Re: The standards of evidence remain what they were.

1

Well, if the Iranians *aren't* funnelling arms to their preferred militias, I think they're nuts.


Posted by: Anderson | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 2:25 PM
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Sadly most of the explosives probably come from a cache of C4 that we failed to secure during the invasion. We were too busy securing the oil wells.

The loss was glossed over at the time but I knew that it did not bode well for the future.

Sigh.

As a side note - yes, I exist. Cogito etc. I had a year sabbatical in Kenya which was rather remarkable and was joined briefly by my Daughter who took a study abroad semester there.

I have way too many things to say.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 2:28 PM
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nice, there is a new post
could not win over even hitler's picture, sigh
but now i can skip it, yay


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 2:29 PM
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TRIPP! HOLY SHIT!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 2:31 PM
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It is hard to even call what they are doing "lying" because it jumbles up so many aspects of reality both explicitly and implicitly. It isn't even the "Big Lie", it is the creation of a whole alternative reality of a fantasy mideast (even ignoring the politics, just in how the countries and borders work or don't etc.) that sounds plausible to American consumers (but is in fact wildly implausible), and then "lying" about events even within the "reality" of that fantasy world.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 2:35 PM
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Tripp!! Wow!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 2:35 PM
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Tripp!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 2:36 PM
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Tipp? (No need to answer. I just felt like playing the descending punctuation game.)


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 2:40 PM
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Yeah. Turns out I raised some cool kids who got Pops to do the caring thing in Africa.

My daughter's blog is here. I'm still semi-anonymous because I'm back working for the man so I have no URL to link too.

I came back to the States early this year but was busy hooking up with my job and shuttling one sprog (near as I can tell there are four total that I know about) off to college and stuff. Now I've got enough free time to start saving the world again, one blog at a time. (joke)

So, how've you been?


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 2:40 PM
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And also the misspelling someone's name game.


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 2:40 PM
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Air,

No problem dude.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 2:42 PM
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We've been wondering what you'd gotten up to, Tripp.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 2:43 PM
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2: Sadly most of the explosives probably come from a cache of C4 that we failed to secure during the invasion.

Yes. Now at some point I am sure they will find some explosive that was manufactured in/bought in/ or shipped via Iran, but it will absolutely pale beside that amount that we let slip through our fingers at places like Al'QaQaa . Sad irony #573 of the war is that the IAEA ofered to help us with identifying what was in the various depots, but we did not take them up on it, in part because we had to keep up the illusion of them not knowing shit about the real situation in Iraq.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 2:44 PM
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So, how've you been?

Mostly wondering about you, Pops.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 2:45 PM
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Pwgged.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 2:46 PM
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Mostly wondering about you, Pops.

Yikes!

You really do care (sniffle).

I do apologize though. I got the "chance of a lifetime" (business speak for "your-one-and-only-never-to-be-repeated-in-your-career -don't-you-dare-ask-for-this-again-sabbatical") to go assuage my ugly American white man guilt and try to fix some of the damage done by Bush in the bush of Africa. Specifically in one of the "most stable countries in Africa" which started to break up just as I was leaving and my daughter was arriving, wouldn't you know it. Yeah, Kenya. Nairobi, sometimes, but not often, so I really kicked the internet habit for awhile.

Did you know male lions have it MADE?! Dudes. I want to come back as a male lion.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 2:53 PM
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What were you actually doing there, Tripp?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:01 PM
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Obviously, he was lying under a tree and eating meat brought to him by his pride of females.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:05 PM
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8, I'll play your crazy game: tripp


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:06 PM
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Dudes. I want to come back as a male lion.

quick-like, before they're extinct.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:07 PM
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yesterday's link about tantalum in Congo and rape victims was very disturbing and sad
i've read somewhere that Chinese are doing good a lot in Africa like providing aid and goods and training as the Soviets did in the past, may be they will succeed what the West could not accomplish


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:10 PM
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may be they will succeed what the West could not accomplish

The Chinese are going to wipe out the Native Americans? That seems wrong somehow.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:18 PM
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is it wrong to say 'succeed what'? may be should say they will 'have success in what etc'
i did not thought anything about Native Americans
i was talking about Africa


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:22 PM
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read,

Being serious for a moment - the future looks very bleak for Africa. It is very sad. (big big sigh)

But humor helps.

Ogged - seriously? Trying to be Christ-like without proselytizing. I don't like to talk about it much. It is too depressing.

Talking is for joking. Doing is for helping.


Posted by: Tripp | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:24 PM
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or may be heebie-geebie is bringing down the "discussion" to my illiterate, dumb person level
no need to bother then


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:25 PM
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'think' it was


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:26 PM
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Trying to be Christ-like

Dirty Stigmatic hippie.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:28 PM
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or may be heebie-geebie is bringing down the "discussion" to my illiterate, dumb person level

It was just a joke, read.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:29 PM
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Talking is for joking. Doing is for helping.

You mean...blog commenting isn't helping!?? I'VE BEEN WASTING MY TIME!


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:30 PM
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Talking is for joking. Doing is for helping.

Ok, Tripp is still bathing in the beatific light of the birthplace of humanity. Quick, somebody talk about football.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:31 PM
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i've read somewhere that Chinese are doing good a lot in Africa like providing aid and goods and training as the Soviets did in the past,

Maybe, but on the other hand they're also happily shipping machetes, mortars, and small arms to African countries about to plunge into Civil War, so it might all be a wash in the end.

There were stories of the bush Administration stopping a Chinese ship loaded with weaponry, and really throwing US weight around to keep it from going into Zimbabwe. If true, that's awesome and I will add it to my short, short list of "ballsy things Bush has done that not only weren't batshit evil, but were actually good."


Posted by: theorajones | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:32 PM
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or may be heebie-geebie is bringing down the "discussion" to my illiterate, dumb person level

I admit I think it's fun to heckle you, read, but I don't think you're dumb or illiterate.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:32 PM
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Quick, somebody talk about football.

There was an excellent kick-to-the-face KO on The Ultimate Fighter this week.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:33 PM
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31: Wasn't it South Africa, not the U.S. that did that? It started with a particular port in S.A. refusing to unload the ship, and then I thought the government joined in. But I haven't followed the story as closely as I could have.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:35 PM
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That heebie-geebie. Such a heckler.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:37 PM
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The hecklest!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:37 PM
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Read, Heebie-Geebie is just jealous. You're a new competitor for the the wittiest Unfogged commenter. Beautiful women like Heebie tend to be very insecure and easily threatened by competitors.

Your everytime i open unfogged there is hitler, very uncomfortable was the best comment here in months, naturally others are going to try to take you down a peg now. You just have to stay strong.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:39 PM
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I just gotta say, when Apo's posting the hard political news, and Ogged's doing the goofball videos, something is very wrong with the world blog.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:41 PM
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That heebie-geebie. Such a heckler.

There's a L'il Wayne track I was just listening to that rhymes "heebie-geebies" with "beep beep," "freebies," "these fees," and "deez jeans."


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:43 PM
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Read, Heebie-Geebie is just jealous. You're a new competitor for the the wittiest Unfogged commenter. Beautiful women like Heebie tend to be very insecure and easily threatened by competitors.

It is rumored that I'm beautiful, but I wear a black veil and no one knows for sure. Also it is rumored that I live in Texas, but some believe there are a thousand Heebies in black veils throughout the land, quietly snuffing our witty competition.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 3:54 PM
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Also it is rumored that I live in Texas, but some believe there are a thousand Heebies in black veils throughout the land, quietly snuffing our witty competition.

Now that you mention it, has anybody seen Sir Kraab recently?


Posted by: KR | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 4:15 PM
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Heebie also washes her hands continually, and is always inciting her husband of the moment to murder someone. No one dares warn Jammies.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 4:16 PM
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Now that you mention it, has anybody seen Sir Kraab recently?

Or Mai-tai, for that matter?

THE PLOT THICKENS


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 4:18 PM
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It is rumored that I'm beautiful, but I wear a black veil and no one knows for sure.

All we know for certain is that you have a nice ass (smaller than Hillary's!) and mysterious mathematical symbols on your sweater.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 4:30 PM
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And I (helpfully) speak in tongues!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 4:34 PM
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Hi Tripp!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 4:58 PM
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Hi Tripp!!


Posted by: Ari | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 6:14 PM
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31, 34:

Looks like Washington had something to do with it, although it could be that they stepped in after it was a fait accompli.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5i8i2RKEJLceA-JmwiItoRCimp-Ow

BEIJING (AFP) -- A Chinese ship that sparked international condemnation for attempting to transport weapons to Zimbabwe is being brought back to China, the government said Thursday.

"To my knowledge, the Chinese company has decided to bring back the boat," Jiang Yu, a foreign ministry spokeswoman, told reporters.

The news comes after the United States asked that China withdraw the weapons shipment destined for Zimbabwe and halt further arms shipments to the increasingly isolated African regime.

"The cargo was not unloaded because the Zimbabwe side failed to receive the goods as scheduled, so the Chinese company made the decision according to this situation," Jiang said.

She reiterated that the contract was signed last year and that it did not break any laws or international obligations.

"Some people in the US are always critical, positioning themselves as the world's policeman, but they are not popular in the world," Jiang said about the US State Department's demand that China halt the shipment.

"It's pointless... to politicise this issue," she said.


Posted by: Klug | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 7:28 PM
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sorry, i shouldn't be this moody and short-tempered
i blame hitler :)
Apostropher must be mad at me for derailing his thread


Posted by: read | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 8:20 PM
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I know I'm late but...


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 8:44 PM
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Tripp!


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 8:44 PM
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The South African dockworkers' union refused to unload the Chinese cargo. The South African gov't jumped on the bandwagon afterwards, then after the Chinese ship floated off-shore for a bit, a whole bunch of diplomacy happened, and the ship went home. I give the credit to the stevedores, myself.

I don't know nothing about Iranian weapons in Iraq. I don't believe anybody, but I also don't feel comfortable dismissing the possibility that Iran (or factions within Iran) could be pursuing weird and destabilising tactical goals there.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 9:13 PM
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It would make logical sense that they are, JM. But then the administration line would be that they weren't, so we're back where we started.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 9:16 PM
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The thing that kills me is when military guys swear up and down that they've discovered Iranian materiel. And then, once you look a little into the claims, either the military guys are repeating something they've heard or read about, or they're pure bullshit spokespeople making political arguments for the US and Iraqi audience. I don't know, I guess I want to be able to believe that the military is apolitical; I'm sure false or misleading claims about Iranian weapons would count as allowable "information-tactics" though.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 9:25 PM
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People do all sorts of weird and destabilizing things, so while we might suppose that the Swedes and the Guatemalans aren't up to much in Iraq, you pretty much can't trust anyone else.

I'm not sure about the Swedes, actually.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 9:26 PM
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I thought I saw a report recently that the US had new information on Iran doing various things in Iraq. The source: someone's interrogation. At that point I figured the facts in the article could not be trusted to be actual facts and stopped reading. Which is partly why I'm almost not sure I saw that article recently. I don't think anything major has come out since then, except maybe the story linked in this post.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 9:29 PM
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56.---Oh, jesus, yes, I read that article as well. The interrogation of one poor scared dude: I'm surprised we haven't declared war on Trinidad and Tobago yet at that rate.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 9:31 PM
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57: it's a secret war, waged with trinkets.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 9:33 PM
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Sifu, war waged with trinkets is a long and honored tradition in this country. We have tried and tried to explain that it's not right, which is why it's done covertly now.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 9:37 PM
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I don't know, I guess I want to be able to believe that the military is apolitical; I'm sure false or misleading claims about Iranian weapons would count as allowable "information-tactics" though.

These military sources might be apolitical in the sense of not wanting to intervene in US elections, while still wanting to agitate in favor of endless war. And then it just so happens that agitating in favor of endless war consistently helps out Republican candidates, though this is more a part of the Republican propaganda strategy than a part of the US military's propaganda strategy.


Posted by: Fatrman | Link to this comment | 05- 9-08 10:08 PM
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How far down the chain of command would a war-lust go? At the extremes, it's obvious that if anyone would have such a lust, the top generals would, and that with few exceptions the privates would actually prefer the opposite, at least after seeing combat. Where is the transition point, and where on this spectrum is our information coming from?


Posted by: pdf23ds | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 12:38 AM
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Just another data point, but the Daily Telegraph here had a long article from one of the bottom-feeding hagfish of British journalism claiming that Iranian weapons were being used now to kill British troops in Afghanistan.

It is a small but important pendant that even readers of the Daily Telegraph would now be unaffected by a claim Iranian were being used to kill American troops in Iraq.


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 4:16 AM
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/Iranian/Iranian weapons/


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 05-10-08 9:40 AM
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62: point of information - hagfish are not bottom feeding. They prey on other fish, forcing their way in through the gills, mouth or anus and then devouring their prey from the inside out. A bottom-feeding hagfish would actually be something of an improvement, aesthetically speaking, on its more conventional brethren.
I suggest that Con Coughlin is in fact a "suppurating verruca of British journalism". I believe this description of him is also applied to Ambrose Evans-Pritchard by the Economist style guide.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05-12-08 3:18 AM
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