUTILATOR
Anyhow stras I thought you figured we were all doomed anyhow.
I think we're doomed precisely because we're too stupid and short-sighted to give up stuff like bottled water and cheap meat in order to save the future of the human race.
In re bottled water I'm mostly worried about 1) transportation costs, and 2) the gradual erosion of political support for the fucking kick-ass municipal water systems.
2, exactly. I worry that the expectation that tap water is potable is being lost, and that water systems will deteriorate as a result.
151.2: That's because Ogged also loves consumer culture and red meat. Plus, as a fellow Californian, he's helping destroy the water table, so I can't hate him *too* much.
JM, I know people are kind of down on it fifteen years later, but the "Mulholland's Dream" section of the Cadillac Desert documentary is pretty stunning.
But I'll be damned if I'm not going to keep a couple of bottles of water in my van in case I end up thirsty somewhere.
No, no, that makes perfect sense. Remember to switch them out every year, though. For a couple of years after 9/11 I stored emergency water, and then when the plumbing went out, I tried to drink it---gah.
And yes, if you're out of the house without water, and you're thirsty, you can buy some water, of course. If you realise that you're doing this every other day, you're spending too much money for being disorganised. Everything in moderation.
Because I'm mean, remember?
Except that usually when you're mean, there's a reason, like someone's being a sexist ass. I dunno. I just think this knee-jerk defensiveness is beneath you.
It really shouldn't be controversial to say that an environmentally conscious American should try to avoid bottled water (and plastic bags, etc), should be aware of the environmental impact of meat production and adjust their consumption accordingly.
158: and it was, too! Mmm, vaguely salty.
159: well, I guess all you can do is call people stupid and short-sighted one at a time.
the expectation that tap water is potable is being lost
That's a big concern of mine too. Outside of work I drink local water and often enough get negative comments from friends. DC water isn't the greatest. Still it is OK. (Bubbling it is better.) But when someone like JM feels a social pressure to serve filtered water in a city that has some of the best municipal water, then we have troubles.
160.---It's so similar to the public schools argument that I'm surprised more people (like, anyone) aren't talking it up.
162.---I don't know it!
167.---It's a Britta filter, if that mitigates anything? I used to drink tap water, unfiltered, in San Diego, so it really isn't that I'm too fastidious.
I used to use a proper seltzer bottle! But I got tired of having to make special trips to get the cartridges.
Ooh, a friend of mine got a proper seltzer bottle for his birthday, and now whenever I go over to his house, we get delicious fizzy drinks.
170: Like a clown, when someone falls for a gag?
I just think this knee-jerk defensiveness is beneath you.
Thanks for the rather condescending compliment. In fact, as I already said, I'm neither being nor feeling defensive, and 152 was really pretty straightforward.
You and Stras can enjoy ad-homing and pschoanalyzing me all you like, though. I'm actually in kind of a good mood tonnight and am unlikely to be annoyed by it. Go figure.
167: Yeah, there's nothing wrong with the filter, but it's surprisingly common for people to view drinking unfiltered tap water as weird, and that worries me. (It's number 718 on the list.)
Oh, I don't think you are too fastidious. I'm certainly not pointing fingers. I just thought it was an interesting anecdote that illustrated a trend. Look at me. I'm a journalist!
170: A high-school friend had seltzer in syphons delivered by a service. I thought it was the coolest thing ever at the time. They were blue glass, and all old and scratched up on the outside.
I have to find something to replace my Nalgene bottle since they're supposed to be bad now.
Only the polycarbonate bottels have BPA. If you want something that's hard and clear like polycarb, look for the Nalgenes, Camelbaks, etc. that are being made with Tritan.
http://www.rei.com/search?vcat=REI_SEARCH&query=tritan
162.---I don't know it!
Do you know the book? It's all about water policy in California -- I'm sure the good Megan has things to say about it, but IIRC people are kind of down on it now. The first third of the book is all about Mulholland's great water theft, as seen in Chinatown, and the amazing (and eventually disastrous) engineering feats that were involved and left Mulholland a broken, disgraced man. Seriously awesome in an "oh my God, what were people thinking?" two-fisted engineer way.
If we've all just decided that this thread should be awkward, we could play How Much Is Your Monthly Energy Bill?.
170: Like a clown, when someone falls for a gag?
Yes, just like! But the C02 charger cartridges aren't available at just any corner store, so it's a bit of a hassle. Also they don't actually hold much water, so you go through chargers really fast.
A high-school friend had seltzer in syphons delivered by a service.
I would love this a lot.
Megan told me that Cadillac Desert is not bad, but that the research in it is terribly outdated now. I think she's actually guardedly optimistic about CA's water situation (I could be completely wrong, but that's how I've read some of her comments over at EotAW).
My take on the book is that it's clearly polemic, but very interesting and apparently sound polemic. I liked it.
You and Stras can enjoy ad-homing and pschoanalyzing
Can I make fun of your typing instead?
I never read the book, but the great water theft did have a way of getting talked about in Northern California, oh yep.
179: Ours is paid by the landlord, because she doesn't want us to skimp on running the pump to keep the koi poind going.
177: If you *really* want to be environmentally conscious, you'll just re-use a plastic bottle from something else. Oh, and stop eating meat.
the "Mulholland's Dream" section of the Cadillac Desert documentary is pretty stunning.
Can you give a clear summary of it? I had a hell of a time making head or tail of what happened amongst all the axe-grinding.
183: Sure, knock yourself out. Apparently Ben's not around tonight, so someone has to.
I grew up in the middle of that 1980s drought in California, so got used to taking two-inch-deep baths and skiing on gravel and that sort of thing. When I first went to Southern California, the sight of green lawns in the deserts made me violently angry.
If you re-use a non-reusable plastic bottle, you'll end up spending more replacing them than you would on a $10 nalgene bottle.
(It's number 718 on the list.)
This, I think, sums up my thoughts. Yes, important. Not as important as lots and lots of other things, unfortunately.