eh, it's not racist to court West Virginia even if it contains a lot of racists.
No, I don't think Bill was being racist. I was just amused by the "higher-type people" line from Yale Law School grad, Rhodes scholar, and former president of the United States, Bill Clinton.
Eh. Part of the justification for preferring Obama is that he has to win different states. Given the broad Dem advantages, he should be able to do that. Given a win, the Dems can cement the new coalition.
"higher-type people"
Like Tweety and me.
You're not going to smoke me up, apo?
Yes, the "higher type people" thing is ludicrous of course. This is cute.
I suspect that every country has people who think and say stupid shit like this.
I'm liking the "full-blooded American" bit, myself. Also "I heard his wife's an athiest." !!!
You're not going to smoke me up, apo?
Come visit!
Also "I heard his wife's an athiest."
In West Virginia, they spell that word correctly.
She'll be the athiest First Lady ever!
Also "I heard his wife's an athiest." !!!
Well, Obama is already a Muslim with a black nationalist preacher. Believing that's also an atheist would be a bit much.
Real Americans don't like her athier-than-thou attitude.
Michelle Obama is just celebrating her Athy heritage.
3-Hillary Clinton champions the lower-minded people!
Obama's concession speech tomorrow should begin, "I'm going to be the next president. And this is how I'm going to punish you." Probably good for a few points in Kentucky.
||
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7395767.stm
>
[a brief bulletin from the 'not all people are shit' file]
19: B. wins.
ttaM, can the positive-thinking shit. It rankles my ass. Do we have no standards around here?
A person on NPR the other morning said that the two most important things in WVa were gas prices and coal. She clearly said that people in WVa wanted the candidate to explain how they would lower gas prices. I also assume she meant that they wanted the candidate to say how they would revitalize the coal economy.
So basically she said that no one of good conscience and sound mind could win WVa.
22: She has a very sweet face. But this persuading parents to part with their loved ones was particularly traumatic: yow.
Obama's concession speech tomorrow should begin, "Hey, remember when you guys decided to stick with the Union in the Civil War? Good call, but have you gotten anything right since then? Also, Robert Byrd was in the KKK before I was born."
Y'all should have heard Mr. B. talking to his Kentucky-dwelling mom on Saturday about Obama. Luckily she's not a citizen and can't vote.
There's a certain amount of wishful thinking in the title of this post. It's not the old America, it's still today's America, and to tens of millions of people, an Iranian living in San Francisco represents the weird America from which Obama hails.
Welcome back to the culture war.
Luckily she's not a citizen and can't vote.
Nevertheless she wants a full blooded american as president?
It's not the old America, it's still today's America
Thanks for making that explicit, PGD.
, it's still today's America
Or so they claim.
Full bloodied American means someone who worships the Flag and the Pledge.
Oops. I must have had Apo's mouth on my mind.
So basically she said that no one of good conscience and sound mind could win WVa.
Obama's coal policies are pretty terrible, actually. Clean coal is a sham.
30: No, she's not racist. She's just got that old-lady problem of having always supported the Republicans (blah blah National Defense and Communism is Bad!) and not being able to get past that.
yeah, sorry. I'm scared! It's gonna get ugly soon. A learning experience for everybody.
I must have had Apo's mouth on my
Pacing, people! One at a time!
"Higher-type people" is pretty brilliant, actually, and I suspect is the result of extensive focus-group testing and etc. Where I come from, anyway, if you can use the word "elitist," you will lack the moral authority to deploy it properly.
22: her conscience was troubled because she had done so little.
Wow. And, 26: yes.
I suspect is the result of extensive focus-group testing
Nah, Bill does have a genius for this kind of code-switching. He's just so shameless about it that it becomes funny (until you re-realize that it works).
Full bloodied American means someone who worships the Flag and the Pledge.
I'm more of an Endust man, myself.
"I heard that Obama is a Muslim and his wife's an atheist," said Mr Simpson
Which is worse, I wonder?
The Carpetbagger has more goodies from WV and the delightfully-abbreviated KY, like this:
"Race," Patrick said matter-of-factly. "I've talked to people -- a woman who was chair of county elections last year, she said she wouldn't vote for a black man." Patrick said he wouldn't vote for Obama either.
Why not? "Race. I really don't want an African-American as President. Race."
What about race? "I thought about it. I think he would put too many minorities in positions over the white race. That's my opinion. After 1964, you saw what the South did." He meant that it went Republican. "Now what caused that? Race. There's a lot of white people that just wouldn't vote for a colored person. Especially older people. They know what happened in the sixties."
Actually, some really interesting stuff could happen if McCain nominates Bobby Jindal for VP. That would do a lot to catapult the race beyond identity politics stuff in one swoop. The Reps would potentially pick up some suburban votes, but it could eat into the racist base.
41: I don't know what's shameless about it. All politicians do it, and good ones do it well. I think of Bittergate as a result of such code-switching.
33: How can you worship the Pledge of Allegiance? Getting it tattooed on your lower back, sorority spring break-style?
The Reps would potentially pick up some suburban votes, but it could eat into the racist base.
I'm not sure it isn't better described as nativism, at it would (I believe) crush their vote totals without much benefit.
Bill does have a genius for this kind of code-switching
Well, yeah: he's a Rhodes scholar blah blah but he also grew up in fucking Hope, Arkansas blah blah single mom. He's bilingual.
I believe Jindal will be on a national Republican ticket within my lifetime, and it'll be a happy day when it happens. But Tim is probably right that the time is not yet. Maybe in a decade or two when demographic realities are really eating into the Republican reactionary coalition.
"I heard that Obama is a Muslim and his wife's an atheist"
I heard the same thing about Tony Parker.
It's not just his background. There's plenty of people who came from obscure backgrounds who can't do it, either because they can't shake off their old background or they've buried it. He completely inhabits whatever code he's using. It's really damn impressive.
If Jindal were on the ticket, it would really say to the aging racists "no one in power cares about your ideas anymore."
This would be a good thing, of course, but it must feel really sad to discover that your basic belief system has become outdated. Makes me wonder if that will happen to anything I believe by the time I am that old.
How can you worship the Pledge of Allegiance?
Some kids recently refused to stand for the Pledge at school. The radio in my neck of the woods was whipping up the troops for how awful that was.
Hypothetically: Sen. Clinton wins W. Virginia 70/30, Oregon is split 50/50, Sen. Clinton also wins Kentucky 70/30. In this incredibly bad for Sen. Obama scenario, Sen. Clinton makes up 33 delegates out of the 170.5 that Sen. Obama leads by right now, and Sen. Obama would have 11 more delegates than a simple majority of all delegates awarded by primaries or caucuses.
I believe Jindal will be on a national Republican ticket within my lifetime
Short, sleight, foreign-ish, and unattractive? I suppose it depends how long you expect to live. He'll make a nice cabinet official for some Republican president.
Makes me wonder if that will happen to anything I believe by the time I am that old.
Where were you on the value of analytic philosophy?
Oregon is split 50/50
Not going to happen.
"I want someone who is a full-blooded American as president
Whenever I hear someone say something like this, I want to strap them down and make them watch Sinatra's The House I Live In until they puke.
I didn't know that Clinton was bilingual. I thought he just ate pussy.
/stupid
Short, sleight, foreign-ish, and unattractive?
Safe. Won't try to mate with our women.
Short, sleight, foreign-ish, and unattractive?
Could you be more white, Timbot?
I was just amused by the "higher-type people" line from Yale Law School grad, Rhodes scholar, and former president of the United States,
sneered at by le tout Washington when in the White House. I'd say he knows what Higher People are like.
(US Rhodes Scholars are chosen regionally and there's a n additional affirmative action element. )
Short, sleight, foreign-ish, and unattractive?
I don't find him unattractive at all.
Short, sleight, foreign-ish, and unattractive?
Dukakis was a tank-ride away. And Jindal has more charisma than the Duke.
I don't find him unattractive at all.
Blume digs gurus.
Sleight? Is he a magician?
(w-lfs-n appears not o be around.)
Jindal's all right looking. Certainly above average for a politician. I don't think he's a smart pick for McCain--he's less than half his age, and barely old enough to be president.
Jindal is not going to be McCain's pick.
56: I was trying to suggest an implausibly bad scenario, though I now see, via the link in 43, Steve Benen attributing to WJC the idea that W. Va. might go 90/10.
44
Actually, some really interesting stuff could happen if McCain nominates Bobby Jindal for VP. That would do a lot to catapult the race beyond identity politics stuff in one swoop. The Reps would potentially pick up some suburban votes, but it could eat into the racist base.
I don't know. Maybe a little at the margins, but it seems to me that an Indian guy named "Bobby" for vice-president would be far, far more palatable to a racist than a liberal black man named "Hussein" who grew up in a Muslim country at the top of the ticket.
57: We're all Americans, except for the Japs.
That said, I think that video is the first time I've ever been able to see why Sinatra was such a sexpot. Damn.
Jindal is not going to be McCain's pick.
Yeah, I would put money on that.
68: But Clinton would have to agree that WV and KY don't count.
Blume, behave in a fitting and proper manner. Don't mate with Jindal or others of his kind. That would be unseemly.
59: It's a hard world, ogged. And I'm not saying those characteristics are bad globally; I'm suggesting that they're bad for a national candidate that get a substantial number of its votes from nativists.
And attractiveness matters. We all know that, though we might wish it weren't so. (I will always be grateful to Cheers for having the guts to raise the Big Question in a sitcom: "Why do bad things happen to good-looking people?")
I don't find him unattractive at all.
Really? He looks like a "Before" picture ("before I hit the gym," before I tried Proactiv," etc.) to me.
67- Yeah, this is even beyond fantasy-ticket talk. McCain's choice is obviously actuarially important, so this year a potential Republican president must be white male for several reasons.
Dukakis has a giant head, baa. Show me proof Jindal has a giant head and maybe I can get on board.
Assuming Jindal is the one on the left, he's kinda cute.
He looks as though he weighs about 75 pounds.
Standing next to the dude on the right, Fat Albert would look like he weighed 75 pounds.
"Don't let anybody make suckers out of you."
OTOH, Jindal is the one potential running mate who would be less physically imposing than McCain, and who therefore wouldn't overshadow McCain. Everybody else--Pawlenty, Crist, Rice, etc.--fails that test.
Dude that guy's skinny enough for Jackmormon: freaky!
There's been plenty of high-visibility speculation about a Jindal VP slot, but yeah it's a super long shot. He does have the coveted Michelle Malkin endorsement! (I'll spare everybody by not linking her).
He's the governor of Louisiana so clearly he can appeal to those who would normally find subcontinental types scarily foreign. His obvious competence, intelligence, and drive helps too. Perhaps LA is more tolerant of non-conformity than other southern states, though, and more desparate for help too.
Perhaps LA is more tolerant of non-conformity than other southern states
Really not much doubt about that one.
His obvious competence, intelligence, and drive helps too.
His gifts aren't the issue; it's about what choosing him says about McCain, and choosing a cut-rate darkie who looks twelve undermines the "an old white dude is the greatest thing ever" story that's crucial for McCain.
And that's at least the second time recently that you've misspelled "desperate," PGD.
The picture in 76 looks like Alan Alda presiding at a peace conference between India and Appalachia.
Geez, ogged, it's not enough that the guy's consistently misjudged the politics, you have to pile on his spelling, too?
"Alan Alda" should probably be "Bill Murray" or maybe "Bill Pullman."
Really not much doubt about that one.
Really? I think of LA as one of the Three Horses of Apocalypse that voted for Thurmond and Wallace.
He's the governor of Louisiana so clearly he can appeal to those who would normally find subcontinental types scarily foreign. His obvious competence, intelligence, and drive helps too.
The fact that he's Catholic -- and not just midnight Mass on Christmas Catholic, but batshit performing-exorcisms-at-Brown Catholic -- surely makes a big difference.
cut-rate darkie
Rac . . . aw, forget it.
My Mother in law, who lives in W.V., sent this to me in an email last week:
"Wait till I tell you some of the comments made at the store while I spent several hours there registering new voters. I left wondering if I really want these people to vote--but it is their right. just hope they become informed voters because they certainly were not that Saturday. Sample: 'I ain't voting for no A(long A)rab.'"
I am really looking forward to wearing my "Obama Mama"
tee shirt down there at the family reunion this July.
How do you know he wasn't misspelling disparate? Other than the fact that'd make no sense in context, I mean.
57: There's a pretty badass Playboy interview with Sinatra, in which he is quite blunt about his feelings about religion and bigotry. He was a real asshole personally, but was apparently pretty serious about tolerance.
Really? I think of LA as
...the home of New Orleans. Not much else like that in the South except at the Florida Keys.
98: ...and your house on Fridays.
it's not enough that the guy's consistently misjudged the politics sympathized with Hillary
When Obama's president, I will (very happily) confess to having misjudged the politics, or at least to having had groundless doubts probably motivated by internalized racism. Hopefully that's what will happen. I never had any doubts Obama could win the Democratic nomination.
The fact that he's Catholic -- and not just midnight Mass on Christmas Catholic, but batshit performing-exorcisms-at-Brown Catholic
Jindal's like a perfect controlled experiment to separate nativism and general foreigner weirdness-aversion from religious craziness. We already know weirdness-aversion is low in Louisiana.
Sinatra's The House I Live In
Huh. I'd never before seen this heart-warming short, in which Sinatra advises us all to put aside our religious differences so we can kill the Japs.
94: Members of a group are permitted to use language that outsiders can't.
Like read could comment in Mongolian, but nobody else here could.
Like read could comment in Mongolian, but nobody else here could.
You hear that, Emerson?
in which Sinatra advises us all to put aside our religious differences so we can kill the Japs
Yeah, that was hilarious. Turns out that the guy who wrote that, Albert Maltz, was blacklisted later.
Playboy interview
We got a box of late-70s PBs as an attic bonus surprise with the first house we bought. There was a really good interview with Walid Jumblatt. The interviews in those things really are great.
In October 1943 she was arrested and tortured by the Gestapo, but refused to give up the names of the children.
Torture: not 100% effective.
If only internet porn sites had good interviews, today's younger generation would be as well informed as we were.
104, 105 could i? i will
i mean i did not read upthread yet so don't know the context
but i can do that, it would be great
so that you people'd start to look up my comment's words in the dictionary as i do sometimes
We're all Americans, except for the Japs.
Well, yeah.
He was a real asshole personally, but was apparently pretty serious about tolerance.
If I remember right, Sinatra was still pretty left when that short was made. (The Kinsley-era TNR ran a story once on Sinatra titled "When Old Blue-Eyes Was Pink.")
Even the Ivy League college-supported porn publications don't have interesting articles in them nowadays.
You know what I love about the Internet ? Instant access to a Mongolian-English dictionary
But can you trust the result ? Here's what I got for read: їзїїлэх
I actually don't think people should talk about racism as generically as you do. American racism has definite gradations which vary slightly regionally. The hardest core racists/nativists probably reject all foreigners, non-Protestant-Christians, and dark persons all the way down to Italians and Greeks, but even they are more likely to make an exception for, e.g., dark Christians or middle-class Hispanics than they are for ghetto blacks, who are at the bottom of almost all totem poles. Likewise, their are absolute racists who make no exceptions, and overall racists who will say "you're not like all the others".
In short, there are plenty of racist nativists who will accept all races except African-American, or white Protestant foreigners but not others, or all religions except atheist and Muslim, and so on. The thing that gets lost is is the priority of anti-black racism, which is by far the most prevalent and strongest form in the US. So Louisiana's acceptance of Jindal is not terribly surprising.
Geographically, a lot of people feel fine about Native Americans, but usually not those who live near reservations or near urban-Indian neighborhoods. Or in Europe, there are people who hate Turks and Gypsies, or even Finns, but have no problem with black Americans.
Going a step further, people tend to assimilate all prejudice to its most virulent form, so that anyone who's anti-Semitic at all is a Nazi. Healthy societies can survive quite a lot of ethnic prejudice without collapsing into rce war and genocide.
114: "you" = "they". No local target.
Geez, ogged, it's not enough that the guy's consistently misjudged the politics, you have to pile on his spelling, too?
Some things are important.
it turns out i do not know its other meaning may be
coz the dictionary seems very complete, my bad
114 gets it right.
Racists will also make exceptions for individual cases of blacks/immigrants/Muslims/etc., if the person can find known racist/nativist sympathizers to vouch for him. By this principle, anybody who has the backing of the Republican party is generally an exception.
The failure of candidates like Lynn Swann and Ken Blackwell in state elections is generally not because Republican racist voters fail to vote for them, but because only mediocre, uninspiring and/or pure evil black politicians actually want to debase themselves by allying with today's Republican party.
109: If only internet porn sites had good interviews, today's younger generation would be as well informed as we were.
My mother used to blow my simple little mind by bringing home a Playboy now and again if it had an interview she was interested in (gee Mom, I have a rolled-up, waterlogged copy of that same issue hidden out back in the woodpile). I distinctly recall reading the short story Duel, which Spielberg made into a great TV movie, in one of hers, and from the tubes I now see that the interview in that issue was a panel on homosexuality ... hmmm, must try and think...
I actually don't think people should talk about racism as generically as you do.
To whom is that addressed?
No one: see 116. Editing error.
I agree with John; it would be really great to have a more nuanced way of talking about racism.
I'm sure there *is* such a thing. It's not something I'm terribly facile with, though.
It's not something I'm terribly facile with, though.
Nazis love to not know shit.
111: It's by Jon Wiener, maybe? And called "When Old Blue Eyes Was Red." I remember really liking it.
i was wondering when you'll get tired of talking about racism
it's like every other thread here is on the topic
then i thought, the issue is old and maybe painful for all, so people are trying to solve something
so you'd better just skip those threads if you don't like it
today i was called in though
126: If you know how to poison Jews, you know everything you need to know.
128: you do know about the gender threads, right?
B: facile about everything but talking about race.
Almost every thread here wanders into sex and gender, Read.
132: Maybe she's concerned that she will accidentally say something that some perceive as being racist, and then respond in a way that some perceive as being defensive.
124: And then someone will call her a bitch, and you know how she feels about that.
We have three kinds of threads here at Unfogged: race threads, gender threads, and thinly-veiled potshots-at-B threads.
I'm not going to name names, but someone has delusions of grandeur.
What I think is, this country needs a less nuanced conversation about race. When Americans start looking for nuance, they find guys like Charles Murray.
We were shown The House I Live In in high school, in the sixties. It must have retained for the people who showed it to us a sense of fellowship and uplift, and the other, about the Japanese, must have been so conventional as to be invisible.
136: The great thing about the current presidential race is that we can routinely cover all three in the same thread.
You shouldn't have used the word "facile", B.
PF, we should look for more-nuanced nuance.
Forget Jindal. If the Republicans want to nullify race as an issue in this race, they should pick a man with experience, a man who has been tested in the arena with Barack Obama: Alan-freakin'-Keyes, baby!
Alternatively, they could go with the guy who's actually beaten Obama: Bobby Rush for VP!
If the Republicans want to nullify race as an issue
As has been noted, this is the last thing the Republicans want to do.
Bobby Rush? If that polarizer is on the Republican ticket I will have to write in Ron Dellums for president in the general election as well.
It's by Jon Wiener, maybe? And called "When Old Blue Eyes Was Red."
You're right. I remember liking it, too. Now I see that it's been republished in a collection edited by Ethlie Ann Vare called Legend: Frank Sinatra and the American Dream.
Alan Keyes can definitely connect to the weird America. He would also raise the bar for political discourse . Really, the only issue is that you know his gay daughter will be campaigning against him.
Really, the only issue is that you know his gay daughter will be campaigning against him.
I'm so delighted that she went to Brown. With Antioch closed and Beaver no longer called "Beaver", really only Smith or Maharishi International (where I believe Destroyer now goes) would have been more karmically perfect.
I'm so delighted that she went to Brown.
We also pied Friedman, don't forget.
93: can't read the entire article, but - how long has it been since a major Western country was led by a man who believed that he personally was capable of casting out demons, and had actually done so in his spare time at university? I thought it was bad enough that David Cameron had been in the Bullingdon Club.
I thought it was bad enough that David Cameron had been in the Bullingdon Club.
Having known some people who were in that club [recently], I'm not sure which I'd prefer. B*llingdon Cl*b members being, in my limited experience, total bastards of the highest water [rather than just religiously-crazy].
